FNG unarmed/untrained wearing LE id [Archive] - Glock Talk

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KCNUKE
09-05-2011, 18:07
So our department is working a special event with thousands of drunks. We have 3 of the new guys that have just been sworn in, not trained in plain clothes for more of a ride-a-long on foot.

The part that has just been bugging me for the last couple of days is, 2 of them wearing identification. One wearing a badge on belt and the other wearing a LE jacket. Both of those 2 were unarmed.

Now, I'm not the brightest one of the bunch, but if I am in civilian clothes and unarmed, I am surely not going to wear anything that will ID me as LE. I just see it as a officer safety issue, what's your thoughts?

packsaddle
09-05-2011, 18:13
agreed.

anything identifying you as LE makes you an instant target.

Cochese
09-05-2011, 18:21
Whomever is in charge needs to direct them to remove those items. There should he a policy written regarding the conduct of trainees.

blueiron
09-05-2011, 18:27
Whomever is in charge needs to direct them to remove those items. There should he a policy written regarding the conduct of trainees.


This.

Trainees have no business IDing themselves that way. Someone needs to rip that stuff off of them and put a boot up their rears for their own safety.

Patchman
09-05-2011, 18:33
Are these 3 recruits waiting to attend the academy? Or guys who have completed some basic academy (and certified on some level as a LEO) and were hired by your agency, but just not trained by your agency?

With us, one is sworn in only after entering the academy. And no one is issued their badge until graduation day (or very close to graduation day. Certainly after they've passed their firearms qualifications, etc...). And when they're in the academy, they wear academy uniforms no matter what.

No plain cloths with a badge hanging out!

Are they being deployed for this special event you mentioned? If they are, I hope your agency knows to deploy them way in the rear with the gear. Their uniform of the day? Academy uniform with your agency's reflective traffic vest.

Hell, and make sure they're wearing their bullet resistant vest in the proper manner.

collim1
09-05-2011, 18:38
You can always spot a new state Parole officer in my area. They have a high turnover and whenever a new one gets hired he walks around advertising.

I was the exact opposite when I started. It took me a while to get comfortable displaying a badge and open carrying. Whenever I work a plainclothes detail (not often, usually training) I try to carry concealed. I am just more comfortable that way.

KCNUKE
09-05-2011, 18:42
only the 2 were the issue, the 3rd was the bright one with the common sense. They will be starting the training process soon. Sworn in as city employees... not authorized to do anything yet. Not sure what the upper mgt thought/did.

Patchman
09-05-2011, 18:53
They will be starting the training process soon. Sworn in as city employees...

If they're not sworn in as LEOs, who's the bright bulb that handed them badge?

And if these two went out and bought their own badges, they each need a swift kick in the Galls...

KCNUKE
09-05-2011, 19:10
I would back any of our officers and trust them to back me, they were in good hands, just still shaking my head. I think I will have to give them nicknames "Patches" and "Shiny". Sorry for the vent, just don't like seeing folks like us hurt...

Rabbi
09-05-2011, 19:21
I am not sure I am clear on this...

Your agency hired these guys and that is pretty much the sum total of everything...they were hired. They are not sworn, they have no training, they are just 2 folks who have been told, in a formal way, they are about to get a chance to see if they can become LEOs?

Aquanewt
09-05-2011, 22:52
these clowns sound like the types that make off duty car stops and generally give the rest of us a hard time when they screw up and get in a jackpot

jpa
09-06-2011, 01:02
Wow, I can't see that working. The one agency I used to dispatch for used to require that trainees in FTO turn in their equipment including their gun and badge at the end of their shift. When they finished training they got to take everything home and when they got off probation they were issued a wallet flat badge also.

Hack
09-06-2011, 07:32
I am guessing they did not do this with approval from anyone to do so?

Agent6-3/8
09-06-2011, 08:08
Whomever is in charge needs to direct them to remove those items. There should he a policy written regarding the conduct of trainees.


Absolutely!


Having unarmed, untrained people walking around identifying themselves as LE is at best a lawsuit waiting to happen, at worst its a tragedy.

Why does the department even have them out there?

lawman800
09-06-2011, 10:10
Wow, I can't see that working. The one agency I used to dispatch for used to require that trainees in FTO turn in their equipment including their gun and badge at the end of their shift. When they finished training they got to take everything home and when they got off probation they were issued a wallet flat badge also.

That's a bull**** policy. Just because someone is a FNG doesn't mean they will be less of a target. We tell our newer people about survival ad nauseum and make sure they carry from day one.

Back in the day, I heard of departments that did that to reserves and because reserves didn't work full time, training can take a year or more. Yeah, trust them with a gun and badge on duty but not off.

In any event, sounds like these two are civilians with no training. They have no business with any police paraphernalia until they are sworn. Even then, unless they are working plainclothes in a non-covert capacity, keep the gear under wraps. It's about safety.

Sharky7
09-06-2011, 11:08
Yeah, if you are an FTO or a supervisor I would have just pulled them aside right then and there and told them to take off the items. If only 2 of the 3 had the items, I'm betting the noobs were the ones who came up with the idea to wear them - the dumb idea.

DaBigBR
09-06-2011, 16:58
So our department is working a special event with thousands of drunks. We have 3 of the new guys that have just been sworn in, not trained in plain clothes for more of a ride-a-long on foot.

The part that has just been bugging me for the last couple of days is, 2 of them wearing identification. One wearing a badge on belt and the other wearing a LE jacket. Both of those 2 were unarmed.

Now, I'm not the brightest one of the bunch, but if I am in civilian clothes and unarmed, I am surely not going to wear anything that will ID me as LE. I just see it as a officer safety issue, what's your thoughts?

It was actually worse than described. The one with the jacket was wearing a jacket FROM A DIFFERENT AGENCY IN ANOTHER STATE that his father used to work for. The dearth of leadership that is our department doesn't see fit to tell them to do otherwise. One of them was even carrying freakin' handcuffs.

Whomever is in charge needs to direct them to remove those items. There should he a policy written regarding the conduct of trainees.

The guy that used to be in charge (cough) would have done so, but he (cough) chose to just shake his head like everybody else.

Cochese
09-06-2011, 17:30
I didn't know you guys worked together.

If you aren't gonna pull rank, at least ridicule them into compliance!

KCNUKE
09-06-2011, 17:58
I completely forgot about the handcuffs, they weren't even in a case; just dangling like earings. lol.

Merkavaboy
09-06-2011, 19:44
only the 2 were the issue, the 3rd was the bright one with the common sense. They will be starting the training process soon. Sworn in as city employees... not authorized to do anything yet. Not sure what the upper mgt thought/did.

I'll see your 3 Trainees and raise you a Volunteer!

My agency has a male volunteer who's barely out of his teens who would come in on Graveyard shift wearing a hat and jacket with the dept patch on it, take a MARKED UNIT containing both a loaded shotgun and M4 .223 rifle and go on "patrol" by himself. The shift Sgt or OIC never even questioned whether the Chief or Capt knew this was happening. It wasn't until the volunteer crashed the patrol car was his night shift antics came to a stop. And that volunteer is still a member of my department.

lawman800
09-06-2011, 22:17
We have zero tolerance for that crap. One security guy stepped just a tad over the line by doing a t-stop in his yellow light bar security car and he is now an ex-security guard.

Rabbi
09-06-2011, 22:42
I'll see your 3 Trainees and raise you a Volunteer!

My agency has a male volunteer who's barely out of his teens who would come in on Graveyard shift wearing a hat and jacket with the dept patch on it, take a MARKED UNIT containing both a loaded shotgun and M4 .223 rifle and go on "patrol" by himself. The shift Sgt or OIC never even questioned whether the Chief or Capt knew this was happening. It wasn't until the volunteer crashed the patrol car was his night shift antics came to a stop. And that volunteer is still a member of my department.

Is this a "reserve" or "just some guy..."?

There is an agency in this area (there could be more, I just know of this one) that has a patrol car that they let the "cellular on patrol" group use. This is a group of non sworn folks who do...well, I dont know what they do but they drive around in a patrol car doing it.

mixflip
09-06-2011, 22:46
If I wear a badge, I always back it up with a gun.

As Al Pacino said...nobody fears the badge...everybody fears the gun.

(Actually some idiots dont even fear guns but they are idiots to begin with.)

rookie1
09-06-2011, 22:59
I read your policy manual years ago, is there anything in there to prevent this retarded behavior. I would venture to guess if there is no one would do anything about it. This main character seems somewhat familiar. I almost think untrained, unarmed, unable folks should stay home on a day like this and stay out of the way or at least be "all or nothing meaning in full uniform is possible or full civilian cloths. I have a idea what the city is like and would push this guy out of the way to help you if SHTF. But hey, im getting paid either way. :wavey:

rookie1
09-06-2011, 23:01
We have zero tolerance for that crap. One security guy stepped just a tad over the line by doing a t-stop in his yellow light bar security car and he is now an ex-security guard.


Had one of these guys at 90 in a 65. When I got right behind him he turned on his yellow lights as if they were red and blue and I was going to pull off. Don't know what his boss thought about his ticket......Tool.

DaBigBR
09-06-2011, 23:10
I didn't know you guys worked together.

If you aren't gonna pull rank, at least ridicule them into compliance!

As you may recall, I no longer (more or less voluntarily) have any rank to pull. That particular part of our department was my responsibility, and I think that we had reached a level of professionalism that you could be proud of in that area. We appear to have regressed significantly.

I read your policy manual years ago, is there anything in there to prevent this retarded behavior. I would venture to guess if there is no one would do anything about it. This main character seems somewhat familiar. I almost think untrained, unarmed, unable folks should stay home on a day like this and stay out of the way or at least be "all or nothing meaning in full uniform is possible or full civilian cloths. I have a idea what the city is like and would push this guy out of the way to help you if SHTF. But hey, im getting paid either way. :wavey:

This is the guy we were talking about the other night. Him and the one that his references said not to hire. Their new "leader" was on duty all day, but we only saw him a couple times...I guess he showed up, took a car, and vanished...worked all alone until his buddy came in.

Naelbis
09-07-2011, 12:26
I work in County Corrections, my uniform is identical to that of our patrol division except without all the bells and whistles on the belt. I have to do transports and escorts all the time outside of the perimeter and I do not get a weapon or radio. I can't even arrest anyone if they try to help an inmate escape or assault me. So I can believe that there are agencies out there that allow this kind of idiocy.

larry_minn
09-07-2011, 14:39
Few yrs back I did a ride along with a urban dept. (my sister moved into that community/I wanted to find out about it quickly) I had a decent Officer. (we went back to station to pick up my Glock as he said it didn't do any good in my car) :) A Assult (where I spotted the suspect later so he got hauled in) :) Then a road rage. At this point the Officer had his hands full, suggested I do part of ride with the "Citizens on Patrol" (I forget the title they used) group. Basicly 2 guys in a older SUV marked/lights/radio. They did not have personal radios or any type of weapon. (so I was only armed on in it/I did NOT tell them) They had VERY similar "uniforms" except for belt, driving a marked unit. Seemed to me a bad idea. BTW no vests either.

NoGlamour229
09-08-2011, 02:30
I love it!

lndshark
09-08-2011, 09:32
When I was attending the reserve academy there were two recruits from a nearby department (one older retired gentleman and a very young Tackleberry-esque fellow). Their sponsoring department let them drive a marked, albeit dated, Explorer, with a full complement of patrol equipment (minus long gun). Aside from blipping the airhorn a time or two they pretty much behaved themselves while driving it. But, when we'd have meal breaks, they would offer rides to other recruits. A whole mess of guys would pile into that thing and they'd head to a local restaurant on the outskirts of the 'hood. I have a strict personal policy of no guns, no police references. It was early on in our training so we were not yet permitted to even CCW on the academy grounds. This didn't deter these guys though. The last thing I wanted to do was hang out at the local Wendy's in Yacktown, unarmed, cruising around in a company car.

lawman800
09-08-2011, 10:34
No gun. No LE anything.

Yes gun. Same deal unless in uniform.

RVER
09-08-2011, 11:11
If your going to dress up like a warrior you better have the heart and skill level to back it up. Todays wolf isn't fooled by an "empty suit" and they certainly don't mind getting close enough to give you a "sniff" test to find out if your a sheep dog or a lamb dressed up to look like a dog ...