What would happen if you lied on tag check.. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 00:17
I was curious as to what would happen to you in your department if you said on an application for charges that, "A tag check indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant", thus making pc and the car was actually unregistered in any state. Would you get fired for essentially kidnapping an innocent man or what would happen to you. I know it is ok to lie in questioning a suspect but intentionally lying in charges seems like a jailable offense to me. Just curious what you guys think.

4949shooter
09-04-2011, 03:08
We need more specific information.

Intentionally falsifying documents would result in termination.

Making an honest mistake, well, is just an honest mistake.

Patchman
09-04-2011, 04:10
So the car was unregistered in any state... but the person was driving it anyway?

I think if you're looking for some answers, you're going to have to provide a few more particulars.

ateamer
09-04-2011, 04:46
Considering that the license plate number is going to be in the report, it is a real stretch to think that an officer is going to lie - in that same report - about who the plate is registered to, as it would take all of about seven seconds to disprove it.

PROSOUTH
09-04-2011, 08:17
"A tag check indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant", thus making pc and the car was actually unregistered in any state

As stated above an intentional lie will get you fired for falsifying documents.

As for your statement of lieing about registration to obtain PC, I don't think I have ever run a car that was not registered in any state and If it wasn't registered it probably had a tag that's registration did not match the vehicle description and that would be PC in itself.

Now for the warrant issued stating that the registration upon check was registered to the defendant, that is what the magistrate wrote and sometimes they misconstrue your statements and the warrant comes down with a slight error. The officer may have stated upon check the vehicle was not registered to the currant owner.

We have a high rate of "open title" vehicles on our roads. The new owner hangs on his tag and rides, so when i run it it comes back to a VW and is on a Chevy truck. That's PC for a stop. The vehicle will be registered but to the previous owner and that's why I check for ownership by VIN. I can't see an officer making a false statement such as this just to get PC for a stop. PC is to easy to get for a traffic stop to do such a thing as lie. :dunno:

Did you know that a motor vehicle not registered in your name can not be reported stolen? The legal owner has to report the theft. Without proof of ownership, sorry no report.:wow:

PROSOUTH
09-04-2011, 08:32
Whoops I double tapped this one

Cav
09-04-2011, 08:50
If an Officer lies and uses that lie as his PC to make an arrest, knowing that the PC is going to be public record and used in court, and that the defense, arrested person, and Judge will know about it, they need to be fired.

Not just for lying, but for being that dumb.

I have had a few vehicle that were not registered. CO seems to drop LP's after a set time, where in TX 10 years later or 2 transfers of LP's and we still get a trail. I have run a few CO LP's that had been expired a year or two, and had no return. Even had my dispatch run the VIN thru each state/area to be sure.

A mistake that put a innocent person in jail would be a few days off. A mistake that put a criminal in jail would be a letter in their file.

CAcop
09-04-2011, 09:22
If the vehicle is unregistered in any state that is instant PC. I can tow the car for being unregistered and conduct an inventory of the vehicle prior to the tow. In CA is is fairly common to find an unregistered car due to DMV dropping cars after 3 years of not being registered. With 38 million plates they have to prune the tree.

merlynusn
09-04-2011, 09:31
Did you know that a motor vehicle not registered in your name can not be reported stolen? The legal owner has to report the theft. Without proof of ownership, sorry no report.:wow:

The best part here is that only the registered owner can retrieve the vehicle from a tow yard.

Anyone can report the vehicle stolen if they were in control of it. But the victim would be the registered owner.

DustyJacket
09-04-2011, 10:05
Departments are pretty paranoid about use/misuse of tag checks and checks on people.
They track them all.
Lying on a report or affadavit can get you fired. and probably sued.

If used as testemony against the bad guy, in Colorado, it can get you the same sentence and the bad guy faces. (Not perjury, it is an anti-framing law. Can't recall the actual wording after all these years.)

RussP
09-04-2011, 10:07
I was curious as to what would happen to you in your department if you said on an application for charges that, "A tag check indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant", thus making pc and the car was actually unregistered in any state. Would you get fired for essentially kidnapping an innocent man or what would happen to you. I know it is ok to lie in questioning a suspect but intentionally lying in charges seems like a jailable offense to me. Just curious what you guys think.To whom did this happen?

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 10:30
As stated above an intentional lie will get you fired for falsifying documents.

As for your statement of lieing about registration to obtain PC, I don't think I have ever run a car that was not registered in any state and If it wasn't registered it probably had a tag that's registration did not match the vehicle description and that would be PC in itself.

Now for the warrant issued stating that the registration upon check was registered to the defendant, that is what the magistrate wrote and sometimes they misconstrue your statements and the warrant comes down with a slight error. The officer may have stated upon check the vehicle was not registered to the currant owner.

We have a high rate of "open title" vehicles on our roads. The new owner hangs on his tag and rides, so when i run it it comes back to a VW and is on a Chevy truck. That's PC for a stop. The vehicle will be registered but to the previous owner and that's why I check for ownership by VIN. I can't see an officer making a false statement such as this just to get PC for a stop. PC is to easy to get for a traffic stop to do such a thing as lie. :dunno:

Did you know that a motor vehicle not registered in your name can not be reported stolen? The legal owner has to report the theft. Without proof of ownership, sorry no report.:wow:

You wrote what I believed to be correct. My neighbor got popped on a warrant after a dirtbag who was harassing him went to the magistrate and filed charges. The charges were referred to a detective who allegedly investigated. But he failed to check out the man who told the story..he had an open warrant at the time and the car was unregistered but they had an old plate on it to take the car to a repair facility. So the old plate on it could have been the pc for a driving offense charge like a 250 dollar ticket etc but I don't see how he has gotten away so far with the making of the statement about the tag when the car was truly not registered anywhere because it was brand new and he had lost the certificate of origin from the dealer. The funny thing is that the "defendant's address" also had a wrong zipcode so it may have been shoddy detective work on something that could have as stated in another post "checked in about seven seconds" I think I could give a street cop more leeway on a mistake because the decisions are made more quickly and under more stress than a detective sitting in an office with plenty of time to ponder the information found. The guy allegedly ran a guy off the road, beat him with a pistol etc but of course they were made up as a revenge warrant. I guess this kind of stuff can happen but I know my neighbor was really ticked off. The tag they had displayed came up to a Trans Am and the car it was on was a family sedan. Kind of like comparing Pam Anderson to George Lopez. :whistling: They look totally different. Thanks for your info.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 10:33
To whom did this happen?

It happened to a close friend and he is trying to get the detective arrested for kidnapping by the feds. So we will see what happens. The man had never had handcuffs on him in his life except for his police friends showing him how to cuff etc. He has claustrophobia so I think that freaked him out too.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 10:38
Departments are pretty paranoid about use/misuse of tag checks and checks on people.
They track them all.
Lying on a report or affadavit can get you fired. and probably sued.

If used as testemony against the bad guy, in Colorado, it can get you the same sentence and the bad guy faces. (Not perjury, it is an anti-framing law. Can't recall the actual wording after all these years.)

That is interesting. I did see a lady cop get fired for running checks for a drug dealer she was dating and then she faced jail time. There are so many different charges that they can levy upon anyone including the cops..:wow: I know all the computer checks are logged on the computer. I just can't imagine a detective taking the chance on something that is pretty simple to check.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 10:45
We need more specific information.

Intentionally falsifying documents would result in termination.

Making an honest mistake, well, is just an honest mistake.

The neighbor had a new car that he lost the certificate of origin. He needed to take the new car to the shop so he displayed an old tag from a trans Am on it with a different address. A man who was harassing the family went into a magistrate and filed false charges and they were referred to the detective who for some reason "lied". The address given was not correct because it did not have the guy's dmv address and the statement about the tag was way off base. I can only figure that what happened was the the detective thought the man who had a clean record was honest and that the car simply was not in the system but I would have never said a car was registered to a defendant if it wasn't. But from what I was told I think the guy did intentionally lie but we will have to see what the prosecutors decide to do. the charges were dismissed against my neighbor but he is still ticked off and wants some justice.

MeefZah
09-04-2011, 10:48
WTF, over. :upeyes:

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 10:50
If the vehicle is unregistered in any state that is instant PC. I can tow the car for being unregistered and conduct an inventory of the vehicle prior to the tow. In CA is is fairly common to find an unregistered car due to DMV dropping cars after 3 years of not being registered. With 38 million plates they have to prune the tree.

They do that here on the East Coast too. They normally tow cars with different plates and charge the owner with a 250 dollar fine or so for driving and unregistered car. From this guy's story the old tag had to be hand searched because it was a "dead" tag from the pruning you have described. Aren't there like three cars for every person in CA? The neighbor even mentioned he would have not minded a 250 or so ticket..but hated being popped on a lie.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 10:57
If an Officer lies and uses that lie as his PC to make an arrest, knowing that the PC is going to be public record and used in court, and that the defense, arrested person, and Judge will know about it, they need to be fired.

Not just for lying, but for being that dumb.

I have had a few vehicle that were not registered. CO seems to drop LP's after a set time, where in TX 10 years later or 2 transfers of LP's and we still get a trail. I have run a few CO LP's that had been expired a year or two, and had no return. Even had my dispatch run the VIN thru each state/area to be sure.

A mistake that put a innocent person in jail would be a few days off. A mistake that put a criminal in jail would be a letter in their file.

I have seen cops get "retrained" and I think the detective was transferred but the victim wants him in jail for kidnapping and to lose his pension. I think it is fair if the detective knowingly lied because the neighbor was diagnosed with ptsd and has nightmares about the arrest and humiliation. It sounds like you do your job correctly and the detective here flew by his pants. I guess we will see if it was an innocent mistake for a conspiratory lie in the next few months.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 11:07
Considering that the license plate number is going to be in the report, it is a real stretch to think that an officer is going to lie - in that same report - about who the plate is registered to, as it would take all of about seven seconds to disprove it.

What I found interesting is that states like Virginia allow people to have a car registered to an address that is different than their driver's license address and each car can have a different address but other states like Maryland only allow the address to come up to the certain address that is on the person's driver's permit. It is interesting how each state is different and I can only imagine the computers maintained by the states:wow:. The detective had a hand check done and the old address was on the neighbor's old tag and his new address was twenty miles away and the new address was on his driver's license but the address given on the charges was the old address. I just don't see how something so simple got messed up so badly.

Patchman
09-04-2011, 11:41
What I found interesting is that states like Virginia allow people to have a car registered to an address that is different than their driver's license address and each car can have a different address but other states like Maryland only allow the address to come up to the certain address that is on the person's driver's permit.

New legislation with regards to MVs that I've suggested:

- Cars can only be registered to those who have a valid DL;
-Both the DL and the registration must have the same address;
- All license plates must be accounted for (either currently registered on a vehicle, or turned in to DMV for destruction) before a new set of plates will be issued or a newly acquired car will be registered. Yes, this would put the onus on the motorist to account for all his license plates.


The detective had a hand check done and the old address was on the neighbor's old tag and his new address was twenty miles away and the new address was on his driver's license but the address given on the charges was the old address. I just don't see how something so simple got messed up so badly.

old_pigpen
09-04-2011, 12:33
Departments are pretty paranoid about use/misuse of tag checks and checks on people.
They track them all

+1

I know two people who were sentenced to state prison for running unauthorized 29 checks on friends and coworkers.

Whitey1
09-04-2011, 12:50
Sounds like the neighbor wants him found guilty so he can sue for a easy payday.

steveksux
09-04-2011, 12:51
I was curious as to what would happen to you in your department if you said on an application for charges that, "A tag check indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant", thus making pc and the car was actually unregistered in any state. Would you get fired for essentially kidnapping an innocent man or what would happen to you. I know it is ok to lie in questioning a suspect but intentionally lying in charges seems like a jailable offense to me. Just curious what you guys think.There's no way in hell you can enter a tag incorrectly and happen to pull up the guys name you just pulled over.

So that can't be an honest mistake. Odds are like hitting the lottery.

If the car is unregistered in any state, its pretty easy for someone else to rerun the tag and find out.

So you have an obvious lie, easy to find. I can't imagine too many cops being that stupid, and dishonest, and willing to throw the career away.

I don't see how this hypothetical is even possible.

Randy

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 13:28
Sounds like the neighbor wants him found guilty so he can sue for a easy payday.

He took it personally because it was not a traffic stop or an accident. He is still asking the state and the feds to prosecute the detective. I am sure his attorney fees ticked him off as it would anyone.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 13:33
There's no way in hell you can enter a tag incorrectly and happen to pull up the guys name you just pulled over.

So that can't be an honest mistake. Odds are like hitting the lottery.

If the car is unregistered in any state, its pretty easy for someone else to rerun the tag and find out.

So you have an obvious lie, easy to find. I can't imagine too many cops being that stupid, and dishonest, and willing to throw the career away.

I don't see how this hypothetical is even possible.

Randy

I looked at the carfax the neighbor has and it shows what he said..never registered until after the incident. I can't explain how the det lied or came up with the info. I think what happened was that after the man filled out an application for charges that the det got a "hard on" for the neighbor and didn't do his job but I can't fathom a trained leo being so careless.

"So you have an obvious lie, easy to find. I can't imagine too many cops being that stupid, and dishonest, and willing to throw the career away. "

I fully agree with that statement.

RussP
09-04-2011, 14:08
...Okay let me see if I can get this straight.

A person harassing your neighbor swore out a warrant against him alleging your neighbor ran a guy off the road, beat him with a pistol etc. The warrant has the wrong zip code for your neighbor's current address.

The warrant was referred to a detective.

The detective investigated your neighbor.

The detective did not investigate the person harassing your neighbor.

Here is where I am confused. The person harassing your neighbor had an open warrant, or your neighbor had an open warrant?

Your neighbor owned a new family sedan style car.

The neighbor's new car was not registered because he lost the certificate of origin.

The neighbor put an old plate for a TranAm on the new family sedan style car.

Okay, that brings us to another point of confusion. Was the neighbor driving the new family style sedan and was stopped? Or was the new car with the old plates on it sitting in his driveway?

Okay, now, the unregistered, new family style sedan had the old TransAm plates on it. The name associated with the transAm plates is your neighbor's name. The address associated with those old plates was your neighbor's old address, but different from the address on your neighbor's driver's license.

After further investigation, all charges against your neighbor were dismissed.

Now your neighbor wants to sue the detective for kidnapping.

Do I have anything wrong or did I omit something? I'll wait for any corrections before going on.

RussP
09-04-2011, 14:13
An addendum to my post above...He took it personally because it was not a traffic stop or an accident. He is still asking the state and the feds to prosecute the detective. I am sure his attorney fees ticked him off as it would anyone.Then how did the new family style sedan with the TransAm plates on it come into play?

RussP
09-04-2011, 14:20
A further addendum...I looked at the carfax the neighbor has and it shows what he said..never registered until after the incident. I can't explain how the det lied or came up with the info.But the plates from the TransAm were on the car, correct? Of course it is. You've said that several times...sorry.I think what happened was that after the man filled out an application for charges that the det got a "hard on" for the neighbor and didn't do his job but I can't fathom a trained leo being so.So when the magistrate certified the charges, the detective received the case and decided to lie about the registration on the new family style sedan with the TransAm plates on it.

How long did your neighbor have the new family style sedan before he needed to take it in for repairs with the TransAm plates on it?

Cav
09-04-2011, 15:15
I looked at the carfax the neighbor has and it shows what he said..never registered until after the incident. I can't explain how the det lied or came up with the info. I think what happened was that after the man filled out an application for charges that the det got a "hard on" for the neighbor and didn't do his job but I can't fathom a trained leo being so careless.



Should make for a great court case. The Carfax will will not make the case. It will be seen as just a simple record that may or may not mean anything at all. Now when the Officer/Det's ID is entered into the state and national data base, that should show what all he ran.

FWIW, a simple VIN check, or old LP will show more info and more current info than a Carfax to follow up on.

I can run a LP, run a VIN, check a name, a drivers license, a water listing, an address, and a phone number to get real info that when looked into will hold up in court more than a Carfax.

Sounds to me that your neighbor did not follow the law, and now want to pass the buck. From what I have read, you neighbor did not follow known laws, and thinks the Police are at fault for his screw ups.

I was lost at first with the story, but I am guessing your neighbor messed up, and has no clue that there is more than just a license plate for Police to work off of. Most people that mess up with registration, inspection, address change, etc... tend to know that the Police can look up info via a few sources that hold up well in a court of law.

MeefZah
09-04-2011, 15:46
I was lost at first with the story...


You cared enough to actually make it to the point in this ranting, incoherent drivel where you got lost? :rofl: You are a better man than I.

groovyash
09-04-2011, 16:12
Ok, I'm going to venture a guess that the tag number was given to officers by the "victim" following the road rage incident, who then ran the tag which came back to your neighbor who happened to be using it on a vehicle other than what it was actually registered for which then connected your neighbor as the actor in this same incident. This seems the most plausible scenario but I could be way off.

Then in typing the report the detective referred to the vehicle as being registered to so and so instead of the tag being, although both happen to actually be in the possession of the same person in this case. The problem arises, Juney, in the fact that these two things are always the same unless someone has illegally placed a fraudulent tag on a vehicle, which is the case here.

In all honesty unless I was investigating a forged or altered documents case (which is what displaying a tag not registered for the vehicle it is on falls under here), suspected a stolen vehicle, or it immediately jumped out at me that the makes were different on the NCIC printout, I would not go find this vehicle and check the vin against the plate to confirm they were different either.

The problem is further compounded because were it not for the illegal actions of your neighbor, the detective would have obtained the correct information by running that plate through NCIC, and one can infer the mistake was made in good faith.

Incidentally, here the grading for forged or altered documents is higher than a simple assault/harassment so it's ironic that he didn't check it as it would have been the more severe crime.

MeefZah
09-04-2011, 16:29
Trans Am

Is this your neighbor?

http://www.tribute.ca/tribute_objects/images/movies/joe_dirt/joedirt3.jpg

SAR
09-04-2011, 16:30
I thought I understood, then I didn't. Now I don't know... lol

Hunca Munca
09-04-2011, 16:33
"Tagged" for incoherence.

blueiron
09-04-2011, 16:48
WTF, over. :upeyes:



This is the winning post in my neighborhood.

Cav
09-04-2011, 16:59
You cared enough to actually make it to the point in this ranting, incoherent drivel where you got lost? :rofl: You are a better man than I.

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/at-first-i-was-like.jpg

:tongueout:

ray9898
09-04-2011, 19:23
For the love of all things holy....I think I am more confused now than after the first post.

Lemme try this...........


Neighbor is involved in a dispute and has a warrant issued for him by a judge.

Case is forwarded to a Detective to put together a case file for the prosecutor and to effect an arrest since warrant is already issued. He has no duty to investigate the complainant who had already convinced the judge that probable cause exists for an arrest.

Neighbor has a new unregistered car which was involved in the incident.

Neighbor can't register car because of open warrant and lost paperwork.

Neighbor uses old plate on new car to take it to the shop.

Detective checks plate and finds it returns to person listed in warrant although on a different car.

Detective states somewhere the 'car was registered to the defendant' and your neighbor thinks he can have him arrested for kidnapping because of it even though a valid arrest warrant was issued prior to any investigation by him?

4949shooter
09-04-2011, 19:32
Yes, so it seems it's more or less semantics of report writing.

Instead of the car being "registered to the defendant," the (fictitious) license plate he had put on the vehicle belonged on a car that was registered to the defendant.

It's just a play on words. Perhaps that was a poorly written line in the report, or perhaps the detective was as confused as the rest of us are.

ateamer
09-04-2011, 19:43
So was the guy arrested on the warrant? If so, then it doesn't matter how the information was obtained. The warrant is, in and of itself, probable cause to arrest. How the person is located and detained is immaterial. Get it? The warrant is a court order to arrest. It doesn't matter if the person with the warrant was stopped for a traffic violation, because the officer knew of the warrant or just pulled him over without reasonable suspicion. Probable cause for arrest has already been adjudicated; therefore, the arrest is valid on its face regardless of how it was initiated.

Cochese
09-04-2011, 19:52
If an Officer lies and uses that lie as his PC to make an arrest, knowing that the PC is going to be public record and used in court, and that the defense, arrested person, and Judge will know about it, they need to be fired.

Not just for lying, but for being that dumb.

I have had a few vehicle that were not registered. CO seems to drop LP's after a set time, where in TX 10 years later or 2 transfers of LP's and we still get a trail. I have run a few CO LP's that had been expired a year or two, and had no return. Even had my dispatch run the VIN thru each state/area to be sure.

A mistake that put a innocent person in jail would be a few days off. A mistake that put a criminal in jail would be a letter in their file.

Yep. Colorado plates fall out of the online database and we get "no record" when we run a 28, we have to "send off for a hand search" meaning dispatch teletypes DMV and some employee there actually cracks open a file cabinet and gets our record for us.

Pain in the ass.

Cochese
09-04-2011, 19:58
It happened to a close friend and he is trying to get the detective arrested for kidnapping by the feds. So we will see what happens. The man had never had handcuffs on him in his life except for his police friends showing him how to cuff etc. He has claustrophobia so I think that freaked him out too.

Your ****** bag neighbor should focus on a civil suit against the complainant rather than going after a detective working in good faith. The federali are going to LOL at your ****** neighbor.

Patchman
09-04-2011, 20:29
You wrote what I believed to be correct. My neighbor got popped on a warrant... and the car was unregistered but they had an old plate on it to take the car to a repair facility.

the car was truly not registered anywhere because it was brand new and he had lost the certificate of origin from the dealer. The funny thing is that the "defendant's address" also had a wrong zipcode

The tag he had displayed came up to a Trans Am and the car it was on was a family sedan.


I am curious ... if you said on an application for charges that, "A tag check indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant" and the car was actually unregistered in any state.

OK, so your neighbor put an old plate (for a TransAm) on a newly owned sedan. And now you're neighbor is having a hissy fit because the Detective wrote in his investigative report that "A tag check (of the old plate) indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant."

Your state is one of those where the plate "belongs" to the person, not the car. Meaning, if the car is sold to a third party, the third party has to get new plates. The original owner retains the old plates and is supposed to either return it to DMV or register it to a replacement car. (Some states the plates go with the car. So if car is sold to third party, DMV changes ownership of the plates to the third party's name).

So with due respect, but the old plate IS registered to your neighbor. It may or may not have expired as far as the DMV is concerned, but it is still registered to your neighbor.

That your neighbor's current DL has a different address is irrelevant. Why? Because one is allowed to have and use more than one address, such as (1) for where you live and (2) for where you want to receive mail. DMV's records of your address is for mailing purposes only, and to contact you when it's time for renewal.

Dukeboy01
09-04-2011, 20:48
Looks like the OP decided to disappear once folks started to sort out the hash....

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 20:53
An addendum to my post above...Then how did the new family style sedan with the TransAm plates on it come into play?

The charges had at the end that "a check on the tag number indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant". The car was not registered to anyone. the old tag was registered to the defendant's old car. The old tag was placed upon the car to take the car to the shop where it was sitting when the man made a false claim. The lie is that the family sedan was never registered. In addition, the address given was not the correct address but the man's parent's home which was on the old tag. Does that make sense to you. The man that was harassing the neighbor had two open warrants on him, one from my neighbor and one from another man he had threatened over the phone. What ticked my neighbor off the most was that the detective lied and then the neighbor was arrested on lies by the law.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 20:55
Your ****** bag neighbor should focus on a civil suit against the complainant rather than going after a detective working in good faith. The federali are going to LOL at your ****** neighbor.

The tag number check is the key. He has already been told that he should have punched the cop in the nose for lying. :rofl:If the detective had not said the car was registered to the defendant there was no probably cause but what this shows is that leo are human and they do mess up and sometimes lie to be right.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 20:58
New legislation with regards to MVs that I've suggested:

- Cars can only be registered to those who have a valid DL;
-Both the DL and the registration must have the same address;
- All license plates must be accounted for (either currently registered on a vehicle, or turned in to DMV for destruction) before a new set of plates will be issued or a newly acquired car will be registered. Yes, this would put the onus on the motorist to account for all his license plates.


In Maryland the address has to match the driver's license. In Va and other states it does not have to match on each car and the states make money off of people registering cars in their states like North Carolina and Va etc.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:06
Okay let me see if I can get this straight.

A person harassing your neighbor swore out a warrant against him alleging your neighbor ran a guy off the road, beat him with a pistol etc. The warrant has the wrong zip code for your neighbor's current address.

The person who was harassing the neighbor swore out a charge after he knew the neighbor had sworn out a charge against him...cross warrant type of thing.

The warrant was referred to a detective.

Yes, because of the seriousness of the charges.

The detective investigated your neighbor.

Must not have because he didn't mention the neighbor's driver's license address.

The detective did not investigate the person harassing your neighbor.

Right, the man was a felon who had robbed a liquor store as a teenager and had an extensive past.

Here is where I am confused. The person harassing your neighbor had an open warrant, or your neighbor had an open warrant?

The man had two open warrants and the detective did not check it out.

Your neighbor owned a new family sedan style car.

Right

The neighbor's new car was not registered because he lost the certificate of origin.

Correct and he had never registered it anywhere.

The neighbor put an old plate for a TranAm on the new family sedan style car.

Right to take it to the car dealership.

Okay, that brings us to another point of confusion. Was the neighbor driving the new family style sedan and was stopped? Or was the new car with the old plates on it sitting in his driveway?

Car was never stopped but was driven to dealership and other than that sitting in the driveway. Neighbor was never charged with motor vehicle infraction.

Okay, now, the unregistered, new family style sedan had the old TransAm plates on it. The name associated with the transAm plates is your neighbor's name. The address associated with those old plates was your neighbor's old address, but different from the address on your neighbor's driver's license.

Correct but the detective placed the wrong zipcode on the address which makes the address not even real. The name is right but everything else is wrong.

After further investigation, all charges against your neighbor were dismissed.

Six months.

Now your neighbor wants to sue the detective for kidnapping.

Wants him fired for kidnapping and sued for false imprisonment and conspiracy because nobody could be that stupid. :rofl:

Do I have anything wrong or did I omit something? I'll wait for any corrections before going on.

I think you are about right.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:07
Looks like the OP decided to disappear once folks started to sort out the hash....

Actually went to dinner with gf. :cool:

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:08
http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/at-first-i-was-like.jpg

:tongueout:


Great pics. :tongueout:

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:10
An addendum to my post above...Then how did the new family style sedan with the TransAm plates on it come into play?

The man has always had more than one car. The guy knew which car was his and went and filed false charges with the magistrate which were then referred to a detective because of the seriousness of the charges. The Trans Am plates were displayed on the family sedan but they were "dead" for a few years. Hope this clarifies it.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:15
A further addendum...But the plates from the TransAm were on the car, correct? Of course it is. You've said that several times...sorry.So when the magistrate certified the charges, the detective received the case and decided to lie about the registration on the new family style sedan with the TransAm plates on it.

How long did your neighbor have the new family style sedan before he needed to take it in for repairs with the TransAm plates on it?

He had it for about six months and was going to give it back because it was a pos. :rofl:But then he took it to the shop and then this went down. The guy didn't even live at the home though..it was his parent's home. The new operator's/driver's license address was twenty miles away and there were no mentions of the address ever. He did technically violate the law by driving the unregistered motor vehicle even though it had insurance. The car was in the dealership when the false warrant was issued.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:21
Should make for a great court case. The Carfax will will not make the case. It will be seen as just a simple record that may or may not mean anything at all. Now when the Officer/Det's ID is entered into the state and national data base, that should show what all he ran.

FWIW, a simple VIN check, or old LP will show more info and more current info than a Carfax to follow up on.

I can run a LP, run a VIN, check a name, a drivers license, a water listing, an address, and a phone number to get real info that when looked into will hold up in court more than a Carfax.

Sounds to me that your neighbor did not follow the law, and now want to pass the buck. From what I have read, you neighbor did not follow known laws, and thinks the Police are at fault for his screw ups.

I was lost at first with the story, but I am guessing your neighbor messed up, and has no clue that there is more than just a license plate for Police to work off of. Most people that mess up with registration, inspection, address change, etc... tend to know that the Police can look up info via a few sources that hold up well in a court of law.

I understand what you are saying but if the cop writes that a car is registered to him and it is not that makes the warrant not valid. I know people can find people by other means but that was not the issue. He was a victim and he should have just punched the guy that filled the charges in the first place but I think we all know that violence is frowned upon. Whether the man drove the car with old tags is not the issue but it shows how intentional errors/omissions can cause false arrest and a distrust of some parts of our legal system. The case was dismissed because of the tag but he still remains ticked off because of the money etc.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:24
Yes, so it seems it's more or less semantics of report writing.

Instead of the car being "registered to the defendant," the (fictitious) license plate he had put on the vehicle belonged on a car that was registered to the defendant.

It's just a play on words. Perhaps that was a poorly written line in the report, or perhaps the detective was as confused as the rest of us are.

But the argument is that if the line is removed there is no probable cause because there is no identity of the car and person validated. But I think it shows a rush to judgment on the detective's part. When I saw the charges I told him to sue but most cases are dismissed because of immunity. It happens more than we know.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:26
Is this your neighbor?

http://www.tribute.ca/tribute_objects/images/movies/joe_dirt/joedirt3.jpg

Looks like him.:rofl:

Dukeboy01
09-04-2011, 21:26
Who actually swore out the warrant? Or, to put it another way, on who's affadavit of probable cause was the warrant for your neighbor's arrest issued?

The detective or the private citizen your neighbor is having problems with?

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:30
Who actually swore out the warrant? Or, to put it another way, on who's affadavit of probable cause was the warrant for your neighbor's arrest issued?

The detective or the private citizen your neighbor is having problems with?

It was the detective and that is why the neighbor is ticked off. He was arrested and didn't do a darned thing so I told him the next time to stomp some butt and get arrested for doing something. :rofl:The problem is that people can swear on statements and then not all cops/attorneys etc do their jobs and cost people money for nothing. The poor guy has claustrophobia and I can only imagine his fear kicking in..kind of like the deputy down in Tennessee I think that was scared after being locked in a cell and started shooting to get out. But there is no excuse for a cop to lie about a tag check in this case or any other case. I tried to swear out charges some years back and the tag number didn't match so they would not give charges. So due diligence must be used.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:33
Yep. Colorado plates fall out of the online database and we get "no record" when we run a 28, we have to "send off for a hand search" meaning dispatch teletypes DMV and some employee there actually cracks open a file cabinet and gets our record for us.

Pain in the ass.

I think that is how they do it everywhere.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:39
So was the guy arrested on the warrant? If so, then it doesn't matter how the information was obtained. The warrant is, in and of itself, probable cause to arrest. How the person is located and detained is immaterial. Get it? The warrant is a court order to arrest. It doesn't matter if the person with the warrant was stopped for a traffic violation, because the officer knew of the warrant or just pulled him over without reasonable suspicion. Probable cause for arrest has already been adjudicated; therefore, the arrest is valid on its face regardless of how it was initiated.

The neighbor was arrested on the false warrant and then the case was eventually dismissed. I understand the legality of a warrant but if the leo lied in the application for such then it makes the warrant illegal. They now have it on the computer that the neighbor was "falsely arrested". Now to me if the neighbor had told each policeman that he came into contact with that the car was unregistered then they had a duty to check what he was saying and arrest the man who told the police the lies for making a false statement etc. But that is a secondary issue.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:41
You cared enough to actually make it to the point in this ranting, incoherent drivel where you got lost? :rofl: You are a better man than I.

I think it is pretty simple. Man tells story to cop who writes down lie and man is falsely arrested. Man is ticked off and wants justice. :whistling: In the old days Marshal Matt Dillon would have been involved.:rofl:

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 21:49
For the love of all things holy....I think I am more confused now than after the first post.

Lemme try this...........


Neighbor is involved in a dispute and has a warrant issued for him by a judge.

No, charges were referred by magistrate to a detective who wrote wrong information on application for charges.


Case is forwarded to a Detective to put together a case file for the prosecutor and to effect an arrest since warrant is already issued. He has no duty to investigate the complainant who had already convinced the judge that probable cause exists for an arrest.

Detective wrote application for charges and then he swore to them and then neighbor was arrested.


Neighbor has a new unregistered car which was involved in the incident.

Never an incident but the man said the car was involved even though he could not describe the car.


Neighbor can't register car because of open warrant and lost paperwork.

Neighbor was under no legal obligation to register the car but it was unregistered because he lost the certificate of origin in the wash.


Neighbor uses old plate on new car to take it to the shop.

Correct, car was in shop when man went in and lied to police etc.


Detective checks plate and finds it returns to person listed in warrant although on a different car.

Detective runs plate and come sup with name that the man had already written on the application even though he supposedly didn't know the neighbor.


Detective states somewhere the 'car was registered to the defendant' and your neighbor thinks he can have him arrested for kidnapping because of it even though a valid arrest warrant was issued prior to any investigation by him?

Not a valid arrest warrant because the car was not registered to him or anyone else.


It makes sense to me. But most of us always think that people charged have probably done something and a lot of the time it is not true. I see this a lot in our courts and if people had to pay fifty dollars to file charges and then pay for the defendant's legal fees and damages without a lawsuit then this kind of thing would stop. I will keep you guys posted as to what happens as I learn about it. A Trans Am does not look like an Old Cutlass. :rofl:

Cav
09-04-2011, 22:02
Yep. Colorado plates fall out of the online database and we get "no record" when we run a 28, we have to "send off for a hand search" meaning dispatch teletypes DMV and some employee there actually cracks open a file cabinet and gets our record for us.

Pain in the ass.

That issue can cause a lot of people from CO to have bad dealing in TX.

Had a vehicle I stopped from CO and the front LP had an experation date that was like a few months expired. I thought the guy was being slick swapping his front and rear LP. They matched, so I ran the LP, and it came back with no record. I ran it by VIN, no record. If the guy was not a soldier and I did not know where he lived from driving past the vehicle in his driveway a few times, I would have arrested him and impounded his vehicle vs a simple ticket for expired registration.

Glad you posted that, as I have found a lot CO LP's that make me want to just arrest vs just ticket. Only issues I have had with the TX DMV is same day registration and that is rare (a day later and they are in the system). Vehicle Reg's expired 10+ years old from Texas show up. Duplicate registrations show up.

CAcop
09-04-2011, 22:03
I feel like I am in traffic court where some clown tries to get out of a ticket because I listed his address as 123 Main St instead of 123 Main Ave. And its got nothing to do with the charge.

Whitey1
09-04-2011, 22:18
I feel like I am in traffic court where some clown tries to get out of a ticket because I listed his address as 123 Main St instead of 123 Main Ave. And its got nothing to do with the charge.

Bingo. Stoopid isn't it.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 22:19
I feel like I am in traffic court where some clown tries to get out of a ticket because I listed his address as 123 Main St instead of 123 Main Ave. And its got nothing to do with the charge.

I hear that a lot. :rofl:But that does not change the ticket. But if you lied I bet you would find out. I saw a lawyer with a traffic ticket trying to tell a judge that he had a clean driving record and asked for probation before judgment. The judge checked his record and saw traffic tickets..referred the attorney to disciplinary commission and he was disbarred for lying to a judge. :wow:

Does your state have just one address for person or can you run different addresses for each car? Just curious.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 22:23
Bingo. Stoopid isn't it.

If you are referring to the thread let me ask you this. If you are not driving down the road and a cop comes to your home, arrests you for a charge that you have no idea about and costs you more than ten grand in legal fees how would you feel? It can happen even to cops in our system. It happens to everyone nowadays and the worst cases are the stupid protection orders but that is another thread for someone else to discuss. :whistling:

ateamer
09-04-2011, 22:49
Does your state have just one address for person or can you run different addresses for each car? Just curious.
You can register your car to any address that you want. It's just a location where DMV can get mail to you, so that you send in the money on time every year. I don't think that it has to be your home address; neither does your DL have to be to your home. Our vehicles and DLs are all to our PO box. A lot of people use their business address.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 22:55
You can register your car to any address that you want. It's just a location where DMV can get mail to you, so that you send in the money on time every year. I don't think that it has to be your home address; neither does your DL have to be to your home. Our vehicles and DLs are all to our PO box. A lot of people use their business address.

That is how it is in Va. But in Md and Dc they have to have one address. That is a good way in my opinion to keep scofflaws at bay.

groovyash
09-04-2011, 23:02
I'm still failing to understand how if the detective ran the plate that was on that car anyone can claim it was a "lie" to say that the car was registered to the owner of the plate.

The detective's statement is incorrect, however a reasonable person infers that the plate being registered to the owner and the car it's on being registered to the owner and matching the plate would be one in the same since it is required by law to be that way. In fact the only way it could be otherwise is if the owner were commiting a criminal act by displaying the incorrect plate on the vehicle.

Since the detective cannot legally be expected to anticipate the criminal actions of the owner of the car which he did specifically as a subterfuge to hide the fact that the car was unregistered and give it the appearance that the plate did belong on that vehicle I'm not sure how he can be upset that it worked.

Again, this is how I am interpreting what I think you are saying, but it genuinely feels like something is missing or being misstated here.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 23:16
I'm still failing to understand how if the detective ran the plate that was on that car anyone can claim it was a "lie" to say that the car was registered to the owner of the plate.

The detective's statement is incorrect, however a reasonable person infers that the plate being registered to the owner and the car it's on being registered to the owner and matching the plate would be one in the same since it is required by law to be that way. In fact the only way it could be otherwise is if the owner were commiting a criminal act by displaying the incorrect plate on the vehicle.

Since the detective cannot legally be expected to anticipate the criminal actions of the owner of the car which he did specifically as a subterfuge to hide the fact that the car was unregistered and give it the appearance that the plate did belong on that vehicle I'm not sure how he can be upset that it worked.

Again, this is how I am interpreting what I think you are saying, but it genuinely feels like something is missing or being misstated here.

It was a lie because the car was not registered to anyone. I understand the part about the tag supposed to come up to the car it is on but I have personally seen undercover cop cars with tags to ole ladies. :rofl:So the cop lied and the first leo responses understood what was a lie. He should have never said the car was registered to the defendant and then it would have changed the dynamics of the case. What he did was to make an enemy for life and that is not good. I know how prosecutors use the shotgun approach to charges and I can only imagine what they could say about the leo. Conspiracy, wearing a handgun in the commission of a crime etc. The system can be very ruthless sometimes.

From what I read I don't even know if the detective did anything but because my neighbor asked them if they were "f'in stupid" they may have had it in for him. But I would have called them worse than stupid. :rofl:The neighbor was not committing a criminal act but he never expected to be arrested for a false charge. To me it is interesting how the system wants people to "pay into" the system even if they did nothing.

Chico Bill
09-04-2011, 23:25
First...Why am I getting involved? I will slap myself later.

Second...What does the registration have to do with the warrant? I don't get it. It's like getting arrested for kicking someone's dog and getting mad because the cop told you it was 10:00 AM when it was really noon.

I just don't get it. I also don't get how you can insist he was lying when all your information is second hand from an angry arrestee.

I often find if I assumed as much about people as people do about me I'd make many more arrests than I do.



See how fun it is to make claims based on second/third/eighteenth-hand information?

groovyash
09-04-2011, 23:27
It was a lie because the car was not registered to anyone. I understand the part about the tag supposed to come up to the car it is on but I have personally seen undercover cop cars with tags to ole ladies. :rofl:So the cop lied and the first leo responses understood what was a lie. He should have never said the car was registered to the defendant and then it would have changed the dynamics of the case. What he did was to make an enemy for life and that is not good. I know how prosecutors use the shotgun approach to charges and I can only imagine what they could say about the leo. Conspiracy, wearing a handgun in the commission of a crime etc. The system can be very ruthless sometimes.

From what I read I don't even know if the detective did anything but because my neighbor asked them if they were "f'in stupid" they may have had it in for him. But I would have called them worse than stupid. :rofl:The neighbor was not committing a criminal act but he never expected to be arrested for a false charge. To me it is interesting how the system wants people to "pay into" the system even if they did nothing.

The owner wanted police to believe that was the plate for his car and went as far as committing a crime to get them to think it was.

If someone pays you with a bad check and you believe them that they have the money in their account to cover it are you to blame for their criminal act?

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 23:34
First...Why am I getting involved? I will slap myself later.

Second...What does the registration have to do with the warrant? I don't get it. It's like getting arrested for kicking someone's dog and getting mad because the cop told you it was 10:00 AM when it was really noon.

I just don't get it. I also don't get how you can insist he was lying when all your information is second hand from an angry arrestee.

I often find if I assumed as much about people as people do about me I'd make many more arrests than I do.


I looked at an arrest warrant. Part of the probably cause was the tag and the id of the neighbor. The id technically was wrong because the proper address was not ever mentioned. If information in a warrant id defective that makes the warrant useless. What a lot of people want to do is always say the guy charged was the problem and that is not true in a lot of cases.

The detective lied..plain and simple. I think the neighbor should have responded with force at the beginning because the police really can't protect people who won't fight back. The warrant was not issued first and that is the point people are missing. The tag check was the integral part. But it is interesting to see how things happen in our system. If the detective had written that a tag check indicated the car was not registered to the defendant there would have been no charges. If they charge the detective I will let you guys know. I know so far he was transferred.

JuneyBooney
09-04-2011, 23:43
The owner wanted police to believe that was the plate for his car and went as far as committing a crime to get them to think it was.

If someone pays you with a bad check and you believe them that they have the money in their account to cover it are you to blame for their criminal act?

If a man is standing in a yard and the owner shoots him because he says there is a gun in his hand and then he plants one is it right? No. :whistling: The detective lied about the tag check which manufactured pc. Just look at all the leo and dispatchers that get in trouble for lying and similar incidents as this. I think that the most important thing in a leo is honesty and if the neighbor makes a big stink I would not be surprised to see a termination.

Chico Bill
09-04-2011, 23:52
I looked at an arrest warrant. Part of the probably cause was the tag and the id of the neighbor. The id technically was wrong because the proper address was not ever mentioned. If information in a warrant id defective that makes the warrant useless. What a lot of people want to do is always say the guy charged was the problem and that is not true in a lot of cases.

Probable Cause.

You assume too much. What does his current address have to do with identification? The tag on the car (a false tag put on by your neighbor, which in CA is a misdemeanor criminal offense, meaning your neighbor is an admitted criminal) returned to your neighbor, and the fact it wasn't the correct tag for the car only bolsters the case against him since it suggests he placed false tags on his car in an effort to avoid registration...or maybe...identification.

The detective lied..plain and simple. I think the neighbor should have responded with force at the beginning because the police really can't protect people who won't fight back. The warrant was not issued first and that is the point people are missing. The tag check was the integral part. But it is interesting to see how things happen in our system. If the detective had written that a tag check indicated the car was not registered to the defendant there would have been no charges. If they charge the detective I will let you guys know. I know so far he was transferred.

First, your suggestion to respond with force is stupid and foolhardy. Second, your contention he lied is contradicted by multiple pieces of information you supplied during this thread. Your neighbor placed false plates on his car in an effort to avoid something...Whether it be registration or identification it makes his trustworthiness questionable. In fact, it is a lie. He LIED that his car was registered when it was in fact not. Maybe in the future, if your neighbor would not LIE then you wouldn't have to worry about his LIES getting him in trouble. I find it even more interesting your neighbor had to LIE about his plates during the (coincidental) period of time he was engaged in some sort of dispute with a "dirtbag" which resulted in a report of a crime...While your friend was committing a crime LYING about his plates. When the plates associated with the report of crime returned to your neighbor the officer obtained a legal warrant. I see no lying on his part. I see lots of lying on your neighbor's part.

groovyash
09-04-2011, 23:56
If a man is standing in a yard and the owner shoots him because he says there is a gun in his hand and then he plants one is it right? No. :whistling: The detective lied about the tag check which manufactured pc. Just look at all the leo and dispatchers that get in trouble for lying and similar incidents as this. I think that the most important thing in a leo is honesty and if the neighbor makes a big stink I would not be surprised to see a termination.

No, he did not. The detective provided incorrect information that any reasonable person (Oh that darn standard again) would believe to be correct.

Your neighbor on the other hand knowingly deceived by displaying a tag which he knew was not registered to that vehicle in an attempt to trick people See, now that IS a lie.

The officer took reasonable steps to determine the ownership of the vehicle by running that tag and inferred from it's ownership that the vehicle was registered to the same since as a matter of legality it must be. No attempt to deceive, or misrepresent, he was just tricked by your liar of a neighbor's fraud. Naive perhaps.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 00:10
No, he did not. The detective provided incorrect information that any reasonable person (Oh that darn standard again) would believe to be correct.

Your neighbor on the other hand knowingly deceived by displaying a tag which he knew was not registered to that vehicle in an attempt to trick people See, now that IS a lie.

The officer took reasonable steps to determine the ownership of the vehicle by running that tag and inferred from it's ownership that the vehicle was registered to the same since as a matter of legality it must be. No attempt to deceive, or misrepresent, he was just tricked by your liar of a neighbor's fraud. Naive perhaps.

Go file charges and write a tag number that is incorrect and see what happens...no charges. :whistling: I won't even argue the point anymore. I agree with my neighbor and that is just because the tag was not registered to the man's car and it was a dead tag. I fully agree that the car could have been towed if pulled over but that never happened. Now we won't post what some cops said privately to my neighbor about the detective because it is bad. :rofl:Have a great evening.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 00:15
Probable Cause.

You assume too much. What does his current address have to do with identification? The tag on the car (a false tag put on by your neighbor, which in CA is a misdemeanor criminal offense, meaning your neighbor is an admitted criminal) returned to your neighbor, and the fact it wasn't the correct tag for the car only bolsters the case against him since it suggests he placed false tags on his car in an effort to avoid registration...or maybe...identification.



First, your suggestion to respond with force is stupid and foolhardy. Second, your contention he lied is contradicted by multiple pieces of information you supplied during this thread. Your neighbor placed false plates on his car in an effort to avoid something...Whether it be registration or identification it makes his trustworthiness questionable. In fact, it is a lie. He LIED that his car was registered when it was in fact not. Maybe in the future, if your neighbor would not LIE then you wouldn't have to worry about his LIES getting him in trouble. I find it even more interesting your neighbor had to LIE about his plates during the (coincidental) period of time he was engaged in some sort of dispute with a "dirtbag" which resulted in a report of a crime...While your friend was committing a crime LYING about his plates. When the plates associated with the report of crime returned to your neighbor the officer obtained a legal warrant. I see no lying on his part. I see lots of lying on your neighbor's part.

But what you are saying is wrong. If a cop writes down that a tag comes back to a car and it doesn't that is a lie. I am not going to even respond but the detective did lie and all I am saying is that if someone is messing with you I can understand why people become violent. Getting arrested is not the same as going for a ride in the park. :rofl:He took a car to a shop. I will let you guys know what happens but I have seen so many cases be a waste of time in courts. Have a nice evening and great Labor day.

Sharky7
09-05-2011, 00:43
You are making this way more complicated and messy than it really is.

The license plate that was used in the incident was BEARING/DISPLAYING a registration plate that registers to your neighbor.

The detective obviously ran the registration plate number provided by the victim and then tracked down your neighbor since the plate belonged to him. Sounds like he worded the complaint wrong, but there is no intentional lie. I feel like you are trying to spin this story pretty hard - a story that you are getting 3rd and 4th hand. Your neighbor is probably embellishing the whole thing to you anyways.

Where there is smoke there is fire. Give me 30 minutes, 2 chairs, and a Miranda waiver form, and I'll interview your neighbor and come back with the real story :thumbsup:

ateamer
09-05-2011, 00:55
Just because the DA chose not to file charges does not mean that the detective lied, or anything else. It just means that they didn't think they could get a conviction at a jury trial, because it's one loser's word against another. DA's don't want to waste time in court on that crap, and often don't file, even though there is probable cause. They need proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 00:58
You are making this way more complicated and messy than it really is.

The license plate that was used in the incident was BEARING/DISPLAYING a registration plate that registers to your neighbor.

The detective obviously ran the registration plate number provided by the victim and then tracked down your neighbor since the plate belonged to him. Sounds like he worded the complaint wrong, but there is no intentional lie. I feel like you are trying to spin this story pretty hard - a story that you are getting 3rd and 4th hand. Your neighbor is probably embellishing the whole thing to you anyways.

Where there is smoke there is fire. Give me 30 minutes, 2 chairs, and a Miranda waiver form, and I'll interview your neighbor and come back with the real story :thumbsup:

So what you are saying is that if he wrote that a tag check indicated the vehicle was registered to the man and it was not that it is not a lie? That sounds like doubletalk to me. :rofl: I read the charges and I read the man's record that told the story to the cops. He is a felon who actually burned down his uncle's home. They had a great witness. It sounds more to me like a detective that got a woody for a guy and didn't do his job.

I agree normally about smoke but I have seen liars in all fields. The problem is that I keep seeing liars promoted in all fields. :wow: Just look at politics. :rofl:The address given was not even the man's address so it seems fishy to me. I would like to see the detective examined by other leo and see why he did what he did. I think what happened is that the scofflaw goes in, files charges, then they are referred to detective, he fails to do his job because he wants the guy bad and then he tells some fibs or does not run any checks to verify the info given. It may be recklessness but a 28-29 is the simplest thing in the world to run and verify from what I have seen.

Sharky7
09-05-2011, 01:07
He did check the 10-28....it came back to your neighbor because it was his old plate. Your neighbor was driving the car. Those are the facts. He obviously checked it, that is how he got your neighbors name.

Detective then identified your neighbor as a suspect or offender. Was your neighbor interviewed? Photo line up?

Sharky7
09-05-2011, 01:10
You say it sounds fishy due to the addresses being different. Didn't the address the detective us was your neighbors old address? Detective probably got the address off old plate.

You say he wanted your neighbor bad....why? What would personally motivate this detective to want him so bad? Your neighbor a career criminal?

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 01:14
He did check the 10-28....it came back to your neighbor because it was his old plate. Your neighbor was driving the car. Those are the facts. He obviously checked it, that is how he got your neighbors name.

Detective then identified your neighbor as a suspect or offender. Was your neighbor interviewed? Photo line up?

He was never interviewed. The detective did lie because the magistrate even admitted that the man came in and filed charges. I feel sorry for the guy because I don't think he will ever see a dime. He is the wrong color to get money and they don't get money from the law around here. :whistling:

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 01:17
You say it sounds fishy due to the addresses being different. Didn't the address the detective us was your neighbors old address? Detective probably got the address off old plate.

You say he wanted your neighbor bad....why? What would personally motivate this detective to want him so bad? Your neighbor a career criminal?

The zipcode was not right so he didn't get it from the plate. That was why it was fishy. I think the detective was careless at the least and I will ask more questions in the coming weeks. Neighbor has a meeting with upper leo and county so we will keep our ears and eyes open for info on what is happening. Pretty interesting in my opinion.

Sharky7
09-05-2011, 01:19
He was never interviewed. The detective did lie because the magistrate even admitted that the man came in and filed charges. I feel sorry for the guy because I don't think he will ever see a dime. He is the wrong color to get money and they don't get money from the law around here. :whistling:

I am still really trying to understand this "lie"

So, because he said "the plate registers to the vehicle which register to the offender" instead of "the plate on the vehicle registers to the offender" it s a lie?

You realize the plate on the vehicle DID register to your neighbor, right?

groovyash
09-05-2011, 04:34
So what you are saying is that if he wrote that a tag check indicated the vehicle was registered to the man and it was not that it is not a lie?

Humor me for a second, Every time in your life you have said something that was not correct was it a lie? In grade school was every math problem you got wrong a lie? The officer used sound deductive reasoning to conclude that the car was registered to the man and it turned out only the tag was.

The officer's approach to determining the car was registered by running the tag would be considered a sound method by any reasonable person yet for reasons outside of the officer's control (i.e. the criminal act of fraud by your neighbor) the results were inaccurate.

Is it not reasonable to make the following conclusion?

Fire is hot.
The paper is on fire.
Therefore the paper is hot.

So if questioned on how you knew the paper was hot you would answer "It was on fire and fire is hot"

Well

The tag is registered to x
the tag is on this car which by law must match
the car is registered to x

is just as valid

Before you come up with some cockamamie example of how a paper on fire may not be hot let's keep in mind that the standard here is what is reasonable to believe not what some bizarre set of circumstances (Like fraud) can potentially create in some obscure occurrence because that is not the standard of proof.

Mark me on board also as being strongly hesitant to believe that this was the reason the case was dismissed also as opposed to the "victim" being a flake.

RussP
09-05-2011, 06:44
The charges had at the end that "a check on the tag number indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant". The car was not registered to anyone. the old tag was registered to the defendant's old car. The old tag was placed upon the car to take the car to the shop where it was sitting when the man made a false claim. The lie is that the family sedan was never registered. In addition, the address given was not the correct address but the man's parent's home which was on the old tag. Does that make sense to you. The man that was harassing the neighbor had two open warrants on him, one from my neighbor and one from another man he had threatened over the phone. What ticked my neighbor off the most was that the detective lied and then the neighbor was arrested on lies by the law.Okay, bear with me here. I am still trying to connect the dots. Some of these will appear redundant. That's for a reason. Please just respond "yes" or "no" to the following:

Did your neighbor file first for a magistrate warrant against his alleged harasser.

Did your neighbor first report the harasser to the police?

Did the harasser filed for a warrant in retaliation.

Did a third person filed a separate warrant against the harasser.

Was the new family style sedan used in the offense alleged by the harasser?

Was the TransAm plate number a part of the harasser's complaint?

Was the TransAm plate number used to identify your neighbor in connection to the alleged offense?

Was a description of the new family style sedan used to connect your neighbor to the alleged offense?

Did the harasser's complaint allege that the new family style sedan was used in the offense stated in the complaint?

Did your neighbor drive the new family style sedan on public roads after the 30-day temporary plates expired before driving it to the dealer?

If yes, did your neighbor use the TransAm plates to do so?

Did the harasser's complaint include your neighbor's name?

Did the harasser's complaint include your neighbor's current address.

Is that address the same as is on his current driver's license?

Was the zip code provided by the harasser incorrect?

Was your neighbor's old address on the harasser's complaint?

Was the zip code for the old address incorrect?

Was the zip code on the harasser's complaint the current zip code?

Was the zip code on the harasser's complaint the old zip code?

Was there more than one warrant sworn out against your neighbor?

The new family style sedan was brand new.

Your neighbor washed the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin, destroying it.

Your neighbor did not contact the dealer for a replacement, or any other documentation to prove ownership.

Thanks for your patience.

4949shooter
09-05-2011, 06:45
1. An incorrect address, or zip code an a warrant does not invalidate said warrant. Have you ever seen a warrant typed out to John/Jane Doe because the true identity of the defendant had not yet been determined? How about people with multiple addresses? People that change their residence but don't list their address change on their driver license? The officer puts the old address from the driver license on the warrant instead of the new address. This warrant is still valid. Your buddy, who may be the legitimate victim of a falsely reported crime, is barking up the wrong tree by blaming the detective for his troubles.

2. The detective used the license plate provided to him to track down and identify the defendant. This is basic police work. Again, this does not invalidate the warrant.

3. Your buddy, by using a fictitious license plate on his new car contributed to his own problems.

4. The detective may have erred in the wording on his report. As mentioned, this is not a criminal or terminable offense. If the detective intentionally lied, then yes it is. However, this would have to be proved, if it is even true. The detective will be covered under the "Good Faith Doctrine" if he made an error. Your buddy may sue and win, or he may not win a dime.

RussP
09-05-2011, 06:52
In Maryland the address has to match the driver's license. In Va and other states it does not have to match on each car and the states make money off of people registering cars in their states like North Carolina and Va etc.http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/titling.asp
Titling a Vehicle in Virginia

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv177.pdf
To title a vehicle in Virginia, you must show one proof of address. If you
have a Virginia driverís license, learnerís permit, ID card or title, you will
not be required to show proof of address.

You are not required to be a Virginia resident to title a vehicle in
Virginia: however, you must show proof of your residential address.
The name and address on the document must be the same as it
appears on the application for title - a post office box or business
address is not acceptable.

OLY-M4gery
09-05-2011, 07:01
Each plate is registered to one or more specific person(s), and is listed to a specific vehicle.

If the address on the reistration is not your actual address, that's a violation.

If you truly have more than one address, and the police use the address listed on one of your vehicles, they have used an address the REGISTERED OWNER OF THE VEHICLE claimed was a truthful address.

If you put plates on a vehicle they are not registered to, that is also a traffic violation.

When the officer said "I was given registration # 123XYZ, and a registration check listed the vehicle as a 1987 Pontiac Grand Prix, registered to mr XYZ residing at 123 Main St".

It is not a defense to say, I put those plates on the vehicle that I refuse to pay sales taxes on, or register, while displaying unauthorized registration that lists an inccorrect address, so I feel the detective lied by including any of the information from a license check.

Your "neighbor" is claiming that others have lied because they relied on the inaccurate information he has provided to the dept of motor vehicles, while driving around in a car that isn't registered, or titled, while displaying fraudulent registration.

Make up all the "what if's" and "how 'bout's", but your "neighbor" is the one doing all the lying, swindling and cheating, not anyone else.

Patchman
09-05-2011, 07:21
http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/titling.asp
Titling a Vehicle in Virginia

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv177.pdf
To title a vehicle in Virginia, you must show one proof of address. If you
have a Virginia driver’s license, learner’s permit, ID card or title, you will
not be required to show proof of address.

You are not required to be a Virginia resident to title a vehicle in
Virginia: however, you must show proof of your residential address.
The name and address on the document must be the same as it
appears on the application for title - a post office box or business
address is not acceptable.

Let's say today a person goes to a VA DMV and gets a DL and registers a car to, say, 1313 Mockingbird Lane. Then tomorrow that person moves to 666 Hellsgate Road. DMV is not going to know about the move.

And let's say five years from now the person goes back to VA DMV and updates his address-of-record to 666 Hellsgate Road for his DL only.

I don't think VA DMV will backsearch all his previous vehicle registrations and automatically update those address. Especially if the registration is expired.

So somebody running the expired registration/license plate (even after the DL is updated) will get the 1313 Mockingbird La address.

This seems to be the root of the neighbor's complaint.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 07:25
I am still really trying to understand this "lie"

So, because he said "the plate registers to the vehicle which register to the offender" instead of "the plate on the vehicle registers to the offender" it s a lie?

You realize the plate on the vehicle DID register to your neighbor, right?

The plate on the vehicle was a dead tag that did register to an old vehicle the neighbor had owned. But the car that it was on had never been registered. The cop lied when he said the tag number indicated the car was registered to the defendant. It is a lie or a muck up and there should have been no warrant. The judge even said that when the case was dismissed. I think we all try to justify an officer's actions but the information was still not right any way you look at it.

OLY-M4gery
09-05-2011, 07:31
The plate on the vehicle was a dead tag that did register to an old vehicle the neighbor had owned. But the car that it was on had never been registered. The cop lied when he said the tag number indicated the car was registered to the defendant. It is a lie or a muck up and there should have been no warrant. The judge even said that when the case was dismissed. I think we all try to justify an officer's actions but the information was still not right any way you look at it.

Wrong.

The tag did indicate it was registered to your "neighbor".

The tag isn't magic. It doesn't change what car it is listed to when it is placed on another car.

The tag listed to the defendant, who had illegally attached a different car to the plate.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 07:33
Humor me for a second, Every time in your life you have said something that was not correct was it a lie? In grade school was every math problem you got wrong a lie? The officer used sound deductive reasoning to conclude that the car was registered to the man and it turned out only the tag was.

The officer's approach to determining the car was registered by running the tag would be considered a sound method by any reasonable person yet for reasons outside of the officer's control (i.e. the criminal act of fraud by your neighbor) the results were inaccurate.

Is it not reasonable to make the following conclusion?

Fire is hot.
The paper is on fire.
Therefore the paper is hot.

So if questioned on how you knew the paper was hot you would answer "It was on fire and fire is hot"

Well

The tag is registered to x
the tag is on this car which by law must match
the car is registered to x

is just as valid

Before you come up with some cockamamie example of how a paper on fire may not be hot let's keep in mind that the standard here is what is reasonable to believe not what some bizarre set of circumstances (Like fraud) can potentially create in some obscure occurrence because that is not the standard of proof.

Mark me on board also as being strongly hesitant to believe that this was the reason the case was dismissed also as opposed to the "victim" being a flake.

I fully agree with you if the cop had not stated that the tag check indicated the car was registered to the defendant. If he had done his job he would have found that the car was not registered, checked with the neighbor, interviewed him, gone to the shop and then arrested the man that told the story to gain charges for a false warrant. The problem with the system is that a lot of people think "arrests" are ok with people. They are not. What I would have done as a detective would be run the tag and see if it matched the description of what the man wrote. Then, go from there. The zipcode on the warrant shows that somewhere along the line some wrong information came about and the funny thing is that the application for original charges is gone. So i think the theory "cover your butt" is being done. :rofl:

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 07:36
Wrong.

The tag did indicate it was registered to your "neighbor".

The tag isn't magic. It doesn't change what car it is listed to when it is placed on another car.

The tag listed to the defendant, who had illegally attached a different car to the plate.


The statement was "a tag check indicated the vehicle is registered to the defendant". That statement is not accurate. The neighbor had never registered the car. No other argument can be made on that statement. An innocent kid was arrested and has shown signs of ptsd. His family has spent tons of money to fight nonsense and that is not right.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 07:39
Let's say today a person goes to a VA DMV and gets a DL and registers a car to, say, 1313 Mockingbird Lane. Then tomorrow that person moves to 666 Hellsgate Road. DMV is not going to know about the move.

And let's say five years from now the person goes back to VA DMV and updates his address-of-record to 666 Hellsgate Road for his DL only.

I don't think VA DMV will backsearch all his previous vehicle registrations and automatically update those address. Especially if the registration is expired.

So somebody running the expired registration/license plate (even after the DL is updated) will get the 1313 Mockingbird La address.

This seems to be the root of the neighbor's complaint.

The driver's license address is updated every day by DMV. The sergeant that was in charge of the arrest told the neighbor that he thought something was wrong and will testify against the detective. I guess my point for this is that the detective didn't do his job. A street cop has limited time to check facts etc and his/her decisions are made much faster so you can give them more leeway for errors. Detectives are supposed to gain facts and then go from there.

OLY-M4gery
09-05-2011, 07:42
The statement was "a tag check indicated the vehicle is registered to the defendant". That statement is not accurate. The neighbor had never registered the car. No other argument can be made on that statement. An innocent kid was arrested and has shown signs of ptsd. His family has spent tons of money to fight nonsense and that is not right.

Still wrong.

When a plate is run, it list the person it is registered to and the car it is registered to.

That info doesn't change if you illegally place the plate on another vehicle.

So if your plate belongs on a '78 Dodge Dart, and you put it on a 1999 Subaru WRX................ The plate still list to you, on your '78 Dodge Dart.

Saying that the plate lists to you, on a '78 Dodge Dart, is what the records reflect, even it is illegally placed on another vehicle.

Patchman
09-05-2011, 07:45
The statement was "a tag check indicated the vehicle is registered to the defendant". That statement is not accurate. The neighbor had never registered the car. No other argument can be made on that statement. An innocent kid was arrested and has shown signs of ptsd. His family has spent tons of money to fight nonsense and that is not right.

This is starting to get silly.

Five years ago If I committed a crime, and my name at that time was "Joe Patchman." The police makes out an arrest warrant for "Joe Patchman."

In the meantime I legally changed my name to "Sid Patchman."

If the police didn't know I legally changed my name, can I be arrested today under the "Joe Patchman" warrant?

OLY-M4gery
09-05-2011, 07:51
This is starting to get silly.

Five years ago If I committed a crime, and my name at that time was "Joe Patchman." The police makes out an arrest warrant for "Joe Patchman."

In the meantime I legally changed my name to "Sid Patchman."

If the police didn't know I legally changed my name, can I be arrested today under the "Joe Patchman" warrant?

No, it would all be lies, vicious intentional lies.

There goes your Probably Cause, even if you are wearing a brand new hat.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 07:52
Okay, bear with me here. I am still trying to connect the dots. Some of these will appear redundant. That's for a reason. Please just respond "yes" or "no" to the following:
Did your neighbor file first for a magistrate warrant against his alleged harasser.

Yes

Did your neighbor first report the harasser to the police?

Yes

Did the harasser filed for a warrant in retaliation.

Yes

Did a third person filed a separate warrant against the harasser.

Yes

Was the new family style sedan used in the offense alleged by the harasser?

Yes but it never happened

Was the TransAm plate number a part of the harasser's complaint?

Yes

Was the TransAm plate number used to identify your neighbor in connection to the alleged offense?

Unknown, it was not mentioned in the warrant. The man wrote charges for the magistrate who then referred them to the detective. That in my opinion should have been a red flag to the detective that something was going on.

Was a description of the new family style sedan used to connect your neighbor to the alleged offense?

Unknown but I believe yes

Did the harasser's complaint allege that the new family style sedan was used in the offense stated in the complaint?

Yes

Did your neighbor drive the new family style sedan on public roads after the 30-day temporary plates expired before driving it to the dealer?

Unknown but I believe yes

If yes, did your neighbor use the TransAm plates to do so?

Yes

Did the harasser's complaint include your neighbor's name?

Yes

Did the harasser's complaint include your neighbor's current address.

No

Is that address the same as is on his current driver's license?

Detective never mentioned current address at all in complaint.

Was the zip code provided by the harasser incorrect?

Yes

Was your neighbor's old address on the harasser's complaint?

Yes

Was the zip code for the old address incorrect?

Yes

Was the zip code on the harasser's complaint the current zip code?

No

Was the zip code on the harasser's complaint the old zip code?

It was a zipcode of an unrelated area

Was there more than one warrant sworn out against your neighbor?

Not at that time

The new family style sedan was brand new.

Yes, brand new car

Your neighbor washed the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin, destroying it.

Yes

Your neighbor did not contact the dealer for a replacement, or any other documentation to prove ownership.

Yes but he got that later so he could register the car
Thanks for your patience.

No problem. What this case shows is that revenge warrants are easy to come by and if the person places things like "gun" in the false statements then detectives etc may sometimes shortchange the investigation.

Patchman
09-05-2011, 07:53
The driver's license address is updated every day by DMV. The sergeant that was in charge of the arrest told the neighbor that he thought something was wrong and will testify against the detective. I guess my point for this is that the detective didn't do his job. A street cop has limited time to check facts etc and his/her decisions are made much faster so you can give them more leeway for errors. Detectives are supposed to gain facts and then go from there.

Yeah, the DL informatuon is updated everyday. And nobody is saying the DL address is wrong, correct?

It's the old address on the old plate that wasn't updated, correct? As I posted, VA DMV is NOT going to backcheck all old registrations and automatically update information.

It is the job of the motorist (your neighbor) to inform DMV that the address on his old license plate/registration needs to be updated as well.

With due respect, but it's my experience that many people choose not to inform DMV of changes in residences in a timely manner because somehow they feel it will be harder for the police to find them should they get into an accident or something and decide to skataddle.

OLY-M4gery
09-05-2011, 07:57
Yeah, the DL informatuon is updated everyday. And nobody is saying the DL address is wrong, correct?

It's the old address on the old plate that wasn't updated, correct? As I posted, VA DMV is NOT going to backcheck all old registrations and automatically update information.

It is the job of the motorist (your neighbor) to inform DMV that the address on his old license plate/registration needs to be updated as well.

With due respect, but it's my experience that many people choose not to inform DMV of changes in residences in a timely manner because somehow they feel it will be harder for the police to find them should they get into an accident or something and decide to skataddle.

Or try to argue the police "messed up" because the address information wasn't correct.............................. Even though it is the registered owner of each vehicle that is responsible for notifying the DMV of their up to date address.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 08:02
Yeah, the DL informatuon is updated everyday. And nobody is saying the DL address is wrong, correct?

It's the old address on the old plate that wasn't updated, correct? As I posted, VA DMV is NOT going to backcheck all old registrations and automatically update information.

It is the job of the motorist (your neighbor) to inform DMV that the address on his old license plate/registration needs to be updated as well.

With due respect, but it's my experience that many people choose not to inform DMV of changes in residences in a timely manner because somehow they feel it will be harder for the police to find them should they get into an accident or something and decide to skataddle.

DMV had the correct address for years. The old tag was dead but from what I understand the dmv had all the info. I think it was just a cluster of sloppiness on the detective's part. That is what we will never know. I agree about people taking off etc. That does happen too.

RussP
09-05-2011, 08:25
No problem. What this case shows is that revenge warrants are easy to come by and if the person places things like "gun" in the false statements then detectives etc may sometimes shortchange the investigation.Continuing with "yes" or "no" answers, please...

Did the harasser's complaint mention the word "gun"?

In your response to my questions your said:Q: Was the TransAm plate number a part of the harasser's complaint?

A: Yes

Q: Was the TransAm plate number used to identify your neighbor in connection to the alleged offense?

A: Unknown, it was not mentioned in the warrant. The man wrote charges for the magistrate who then referred them to the detective. That in my opinion should have been a red flag to the detective that something was going on.Okay, here is where we need clarification. First you say it was part of the harasser's complaint used by the magistrate to issue the warrant, then you say it is not in the warrant. Was the complaint not attached to the warrant?

The sequence in the magistrate's court is a person first files a complaint. The magistrate reviews the facts in the complaint. The facts are presented as a sworn statement made under oath before the magistrate. If the magistrate decides that probable cause exists, he issues an arrest warrant which is given to the police for execution.

This is where your story differs. You say the detective filled out information in the complaint. Did the detective actually appear before the magistrate along with the harasser before the magistrate issued the arrest warrant?

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 08:35
Continuing with "yes" or "no" answers, please...

Did the harasser's complaint mention the word "gun"?

Yes

In your response to my questions your said:Q: Was the TransAm plate number a part of the harasser's complaint?

A: Yes

Q: Was the TransAm plate number used to identify your neighbor in connection to the alleged offense?

A: Unknown, it was not mentioned in the warrant. The man wrote charges for the magistrate who then referred them to the detective. That in my opinion should have been a red flag to the detective that something was going on.Okay, here is where we need clarification. First you say it was part of the harasser's complaint used by the magistrate to issue the warrant, then you say it is not in the warrant. Was the complaint not attached to the warrant?

The original complaint that the man wrote was gone and then there was an application for charges field by the detective as I understand it and by looking at the documents.

The sequence in the magistrate's court is a person first files a complaint. The magistrate reviews the facts in the complaint. The facts are presented as a sworn statement made under oath before the magistrate. If the magistrate decides that probable cause exists, he issues an arrest warrant which is given to the police for execution.

This is where your story differs. You say the detective filled out information in the complaint. Did the detective actually appear before the magistrate along with the harasser before the magistrate issued the arrest warrant?

From the documents and by looking at everything the man filed charges with the neighbor's name and all the information and then the detective reviewed it and filed on his own. I think the magistrate may have had a gut feeling something was wrong from how the story looks on paper and referred it. I don't think the harasser appeared at the same time as the detective.

DaBigBR
09-05-2011, 08:38
I tried to read the whole thread, but only made it through the first 40 posts.

The officer didn't intentionally lie on the charge. They're not going to discipline him, they're not going to transfer him, they're not going to retrain him, and nobody is going to hook him for kidnapping. A judge found probable cause for the warrant...that's pretty much instant qualified immunity.

As best as I can understand you feel that the officer "lied" because the plate did not belong on the vehicle, but did belong to the SUSPECT who was arrested (let's stop calling him a victim right now) and because of something with the address (zip code)? HARMLESS ERROR.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 08:48
I tried to read the whole thread, but only made it through the first 40 posts.

The officer didn't intentionally lie on the charge. They're not going to discipline him, they're not going to transfer him, they're not going to retrain him, and nobody is going to hook him for kidnapping. A judge found probable cause for the warrant...that's pretty much instant qualified immunity.

As best as I can understand you feel that the officer "lied" because the plate did not belong on the vehicle, but did belong to the SUSPECT who was arrested (let's stop calling him a victim right now) and because of something with the address (zip code)? HARMLESS ERROR.

Yes, the detective was transferred but you are right, In our system of law an innocent person can be charged and placed in handcuffs even if they truly did nothing wrong. Our system gives immunity for most police if it was within the scope of their authority but it does also give recourse if they determine that the detective did lie. We all try and think that arrests are valid and from what I see that is not always the case. The neighbor's dad spoke with the chief and he admitted that what should have been done was not for some reason so we will see what happens. The first 40 posts probably had it right on the money. :rofl:

RussP
09-05-2011, 09:30
From the documents and by looking at everything the man filed charges with the neighbor's name and all the information and then the detective reviewed it and filed on his own. I think the magistrate may have had a gut feeling something was wrong from how the story looks on paper and referred it. I don't think the harasser appeared at the same time as the detective. On the arrest warrant, who was listed as the complainant?

RussP
09-05-2011, 09:35
Yes, the detective was transferred Why was he transferred and to where was he transferred?The neighbor's dad spoke with the chief and he admitted that what should have been done was not for some reason so we will see what happens.What exactly did the chief say should have been done?

What police department was this?

Sharky7
09-05-2011, 09:40
Yes, the detective was transferred but you are right, In our system of law an innocent person can be charged and placed in handcuffs even if they truly did nothing wrong. Our system gives immunity for most police if it was within the scope of their authority but it does also give recourse if they determine that the detective did lie. We all try and think that arrests are valid and from what I see that is not always the case. The neighbor's dad spoke with the chief and he admitted that what should have been done was not for some reason so we will see what happens. The first 40 posts probably had it right on the money. :rofl:

How are you qualified to determine if the arrest was valid or not?

Did you interview the victim? You only heard the side of your neighbor.

Fill us in....What exactly is the "story"? What did the victim claim happen and what did your neighbor claim happen?

steveksux
09-05-2011, 09:42
Sounds like det ran the tag, got the name he was expecting and didn't notice the car was different, or didn't bother checking.

Simple as that. No lie. No improbably cause as a result. :whistling:

Randy

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 09:50
How are you qualified to determine if the arrest was valid or not?

Did you interview the victim? You only heard the side of your neighbor.

Fill us in....What exactly is the "story"? What did the victim claim happen and what did your neighbor claim happen?

the scumball was harassing the neighbor and his family and other people just for fun. Then my neighbor believed that being non violent and filing charges would stop the harassment but anyone who believes this is wrong. The man was a welfare recipient who had a long criminal history. It was a revenge warrant after charges were filed by the neighbor. I am qualified because I went to school for it. :whistling: Yes, in my opinion the neighbor should have not been arrested but from the many cases I have seen it does happen a lot more than we want to admit.

Neighbor said nothing happened but it was just more harassment meant to cost them money. Makes sense to me. Get a group of thugs together, find a religious family that won't fight physically and torment them. I think they call them "sitting ducks".

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 09:51
Sounds like det ran the tag, got the name he was expecting and didn't notice the car was different, or didn't bother checking.

Simple as that. No lie. No improbably cause as a result. :whistling:

Randy

You could be right. Or he just didn't care. :shocked:

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 09:53
On the arrest warrant, who was listed as the complainant?

The detective was the complainant and that is what exposes him to liability.

steveksux
09-05-2011, 09:53
You could be right. Or he just didn't care. :shocked:Could be he decided to give the neighbor a break and not pile on charges over slapping wrong plate on the wrong car, too...

Hard to tell.

Randy

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 09:57
Why was he transferred and to where was he transferred?What exactly did the chief say should have been done?

What police department was this?

He was removed as a detective and sent back to patrol and I think it was so far three days or so suspension but I am not sure about that. Chief admitted the car was not registered and was dumbfounded as to why the detective did that. I will try and look at the rest of the paperwork when I visit them this evening.

JuneyBooney
09-05-2011, 10:03
Could be he decided to give the neighbor a break and not pile on charges over slapping wrong plate on the wrong car, too...

Hard to tell.

Randy

I don't know if they even thought about the tag because from what I understand the car was in a dealership lot the entire time. I have no idea but I have seen cars towed for improper registration. But most of those tickets get tossed if the people fix the tags.

Sharky7
09-05-2011, 10:06
the scumball was harassing the neighbor and his family and other people just for fun. Then my neighbor believed that being non violent and filing charges would stop the harassment but anyone who believes this is wrong. The man was a welfare recipient who had a long criminal history. It was a revenge warrant after charges were filed by the neighbor. I am qualified because I went to school for it. :whistling: Yes, in my opinion the neighbor should have not been arrested but from the many cases I have seen it does happen a lot more than we want to admit.

Neighbor said nothing happened but it was just more harassment meant to cost them money. Makes sense to me. Get a group of thugs together, find a religious family that won't fight physically and torment them. I think they call them "sitting ducks".

We need actual details, not a vague summary. When you say harassment, what does that mean to you. What did he do to harass? What did he accuse your neighbor of doing?

What was the charge....What was said....Where did it occur....Did it become physical....was there threats of being physical...what was said? None of us were there, you need to be detailed on the actual incident in in reference to the charge.

RussP
09-05-2011, 10:54
The detective was the complainant and that is what exposes him to liability.So the guy harassing your neighbor went to the police and the police, after investigating, went to the magistrate for the arrest warrant. Is that correct?

RussP
09-05-2011, 10:57
...I am qualified because I went to school for it. :whistling:So you really didn't go to school for it?

RussP
09-05-2011, 11:00
The man was a welfare recipient...How is this relevant?

RussP
09-05-2011, 11:02
The man ... had a long criminal history.What exactly were his offenses and when?

RussP
09-05-2011, 11:08
...It was a revenge warrant after charges were filed by the neighbor.You said the detective was the complainant on the warrant. If the harasser was not the complainant on the warrant, how could it be a revenge warrant?

Again, what crimes were alleged by your neighbor and what crimes were alleged by the harasser?

merlynusn
09-05-2011, 11:38
Okay, that took me way too long and too much of a headache to read. Basically what I got was the harasser went and got the warrant. The Magistrate did NOT issue the warrant and referred it to the detective. The harasser gave the name and tag number of your friend. When the detective ran it, he got the name he was expecting and didn't check the car. Thus he said "the car was registered to the defendant."

I have made mistakes when running tags before. I have seen fictitious tags when they weren't and seen regular tags when they were fictitious. I have pulled over people for reading their tag wrong. Is it malicious? No it is not. It is a simple mistake. I correct it and move on. If I pulled someone over because I made a mistake, I just say "sorry, I made a mistake, have a nice day."

As for the zip code crap. None of that makes the slightest bit of difference. I have taken out warrants based on an address that 30 minutes later we find a newer one. Does that make the warrant invalid? no it does not. For those people who "don't have an address" do I sometimes put their parent's address on it. Absolutely. Does that make the warrant invalid? No it does not.

Your friend will not get the feds to arrest the detective for kidnapping or any other bs. He's been punished internally for not being thorough. That's pretty much it. I'd tell your friend to quit looking for a payday lawsuit against the detective and go after the guy who actually got him falsely arrested.

4949shooter
09-05-2011, 11:52
Your friend will not get the feds to arrest the detective for kidnapping or any other bs. He's been punished internally for not being thorough. That's pretty much it. I'd tell your friend to quit looking for a payday lawsuit against the detective and go after the guy who actually got him falsely arrested.

The problem is, the OP tells us the man who got his friend arrested is a welfare recipient. So, suing him would not be lucrative. In order to get a large enough pay day, he has to go after the cop who was only trying to do his job.

scottydl
09-05-2011, 13:05
In our system of law an innocent person can be charged and placed in handcuffs even if they truly did nothing wrong.

Well yeah. The burden of proof for police is "probable cause" and not "100% certainty" ... if it was the latter then nobody would ever get arrested. The court process exists for people like your friend to prove their innocence. It sounds like he'll be able to do that, or already has. So the system worked for him.

If he is having PTSD issues over a one-time minor arrest, I'm thinking there is something else behind that and he needs to get some help. A similar thing happened to a friend of ours and she was locked up for several hours over a mistaken identity warrant... she turned out fine and doesn't harbor any ill will toward the officers who were doing their job with the information they had at the time.

I can't explain how the det lied or came up with the info.

This is what your friend would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And it sounds like he has no grounds to do so.

The detective was the complainant and that is what exposes him to liability.

Not personally liable, unless that intent to purposefully lie is proven. His agency will be the one paying the bill (or actually his agency's insurance company) if your friend sues civilly.

ateamer
09-05-2011, 13:31
Juney, you and northleaf ought to hook up. It'd be a match made in heaven.

Mayhem like Me
09-05-2011, 19:40
I don't believe the story as told..It's really a rejected Quentin Tarantino screenplay called " El Tago"

lawman800
09-05-2011, 19:41
I thought we beat this to death... Running NCIC or even DMV or other local checks without a valid reason is a misdemeanor and has landed people in front of a review board for termination. DOJ audits the CLETS/NLETS pretty regularly and they double check each entry to make sure there is a case number or officer initiated investigation to validate the use.

RussP
09-05-2011, 20:23
He was removed as a detective and sent back to patrol and I think it was so far three days or so suspension but I am not sure about that. Chief admitted the car was not registered and was dumbfounded as to why the detective did that. I will try and look at the rest of the paperwork when I visit them this evening.Look forward to your report...

RussP
09-05-2011, 20:25
I don't believe the story as told..It's really a rejected Quentin Tarantino screenplay called " El Tago"There are a few holes and inconsistencies. :cool:

JuneyBooney
09-06-2011, 10:34
I thought we beat this to death... Running NCIC or even DMV or other local checks without a valid reason is a misdemeanor and has landed people in front of a review board for termination. DOJ audits the CLETS/NLETS pretty regularly and they double check each entry to make sure there is a case number or officer initiated investigation to validate the use.

You are right. The tag check was not done and they are investigating. how and why it happened. I will get more details as they become available but the tag was a key issue according to the department brass.

RussP
09-06-2011, 14:32
Before you go, JuneyBooney, what were the allegations made by your neighbor and his "harasser" in filing for their respective arrest warrants?

ray9898
09-06-2011, 15:46
Either I missed a key fact or this story just does not make any sense.

Lets take this scenario:

I speak to Joe Blow and he tells me Dave Smith tried to run him over in his new red Ford truck. I find the red Ford truck and it has tag ABC123 on it. I check that tag and it is registered to Dave Smith although it lists a green Honda Civic.

Now when I write that report I can describe that situation in multiple ways but one thing is not in question. That tag on that vehicle belongs to Dave Smith even though he may not have updated the DMV on the vehicle switch, that plate is still registered to him. So if I described it as "the vehicle was registered to Dave Smith" instead of "the plate on the vehicle was registered to Dave Smith" since he displayed a tag on the vehicle assigned to him by the DMV, it does not change the meaning a reasonable person can infer from it which goes to establish probable cause. The vehicle was linked to Dave Smith, describe it either way and you still have the same supporting evidence for ownership.

It is not like the judge would be "well he had not registered the vehicle with the DMV so we cannot link it to the defendant." It can be linked to him by the plate he displayed, evidence he was in possession of the vehicle, and other evidence of ownership.

4949shooter
09-06-2011, 16:15
Either I missed a key fact or this story just does not make any sense.

Lets take this scenario:

I speak to Joe Blow and he tells me Dave Smith tried to run him over in his new red Ford truck. I find the red Ford truck and it has tag ABC123 on it. I check that tag and it is registered to Dave Smith although it lists a green Honda Civic.

Now when I write that report I can describe that situation in multiple ways but one thing is not in question. That tag on that vehicle belongs to Dave Smith, although he may not have updated the DMV on the vehicle switch that plate is still registered to him. So if I described it as "the vehicle was registered to Dave Smith" instead of "the plate on the vehicle was registered to Dave Smith" due to him displaying a tag on the vehicle assigned to him by the DMV it does not change the meaning a reasonable person can infer from it which goes to establish probable cause. The vehicle was linked to Dave Smith, describe it either way and you still have the same supporting evidence for.

It is not like the judge would be "well he had not registered the vehicle with the DMV so we cannot link it to the defendant." It can be linked to him by the plate he displayed, evidence he was in possession of the vehicle, and other evidence of ownership.

This is my take on it as well.

OLY-M4gery
09-06-2011, 16:26
I'm still waiting for the real reason why the car had the wrong plates on it.

ateamer
09-06-2011, 16:30
Either I missed a key fact or this story just does not make any sense.

Lets take this scenario:

I speak to Joe Blow and he tells me Dave Smith tried to run him over in his new red Ford truck. I find the red Ford truck and it has tag ABC123 on it. I check that tag and it is registered to Dave Smith although it lists a green Honda Civic.

Now when I write that report I can describe that situation in multiple ways but one thing is not in question. That tag on that vehicle belongs to Dave Smith, although he may not have updated the DMV on the vehicle switch that plate is still registered to him. So if I described it as "the vehicle was registered to Dave Smith" instead of "the plate on the vehicle was registered to Dave Smith" due to him displaying a tag on the vehicle assigned to him by the DMV it does not change the meaning a reasonable person can infer from it which goes to establish probable cause. The vehicle was linked to Dave Smith, describe it either way and you still have the same supporting evidence for.

It is not like the judge would be "well he had not registered the vehicle with the DMV so we cannot link it to the defendant." It can be linked to him by the plate he displayed, evidence he was in possession of the vehicle, and other evidence of ownership.
But remember, you aren't a busybody old spinster who takes the suspect's side and totally disregards the investigation done by a trained, experienced detective.

RussP
09-06-2011, 18:13
I'm still waiting for the real reason why the car had the wrong plates on it.After numerous questions, here is my take.

Neighbor bought a new car from a dealer.

Neighbor did not register the new car during the 30-day grace period after purchase.

Sometime within six months after purchase, neighbor washed the manufacturers statement of origin, destroying it.

Neighbor was dissatisfied with new vehicle and wanted to return it to the dealer.

During the five months after the 30-day temporary tags expired, the neighbor drove the car with the expired plates previously on a TransAm owned and registered to the neighbor.

The TransAm plate was on the new family style sedan and was seen by the harasser.

The harasser sought an arrest warrant against the neighbor.

In the complaint, the harasser noted the TransAm license plate number.

4949shooter
09-06-2011, 18:17
After numerous questions, here is my take.

Neighbor bought a new car from a dealer.

Neighbor did not register the new car during the 30-day grace period after purchase.

Sometime within six months after purchase, neighbor washed the manufacturers statement of origin, destroying it.

Neighbor was dissatisfied with new vehicle and wanted to return it to the dealer.

During the five months after the 30-day temporary tags expired, the neighbor drove the car with the expired plates previously on a TransAm owned and registered to the neighbor.

The TransAm plate was on the new family style sedan and was seen by the harasser.

The harasser sought an arrest warrant against the neighbor.

In the complaint, the harasser noted the TransAm license plate number.

Thus, the neighbor created his own problem by using a fictitious license plate on his sedan.

RussP
09-06-2011, 19:30
Thus, the neighbor created his own problem by using a fictitious license plate on his sedan.He did.

And he is using the detectives statement that the license plate indicated that the vehicle was registered to the neighbor, when, actually, the neighbor failed to register the vehicle within the permitted time and had in fact committed a crime by driving the unregistered vehicle on plates registered to another vehicle, to accuse the detective of lying.

I still want to know the crimes allegedly committed by the neighbor and the harasser.

It's a shame that felony stupid isn't in the code.

Patchman
09-06-2011, 19:54
After numerous questions, here is my take.

Neighbor bought a new car from a dealer.

Neighbor did not register the new car during the 30-day grace period after purchase.

Sometime within six months after purchase, neighbor washed the manufacturers statement of origin, destroying it.

Neighbor was dissatisfied with new vehicle and wanted to return it to the dealer.

During the five months after the 30-day temporary tags expired, the neighbor drove the car with the expired plates previously on a TransAm owned and registered to the neighbor.

The TransAm plate was on the new family style sedan and was seen by the harasser.

The harasser sought an arrest warrant against the neighbor.

In the complaint, the harasser noted the TransAm license plate number.

What I can't get through my brain is the neighbor's logic that because the license plate is expired, it's somehow improper (illegal?) for LE to use information from it to ID him.

Kind of like evidence that's inadmissible because it's the fruit of the poisoned tree. Here, the address/ID is inadmissible because it's the fruit from a stale tree. :supergrin:

JuneyBooney
09-06-2011, 22:55
Before you go, JuneyBooney, what were the allegations made by your neighbor and his "harasser" in filing for their respective arrest warrants?

The neighbor was testifying for a black kid and three goons started harassing him(witness intimidation). Then he filed charges against the first goon for threatening to burn his home down. First goon gets arrested and then three goons got together and made up a story of being run off the road, ripping a chain off the guys 500lb pound man with a long beard over neck neck, and putting a gun in the guy's mouth:whistling:. The fat guy had charges against him already by the neighbor and another man and they had actually never met in person until one night at the police station where the fat guy was trying to file charges and the police had told the neighbor to file more charges to stop the harassment but the neighbor said the guy was on welfare so he always had the public defender.:shocked:. After that is when it was forwarded to the detective. Detective did not use the old tag number to id him. He had the neighbor's name on the application for charges already which the aggressor tried to file. Here is the funny thing I noticed on the charges. The fat guy who claimed that he was a victim placed two felons as witnesses that the detective had arrested the previous year for stealing at least one police radio from a repair shop. :rofl:Man, the detective really must have been drunk to write what he did even knowing who he was dealing with.:wow: The neighbor was never charged with any motor vehicle infractions and the wrong tag actually helped him beat the charges because it showed sloppy police-work. I am still finding out more and will update you guys because some of it is really bizarre.

Juneybooney

JuneyBooney
09-06-2011, 22:57
I don't believe the story as told..It's really a rejected Quentin Tarantino screenplay called " El Tago"

:rofl:That is great. That may sell pretty good. Maybe I could be the director.

JuneyBooney
09-06-2011, 23:00
What I can't get through my brain is the neighbor's logic that because the license plate is expired, it's somehow improper (illegal?) for LE to use information from it to ID him.

Kind of like evidence that's inadmissible because it's the fruit of the poisoned tree. Here, the address/ID is inadmissible because it's the fruit from a stale tree. :supergrin:

Neighbor had no idea that this stuff would ever happen. The id was not made off the tag. He(detective) ran the tag and I have no idea why he didn't mention what car it was on but it happened. But you do know that a zebra is white with black stripes, right? :rofl:

JuneyBooney
09-06-2011, 23:03
He did.

And he is using the detectives statement that the license plate indicated that the vehicle was registered to the neighbor, when, actually, the neighbor failed to register the vehicle within the permitted time and had in fact committed a crime by driving the unregistered vehicle on plates registered to another vehicle, to accuse the detective of lying.

I still want to know the crimes allegedly committed by the neighbor and the harasser.

It's a shame that felony stupid isn't in the code.

I think I posted on another thread Russ about the alleged crimes. The detective did lie and the neighbor should have probably registered the car but I bet he would have had a much more difficult time beating the charges if they had picked a car that he actually owned and was at his real address. They do have felony stupid in the code but they only promote you if you mess up in our country..in all jobs. :rofl:

JuneyBooney
09-06-2011, 23:07
After numerous questions, here is my take.
Neighbor bought a new car from a dealer.



Neighbor did not register the new car during the 30-day grace period after purchase.

Sometime within six months after purchase, neighbor washed the manufacturers statement of origin, destroying it.

Neighbor was dissatisfied with new vehicle and wanted to return it to the dealer.

During the five months after the 30-day temporary tags expired, the neighbor drove the car with the expired plates previously on a TransAm owned and registered to the neighbor.

The TransAm plate was on the new family style sedan and was seen by the harasser.

The harasser sought an arrest warrant against the neighbor.

In the complaint, the harasser noted the TransAm license plate number.

He actually wrote the charges and then they were referred to the detective. It shows how easy people can abuse the system. What I would have asked the man who went to the magistrate is how he knew the name of the guy, address, etc and if he called the police afterwards to gain an id. Isn't the old expression, "getting a hard on for someone"? Your synopsis is basically correct.

ateamer
09-06-2011, 23:13
It's just amazing to me that in some states, a private citizen can go to a judge and get a warrant issued, or even get an audience to do so. I've never heard of a warrant being issued in this state without a law enforcement investigation, and a sworn peace officer presenting the affidavit to the judge.

JuneyBooney
09-06-2011, 23:44
It's just amazing to me that in some states, a private citizen can go to a judge and get a warrant issued, or even get an audience to do so. I've never heard of a warrant being issued in this state without a law enforcement investigation, and a sworn peace officer presenting the affidavit to the judge.

That is how it should be and then the supervisor should sign off after verifying information contained therein.

txleapd
09-07-2011, 02:27
It happened to a close friend and he is trying to get the detective arrested for kidnapping by the feds.

Was your friend transported across state lines? If not, I fail to see how the Feds would have any jurisidiction.

From the limited information, it basically sounds like your buddy is butthurt about this mess, and taking it out on the Detective. Your story doesn't contain enough to make me think the Detective did anything wrong. It sounds like his beef should be with the other guy.

But, I bet the other guy doesn't have the deep pockets of a department to go after, does he?

OLY-M4gery
09-07-2011, 02:56
After numerous questions, here is my take.

Neighbor bought a new car from a dealer.

Neighbor did not register the new car during the 30-day grace period after purchase.

Sometime within six months after purchase, neighbor washed the manufacturers statement of origin, destroying it.

Neighbor was dissatisfied with new vehicle and wanted to return it to the dealer.

During the five months after the 30-day temporary tags expired, the neighbor drove the car with the expired plates previously on a TransAm owned and registered to the neighbor.

The TransAm plate was on the new family style sedan and was seen by the harasser.

The harasser sought an arrest warrant against the neighbor.

In the complaint, the harasser noted the TransAm license plate number.

I think it's more like

Bought car, but didn't have dealer submit any SALES TAX or registration to DMV.

Put plates on car that didn't belong there.

Told yarn about losing paperwork, with no effort to replace said paperwork.

Tried to back out of the sale, essentially driving a new car for mileage costs

Basically scamming the system, while making up plausible excuses for his actions.

Then makes up a convaluted tale about regitration and harrasment when the registration scam comes to light.

RussP
09-07-2011, 06:45
I need to break this new information down point by point, sorry...
The neighbor was testifying for a black kid

three goons started harassing him(witness intimidation).

Then he filed charges against the first goon for threatening to burn his home down.

First goon gets arrested

then three goons got together and made up a story of being run off the road, ripping a chain off the guys 500lb pound man with a long beard over neck neck, and putting a gun in the guy's mouth:whistling:.

The fat guy had charges against him already by the neighbor and another man

and they had actually never met in person until one night at the police station where the fat guy was trying to file charges and

the police had told the neighbor to file more charges to stop the harassment

but the neighbor said the guy was on welfare so he always had the public defender.

After that is when it was forwarded to the detective.

Detective did not use the old tag number to id him.

He had the neighbor's name on the application for charges already which the aggressor tried to file.

Here is the funny thing I noticed on the charges.

The fat guy who claimed that he was a victim placed two felons as witnesses that the detective had arrested the previous year for stealing at least one police radio from a repair shop.

Man, the detective really must have been drunk to write what he did even knowing who he was dealing with.

The neighbor was never charged with any motor vehicle infractions

the wrong tag actually helped him beat the charges because it showed sloppy police-work.

I am still finding out more and will update you guys because some of it is really bizarre.


Juneybooney
1. So your neighbor was testifying on behalf of this kid. What is the relationship between the kid and the harasser?

2. What is the relationship between the kid and the three goons?

3. Okay some clarification is needed...
Is "he" your neighbor?
Is the first goon the same person as the harasser?
Did your neighbor file charges with the police or did he obtain an arrest warrant through the Magistrate?

4. Okay, first goon, aka harasser, is arrested for threatening to burn your neighbor's house down.

5. I need to slow things down a bit. The three goons alleged that your neighbor, all by himself, driving the new family style sedan with the TransAm plates on it...

Ran the three of them off the road
Ripped a chain off of them
There was a 500lb man with a long beard over his neck neck
and that he, your neighbor, put a gun in the 500lb guy's mouth
Is that correct?

6. Is the harasser, the 500lb guy and the fat guy all one person, the harasser?
How does your neighbor know that "another man" filed charges against the harasser (aka the 500lb guy, aka the fat guy)?
What is the relationship between your neighbor and "another guy"?[/COLOR]

7-8. And they had actually never met in person until one night at the police station where the fat guy was trying to file charges and the police had told the neighbor to file more charges to stop the harassment I need to slow down again...
The 500lb harasser had never met your neighbor
When the 500lb harasser goon and his two goon buddies were intimidating your neighbor, they did not do so in person, face to face.
One night, by chance, 500lb harasser goon was in the police station filing charges....Okay, sidebar...I thought 500lb harasser goon had gone to the magistrate and filed for an arrest warrant. The magistrate then gave the case to the police detective. You said that earlier.So the 500#HG (let's call him that for brevity) was in the police station when your neighbor came in. Your neighbor came in because the police told him to file additional charges against 500#HG.Another sidebar, please...you never did say what police department this is.So by coincident, they show up at the same time, which is the first time they had met. Again, if they'd never met before, how did 500#HG and his goon friends intimidate your neighbor?

9. So your neighbor did not file additional charges because 500#HG would have a public defender since he is on welfare. Why did that stop your neighbor from pressing criminal charges? Did your neighbor think he, 500#HG would not get adequate and proper representation through the PD's office?

10. So after the two of them met in the ________ Police Department station, when your neighbor did not file additional charges, but 500#HG did file charges against your neighbor, the magistrate referred the 500#HG complaint to the detective. Is the magistrate located in the police station?

11. Here is where I'm obviously confused. "Detective did not use the old tag number to id him." Did he use it to associate the new family style sedan to your neighbor?

12. So the detective had your neighbor's information and did not need the TransAm license plate number at all.

13. Okay...

14. "The fat guy who claimed that he was a victim placed two felons as witnesses that the detective had arrested the previous year for stealing at least one police radio from a repair shop." This just keeps getting juicier and juicier. The three goons who intimidated your neighbor without ever having met him, included two felons who witnessed your neighbor run them off the rode, take a chain from them and put a gun in 500#HG's mouth. Your neighbor must be one bad-ass MF'er. That's right, your neighbor had the gun pulled on them. I bet your neighbor doesn't even own a gun, right?

15. "Man, the detective really must have been drunk to write what he did even knowing who he was dealing with." So, the detective should have been intimidated by 500#HG and his two felon friends? The detective should have differently? How?

16. Your neighbor was never charged with any motor vehicle infractions even though for 6 months he was illegally operating the vehicle on public roadways. That's something to be proud of, yep, it sure is.

17. "...the wrong tag actually helped him beat the charges because it showed sloppy police-work." So had there not been that there "sloppy police-work" he might not have beaten the charges?

18. "I am still finding out more and will update you guys because some of it is really bizarre." Your are correct.

RussP
09-07-2011, 07:26
He actually wrote the charges and then they were referred to the detective.He wrote the charges? Isn't it more accurate to say he alleged certain illegal behavior and provided facts to support the allegations? Did he cite the specific section of the criminal code? It shows how easy people can abuse the system.Didn't you say earlier that you too have used the magistrate arrest warrant process?What I would have asked the man who went to the magistrate is how he knew the name of the guy, address, etc and if he called the police afterwards to gain an id.Wait, I thought 500#HG filed his complaint after he was served and arrested based on your neighbor's complaint. Wouldn't that complaint have who filed it? Oh, and if he did threaten to burn your neighbor's house down, might he have an address? How the hell do you burn down a house when you don't know where the house is located? Isn't the old expression, "getting a hard on for someone"? Remember that phrase for later.

scottydl
09-07-2011, 07:59
None of this makes any sense to me, no matter how many times the OP attempts to explain it... :dunno:

jpa
09-07-2011, 08:01
The tag number check is the key. He has already been told that he should have punched the cop in the nose for lying. :rofl:If the detective had not said the car was registered to the defendant there was no probably cause but what this shows is that leo are human and they do mess up and sometimes lie to be right.

Well there's your problem right there...he had probably cause. Without it and his hat the case would have been dead in the water. I'd call the ATF and have them launch a Fast and Furious investigation on this detective..


Sounds like a lot of cross complaints but that doesn't negate the validity of the complaint. The plate belongs to your neighbor but belongs on a Trans Am. So because he improperly used a registration plate that belongs to another vehicle that he owns he should be allowed to skate on running the other guy off the road?

There's three sides of every story. His side, the other guy's side and the truth. I'm not sure I'd take his word for gospel and as long as the detective acted in good faith on the information provided for him by his reporting party, he's covered.

Mayhem like Me
09-07-2011, 08:11
STOP!





























































Hammer Time
:devildance::pepper::dancingbanana::wave:

RussP
09-07-2011, 08:24
I think I posted on another thread Russ about the alleged crimes.Actually, it was in this thread, a few posts above. If I missed the other thread, please post a link to it.The detective did lie Okay...whatever.and the neighbor should have probably registered the car but I bet he would have had a much more difficult time beating the charges if they had picked a car that he actually owned and was at his real address.You say, "...if they had picked a car that he actually owned..." By saying that, you are implying that he did not actually own the new family style sedan.

Did he own the new family style sedan?

Was the new family style sedan at a different address than your neighbor's real address?

ghstface38
09-07-2011, 08:34
I didn't read all the postings here but from what I gather the tag did come back to your neighbor, just not the vehicle it was displayed on... which is PC in and of itself.

So when a "tag check returned to the defendant" he wasn't lying... it did return to your neighbors info.

I think.... I tried reading the posts and couldnt handle it.... why am I here? Where am I?!

lawman800
09-07-2011, 08:41
If the tag does not match the vehicle, that is another issue altogether, but it doesn't hurt the issue of identity.

Captain Boogie
09-07-2011, 08:48
I was going to join in, but I had an attack of common sense.

RussP
09-07-2011, 09:04
I was going to join in, but I had an attack of common sense.That's funny!

:rofl:

DaBigBR
09-07-2011, 09:29
Remember that phrase for later.

:rofl:

Ahh, Russ...love it.

ray9898
09-07-2011, 09:57
I still do not see why the vehicle description on the tag linked by the DMV is so important to the case. The evidentiary value of the tag is for the owners info which is pretty much undisputed.

merlynusn
09-07-2011, 10:16
I think the tag information is important. If the "harasser" says the neighbor's vehicle has license plate xyz1234 on it and is owned by neighbor at this address. The tag comes back to that same person. How do you know the harasser actually put down what the car style was? If I don't know what the car style was and the complainant says it is registered to john doe with a specific tag and the tag comes back to that person, I wouldn't necessarily check to see if the vehicle type is the same either. If he already knows all the info, then you can go from there.

Secondly, just because someone is a felon doesn't mean they can't be a victim. Hell most of the shootings I investigate have a felon as a victim. Does that mean I just shrug my shoulders and say "shouldn't be a felon, I'm not going to spend any time or effort on this case." No, it just means it's another hurdle to overcome when it comes to court.

CJStudent
09-07-2011, 10:19
http://rlv.zcache.com/shenanigans_tshirt-p2352721732374890893yg7_400.jpg

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 10:29
He wrote the charges? Isn't it more accurate to say he alleged certain illegal behavior and provided facts to support the allegations? Did he cite the specific section of the criminal code? Didn't you say earlier that you too have used the magistrate arrest warrant process?Wait, I thought 500#HG filed his complaint after he was served and arrested based on your neighbor's complaint. Wouldn't that complaint have who filed it? Oh, and if he did threaten to burn your neighbor's house down, might he have an address? How the hell do you burn down a house when you don't know where the house is located? Remember that phrase for later.

The first goon/hoodlum was arrested. He was one of three goons. The 500lb man was a friend of the first good and the three got together to get revenge. Two of the three were homosexual lovers. :wow: So yes, they supposedly all went to the magistrate to file charges after the first guy was arrested. They supposedly wrote applications for charges against the neighbor or said they were witnesses to the incident(not clear on that). The first guy that was arrested had threatened to burn the neighbor's home. He got arrested and the rest was clear retaliation. Yes, he did cite behavior that would cause an arrest if it had happened but nobody checked their warrant status etc from what I read. The man who threatened to burn the house down knew the neighbor's address and gave it to the fat guy from what I was told. From what I have been told the neighbor had only met two of the three goons. Then they had been harassing/tormenting a black kid and the neighbor was testifying for some reason about those incidents.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 10:29
http://rlv.zcache.com/shenanigans_tshirt-p2352721732374890893yg7_400.jpg

Great shirt. :cool:

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 10:34
I think the tag information is important. If the "harasser" says the neighbor's vehicle has license plate xyz1234 on it and is owned by neighbor at this address. The tag comes back to that same person. How do you know the harasser actually put down what the car style was? If I don't know what the car style was and the complainant says it is registered to john doe with a specific tag and the tag comes back to that person, I wouldn't necessarily check to see if the vehicle type is the same either. If he already knows all the info, then you can go from there.

Secondly, just because someone is a felon doesn't mean they can't be a victim. Hell most of the shootings I investigate have a felon as a victim. Does that mean I just shrug my shoulders and say "shouldn't be a felon, I'm not going to spend any time or effort on this case." No, it just means it's another hurdle to overcome when it comes to court.

Many of us have told the neighbor that the detective was listening to what people told him. But as it was not a face value street stop the tag did mater and what ticked the neighbor off really bad was that he found the police were not honest because of the lie about the car. Seems logical to me. You get popped and then tell them the car is not registered and nobody wants tp hear that a detective did wrong. I have seen judges get upset when people "impugn the integrity of the system".:upeyes: I thought everyone knew the system was broken. :faint:

RussP
09-07-2011, 10:35
Isn't the old expression, "getting a hard on for someone"? Remember that phrase for later.:rofl:

Ahh, Russ...love it.Thank ya, thank ya very much...

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 10:39
I still do not see why the vehicle description on the tag linked by the DMV is so important to the case. The evidentiary value of the tag is for the owners info which is pretty much undisputed.

If a Mustang is driven by a bank robber and leaves the scene and they see an Edsel with the tag on it they would more likely than not leave the Edsel alone. :rofl:What it shows is that if you get a coupe of people together and lie about someone even if they have no criminal history you can get them arrested. I have a friend that worked at the DIA fur years and his motto is, "if you hear a scream in the night, roll over and go to sleep". "Don't get involved". It seems like sound logic after seeing my neighbor's plight. Thye set out to cost him money and they did. If I had been the detective I would have made sure the tag did come back to the car because he was negligent at the least.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 10:43
I was going to join in, but I had an attack of common sense.

It really is interesting in many ways. :shocked: To me it shows that the system allows leo to make errors and the people are supposed to be sheep and allow themselves to be cost tons of money and never fight back. Now what the people say privately is a lot different than what their "public opinions" may be.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 10:53
Well there's your problem right there...he had probably cause. Without it and his hat the case would have been dead in the water. I'd call the ATF and have them launch a Fast and Furious investigation on this detective..


Sounds like a lot of cross complaints but that doesn't negate the validity of the complaint. The plate belongs to your neighbor but belongs on a Trans Am. So because he improperly used a registration plate that belongs to another vehicle that he owns he should be allowed to skate on running the other guy off the road?

There's three sides of every story. His side, the other guy's side and the truth. I'm not sure I'd take his word for gospel and as long as the detective acted in good faith on the information provided for him by his reporting party, he's covered.

I don't think you understand the picture. Three gays get together because they are seeking revenge of another guy. The other guy is sitting home minding his own business and they tell a tale to the detective. There was no running off the road etc. I cna see why the neighbor is ticked off. If the detective had done his job he would have arrested the three for conspiracy, false statement to a police officer, etc. Never happened even though the detective's partner believed the neighbor.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 10:57
I didn't read all the postings here but from what I gather the tag did come back to your neighbor, just not the vehicle it was displayed on... which is PC in and of itself.

So when a "tag check returned to the defendant" he wasn't lying... it did return to your neighbors info.

I think.... I tried reading the posts and couldnt handle it.... why am I here? Where am I?!

No, what the charges said was that a "tag check indicated the vehicle was registered to the defendant" It was not registered to anyone. The tag was an old tag that was dead. But here is something interesting. A man steals a plate..puts it on a car and robs a bank. Then the description is similar to the owner of the car where the tag was stolen..would they go arrest the guy or talk to him first? I think a good investigator would go talk to the people before making an arrest. If he had stated that the tag came back to the man without referring to the vehicle I would agree with what you said.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 11:03
Actually, it was in this thread, a few posts above. If I missed the other thread, please post a link to it.Okay...whatever.You say, "...if they had picked a car that he actually owned..." By saying that, you are implying that he did not actually own the new family style sedan.

Did he own the new family style sedan?

Was the new family style sedan at a different address than your neighbor's real address?

I meant post in the thread with the alleged crimes. Neighbor owned the car and the thing that really got him ticked off was the statement that the tag indicated the vehicle was registered to him and it wasn't. The neighbpr's car was in the shop at the time of the alleged incident and his driver's license address was different than the address given which was his parent's home. As soon as i get more info I will post it. They have a meeting with the county attorneys so maybe I will be made privy. :cool:

RussP
09-07-2011, 11:05
The first goon/hoodlum was arrested. He was one of three goons. The 500lb man was a friend of the first good and the three got together to get revenge. Two of the three were homosexual lovers. :wow: So yes, they supposedly all went to the magistrate to file charges after the first guy was arrested. They supposedly wrote applications for charges against the neighbor or said they were witnesses to the incident(not clear on that). The first guy that was arrested had threatened to burn the neighbor's home. He got arrested and the rest was clear retaliation. Yes, he did cite behavior that would cause an arrest if it had happened but nobody checked their warrant status etc from what I read. The man who threatened to burn the house down knew the neighbor's address and gave it to the fat guy from what I was told. From what I have been told the neighbor had only met two of the three goons. Then they had been harassing/tormenting a black kid and the neighbor was testifying for some reason about those incidents.There is a rule in creative writing called continuity. A reader is more apt to read a story through when there is/are common thread/threads. Your story has no continuity. The players continue to change complexion/identity. The facts become more incredulous with each telling.

I strongly believe, based on your previous negative posts in other threads related to law enforcement, that as you posted...Isn't the old expression, "getting a hard on for someone"?that old expression fits you like a well worn glove.

Okay, with 30-years of interviewing people who didn't want to give me information, but ultimately did, I believe I have the experience to call BS on this whole scenario based on the non-answers to some specific questions.

I might change my mind if JuneyBooney would tell us which NoVA PD this involved.

I'm outta here...homosexual lovers, felons at that...oh, wait, that makes sense.:supergrin:

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 11:30
There is a rule in creative writing called continuity. A reader is more apt to read a story through when there is/are common thread/threads. Your story has no continuity. The players continue to change complexion/identity. The facts become more incredulous with each telling.

I strongly believe, based on your previous negative posts in other threads related to law enforcement, that as you posted...that old expression fits you like a well worn glove.

Okay, with 30-years of interviewing people who didn't want to give me information, but ultimately did, I believe I have the experience to call BS on this whole scenario based on the non-answers to some specific questions.

I might change my mind if JuneyBooney would tell us which NoVA PD this involved.

I'm outta here...homosexual lovers, felons at that...oh, wait, that makes sense.:supergrin:

The story is correct as told from my reading documents. I appreciate your input. If you had seen the reports of the three goons backgrounds you would wonder how the neighbor ever got charged. One had shot a man after he got caught molesting the man's son. The other was in jail for burglary and the third was an armed robber who burned his uncle's home. The neighbor had no record and was raised with religion. Now as I see it when violence comes people should be trained for it. Nobody should sit back because of their religion and take it. Just my opinion.

Russ, I don't dislike leo at all and i consider them friends. I just want them to be honest and professional and to not lie because that is what separates them from the bad guys. Some of us in my profession say that the system is on one side, the bad guys on the other side and society in the middle. :whistling:

Update in a few weeks.

ray9898
09-07-2011, 11:32
If a Mustang is driven by a bank robber and leaves the scene and they see an Edsel with the tag on it they would more likely than not leave the Edsel alone. :rofl:

Unless the Edsel and Mustang are owned by the same person such as this scenario.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 11:36
Unless the Edsel and Mustang are owned by the same person such as this scenario.

But in the described scenario as discussed verbatim is that the car was unregistered. The key is to put as much information as possible in about a vehicle and go from there. But you never put something down as a fact if not true because it will bite you in the rear many times over.

ray9898
09-07-2011, 11:36
No, what the charges said was that a "tag check indicated the vehicle was registered to the defendant" It was not registered to anyone. The tag was an old tag that was dead.

But in the described scenario as discussed verbatim is that the car was unregistered. The key is to put as much information as possible in about a vehicle and go from there. But you never put something down as a fact if not true because it will bite you in the rear many times over.

What you seem to miss is the tag, even though expired, is still registered to your friend through the DMV. While you for some reason consider it a lie the detective may have simply written a phrase which gave a different meaning than he intended.

I would have phrased it "tag check indicated the plate on the vehicle was registered to the defendant' or "it was determined the vehicle was owned by the defendant".
Either way the tag provides evidence of ownership.

jpa
09-07-2011, 11:45
Was the detective suspended or "taken off the case" by his Captain? Did he have to turn in his gun and badge? You know rogue detectives like this one do their best work when they've been suspended or ordered to back off.

I'm sorry, I don't think you know your neighbor as well as you think you do and the crap you're shoveling just keeps getting deeper.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 11:47
What you seem to miss is the tag, even though expired, is still registered to your friend through the DMV. While you for some reason consider it a lie the detective may have simply written a phrase which gave a different meaning than he intended.

I would have phrased it "tag check indicated the plate on the vehicle was registered to the defendant' or "it was determined the vehicle was owned by the defendant".
Either way the tag provides evidence of ownership.

I guess my point is that if the tag does not come up to the car it is on don't say it does and then go place an innocent man in handcuffs and place him in jail. We see too many people get arrested, go home, get a gun, and go looking for revenge. If everyone does their job to their best then people still trust the system and aren't normally ticked off. But I believe anyone who did their job correctly would have also mentioned the address dmv had for the neighbor and not his old address. What you phrased would be correct.

ateamer
09-07-2011, 11:51
How do you know that he was transferred for disciplinary reasons? At a lot of agencies, officers rotate positions, and maybe his time in the bureau was up. Second, why was an administrator divulging confidential personnel information? Matters such as what discipline an officer received is confidential and is not public record. Or maybe your state doesn't have a Peace Officers' Bill of Rights.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 11:51
Was the detective suspended or "taken off the case" by his Captain? Did he have to turn in his gun and badge? You know rogue detectives like this one do their best work when they've been suspended or ordered to back off.

I'm sorry, I don't think you know your neighbor as well as you think you do and the crap you're shoveling just keeps getting deeper.

:rofl:I know the detective, his supervisor and the neighbor. Detective was a butthead in high school. Captain is honest and neighbor was a victim who would not fight back with his fists and it cost him more money being legal. He was suspended and I agree that detectives normally do their best work when their butt is on the line.

ray9898
09-07-2011, 11:56
I guess my point is that if the tag does not come up to the car it is on don't say it does


I just explained that to you. That one single fact was not the deciding factor on the arrest because the ownership of the car is not in question, he apparently just did not clearly describe it in a way to satisfy people who want to dissect the words looking for a technicality.

RussP
09-07-2011, 12:44
No, the more I think about it...there's very little credibility here.

No more.

Dukeboy01
09-07-2011, 12:46
I quit trying to follow along and make constructive comments two days and several pages ago. I'm glad to see that the OP's fantastical story has only gotten more convoluted, as it confirms that my original decision to abandon this thread was the correct one.

Today on Maury Povich: 500 lb. homosexual gang members who file cross complaints on gun waving lunatics sufferring from PTSD and the women who love them! Plus updates on a story we brought you last month: I'm 17 and I want to marry my own anus. And surprise DNA paternity test results! Stay tuned!

DaBigBR
09-07-2011, 12:54
So with nearly 200 posts in the thread, the only issue seems to remain that the plate did not belong on the car and the OP believes that the detective involved either negligently or maliciously lied in a report or charge by stating that the vehicle, rather than the license plate was registered to the defendant.

Alrighty then.

Bushido5150
09-07-2011, 13:31
I have been waiting on pins and needles for Cochese or Lawman or one of the other "CT Moderators" to unload on this thread. Is it just to confusing or what?

Come on guys I'm waiting :whistling: entertain me!!

4949shooter
09-07-2011, 14:14
The only proven liar on this thread is the guy who put fictitious license plates on his vehicle.

RussP
09-07-2011, 14:48
Here is the story...I was curious as to what would happen to you in your department if you said on an application for charges that, "A tag check indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant", thus making pc and the car was actually unregistered in any state. Would you get fired for essentially kidnapping an innocent man or what would happen to you. I know it is ok to lie in questioning a suspect but intentionally lying in charges seems like a jailable offense to me. Just curious what you guys think.

You wrote what I believed to be correct. My neighbor got popped on a warrant after a dirtbag who was harassing him went to the magistrate and filed charges. The charges were referred to a detective who allegedly investigated. But he failed to check out the man who told the story..he had an open warrant at the time and the car was unregistered but they had an old plate on it to take the car to a repair facility. So the old plate on it could have been the pc for a driving offense charge like a 250 dollar ticket etc but I don't see how he has gotten away so far with the making of the statement about the tag when the car was truly not registered anywhere because it was brand new and he had lost the certificate of origin from the dealer. The funny thing is that the "defendant's address" also had a wrong zipcode so it may have been shoddy detective work on something that could have as stated in another post "checked in about seven seconds" I think I could give a street cop more leeway on a mistake because the decisions are made more quickly and under more stress than a detective sitting in an office with plenty of time to ponder the information found. The guy allegedly ran a guy off the road, beat him with a pistol etc but of course they were made up as a revenge warrant. I guess this kind of stuff can happen but I know my neighbor was really ticked off. The tag they had displayed came up to a Trans Am and the car it was on was a family sedan. Kind of like comparing Pam Anderson to George Lopez. They look totally different. Thanks for your info.

It happened to a close friend and he is trying to get the detective arrested for kidnapping by the feds. So we will see what happens. The man had never had handcuffs on him in his life except for his police friends showing him how to cuff etc. He has claustrophobia so I think that freaked him out too.

That is interesting. I did see a lady cop get fired for running checks for a drug dealer she was dating and then she faced jail time. There are so many different charges that they can levy upon anyone including the cops.. I know all the computer checks are logged on the computer. I just can't imagine a detective taking the chance on something that is pretty simple to check.

The neighbor had a new car that he lost the certificate of origin. He needed to take the new car to the shop so he displayed an old tag from a trans Am on it with a different address. A man who was harassing the family went into a magistrate and filed false charges and they were referred to the detective who for some reason "lied". The address given was not correct because it did not have the guy's dmv address and the statement about the tag was way off base. I can only figure that what happened was the the detective thought the man who had a clean record was honest and that the car simply was not in the system but I would have never said a car was registered to a defendant if it wasn't. But from what I was told I think the guy did intentionally lie but we will have to see what the prosecutors decide to do. the charges were dismissed against my neighbor but he is still ticked off and wants some justice.

They do that here on the East Coast too. They normally tow cars with different plates and charge the owner with a 250 dollar fine or so for driving and unregistered car. From this guy's story the old tag had to be hand searched because it was a "dead" tag from the pruning you have described. Aren't there like three cars for every person in CA? The neighbor even mentioned he would have not minded a 250 or so ticket..but hated being popped on a lie.

I have seen cops get "retrained" and I think the detective was transferred but the victim wants him in jail for kidnapping and to lose his pension. I think it is fair if the detective knowingly lied because the neighbor was diagnosed with ptsd and has nightmares about the arrest and humiliation. It sounds like you do your job correctly and the detective here flew by his pants. I guess we will see if it was an innocent mistake for a conspiratory lie in the next few months.

What I found interesting is that states like Virginia allow people to have a car registered to an address that is different than their driver's license address and each car can have a different address but other states like Maryland only allow the address to come up to the certain address that is on the person's driver's permit. It is interesting how each state is different and I can only imagine the computers maintained by the states. The detective had a hand check done and the old address was on the neighbor's old tag and his new address was twenty miles away and the new address was on his driver's license but the address given on the charges was the old address. I just don't see how something so simple got messed up so badly.

He took it personally because it was not a traffic stop or an accident. He is still asking the state and the feds to prosecute the detective. I am sure his attorney fees ticked him off as it would anyone.

I looked at the carfax the neighbor has and it shows what he said..never registered until after the incident. I can't explain how the det lied or came up with the info. I think what happened was that after the man filled out an application for charges that the det got a "hard on" for the neighbor and didn't do his job but I can't fathom a trained leo being so careless.

"So you have an obvious lie, easy to find. I can't imagine too many cops being that stupid, and dishonest, and willing to throw the career away. "

I fully agree with that statement.

The charges had at the end that "a check on the tag number indicated that the vehicle is registered to the defendant". The car was not registered to anyone. the old tag was registered to the defendant's old car. The old tag was placed upon the car to take the car to the shop where it was sitting when the man made a false claim. The lie is that the family sedan was never registered. In addition, the address given was not the correct address but the man's parent's home which was on the old tag. Does that make sense to you. The man that was harassing the neighbor had two open warrants on him, one from my neighbor and one from another man he had threatened over the phone. What ticked my neighbor off the most was that the detective lied and then the neighbor was arrested on lies by the law.

The tag number check is the key. He has already been told that he should have punched the cop in the nose for lying. If the detective had not said the car was registered to the defendant there was no probably cause but what this shows is that leo are human and they do mess up and sometimes lie to be right.

In Maryland the address has to match the driver's license. In Va and other states it does not have to match on each car and the states make money off of people registering cars in their states like North Carolina and Va etc.


I think you are about right.

Actually went to dinner with gf.

Great pics.

The man has always had more than one car. The guy knew which car was his and went and filed false charges with the magistrate which were then referred to a detective because of the seriousness of the charges. The Trans Am plates were displayed on the family sedan but they were "dead" for a few years. Hope this clarifies it.

He had it for about six months and was going to give it back because it was a pos. But then he took it to the shop and then this went down. The guy didn't even live at the home though..it was his parent's home. The new operator's/driver's license address was twenty miles away and there were no mentions of the address ever. He did technically violate the law by driving the unregistered motor vehicle even though it had insurance. The car was in the dealership when the false warrant was issued.

I understand what you are saying but if the cop writes that a car is registered to him and it is not that makes the warrant not valid. I know people can find people by other means but that was not the issue. He was a victim and he should have just punched the guy that filled the charges in the first place but I think we all know that violence is frowned upon. Whether the man drove the car with old tags is not the issue but it shows how intentional errors/omissions can cause false arrest and a distrust of some parts of our legal system. The case was dismissed because of the tag but he still remains ticked off because of the money etc.

But the argument is that if the line is removed there is no probable cause because there is no identity of the car and person validated. But I think it shows a rush to judgment on the detective's part. When I saw the charges I told him to sue but most cases are dismissed because of immunity. It happens more than we know.

Looks like him.

It was the detective and that is why the neighbor is ticked off. He was arrested and didn't do a darned thing so I told him the next time to stomp some butt and get arrested for doing something. The problem is that people can swear on statements and then not all cops/attorneys etc do their jobs and cost people money for nothing. The poor guy has claustrophobia and I can only imagine his fear kicking in..kind of like the deputy down in Tennessee I think that was scared after being locked in a cell and started shooting to get out. But there is no excuse for a cop to lie about a tag check in this case or any other case. I tried to swear out charges some years back and the tag number didn't match so they would not give charges. So due diligence must be used.

I think that is how they do it everywhere.

The neighbor was arrested on the false warrant and then the case was eventually dismissed. I understand the legality of a warrant but if the leo lied in the application for such then it makes the warrant illegal. They now have it on the computer that the neighbor was "falsely arrested". Now to me if the neighbor had told each policeman that he came into contact with that the car was unregistered then they had a duty to check what he was saying and arrest the man who told the police the lies for making a false statement etc. But that is a secondary issue.

I think it is pretty simple. Man tells story to cop who writes down lie and man is falsely arrested. Man is ticked off and wants justice. In the old days Marshal Matt Dillon would have been involved.

It makes sense to me. But most of us always think that people charged have probably done something and a lot of the time it is not true. I see this a lot in our courts and if people had to pay fifty dollars to file charges and then pay for the defendant's legal fees and damages without a lawsuit then this kind of thing would stop. I will keep you guys posted as to what happens as I learn about it. A Trans Am does not look like an Old Cutlass.

I hear that a lot. But that does not change the ticket. But if you lied I bet you would find out. I saw a lawyer with a traffic ticket trying to tell a judge that he had a clean driving record and asked for probation before judgment. The judge checked his record and saw traffic tickets..referred the attorney to disciplinary commission and he was disbarred for lying to a judge.

Does your state have just one address for person or can you run different addresses for each car? Just curious.

If you are referring to the thread let me ask you this. If you are not driving down the road and a cop comes to your home, arrests you for a charge that you have no idea about and costs you more than ten grand in legal fees how would you feel? It can happen even to cops in our system. It happens to everyone nowadays and the worst cases are the stupid protection orders but that is another thread for someone else to discuss.

That is how it is in Va. But in Md and Dc they have to have one address. That is a good way in my opinion to keep scofflaws at bay.

It was a lie because the car was not registered to anyone. I understand the part about the tag supposed to come up to the car it is on but I have personally seen undercover cop cars with tags to ole ladies. So the cop lied and the first leo responses understood what was a lie. He should have never said the car was registered to the defendant and then it would have changed the dynamics of the case. What he did was to make an enemy for life and that is not good. I know how prosecutors use the shotgun approach to charges and I can only imagine what they could say about the leo. Conspiracy, wearing a handgun in the commission of a crime etc. The system can be very ruthless sometimes.

From what I read I don't even know if the detective did anything but because my neighbor asked them if they were "f'in stupid" they may have had it in for him. But I would have called them worse than stupid. The neighbor was not committing a criminal act but he never expected to be arrested for a false charge. To me it is interesting how the system wants people to "pay into" the system even if they did nothing.

I looked at an arrest warrant. Part of the probably cause was the tag and the id of the neighbor. The id technically was wrong because the proper address was not ever mentioned. If information in a warrant id defective that makes the warrant useless. What a lot of people want to do is always say the guy charged was the problem and that is not true in a lot of cases.

The detective lied..plain and simple. I think the neighbor should have responded with force at the beginning because the police really can't protect people who won't fight back. The warrant was not issued first and that is the point people are missing. The tag check was the integral part. But it is interesting to see how things happen in our system. If the detective had written that a tag check indicated the car was not registered to the defendant there would have been no charges. If they charge the detective I will let you guys know. I know so far he was transferred.

If a man is standing in a yard and the owner shoots him because he says there is a gun in his hand and then he plants one is it right? No. The detective lied about the tag check which manufactured pc. Just look at all the leo and dispatchers that get in trouble for lying and similar incidents as this. I think that the most important thing in a leo is honesty and if the neighbor makes a big stink I would not be surprised to see a termination.

Continued in next post...

RussP
09-07-2011, 14:54
Continued...Go file charges and write a tag number that is incorrect and see what happens...no charges. I won't even argue the point anymore. I agree with my neighbor and that is just because the tag was not registered to the man's car and it was a dead tag. I fully agree that the car could have been towed if pulled over but that never happened. Now we won't post what some cops said privately to my neighbor about the detective because it is bad. Have a great evening.

But what you are saying is wrong. If a cop writes down that a tag comes back to a car and it doesn't that is a lie. I am not going to even respond but the detective did lie and all I am saying is that if someone is messing with you I can understand why people become violent. Getting arrested is not the same as going for a ride in the park. He took a car to a shop. I will let you guys know what happens but I have seen so many cases be a waste of time in courts. Have a nice evening and great Labor day.

So what you are saying is that if he wrote that a tag check indicated the vehicle was registered to the man and it was not that it is not a lie? That sounds like doubletalk to me. I read the charges and I read the man's record that told the story to the cops. He is a felon who actually burned down his uncle's home. They had a great witness. It sounds more to me like a detective that got a woody for a guy and didn't do his job.

I agree normally about smoke but I have seen liars in all fields. The problem is that I keep seeing liars promoted in all fields. Just look at politics. The address given was not even the man's address so it seems fishy to me. I would like to see the detective examined by other leo and see why he did what he did. I think what happened is that the scofflaw goes in, files charges, then they are referred to detective, he fails to do his job because he wants the guy bad and then he tells some fibs or does not run any checks to verify the info given. It may be recklessness but a 28-29 is the simplest thing in the world to run and verify from what I have seen.

He was never interviewed. The detective did lie because the magistrate even admitted that the man came in and filed charges. I feel sorry for the guy because I don't think he will ever see a dime. He is the wrong color to get money and they don't get money from the law around here.

The zipcode was not right so he didn't get it from the plate. That was why it was fishy. I think the detective was careless at the least and I will ask more questions in the coming weeks. Neighbor has a meeting with upper leo and county so we will keep our ears and eyes open for info on what is happening. Pretty interesting in my opinion.

The plate on the vehicle was a dead tag that did register to an old vehicle the neighbor had owned. But the car that it was on had never been registered. The cop lied when he said the tag number indicated the car was registered to the defendant. It is a lie or a muck up and there should have been no warrant. The judge even said that when the case was dismissed. I think we all try to justify an officer's actions but the information was still not right any way you look at it.

I fully agree with you if the cop had not stated that the tag check indicated the car was registered to the defendant. If he had done his job he would have found that the car was not registered, checked with the neighbor, interviewed him, gone to the shop and then arrested the man that told the story to gain charges for a false warrant. The problem with the system is that a lot of people think "arrests" are ok with people. They are not. What I would have done as a detective would be run the tag and see if it matched the description of what the man wrote. Then, go from there. The zipcode on the warrant shows that somewhere along the line some wrong information came about and the funny thing is that the application for original charges is gone. So i think the theory "cover your butt" is being done.

The statement was "a tag check indicated the vehicle is registered to the defendant". That statement is not accurate. The neighbor had never registered the car. No other argument can be made on that statement. An innocent kid was arrested and has shown signs of ptsd. His family has spent tons of money to fight nonsense and that is not right.

The driver's license address is updated every day by DMV. The sergeant that was in charge of the arrest told the neighbor that he thought something was wrong and will testify against the detective. I guess my point for this is that the detective didn't do his job. A street cop has limited time to check facts etc and his/her decisions are made much faster so you can give them more leeway for errors. Detectives are supposed to gain facts and then go from there.

No problem. What this case shows is that revenge warrants are easy to come by and if the person places things like "gun" in the false statements then detectives etc may sometimes shortchange the investigation.

DMV had the correct address for years. The old tag was dead but from what I understand the dmv had all the info. I think it was just a cluster of sloppiness on the detective's part. That is what we will never know. I agree about people taking off etc. That does happen too.

From the documents and by looking at everything the man filed charges with the neighbor's name and all the information and then the detective reviewed it and filed on his own. I think the magistrate may have had a gut feeling something was wrong from how the story looks on paper and referred it. I don't think the harasser appeared at the same time as the detective.

Yes, the detective was transferred but you are right, In our system of law an innocent person can be charged and placed in handcuffs even if they truly did nothing wrong. Our system gives immunity for most police if it was within the scope of their authority but it does also give recourse if they determine that the detective did lie. We all try and think that arrests are valid and from what I see that is not always the case. The neighbor's dad spoke with the chief and he admitted that what should have been done was not for some reason so we will see what happens. The first 40 posts probably had it right on the money.

the scumball was harassing the neighbor and his family and other people just for fun. Then my neighbor believed that being non violent and filing charges would stop the harassment but anyone who believes this is wrong. The man was a welfare recipient who had a long criminal history. It was a revenge warrant after charges were filed by the neighbor. I am qualified because I went to school for it. Yes, in my opinion the neighbor should have not been arrested but from the many cases I have seen it does happen a lot more than we want to admit.

Neighbor said nothing happened but it was just more harassment meant to cost them money. Makes sense to me. Get a group of thugs together, find a religious family that won't fight physically and torment them. I think they call them "sitting ducks".

You could be right. Or he just didn't care. :shocked:

The detective was the complainant and that is what exposes him to liability.

He was removed as a detective and sent back to patrol and I think it was so far three days or so suspension but I am not sure about that. Chief admitted the car was not registered and was dumbfounded as to why the detective did that. I will try and look at the rest of the paperwork when I visit them this evening.

I don't know if they even thought about the tag because from what I understand the car was in a dealership lot the entire time. I have no idea but I have seen cars towed for improper registration. But most of those tickets get tossed if the people fix the tags.

You are right. The tag check was not done and they are investigating. how and why it happened. I will get more details as they become available but the tag was a key issue according to the department brass.

The neighbor was testifying for a black kid and three goons started harassing him(witness intimidation). Then he filed charges against the first goon for threatening to burn his home down. First goon gets arrested and then three goons got together and made up a story of being run off the road, ripping a chain off the guys 500lb pound man with a long beard over neck neck, and putting a gun in the guy's mouth:whistling:. The fat guy had charges against him already by the neighbor and another man and they had actually never met in person until one night at the police station where the fat guy was trying to file charges and the police had told the neighbor to file more charges to stop the harassment but the neighbor said the guy was on welfare so he always had the public defender.:shocked:. After that is when it was forwarded to the detective. Detective did not use the old tag number to id him. He had the neighbor's name on the application for charges already which the aggressor tried to file. Here is the funny thing I noticed on the charges. The fat guy who claimed that he was a victim placed two felons as witnesses that the detective had arrested the previous year for stealing at least one police radio from a repair shop. Man, the detective really must have been drunk to write what he did even knowing who he was dealing with.:wow: The neighbor was never charged with any motor vehicle infractions and the wrong tag actually helped him beat the charges because it showed sloppy police-work. I am still finding out more and will update you guys because some of it is really bizarre.

Juneybooney

That is great. That may sell pretty good. Maybe I could be the director.

Neighbor had no idea that this stuff would ever happen. The id was not made off the tag. He(detective) ran the tag and I have no idea why he didn't mention what car it was on but it happened. But you do know that a zebra is white with black stripes, right? :rofl:

I think I posted on another thread Russ about the alleged crimes. The detective did lie and the neighbor should have probably registered the car but I bet he would have had a much more difficult time beating the charges if they had picked a car that he actually owned and was at his real address. They do have felony stupid in the code but they only promote you if you mess up in our country..in all jobs.

He actually wrote the charges and then they were referred to the detective. It shows how easy people can abuse the system. What I would have asked the man who went to the magistrate is how he knew the name of the guy, address, etc and if he called the police afterwards to gain an id. Isn't the old expression, "getting a hard on for someone"? Your synopsis is basically correct.

That is how it should be and then the supervisor should sign off after verifying information contained therein.

The first goon/hoodlum was arrested. He was one of three goons. The 500lb man was a friend of the first good and the three got together to get revenge. Two of the three were homosexual lovers. :wow: So yes, they supposedly all went to the magistrate to file charges after the first guy was arrested. They supposedly wrote applications for charges against the neighbor or said they were witnesses to the incident(not clear on that). The first guy that was arrested had threatened to burn the neighbor's home. He got arrested and the rest was clear retaliation. Yes, he did cite behavior that would cause an arrest if it had happened but nobody checked their warrant status etc from what I read. The man who threatened to burn the house down knew the neighbor's address and gave it to the fat guy from what I was told. From what I have been told the neighbor had only met two of the three goons. Then they had been harassing/tormenting a black kid and the neighbor was testifying for some reason about those incidents.

Great shirt.

Many of us have told the neighbor that the detective was listening to what people told him. But as it was not a face value street stop the tag did mater and what ticked the neighbor off really bad was that he found the police were not honest because of the lie about the car. Seems logical to me. You get popped and then tell them the car is not registered and nobody wants tp hear that a detective did wrong. I have seen judges get upset when people "impugn the integrity of the system". I thought everyone knew the system was broken.

If a Mustang is driven by a bank robber and leaves the scene and they see an Edsel with the tag on it they would more likely than not leave the Edsel alone. What it shows is that if you get a coupe of people together and lie about someone even if they have no criminal history you can get them arrested. I have a friend that worked at the DIA fur years and his motto is, "if you hear a scream in the night, roll over and go to sleep". "Don't get involved". It seems like sound logic after seeing my neighbor's plight. Thye set out to cost him money and they did. If I had been the detective I would have made sure the tag did come back to the car because he was negligent at the least.

It really is interesting in many ways. To me it shows that the system allows leo to make errors and the people are supposed to be sheep and allow themselves to be cost tons of money and never fight back. Now what the people say privately is a lot different than what their "public opinions" may be.

I don't think you understand the picture. Three gays get together because they are seeking revenge of another guy. The other guy is sitting home minding his own business and they tell a tale to the detective. There was no running off the road etc. I cna see why the neighbor is ticked off. If the detective had done his job he would have arrested the three for conspiracy, false statement to a police officer, etc. Never happened even though the detective's partner believed the neighbor.

No, what the charges said was that a "tag check indicated the vehicle was registered to the defendant" It was not registered to anyone. The tag was an old tag that was dead. But here is something interesting. A man steals a plate..puts it on a car and robs a bank. Then the description is similar to the owner of the car where the tag was stolen..would they go arrest the guy or talk to him first? I think a good investigator would go talk to the people before making an arrest. If he had stated that the tag came back to the man without referring to the vehicle I would agree with what you said.

I meant post in the thread with the alleged crimes. Neighbor owned the car and the thing that really got him ticked off was the statement that the tag indicated the vehicle was registered to him and it wasn't. The neighbpr's car was in the shop at the time of the alleged incident and his driver's license address was different than the address given which was his parent's home. As soon as i get more info I will post it. They have a meeting with the county attorneys so maybe I will be made privy.

The story is correct as told from my reading documents. I appreciate your input. If you had seen the reports of the three goons backgrounds you would wonder how the neighbor ever got charged. One had shot a man after he got caught molesting the man's son. The other was in jail for burglary and the third was an armed robber who burned his uncle's home. The neighbor had no record and was raised with religion. Now as I see it when violence comes people should be trained for it. Nobody should sit back because of their religion and take it. Just my opinion.

Russ, I don't dislike leo at all and i consider them friends. I just want them to be honest and professional and to not lie because that is what separates them from the bad guys. Some of us in my profession say that the system is on one side, the bad guys on the other side and society in the middle.

Update in a few weeks.

But in the described scenario as discussed verbatim is that the car was unregistered. The key is to put as much information as possible in about a vehicle and go from there. But you never put something down as a fact if not true because it will bite you in the rear many times over.

I guess my point is that if the tag does not come up to the car it is on don't say it does and then go place an innocent man in handcuffs and place him in jail. We see too many people get arrested, go home, get a gun, and go looking for revenge. If everyone does their job to their best then people still trust the system and aren't normally ticked off. But I believe anyone who did their job correctly would have also mentioned the address dmv had for the neighbor and not his old address. What you phrased would be correct.

I know the detective, his supervisor and the neighbor. Detective was a butthead in high school. Captain is honest and neighbor was a victim who would not fight back with his fists and it cost him more money being legal. He was suspended and I agree that detectives normally do their best work when their butt is on the line.

OLY-M4gery
09-07-2011, 15:43
None of this makes any sense to me, no matter how many times the OP attempts to explain it... :dunno:

Actually it makes sense to me.

The story gets less and less plausible as more "details" get released, it's a made up story.

OLY-M4gery
09-07-2011, 15:47
Secondly, just because someone is a felon doesn't mean they can't be a victim. Hell most of the shootings I investigate have a felon as a victim. Does that mean I just shrug my shoulders and say "shouldn't be a felon, I'm not going to spend any time or effort on this case." No, it just means it's another hurdle to overcome when it comes to court.

Yes, but when you are evading sales tax, not registering or titling your vehicles, and putting unauthorized regitstration on your vehicle, it saves time by attacking the other person's credibility from the outset.

That's how that works, Right? When you don't have an actual defense, or are caught red-handed, MAKE COUNTER ACCUSATIONS.

OLY-M4gery
09-07-2011, 15:53
The only proven liar on this thread is the guy who put fictitious license plates on his vehicle.

But his dog ate his registration application.

4949shooter
09-07-2011, 17:50
But his dog ate his registration application.

Of course...

It couldn't actually have been his own fault. Must have been the detective's fault the wrong plates ended up on his unregistered vehicle.

GackMan
09-07-2011, 18:05
wonder if their state is like mine - driving a car with no tags is a ticket. Driving a car with switched plates is a crime.

If he had just hopped in a driven around, he'd have never had PTSD from being arrested and forced to answer for his actions.

ateamer
09-07-2011, 19:42
Claiming PTSD just from being arrested, and going along with it and supporting it, is a slap in the face to those who really have PTSD from going through real ****.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 19:48
Actually it makes sense to me.

The story gets less and less plausible as more "details" get released, it's a made up story.

No, it really happened. This is how you see three dirtbags harassing a victim by filing more serious charges against the victim. In the old days men would rape women and then get five guys to say they were together.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 19:54
wonder if their state is like mine - driving a car with no tags is a ticket. Driving a car with switched plates is a crime.

If he had just hopped in a driven around, he'd have never had PTSD from being arrested and forced to answer for his actions.

Driving a car with no tags and switched tags is the same. It is called driving an unregistered vehicle on the street.I have no idea what that last statement means, He did not run anyone off the road and the whole thread was about the tag check. He has ptsd from being falsely arrested by the cops. An arrest is not in the normal realm of life. I hope you understand that cops do lie as well as citizens lie and that people who are arrested don't forget it if they are totally innocent and cot serious money.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 19:55
Claiming PTSD just from being arrested, and going along with it and supporting it, is a slap in the face to those who really have PTSD from going through real ****.

Ptsd can come from many things. War veterans can get it and it is the same type of thing. It is not a slap in the face and I do know how he could have avoided it but I won't say it here. :whistling:

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 19:57
Yes, but when you are evading sales tax, not registering or titling your vehicles, and putting unauthorized regitstration on your vehicle, it saves time by attacking the other person's credibility from the outset.

That's how that works, Right? When you don't have an actual defense, or are caught red-handed, MAKE COUNTER ACCUSATIONS.

Some of you amaze me. Don't ever think that everyone who is charged by the system is guilty. Just don't do it because you may get charged with a crime and have not done a thing and learn a hard lesson. In this case the cop lied and the scum lied about the neighbor. Done deal.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 19:59
I quit trying to follow along and make constructive comments two days and several pages ago. I'm glad to see that the OP's fantastical story has only gotten more convoluted, as it confirms that my original decision to abandon this thread was the correct one.

Today on Maury Povich: 500 lb. homosexual gang members who file cross complaints on gun waving lunatics sufferring from PTSD and the women who love them! Plus updates on a story we brought you last month: I'm 17 and I want to marry my own anus. And surprise DNA paternity test results! Stay tuned!

Nice. :rofl:

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 20:04
The only proven liar on this thread is the guy who put fictitious license plates on his vehicle.

That point did not have any part of the charges at all except that the tags were not on the right car. Now if some of the square headed people would understand that if the people had lied about the neighbor and put a correct car with the man that the charges would have been harder to beat. There are some posts about defenses..why do innocent people have to prove they didn't do a darned thing? Stop believing that just because a guy is a leo that what he says is true. I used to think that way too. It is wrong and bullheaded. So you condone the police putting fake tags on their undercover cars that come back wrong, right? What is the difference?

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 20:09
Of course...

It couldn't actually have been his own fault. Must have been the detective's fault the wrong plates ended up on his unregistered vehicle.

Nope, he did that to take the car to the shop. It was his fault for not responding with "controlled violence" when all the nonsense started. But being brought up to be non violent must not work in society. :whistling: But if the cop willingly knew about the tags it is considered kidnapping because there was no probable cause without that..according to Judge's opinion. :wow: So I don't think there will be anything happen but you just never know. I thanks the people who posted on the original question.

4949shooter
09-07-2011, 20:15
Nope, he did that to take the car to the shop. It was his fault for not responding with "controlled violence" when all the nonsense started. But being brought up to be non violent must not work in society. :whistling: But if the cop willingly knew about the tags it is considered kidnapping because there was no probable cause without that..according to Judge's opinion. :wow: So I don't think there will be anything happen but you just never know. I thanks the people who posted on the original question.

My friend, there are NO kidnapping charges in order here.

Not even close.

4949shooter
09-07-2011, 20:20
That point did not have any part of the charges at all except that the tags were not on the right car. Now if some of the square headed people would understand that if the people had lied about the neighbor and put a correct car with the man that the charges would have been harder to beat. There are some posts about defenses..why do innocent people have to prove they didn't do a darned thing? Stop believing that just because a guy is a leo that what he says is true. I used to think that way too. It is wrong and bullheaded. So you condone the police putting fake tags on their undercover cars that come back wrong, right? What is the difference?

According to your story, the plaintiff in this case made a false report about your neighbor. That's why an apparently "innocent" person has to prove himself as such. It has nothing to do with how the detective gathered his information. that's what you don't understand.

There is a law against your friend putting fictitious tags on his vehicle. That's the difference.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 20:21
My friend, there are NO kidnapping charges in order here.

Not even close.

I am just going by what the written law says on kidnapping which is taking someone against their will and without lawful order. I chatted with a man and a woman who were filing charges back and forth and I told them to stop it because they would get a civics lesson real quick. :whistling:

4949shooter
09-07-2011, 20:25
I am just going by what the written law says on kidnapping which is taking someone against their will and without lawful order. I chatted with a man and a woman who were filing charges back and forth and I told them to stop it because they would get a civics lesson real quick. :whistling:

But you have already told us the judge issued a warrant. The arrest of your friend was lawful. No kidnapping charges are in order..

OLY-M4gery
09-07-2011, 21:37
Claiming PTSD just from being arrested, and going along with it and supporting it, is a slap in the face to those who really have PTSD from going through real ****.

Only thing that convinces me of, is the "neighbor" plays fast and loose with the truth.

OLY-M4gery
09-07-2011, 21:42
Some of you amaze me. Don't ever think that everyone who is charged by the system is guilty. Just don't do it because you may get charged with a crime and have not done a thing and learn a hard lesson. In this case the cop lied and the scum lied about the neighbor. Done deal.

Yeah, the wrong plates got on the car by accident.

There's no RATIONAL explanation why your "neighbor" had a car for 6 months, "forgot" to title and register the vehicle, but remembered to put unauthorized registration on it.

I know, lost some paperwork...................... I bet the dealership can have duplicate paperwork printed out within minutes.

ateamer
09-07-2011, 21:43
If the plate came back to him, then the car came back to him. End of story. What matters is the name connected to it, not the specifics like make and model.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 22:37
If the plate came back to him, then the car came back to him. End of story. What matters is the name connected to it, not the specifics like make and model.

That is not true at all. If it can be proven that a leo lies in an application with acuual knowledge of his lies and with malice he can be charged with kidnapping and/or civil rights violations. Most cops thta do time are charged with civil rights violations by the feds. I told you guys what I think..detective didn't do any investigating just went by seat of pants to get the guy. Now I agree with qualified immunity etc but that tag was the icing on the cake and it was wrong of the detective to do what he did but the US Constitution says nothing about lies. :upeyes: Of course if it did there would be no attorneys. :rofl:

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 22:40
Yeah, the wrong plates got on the car by accident.

There's no RATIONAL explanation why your "neighbor" had a car for 6 months, "forgot" to title and register the vehicle, but remembered to put unauthorized registration on it.

I know, lost some paperwork...................... I bet the dealership can have duplicate paperwork printed out within minutes.

But there is no legal requirement to tag, title or register a car at all. As a matter of fact collector cars are done that way a lot. I understand what you are saying.

Sgt127
09-07-2011, 23:05
I've never done meth, but, reading this thread is what it must feel like in a tweekers brain.

OLY-M4gery
09-07-2011, 23:16
But there is no legal requirement to tag, title or register a car at all. As a matter of fact collector cars are done that way a lot. I understand what you are saying.

You are required to title vehicles.

You are required to register vehicles that are driven on public roads.

You are prohibited from placing registration plates on a vehicle, that those plates are not assigned to.

That first line sounds something like a soveriegn would think.

I think I have uncovered the problem.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 23:36
You are required to title vehicles.

You are required to register vehicles that are driven on public roads.

You are prohibited from placing registration plates on a vehicle, that those plates are not assigned to.

That first line sounds something like a soveriegn would think.

I think I have uncovered the problem.

:rofl:Actually if the car has no lien there is no requirement to title it if it is new. If there is a lien then it is required. I agree with this

You are prohibited from placing registration plates on a vehicle, that those plates are not assigned to.


Just what is a sovereign in your context?:whistling:

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 23:37
I've never done meth, but, reading this thread is what it must feel like in a tweekers brain.

Do you still have your teeth? If so, you don't use meth..:rofl:

SAR
09-07-2011, 23:55
Ok, the only thing I'm not sure of now is was this truly a "neighbor" this happened to or was it actually *you*? You seem to know an awful lot and seem to be pretty defensive of this so-called neighbor.

JuneyBooney
09-07-2011, 23:59
Ok, the only thing I'm not sure of now is was this truly a "neighbor" this happened to or was it actually *you*? You seem to know an awful lot and seem to be pretty defensive of this so-called neighbor.

I am defensive of all my threads. :cool: I hate to lose. :rofl:Man, we have had some wicked thunderstorms this evening. I can't sleep because of boom boom so I am a bit tired but don't you defend your threads too? I think the discussion has been pretty good and not really nasty or anything so the parlaying has been a good discussion of the topic.

OLY-M4gery
09-08-2011, 00:21
:rofl:Actually if the car has no lien there is no requirement to title it if it is new. If there is a lien then it is required. I agree with this

You are prohibited from placing registration plates on a vehicle, that those plates are not assigned to.


Just what is a sovereign in your context?:whistling:

Actually, in order to register a vehicle in VA, you must first obtain title to the vehicle, whether or not there is a lien on it.

Next, VA-DMV doesn't say anything about needing a "certificate of origination", or whatever made up form your "neighbor" is talking about, as a requirment to title a vehicle.

If the vehicle is operated on public roadways, it's required to be registered.

Your lien-title theory is again pointing towards soveriegn.

groovyash
09-08-2011, 00:54
Let me ask you something Juney,

Why is it, in your best guess, that your neighbor put that plate on his vehicle instead of driving it to his mechanic with no plate on? In other words, what did he feel that having that plate on his vehicle would accomplish?

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 08:50
Let me ask you something Juney,

Why is it, in your best guess, that your neighbor put that plate on his vehicle instead of driving it to his mechanic with no plate on? In other words, what did he feel that having that plate on his vehicle would accomplish?

I am assuming to make people think it was properly tagged and keep the wolves at bay. I don't think anyone would drive a car on the road without a tag.

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 08:53
Actually, in order to register a vehicle in VA, you must first obtain title to the vehicle, whether or not there is a lien on it.

Next, VA-DMV doesn't say anything about needing a "certificate of origination", or whatever made up form your "neighbor" is talking about, as a requirment to title a vehicle.

If the vehicle is operated on public roadways, it's required to be registered.

Your lien-title theory is again pointing towards soveriegn.

You don't have to title or register a car if it has no lien. A certificate of origin is from the manufacturer and it shows where the car came from. In other words one that is built from Ford, Gm. Honda etc and then it gets titled in a state or territory. Yes, it needs a tag to be driven on a roadway but a dealer tag could be placed on the car which would not require registration of the vehicle.

Sharky7
09-08-2011, 08:54
That is not true at all. If it can be proven that a leo lies in an application with acuual knowledge of his lies and with malice he can be charged with kidnapping and/or civil rights violations. Most cops thta do time are charged with civil rights violations by the feds. I told you guys what I think..detective didn't do any investigating just went by seat of pants to get the guy. Now I agree with qualified immunity etc but that tag was the icing on the cake and it was wrong of the detective to do what he did but the US Constitution says nothing about lies. :upeyes: Of course if it did there would be no attorneys. :rofl:

Why would this detective be out to get your neighbor so bad? What would be the motivation?

lawman800
09-08-2011, 09:33
Was the detective suspended or "taken off the case" by his Captain? Did he have to turn in his gun and badge? You know rogue detectives like this one do their best work when they've been suspended or ordered to back off.

I am waiting for the denouement where the Ex-detective follows the suspect to a bar, confronts him in the back alley when the suspect goes to pee, punches him and pulls out his personal gun, and the suspect laughs and says, "What are you gonna do, arrest me, copper? I will be back out on the streets before you can finish the first page of the report!"

Then the copper cocks the hammer back on his Glock 7 ceramic pistol which is made in Germany to evade x ray machines and cost more than you make in a month. The suspect then gets worried and says, "but you can't shoot me, you're a cop!" The ex-detective scowls and says, "WRONG, bucko. I'm an ex cop!"

Fade to another scene where the ex-detective's partner is looking for him to stop him from doing something he will regret while the captain is sitting at his work desk, at night, alone, staring at the detective's badge that he turned in, and something clicks, and realizes the detective was right all along! The captain grabs his cheap sports coat and runs out the door.

Cut to commercial break.:tongueout:

I have been waiting on pins and needles for Cochese or Lawman or one of the other "CT Moderators" to unload on this thread. Is it just to confusing or what?

Come on guys I'm waiting :whistling: entertain me!!

I gave up a long time ago on this thread. Now I'm just making ish up. Hey! Just like the OP!

DaBigBR
09-08-2011, 10:59
I don't think anybody is going to change anybody's mind here.

RussP
09-08-2011, 11:29
Why would this detective be out to get your neighbor so bad? What would be the motivation?He wasn't after the neighbor. The detective went to high school with JuneyBooney. :whistling:

ateamer
09-08-2011, 11:34
That is not true at all. If it can be proven that a leo lies in an application with acuual knowledge of his lies and with malice he can be charged with kidnapping and/or civil rights violations. Most cops thta do time are charged with civil rights violations by the feds. I told you guys what I think..detective didn't do any investigating just went by seat of pants to get the guy. Now I agree with qualified immunity etc but that tag was the icing on the cake and it was wrong of the detective to do what he did but the US Constitution says nothing about lies. :upeyes: Of course if it did there would be no attorneys. :rofl:
No, it's not true. You don't know federal statutory nor Constitutional law, and probably don't know your own state's laws either. Just quit defending a criminal and let it go.

lawman800
09-08-2011, 12:35
Stop trying to make sense... The truth and facts have nothing to do with it.

ateamer
09-08-2011, 13:07
Stop trying to make sense... The truth and facts have nothing to do with it.
That fits just about any thread on GT lately. Or for the last five years.

lawman800
09-08-2011, 13:13
I am waiting for the denouement where the Ex-detective follows the suspect to a bar, confronts him in the back alley when the suspect goes to pee, punches him and pulls out his personal gun, and the suspect laughs and says, "What are you gonna do, arrest me, copper? I will be back out on the streets before you can finish the first page of the report!"

Then the copper cocks the hammer back on his Glock 7 ceramic pistol which is made in Germany to evade x ray machines and cost more than you make in a month. The suspect then gets worried and says, "but you can't shoot me, you're a cop!" The ex-detective scowls and says, "WRONG, bucko. I'm an ex cop!"

Fade to another scene where the ex-detective's partner is looking for him to stop him from doing something he will regret while the captain is sitting at his work desk, at night, alone, staring at the detective's badge that he turned in, and something clicks, and realizes the detective was right all along! The captain grabs his cheap sports coat and runs out the door.

Cut to commercial break.:tongueout:

I gave up a long time ago on this thread. Now I'm just making ish up. Hey! Just like the OP!

Quoted for Bushido's entertainment... And because I like making myself laugh....

RussP
09-08-2011, 13:24
I am assuming to make people think it was properly tagged and keep the wolves at bay. I don't think anyone would drive a car on the road without a tag.And you believe operating a vehicle in violation of the law is excusable behavior?

By the way, who are "the wolves?"

RussP
09-08-2011, 13:35
I chatted with a man and a woman who were filing charges back and forth and I told them to stop it because they would get a civics lesson real quick. :whistling:Are these more players in this saga, or just another deflection?

Players:
The Harasser
The Neighbor
The Three Goons
The Harasser and his Two Goons
The Harasser, the 500lb Goon, and the 3rd Goon
The Chain (taken from the three goons)
The Gun
The Homosexual Lovers
The Black Kid
The Harassers of the Black Kid
The Magistrate
The Detective
The Police Chief
The Detective's supervisor
The Car Dealership
The Repair Shop
The New Family Style Sedan
The TransAm License Plate
The Certificate of Origin
The Washing Machine

DaBigBR
09-08-2011, 13:51
I solved it! It was the goons in the washing machine with the certificate of origin!

RussP
09-08-2011, 15:03
I solved it! It was the goons in the washing machine with the certificate of origin!WRONG!! But, :thumbsup: for creativity!!!!!!! :supergrin:

GackMan
09-08-2011, 15:11
why is this still here?

OLY-M4gery
09-08-2011, 15:13
why is this still here?

The washing machine goons swore out a warrant claiming the "neighbor" tried to drown them.

GackMan
09-08-2011, 15:28
The washing machine goons swore out a warrant claiming the "neighbor" tried to drown them.

And I only have myself to blame for coming back and clicking on it again.

Well... if I time it right, maybe I can own page 11 w/ the first post. So I'll have that going for me.

Bushido5150
09-08-2011, 15:41
Quoted for Bushido's entertainment... And because I like making myself laugh....

I am entertained

scottydl
09-08-2011, 17:21
This thread is like a horrible car crash. No matter how horrible it is,,,,

I...

JUST...

CAN'T...

LOOK...

AWAY... !

lawman800
09-08-2011, 17:54
I solved it! It was the goons in the washing machine with the certificate of origin!

Haven't you been paying attention? It's the butler. It's always the ducking butler!

RussP
09-08-2011, 18:19
Haven't you been paying attention? It's the butler. It's always the ducking butler!If the butler ducked, that means there was incoming fire, so it was self defense!!!!!!!!!!!!

RussP
09-08-2011, 19:03
Okay, for all y'all following this drama, let's set the scenes...

Scene I: Black kid is harassed by goons.
Scene II: Black kid complains he is being harassed by goons
Scene III: Neighbor testifies that goons are harassing black kid
Scene IV: Goons begin harassing neighbor, threaten to burn down his house...


More later...

ray9898
09-08-2011, 19:39
I see nothing has changed since yesterday. We still can't get by "the car was registered to the defendant" even though it was explained many times when you own a car and put a plate on it assigned to you it is logical that shows ownership no matter how you word it.

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 20:23
No, it's not true. You don't know federal statutory nor Constitutional law, and probably don't know your own state's laws either. Just quit defending a criminal and let it go.

I do know the law and I will say this....if they want you..they will get you. :whistling::cool:

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 20:25
I see nothing has changed since yesterday. We still can't get by "the car was registered to the defendant" even though it was explained many times when you own a car and put a plate on it assigned to you it is logical that shows ownership no matter how you word it.

What it shows is sloppiness. That tag number was a key element and the first responses agreed. If the neighbor proves it and goes forward he could get the guy in deep trouble or even get some money. But in today's society a white dude might not get any money because it is not pc. :cool:

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 20:26
Okay, for all y'all following this drama, let's set the scenes...

Scene I: Black kid is harassed by goons.
Scene II: Black kid complains he is being harassed by goons
Scene III: Neighbor testifies that goons are harassing black kid
Scene IV: Goons begin harassing neighbor, threaten to burn down his house...


More later...

Russ, you are a pretty darned good narrator. :cool:

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 20:27
If the butler ducked, that means there was incoming fire, so it was self defense!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is a good one too. :rofl:

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 20:28
This thread is like a horrible car crash. No matter how horrible it is,,,,

I...

JUST...

CAN'T...

LOOK...

AWAY... !

Kind of like a car race..everyone want to see an accident. :whistling:

Oh guys, if you have ever been in the Tastee Diner in Fairfax, Va there are normally women who get into fights with each other there..late in the evening..we always want to see clothes torn off during fights..:supergrin:

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 20:30
The washing machine goons swore out a warrant claiming the "neighbor" tried to drown them.

That is about right. :rofl:

JuneyBooney
09-08-2011, 20:32
Stop trying to make sense... The truth and facts have nothing to do with it.

That is how the law works isn't it..:whistling: The truth does not matter. Just who has an attorney that played golf with the judge the previous day.