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FLSlim
08-26-2011, 09:35
I've been extremely happy with a commercial 200 gr. LRN out of my 1911s. So much that I thought I'd give them a try in my Glock 30. That was not a good decision. Problems from the start with feeding, extraction, and so on. As has been discussed here a number of times, Glocks don't get along with SWC design bullets, and I started to think that perhaps the LRN design I've been using was too much like a SWC to function though my Glock. There is a definite "shoulder" where the bearing surface transitions to the round nose (ogive). At the shoulder, the bullet diameter steps down from .452 to .405 diameter. Do any of you lead loaders, have experience with such a lead bullet design in Glocks or thoughts on what might be going on? FWIW, the loads were fairly light 5.1 gr of 231 with an OAL of 1.244.

Obviously, the thing for me is just not to use this design of bullet in the Glock, but I am just curious about some expert thoughts on the possible issue here (and it was time for a post of some kind....). Yes, I am up on the lead vs. Glocks debate, so we don't need to go there... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif

dla
08-26-2011, 09:57
Who told you that Glocks don't get along with swc? I've fired a lot of lswc out of a G30 with nary a hitch. You've got some other problem.

tjpet
08-26-2011, 10:16
I've never seen a G30 run through a complete magazine of LSWCs without trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if the step on your RN is causing similar problems.

unclebob
08-26-2011, 10:46
I've never seen a G30 run through a complete magazine of LSWCs without trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if the step on your RN is causing similar problems.

:agree:

cole
08-26-2011, 10:51
As noted, many G30s will not run SWC and the sharper and/or more pronounced the edge on the SWC in question the worse it will be. Reloaders with limited experience, or who are just plain lucky enough to have one that works and who are magically surrounded by the few G30s that work, will argue different.

Do you have an image of the LRN in question? Any sharp edge transition could cause the ejecting round to jump the extractor (when it hangs on the lip of the next round) similar to SWC. Honestly, there is not too much to it IMO: If you are loading by factory data to 1.225-1.250 (depending on where the driving band is and the throat of your barrel) the LRN will work or it won't.

fredj338
08-26-2011, 13:04
Who told you that Glocks don't get along with swc? I've fired a lot of lswc out of a G30 with nary a hitch. You've got some other problem.

Many will run a plated swc, but not the sharp shouldered lswc. The G21 seems less of a problem than the 30, less of a problem than the 36.

yobohadi
08-29-2011, 15:49
Just out of curiosity is anyone casting or have experience with the Lee 45 200grain Round Flat nose bullet in their G30s or G36s? http://leeprecision.com/xcart/MOLD-DC-452-200-RF.html

I have a chance to pick up this mold for cheap, but if it will cause me FTF/FTE issues like a SWC then I will just pass on the deal.

dougader
08-29-2011, 16:52
FWIW, the loads were fairly light 5.1 gr of 231 with an OAL of 1.244.

IME, your load may be the culprit, not the step in the design of the 230 grain LRN bullet you have.

5.1 grains of 231 would never run the slide on my G30. I had to increase the charge to 5.4 grains before my 30 would shoot. After that, it ran 100%, and my 230's had the same step you're describing with your handloads.

Good luck.

barnettbill
08-29-2011, 19:14
Also, use your barrel as a case guage, do a search in this forum for "plunk test" and adjust your COL to that. I did it for LSWC and I was able to get a batch to shoot reasonably well. The only issue I have left is my crimp. I need a taper crimp die which I will be ordering shortly.

barnettbill
08-29-2011, 19:15
Oh and I shoot a G36

sdelam
08-29-2011, 19:47
Just out of curiosity is anyone casting or have experience with the Lee 45 200grain Round Flat nose bullet in their G30s or G36s? http://leeprecision.com/xcart/MOLD-DC-452-200-RF.html

I have a chance to pick up this mold for cheap, but if it will cause me FTF/FTE issues like a SWC then I will just pass on the deal.

I have tried these in a G36, but they have to be seated very deep to work. The best bullet I have found is the Lyman 452-374, a 225g RN that has no shoulder and seats similar to a FMJ round.

yobohadi
08-29-2011, 20:38
I have tried these in a G36, but they have to be seated very deep to work. The best bullet I have found is the Lyman 452-374, a 225g RN that has no shoulder and seats similar to a FMJ round.

So do you seat them past the crimp grove? Do you have an OAL? That would be most helpful. I will be shooting these from a G36 also.

michael e
08-29-2011, 20:44
I have issues with SWC in every gun that is double stacked. I went to RN and issue was gone.

dla
08-30-2011, 09:10
Many will run a plated swc, but not the sharp shouldered lswc. The G21 seems less of a problem than the 30, less of a problem than the 36.

Wow. You folks are very confused. There is nothing special about the G21 chamber that would cause it to have issues with Lead Semi-Wadcutter bullets. If anything, the G21 is will chamber and fire cartridges that won't feed in a 1911.

Perhaps my experience is unique. I've put a lot of lswc rounds through a G21 without issue. And the G21 fed and shoot LRN loads that were too long to feed reliably in my 1911s.

And I never get any lead build up in the G21. Perhaps the extra slide mass improves the feed reliability of the G21 over the G30?

ron59
08-30-2011, 11:32
Wow. You folks are very confused. There is nothing special about the G21 chamber that would cause it to have issues with Lead Semi-Wadcutter bullets. If anything, the G21 is will chamber and fire cartridges that won't feed in a 1911.

Perhaps my experience is unique. I've put a lot of lswc rounds through a G21 without issue. And the G21 fed and shoot LRN loads that were too long to feed reliably in my 1911s.

And I never get any lead build up in the G21. Perhaps the extra slide mass improves the feed reliability of the G21 over the G30?

It's not the chamber. it's the steep feed ramp.

It's fairly common knowledge that Glocks and LSWC's don't like each other. If this is the first time you've ever read or heard of this.... well, I'm not really sure what to say to that.

Pointy end goes up?

yobohadi
08-30-2011, 11:56
It's not the chamber. it's the steep feed ramp.

It's fairly common knowledge that Glocks and LWSC's don't like each other. If this is the first time you've ever read or heard of this.... well, I'm not really sure what to say to that.

Pointy end goes up?

You may be able to do some things to solve a failure to feed issue, sometimes polishing the feed ramp will do it, but don't take a grinder to it, and if you don't feel comfortable take it to an armorer or gunsmith.

I have not been able to solve my failure to eject issues. So far I have not had an issue in my 36 with feeding anything, where I run into trouble is the spent case ejecting and the rim getting caught on the ledge of any SWC bullet that is next in line in the mag. The ejector slips off the rim, the slide continues rearward and then tries to feed the next loaded round jamming the pistol. This requires me to lock back the slide, drop the mag, shake out the spent casing, insert the mag, close the slide which then chambers the new round. I never have a problem chambering that round, or the first round.

dla
08-30-2011, 19:12
It's not the chamber. it's the steep feed ramp.

It's fairly common knowledge that Glocks and LSWC's don't like each other. If this is the first time you've ever read or heard of this.... well, I'm not really sure what to say to that.

Pointy end goes up?


Bunk. The feed ramp is the same on all of the 45 cal Glocks. And there are billions of lswcs fired from all manner of Glocks. You do not know what you are talking about at all. Carry on.

WiskyT
08-30-2011, 19:22
You may be able to do some things to solve a failure to feed issue, sometimes polishing the feed ramp will do it, but don't take a grinder to it, and if you don't feel comfortable take it to an armorer or gunsmith.

I have not been able to solve my failure to eject issues. So far I have not had an issue in my 36 with feeding anything, where I run into trouble is the spent case ejecting and the rim getting caught on the ledge of any SWC bullet that is next in line in the mag. The ejector slips off the rim, the slide continues rearward and then tries to feed the next loaded round jamming the pistol. This requires me to lock back the slide, drop the mag, shake out the spent casing, insert the mag, close the slide which then chambers the new round. I never have a problem chambering that round, or the first round.

This. Some SWC's have barely any shoulder at all, or like Fred posted, a shoulder that is angled and thin. To me, a "SWC" has a real wadcutter shoulder on it, like an HG68 or a Kieth type. Glocks won't cycle those because the spent case gets hung up on the SWC shoulder of the fresh round in the magazine below it.

cole
08-30-2011, 23:49
Bunk. The feed ramp is the same on all of the 45 cal Glocks. And there are billions of lswcs fired from all manner of Glocks. You do not know what you are talking about at all. Carry on.

:upeyes: See the second sentences in the first paragraph in Post #5. Then, search the internet for "Glock SWC" or "Glock LSWC".

And, it's the ANGLE of the feedramp as the barrel tilts when cycling that differs. All Glocks are not equal. And, all SWC bullet profiles are not equal. The sharper (i.e. more abrubt) the leading edge on the bullet's driving band - i.e. the more it's a true SWC - the more issue.

FLSlim
08-31-2011, 10:44
This thread has warmed up. Thanks for the ideas. Per some earlier questions, the OAL is 1.244 and that is as short as I can go or I'm past the shoulder. And yes, I always chamber check (plunk test) when I load a new bullet design. Dougader, I wondered about the charge; maybe I'll load up 10 or so at 5.5 gr. and see what happens. Anyhow, thanks again for the comments.

dla
08-31-2011, 13:59
:upeyes: See the second sentences in the first paragraph in Post #5. Then, search the internet for "Glock SWC" or "Glock LSWC".

And, it's the ANGLE of the feedramp as the barrel tilts when cycling that differs. All Glocks are not equal. And, all SWC bullet profiles are not equal. The sharper (i.e. more abrubt) the leading edge on the bullet's driving band - i.e. the more it's a true SWC - the more issue.


Your sentence is bunk. What you have on these forums is a microcosm of noobs who make mistakes and then post. Reality is that Glocks eat lswc-profile bullets as well as any pistol - in my experience they do better than 1911's.

More than likely the OP made a boo-boo and then made a blanket untrue statement. Obviously there are enough "believers" in this "Glocks-don't-do-lswcs" myth that this thread continues. Meanwhile, I and 99.9999999% of Glock shooters will continue to shoot lswc-profile bullets.

WiskyT
08-31-2011, 14:45
Your sentence is bunk. What you have on these forums is a microcosm of noobs who make mistakes and then post. Reality is that Glocks eat lswc-profile bullets as well as any pistol - in my experience they do better than 1911's.

More than likely the OP made a boo-boo and then made a blanket untrue statement. Obviously there are enough "believers" in this "Glocks-don't-do-lswcs" myth that this thread continues. Meanwhile, I and 99.9999999% of Glock shooters will continue to shoot lswc-profile bullets.

It's not a myth. They don't work in any of my Glocks, and I've been doing this for a long time. Why don't you post a pic of your "SWC" that seem to work so well. Also, try some HG68's and make a video of it.

FLSlim
09-01-2011, 09:47
dla, I will admit that I make mistakes (my wife tells me about all of them!). But, I'm not new to this game, I've been shooting for more than 40 yrs and reloading for more than 30. I know I still have a bunch to learn (and this site is a good place for that), but in this instance, a reloading "boo-boo" isn't real likely. Now, moving on to more important things.....

freakshow10mm
09-01-2011, 10:09
Your sentence is bunk. What you have on these forums is a microcosm of noobs who make mistakes and then post. Reality is that Glocks eat lswc-profile bullets as well as any pistol - in my experience they do better than 1911's.

More than likely the OP made a boo-boo and then made a blanket untrue statement. Obviously there are enough "believers" in this "Glocks-don't-do-lswcs" myth that this thread continues.
You have a hard time accepting facts that differ from your opinion.

Meanwhile, I and 99.9999999% of Glock shooters will continue to shoot lswc-profile bullets.
This statement here illustrates you have no idea what you are talking about in any capacity. I guarantee you 99.9999999% of Glock shooters are NOT shooting LSWC bullets. Period.

cole
09-01-2011, 10:14
dla, I will admit that I make mistakes (my wife tells me about all of them!). But, I'm not new to this game, I've been shooting for more than 40 yrs and reloading for more than 30. I know I still have a bunch to learn (and this site is a good place for that), but in this instance, a reloading "boo-boo" isn't real likely. Now, moving on to more important things.....

It's clearly the bullet profile not you or your gun. You lost the G30 "runs with SWC or SWC-like bullet profiles" lotto like most do. You can look for a more rounded shoulder bullet profile or keep buying G30s until you find the rare one that runs this bullet profile. Or, maybe dla will sell/trade you his or one of the "99.9999999%" of all his buddies' that perfectly run SWC and SWC-like profiles? Good luck.

Boxerglocker
09-01-2011, 12:30
Obviously there are enough "believers" in this "Glocks-don't-do-lswcs" myth that this thread continues. Meanwhile, I and 99.9999999% of Glock shooters will continue to shoot lswc-profile bullets.

No one said that .45 Glocks wouldn't feed SWC period... they said feed them reliably. You obviously have a .45 Glock that is an anomaly that it feed 99.99% :upeyes:

You second statement on continuing to shoot LSWC with the other 99.9999 % of Glock shooters...... my only comment is you’re in a very small army. :whistling:

WiskyT
09-01-2011, 13:31
It's clearly the bullet profile not you or your gun. You lost the G30 "runs with SWC or SWC-like bullet profiles" lotto like most do. You can look for a more rounded shoulder bullet profile or keep buying G30s until you find the rare one that runs this bullet profile. Or, maybe dla will sell/trade you his or one of the "99.9999999%" of all his buddies' that perfectly run SWC and SWC-like profiles? Good luck.

Bunk! You're stupid and have never reloaded before! You also have bad breath unlike the other 99.9999% of us who do all manner of things that people like you find impossible!

dla
09-01-2011, 16:48
I guarantee you 99.9999999% of Glock shooters are NOT shooting LSWC bullets. Period.

Prove it.

dla
09-01-2011, 16:53
No one said that .45 Glocks wouldn't feed SWC period... they said feed them reliably. You obviously have a .45 Glock that is an anomaly that it feed 99.99% :upeyes:

You second statement on continuing to shoot LSWC with the other 99.9999 % of Glock shooters...... my only comment is you’re in a very small army. :whistling:

Your post is classic. You actually think this forum represents glock shooters - hardly! What this thread represents are those folks who either (a) can't reload lswcs correctly and/or (b) got a bad glock.

Boxerglocker
09-01-2011, 18:15
Your post is classic. You actually think this forum represents glock shooters - hardly! What this thread represents are those folks who either (a) can't reload lswcs correctly and/or (b) got a bad glock.

I tell you what... why don't you prove the majority to be wrong. Tell us other than sizing, priming, powder seating and crimping what makes it that you can correctly load LSWC and others can't? Again, no one said that it was absolute impossibility it is reliability that is in question using that bullet profile in a Glock. The issue depends on the actual LSWC profile used, why don't you post a picture of you proven bullet profile and OAL.

BTW, I never stated that this particular forum represents every Glock shooter in the free world. As you were invited to do so earlier a simple Google search will bring up hundreds of hits from many forums echoing the sentiments of many here regarding the subject.

We all know it's easier for some to just state how everyone is jacked up, and they are primo cause they have supposedly succeeded where others have failed. Why don't you actually give a bit of positive feedback regarding your experiences on the topic, rather that tell everyone else how effed up they are for a change?

oldsoldier
09-01-2011, 18:28
I never tried the 200g LRN in my G30 but shot a few thousand 230g LRN in mine without much of a problem. I did have to seat them shorter than I do for my 1911s at 1.240. The bullet profile was the usual Magma Engineering profile that many of the commercial casters use.

Boxerglocker
09-01-2011, 18:36
I never tried the 200g LRN in my G30 but shot a few thousand 230g LRN in mine without much of a problem. I did have to seat them shorter than I do for my 1911s at 1.240. The bullet profile was the usual Magma Engineering profile that many of the commercial casters use.

We are taking LSWC profile not LRN.

labdwakin
09-01-2011, 19:12
Your post is classic. You actually think this forum represents glock shooters - hardly! What this thread represents are those folks who either (a) can't reload lswcs correctly and/or (b) got a bad glock.


Nice, another person that knows all there is to know. I'm sorry we're all just inferior peons with mush for brains. I'd also like to apologize for all of us here that are so lazy with our reloading that we've successfully sent tens of thousands of rounds downrange accurately. I hereby bow to your superior intellect and attention to detail. I would also like to apologize for the 50% of 45 acp Glock owners that I've known that had failure to feed issues with a SWC profile bullet. You obviously were the original designer of the 45 ACP SWC round and know all there is to know about it and how to make it properly. You sir, are the KING of Glock SWC shooting!!! :whistling:

barnettbill
09-01-2011, 19:20
:popcorn:
This is getting entertaining

Tombo 65
09-01-2011, 19:27
Here are three bullet designs that might work for you. The first is a Missouri Bullet product. It's a 225gr Flathead, or that's what they call it. It's really just a fairly blunt truncated cone bullet, but it works great in both my Glock 37 and my 38. I know you are using the G30, but I think these would work for you. They feel very well in the stubby 45gap cartridge so you'd think they would work well in the 30.


http://www.missouribullet.com/cw3/assets/product_full/45_flathead.jpg


This next bullet is a 215gr lswc with a pretty broad meplat. I have ordered some of these (they are a Montana Bullet product) and hope to give them a try in the 45GAP cartridge for the 37 and 38. I love really broad meplat swc bullets. It's a carry-over from my 45colt days.
http://montanabulletworks.com/images/p45acp_215_sae_swcbb_105x105.jpg

Here is the last one. It's a Magnus Bullet Company product that looks like it will feed well. The shoulder is fairly sloped, and they claim it feeds well. I'm going to give the Montana Bullet product a try first, and if they don't work well in the 45GAP Glocks, I'll use them for my 45acp revolver and move on to the Magnus shown below. I like the Missouri Bullet design, at the top, but it's a bit to rounded at the transition from meplat to ogive to suit my purposes for more than target practice.
http://magnusbullet.powweb.com/store/media/image807.jpg

cole
09-02-2011, 10:40
'...The shoulder is fairly sloped...

Ding, ding, ding... we have a winner. It's the slope to and from the shoulder (i.e. the profile of the bullet) that matters. The traditional LSWC has no slope to/from the shoulder (it's a straight edge with sharp angles). And, this same concept can apply to the OP's case if that LRN has a sharp shoulder. I don't know how many ways we can keep saying this for it to sink in with the "full cup" clan.

I'll also venture bullet hardness could play a part in conjuction with the bullet profile (and OAL?). Even orientation of the individual bullet in the chamber (they are not all perfectly uniform). If the bullet is softer lead the extracting case could basically be driven through the shoulder creating its own ramp. Or, if there is a slight angle/indent aready on a particular LSWC shoulder that may aide in clearing the shoulder as well. I know the LSWC failures I've had often show a groove in the bullet just before the shoulder and always an indent in the shoulder itself that stops short of the case neck. Checking LSWC rounds that chambered the groover runs through the shoulder to the case neck. Plus, there is extractor tension and case rim integrity (both relate to how well the case could stay caught my the extractor with enough force to drive through the LSWC shoulder) that could play a part as well. This is all more observational supposition.

Prior discussion HERE (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1248824).

Likely Success (note curve approaching shoulder and rounded shoulder):
http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/reloading/45acp/185gr_swc_w231.jpg

Maybe Success (note somewhat rounder shoulder):
http://www.members.cox.net/scollins15/Pictures/45swcOAL.jpg

Likely Failure (classis LSWC):
http://royalammunition.com/ammu_45/B-200-grains_.45%20AUTOMATIC.jpg

Possible Issue? (appears to have more shoulder than many LRN I've seen/used):
http://royalammunition.com/ammu_45/B-230-grains_.45%20AUTOMATIC-03.jpg

DoctaGlockta
09-04-2011, 18:04
'Possible Issue? (appears to have more shoulder than many LRN I've seen/used):'
http://royalammunition.com/ammu_45/B-230-grains_.45%20AUTOMATIC-03.jpg

Mine look like this and no issues.