38 load with Rainier and Bullseye, too hot? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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2TheRange
09-08-2011, 15:23
Iíve only had my Lee Classic for a few months and so far have reloaded and fired about 400-500 rounds each of .38spl and .45acp. I purchased both some Hornady XTP JHPís and Rainier plated round nose bullets in both calibers and have been trying different loads.

My last batch of .38 with XTP 125gr JHPís loaded them up with 4.3 gr of Bullseye and they shot great in my Ruger LCR with 1.85Ē barrel. I loaded up some of the Rainier 125gr bullets and didnít change out the disk and so charged those rounds with 4.3 gr of BE.

The same load with Rainier kicked like a mule big time. I know Rainier says to load their bullets like they were lead which is typically lighter charges. I did not intent to load the Rainiers that hot and wonít be doing it again, but could not find any data that says that 4.3gr is not safe for 125gr lead. The gun is rated for +P and I didnít see any signs of over pressure but my questions are as follows:


1. I have about 50 rounds left of the Rainier with 4.3gr loads. I did not see any signs of over pressure, but I donít have a chronograph. Should I pull all those and start over or are they safe to shoot?


2. Why would a lead (or Rainier) bullet with the same load create more pressure than the XTP JHP?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Rick

WiskyT
09-08-2011, 15:55
The difference between the Ranuers and the XTP's shouldn't effect recoil at all, let alone the way you describe it. I'd check the weight on those bullets and make sure they are both 125's.

fredj338
09-08-2011, 16:51
2. Why would a lead (or Rainier) bullet with the same load create more pressure than the XTP JHP?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Rick
Plated bullets load closer to lead. So if you are using a max jacketed load, it will be over pressure using lead or plated. Soft lead slug w/ a thin copper wash means they bump up & seal the bore better, raising pressure & vel. Back your loads off to 4.1gr, should be about the same as jacketed. Likw WT said, make sure they are 125gr but that is the rule of thumb for plated.:dunno:

2TheRange
09-08-2011, 18:26
Thanks for the replies guys, I guess I didn't realize there would be so much more pressure from the different type of bullet, but they are indeed 125gr.

I'm going to load a bunch more up at the lighter charge and I'll shoot a few more rounds of the existing to compare. I may just pull 'em if they really feel too hot, but the day I shot them before is the first time my hand go sore with this gun.

WiskyT
09-08-2011, 19:44
That's basically a cowboy action round. I don't see how the recoil could be hurting you unless you have arthritis or something. I shot tons of lead 125's with 4.5 Bullseye out of my airweight 442 and the recoil was much lighter than 158's. If I went much below 4.5, the cases didn't obturate.

fredj338
09-09-2011, 00:55
Thanks for the replies guys, I guess I didn't realize there would be so much more pressure from the different type of bullet, but they are indeed 125gr.

I'm going to load a bunch more up at the lighter charge and I'll shoot a few more rounds of the existing to compare. I may just pull 'em if they really feel too hot, but the day I shot them before is the first time my hand go sore with this gun.

I've never fired a 38sp in anything that made my hand hurt. Triple check the charge wts too. Something isn't quite right.

2TheRange
09-12-2011, 09:47
I wanted to get back with what I tried on this situation and what I found out. First I pulled several of the Rainier loads that seemed too hot and the charges were all what I thought they were, 4.3gr. I donít know if this makes any difference but I noticed that the weight of the bullets varied with some as low as 120gr with none that I weighed actually weighing 124gr. The Hornady XTP all weighed 124gr even on my RSCS 5-0-5.

I took the remaining rounds of 124gr Rainiers loaded with 4.3gr of BE along with some Iíd made of 124gr XTP JHPís with 4.3gr of BE to the range and compared. The felt recoil on the JHPís was negligible compared to the Rainiers kicking considerably more. Looking back I think I over exaggerated the felt recoil from my previous range session. But when I felt it was hurting my hand, I had just finished a 150 rounds of 45ACP before I started shooting the .38. I guess I was fatigued. I donít know maybe being a new reloader Iíve only shot so many rounds in one session a couple of times before and they were all at minimum charges, I guess I was feeling it more than I expected and got worried Iíd done something really wrong. On this last session I shot the .38 loads and made my comparisons first. Didnít hurt my hand but was able to feel the differences in recoil.

For another comparison of felt recoil, I fired several rounds of my Hornady Critical Defense ammo which is 110gr bullet rated at 1010fts and 249 ft-lbs. Very comparable recoil to the Rainiers with 4.3gr of BE.

So I really appreciate everyoneís input but guess I donít have a problem other than being very inexperienced. Lesson for me is when you find a recipe that works, put it in your recipe book and follow it exactly and be sure not to overload lead or plated bullets, they act very different than jacketed.

Beanie-Bean
09-12-2011, 11:19
Good info. I got the same advice from the guys regarding lead bullets I got on sale at Midway. They were having 9mm 125 gr. Speer on closeout, so I ordered a few boxes haven't loaded any of hat stuff up yet, but have read a lot regarding loads, pressures, and crimps.

I don't need a hot load for lead. They're primarily for shooting holes inpaper targets on the cheap.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences. I'll refer back to this when I eventually load out .38

WiskyT
09-12-2011, 16:53
I wanted to get back with what I tried on this situation and what I found out. First I pulled several of the Rainier loads that seemed too hot and the charges were all what I thought they were, 4.3gr. I donít know if this makes any difference but I noticed that the weight of the bullets varied with some as low as 120gr with none that I weighed actually weighing 124gr. The Hornady XTP all weighed 124gr even on my RSCS 5-0-5.

I took the remaining rounds of 124gr Rainiers loaded with 4.3gr of BE along with some Iíd made of 124gr XTP JHPís with 4.3gr of BE to the range and compared. The felt recoil on the JHPís was negligible compared to the Rainiers kicking considerably more. Looking back I think I over exaggerated the felt recoil from my previous range session. But when I felt it was hurting my hand, I had just finished a 150 rounds of 45ACP before I started shooting the .38. I guess I was fatigued. I donít know maybe being a new reloader Iíve only shot so many rounds in one session a couple of times before and they were all at minimum charges, I guess I was feeling it more than I expected and got worried Iíd done something really wrong. On this last session I shot the .38 loads and made my comparisons first. Didnít hurt my hand but was able to feel the differences in recoil.

For another comparison of felt recoil, I fired several rounds of my Hornady Critical Defense ammo which is 110gr bullet rated at 1010fts and 249 ft-lbs. Very comparable recoil to the Rainiers with 4.3gr of BE.

So I really appreciate everyoneís input but guess I donít have a problem other than being very inexperienced. Lesson for me is when you find a recipe that works, put it in your recipe book and follow it exactly and be sure not to overload lead or plated bullets, they act very different than jacketed.

Better safe than sorry. You had something that didn't seem right and you could have ignored it, but you chose to re-examine things. That's the smart thing to do.

Theoretically, the softer plated bullet might obturate the bore better, rasing pressure and making the powder burn more efficiently. This would boost velocity and yield more recoil.

TacDad
09-13-2011, 21:53
I load 125 gr berrys with 4.0 gr BE for a very light practice load / I do not think your load is too hot at all, and as long as no signs of HP then you should be fine . BTW the recoil in such a light gun is going to be pretty significant anyways, and you shouldn't feel much difference between the two.