40 S&W accuracy [Archive] - Glock Talk

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trlcavscout
08-24-2011, 21:04
How much difference do dies make when reloading as far as accuracy? I am trying some new bullets and wanting more accuracy as I am gonna spend more time shooting 20-25yds this winter working on my shooting.

Current load:
Berrys 155gr RNHB I was useing 180's but the wife likes the 155's better and I dont want to load two seperate loads.
3.5 gr TG
WIN brass
WIN primers

Also looking for any improvements on my starting load. May up the charge to see if its better? I am getting ready to order my first bulk order of the 155's so if anyone has a better suggestion I am open to it.

Jayman
08-24-2011, 21:49
How much difference do dies make when reloading as far as accuracy? I am trying some new bullets and wanting more accuracy as I am gonna spend more time shooting 20-25yds this winter working on my shooting.

Current load:
Berrys 155gr RNHB I was useing 180's but the wife likes the 155's better and I dont want to load two seperate loads.
3.5 gr TG
WIN brass
WIN primers

Also looking for any improvements on my starting load. May up the charge to see if its better? I am getting ready to order my first bulk order of the 155's so if anyone has a better suggestion I am open to it.

I will tell you that plated bullets are not going to be as accurate as jacketed, and that the dies will be secondary in terms of the difference in terms of making an accurate load. Look to JHPs for the most accurate bullets. I've personally found Hornady XTPs to be the most accurate bullet I have shot in pistols. Secondly (and only by a small margin) are Montana Gold JHPs. I've also had excellent results with Gold Dots, but they're harder to acquire these days. If you don't believe me, get 20 of each type of bullet, and measure them in terms of diameter, length, and weight. My experience is that Berry's are a lot more varied than the others, and this translates very directly into group size.

trlcavscout
08-24-2011, 22:13
I will tell you that plated bullets are not going to be as accurate as jacketed, and that the dies will be secondary in terms of the difference in terms of making an accurate load. Look to JHPs for the most accurate bullets. I've personally found Hornady XTPs to be the most accurate bullet I have shot in pistols. Secondly (and only by a small margin) are Montana Gold JHPs. I've also had excellent results with Gold Dots, but they're harder to acquire these days. If you don't believe me, get 20 of each type of bullet, and measure them in terms of diameter, length, and weight. My experience is that Berry's are a lot more varied than the others, and this translates very directly into group size.

What about FMJ? Just thinking cost wise. Thanks!

What are the best dies?

Jayman
08-24-2011, 22:18
What about FMJ? Just thinking cost wise. Thanks!

What are the best dies?

FMJ is better than plated, but not as good as JHPs. The base of a bullet is more important in terms of accuracy than the nose, and JHPs are swaged such that the base is very uniform. (FMJs are not.) So jacketed FMJs are good, but not GREAT. Match bullets are all going to be JHP/OTM type bullets.

There are all sorts of good dies out there. Redding makes some of the best on the market. Their competition seating die is my favorite of all seating dies. For resizing, I honestly think most dies are similar in terms of quality, with Lee dies getting a nod for price vs. performance. I also recommend crimping in a separate step from seating. (Don't over-crimp, it'll adversely affect accuracy.)

trlcavscout
08-24-2011, 22:36
FMJ is better than plated, but not as good as JHPs. The base of a bullet is more important in terms of accuracy than the nose, and JHPs are swaged such that the base is very uniform. (FMJs are not.) So jacketed FMJs are good, but not GREAT. Match bullets are all going to be JHP/OTM type bullets.

There are all sorts of good dies out there. Redding makes some of the best on the market. Their competition seating die is my favorite of all seating dies. For resizing, I honestly think most dies are similar in terms of quality, with Lee dies getting a nod for price vs. performance. I also recommend crimping in a separate step from seating. (Don't over-crimp, it'll adversely affect accuracy.)


So in loading bulk ammo for competition FMJ would be the best trade off cost vs accuracy, most JHP is double the cost of plated.

engineermike
08-24-2011, 23:41
I use the Berry's 155 grain rnhb with HP-38 and find them very accurate.

DWARREN123
08-25-2011, 02:08
For accuracy out of a G22 and G20 I use SnS Casting 175gr LSWC's. Very accurate round. As for dies I believe most are about the same.
I use Longshot for the 40 (7.0gr) and IMR 800-X (7.5gr)and Longshot (7.5gr) for the 10mm.
These are the most accurate rounds I have fired in 40 S&W and 10mm.

Jayman
08-25-2011, 08:23
So in loading bulk ammo for competition FMJ would be the best trade off cost vs accuracy, most JHP is double the cost of plated.

Yes. I've had the best success with Montana Golds again, they are very consistent in terms of size and weight.

Jayman
08-25-2011, 08:24
I use the Berry's 155 grain rnhb with HP-38 and find them very accurate.

Have you compared them to any others? I shot (for groups) batches of Berry's, Precision Delta, and Montana Gold. The Berry's were consistently giving me 4" groups at 25y, the Precision Deltas came in to 3", and the MGs gave me approx 2". (From a rest.) Based on that, I switched to Montana Golds.

fredj338
08-25-2011, 08:36
So in loading bulk ammo for competition FMJ would be the best trade off cost vs accuracy, most JHP is double the cost of plated.

I have to agree w/ jayman but accuracy is relative. If the best you can shoot is 6" @ 25yds w/ factory ammo, then no ammo change is going to help you. Generally, plated bullets are more diff to get right than jacketed. Most reloaders crimp too much, this distorts accuracy. If you can't shoot better than 3" @ 25yds, look at your skill set & gun, not the bullet.
SO dies, not such a bid deal, loading technique is more important. Accuracy starts the gun & shoote first, next is the bullet. Then play w/ powders, some powders are just a better fit than others for some calibers & bbls. If your TG load isn't giving you the accuracy you want to can achieve, don;t be afraid to look at other powders.

Jayman
08-25-2011, 08:42
I have to agree w/ jayman but accuracy is relative. If the best you can shoot is 6" @ 25yds w/ factory ammo, then no ammo change is going to help you. Generally, plated bullets are more diff to get right than jacketed. Most reloaders crimp too much, this distorts accuracy. If you can't shoot better than 3" @ 25yds, look at your skill set & gun, not the bullet.
SO dies, not such a bid deal, loading technique is more important. Accuracy starts the gun & shoote first, next is the bullet. Then play w/ powders, some powders are just a better fit than others for some calibers & bbls. If your TG load isn't giving you the accuracy you want to can achieve, don;t be afraid to look at other powders.

Yeah, I probably should've mentioned that. :) I've found TG to be quite accurate in 40s&w under 180gr heads, although it is not the only powder that'll get you there. I shot this group standing at 25y:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5146/5593627760_e1b10faf09_b.jpg

I've shot almost a single hole group at 15y, same load. That was a MG 180gr JHP, 4.1gr of TG, Fed SPP, and Fed casings. That load is in the medium range, although it is at the low end of the listed load for TG. Some guys go much lower, but this was through my duty gun, and it's pretty heavily sprung, light minor loads don't run it well.

GIockGuy24
08-25-2011, 08:59
I remember in the early years of 40 S&W, people used to complain about the lack of accuracy. When 40 S&W first came out after being developed by Winchester a fast burning powder and 180 grain bullets were used. The accuracy wasn't very good and nobody could figure out why the accuracy wasn't better. Then Federal came out with the 155 grain Hydra-Shok load. The bullet was loaded too short to feed in many pistols but the accuracy was better than the earlier loads. Then Hornady figured out that with both 180 and 155 grain bullets, slower burning powders improved accuracy. This rule only applies to full power loads though. Good accuracy can be found with faster burning powders but the loads must be less than full power, as if loading for a lower pressure cartridge.

fredj338
08-25-2011, 12:53
I remember in the early years of 40 S&W, people used to complain about the lack of accuracy. When 40 S&W first came out after being developed by Winchester a fast burning powder and 180 grain bullets were used. The accuracy wasn't very good and nobody could figure out why the accuracy wasn't better. Then Federal came out with the 155 grain Hydra-Shok load. The bullet was loaded too short to feed in many pistols but the accuracy was better than the earlier loads. Then Hornady figured out that with both 180 and 155 grain bullets, slower burning powders improved accuracy. This rule only applies to full power loads though. Good accuracy can be found with faster burning powders but the loads must be less than full power, as if loading for a lower pressure cartridge.
I have to agree, at least IME w/ the 40 in several guns. If you are shooting near full power or full power laods, accuracy is far better using a medium burner like WSF. It is my fav 40 powder for midrange & up.

trlcavscout
08-25-2011, 20:27
I have my dies set up for no crimp now (per instructions). Should I play with backing the die off more? Like 1/4-1/2 turn?

I am just wondering about the bulge on one side of the case when loading, the 155gr loads have it but not as much as the 180's.

Here is a bad pic, its hard to get it on camera.
http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/trlcavscout/20110825202950.jpg

Jayman
08-25-2011, 20:30
I have my dies set up for no crimp now (per instructions). Should I play with backing the die off more? Like 1/4-1/2 turn?

Pull one of your rounds. If you don't see any impression in the bullet's plating, I wouldn't change anything.

HAMMERHEAD
08-25-2011, 20:31
The 180 Hornady HAP and Hodgdon Universal do very well for me at 25 yards in the .40 and 10mm. (no crimp)

trlcavscout
08-25-2011, 20:51
Pull one of your rounds. If you don't see any impression in the bullet's plating, I wouldn't change anything.

Ok, I pulled one of the 180grs that really showed a bulge and I dont see anything on the plating.

Jayman
08-25-2011, 21:20
That bulge in the case is fine, that is just the case sized down. It provides extra insurance vs. setback. Don't worry about that. All mine look like that and the accuracy I see is excellent for my applications.

trlcavscout
08-25-2011, 21:42
Ok thanks for the help. I will play with some different amounts of powder and a few different 155gr bullets and see what happens.

Edmo01
08-26-2011, 06:32
For range ammo I use 155 grain Rainier bullets over 5.0 grains of 231... It's a light, accurate load.

Edmo