Gay Marriage Amendment [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Gay Marriage Amendment


Calico Jack
09-13-2011, 03:15
The NC House has decided to let voters decide next May as to whether or not they want to add a provision to the state constitution that defines marriage between one man and one woman.

I was just curious as to whether or not your state has a similar provision in your states constitution?

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/129638638.html

HerrGlock
09-13-2011, 04:42
No clue and couldn't care less either way.

tarpleyg
09-13-2011, 04:52
Not even sure what gives a government the right to define marriage.

faawrenchbndr
09-13-2011, 04:55
Not even sure what gives a government the right to define marriage.


God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:

GLWyandotte
09-13-2011, 05:04
Civil unions, fine. Sanctify perversion, whatever.
Marriage- is it really worth ammending a constitution over?
I also believe God defined marraige and am sick of people changing church views and standards to "keep up with the times." The Bible has not changed, leaders and morality have.

21Carrier
09-13-2011, 05:04
Who cares? The way I look at it, there's NO WAY someone would CHOOSE to be gay. With the lifetime of discrimination and persecution they are bound to receive, NO ONE would do it on purpose. That means they are wired that way, and cannot help it. Let them be happy. This country was not founded on the principle of limiting people's rights, and now is not a good time to start it. I don't want someone telling me I can't carry a gun, so I wouldn't appreciate someone telling me who I can or can't marry. The way I see it, the more rights that get taken away, the more we all get hurt. Even though gay marriage is not a right I will ever use, it's also not something I think the government should decide. The more we let our government control what we do, the more they will think we NEED them to control what we do. And that's not how it's supposed to work.

nelamvr6
09-13-2011, 05:04
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:

God is absolutely man's worst invention.

21Carrier
09-13-2011, 05:07
I think this is gonna turn nasty in a hurry.

Geeorge
09-13-2011, 05:10
God is absolutely man's worst invention.

:wavey:

Rick O'Shay
09-13-2011, 05:11
My home state will be one of the last handful to address it.

magpie maniac
09-13-2011, 05:11
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:

Har, har. Never heard that one before. :upeyes: Actually, Adam and Eve are fictional characters so I'm not really sure how they help settle 21st century issues.

The NC amendment moves to the state senate today. We are the last southern state that hasn't amended its state constitution to appease the insecurity of the religious right. If it goes to the voters in May, it'll be an interesting public debate. My marriage to my wife and the family we have are not threatened by the relationship of a same-sex couple. During a period of high unemployment and economic insecurity, this issue should be the last of our worries.

IT0
09-13-2011, 05:12
No clue and couldn't care less either way.

Ditto and....

Not even sure what gives a government the right to define marriage.

Ditto

You see how this works is when the politicians want to do something and do it without us paying much attention, all they have to do is pull a hot button topic out of the bag and redirect our attention to it, instead of what they are really doing as they line their own pockets.

The gay marriage thing is one of those hot button topics they use to get us to look the other way.... Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

failsafe
09-13-2011, 05:18
My favorite quote....

Kinky Friedman Quotes

I support gay marriage. I believe they have a right to be as miserable as the rest of us.
Kinky Friedman

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 05:19
I say get the gummint completely out of the marriage bidness and treat everyone the same. Of course, that means no more protected class status based on your sexual preferences.

nelamvr6
09-13-2011, 05:25
I say get the gummint completely out of the marriage bidness and treat everyone the same. Of course, that means no more protected class status based on your sexual preferences.

It would also be nice to get religion out of gummint...

21Carrier
09-13-2011, 05:28
It would also be nice to get religion out of gummint...

It will happen, just probably not in our lifetimes. At one point religion WAS the government. We have come a ways since then. We still have a way to go. However, I would rather see corruption leave the government. Unfortunately, that is a much more powerful affliction.

Bluestreakfl
09-13-2011, 05:28
I know I certainly did not choose to be gay. I just am, and always have been. Doesn't make me any less of a person, doesn't mean I should have any less right to marry the person I love. Isn't there that thing called separation of religion and state? The church should have nothing to do with wether or not same sex marriage is legal or not. It's not for them to decide. This is the united states of america, land of the free. Our country was founded on freedom from oppression. It seems like we have lost so much sight of that over foolish prejudices. The government needs to grow a pair, and the church needs to let go of them.


OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors.

nelamvr6
09-13-2011, 05:31
I know I certainly did not choose to be gay. I just am, and always have been. Doesn't make me any less of a person, doesn't mean I should have any less right to marry the person I love. Isn't there that thing called separation of religion and state? The church should have nothing to do with wether or not same sex marriage is legal or not. It's not for them to decide. This is the united states of america, land of the free. Our country was founded on freedom from oppression. It seems like we have lost so much sight of that over foolish prejudices. The government needs to grow a pair, and the church needs to let go of them.


OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors.

Hear hear!

Psychman
09-13-2011, 05:36
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".


At some point in the not too distant future, seeing a Gay Married couple will be no more noteworthy than say, seeing a black person riding in the front of the bus, seeing women vote, or seeing your neighbor going to the church, or temple of their chosing.

IT0
09-13-2011, 05:46
It would also be nice to get religion out of gummint...

It would be nice to get rid of trolls too.

RevToTheRedline
09-13-2011, 05:49
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:

Please leave the god freak stuff elsewhere, thanks.

Funny thing thing is my best and most loyal friends are gay or lesbian, some of the worst people i've met are people like you. I live in the south not by choice and I have to put up with this church church church crap all day long at work and wherever I go, i do NOT need it on here too.

I support gay rights 100%

MLM
09-13-2011, 05:54
The local paper ran an online poll asking if gay marriage should be banned in NC. 75% of those who responded to the poll says yes.
Of course, once it reaches the polls and the people have spoken against gay marriage some court will come along and declare it unconstitutional.

BlayGlock
09-13-2011, 05:56
An interesting observation about this thread: both sides of the debate are making moral pronouncements whether they admit it or not.

That is all.

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 05:56
It would also be nice to get religion out of gummint...I really don't see religion as being in gummint. Can you expand on your thought a little?

nelamvr6
09-13-2011, 06:03
The local paper ran an online poll asking if gay marriage should be banned in NC. 75% of those who responded to the poll says yes.
Of course, once it reaches the polls and the people have spoken against gay marriage some court will come along and declare it unconstitutional.

Because it obviously IS unconstitutional.

Check out the 14th amendment...

This is not without precedent.

I'm sure that if you took a poll in 1950's NC there would have been overwhelming support for restricting African Americans' rights.

And though a very popular opinion at that time, it would have been just as wrong (and Un-American) as restricting rights based on sexual orientation.

nelamvr6
09-13-2011, 06:06
I really don't see religion as being in gummint. Can you expand on your thought a little?

You must be kidding!

Check out every single blue law anywhere in this country... they all mandate restrictions on Sunday. You think the choice of that day is coincidental?

If religion wasn't in government, why would we even be debating gay marriage? The only objections to gay marriage are based on religious beliefs.

pugman
09-13-2011, 06:07
You have to admit. Politicans aren't the smartest bunch...but they sure are sly.

They will have you fighting over this for months or even years...and all the while they will rob your state blind.


God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:

Adam and Eve were I assume of the same race. Given this logic, the states eventually will try and define marriage as legal only between members of the same race....

Completely serious question: did Adam and Eve ever technically get married?

Brucev
09-13-2011, 06:07
Fine. The same crowd of debauched abnormals lost even in krazifornia. Let them spend their money in NC. It's leave them less to spend in support of left-wing liberal demokrats in 2012.

eracer
09-13-2011, 06:07
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:So who exactly did Adam bang in order to continue the species?

nelamvr6
09-13-2011, 06:08
An interesting observation about this thread: both sides of the debate are making moral pronouncements whether they admit it or not.

That is all.


I am saying that it is immoral to restrict someone's rights based on their sexual orientation.

And I am saying that it is immoral for a religious zealot to attempt to force his/her beliefs on others.

Is that what you meant?

Rick O'Shay
09-13-2011, 06:12
In my estimation, GT stock just went up >50%, based on feedback here.

To define an individual by what goes on in his/her bedroom is as ludicrous as being defined by skin color, eye color, height, weight, or ability to sing. And, for the government to withhold citizens' rights from those who have different leanings in sex, politics, or sports preference is just wrong on every level.

Hines57
09-13-2011, 06:21
Hopefully my state is smart enough not to get involved with stupid crap like this.

RevToTheRedline
09-13-2011, 06:23
Hopefully my state is smart enough not to get involved with stupid crap like this.

What stupid crap would that be?

Hines57
09-13-2011, 06:27
Is this topic related to the OP being a purple pirate?

Cmacc
09-13-2011, 06:29
"

Its not in any of this nation's founding documents and it never was.

magpie maniac
09-13-2011, 06:33
If the politicians were serious about protecting the sanctity of marriage, they'd propose a state constitutional amendment outlawing divorce. Pretty sure that's not going to happen.

F14Scott
09-13-2011, 06:34
From the time I was very little, I have found a particular type of person attractive: female, blonde, pretty eyes, feminine, etc. I had crushes on my kindergarten teacher, Miss Fisher, and on Jenny L. in 1st grade, both of whom met this conventional standard. In other words, I know I've been straight for as long as I have memories of being alive. I'm wired to like pretty women.

Now, if someone tried to tell me to look at a guy and feel attraction, it simply would never, ever work. Call me wrong, beat me up, lock me in a room, whatever; you would never, ever be able to convince me that a man is sexually attractive. It's just not possible.

So, I figure, it is with gay people. It's not a choice; it's either genetic or conditioned very early in development (or some combination) .

ATL Peach Girl
09-13-2011, 06:37
I think this is gonna turn nasty in a hurry. this.

nelamvr6
09-13-2011, 06:37
"

Its not in any of this nation's founding documents and it never was.

That specific phrase is not found in the constitution, but the constitution does prohibit the establishment of an official religion.

In the First Amendment we find:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.


The separation phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of the constitution, and the intent of the constitution's framers is clear, as it's spelled out in the first amendment.

No matter how much religious zealots would like to drag us back into ignorance, we will not have an official religion,and there WILL be a wall of separation between church and state.

Cmacc
09-13-2011, 06:39
People say no one would choose to be gay. But homosexuality is nothing more than sinful behavior. No different than my lustful thoughts, greed, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. To say that no one would ever choose to do these things is simply ridiculous.

Where Christians go wrong is in thinking that someone who is homosexual is a bomb that might go off at any time and get "ickey" all over them. They are people, just like me, with a nature that tempts them to perversion of what is right.

The reason this becomes such a hot topic is that the gay lobby is moving to use government to sanction their perversion and force the rest of the society to celebrate it. I hide my perversions in the closet, admit them at appropriate times and strive every day to do better.

I treat gay persons just like I treat everyone else. I know some who are. If they are openly flaunting it and demanding that I celebrate their sin, then I say something in the same manner I would if someone admitted cheating on their taxes or screwing around on their wife. If they persist in their demands, I slowly choose to spend less time with them.

Chuck TX
09-13-2011, 06:40
Everybody should be able to sign a really bad contract and have the opportunity to lose half of what they own, up to and including future earnings. :rofl:

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 06:43
You must be kidding!No, I am attempting to discuss the issue with you as an intelligent adult. Want to continue?

Check out every single blue law anywhere in this country... they all mandate restrictions on Sunday. You think the choice of that day is coincidental?OK, take a deep breath. Now, I don't have time to "Check out every single blue law anywhere in this country", so how about you specifying one or two instances in which government is making laws based on religion. Present your position clearly and unemotionally and let's discuss it.

If religion wasn't in government, why would we even be debating gay marriage? The only objections to gay marriage are based on religious beliefs.Marriage is regulated by the government in order to provide for the children of those marriages. Many people object to gay marriage because it doesn't promote childrearing. It is not solely for religious reasons.

eracer
09-13-2011, 06:44
That specific phrase is not found in the constitution, but the constitution does prohibit the establishment of an official religion.

In the First Amendment we find:




The separation phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of the constitution, and the intent of the constitution's framers is clear, as it's spelled out in the first amendment.

No matter how much religious zealots would like to drag us back into ignorance, we will not have an official religion,and there WILL be a wall of separation between church and state.Don't even bother.

Convincing the zealots that the Christian founders understood that no religion should be forced upon its citizens by the State, is like trying to convince the crippled that Benny Hinn can't really heal them.

ATL Peach Girl
09-13-2011, 06:46
I have a transgender niece.......ever since she was a toddler (2 or 3 years old) she fought her mother when she tried to put a dress on her proclaiming "mommy, I'm a BOY, I don't want to wear a dress". I specifically remember her saying this a few times.

This was NOT her choice.......I truly believe that there is something chemical or biological in why she wants to be the opposite sex. I also support her, as does her mother. She loves her child no matter what gender she is.

I also agree that being gay is NOT a choice in most cases. It's NATURE....not NURTURE.

I have had a gay guy friend of mine say "do you think I wanted to be gay and have to go through life where society doesn't accept??....I was with a girl in HS and getting intimate with her made me SICK....physically sick".

So there you have it.

OctoberRust
09-13-2011, 06:46
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:


The United States was never a christian nation and will never be a christian nation. - Thomas Jefferson

SouthernGal
09-13-2011, 07:12
The NC House has decided to let voters decide next May as to whether or not they want to add a provision to the state constitution that defines marriage between one man and one woman.

I was just curious as to whether or not your state has a similar provision in your states constitution?

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/129638638.html

Yes we did and yes it passed.
Too many Southern Baptists here to think that it wouldn't.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 07:28
All the people here criing that it is against god, you need to remember some of those teachings you are criing about. Something like People in glass houses should not throw rocks maybe not exactly that but I know its says something about throw'n rocks.

Also I does not come out and say it but Your god gave people free will to choose so who are you to so somebody can not choose.

I think the dems. should just propose a ban on gay unions and attach a bann on everything Gun to it. Then all of the bible beaters could choose guns or gays.

And for all you christians Matthew 5:22 is a good place to start.

Henry's Dad
09-13-2011, 07:37
That specific phrase is not found in the constitution, but the constitution does prohibit the establishment of an official religion.

The separation phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of the constitution, and the intent of the constitution's framers is clear, as it's spelled out in the first amendment.

No matter how much religious zealots would like to drag us back into ignorance, we will not have an official religion,and there WILL be a wall of separation between church and state.

One point of clarification: TJ was not a framer of the Constitution. He wrote the Declaration of Independence, but was in France during the summer of 1787 when the Constitutional Convention met in Philadelphia.

As to church vs. state, one could argue that the framers were more concerned with the state co-opting religion for its political ends (as in the Church of England), than with religion (in a generic sense) influencing government. Hence, we have "In God We Trust" on our currency.

Note in the First Amendment the phrase "establishment of religion." "Establishment" was understood by the framers to refer to a state church, such as the Church of England (ie, the Establishment).

SouthernGal
09-13-2011, 07:52
I have a transgender niece.......ever since she was a toddler (2 or 3 years old) she fought her mother when she tried to put a dress on her proclaiming "mommy, I'm a BOY, I don't want to wear a dress". I specifically remember her saying this a few times.

This was NOT her choice.......I truly believe that there is something chemical or biological in why she wants to be the opposite sex. I also support her, as does her mother. She loves her child no matter what gender she is.

I also agree that being gay is NOT a choice in most cases. It's NATURE....not NURTURE.

I have had a gay guy friend of mine say "do you think I wanted to be gay and have to go through life where society doesn't accept??....I was with a girl in HS and getting intimate with her made me SICK....physically sick".

So there you have it.

I agree..."born this way".

GLWyandotte
09-13-2011, 08:03
All the people here criing that it is against god, you need to remember some of those teachings you are criing about. Something like People in glass houses should not throw rocks maybe not exactly that but I know its says something about throw'n rocks.

Also I does not come out and say it but Your god gave people free will to choose so who are you to so somebody can not choose.

I think the dems. should just propose a ban on gay unions and attach a bann on everything Gun to it. Then all of the bible beaters could choose guns or gays.

And for all you christians Matthew 5:22 is a good place to start.


So I guess Theology wasn't your strong suit.

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 08:15
I would say on balance that the government has been involved in far more promotion of humanist ideas than religious ones, especially for the last 50 years or so. Many people give great lip service to separating church and state, except for the church of liberalism, which is promoted by the state at every turn.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 08:58
So I guess Theology wasn't your strong suit.

Well thats the funny thing about religion and the bible. I could go to 10000 different christian church and all of them would have a different view on something. I could ask Millions of christians their interpretation on any verse and they would be differrent. So you tell me were in that post I was lacking in Theology so that I may better my point of view.

Glock30Eric
09-13-2011, 09:16
Why they don't just accept "Civil Union" and end with it? They won't because they want to be on par with the straight people. Sorry they will never get to it. Sorry we gotta to be discrimination agaisnt gay, like or not then move to different country.

GLWyandotte
09-13-2011, 09:36
Well thats the funny thing about religion and the bible. I could go to 10000 different christian church and all of them would have a different view on something. I could ask Millions of christians their interpretation on any verse and they would be differrent. So you tell me were in that post I was lacking in Theology so that I may better my point of view.

Well for one, there is nothing in the Bible about glass houses and rocks- that is a proverb.
Millions of Christians will indeed have a million interpretations, but the one constant is that the Bible does not change. Whenever a cause du jour erupts, many Christians interpret the Bible and manipulate their interpretation to fit what they see as a needed change.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 09:36
Why they don't just accept "Civil Union" and end with it? They won't because they want to be on par with the straight people. Sorry they will never get to it. Sorry we gotta to be discrimination agaisnt gay, like or not then move to different country.

Why should they settle for anything? Are they less of a person not to be on par with straight people? Why not make it legal there is no reason not to and then anybody that does not like Gay marrage being legal can move to another country?

ETA: Why would anybody strive for something more? lets all just give up sit on our couches and defficate on ourselfs.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 09:54
Well for one, there is nothing in the Bible about glass houses and rocks- that is a proverb.
Millions of Christians will indeed have a million interpretations, but the one constant is that the Bible does not change. Whenever a cause du jour erupts, many Christians interpret the Bible and manipulate their interpretation to fit what they see as a needed change.

Yes I now they didnt have glass houses. John 8:7 I think says "He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her." . Same idea of the glass house, My point is everybody saying that it is a sin need to look at themselves and see that they commit sins as well. (Please do tell me where I was laking again) Also lets look at Matthew 7:1-6 I thank you may learn something.

The Bible does not change is my point. Now please tell me, who gets to deside what it means? I think somebody like maybe King james or how about the catholic church. We can agree that they would not want to change the original text at all for their sake right?

Can you please tell me what this word arsenokoit mean? Does it mean homosexual in the meaning we use it? Could it have been translated wrong?

GLWyandotte
09-13-2011, 11:21
The glass houses thing was likely referring to seeing the speck in a brother's eye rather than the beam, but the context is basically the same.

The fact that we are all sinners and should not judge is a basic foundation; because we are sinners, we do.
Homosexuality is a sin of choice. You may have been born that way, but like many facets of the human psyche, it is a sin only when acted upon.
I believe if you accept Jesus as your Savior, no matter what sin you have committed, you will be forgiven.

I don't know if transcribers want the Bible to change- who knows, maybe they hated their jobs like a lot of us do. I do know that King James had a bunch of folks doing the transcription in order to reflect his views as they aligned with the Church of England.
Humans interpret the Bible in so many ways, in my mind, you do as best you can, only God knows the absolute Truth, which can indeed differ from divinely inspired writings due to the machinations of human error, concious or not.
I don't believe arsenokoites was used to describe homosexuality the preference, I think it was used to describe and condemn the acting upon the feelings, lumping sins of the flesh along with thievery, murder, etc.

Yes I now they didnt have glass houses. John 8:7 I think says "He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her." . Same idea of the glass house, My point is everybody saying that it is a sin need to look at themselves and see that they commit sins as well. (Please do tell me where I was laking again) Also lets look at Matthew 7:1-6 I thank you may learn something.

The Bible does not change is my point. Now please tell me, who gets to deside what it means? I think somebody like maybe King james or how about the catholic church. We can agree that they would not want to change the original text at all for their sake right?

Can you please tell me what this word arsenokoit mean? Does it mean homosexual in the meaning we use it? Could it have been translated wrong?

AlexHassin
09-13-2011, 11:46
I’m sorry but how is “ because a religious book says something” and argument for a law at all in this country? This is America, not some third world tribe state. Dam it people start acting like it.

Glock30Eric
09-13-2011, 11:49
Why should they settle for anything? Are they less of a person not to be on par with straight people? Why not make it legal there is no reason not to and then anybody that does not like Gay marrage being legal can move to another country?

ETA: Why would anybody strive for something more? lets all just give up sit on our couches and defficate on ourselfs.


Ok I am an American white guy, but I want to call myself as a negro or African-American because I want to be on par with black people. Does it make sense to you? No way! You are doing this in the same way with the gay marriage.

The marriage is between a man and a woman and nothing else. Sorry.

I will support for the civil union but I won't support gay marriage. If those gay people want to get “married” then it is better for them to move out of this country. We simply don't need them and their issues.

If everyone on this earth is gay and then the human beings will come to end. We already knows that the gay act is abhor thing to do. However, some people wants to sin so I gave them a chance to get “married” under the civil union, but they don’t like “Civil Union” and they want get married under “gay marriage” definition. Sorry get out of our land.

AlexHassin
09-13-2011, 11:58
Ok I am an American white guy, but I want to call myself as a negro or African-American because I want to be on par with black people. Does it make sense to you? No way! You are doing this in the same way with the gay marriage.

The marriage is between a man and a woman and nothing else. Sorry.

I will support for the civil union but I won't support gay marriage. If those gay people want to get “married” then it is better for them to move out of this country. We simply don't need them and their issues.

If everyone on this earth is gay and then the human beings will come to end. We already knows that the gay act is abhor thing to do. However, some people wants to sin so I gave them a chance to get “married” under the civil union, but they don’t like “Civil Union” and they want get married under “gay marriage” definition. Sorry get out of our land.

You shore don’t sound like the ideal of an American. Are you new to the country and having some adapting issues? And who is the our? Maybe if people have problems with the freedoms and liberties in America they should move. Its not for everyone.

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 12:01
I’m sorry but how is “ because a religious book says something” and argument for a law at all in this country? This is America, not some third world tribe state. Dam it people start acting like it.Are you saying we should abandon all laws which are derived from religious documents? Like murder and theft?

GLWyandotte
09-13-2011, 12:03
I’m sorry but how is “ because a religious book says something” and argument for a law at all in this country? This is America, not some third world tribe state. Dam it people start acting like it.

We are a country where 83% of people claim religious affiliation and 76% of them are Christians, we are about as far from third world as you can get.
Laws are based on commonalities in morality and human decency. The fact that so many of our laws have basic biblical premise should be a clue.
When the United States had a higher church-going population so many years ago, the crime rates weren't near what they are today. Chipping away at organized religion and the good it does is furthering the moral decay and creating a nation of thugs and dirtbags. I'm not saying if you don't go to church you are either of those, but denying that there are more people living now that have no regard for humanity is a serious case of denial.

AlexHassin
09-13-2011, 12:10
Are you saying we should abandon all laws which are derived from religious documents? Like murder and theft?

well considering how universal those laws are I don’t think any religion can lay a claim to them. (well ok maybe Shamash) also we see there codification by secular courts and governments. not to mention that they are, unlike the case hear, necessary rules of a state to maintain order and civilization. unlike this case we have plenty of laws that are created in our secular legal system that are just and necessary. Just because they also exist or do not exist in a religious book is only a reflection on how close their attempt at defining justice is to ours

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 12:17
well considering how universal those laws are I don’t think any religion can lay a claim to them. (well ok maybe Shamash) also we see there codification by secular courts and governments. not to mention that they are, unlike the case hear, necessary rules of a state to maintain order and civilization. unlike this case we have plenty of laws that are created in our secular legal system that are just and necessary. Just because they also exist or do not exist in a religious book is only a reflection on how close their attempt at defining justice is to oursCould you help me out and provide a list of "laws that are created in our secular legal system that are just and necessary" which do not exist in the Bible?

AlexHassin
09-13-2011, 12:24
We are a country where 83% of people claim religious affiliation and 76% of them are Christians, we are about as far from third world as you can get.
Laws are based on commonalities in morality and human decency. The fact that so many of our laws have basic biblical premise should be a clue.
When the United States had a higher church-going population so many years ago, the crime rates weren't near what they are today. Chipping away at organized religion and the good it does is furthering the moral decay and creating a nation of thugs and dirtbags. I'm not saying if you don't go to church you are either of those, but denying that there are more people living now that have no regard for humanity is a serious case of denial.

I don’t deny that at all. ( the common morality part) I feel its part of the reason we see very similar laws and legal ideas across cultures. Some things have to be in place for a society to run. Sometimes religions successfully capture these ideas and put them in writing. Unfortunately they also have some rules that well, might have appeared moral at the time but are not moral now. the problem is we seem to have an issue with people that cannot observe that and notice that what was moral 2000 years ago must be moral now.
As for the church and crime thing. If I am not mistaken form statistics the general trend has been downwards in crime. Some of it may be that I am lucky to live in a below average crime level city in a borough that despite still not being the best is improvising. There are a lot of facts contributing to high crime levels but I am not shore if church attendance is much of one. During spikes of crime we saw in the 60s and inter war years was there a decrees in church attendance? In the hood I live the big bad gangsters use to be Italians who generally are church goers. Not shore how much water your idea holds.

AlexHassin
09-13-2011, 12:25
Could you help me out and provide a list of "laws that are created in our secular legal system that are just and necessary" which do not exist in the Bible?

Don’t remember the list of laws in the bible. But I am pretty shore they lacked traffic and torts law.

GLWyandotte
09-13-2011, 12:30
Could you help me out and provide a list of "laws that are created in our secular legal system that are just and necessary" which do not exist in the Bible?

Well, Gwalch, the only one I can think of is in Minnesota a person may not cross state lines with a duck atop his head.:wave:

It may be in Deuteronomy though.....

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 12:32
Don’t remember the list of laws in the bible. But I am pretty shore they lacked traffic and torts law. I think there were similar laws, but can you be specific about anything substantial, that has helped people?

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 12:33
Well, Gwalch, the only one I can think of is in Minnesota a person may not cross state lines with a duck atop his head.:wave:

It may be in Deuteronomy though.....I think Zule was bad about doing that... ;)

AlexHassin
09-13-2011, 12:40
I think there were similar laws, but can you be specific about anything substantial, that has helped people?

Well less funny then the others we do outlaw slavery, remove silly restrictions on interest, and have child pornography laws. not to mention there are lots of bad laws in the bible we wisely do not fallow.

Bilbo Bagins
09-13-2011, 12:44
The NC House has decided to let voters decide next May as to whether or not they want to add a provision to the state constitution that defines marriage between one man and one woman.

I was just curious as to whether or not your state has a similar provision in your states constitution?

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/129638638.html

Even voters in California of all places shot down gay marriage. I say let the voters vote on it, and the issue will die.

gwalchmai
09-13-2011, 12:46
Well less funny then the others we do outlaw slavery, remove silly restrictions on interest, and have child pornography laws. not to mention there are lots of bad laws in the bible we wisely do not fallow.I'm sorry, I can't understand what this gibberish has to do with the question I asked. Could you rephrase it?

Calico Jack
09-13-2011, 13:14
Even voters in California of all places shot down gay marriage. I say let the voters vote on it, and the issue will die.

That is what I found interesting. I wasn't even aware that it was being discussed in Raleigh, but I think it is going to get heated as the day to vote nears.

Another thing I find surprising is the amount of people on here that assume all people who oppose gay marriage are "religious zealots". That's like saying all people who support gay marriage are gay.

BlayGlock
09-13-2011, 13:27
I am saying that it is immoral to restrict someone's rights based on their sexual orientation.

And I am saying that it is immoral for a religious zealot to attempt to force his/her beliefs on others.

Is that what you meant?


Precisley, but ultimatley says who? Why is it immoral for a "religious zealot" to attempt to "force" his or her beliefs. Also, is that not what you are also doing, attempting through force of government to push your moral belief system by saying the "religious zealot" is not allowed to bring thier morality to the table of public discourse, but you are?

morrismma
09-13-2011, 14:54
Even voters in California of all places shot down gay marriage. I say let the voters vote on it, and the issue will die.

Fine then lets put everything on the table for voters to vote lets start with Gun issues(thats has about the same break down as gay marriages 75% aginst and 25% for).Why is it anybody business what People do if its not physically harming Anybody else? Its not!!!!

Bilbo Bagins
09-13-2011, 15:06
That is what I found interesting. I wasn't even aware that it was being discussed in Raleigh, but I think it is going to get heated as the day to vote nears.

Another thing I find surprising is the amount of people on here that assume all people who oppose gay marriage are "religious zealots". That's like saying all people who support gay marriage are gay.

People assumed it was white christian conservatives, but a Lot of Catholic Latino and Black Baptist that usually vote democrat in California oppose gay marriage.

AlexHassin
09-13-2011, 15:12
I'm sorry, I can't understand what this gibberish has to do with the question I asked. Could you rephrase it?

Answering your question, we outlaw slavery, and have child pornography laws. As far as I remember form my one reading of the bible, both are things the bible does not have laws on. iirc the bible has rules on how to treat your slaves.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 15:12
The glass houses thing was likely referring to seeing the speck in a brother's eye rather than the beam, but the context is basically the same.

The fact that we are all sinners and should not judge is a basic foundation; because we are sinners, we do.
Homosexuality is a sin of choice. You may have been born that way, but like many facets of the human psyche, it is a sin only when acted upon.
I believe if you accept Jesus as your Savior, no matter what sin you have committed, you will be forgiven.

I don't know if transcribers want the Bible to change- who knows, maybe they hated their jobs like a lot of us do. I do know that King James had a bunch of folks doing the transcription in order to reflect his views as they aligned with the Church of England.
Humans interpret the Bible in so many ways, in my mind, you do as best you can, only God knows the absolute Truth, which can indeed differ from divinely inspired writings due to the machinations of human error, concious or not.
I don't believe arsenokoites was used to describe homosexuality the preference, I think it was used to describe and condemn the acting upon the feelings, lumping sins of the flesh along with thievery, murder, etc.

Is there any sins that are not a choice? Also could you(general nothing I say or have said is pointed toward you.Im just debating my side) please tell me what sin is worse than the other. My belief is a that they are all equal lie=Murder=homosexuality.

My take on the bible that is in print right now is its contaminated. there was a king that had his say. You had the catholic church (some how they are uber rich) that said let me see this bible (quickly pulls out hand axe)
Wack!!! (hands scribe back half the original) Go publish that half the rest makes the church look bad.

I dont think it matters if they are born that way or its a choice. Some people do, So i have another question if they were born that way then with all reason God himself made a mistake? Remember that We all were created in his image. So remember if you are against gay marriage there is a chance you are saying God screwed up.

Dalton Wayne
09-13-2011, 15:17
God is absolutely man's worst invention.
:thumbsup:

morrismma
09-13-2011, 15:24
Ok I am an American white guy, but I want to call myself as a negro or African-American because I want to be on par with black people. Does it make sense to you? No way! You are doing this in the same way with the gay marriage.

The marriage is between a man and a woman and nothing else. Sorry.

I will support for the civil union but I won't support gay marriage. If those gay people want to get “married” then it is better for them to move out of this country. We simply don't need them and their issues.

If everyone on this earth is gay and then the human beings will come to end. We already knows that the gay act is abhor thing to do. However, some people wants to sin so I gave them a chance to get “married” under the civil union, but they don’t like “Civil Union” and they want get married under “gay marriage” definition. Sorry get out of our land.

Thanks for debating with opinions and emotions and not facts you showed no facts in this at all.

You actually proved my point. You hear(read) people all the time how its not fair to be a white male, So in your example it does make sense to want to be on par with them.

What about womens rights they wanted to be equal so they stood up and got it. Black rights same story. So where does it not make sense to want to be equal?

The same old line if you dont like it get out of our country. SOME ONE ELSE ALL READY STATED IF YOU DONT LIKE FREEDOM IN AMERICA YOU A JUST AS WELCOME TO LEAVE!

Calico Jack
09-13-2011, 15:29
People assumed it was white christian conservatives, but a Lot of Catholic Latino and Black Baptist that usually vote democrat in California oppose gay marriage.

The fact of the matter is I know people who have no religious affiliation at all, yet they still oppose gay marriage. I just don't know why people always assume that those who oppose gay marriage oppose it for religious reasons.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 15:36
The fact of the matter is I know people who have no religious affiliation at all, yet they still oppose gay marriage. I just don't know why people always assume that those who oppose gay marriage oppose it for religious reasons.

Its because the biggest part of the group that oppose it are religious. Any time its debated that is one of the first view put forth is "God hates it", "Its against God" Which is all an uniformed and not researched opinion But when you say GOD SAID everybody runs.

Calico Jack
09-13-2011, 15:50
Its because the biggest part of the group that oppose it are religious. Any time its debated that is one of the first view put forth is "God hates it", "Its against God" Which is all an uniformed and not researched opinion But when you say GOD SAID everybody runs.

I agree that the majority of those opposed to gay marriage are in opposition due to religious reasons, but not all.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 16:37
I agree that the majority of those opposed to gay marriage are in opposition due to religious reasons, but not all.

Agreed, just like not all who are for it are gay. Some of us just Know what personal freedoms mean.

Glock30Eric
09-13-2011, 16:51
Thanks for debating with opinions and emotions and not facts you showed no facts in this at all.

You actually proved my point. You hear(read) people all the time how its not fair to be a white male, So in your example it does make sense to want to be on par with them.

What about womens rights they wanted to be equal so they stood up and got it. Black rights same story. So where does it not make sense to want to be equal?

The same old line if you dont like it get out of our country. SOME ONE ELSE ALL READY STATED IF YOU DONT LIKE FREEDOM IN AMERICA YOU A JUST AS WELCOME TO LEAVE!

You don't get my point.

The point is I can't change my skin to black to order to be called as a Negro. It is same thing to the marriage, it is between man and woman. It is impossible to change it to whatever so. If you want to do that, then you must allow people to start marrying their pets, computer, whatever so.

I'm libertarian and I believe in Jesus Christ. You clearly display your ignorant in the marriage. You dont really know where the "marriage" came from and who established it. It came from God, therefore God said it's between man and woman, period. Therefore, Union Civil is the beat solution for the gay people. It's very sad that it wasn't good enough for them. They don't make sense as a sin is never a logical.

:)


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

GLWyandotte
09-13-2011, 17:28
Is there any sins that are not a choice? Also could you(general nothing I say or have said is pointed toward you.Im just debating my side) please tell me what sin is worse than the other. My belief is a that they are all equal lie=Murder=homosexuality.

My take on the bible that is in print right now is its contaminated. there was a king that had his say. You had the catholic church (some how they are uber rich) that said let me see this bible (quickly pulls out hand axe)
Wack!!! (hands scribe back half the original) Go publish that half the rest makes the church look bad.

I dont think it matters if they are born that way or its a choice. Some people do, So i have another question if they were born that way then with all reason God himself made a mistake? Remember that We all were created in his image. So remember if you are against gay marriage there is a chance you are saying God screwed up.

No I don't believe God made a mistake. He gives what we can handle. We are all born with a cross to bear- mine is Alcoholism. I had "the thirst" as they say. I am sober and have chosen to no longer abuse my body years ago, but it will always be with me, trying to creep back in.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 19:42
You don't get my point.

The point is I can't change my skin to black to order to be called as a Negro. It is same thing to the marriage, it is between man and woman. It is impossible to change it to whatever so. If you want to do that, then you must allow people to start marrying their pets, computer, whatever so.

I'm libertarian and I believe in Jesus Christ. You clearly display your ignorant in the marriage. You dont really know where the "marriage" came from and who established it. It came from God, therefore God said it's between man and woman, period. Therefore, Union Civil is the beat solution for the gay people. It's very sad that it wasn't good enough for them. They don't make sense as a sin is never a logical.

:)


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Again your point stands on religous views alone with no fact. Words are given meaning by man not god.

PLEASE SO ME MY IGNORANCE SINCE I THINK THE FIRST MARRIAGE LAWS WERE 5000 YEARS AGO AND THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN SOME WHERE AROUND 3500 YEARS AGO. SO YES IN MY IGNORANCE I THOUGHT GOD CREATED MARRIAGE WAIT THAT WAS YOU.

What I have been saying and many others Your "marriage by god" has no bearing or place in a law of a country that has many religions with many different gods and some with no religion and no gods. Now the word marriage could have its meaning changed by man to cover all human to human marriage much easier then you could change your skin color.

morrismma
09-13-2011, 19:54
No I don't believe God made a mistake. He gives what we can handle. We are all born with a cross to bear- mine is Alcoholism. I had "the thirst" as they say. I am sober and have chosen to no longer abuse my body years ago, but it will always be with me, trying to creep back in.

First congradulations on becoming sober I know its not easy. Yes we all have crosses to bear, but you chose to drink the first time,the second and so on tell you had to keep going. Different is everybody is born with the need to love and be loved not chosen. They are born with an attraction to the same sex.

Glock30Eric
09-13-2011, 20:58
Again your point stands on religous views alone with no fact. Words are given meaning by man not god.

PLEASE SO ME MY IGNORANCE SINCE I THINK THE FIRST MARRIAGE LAWS WERE 5000 YEARS AGO AND THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN SOME WHERE AROUND 3500 YEARS AGO. SO YES IN MY IGNORANCE I THOUGHT GOD CREATED MARRIAGE WAIT THAT WAS YOU.

What I have been saying and many others Your "marriage by god" has no bearing or place in a law of a country that has many religions with many different gods and some with no religion and no gods. Now the word marriage could have its meaning changed by man to cover all human to human marriage much easier then you could change your skin color.

Ok where is the evidence that man and woman was married in 5,000 years ago (by your words)?

Uh? You say we could change our color of skin? What drug are you taking because it must be really strong!?

Anyway.

I believe in Bible is inspired by God, and it is living words from God'a mouth. I know and surely knows that Bible is perfect.

Since you don't believe in the Bible then we don't see any point to discuss further because you are blind from the truth and you hardens your heart by rejecting the truth. I prays for your repentance and to grasp the truth by God's holy spirit.

God's grace be with you.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

AlexHassin
09-13-2011, 21:44
Ok where is the evidence that man and woman was married in 5,000 years ago (by your words)?


Well lets see. We know of marriages in ancient Greece and Rome conventio in manum . Both predating Christianity along with Chinese marriages that predate Christianity and Christianities arrival in China. There is also interesting cases of same sex marriages in these cultures. Emperor Nero will come to mind in this case. It was not until 342 AD that a law appears on the books prohibiting same sex marriage in Rome.
Maybe you should spend some time reading some other books, if you do not even know that marriage existed before Christianity.

ViperGlock
09-14-2011, 01:31
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:


:supergrin: It's been a while since I heard that! Keep up the good work!!


http://images8.cpcache.com/product/250104788v4_480x480_Front_Color-Black.jpg

GLWyandotte
09-14-2011, 05:00
First congradulations on becoming sober I know its not easy. Yes we all have crosses to bear, but you chose to drink the first time,the second and so on tell you had to keep going. Different is everybody is born with the need to love and be loved not chosen. They are born with an attraction to the same sex.

Thanks, it's been a tough row to hoe!

My correlation between the two is this-
People are born alcoholics, it's a disease; whether you act upon it is your choice. For drunks, alcohol= love and everything else they need to fill those gaps in their life.
I'm not saying homosexuality is a disease, more like a crossed wire in your brain. Whether you act upon it is your choice.

Brucev
09-14-2011, 06:36
Is there any sins that are not a choice? Also could you(general nothing I say or have said is pointed toward you.Im just debating my side) please tell me what sin is worse than the other. My belief is a that they are all equal lie=Murder=homosexuality.

My take on the bible that is in print right now is its contaminated. there was a king that had his say. You had the catholic church (some how they are uber rich) that said let me see this bible (quickly pulls out hand axe)
Wack!!! (hands scribe back half the original) Go publish that half the rest makes the church look bad.

I dont think it matters if they are born that way or its a choice. Some people do, So i have another question if they were born that way then with all reason God himself made a mistake? Remember that We all were created in his image. So remember if you are against gay marriage there is a chance you are saying God screwed up.

If this the the extent of your knowledge about the Bible, you are woefully ill-informed.

morrismma
09-14-2011, 08:38
If this the the extent of your knowledge about the Bible, you are woefully ill-informed.

Please tell me where im wrong not with your belief but with true facts. That there is NO Way Possible A King Or Church had it translated to what they wanted? Am I wrong that all sins are equal? james 2:10 maybe.

Am I also wrong in saying that if I am created in gods image and i have 12 toes that god made a mistake? If you answer is No then my point is Just cause there is a wired crossed gays are just the same as you or me. If yes then im sure your book says something about calling god wrong.

Glock30Eric
09-14-2011, 08:54
Well lets see. We know of marriages in ancient Greece and Rome conventio in manum . Both predating Christianity along with Chinese marriages that predate Christianity and Christianities arrival in China. There is also interesting cases of same sex marriages in these cultures. Emperor Nero will come to mind in this case. It was not until 342 AD that a law appears on the books prohibiting same sex marriage in Rome.
Maybe you should spend some time reading some other books, if you do not even know that marriage existed before Christianity.


Sorry I don’t agree with you.

I don't believe there was anyone before Adam and Eve. The day that God created Adam and Eve is the beginning of the Christianity. Therefore, I don't agree with you that there were people before Christianity. Adam and Eve was the first couple to be married in the human beings. In the Bible God clearly prohibited the gay acts and the gay marriage before anyone created the law.

morrismma
09-14-2011, 09:29
Ok where is the evidence that man and woman was married in 5,000 years ago (by your words)?

Uh? You say we could change our color of skin? What drug are you taking because it must be really strong!?

Anyway.

I believe in Bible is inspired by God, and it is living words from God'a mouth. I know and surely knows that Bible is perfect.

Since you don't believe in the Bible then we don't see any point to discuss further because you are blind from the truth and you hardens your heart by rejecting the truth. I prays for your repentance and to grasp the truth by God's holy spirit.

God's grace be with you.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Blind from the truth can be said about Religious people just the same much easier actually. I can say the words in the bible are lived by through your interpretation which is very blind cause you can change them to fit what you want.

Proof of marriage is easy to find 5000 years ago. Somthing else to think about is Take the American indian trible, any tribe that has never heard of the bible, other religions all get married? How can you tell me your god was the one Who invented marriage?
http://powerisknowledge.new.newsvine.com/_news/2011/02/13/6046997-the-oldest-written-reference-to-the-institution-of-marriage-comes-from-hammurabis-code-of-ancient-mesopotamia-broadly-covering-modern-day-iraq

Give this a read I know its wiki its no good but it shows A lot of other religions that get married Most that were around before christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

well i never said you could change yours skin color. I said you can change laws and wording easier than you could change skin color. But if you want to be technical HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF TANNING CHANGES THE COLOR OF SKIN.

Know I dont Believe in a book written by men translated by men under the control of a king. With a work made up to mean homosexual that happens to be a compound word with its to sepret means combined to menbed. please tell me when was the last time you seen butter-fly(coupound word would be butterfly).

morrismma
09-14-2011, 09:37
Sorry I don’t agree with you.

I don't believe there was anyone before Adam and Eve. The day that God created Adam and Eve is the beginning of the Christianity. Therefore, I don't agree with you that there were people before Christianity. Adam and Eve was the first couple to be married in the human beings. In the Bible God clearly prohibited the gay acts and the gay marriage before anyone created the law.

Just cause you dont agree with him or I does not make you right. By your own words it makes you blind.

Before the bible was written people got married so god stole the idea of marriage form them.

Please outside of the bible show me where adam and eve has ever been proven. YOU ASKED ME FOR PROOF I SHOWED YOU NOW ITS YOUR TURN.

Glock30Eric
09-14-2011, 10:01
Just cause you dont agree with him or I does not make you right. By your own words it makes you blind.

Before the bible was written people got married so god stole the idea of marriage form them.

Please outside of the bible show me where adam and eve has ever been proven. YOU ASKED ME FOR PROOF I SHOWED YOU NOW ITS YOUR TURN.

I already gave you the evidences and it came from the Bible.

If we want to discuss outside of the Bible, then you shouldn't discuss about the marriage because the marriage came from Bible. If we never had the Bible then we will be like animals; raping each other, having orgies all we want without a shame, and we won't even know what is right nor wrong, and we will kill each other as we please because we would have the self-relativism thought. I am sure you already agree with me but you simply want to justify your thoughts, rationales on things by your own standards.

Anyway I think I already gave you enough explanation to understand my position. I think you just want to stir this debate into your position.

Brucev
09-14-2011, 10:05
Please tell me where im wrong not with your belief but with true facts. That there is NO Way Possible A King Or Church had it translated to what they wanted? Am I wrong that all sins are equal? james 2:10 maybe.

Am I also wrong in saying that if I am created in gods image and i have 12 toes that god made a mistake? If you answer is No then my point is Just cause there is a wired crossed gays are just the same as you or me. If yes then im sure your book says something about calling god wrong.

Lots of things in life require education for understanding. If you wish to understand the Bible, educate yourself. Amazon offers for sale many good books that will provide a useful introduction to understanding the Bible. Buy one and educate yourself. Superficiality only results in a tissue thin grasp of the Bible or whatever else is the topic of discussion.

morrismma
09-14-2011, 14:54
Lots of things in life require education for understanding. If you wish to understand the Bible, educate yourself. Amazon offers for sale many good books that will provide a useful introduction to understanding the Bible. Buy one and educate yourself. Superficiality only results in a tissue thin grasp of the Bible or whatever else is the topic of discussion.

That is the problem as I have already stated. Books from Amazon, 5 years study with a Minister or just Plain reading it my self does not make a difference it is how it is interpreted by the person who wrote that book you bought on amazon, or the minster you study with. If you think that is wrong you are crazy if there was only on interpretation there would not be 1000 different christan denominations.


I already gave you the evidences and it came from the Bible.

If we want to discuss outside of the Bible, then you shouldn't discuss about the marriage because the marriage came from Bible. If we never had the Bible then we will be like animals; raping each other, having orgies all we want without a shame, and we won't even know what is right nor wrong, and we will kill each other as we please because we would have the self-relativism thought. I am sure you already agree with me but you simply want to justify your thoughts, rationales on things by your own standards.

Anyway I think I already gave you enough explanation to understand my position. I think you just want to stir this debate into your position.

The bible is no more a source of facts than a Dr Suess book.

Again marriage did not come from the Bible that is wrong. IF it came from the bible why do other religions do it for one? Second why did and still do Tribes of people who never heard of the bible marry?

We would not be any more like animals than we are know. Again there were civilized society before the bible. Even with the bible we kill each other rape and murder. the bible does nothing more then let you beleive you are better the sombody else and think your going to a magical place like heaven.

No I do not agree with you at all the bible is a childs story that a bunch of adults believe in.

No you did not give me any kind of proof what so ever. Is that not the purpose of a debate is to show and prove my side?(though it is a debate I new i could not when cause Im debating a belief instead of facts)

RichardB
09-15-2011, 08:32
Since some are using the Bible as justification it raises the question that if the state defines marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman it is contrary to the scripture which show very blessed men with many wives and concubines?

Or are we only cite the parts of the bible that are popular NOW? I.e. I won't murder but I will eat pork and forbidden seafood. Someone told me there are actually about 600 Commandments, not 10.

Brucev
09-15-2011, 10:23
Since some are using the Bible as justification it raises the question that if the state defines marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman it is contrary to the scripture which show very blessed men with many wives and concubines?

Or are we only cite the parts of the bible that are popular NOW? I.e. I won't murder but I will eat pork and forbidden seafood. Someone told me there are actually about 600 Commandments, not 10.

I'm fine with interpreting the Bible from a evangelical perspective. If that doesn't well suit others, let them convert. Applying that perspective to matters of the state is fine with me. I'm cool with it. If that chafes the neck of someone who does not share that perspective, well they can always use some Vaseline. :wavey:

GLWyandotte
09-15-2011, 12:20
Since some are using the Bible as justification it raises the question that if the state defines marriage as between 1 man and 1 woman it is contrary to the scripture which show very blessed men with many wives and concubines?

Or are we only cite the parts of the bible that are popular NOW? I.e. I won't murder but I will eat pork and forbidden seafood. Someone told me there are actually about 600 Commandments, not 10.

I'll try and keep this brief-
The Old Testament, which was admin'd by Levitical Priests was superceeded by The New Covenent, when Jesus led by Messianic Rule.
There was reason to change to the New Covenant in that there were faults found in the OT. Specifically God proclaimed the slaves led out of Egypt did not keep within the Lord's Law.
A good place to start is Hebrews 8:7-13

If you (generally, not personally) have trouble with believeing in Jesus, there is an excellent book entitled The Case For Christ by I believe Lee Strobel.
It is from the perpective of an investigative journalist trying to disprove Christ's existance.

AlexHassin
09-15-2011, 16:03
I'm fine with interpreting the Bible from a evangelical perspective. If that doesn't well suit others, let them convert. Applying that perspective to matters of the state is fine with me. I'm cool with it. If that chafes the neck of someone who does not share that perspective, well they can always use some Vaseline. :wavey:

i believe there was some group recently that wanted to apply a holy books beliefs on a state. i think they flew some planes into some stuff, then killed some people. Yeah wanting to inflict religious rules on society is great isn’t it. look how great all the theocracies are.
.

Brucev
09-16-2011, 05:43
i believe there was some group recently that wanted to apply a holy books beliefs on a state. i think they flew some planes into some stuff, then killed some people. Yeah wanting to inflict religious rules on society is great isn’t it. look how great all the theocracies are.
.

Ah yes... the religion of "piece..." i.e., those faithful who bomb people, cut off people's heads, shoot people, throw acid on the faces of women who dare to (horrors) drive cars, etc. Yes... such fine people. Supposedly there are those of that faith who don't do vests, etc. Maybe you've met some.

This nation was founded on a broad Judeo-Christian ethic. That ethic was and is not fundamentalism. It also was and is not libertarianism. As inconvenient as that might be to post-modern pagans, those are the facts. Now fact can be hard things. So it is understandable that devoted pagan, etc. will feel chafed. Vaseline helps.

A national perspective shaped by and predicated upon that broad Judeo-Christian is best for America. If some find that objectionable, there are plenty of options elsewhere.

GLWyandotte
09-16-2011, 07:16
Ah yes... the religion of "piece..." i.e., those faithful who bomb people, cut off people's heads, shoot people, throw acid on the faces of women who dare to (horrors) drive cars, etc. Yes... such fine people. Supposedly there are those of that faith who don't do vests, etc. Maybe you've met some.

This nation was founded on a broad Judeo-Christian ethic. That ethic was and is not fundamentalism. It also was and is not libertarianism. As inconvenient as that might be to post-modern pagans, those are the facts. Now fact can be hard things. So it is understandable that devoted pagan, etc. will feel chafed. Vaseline helps.

A national perspective shaped by and predicated upon that broad Judeo-Christian is best for America. If some find that objectionable, there are plenty of options elsewhere.


Careful Bruce, someone will bring up the crusades now...which of course is totally irrelevant to the founding of our country, but they always do.

RichardB
09-16-2011, 07:34
We should not forget that the founder's broad Judeo-Christian ethic allowed for the wholesale ethnic cleansing of the native population, slavery of black folks, religious persecution, industrial companies working men, women, and children in unsafe conditions in addition to the good stuff we like to brag about.

Yes, things in the USA have improved because the attitudes of people have changed even though the Scriptures have not.

Off the wall thought: Yesterday I passed a church which proclaimed their support of "Old Time Religion". What do you want to bet that if I show up on Sunday morning they will not have a Latin Mass circa 900 AD?:supergrin:

AlexHassin
09-16-2011, 07:34
Ah yes... the religion of "piece..." i.e., those faithful who bomb people, cut off people's heads, shoot people, throw acid on the faces of women who dare to (horrors) drive cars, etc. Yes... such fine people. Supposedly there are those of that faith who don't do vests, etc. Maybe you've met some.

This nation was founded on a broad Judeo-Christian ethic. That ethic was and is not fundamentalism. It also was and is not libertarianism. As inconvenient as that might be to post-modern pagans, those are the facts. Now fact can be hard things. So it is understandable that devoted pagan, etc. will feel chafed. Vaseline helps.

A national perspective shaped by and predicated upon that broad Judeo-Christian is best for America. If some find that objectionable, there are plenty of options elsewhere.

Just saying watch out who you become. Trying to make things ethical from you pov is one thing. Unfortunately its not unheard of for these organization to take it to far. We are a secular state, laws of petty religions should have no sway on the population. That is what America is about.
Not shore what the whole pagan thing is about but or who but I hold there religious beliefs as unlikely as yours.

Gunhaver
02-24-2012, 18:16
Why they don't just accept "Civil Union" and end with it? They won't because they want to be on par with the straight people. Sorry they will never get to it. Sorry we gotta to be discrimination agaisnt gay, like or not then move to different country.

Compelling argument against gay marriage+ Proper spelling and grammar. Nary the two shall meet.

Glock30Eric
02-24-2012, 18:55
Compelling argument against gay marriage+ Proper spelling and grammar. Nary the two shall meet.

Thank you, professor English.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Gunhaver
02-24-2012, 20:31
Thank you, professor English.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Ok, then lets look at the point of your message rather than how poorly it's written.

Really? Never gonna happen? Have you not seen the trend this country is headed in? This is a civil liberties issue which means that it will go through one way or another. It will be voted on and passed where it will pass and where it doesn't pass the courts will eventually find the ban unconstitutional. Do you know how much money the gay community has and how serious this issue is to them? Are gays more or less accepted now than say 30 years ago? Have you ever seen a trend like that reverse itself? Then you had to go and throw in a good old "Yall kin just get out of Merica if you don't like it!" Do you have any idea how guys like you sound outside of the bass boat?

Glock30Eric
02-24-2012, 22:34
Ok, then lets look at the point of your message rather than how poorly it's written.

Really? Never gonna happen? Have you not seen the trend this country is headed in? This is a civil liberties issue which means that it will go through one way or another. It will be voted on and passed where it will pass and where it doesn't pass the courts will eventually find the ban unconstitutional. Do you know how much money the gay community has and how serious this issue is to them? Are gays more or less accepted now than say 30 years ago? Have you ever seen a trend like that reverse itself? Then you had to go and throw in a good old "Yall kin just get out of Merica if you don't like it!" Do you have any idea how guys like you sound outside of the bass boat?

The marriage wasn't in the government till around 1920s. It shouldn't be there because it is related to the church's business since it came from the Bible.

The gay marriage has do nothing with the government, so they shouldn't be there. People want to do that for tax purpose, frame, and other things. They could be happy without getting a "gay" marriage. Soon we will have to make a new law for the "gay" divorce which it is a completely silly law.

My English isn't that good but st least you understand me. I'm working to improve my English.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

RichardB
02-25-2012, 08:33
[QUOTE=GLWyandotte;17920552]I'll try and keep this brief-
The Old Testament, which was admin'd by Levitical Priests was superceeded by The New Covenent, when Jesus led by Messianic Rule.
There was reason to change to the New Covenant in that there were faults found in the OT. Specifically God proclaimed the slaves led out of Egypt did not keep within the Lord's Law.
A good place to start is Hebrews 8:7-13.....

If the Covenant was changed from the Levitical Laws to Jesus' simple message of "Love ye one another" then are all the 1000s of rigid "thou shalt nots" in the Old Testament also superceded? Is the only requirement now to believe and demonstrate that belief by acts of charity and love for the other folks on the planet? It seems to me that living the "loving life" would preclude many of the "Thou shall nots" from happening.

Gunhaver
02-25-2012, 10:05
The marriage wasn't in the government till around 1920s. It shouldn't be there because it is related to the church's business since it came from the Bible.

The gay marriage has do nothing with the government, so they shouldn't be there. People want to do that for tax purpose, frame, and other things. They could be happy without getting a "gay" marriage. Soon we will have to make a new law for the "gay" divorce which it is a completely silly law.

My English isn't that good but st least you understand me. I'm working to improve my English.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

But government is in it and if you know anything about our government it should be that once they get into something they never get out. Marriage is the legal key to a whole lot of government benefits that don't automatically come from same sex unions as much as many will claim they're the same thing. Here's a list,
http://gaylife.about.com/od/samesexmarriage/a/benefits.htm

So when you're legally married and all states recognize that then what you're entitled to under numerous circumstances is very clear and established.
To argue that government should get out of marriage is to basically say that nobody should get those benefits. To argue that LGBT should just be happy with civil unions is to basically say that their relationship is not as good as your relationship so they should have to jump through extra hoops to get what they can and just deal with what they can't get.

Brucev
02-25-2012, 20:52
i believe there was some group recently that wanted to apply a holy books beliefs on a state. i think they flew some planes into some stuff, then killed some people. Yeah wanting to inflict religious rules on society is great isn’t it. look how great all the theocracies are.
.

Let's be specific. A bunch of *******s killed thousands of Americans because of their hatred for America. Their brave leader of course hid in a cave while they gave their lives for him. There is no evidence that that now dead leader acted on any religious principle, muslim or otherwise. If you are not happy with Christian principles shaping our nation and its laws... emigrate. There are plenty of pagan nations from which to choose.

Brucev
02-25-2012, 20:54
Just saying watch out who you become. Trying to make things ethical from you pov is one thing. Unfortunately its not unheard of for these organization to take it to far. We are a secular state, laws of petty religions should have no sway on the population. That is what America is about.
Not shore what the whole pagan thing is about but or who but I hold there religious beliefs as unlikely as yours.

What you hold is of no concern to me. I conduct myself according to what I consider right. That is shaped by my Christian beliefs. If that causes you conflict, then you can adapt yourself.

NEOH212
02-25-2012, 21:54
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:

This.

:perfect10:

runcible68
02-26-2012, 16:20
I want the government out of my gun closet. I also want them the hell out of my bedroom and my wife's ******. We want the government out of our lives, but these "social conservatives" want to be in certain parts of it - usually anything to do with genitalia. Obama is going to win if the GOP's held hostage to the religious right's agenda.


Pro-gun, pro-gay marriage, pro-contraception, pro-choice and pro-gays in the military!

auto-5
03-19-2012, 20:50
This.

:perfect10:

Go back and read Matthew 7:1-5

Gunhaver
03-19-2012, 23:28
If you are not happy with Christian principles shaping our nation and its laws... emigrate. There are plenty of pagan nations from which to choose.


:rofl:
It's cute how you speak like you're winning.

Christian principles are not shaping this nation. Not even close. When what Christians want interferes with others rights those wants are being taken less and less seriously each year as more and more people either decide not to be the loud mouthed intrusive whackaloon type Christian or just turn away from it altogether. That's where we're headed, that's the trend. You may be delusional enough to think it isn't that way or that it might turn around but have fun with that.

The whole, "If yall don't like it you kin jus git out of my country" spiel has been the impotent battle cry of disgruntled social conservatives for decades. Guess what? Nobody's getting out. They're changing "your county's" government to suit them and they're doing it very effectively with help from people like you who spout drivel about pagans and gays and atheists and anyone else who's freedom of choice really pisses them off. Keep up the good work sir, you're helping more than you'll ever be capable of comprehending.

auto-5
03-21-2012, 19:18
:rofl:
It's cute how you speak like you're winning.

Christian principles are not shaping this nation. Not even close. When what Christians want interferes with others rights those wants are being taken less and less seriously each year as more and more people either decide not to be the loud mouthed intrusive whackaloon type Christian or just turn away from it altogether. That's where we're headed, that's the trend. You may be delusional enough to think it isn't that way or that it might turn around but have fun with that.

The whole, "If yall don't like it you kin jus git out of my country" spiel has been the impotent battle cry of disgruntled social conservatives for decades. Guess what? Nobody's getting out. They're changing "your county's" government to suit them and they're doing it very effectively with help from people like you who spout drivel about pagans and gays and atheists and anyone else who's freedom of choice really pisses them off. Keep up the good work sir, you're helping more than you'll ever be capable of comprehending.

The kicker is it is not even a christian value. Go back and read the Nicene Creed. It doesn't even mention marriage nore is his view of marriage agreed with between churches.

Just because he values a school of thought and calls himself a christian doesn't make something a christian value.

SDDL-UP
03-21-2012, 22:05
Govenment can do whatever it wants! If you're looking to government to define right and wrong, you are looking in the wrong place! Government at all levels is corrupt, bloated, and self serving. Why would anyone look to government for "justification"?

Natty
03-25-2012, 13:45
The Northern/Union states of Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, and Vermont, plus the Capital of the Union, Washington DC, have embraced and allowed gay marriage.

Every one of these states invaded the South during the Civil War.

Not a single former Confederate state has allowed this biblical abomination.

No wonder some Yankee soldiers walked funny.

Northern states and Yankee sympathizers must be very proud of gay marriage.

Gunhaver
03-25-2012, 14:01
The Northern/Union states of Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, and Vermont, plus the Capital of the Union, Washington DC, have embraced and allowed gay marriage.

Every one of these states invaded the South during the Civil War.

Not a single former Confederate state has allowed this biblical abomination.

No wonder some Yankee soldiers walked funny.

Northern states and Yankee sympathizers must be very proud of gay marriage.

And yet the south still lost.
Guess that settles the gays in combat debate.

Brucev
03-25-2012, 20:21
The kicker is it is not even a christian value. Go back and read the Nicene Creed. It doesn't even mention marriage nore is his view of marriage agreed with between churches.

Just because he values a school of thought and calls himself a christian doesn't make something a christian value.

Like it or not, Scripture condemns without exception homosexuality. At no point is it every in any way affirmed. This is the uniform witness of Scripture. As to creeds, they are merely the formulations of men, useful but subordinate to Scripture. As to what local churches or larger denominations might hold on a matter, their positions may be useful as the creeds they develop. But they stand in the light of Scripture and are without any authority except as they affirm Scripture. If they speak contrary to Scripture, they are in error and are to be condemned for their error. They may call their decisions/positions christian, but that does not make their positions christian.

Brucev
03-25-2012, 20:27
And yet the south still lost.
Guess that settles the gays in combat debate.

Sadly for America, the N.E. financial interest successfully used the federal apparatus and the burgeoning immigrant population to subjugate the Southern states and deny them their right of self-determination. They bastardized the COTUS by making of it a irreversible document which was never the intent of the framers. Now the whole nation is forced to live with the consequences of their over-reach in the form of a squatter's administration of a gansta government.

RichardB
03-26-2012, 06:35
"They bastardized the COTUS by making of it a irreversible document "
????

Even in Jim Crow Southern Schools I learned that the Constitution has been amended several times since the Civil War.

Noles26
03-26-2012, 07:54
Not even sure what gives a government the right to define marriage.

+1


Marriage was destroyed by Man and Woman, not Man and Man.

If it doesn't concern you, leave it alone.

auto-5
03-26-2012, 09:05
Like it or not, Scripture condemns without exception homosexuality. At no point is it every in any way affirmed. This is the uniform witness of Scripture. As to creeds, they are merely the formulations of men, useful but subordinate to Scripture. As to what local churches or larger denominations might hold on a matter, their positions may be useful as the creeds they develop. But they stand in the light of Scripture and are without any authority except as they affirm Scripture. If they speak contrary to Scripture, they are in error and are to be condemned for their error. They may call their decisions/positions christian, but that does not make their positions christian.

It also condemns the eating of shellfish and the planting of different crops in a given field. But all that was before Jesus died for our sins.

Your sins are forgiven! Not through your own deeds because we are all sinners but through the love of Jesus Christ who died for our sins. He and He alone gets to judge.

Brucev
03-26-2012, 09:23
It also condemns the eating of shellfish and the planting of different crops in a given field. But all that was before Jesus died for our sins.

Your sins are forgiven! Not through your own deeds because we are all sinners but through the love of Jesus Christ who died for our sins. He and He alone gets to judge.

If one is an orthodox Jew, such issues as shellfish, etc. are of concern. I am not a Jew. I am a Christian.

If in the New Testament record there was at any point any indication that Jesus affirmed aberrant sexual behavior of any sort, there would be a basis for arguing for the acceptance of homosexuality. That affirmation is absent from Scripture. On the other hand, the uniform witness of the Bible is that homosexuality is never anything but fundamentally and without exception to be condemned. This is explicit in Paul's letter to the Romans and his letters to the Corinthians. There is no equivocation on the matter.

Brucev
03-26-2012, 09:26
"They bastardized the COTUS by making of it a irreversible document "
????

Even in Jim Crow Southern Schools I learned that the Constitution has been amended several times since the Civil War.

I beg your pardon. My mistake. I wrote "making of it a irreversible document." I wrote of the COTUS. I should have referenced the union effected by the COTUS. No where in the founding documents of our nation was the union ever envisioned as only a choice to enter with no option of leaving. The War Between the States constituted the decision of northern power brokers to deny a "divorce" to the Southern states as the cost of that divorce would have been for the north inconvenient.

RichardB
03-27-2012, 06:19
St Paul condemned many other behaviors which are not prohibited by secular constitutions.

On the Confederate Flag tome it was posted that Madison, one of the primary authors of the Constitution, wrote in 1830 that bailing out of the union was not an option for a state.

Gunhaver
03-27-2012, 14:41
Sadly for America, the N.E. financial interest successfully used the federal apparatus and the burgeoning immigrant population to subjugate the Southern states and deny them their right of self-determination. They bastardized the COTUS by making of it a irreversible document which was never the intent of the framers. Now the whole nation is forced to live with the consequences of their over-reach in the form of a squatter's administration of a gansta government.

It's ok Bruce, you can just come out and say it. "Damn gays couldn't outfight us so they went and outsmarted and out resourced us and set our slaves free and then went and let them into political office."

Brucev
03-27-2012, 17:05
It's ok Bruce, you can just come out and say it. "Damn gays couldn't outfight us so they went and outsmarted and out resourced us and set our slaves free and then went and let them into political office."

Perhaps you are just confused. You apparently believe in mythology... such as the myth promulgated that the sovereign state that entered into the COTUS did so with the understanding that there was no exit.

Now perhaps you can explain just how homosexuals of the antebellum era led proud and loud in the War Between the States? Come on now. Be specific. Just who were the Northern homosexual leaders who can be cited?

Natty
03-28-2012, 14:37
It's ok Bruce, you can just come out and say it. "Damn gays couldn't outfight us so they went and outsmarted and out resourced us and set our slaves free and then went and let them into political office."

Not only that, they are now the police...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/HMCampbell/142557974_47a5315b08.jpg

Yankee sympathizers are very proud of what they have turned the police into...

RichardB
03-28-2012, 16:46
Fat cops come in all races, genders, and are from the north, south, east, and west.


http://www.google.com/search?q=fat+cops&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=nZNzT9fSAezq0QGOyMmBAw&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1173&bih=742

GRIMLET
03-28-2012, 17:03
Just a question.
What is the difference between a civil union and a marriage by a justice of the peace where no Bible was used and the ceremony taking place in a court room.

I understand Christians are upset about a not hetero marriage before God, but how does the above ceremony offend?

Not trolling or flaming. Just asking for clarification.

Stover918
03-28-2012, 17:06
Take it back to the closet. I'm tired of it being put in my face. Even kids think its ok. What would happen if I had a white pride parade? Now the military is a disgrace. I'm sure the whole world laughs at us now. What else can they **** up?

My pistols, however, I always kept by me

Gunhaver
03-28-2012, 17:36
Just a question.
What is the difference between a civil union and a marriage by a justice of the peace where no Bible was used and the ceremony taking place in a court room.

I understand Christians are upset about a not hetero marriage before God, but how does the above ceremony offend?

Not trolling or flaming. Just asking for clarification.

The problem is with the benefits that automatically come with legal marriage recognized in all 50 states vs. the ridiculous amount of work involved for a civil union couple to line up those same benefits. It's actually a very long list.
http://www.now.org/issues/marriage/marriage_unions.html

Gunhaver
03-28-2012, 17:53
Take it back to the closet. I'm tired of it being put in my face. Even kids think its ok. What would happen if I had a white pride parade? Now the military is a disgrace. I'm sure the whole world laughs at us now. What else can they **** up?

My pistols, however, I always kept by me

How exactly is it being put in your face? Do you wake up to a homosexual couple making out on your front lawn every morning? Might want to turn the garden hose on them.

You see gay men holding hands or kissing or whatever just like hetero couples have always done and you just can't handle it. You're not man enough to let people go about their business that doesn't hurt you. It's weak and pathetic that you let it bother you so much. Do you avoid giving a woman a kiss in public for fear that you might offend some homo couple?

Your arguments always boil down to, "You can't do that because I have a problem with it but I'm going to do it even if you have a problem with it."

Gunhaver
03-28-2012, 17:56
Perhaps you are just confused. You apparently believe in mythology... such as the myth promulgated that the sovereign state that entered into the COTUS did so with the understanding that there was no exit.

Now perhaps you can explain just how homosexuals of the antebellum era led proud and loud in the War Between the States? Come on now. Be specific. Just who were the Northern homosexual leaders who can be cited?

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/1186-alrighty-then.jpg

GRIMLET
03-28-2012, 18:37
The problem is with the benefits that automatically come with legal marriage recognized in all 50 states vs. the ridiculous amount of work involved for a civil union couple to line up those same benefits. It's actually a very long list.
http://www.now.org/issues/marriage/marriage_unions.html

I understand the financial implications. It would seem big insurance would like this. More dependants, more premiums.
I don't see people protesting gay marriage in terms of insurance.
A civil union vs a civil ceremony. How is it different?

Gunhaver
03-28-2012, 19:15
I understand the financial implications. It would seem big insurance would like this. More dependants, more premiums.
I don't see people protesting gay marriage in terms of insurance.
A civil union vs a civil ceremony. How is it different?

? Um, civil union is to civil ceremony as marriage is to marriage ceremony. :dunno:

What does big insurance have to do with it?

GRIMLET
03-28-2012, 19:51
Ok.
Then why do so many people have a problem with gay marriage and not civil unions.
If a marriage is before God and God is against nonheteros then the marriage wouldn't be recognized in Gods eyes. Right?
Not arguing or making a point. I'm trying to understand different points of view.

GRIMLET
03-28-2012, 19:57
If a hetero, man and woman, couple unite in a courthouse and have a meeting with a judge and become legally married, is that a civil union? It doesn't meet the way Christians normally do it so I wouldn't think it would be a marriage before God.
It is a marriage before the state. A marriage in certificate only.
Am I correct?

Gunhaver
03-28-2012, 20:12
If a hetero, man and woman, couple unite in a courthouse and have a meeting with a judge and become legally married, is that a civil union? It doesn't meet the way Christians normally do it so I wouldn't think it would be a marriage before God.
It is a marriage before the state. A marriage in certificate only.
Am I correct?

The issue is only with what the government recognizes as a legally binding marriage. There are probably gay couples that want the churches to marry them "in gods eyes" but the churches are not required to treat everyone equally.

There are thousands of laws, legal documents, case law records and who knows what else that have the words, "marriage" or "married" in them and it's an ongoing process to hash what happens under different circumstances in court. The simplest solution is to just expand legal marriage to homosexuals. Sure beats rooting through all those papers to amend them with, "and civil unions too".

randrew379
03-29-2012, 23:32
We are a country where 83% of people claim religious affiliation and 76% of them are Christians, we are about as far from third world as you can get.
Laws are based on commonalities in morality and human decency. The fact that so many of our laws have basic biblical premise should be a clue.
When the United States had a higher church-going population so many years ago, the crime rates weren't near what they are today. Chipping away at organized religion and the good it does is furthering the moral decay and creating a nation of thugs and dirtbags. I'm not saying if you don't go to church you are either of those, but denying that there are more people living now that have no regard for humanity is a serious case of denial.

It seems that NH has the fewest number of churchgoers and the lowest crime rate of all states if what I read recently is correct.

glockin-45
03-31-2012, 20:13
Its because the biggest part of the group that oppose it are religious. Any time its debated that is one of the first view put forth is "God hates it", "Its against God" Which is all an uniformed and not researched opinion But when you say GOD SAID everybody runs.
Just because you don't believe in the Bible, oh well. Let me say, we should not lay man with man, just as well as man with dog. Why? because God hates it.

ponders
03-31-2012, 20:15
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:



^^^^this^^^^ and also it wasnt Adrian and Eve :wavey:

Gunhaver
03-31-2012, 20:39
Just because you don't believe in the Bible, oh well. Let me say, we should not lay man with man, just as well as man with dog. Why? because God hates it.

Just because you do believe in the bible, oh well. We hear complaints about the gay agenda and normalizing gay behavior. Who's accepting it? Society. Believers are very concerned with who doesn't believe in the bible. Non-believers could care less that you do.

Do you feel the shrinking influence of the bible yet?

glockin-45
04-01-2012, 10:10
Delete.

glockin-45
04-01-2012, 10:32
Just because you do believe in the bible, oh well. We hear complaints about the gay agenda and normalizing gay behavior. Who's accepting it? Society. Believers are very concerned with who doesn't believe in the bible. Non-believers could care less that you do.

Do you feel the shrinking influence of the bible yet?

Yes, i see the shrinking influence of the Bible in todays time. We will all live and die with the path that we choose.
Praise GOD!

Alizard
05-08-2012, 13:30
The NC House has decided to let voters decide next May as to whether or not they want to add a provision to the state constitution that defines marriage between one man and one woman.

I was just curious as to whether or not your state has a similar provision in your states constitution?

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/129638638.html

I wonder if there was a recent time they would have passed an amendment keeping it illegal for whites and blacks to marry.

Yes, it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry most places at one time. here in "Liberal California", there was a recent time when it was illegal for Asians and whites to marry.

I guess the point is, if you set up an amendment that panders to the inherent bigotry of stupid people, most of them will vote for it.

camelotkid
05-09-2012, 04:41
How exactly is it being put in your face? Do you wake up to a homosexual couple making out on your front lawn every morning? Might want to turn the garden hose on them.

You see gay men holding hands or kissing or whatever just like hetero couples have always done and you just can't handle it. You're not man enough to let people go about their business that doesn't hurt you. It's weak and pathetic that you let it bother you so much. Do you avoid giving a woman a kiss in public for fear that you might offend some homo couple?

Your arguments always boil down to, "You can't do that because I have a problem with it but I'm going to do it even if you have a problem with it."
good post

Brucev
05-09-2012, 06:54
This just in... NC voters vote a big "NO" on letting homos play at marriage or even the quaint little arrangement they like to style as civil unions. Ah power to the people! Yea boy! Wonderful to see what happens when the people speak. And amazingly, professional politician listen. They can hear this new message loud and clear.

camelotkid
05-09-2012, 09:34
This just in... NC voters vote a big "NO" on letting homos play at marriage or even the quaint little arrangement they like to style as civil unions. Ah power to the people! Yea boy! Wonderful to see what happens when the people speak. And amazingly, professional politician listen. They can hear this new message loud and clear.
the hate must keep you warm, by the time you realize you are wrong it will be too late :rofl:

kirgi08
05-09-2012, 09:49
Failed as it should have.We are the bible belt.'08.

Brucev
05-09-2012, 10:23
the hate must keep you warm, by the time you realize you are wrong it will be too late :rofl:
You are mistaken. You mistake arises from your equating hatred with abject rejection of a repugnant degenerate abnormal lifestyle.

HexHead
05-09-2012, 11:40
Once the queers eventually win on this issue, I wonder what group will next become the cause célèbre for the left? I'm guessing pedophiles will be next. After all, the left will claim they are born that way too, so we must need to accept them, just like their gay argument. And if we don't, they will label us Pedophobes.

Alizard
05-09-2012, 12:53
Originally Posted by Gunhaver http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18770808#post18770808)
How exactly is it being put in your face? Do you wake up to a homosexual couple making out on your front lawn every morning? Might want to turn the garden hose on them.

You see gay men holding hands or kissing or whatever just like hetero couples have always done and you just can't handle it. You're not man enough to let people go about their business that doesn't hurt you. It's weak and pathetic that you let it bother you so much. Do you avoid giving a woman a kiss in public for fear that you might offend some homo couple?

Your arguments always boil down to, "You can't do that because I have a problem with it but I'm going to do it even if you have a problem with it."


Amen.

Alizard
05-09-2012, 13:00
You are mistaken. You mistake arises from your equating hatred with abject rejection of a repugnant degenerate abnormal lifestyle.No, he's exactly right. If you just wanted to reject the lifestyle, you would simply not become a gay or follow the lifestyle. No, this is all about persecuting them, making them the focus of hatred and discrimination, and eradicating them from your lives.... pretty much the definition of bigotry.

Everytime I see the "good christians" out there holding the "Fags Burn in Hell" signs or posting things like you just did, I wonder what bible they could be reading. In mine, Christ made it clear that we are not allowed to judge others or condemn them for actions we perceive as wrong since we are all sinners.

Oh well, one thing I know for sure is people who love to hate are addicted to it and won't give it up.

Alizard
05-09-2012, 13:04
Once the queers eventually win on this issue, I wonder what group will next become the cause célèbre for the left? I'm guessing pedophiles will be next.WOW. Finding somebody who equates gays and child molesters is like finding somebody who still thinks the earth is flat. BTW, most pedophiles are heterosexual in their adult orientation, they just have a strong desire to molest children.

One more thing the gays are to be blamed for? Like the "destruction of marriage"? Funny how gays destroy marriage....... not serial adulterous cheaters like Newt Gingrich who champions himself the candidate for the party of "family values". Sometimes the hypocrisy gets so deep you can't even see the bottom of the well.

Brucev
05-09-2012, 15:34
[QUOTE=Alizard;18946563]No, he's exactly right. If you just wanted to reject the lifestyle, you would simply not become a gay or follow the lifestyle. No, this is all about persecuting them, making them the focus of hatred and discrimination, and eradicating them from your lives.... pretty much the definition of bigotry. Actually... no. I completely reject the lifestyle as anything other than aberrance. I despise it. I have no use for it. I will not tolerate it. I will not accommodate those who practice it as though they are anything except abnormal. I will not live and let live... I will not pass and repass. I will call it the spade that it is and if someone doesn't like it, then that is the rock they will have to carry. As to your concern about bigotry, it is meaningless. For it to have any merit, you would have to be significant.

Everytime I see the "good christians" out there holding the "Fags Burn in Hell" signs or posting things like you just did, I wonder what bible they could be reading. In mine, Christ made it clear that we are not allowed to judge others or condemn them for actions we perceive as wrong since we are all sinners. Try again. No where are believers told to tolerate evil, sin, etc. As to those who do the signs/protest bit, that is their responsibility, not mine. So... why don't you complain to them? Hum?

Oh well, one thing I know for sure is people who love to hate are addicted to it and won't give it up. Agree. Let me know when some who hates shows up in this thread. At least for the present, the only instances of hate have been when advocates of the homo lifestyle have accused of hatred those who reject them and their lifestyle. It's about like the pretend problem of homophobia. More than likely it reflects rampant heterophobia among the homos.

Sendarr
05-09-2012, 16:03
How exactly is it being put in your face? Do you wake up to a homosexual couple making out on your front lawn every morning? Might want to turn the garden hose on them.

You see gay men holding hands or kissing or whatever just like hetero couples have always done and you just can't handle it. You're not man enough to let people go about their business that doesn't hurt you. It's weak and pathetic that you let it bother you so much. Do you avoid giving a woman a kiss in public for fear that you might offend some homo couple?

Your arguments always boil down to, "You can't do that because I have a problem with it but I'm going to do it even if you have a problem with it."

Just curious, do you have kids?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Alizard
05-09-2012, 16:09
[QUOTE=Alizard;18946563]No, he's exactly right. If you just wanted to reject the lifestyle, you would simply not become a gay or follow the lifestyle. No, this is all about persecuting them, making them the focus of hatred and discrimination, and eradicating them from your lives.... pretty much the definition of bigotry. Actually... no. I completely reject the lifestyle as anything other than aberrance. I despise it. I have no use for it. I will not tolerate it. I will not accommodate those who practice it as though they are anything except abnormal. I will not live and let live... I will not pass and repass. I will call it the spade that it is and if someone doesn't like it, then that is the rock they will have to carry. As to your concern about bigotry, it is meaningless. For it to have any merit, you would have to be significant.

Everytime I see the "good christians" out there holding the "Fags Burn in Hell" signs or posting things like you just did, I wonder what bible they could be reading. In mine, Christ made it clear that we are not allowed to judge others or condemn them for actions we perceive as wrong since we are all sinners. Try again. No where are believers told to tolerate evil, sin, etc. As to those who do the signs/protest bit, that is their responsibility, not mine. So... why don't you complain to them? Hum?

Oh well, one thing I know for sure is people who love to hate are addicted to it and won't give it up. Agree. Let me know when some who hates shows up in this thread. At least for the present, the only instances of hate have been when advocates of the homo lifestyle have accused of hatred those who reject them and their lifestyle. It's about like the pretend problem of homophobia. More than likely it reflects rampant heterophobia among the homos.I could write a reply, but I doubt if I need to add anything to what you already posted:

I despise it. I have no use for it. I will not tolerate it. The pathological loathing oozes out of your postings. I don't give a crap, just keep sailing down denial river. I just don't understand why you are so obsessed with persecuting gays and attacking anybody who says we ought to give them the same legal rights as the other Americans.

I do agree with one thing you posted, which sums it all up well:

For it to have any merit, you would have to be significant.

It doesn't, you ain't.

Alizard
05-09-2012, 16:11
Just curious, do you have kids?

Oh boy..... are we about to be treated to the myth that kids "learn" to be gay from adults or that gays are all closet pedophiles?

God help us, this is just too depressing.

whenmonkeysfly
05-09-2012, 20:37
Sorry folks, but I just cannot support gay marriage. I blame it on my Christian values and old age. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

So if two people of the same sex try to procreate, what will their children look like and how will they behave? :shocked: What will become of the human race?

Gunhaver
05-09-2012, 23:14
Just curious, do you have kids?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

3, and I teach them all sorts of abhorrent things, that people can love whomever they want however they want as long as nobody involved is unhappy with the situation, that evil people who believe silly fairy tales hate other people for stupid reasons and want to control your life, that they are here for a maybe 100 years if they're lucky and that's it so they better make the best of their time, that every time a person or animal or anything living is born it's a little bit closer to being something different than before and that's why we used to be monkeys who used to be big mouse critters who used to be lizards who used to be fish who used to be tiny germs like the ones they see under their microscopes.

But the most important thing I teach them is how to call their friends out on their BS.

ModGlock17
05-09-2012, 23:17
Once the queers eventually win on this issue, I wonder what group will next become the cause célèbre for the left? I'm guessing pedophiles will be next. After all, the left will claim they are born that way too, so we must need to accept them, just like their gay argument. And if we don't, they will label us Pedophobes.

Probably a union between man (woman) and his best friend (her male black dane). Then dogs can get a social security number and be on 1040 forms along with his human companion.:rofl:

ModGlock17
05-09-2012, 23:17
duplicate

Gunhaver
05-09-2012, 23:19
Sorry folks, but I just cannot support gay marriage. I blame it on my Christian values and old age. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

So if two people of the same sex try to procreate, what will their children look like and how will they behave? :shocked: What will become of the human race?

Kudos for at least admitting that the decision has been made for you and you don't have the luxury of being allowed to think objectively about this but 7 billion people ain't enough for you?

Gunhaver
05-09-2012, 23:26
Once the queers eventually win on this issue, I wonder what group will next become the cause célèbre for the left? I'm guessing pedophiles will be next. After all, the left will claim they are born that way too, so we must need to accept them, just like their gay argument. And if we don't, they will label us Pedophobes.

No telling where it will stop since from a legal standpoint a consenting adult is the same as a child, a pet goat or a washing machine. There's no distinction whatsoever. :upeyes:

There's a good thread over in the religious issues forum on intellectual dishonesty that you should probably read.

ModGlock17
05-09-2012, 23:34
Sorry folks, but I just cannot support gay marriage. I blame it on my Christian values and old age. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

So if two people of the same sex try to procreate, what will their children look like and how will they behave? :shocked: What will become of the human race?

Homosexuality is not a physical and natural state of the human body. The science of human biology can attest to that.

Rather, homosexuality is a behavior,

often mistakenly equated to the aspects of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status in discrimination laws.

Gunhaver
05-10-2012, 02:17
Homosexuality is not a physical and natural state of the human body. The science of human biology can attest to that.

Rather, homosexuality is a behavior,

often mistakenly equated to the aspects of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status in discrimination laws.

Homosexuality is not a behavior. One can be attracted to the opposite sex or the same sex and remain celibate for whatever reason and they're still either homo or hetero or bi sexual based on their preference. No need to act on that preference to know what you like.
But assuming you were right, wouldn't religion be a behavior as well? Does that mean you have to capitulate to people that don't agree with your religion and instead live the way they want or at the very least tolerate the government's refusal to treat you as equal to them? What if they were rabid about it making loads of weak arguments why you should do as they do and used flaccid words like "abhorrent", "unnatural" and "sinful", does that make a difference? Maybe you'd think they were just ignorant bigots that need to STFU and mind their own business.

Seems to me that religion is clearly decided by how one is raised while sexual orientation either way occurs naturally. That means that people have more right to protection for sexual orientation than religion and given enough time and enough dead, cranky old people that's exactly where our society will be.

Kingarthurhk
05-10-2012, 05:20
No, he's exactly right. If you just wanted to reject the lifestyle, you would simply not become a gay or follow the lifestyle. No, this is all about persecuting them, making them the focus of hatred and discrimination, and eradicating them from your lives.... pretty much the definition of bigotry.

Everytime I see the "good christians" out there holding the "Fags Burn in Hell" signs or posting things like you just did, I wonder what bible they could be reading. In mine, Christ made it clear that we are not allowed to judge others or condemn them for actions we perceive as wrong since we are all sinners.

Oh well, one thing I know for sure is people who love to hate are addicted to it and won't give it up.

I have a problem with it being taught to my children as being normal and acceptable. Then it violates my family's rights. I have the right to teach my children the following, and not have the state interfere:

Leviticus 18:6-28, "“‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.
7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you."

These are things that pretty much accepted in society as wrong, except when it comes to homosexuality? Why is that? Better mainstream media and Hollywood press?

Either way, I have the right and the ability to teach my children these things are wrong, without the state trying to brainwash them with books like "So and So has two Dads", etc. When the state decides to do that, they have violated MY freedom under the First Amendment.

camelotkid
05-10-2012, 07:50
you do have that right and you can excercise it by homeschooling your children or sending them to a private christian school that YOU can pay for. But don't expect it to be taught or reinforced in public school.

Kingarthurhk
05-10-2012, 14:37
you do have that right and you can excercise it by homeschooling your children or sending them to a private christian school that YOU can pay for. But don't expect it to be taught or reinforced in public school.

That is my point, THIS sort of thing doesn't belong in a public school, it belongs to the parents. The public school is supported by all tax payer money by those who own property, not just a small minority with a bone to pick. Therefore, I should expect that my children should not be taught that homosexuality is acceptable in a public school setting. It has no place in a setting that should be about the basics: reading, writing, math, and science. Nothing more, nothing less.

Brucev
05-10-2012, 16:48
That is my point, THIS sort of thing doesn't belong in a public school, it belongs to the parents. The public school is supported by all tax payer money by those who own property, not just a small minority with a bone to pick. Therefore, I should expect that my children should not be taught that homosexuality is acceptable in a public school setting. It has no place in a setting that should be about the basics: reading, writing, math, and science. Nothing more, nothing less.

Calm down. Calm down. The homos are like every other liberal group. They want to use the school system as a weapon in their culture war on America. They what to put "decorator vest" on the minds of other peoples children just as islamic terrorists put explosive vest on the bodies of other peoples children... to use as disposable weapons.

GRIMLET
05-10-2012, 17:22
Once the queers eventually win on this issue, I wonder what group will next become the cause célèbre for the left? I'm guessing pedophiles will be next. After all, the left will claim they are born that way too, so we must need to accept them, just like their gay argument. And if we don't, they will label us Pedophobes.

Funny, how it seems to be right leaning sexually repressed types who like the kiddies.....

GRIMLET
05-10-2012, 17:25
Sorry folks, but I just cannot support gay marriage. I blame it on my Christian values and old age. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

So if two people of the same sex try to procreate, what will their children look like and how will they behave? :shocked: What will become of the human race?

How does that work when two Christians marry and have children who rape murder and steal?
How does a homosexual child "learn" his/her behavior from church minded married heterosexuals?

GRIMLET
05-10-2012, 17:31
I have a problem with it being taught to my children as being normal and acceptable. Then it violates my family's rights. I have the right to teach my children the following, and not have the state interfere:

Leviticus 18:6-28, "“‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.
7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you."

These are things that pretty much accepted in society as wrong, except when it comes to homosexuality? Why is that? Better mainstream media and Hollywood press?

Either way, I have the right and the ability to teach my children these things are wrong, without the state trying to brainwash them with books like "So and So has two Dads", etc. When the state decides to do that, they have violated MY freedom under the First Amendment.

Is this a pick and choose? Most verses seem to be treated this way by its "believers"

RichardB
05-11-2012, 08:05
Is this a pick and choose? Most verses seem to be treated this way by its "believers"


Except for the most orthodox Jews, most of the 500 or so rules in Leviticus are ignored by those of us for whom this book is part of our Holy writs. We Christians have bought into the idea that there is a new New Covenant superseding the older "How To Be A Godly Guy" rules as written in Leviticus. Now we must only believe that Jesus is the human manifestation of the Almighty and behave by loving our other people as much as we love ourselves (we are left to figure out the other specific actions and prohibitions).

Alizard
05-11-2012, 14:04
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18949308#post18949308)
I have a problem with it being taught to my children as being normal and acceptable. Then it violates my family's rights. I have the right to teach my children the following, and not have the state interfere:

Leviticus 18:6-28, "“‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.
7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you."

These are things that pretty much accepted in society as wrong, except when it comes to homosexuality? Why is that? Better mainstream media and Hollywood press?
But you missed some of the really good ones.....

‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

“‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife —with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

“‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

(What did the poor animal do wrong?)

16 “‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal.

For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.

“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

20 “‘If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment

7 “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.




And this is the source of information that "good christians" use to persecute an entire class of people.....

GRIMLET
05-11-2012, 17:49
God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve! :dunno:

I thought he made adam and lilith first??????

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 14:19
But you missed some of the really good ones.....

‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

“‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife —with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

“‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

(What did the poor animal do wrong?)

16 “‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal.

For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.

“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

20 “‘If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment

7 “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.




And this is the source of information that "good christians" use to persecute an entire class of people.....

The bold has what to do with sex exactly?

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 14:28
But you missed some of the really good ones.....

‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

“‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife —with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

“‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

(What did the poor animal do wrong?)

16 “‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal.

For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.

“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

20 “‘If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment

7 “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.




And this is the source of information that "good christians" use to persecute an entire class of people.....

What does the bold have anything to do with sex?

TTM65
05-13-2012, 01:54
All I can say is WOW, what a bunch of pathetic people I see here. There will come a day when you discover just how wrong you were throughout your mesirable lives. Go ahead and accept gay marriage, unions, whatever you want to call it. It is just another topic that proves the moral decline of this once great nation is still in full motion.

NH Trucker
05-13-2012, 02:13
I have a problem with it being taught to my children as being normal and acceptable. Then it violates my family's rights. I have the right to teach my children the following, and not have the state interfere:

Leviticus 18:6-28, "“‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.
7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you."

These are things that pretty much accepted in society as wrong, except when it comes to homosexuality? Why is that? Better mainstream media and Hollywood press?

Either way, I have the right and the ability to teach my children these things are wrong, without the state trying to brainwash them with books like "So and So has two Dads", etc. When the state decides to do that, they have violated MY freedom under the First Amendment.



You forgot Leviticus 20:13

“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."


So, who's bringing the bucket of rocks to the pride parade? :whistling: