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Gasoil4ever
09-05-2011, 14:33
Hi all !

It's been a long time since i last posted on Glocktalk (over 2 years) :whistling:

I have recently moved abroad and i am looking for a 12 gauge for home defense.

If i could i would stick with a Glock 19... but it's nearly impossible to get here :crying: Anyways i have to comply to the rules of my hosting country.

The easiest way is to comply for a hunting permit, the country side being amazing i will most probably use it for hunting. That leaves me with the following parameter :

- 12 Gauge
- 2 shots maximum
- no pistol grip

I am considering a SxS Double Defense Stoeger or a 0/U Mossberg Maverick HS12. I like the idea of a short barrel with picatinny rail to have a lamp on it.

I am thinking a SxS should be easier/faster to reload.

Looking forward to read your replies

1 old 0311
09-05-2011, 14:47
Coach Gun.

Gasoil4ever
09-05-2011, 14:58
Coach Gun.

Any names / brands / models to suggest ?

Z71bill
09-05-2011, 15:27
I would check around in the area you live -

I will guess there will be a couple guns that are popular with the locals -

I would pick one of them.

Like in the USA - I bet most HD 12 gauges are either a Remington 870 or Mossberg. Sure some use Winchester - Benelli - a few Saiga - but 7/10 would be a Remington or Mossberg.

Seems like it would be cheaper to buy - and easier to sell if/when you move.

Peppy
09-05-2011, 15:36
Coach Gun.

:rofl:

Angry Fist
09-05-2011, 15:40
Saiga 12. Then:

Mossberg 500 or Remington 870.


Coach gun, because of the laws. Mossberg Silver Reserve O/U.

David Armstrong
09-05-2011, 17:43
The SxS will be easier to reload than the O/U, so I'd go with it.

mixflip
09-05-2011, 19:11
If its for home defense why would you want to be limited to only 2 shots?

WoodenPlank
09-05-2011, 19:57
If its for home defense why would you want to be limited to only 2 shots?

Legal restrictions in current country of residence.

bug
09-05-2011, 20:21
Any names / brands / models to suggest ?

My best friend has a basic Stoeger SxS in 12ga(blue/wood stock) It has been 100% reliable with over 1000 rounds through it.
Nice gun
They have them with syn stocks in nickle that might hold up better in
Cameroon.
Cant say it is the best but it works.

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_guns.php

mixflip
09-05-2011, 23:18
Legal restrictions in current country of residence.

Oh ok now I understand.

Booker
09-06-2011, 13:45
Baikal makes a nice little coach gun with external hammers and inter-changeable chokes.

Remington imported them for a while into the USA. Should fit your requirements nicely!

They have dual triggers, so you could have different loads in the barrels and you could select which to fire first depending on the situation.

The Stoeger DD is a single trigger affair which I don't care for but others like.

Z71bill
09-07-2011, 10:58
Baikal makes a nice little coach gun with external hammers and inter-changeable chokes.

Remington imported them for a while into the USA. Should fit your requirements nicely!

They have dual triggers, so you could have different loads in the barrels and you could select which to fire first depending on the situation.

The Stoeger DD is a single trigger affair which I don't care for but others like.

Not sure if this is common - but I knew a couple people that had double barrel shotguns with the dual triggers

They use to beat the crap out of their fingers when they shot them.

Its been a while - I don't recall the details - but something to at least look at before you buy.

byf43
09-07-2011, 12:00
Hi all !

It's been a long time since i last posted on Glocktalk (over 2 years) :whistling:

I have recently moved abroad and i am looking for a 12 gauge for home defense.

If i could i would stick with a Glock 19... but it's nearly impossible to get here :crying: Anyways i have to comply to the rules of my hosting country.

The easiest way is to comply for a hunting permit, the country side being amazing i will most probably use it for hunting. That leaves me with the following parameter :

- 12 Gauge
- 2 shots maximum
- no pistol grip

I am considering a SxS Double Defense Stoeger or a 0/U Mossberg Maverick HS12. I like the idea of a short barrel with picatinny rail to have a lamp on it.

I am thinking a SxS should be easier/faster to reload.

Looking forward to read your replies

Coach Gun.

Agreed.



:rofl:

Peppy: Re-read the OP's post. It says that he's limited to TWO shots.
Instead of rolling on the floor, laughing, why not give some input.
What would you suggest for a HD/SD shotgun that fills the OP's needs??????






Gasoil4ever:
Since you are limited to two shots 'maximum' in the scattergun, I agree with those that have said "Coach Gun".
Personally, I don't think too highly of the version with the rail, etc.
(But, whatever floats your boat.)

I'd get a Coach Gun with choke tubes (I think they are called Coach Gun Supreme"). Cyl and I/C chokes would be 1st choice, or I/C and Modified.

I also suggest SLIGHTLY relieving the back of the chamber with a hone or Fine or Extra-Fine emory cloth, so that your shells will enter/eject a little easier. It doesn't take much. Just about the first 1/2" to 3/4" inside the chamber.



Stay safe.

Gasoil4ever
09-07-2011, 12:59
Thanks for the feedback guys !

My first choice would be a SxS.

Thanks for the advice byf43 i'll will definetely relief the back chamber :thumbsup:

But i have been working hard on this subject and met a guy who's a close relative to a top guy in the local administration in charge of those subjects... and guess what...

I might get a hunting license open for a multiple shot 12 gauge :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Then no doubt : Mossberg 500

But then i hesitate : 500 Cruiser (Blackwater series) or a Thunder Ranch ?

On a 500 Cruiser i would most probably fit a folding stock (ATI)...

My concern is about the recoil... is it managable with a pistol grip (I am a 6"15 and nearly 200 pounds) ? Can you shoot the next shots quickly enough ?

What it does compare to ? Ammo wise i am planning on using 00 Eight Pellets reduced recoils cartridges and non lethal hard rubber cartridges (used by the french SWAT) ?

As you can see eventhough i know my way with Glocks i am a complete noob with shotguns... :whistling:

Thanks !

Angry Fist
09-07-2011, 17:26
That Mossberg is a piece o' cake. Fear not. Quite controllable with any load. Get the 20" with full length magazine. 8 shots! :cool:

ScrappyDoo
09-07-2011, 18:06
If its for home defense why would you want to be limited to only 2 shots?


Mix serious the coach gun is like one of the sillest dilyiest absiolutely most illiest answer.

The Mossberg 930 SPX is cleanly the best answer, M930SPX is the best HD/Combat/Tru Warier / go boom boom bam bam shotgun on the planet.

But coach gun? I'd rathert not even use a shotgun, heck, i'd buy s revolver oover a coach gun, 5 rounds is mor ethn double 2 rounds!!!

the best part i, people love the coach guns cause of Omar Little, ..the Wire... OImar comin yo!!!!!

if u listen to the show, tyhey insert "click Clacks" after Omar shoots. And he mystreriouslty has round after round after rond in shootouts; hmm.

vafish
09-07-2011, 18:12
2 shots, Stevens 311r

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/utf-8BcGl4NDg2OTYzNTIwLmpwZw.jpg

5 shots, Mossberg 500:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/Guns/08220004.jpg

cowboywannabe
09-07-2011, 18:41
mossberg mavrick 88 with a 18.5" bbl.

cost $189.00

captcurly
09-07-2011, 18:52
The best home defense shotgun is the gun that you can handle with safety. A gun that you can be accurate with. Most of important the gun that you are the most confident with. Of course the caliber should be 12ga.

JFrame
09-08-2011, 05:21
Hey, folks -- please be mindful that the OP has a legal 2-shot restriction in his country of residence. :)


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ScrappyDoo
09-08-2011, 08:02
Just curious I didnt see it, what country is this? It allows shotguns but only two shots?

JFrame
09-08-2011, 08:06
Just curious I didnt see it, what country is this? It allows shotguns but only two shots?


It looks like Cameroun (Cameroon) in Africa -- Douala is the largest city in that nation...


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Gasoil4ever
09-08-2011, 14:20
It looks like Cameroun (Cameroon) in Africa -- Douala is the largest city in that nation...


.

Yep i am an expatriate in Cameroon.

There is a 2 shot legal restriction here.

But as i have said in a previous post, i just figured that if you know the "good" persons you can overcome this problem :whistling: And i am close to getting a hunting license that allows me up to 6 shots... :woohoo: So i am lurking on a Mossberg 500 now... will also most probably by a Coach gun as i find them cool too... can't leave with a single gun :supergrin:

JFrame
09-08-2011, 14:41
Yep i am an expatriate in Cameroon.

There is a 2 shot legal restriction here.

But as i have said in a previous post, i just figured that if you know the "good" persons you can overcome this problem :whistling: And i am close to getting a hunting license that allows me up to 6 shots... :woohoo: So i am lurking on a Mossberg 500 now... will also most probably by a Coach gun as i find them cool too... can't leave with a single gun :supergrin:


As the saying goes, "Necessity is the mother of invention"... :)

Not that I would want to be faced with the restrictions you're under -- but there must be some sort of grim and perverse delight in arming yourself capably in light of restrictions trying to keep you as unarmed as possible... :supergrin:

Heck -- most people should be "unarmed" enough to have a Mossberg 500 and a double-barreled shotgun! :cool:

BTW -- I don't know what kind of weather you have in that part of the world, but if you go with the 500, you might want to consider the Marine version with the Marinecote(TM) finish. It has a good reputation for resistance to the elements. Also, anecdotally speaking, the finish also supposedly gives it a somewhat smoother action than the standard 500. I really can't speak to that, because I have the Marine (which feels very smooth), but I have never used a standard 500...


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Gasoil4ever
09-08-2011, 14:58
As the saying goes, "Necessity is the mother of invention"... :)

Not that I would want to be faced with the restrictions you're under -- but there must be some sort of grim and perverse delight in arming yourself capably in light of restrictions trying to keep you as unarmed as possible... :supergrin:

Heck -- most people should be "unarmed" enough to have a Mossberg 500 and a double-barreled shotgun! :cool:

BTW -- I don't know what kind of weather you have in that part of the world, but if you go with the 500, you might want to consider the Marine version with the Marinecote(TM) finish. It has a good reputation for resistance to the elements. Also, anecdotally speaking, the finish also supposedly gives it a somewhat smoother action than the standard 500. I really can't speak to that, because I have the Marine (which feels very smooth), but I have never used a standard 500...


.

Let's see what i can manage, but i am pretty confident.

I looked mossberg.com and being in a tropical environement + next to the see i was starting considering a Marinecote :supergrin:

A Tactical 6 shot + pistol grip.

Could you post a picture of yours ?

David Armstrong
09-08-2011, 15:38
Admittedly it has been many years since I walked teh Dark Continent, but back then it was REALLY hard to get parts for U.S. shotguns compared to the European guns. Just something to keep in mind.

JFrame
09-08-2011, 15:56
Let's see what i can manage, but i am pretty confident.

I looked mossberg.com and being in a tropical environement + next to the see i was starting considering a Marinecote :supergrin:

A Tactical 6 shot + pistol grip.

Could you post a picture of yours ?


Hey, Gasoil -- I am digitally challenged, but let me see what I can do... :)


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JFrame
09-08-2011, 18:18
Okay, Gasoil -- these ain't gonna make it onto the cover of Guns & Ammo, but it's what I could do in a hurry... :supergrin:

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx12/Dennva/MossMarine02sm.jpg

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx12/Dennva/MossMarine03sm.jpg

The standard factory stock was fine, but I have a bit of a surgically repaired right shoulder, so I wanted to go with the Knoxx SpecOps recoil-reducing stock. The stock performs as advertised! :cool: I can shoot slugs and 00 buckshot all day long with this beastie...

I really love the light weight of the Mossberg. And actually, I'm glad I had a reason to pull it out, because I could feel the smoothness of the action again... :)

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mixflip
09-08-2011, 18:30
You'd think Africa would have great gun laws? You'd think you could get a full auto AK for like $50 there? With no legal restrictions???

2 shot restrictions is crazy!!!....I guess I see how 800,000 people were able to be murdered in Rwanda. They disarm the people.

JFrame
09-08-2011, 18:36
You'd think Africa would have great gun laws? You'd think you could get a full auto AK for like $50 there? With no legal restrictions???

2 shot restrictions is crazy!!!....I guess I see how 800,000 people were able to be murdered in Rwanda. They disarm the people.


Ah...As it is in this country, it seems that gun laws only apply to the law-abiding... :whistling:


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nipperwolf
09-08-2011, 19:07
:rofl:


Good post, dumbass.

WoodenPlank
09-08-2011, 21:28
Okay, Gasoil -- these ain't gonna make it onto the cover of Guns & Ammo, but it's what I could do in a hurry... :supergrin:

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx12/Dennva/MossMarine02sm.jpg

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx12/Dennva/MossMarine03sm.jpg

The standard factory stock was fine, but I have a bit of a surgically repaired right shoulder, so I wanted to go with the Knoxx SpecOps recoil-reducing stock. The stock performs as advertised! :cool: I can shoot slugs and 00 buckshot all day long with this beastie...

I really love the light weight of the Mossberg. And actually, I'm glad I had a reason to pull it out, because I could feel the smoothness of the action again... :)

.

Seeing your posts just reminded me that I want the same stock on my 590. I have the breachers grip from an ill-advised foray into turning my 590 into a PGO gun, and the recoil reducing was amazing. A shame it just balanced like crap.

Feanor
09-08-2011, 22:32
Saiga 12. Then:

Mossberg 500 or Remington 870.


Coach gun, because of the laws. Mossberg Silver Reserve O/U.

Ugliest, stupidest, and most annoying avatar I've seen here.

JFrame
09-09-2011, 08:56
Seeing your posts just reminded me that I want the same stock on my 590. I have the breachers grip from an ill-advised foray into turning my 590 into a PGO gun, and the recoil reducing was amazing. A shame it just balanced like crap.


Yup -- I've rapid-fired slugs and 00 buck in my Mossberg from the hip, as fast as I could shuck the rounds, with the shoulder stock hardly braced (if at all). I was amazed at how little my shooting hand registered the sensation! :)


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ScrappyDoo
09-09-2011, 10:18
You'd think Africa would have great gun laws? You'd think you could get a full auto AK for like $50 there? With no legal restrictions???

2 shot restrictions is crazy!!!....I guess I see how 800,000 people were able to be murdered in Rwanda. They disarm the people.


Mix you usually read my mind, as you did this time- I was gonna say, to be half joiking half serious, why don't you get an AK? Is there AK laws in addition to Shotgun laws? Also what about pistol laws?

My M930SPX is my and the best HD gun in the world, i'm convinced, but if I could only have a coach gun for HD, I would take my G23 any day. Actually if you could, I would probably get a Glock with even an extended clip maybe.. (It just occured to me that in .40&W the Glock full size mag is 15 rounds not 17, and it real big one is what 22 rounds not 33? ) But seriously - I would take my Glock 23 .40S&W with a 15 round mag of premium JHP ammo over a2 shot coach gun any day. Just my humble opinion.

And again, waht of the AK? I thought Africa is the land of the AK?

JFrame
09-09-2011, 10:28
And again, waht of the AK? I thought Africa is the land of the AK?


I'm thinkin' that unless Gasoil wants to sign up with a Somali warlord or become a Congolese rebel, he's gonna have to stick with his shotgun options... :supergrin:


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Gasoil4ever
09-09-2011, 15:16
Ah...As it is in this country, it seems that gun laws only apply to the law-abiding...


As always unfortunately... :crying:

Okay, Gasoil -- these ain't gonna make it onto the cover of Guns & Ammo, but it's what I could do in a hurry... :supergrin:
The standard factory stock was fine, but I have a bit of a surgically repaired right shoulder, so I wanted to go with the Knoxx SpecOps recoil-reducing stock. The stock performs as advertised! :cool: I can shoot slugs and 00 buckshot all day long with this beastie...


Love it exactly what am i looking for :wow:

Mix you usually read my mind, as you did this time- I was gonna say, to be half joiking half serious, why don't you get an AK? Is there AK laws in addition to Shotgun laws? Also what about pistol laws?

My M930SPX is my and the best HD gun in the world, i'm convinced, but if I could only have a coach gun for HD, I would take my G23 any day. Actually if you could, I would probably get a Glock with even an extended clip maybe.. (It just occured to me that in .40&W the Glock full size mag is 15 rounds not 17, and it real big one is what 22 rounds not 33? ) But seriously - I would take my Glock 23 .40S&W with a 15 round mag of premium JHP ammo over a2 shot coach gun any day. Just my humble opinion.

And again, waht of the AK? I thought Africa is the land of the AK?

I would have kept my G19 ANYDAY vs a shotgun for HD ! I can shoot it both eyes closed and still hit my target, its safe, reliable, compact and holds a lot of power... unfortunately i can't... with a LOT of regrets :crying:

I'm thinkin' that unless Gasoil wants to sign up with a Somali warlord or become a Congolese rebel, he's gonna have to stick with his shotgun options

Wait until you visit an African jail... then you know you don't want to be outside the laws any time... :shocked: especially if you are a european foreigner... so i'll get a legal gun or stick with a machette...

Gasoil4ever
09-09-2011, 15:18
Admittedly it has been many years since I walked teh Dark Continent, but back then it was REALLY hard to get parts for U.S. shotguns compared to the European guns. Just something to keep in mind.

Thanks David, but we get a DHL plane everyday so we can get almost everything you want, and its trouble free if you are cool with the customs.

Skyhook
09-16-2011, 16:49
If I were to buy another SxS HD gun it would be one with ejector capability.
My wife's first tool in the *safe room* is a Stoeger 20GA- a sweet little gun and we've fired it enough to know it is dependable and a hoot to shoot, but extractor alone....
Years back I had a double, a Winchester, I believe, and it threw those empties right into the shirt collar of the dude standing next to me (if I did it just right).:cool:

As for the multi- my latest acquisition is the Benelli M2.. and that is about tops IMHO. It's light, fast, low in recoil. (I'm thinking of getting a M4 soon.. the clay-killing grand kid has taken a big liking to the M2.)

Weather & all, JFrame's set-up (if it's a 12) looks like a real solution. Stainless, polymer furniture..

JFrame
09-16-2011, 16:53
If I were to buy another SxS HD gun it would be one with ejector capability.
My wife's first tool in the *safe room* is a Stoeger 20GA- a sweet little gun and we've fired it enough to know it is dependable and a hoot to shoot, but extractor alone....
Years back I had a double, a Winchester, I believe, and it threw those empties right into the shirt collar of the dude standing next to me (if I did it just right).:cool:

As for the multi- my latest acquisition is the Benelli M2.. and that is about tops IMHO. It's light, fast, low in recoil. (I'm thinking of getting a M4 soon.. the clay-killing grand kid has taken a big liking to the M2.)

Weather & all, JFrame's set-up (if it's a 12) looks like a real solution. Stainless, polymer furniture..


It is, indeed, a 12... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/good2.gif


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Skyhook
09-16-2011, 17:01
It is, indeed, a 12... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/good2.gif


.
Way to go.
Back in the days when I had the FFL, I knew several serious blue water sailors and I sold them quite a few of those Mossies.. never had one gripe, not one return... no trouble at all.
I started that grandboy on the 500 combo 20.. the rest, as they say---

JFrame
09-16-2011, 17:48
Way to go.
Back in the days when I had the FFL, I knew several serious blue water sailors and I sold them quite a few of those Mossies.. never had one gripe, not one return... no trouble at all.
I started that grandboy on the 500 combo 20.. the rest, as they say---


Outstanding -- thanks for the feedback, Sky! http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/good.gif

The reputed corrosion resistance of the Marine was a major factor in opting for that model -- glad to hear some real world input to back that up! :)


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slims00ls1z28
09-16-2011, 17:53
Thanks for the feedback guys !

My first choice would be a SxS.

Thanks for the advice byf43 i'll will definetely relief the back chamber :thumbsup:

But i have been working hard on this subject and met a guy who's a close relative to a top guy in the local administration in charge of those subjects... and guess what...

I might get a hunting license open for a multiple shot 12 gauge :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Then no doubt : Mossberg 500

But then i hesitate : 500 Cruiser (Blackwater series) or a Thunder Ranch ?

On a 500 Cruiser i would most probably fit a folding stock (ATI)...

My concern is about the recoil... is it managable with a pistol grip (I am a 6"15 and nearly 200 pounds) ? Can you shoot the next shots quickly enough ?

What it does compare to ? Ammo wise i am planning on using 00 Eight Pellets reduced recoils cartridges and non lethal hard rubber cartridges (used by the french SWAT) ?

As you can see eventhough i know my way with Glocks i am a complete noob with shotguns... :whistling:

Thanks !

My 10 year old shoots my wife's as fast as he can rack it (bird shot). It rocks him but he can do it. So recoil is managable.

Another vote for a mossberg. Here's my wifes with an ATI collapsible stock and I attached the forestrap myself. Sorry for the gratuitous saiga pic but it's the only pic of her Mossberg I have at the time. Crappy cell phone pic as well.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o60/slims00ls1z28/berg-saiga.jpg?t=1316217046

David Armstrong
09-17-2011, 13:47
Thanks David, but we get a DHL plane everyday so we can get almost everything you want, and its trouble free if you are cool with the customs.
Yea, I'm sure it has improved quite a bit over the last 30 years. Plus Cameroon isn't the hole that so many other countries are over there. I'll assume by your nickname that you are over there for the energy business. Good luck, and happy Unification Day!

Angry Fist
09-17-2011, 15:19
My 10 year old shoots my wife as fast as he can rack it (bird shot). It rocks him but he can do it. So recoil is managable.

Another vote for a mossberg. Here's my wifes with an ATI collapsible stock and I attached the forestrap myself. Sorry for the gratuitous saiga pic but it's the only pic of her Mossberg I have at the time. Crappy cell phone pic as well.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o60/slims00ls1z28/berg-saiga.jpg?t=1316217046
I hope you have a bunch of American made parts in that Saiga... if not, it's illegal with that mag.

Aceman
09-17-2011, 16:18
If I could have ANY shotgun in the world for HD - Javalin's Tromix.

pugman
09-17-2011, 18:01
My 10 year old shoots my wife as fast as he can rack it (bird shot). It rocks him but he can do it. So recoil is managable.

And your wife doesn't mind :tongueout:

Thank you folks....I'm here all week