9mm: what is the real story? dillon dies or other? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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lowepg
08-26-2011, 22:54
Ok- I'm paralyzed trying to figure out what dies I need to get for my Dillon 550 in order to load 9mm.

On one hand- I'm hearing dillon press? Use dillon dies for best results.

On the other hand- I'm hearing about this potential case bulge issue that the dillon dies can't correct.


Arg.

I'm using a 3rd gen glock 34 and my intention is to load light to medium target loads for idpa (125g flu bullets).


So what is the right die set? I'm ok with paying a bit more for dillon dies- but not if they are in fact inferior for glocked 9mm brass?

Boxerglocker
08-26-2011, 23:50
Dillon Dies will work just fine... I have run thousands through Glock fired brass no issues at all.

fredj338
08-27-2011, 08:47
Well you shouldn;t be getting Glocked brass firing midrange loads in 9mm. I do use RCBS dies on my 550, but it is what I had back when I bought. I use Dillon dies on my 40s, & they do fine w/ brass that actually does guppy in a GLock. Any dies will work on the 550 though. DIllon are great, but there is really no huge advantage using them except in 357sig, the only carbide sizer.

Colorado4Wheel
08-27-2011, 09:05
I have had my best luck with Lee dies. I have had issues with Hornady seating die in 9mm. My lee are not fancy but every set I buy works. I do prefer the Dillon Crimp die for Lead bullets. But it's not a big deal. People know that if I could find something wrong with something I will. But my Lee dies never disappoint.

unclebob
08-27-2011, 09:22
I use both Lee and Dillon sizing dies. I like the Redding competition bullet seating die. If you plan on shooting lead I would get the Dillon just because they are easier to clean without disturbing the adjustments. I have had one Dillon die that the carbide ring came out. Called Dillon and they sent me a new sizer die. I have one Lee sizer die that is a piece of crap. Will not size the die far enough to prevent setback. Unless I’m only going to be loading just for a couple of rounds a year I do not buy my dies in sets I mix and match. Some I have 3 different die makes on one tool head.
In most cases the Glock bulge is blown way out of proportion by people that do not like Glocks.

El_Ron1
08-27-2011, 09:28
I've loaded a brazillion 9s on my Dillon with a carbide RCBS set.

lowepg
08-27-2011, 09:39
Ok- so I get that if I already had dies - any would work- but if I need to BUY 9mm dies (no lead bullets, btw, all fmj), what's the best bet?

unclebob
08-27-2011, 09:46
Ok- so I get that if I already had dies - any would work- but if I need to BUY 9mm dies (no lead bullets, btw, all fmj), what's the best bet?

How much you want to spend? Redding competition bullet seating die if you like to play with different COL or use different bullets. I would go with either Lee or Dillon.

lowepg
08-27-2011, 10:59
How much you want to spend? Redding competition bullet seating die if you like to play with different COL or use different bullets. I would go with either Lee or Dillon.

I want to spend enough so that I dont ever have to buy another set later after learning I "cheaped-out" :-)

Im going to be primarily cranking out practice loads for IDPA and Zombie matches.... not completely set on the recipe yet, but leaning towards 125g fmj's from precision delta.

unclebob
08-27-2011, 14:05
I want to spend enough so that I dont ever have to buy another set later after learning I "cheaped-out" :-)

Im going to be primarily cranking out practice loads for IDPA and Zombie matches.... not completely set on the recipe yet, but leaning towards 125g fmj's from precision delta.

Lee, Dillon, Redding.Unless you get a bad die and that can happen with any company. They all work. Make sure you take them apart and clean the dies before you use them. If you want a no question ask warranty then get the Dillon. Redding I do not know. Never had one break, Lee you have to send it back.

DannyR
08-27-2011, 14:12
I prefer Dillon dies but use a Lee factory crimp die in the 4th stage.

Bogey
08-27-2011, 14:20
I want to spend enough so that I dont ever have to buy another set later after learning I "cheaped-out" :-)

Im going to be primarily cranking out practice loads for IDPA and Zombie matches.... not completely set on the recipe yet, but leaning towards 125g fmj's from precision delta.

Dillon dies are all I use for 9mm FMJ.

Same thing for .45. Same for lead .38.

All I load for is IDPA comps.

I have NEVER had any issue with the dies on my 550.

fredj338
08-27-2011, 14:33
I prefer Dillon dies but use a Lee factory crimp die in the 4th stage.

Better yet, just buy another seating/crimp die of any brand unstead of the dreaded LFCD. A marketing concept for Lee's poor QC of their dies IMO.
Reallly, all the manuf dies are fine, cabide only please. You'll get the poorest QC form Lee, sorry, just the facts. Everyone else throws a bad die now & then, but tough to go wrong w/ Redding, RCBS, Dillon or Hornady.

Colorado4Wheel
08-27-2011, 16:47
I want to spend enough so that I dont ever have to buy another set later after learning I "cheaped-out" :-)


They either work or don't. I have spent more then Lee but never felt it was better. I have even used the Redding Comp Seater and for my lead bullets the Lee is MUCH better. The only dies I would not buy is RCBS. The ones I have seen have a HUGE funnel that makes sizing the base next to impossible in my experiance. Never used Lyman either (other then the M die). M Die works good. I prefer Lee.

ron59
08-27-2011, 20:18
I bought the Dillon dies when I got my 550B from Brian Enos' site. Probably ran 3000-4000 through with no problem.

It now wears a Lee sizing die and a Redding Competition Seating die (can change OAL with twist of a dial, can't do that with most others). You'll be fine with the Dillon's, you may find you want to swap some out later. The complete set of Redding Competition dies are expensive. Don't know that they're THAT much better, but you could go that way at the beginning if you want.

AZson
08-27-2011, 20:22
I prefer Dillon dies but use a Lee factory crimp die in the 4th stage.

I use nothing but Lee dies but I agree on the LFC die.

lowepg
08-27-2011, 20:56
Ive seen no mention of the EGW dies.... so, all hype?

http://www.egwguns.com/undersized-reloading-dies/undersize-reloading-dies/

Colorado4Wheel
08-27-2011, 21:10
It's just a Lee die that is slightly undersized. Avoid curing problems that don't exist. A regular Lee die will be better unless you need it (and you don't).

unclebob
08-27-2011, 21:24
I bought one and made the mistake of not testing the rounds and used them in a match. I had a bunch of key holes. The U die was the only thing that was changed. It cost me two first place wins. Or winning two Glocks.

VN350X10
08-27-2011, 22:33
This is one of the few times I'll disagree with fredj338.....
Camdex makes fully automated loading machines for commercial applications, PD's or other extreme high volume users. A Camdex running full tilt will spit out around 4K/hr of 9mm, .45 ACP or .40 S&W, IF you can keep it fed.
They cost upwards of $20K & they come factory set up with LEE dies installed.
At this level of price, if the Dillons, RCBS, Hornady or Redding dies were better, they'd be in there; Cost of a die set vs. reliable operation is a moot point here.
Nothing wrong with LEE dies. Except for my SDB, all of my Dillon presses use at least 1 LEE die in the setup.
Don't be afraid to experiment with dies to find your best setup. My .44 Mag "set" uses Lyman, Dillon, RCBS & LEE, in that order, in my 550.

Load Safe !

uncle albert

freakshow10mm
08-27-2011, 22:55
This is one of the few times I'll disagree with fredj338.....
Camdex makes fully automated loading machines for commercial applications, PD's or other extreme high volume users. A Camdex running full tilt will spit out around 4K/hr of 9mm, .45 ACP or .40 S&W, IF you can keep it fed.
They cost upwards of $20K & they come factory set up with LEE dies installed.
At this level of price, if the Dillons, RCBS, Hornady or Redding dies were better, they'd be in there; Cost of a die set vs. reliable operation is a moot point here.
Reason they use Lee dies in the Camdex is you're buying the machine, not the dies. Camdex couldn't give a crap less what dies you want in the machine. They use Lee because they are the cheapest. I know of several dozen small 06s running Camdex and not a single one of them ever used the Lee dies their presses came with. They all threw them out and are using something much better.

gary newport
08-27-2011, 23:20
I use Dillon dies on my Dillon press for reloading 9mm, .45 GAP and .45 ACP. The only non-Dillon die that I would consider is the Redding Competition Seating Die. (I have on in .45 that I used on my old Lyman T-Mag press, but I haven't tried it on the Dillon.)

Whenever I think of Lee reloading equipment (which isn't often), I instinctively look around for toilet paper! :supergrin:

Colorado4Wheel
08-28-2011, 07:45
Reason they use Lee dies in the Camdex is you're buying the machine, not the dies. Camdex couldn't give a crap less what dies you want in the machine. They use Lee because they are the cheapest. I know of several dozen small 06s running Camdex and not a single one of them ever used the Lee dies their presses came with. They all threw them out and are using something much better.

Never used them but they know they are junk. Nice.

Selling the machine with junk makes zero sense. Why even supply it with the dies. Why supply it with dies that are junk (for a $30 difference between lee and dillon for example). What is another makers die going to do that Lee isn't going to do?

I don't think I would use Lee dies on a Camdex. Not because they don't work, but because they have hand turnable adjusters. I would want my dies locked down tight if I am making 4k rounds in a hour.

Still waiting to hear what the "other dies" do better then Lee. It's pretty much common knowledge that Lee sizes lower and better then the other dies. In my experience mine actually seat the bullet straighter then the others as well. People love to hate Lee so I know people have complained about them. But in my experience it's not the dies fault but the user who just is in the mood to hate Lee. All of mine have FAR exceeded the expectations.

El_Ron1
08-28-2011, 11:34
Still waiting to hear what the "other dies" do better then Lee. The RCBS dies smell better. And come in a cooler box. And put you in a fraternity with a better cut of people. I bet Dick Cheney uses RCBS dies. And that's good enough for me. :patriot:

http://i55.tinypic.com/s6klyh.jpg

VN350X10
08-28-2011, 12:31
Funny, the couple of gents that I personally know that have Camdex machines seem to have no problems with the Lee dies. They just keep on working.
There is a BIG difference in "cheap" & good value. I really don't care for any other reloading item made by Lee, but their dies are probably more accurate than a lot of other "top name" die sets. And I think they're the only ones that make an accuracy guarentee. The only dies I use in loading ammo for my varmint rifles, & a prarie dog is a rather small target out past 500 yds !

fredj338
08-28-2011, 12:47
This is one of the few times I'll disagree with fredj338.....
Nothing wrong with LEE dies. Except for my SDB, all of my Dillon presses use at least 1 LEE die in the setup.
Don't be afraid to experiment with dies to find your best setup. My .44 Mag "set" uses Lyman, Dillon, RCBS & LEE, in that order, in my 550.

Load Safe !

uncle albert
Well, you can believe that but Lee's QC is so spotty, you are more liekly to get a bad die than a good die IMO. Yes I use some Lee dies, but I think just about everyone else makes a better product, I have seen too many dies returned to Lee to appreciate their stuff.
But in my experience it's not the dies fault but the user who just is in the mood to hate Lee. All of mine have FAR exceeded the expectations.
Oure BS statemnt Steve. How manydiff die sets have you onwed? I have never returned any other manuf dies, but have returned a Lee sizer. Do other manuf have duds, sure, all do, but it seems Lee's QC is just not up to speed. How could it be for what they charge? Same for bullet molds, you either get a good one or crap, not much inbetween.

lowepg
08-28-2011, 14:45
lol.... so much for a nice clean answer to the original question... :-)

lowepg
08-28-2011, 14:49
Don't be afraid to experiment with dies to find your best setup.

uncle albert

See, this is exactly what I DONT want to have to do- buy a bunch of die sets only to later find the best choice....

I want to experiment with the reloads, not the tools as well!...

perhaps there is not empirical answer to "the best 9mm dies"...

GioaJack
08-28-2011, 15:00
Huh, I'm still using Lyman and Herters dies that are almost 50 years old... I did upgrade to carbide sizing dies when they invented them though.

Who says I don't know how to keep up with the times. :fist:


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
08-28-2011, 16:06
Oure BS statemnt Steve. How manydiff die sets have you onwed? I have never returned any other manuf dies, but have returned a Lee sizer. Do other manuf have duds, sure, all do, but it seems Lee's QC is just not up to speed. How could it be for what they charge? Same for bullet molds, you either get a good one or crap, not much inbetween.

Never had a bad set. .380, 9mm, 10mm. Friends who I have helped out as well. Never had one that didn't work as it should.

Uncle Don
08-28-2011, 16:56
Fifteen years ago or so, I returned a set of Lee 22 Hornet dies because the accuracy out of the rifle was beyond horrible. I bought a set of Redding because that was supposed to be "the best". Turned out, it was just a crappy rifle as the results were the same - and the dies produced ammo that actually had more runout than the ones I had from Lee. I learned just one of my many lessons that day in that I buy what works for me, not what other people tell me is "best".

unclebob
08-28-2011, 16:56
Never had a bad set. .380, 9mm, 10mm. Friends who I have helped out as well. Never had one that didn't work as it should.

Sounds like Fred had one and I had one. It’s just a theory of mine but I think that maybe the people that have had problems with setback and went with U dies were using Lee dies. Yes Lee sizer dies size further down than say Dillon because Dillon dies have a taper opening in helping guiding the case in to the die. Yes Lee works just as will. I use many of Lee dies. Just like Jack I also have many of Herter’s dies somewhere in the cabinet. I could be wrong but I think that Lee dies and large variances in their quality control more so than other companies.

Colorado4Wheel
08-28-2011, 16:59
I think the OP should buy the Redding with the fancy Carbide. He will then be convinced he has the best. That is what he is after. The feeling he has the best. That really is the only way to get that nice feeling I think.

GioaJack
08-28-2011, 17:02
I think the OP should buy the Redding with the fancy Carbide. He will then be convinced he has the best. That is what he is after. The feeling he has the best. That really is the only way to get that nice feeling I think.


I'm the best and ladies don't get that feeling when they're with me. Just more evidence that your theory is flawed.


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
08-28-2011, 17:28
But do you feel like your the best. That is all that matters. The rest is for the other person to worry about.

GioaJack
08-28-2011, 17:37
But do you feel like your the best. That is all that matters. The rest is for the other person to worry about.

Don't pull that psycho-babble on me... I'm a slug, always have been and always will be.

My one saving grace is that I'm not a flatland slug.


Jack

lowepg
08-28-2011, 18:59
.... That is what he is after. The feeling he has the best.

lol...

Thats not what I was after...

I was hoping there would be a clear choice in which 9mm dies to use in my application, its clear from the feedback - there is not. Or at least if there is- its not substantial enough to overcome peoples brand preference.

Colorado4Wheel
08-28-2011, 19:01
LoL. Good stuff.

lowepg
08-28-2011, 19:13
LoL. Good stuff.

:tongueout:

Colorado4Wheel
08-28-2011, 19:34
I have never, ever heard anyone complain about Redding Dies. Does that help? As soon as Freakshow wakes up and sees this thread he will agree with me 100%. Well, he may find some miniscule things to disagree about but will confirm that Redding makes the nicest dies.

lowepg
08-28-2011, 20:06
I have never, ever heard anyone complain about Redding Dies. Does that help? As soon as Freakshow wakes up and sees this thread he will agree with me 100%. Well, he may find some miniscule things to disagree about but will confirm that Redding makes the nicest dies.

Thanks.

I see they are more expensive, but in the grand scheme of things, there's not many times in life you can go from the cheapest to the absolute best for $100....

So, perhaps Détente:
dillon sizing die
redding seating die
lee fcd

Thoughts?

unclebob
08-28-2011, 20:19
My one saving grace is that I'm not a flatland slug.


Jack

Only because you slithered up the mountain from Florida.:tongueout:

Colorado4Wheel
08-28-2011, 20:22
Thanks.

I see they are more expensive, but in the grand scheme of things, there's not many times in life you can go from the cheapest to the absolute best for $100....

So, perhaps Détente:
dillon sizing die
redding seating die
lee fcd

Thoughts?

I think that is what I would do.

VN350X10
08-28-2011, 20:28
Jack is so old.....never mind.

What I really meant to say, is that back when Jack started reloading (myself also), a set of pistol dies was right around 20-25 bucks. Didn't matter if they were Lyman, RCBS or Herters. Then, if you added a seperate CARBIDE sizer, it would cost about 38-45 bucks, on top of what you had spent on the original die set, that came with a steel sizer.
UNLESS you were a 9mm shooter, a 9mm carbide sizer was almost $100.00 back then !

And quite honestly, ANY die set produced today, from any of the major mfgr's. will produce better quality ammo than the dies made 40 years ago !

Things like modern CNC machining are a real blessing to the shooting sports in general.


uncle albert

blownhemi
08-28-2011, 20:39
Ignoring the arguments.

I use a Lee sizing die because I found my loads had a signifigant bulge at the bottom with the Dillon sizing die and I was getting occassional malfunctions in competition using the full Dillon set. With the Lee sizing die I couldn't be happier.

gary newport
08-28-2011, 21:28
Ignoring the arguments.

I use a Lee sizing die because I found my loads had a signifigant bulge at the bottom with the Dillon sizing die and I was getting occassional malfunctions in competition using the full Dillon set. With the Lee sizing die I couldn't be happier.

I haven't observed that with my .45 GAP. .45 ACP or 9mm reloads with my Dillon dies. :dunno:

freakshow10mm
08-28-2011, 22:28
Never used them but they know they are junk. Nice.
They haven't used them in the machines, but other hand operated presses.

What is another makers die going to do that Lee isn't going to do?
Last longer, hold tolerance better, and get you chicks.

Never had a bad set. .380, 9mm, 10mm. Friends who I have helped out as well. Never had one that didn't work as it should.
I've had a few bad dies, dies that wore out when they were not close to their useful life, dies out of spec. All were Lee. None were Redding.

I have never, ever heard anyone complain about Redding Dies. Does that help? As soon as Freakshow wakes up and sees this thread he will agree with me 100%. Well, he may find some miniscule things to disagree about but will confirm that Redding makes the nicest dies.
Yup, I agree. All ammunition coming off my press is loaded with Redding dies. Pro Series with pistol and revolver cartridges, and bushing sizer/competition seater with rifle cartridges. I load for 14 cartridges. The only exception to the Redding die exclusivity is a Dillon carbide sizer for the 357 SIG.

With that said, I do have a Lee universal decapping die simply because they are cheap and the task is not critical.

I've used Lee, RCBS, Redding, Dillon, Forster, Hornady, Lyman, and CH4D dies. I prefer Redding over all others. I do think Dillon has the best system for cleaning.

blownhemi
08-28-2011, 22:58
I haven't observed that with my .45 GAP. .45 ACP or 9mm reloads with my Dillon dies. :dunno:

Which part? Bulging or malfuctions?

Dillon dies don't resize all the way to the bottom so you're going to get bulging of some sort.

I can post photographic evidence if you like.

gary newport
08-28-2011, 23:06
Which part? Bulging or malfuctions?

Dillon dies don't resize all the way to the bottom so you're going to get bulging of some sort.

I can post photographic evidence if you like.

All parts! Neither issue has occurred with my 9mm, ,45 GAP or .,45 ACP reloads on my Dillon.

fredj338
08-28-2011, 23:50
lol...

Thats not what I was after...

I was hoping there would be a clear choice in which 9mm dies to use in my application, its clear from the feedback - there is not. Or at least if there is- its not substantial enough to overcome peoples brand preference.
There is rarely a clear anything when it comes to opinions & experiences. Ford, Chevy, Lee, Dillon, chocolate or vanilla.:dunno: BTW, paying more for something doesn't make it better just like paying less for something doesn't make it a bargain. Most people over the age of 20 figure this crap out prettty quick, but some never do.
I wouldn't bash Lee gear unless I had/haved owned it. On the contrary I have owned enough to know it's marginal quality & marginal always produces more clunkers than better quality. Of course, one needs to have had enough exp to determine the diff. Jack knows; like sex, if you only had it with one woman, then you would have no idea if it was great or terrible.

fredj338
08-28-2011, 23:56
I haven't observed that with my .45 GAP. .45 ACP or 9mm reloads with my Dillon dies. :dunno:

I agree Gary. I have Dillon dies in 357sig, 40 & 10mm, my brass sizes fine for use in my guns at least.:dunno:

blownhemi
08-29-2011, 00:16
For the doubters, I went out in the shed and selected two pieces of brass. Because I've broken the decapper in my Lee die (bloody military brass) I run all my brass through a spare tool head with my spare Dillon 9mm sizing die. So I grabbed one from the Dillon pile and then grabbed one out of XL650.

As you can see the case sized through the Dillon die has a noticable bulge on the lower half while the Lee sized case shows evidence of sizing die working further down the length of the case.

gary newport
08-29-2011, 00:19
Confession time! Some years ago, I decided that I would "upgrade" from my ancient Pacific single-stage press, so I bought some Lee "progessive" press with an "automatic" case feeder. My first clue that this was NOT an upgrade came with the continuous failure of cases to feed as advertised. My second clue came when I had numerous squibs as a result of the Lee POS powder drop system. I finally realized that this Lee "system" was NOT a bargain and feces-canned it.

Even after this real-world experience with Lee "engineering," I remained gullible. Folks said that the Lee FCD was the neatest thing since sliced bread, so I bought one. In loading old .45 ACP cases on my Lyman press, I found that some would not pass a chamber check, so I then ran them through the fabled FCD. Most would still not pass a chamber check!

Yeah, tell me about how great Lee products are! Been there, done that, got burned. :steamed:

gary newport
08-29-2011, 00:55
I forgot to mention that, when I decided to begin reloading 9mm, I bought a set of lee dies and installed them in my old Lyman T-Mag press--a cheap experiment, I thought. It was certainly an experiment, with minimal monetary investment. It was also a failure. The cheapass Lee depriming die quickly failed.

I learned from this and bought a set of Dillon dies--which I installed in a Dillon press. :cool:

Colorado4Wheel
08-29-2011, 03:04
It was also a failure. The cheapass Lee depriming die quickly failed.

How did it fail? I assume it was the sizing die?

Uncle Don
08-29-2011, 05:12
I've been lucky to have the opposite experience with my Lee 357 dies. Even knowing you are supposed to lube, I don't. The amount of actual case sizing due to the taper is minimal and right at the top of the stroke where you get the most leverage anyway. Pushing the shoulder back is not something that requires lube anyway.

I used to use one-shot, but don't bother anymore. I also used a 40 carbide die first, but got lazy and decided to try it without. Admit it's not as smooth but the result is the same. I've yet to have a case get anywhere near stuck. Yes, it gets a little tight near the top every now and then, but not near enough to worry about it getting stuck. So far, I'm between 2 and 3 thousand loaded.

blownhemi
08-29-2011, 06:08
I've been lucky to have the opposite experience with my Lee 357 dies. Even knowing you are supposed to lube, I don't. The amount of actual case sizing due to the taper is minimal and right at the top of the stroke where you get the most leverage anyway. Pushing the shoulder back is not something that requires lube anyway.

I used to use one-shot, but don't bother anymore. I also used a 40 carbide die first, but got lazy and decided to try it without. Admit it's not as smooth but the result is the same. I've yet to have a case get anywhere near stuck. Yes, it gets a little tight near the top every now and then, but not near enough to worry about it getting stuck. So far, I'm between 2 and 3 thousand loaded.

I use one shot when I resize my 40S&W to 357SIG but yeah other than that I don't bother. I'll have to check what dies I'm using for the 357SIG, can't remember.

cardguy
08-29-2011, 06:19
I use nothing but Lee dies but I agree on the LFC die.

The fc dies saved me from some fully sized cases being scrapped.

cardguy
08-29-2011, 06:21
I prefer Dillon dies but use a Lee factory crimp die in the 4th stage.

Me too.

gary newport
08-29-2011, 10:59
How did it fail? I assume it was the sizing die?

Depriming pin in the resizing die wouldn't stay locked in place.

Colorado4Wheel
08-29-2011, 12:24
You have to crank on it with a box end wrench while it's in the toolhead.