Miami police forced to shoot mental subject with toy gun [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kadetklapp
09-01-2011, 10:18
I don't know who writes and approves the articles on "The Blaze" which is one of Glenn Beck's many spin-off websites, but the increasingly anti-law enforcement spin is making me have issues supporting Beck.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/miami-police-shoot-mentally-handicapped-man-carrying-toy-gun/

SCSU74
09-01-2011, 12:32
I think the comments by some of the people are more interesting than the story, sometimes i read comments and have to wonder what world are these people living in? As far as the story, it is unfortunate, but you know what i'm not going to go up to every person w/ a gun in this case a rifle, and make sure it is real before i choose to display/use deadly force...

MeefZah
09-01-2011, 13:26
Part A) Glen Beck is freaking insane

Part B) Sounds like a good shoot. Too often people anguish over the fact that the guy who the cops just smoked was a mental, or a juvenile, or high on crack and didn't know any better, or had a heart condition and shouldn't have been tased to death... who cares? Act like a responsible human and the cops won't be killing you. Act like an irresponsible one and they might. The choice is yours, or if you are truly a retard and don't know better, the choice is your family's. Which begs the question, who let dee-dee-dee out on the streets with a toy gun, anyway?

Detectorist
09-01-2011, 13:41
I don't know who writes and approves the articles on "The Blaze" which is one of Glenn Beck's many spin-off websites, but the increasingly anti-law enforcement spin is making me have issues supporting Beck.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/miami-police-shoot-mentally-handicapped-man-carrying-toy-gun/

How is the article anti LEO? Some of the comments may be.

Hack
09-01-2011, 13:47
I looked at the article. It was more in the comments that anti LE sentiment was present.

Kadetklapp
09-01-2011, 13:53
How is the article anti LEO? Some of the comments may be.

I have no doubt The Blaze posted the article in order to stir up anti-government sentiment. That's what The Blaze does. There is no other reason to post it otherwise.

I am in agreement with GBs views of the direction this country is heading, but I do not agree with the stance he has taken against law enforcement and it's painfully obvious he left Fox to go make millions off of his following. Fine, free enterprise and all that. But now he's discredited himself.

I do not read that article and walk away feeling like it was "Fair and Balanced."

A6Gator
09-01-2011, 14:26
I didn't get the anti-cop vibe from the story. Sure the sister's going complain, but that would've happened regardless of the situation. Typical "why don't they shoot the gun out of his hand" crap.

G27Chief
09-01-2011, 14:49
I didn't get the anti-cop vibe from the story. Sure the sister's going complain, but that would've happened regardless of the situation. Typical "why don't they shoot the gun out of his hand" crap.

I saw that too, vast majority of the media and public are ignorant to the acceptable "reasonable" tactics in such a situation. I see a good shoot here.

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Roering
09-01-2011, 15:40
Policeman should have just shot the gun out of his hands......while wearing his hat of course.

Probably was a necessary shoot. Hard to say without being there. Tragic for both the victim, family of the victim and the officer.

What I don't like about the article is the mentioning that the officer is on administrative leave. It insinuates that although the dept. is not saying the officer is at fault.........you know....he's currently on leave.

Nothing to mention that the officer might have taken the shooting pretty bad once he learned that it was just a mentally handicapped guy with a toy gun so he needs some time off to deal with that emotion/guilt/etc. etc.

Bruce M
09-01-2011, 16:31
Standard here to put an officer on administrative leave after a shooting.

The story today is that he could not have had a gun because he is afraid of guns, and that the family has 20 witnesses who say he did not have a gun. The 911 calls might suggest something a bit different.

Patchman
09-02-2011, 11:46
The story today is that he could not have had a gun because he is afraid of guns, and that the family has 20 witnesses who say he did not have a gun. The 911 calls might suggest something a bit different.

Families always say their little Johnny was afraid of guns, would have nothing to do with guns, didn't own a gun, don't hang out with people who own guns, etc...

When the 9-1-1 calls shown some caller(s) saying "Man With a Gun," the family is going with sound bite # 2, which is they don't know how little Johnny got a gun, his friend(s) (just started hanging around with him last week) must asked him to hold it, or the police planted it on him. After all, little Johnny was a choir boy...

Patchman
09-02-2011, 16:31
Yeah, like I can tell at a glance at this very excitable moment the differences between a toy gun, a BB gun, a paint ball gun, a non-shooting replica, a real gun disguised with a red/yellow/white-smiley-face muzzle, or a real-deal-I'll-get-killed gun.

ray9898
09-02-2011, 17:51
No win situation. A person is dead because simply because the instigated the force used against them by portraying they had an object capable of harm. Many times the officers will second guess themselves after it is found the person had no way to do them harm and it is tougher on them than the normal deadly force encounter.

Bottom line is they reacted as they were trained. There is no way to distinguish most of the toy guns from distance especially in a deadly force encounter.

razdog76
09-02-2011, 19:49
Which begs the question, who let dee-dee-dee out on the streets with a toy gun, anyway?

This may become my new tag line.

Merkavaboy
09-02-2011, 20:42
I don't know who writes and approves the articles on "The Blaze" which is one of Glenn Beck's many spin-off websites, but the increasingly anti-law enforcement spin is making me have issues supporting Beck.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/miami-police-shoot-mentally-handicapped-man-carrying-toy-gun/

I can't understand what your problem is. There's nothing "anti-cop" about the brief article. I've got several dozen or more articles from all across the country that contain the same exact info.

vikingsoftpaw
09-02-2011, 21:51
Personally, I think incidents where people 'attack' police officers with fake guns should be filed under 'Suicide by Cop'.

steveksux
09-03-2011, 07:18
Families always say their little Johnny was afraid of guns, would have nothing to do with guns, didn't own a gun, don't hang out with people who own guns, etc...

When the 9-1-1 calls shown some caller(s) saying "Man With a Gun," the family is going with sound bite # 2, which is they don't know how little Johnny got a gun, his friend(s) (just started hanging around with him last week) must asked him to hold it, or the police planted it on him. After all, little Johnny was a choir boy...I'm detecting a bit of anti-little-Johnny vibe in this post... :whistling:

Randy

steveksux
09-03-2011, 07:36
No win situation. A person is dead because simply because the instigated the force used against them by portraying they had an object capable of harm. Many times the officers will second guess themselves after it is found the person had no way to do them harm and it is tougher on them than the normal deadly force encounter.

Bottom line is they reacted as they were trained. There is no way to distinguish most of the toy guns from distance especially in a deadly force encounter.This to me is the sort of thing that would tear me up inside. I can't imagine how to get over this type of encounter intact. Head tells you there's no way you could have known, heart wonders what if I had waited just a sec, maybe I would have noticed and not pulled the trigger.

I can handle the aftermath of a "good" shoot, that also looks good in hindsight, at least I think I'd be ok, never know until it happens. But if someone innocent gets hurt in the process, eg. I shoot too fast, a stray bullet of mine hits someone (felony murder legally gets me off the hook, but I'd consider myself partly to blame, should have taken more care to aim, been a little slower, more careful). Or the opposite, I shoot too slow, and the bg gets a few extra shots off that hit someone, I'd feel like I shouldn't have tried to be so precise, and gotten more rounds on target with a less pretty group and stopped him faster. It's entirely possible that there's no happy medium, and both of those outcomes can occur simultaneously.

It's a damn shame you guys are forced to be in situations like that, without the time to be able to make sure you get it "right" right (the MMQB standard of right), barely enough time to roll the dice and get a few shots off.

Hats off to you guys, its a hell of a burden to be forced to carry, and a thankless job to boot. At least there's a few of us that are appreciative (at least when you guys are out finding real criminals instead of giving me a ticket... :tongueout:)

Randy

Dragoon44
09-03-2011, 15:06
Funny how the families never explain why their precious mentally defective relative was doing out wandering around on their own.

Kadetklapp
09-03-2011, 21:18
I can't understand what your problem is. There's nothing "anti-cop" about the brief article. I've got several dozen or more articles from all across the country that contain the same exact info.

If it's not meant to stir up the cop haters, then explain to me why it's national news and why it's on Glenn Beck's website. I can assure you not every police action shooting earns a spot there.

Merkavaboy
09-04-2011, 01:53
If it's not meant to stir up the cop haters, then explain to me why it's national news and why it's on Glenn Beck's website. I can assure you not every police action shooting earns a spot there.

Probably because it's not often thet you see an OIS incident regarding a toy gun.

The underlying theme to the article can just as easily be about people letting their mentally defected family members out into society with a toy gun.

Just because some editor allowed this news article to run doesn't mean that Glenn Beck is somehow "anti-cop".

A6Gator
09-04-2011, 17:46
Funny how the families never explain why their precious mentally defective relative was doing out wandering around on their own.

That's what I thought too. If she spent as much time keeping an eye (or making sure somebody kept an eye) on Ernie as she did pitching a b***h, this wouldn't be a thread.

glocksalot
09-06-2011, 14:56
I think the comments by some of the people are more interesting than the story, sometimes i read comments and have to wonder what world are these people living in? As far as the story, it is unfortunate, but you know what i'm not going to go up to every person w/ a gun in this case a rifle, and make sure it is real before i choose to display/use deadly force...

My thoughts exactly. I look at so many news articles involving law enforcement and them having to take some type of action, and then the public posting stupid and irrational comments that are from far left field...

These type of comments scare the crap out of me and how some of the world thinks and rationalizes things

BTW it was a "good" shoot, and whoever let that mentally disabled man walk around in public with any gun, fake or real, should be questioning themselves and their abilities instead of trying to fault someone else who was just doing their job and trying to protect the people they were sworn to protect