Remington Police Model [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kyle7748
09-06-2011, 23:59
I have recently developed the unshakeable urge to buy one but I am having a very hard time finding one for sale at any of my LGS. Would it be wise to get an 870 Express, change the barrel to around 18-20" and add an extension? I am unsure of the quality differences and I estimate the price would be around the same.

mainegunner
09-07-2011, 03:51
The 870P does seem to be a little hard to find sometimes. Aippi has more knowledge about this then I ever will. The 870P has wood furniture and the finish is parkerized and I think the extractor is steel and not a mim part. Maybe aippi will chime in on this and fill you in.

Vigilant
09-08-2011, 08:53
Gunbroker

Andrewsky
09-08-2011, 09:31
I have recently developed the unshakeable urge to buy one but I am having a very hard time finding one for sale at any of my LGS. Would it be wise to get an 870 Express, change the barrel to around 18-20" and add an extension? I am unsure of the quality differences and I estimate the price would be around the same.

There's quite a difference between the Police and the Express.

SCSU74
09-08-2011, 10:13
There's quite a difference between the Police and the Express.

no there really isn't. go with the express that already has the +2 ext (got mine for $300), updated 2 parts to make it the same as police model ($10), wilson combat +2 extension ($45 shipped), XS big dot front sight ($30), MI sling adaptor ($20), solid sling ($30) and you're good to go! For more contact Aippi or
http://www.aiptactical.com/ he helped me immensely with mine!

Andrewsky
09-08-2011, 15:40
It depends on the configuration, but for the purposes of the OP, they are quite different.

He could buy a new Express with an 18.5" barrel. On the other hand, he might find a used Police online that has features that never come on a new Express, like Speedfeed furniture, parkerized finish, various materially different small parts (trigger group, extractor), fixed imp. cyl choke, and also the smoother action. You can't just turn an Express into your typical Police-issue 870 without a lot of work and changes.

Sidebar: the Express has a much rougher action than a Police or Wingmaster. In my opinion, this is not trivial since it's a manually-operated firearm.

I'm not an expert but I have a Police, Wingmaster, and Express and I've been shooting the 870 regularly since I was 13 years old.

Ferdinandd
09-08-2011, 20:20
I want a Police model 870 also. I have an 870 Tactical. I passed up a blue/wood p model for $399 when a local shop had bought a bunch back in 2004. Boy do I regret that.

The deep blue finish and walnut stocks just have a classic look to them that the Express models lack. The action on the p models seemed slicker right out of the box.

Functionally and structurally, the Express and p-molels are pretty much the same. There are a few different parts, but these differences aren't noticeable for me from a function standpoint. With use and perhaps some emory cloth, the Express will eventually feel like the p-model. My observations are based on owning two express 870's and one Wingmaster. By no means do I claim to be an expert.

SCSU74
09-08-2011, 23:21
It depends on the configuration, but for the purposes of the OP, they are quite different.

He could buy a new Express with an 18.5" barrel. On the other hand, he might find a used Police online that has features that never come on a new Express, like Speedfeed furniture, parkerized finish, various materially different small parts (trigger group, extractor), fixed imp. cyl choke, and also the smoother action. You can't just turn an Express into your typical Police-issue 870 without a lot of work and changes.

Sidebar: the Express has a much rougher action than a Police or Wingmaster. In my opinion, this is not trivial since it's a manually-operated firearm.

I'm not an expert but I have a Police, Wingmaster, and Express and I've been shooting the 870 regularly since I was 13 years old.

the only different parts are the extractor, and carrier dog follower spring. Both are easily replaced...

pezzulli
09-09-2011, 08:33
Here's what Remington says about the differance between the Express and the Police guns:

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police:

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

HTH,
John

aippi
09-09-2011, 09:03
Pez - Every time the issue comes ups some guy goes to Remington web site and paste this out dated marketing mess. That mess is years old and has very little to do with these models. So please don't take it as a personal attack but for what it is, a statement of fact since you posted false information. When an OP asks a question they deserve a correct answer so anyone responding should check their facts.

Here are the facts.

All Remington shotguns go through the same inspections. No where on what you pasted does it say only the P models get this. They have to for liability reasons.

No Remington shotguns come with the J-lock any longer and have not for years.

Most Express and Tactical Models do come with the Short LE forend.

Express and Tactical Models do come with the Remington LE Tube Extension and need no Modification. Therefor every Model that comes with the LE extension also comes with a barrel that has a detent ball on the barrel ring to retain the mag tube coupling.

All Shotgun receivers are Vibra honed. Nothing on what you have pasted states only the P receivers are done this way.

All 870's come with the same Ejector and remington only makes one Ejector for all the 870's. Check the parts list.

Police Models do come with MIM parts.

Remington stopped putting the heavy sears in the P models two years ago and every Remington Shotgun comes with the same sear except the Trap Models and they come with a Competion sear.

What you have pasted is out dated, misleading and some is out right false. Not your fault John as it is a shame that Remington leaves outdated marketing mess on their web site.

Andrewsky
09-09-2011, 09:23
the only different parts are the extractor, and carrier dog follower spring. Both are easily replaced...

There are several parts that are different other than just those two. For example, the trigger housing on an Express is plastic. This isn't to say that all the different parts on a Police are better, but you cannot simply take an Express, change out two parts, and have a Police.

Besides, your Express has a J-lock and is incompatible with many shotgun vehicle racks! /joke about the outdated Remington list.:tongueout:

SCSU74
09-09-2011, 09:46
There are several parts that are different other than just those two. For example, the trigger housing on an Express is plastic. This isn't to say that all the different parts on a Police are better, but you cannot simply take an Express, change out two parts, and have a Police.

Besides, your Express has a J-lock and is incompatible with many shotgun vehicle racks! /joke about the outdated Remington list.:tongueout:

sorry i meant the parts that matter. My express came w/ +2 ext from factory so replacing it with a quality extension (Wilson) was not an issue. Mine also came with the shorter fore end, fits in every rack i have tried including those in our new chargers. As far as the trigger housing i would rather have the express version as it will not chip or dent. What are the other parts that are different besides the 1 part that you listed and the 2 i already mentioned? I agree the finish on the express sucks, but i had mine cerakoted so that is a non issue...

aippi
09-09-2011, 11:57
Of course you can't change out two parts and have a Police because you have to engrave the Word Police on it and charge yourself another $200.

But you will have an 870 with all the exact same parts as the Police, except you will have a more durable polymer trigger plate housing. Every F'en part will now be the same.

Andrewsky
09-09-2011, 19:07
You all are looking at me like I just ran over your dog.

SCSU74
09-10-2011, 09:59
You all are looking at me like I just ran over your dog.

not really... just trying to save the OP some money. If you like the police model and have extra money then that is probably the best option for you. I just feel like the express is a great option and i am not losing much if anything by going with that option instead of the police model.

fiasconva
09-10-2011, 14:03
Check the sigforum classifieds. Someone on there has 8 police trade-ins for sale there.

El_Ron1
09-10-2011, 14:49
All sold.

copaup
09-13-2011, 21:17
Only gripe I have with my express is the matte blue finish. I've never had a speck of rust on it, but it doesn't look as nice as the bluing on the gun I have at work. Well, I'd really like that 14 inch barrel too, but not enough to invest the time and money on a NFA stamp.

Andrewsky
09-13-2011, 21:55
Only gripe I have with my express is the matte blue finish. I've never had a speck of rust on it, but it doesn't look as nice as the bluing on the gun I have at work. Well, I'd really like that 14 inch barrel too, but not enough to invest the time and money on a NFA stamp.

The finish on the Express is pretty awful.

B Coyote
09-13-2011, 22:14
The finish on the Express is pretty awful.

Remington should be ashamed of themselves for this finish.

bc

Andrewsky
09-14-2011, 01:29
Remington should be ashamed of themselves for this finish.

bc

Well, to be fair, you can get an Express for half the price of a Glock pistol.

I haven't had any troubles at all with my Express. I can't say it's less reliable than my Police or Wingmaster.

What I've been saying in this thread is that there are several differences between an Express and Police. The significance of these differences is something we can debate to no end. However, in the interest of being exact, it just isn't appropriate to say that only 3 or 4 things are different between an Express and Police.

I'm no expert, but the following are a few things that are nearly guaranteed to be different between a typical stock Express and Police:

-magazine cap (Police has sling swivel stud)
-furniture
-extractor
-finish
-trigger group
-barrel (a Police might have an imp. cyl barrel, an 18.5" barrel Express is likely to have a cyl. bore barrel)

aippi
09-14-2011, 08:01
The issues are the things that make the weapon function not the appearance. To many people are touting the P model as being build with better parts, which of course is a lie as every part is the same except the ones we mentioned. They are also making claims the P is smoother and that is also not true.

If the issue was cosmetic then the Express HD is a very different weapon then the standard Express model with laminated wood stock, 28" VT barrel and no tube extension. Yet, these are the exact same weapons with different clothes on. Get the weapon because you want the finish and the features that come on it.

If you want a great weapon with a parkerized finish and have the money get the P model. If money is a concern, and it is for many these days, do not get that weapon because you think it is far superior to the Express HD, it is not, it is the same weapon but with a better finish and a couple differences that are as much marketing as anything else.

If you don't think most of this is marketing, then explain this. The spring used in all other 870's as the carrier dog follower spring cost $3.20. The spring used in the P model for the carrier dog follower spring cost $3.20 and Remington touts the superior performance this spring gives the weapon. SO EXPLAIN TO ME THIS.... Since the spring in P model gives superior performance (and it does) and cost the same F'en $3.20 why do they noT put it in every F'en 870 ????????

The above answer is simple to anyone who will consider the question for a few seconds. IT IS MARKETING AND USEING THE SAME SPRING IN EVERY 870 TAKES A MARKETING POINT AWAY FROM THE P MODEL. See the marketing points for the P model are very few these days as they are putting features on the Hd that used to only be availible on the P.

I am sure someone will read the above and come up with a different answer as there are guys that just don't get it and never will.

And if anyone does not get this then go to the Remington parts list and look at part number 242247 and you will see that is the barrel that comes standard on the Express Home Defense and retails for $134 on the part list. Now look at part number 242243 and you will see that is the barrel that comes standard on the 870 Police and retails for $101. Yes, the Express 18.5" bead sight barrel is $33 more dollars then the Parkerized 18.5" Bead sight barrel that comes standard on the police.

pezzulli
09-15-2011, 18:56
JD wrote:"Pez - Every time the issue comes ups some guy goes to Remington web site and paste this out dated marketing mess......."

Thanks for the correction JD.
Regards,
John