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mike g35
09-15-2011, 12:00
I am going to be purchasing either a Dillon 650 or a 550B w/ caliber conversion next month. I read the descriptions of each machine on Dillons website but since this will be my first reloading set-up ever I wanted to ask some questions on here.
1. Which of the two presses I mentioned would you buy and why?
2.What other equipment should I order right away with the press (besides dies)?
3. What are the advantages and disadvantages of the 550B and 650?

I have been paying massive amounts of money shooting 1000 to 1200 rounds a month and now that my father is also shooting the same amount as I do factory ammo is no longer even an option. I have to get the press very soon so all your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Colorado4Wheel
09-15-2011, 12:12
Both are great presses. Some people prefer on over the other for personal reasons. In the end the entire decision boils down to

COST
vs
Time to Reload
vs
Amount of Ammo you need.

So a guy with a small budget is going to choose the 550 simply due to cost.

So a guy with a larger budget but not a lot of time is going to pick the 650 with Casefeeder. Simply to crank out a lot of ammo quickly.

A guy with plenty of time could make all his ammo on a 550 no problem.

Realistically, the 650 is going to be about 200+ rds a hour faster. It's actually a lot faster in short 100 rd burst but pulling a handle for a complete hour is tiring. Most people load in shorter time periods. I can easily load 100 rds in 10 mins on a 550. Not even trying hard. I can do 100 rds in 6 mins on my 650 with the casefeeder also not trying hard at all.

Just don't plan the 550 with a Casefeeder or the 650 with out the casefeeder.

Boxerglocker
09-15-2011, 12:28
Steve pretty much nailed it... If you have the time a 550 will most likely be the best choice for you. Caliber changes on a 650 can get tricky if not already versed in the aspects of reloading. Where on a 550 it's a simply tool head and locator pin swap for 9 to 40.

ron59
09-15-2011, 12:46
I bought a 550B, but wish I had gone ahead and gotten the 650. Money was a bit of an issue for me, and I wasn't sure how well I'd like reloading. The 650 is in my very near future.

If you were to buy a 650 and decided you didn't like it? You could probably get 90% of your money back, easy. Not too many consumer products can you say that about.

mike g35
09-15-2011, 12:57
Steve pretty much nailed it... If you have the time a 550 will most likely be the best choice for you. Caliber changes on a 650 can get tricky if not already versed in the aspects of reloading. Where on a 550 it's a simply tool head and locator pin swap for 9 to 40.
That was my worry. I need to keep things as simple as possible because I have zero experience. I think the 550B will work fine for me. Are there any other accessories that I will not be able to do with out that don't come with the 550? I really want to hit the ground running if you know what I mean.

fredj338
09-15-2011, 13:06
That was my worry. I need to keep things as simple as possible because I have zero experience. I think the 550B will work fine for me. Are there any other accessories that I will not be able to do with out that don't come with the 550? I really want to hit the ground running if you know what I mean.

If you are going to load a bunch of diff calibers, the 550 has a cost & simplicity advantage IMO. For one or two calibers that you shoot a ton, the 650 w/ case feeder is tough to beat. The cost diff IMO, not a real issue for 1 or 2 calibers. You'll easily get that back the first year of reloading @ 1200rd/m.
The basic 550 comes w/ everything you need but calipers & a scale to set the powder measure. The strong mount, roller handle & bullet tray are nice, but may or may not be useful to you. Your bench setup will dictate how you mount the press. The SM raises it some 8" of so. I reload standing, so no problem, but you can always add stuff. A couple good manuals & you are on your way.

mike g35
09-15-2011, 13:34
I will be building my bench to fit whatever I get so thats not an issue. I looked at Dillons site again and did the interactive buying thing. Looks like it will cost me about $925 or so to get what I need (and want) to start. Some of the things I added were case tumbler, digital micrometer, strong mount, primer flipping tray, and the cartridge tray that mounts to the strong mount. I plan to make this set up the best it can be and I am more than willing to drop around $1500 so the price of everything kind of suprised me. I would have never guessed you could get started for less than a grand. I will probably have more questions but between you guys helping and the manual I bought I think I have a good idea of what to get to start out with. Thanks guys, I appreciate your help.

IndyGunFreak
09-15-2011, 13:49
I will be building my bench to fit whatever I get so thats not an issue. I looked at Dillons site again and did the interactive buying thing. Looks like it will cost me about $925 or so to get what I need (and want) to start. Some of the things I added were case tumbler, digital micrometer, strong mount, primer flipping tray, and the cartridge tray that mounts to the strong mount. I plan to make this set up the best it can be and I am more than willing to drop around $1500 so the price of everything kind of suprised me. I would have never guessed you could get started for less than a grand. I will probably have more questions but between you guys helping and the manual I bought I think I have a good idea of what to get to start out with. Thanks guys, I appreciate your help.

You should be able to come in under a grand.... post an exact list of what you're buying, and what calibers you're loading.

Scale -- If you're getting Dillons' Digital scale, save the money and get a beam. A beam scale is not that difficult, and Dillons' is top notch.

Calipers/Micrometer -- Dillons are pricey, Hit Harbor Freight.. They frequently have 8in Digital Calipers on sale for less than $20. 6in are sometimes less than $12. I personally really like Dial Calipers (which HF usually has for about $10-$12...) but either will work fine, so long as batteries are kept in the Digitals.

Tumbler/Media Separator -- Dillons are expensive -- Might want to check MidwayUSA for some better deals on a tumbler/media separator. --- If money is an issue, These are what you skip. If you've got a utility sink (or even a bucket) you can soak them in hot soapy water, then rinse, then let them dry really good in front of a fan. Will you be able to attract women of "ill repute" with your shiny brass? No, but it will work just fine.

Primer Flip Tray -- Dillons are way over built, and expensive because of it. If you have a Gander Mountain near you, I bought my "oversized" Lyman there for about $4. If you get a round one, you want to make sure it's large enough you can fit a primer tray on it. RCBS sells a square one that runs about $8, that is good as well.

That's a start... post your list, and I imagine most of us can get you under 1k.

IGF

xXGearheadXx
09-15-2011, 14:04
I can't speak for the 550, but i can for the XL650. I went with a 650 for the extra station...leaves me the option of adding a bullet feeder or powder checker down the road. A combo seat crimp die would free up a station on the 550, but i don't like the idea of a 2 in one seat/crimp die.

stuff you need, make sure you have the basics:
Scale -
Calipers
Tumbler/Separator - Frankfurt arsenal makes a nice and cheap combo
Primer tray (recomend RCBS...square=win)
Manuals...? well i don't own any. Online data's been fine so far.

What I'd buy in addition to a 650?
1. Case feeder. You can run it without a case feeder but only 20-22 bullets (assuming 9mm length) at a time. Not an immediate need but definately a worthwhile upgrade.
2. Extra primer pickups. I think $22 per 4 tubes. Can't go wrong with it.
3. 1" wrenches...2 of em.
4. Bullet feeder down the road.:cool:
5. A can of compressed air...use it to blow off spilled powder. trust me on this.
6. Hornady one shot for cleaning dies.
7. Depending on the height you'd like, a Dillon Stong mount isn't a bad idea. Love mine.
8. Extra decapping pins.

Beanie-Bean
09-15-2011, 14:10
Congrats on your new rig! I'll share with you some of the things I should have picked up when I ordered my press.

1. 550 toolholder w/wrenches. I used a regular crescent wrench, and the supplied hex keys to set up the press initially.

2. Kinetic bullet puller. I made a bunch of dummy rounds with some nice Hornady XTP bullets, and I had to wait for my hammer thing to come in so I could remove and use them.

3. Powder, primers, bullets. I should have priced these out prior to buying locally, because I paid a lot more than I should have had I done my research up front.

4. Reloading manuals. I ended up with Hornady, Lyman, Speer, VihtaVouri, and the "Complete" manuals.

5. Order extra toolheads and powder dies for the different calibers you'll be loading. Refer to the caliber conversion tables to see if you already have parts from one kit to load another caliber. For example, 9mm and .40 share the same shellplate, which is a good chunk of the conversion kit's cost.

6. Check out C4W's sticky, along with the other information at the top of the posts. Good info there.

I did go with the Strong Mount for mine, along with the Dillon Eliminator beam scale. Digital calipers are nice, and I ordered mine from Amazon. Neiko is the brand I picked up. I have the Frankford Arsenal tumbling kit, too, and that shipped with everything to make your cases shiny and lemony-fresh.

Tpro
09-15-2011, 14:40
I will be building my bench to fit whatever I get so thats not an issue. I looked at Dillons site again and did the interactive buying thing. Looks like it will cost me about $925 or so to get what I need (and want) to start. Some of the things I added were case tumbler, digital micrometer, strong mount, primer flipping tray, and the cartridge tray that mounts to the strong mount. I plan to make this set up the best it can be and I am more than willing to drop around $1500 so the price of everything kind of suprised me. I would have never guessed you could get started for less than a grand. I will probably have more questions but between you guys helping and the manual I bought I think I have a good idea of what to get to start out with. Thanks guys, I appreciate your help.

If all this is true (and I have no reason to think it's not) then pay attention to what IGF said (to cut back on some of that over priced Dillon stuff) and step up and get the 650 with a case feeder. For the number of rounds you are going to make I think it's silly to manually index a press, not have a case feeder and not seat and crimp in seperate stations. You seem articulate enough in your posts that you should pick up reloading very fast. It not THAT hard. I just told a customer to buy a Lee Classic turret because he didn't have enough cash for something else. He'll be here in an hour or so for some lessons, and I'm 98% sure after I teach him on a progressive (a LnL AP) he will go home and hate the LCT. So the principal is the same with what you are doing. Way too many guys on here would trade up to a 650 after the 550. Be very careful before you buy something you will want to replace in a year (or LESS), especially since you were ready to drop a grand and a half. Don't skimp here on press.

Colorado4Wheel
09-15-2011, 14:55
I will be building my bench to fit whatever I get so thats not an issue. I looked at Dillons site again and did the interactive buying thing. Looks like it will cost me about $925 or so to get what I need (and want) to start. Some of the things I added were case tumbler, digital micrometer, strong mount, primer flipping tray, and the cartridge tray that mounts to the strong mount. I plan to make this set up the best it can be and I am more than willing to drop around $1500 so the price of everything kind of suprised me. I would have never guessed you could get started for less than a grand. I will probably have more questions but between you guys helping and the manual I bought I think I have a good idea of what to get to start out with. Thanks guys, I appreciate your help.

Get the 650 with casefeeder. You will be kicking your self if you don't. Add a roller handle. I built all my bench's high. So no strong mount needed. 47" because I like to stand. Besides that read my sticky. Lots of Dillon stuff is good. Some is way over priced. Their primer flipper is HUGELY expensive compared to the RCBS that works better in my experience. Same with their calipers compared to Harbour Frieght..

mike g35
09-15-2011, 15:05
If all this is true (and I have no reason to think it's not) then pay attention to what IGF said (to cut back on some of that over priced Dillon stuff) and step up and get the 650 with a case feeder. For the number of rounds you are going to make I think it's silly to manually index a press, not have a case feeder and not seat and crimp in seperate stations. You seem articulate enough in your posts that you should pick up reloading very fast. It not THAT hard. I just told a customer to buy a Lee Classic turret because he didn't have enough cash for something else. He'll be here in an hour or so for some lessons, and I'm 98% sure after I teach him on a progressive (a LnL AP) he will go home and hate the LCT. So the principal is the same with what you are doing. Way too many guys on here would trade up to a 650 after the 550. Be very careful before you buy something you will want to replace in a year (or LESS), especially since you were ready to drop a grand and a half. Don't skimp here on press.
My only issue with the 650 is Ihave been told its hard to change out calibers on it, at least harder than the 550. After doing some research it does look like alot of the stuff I was going to get is made by other companies and they cost less so thanks for that tip. My question is are the Dillon Precision products (scales, case tumbler, etc.) high quality? If so I will most likely still get them just to make buying everything easier on me. Are there any Dillon Precision products that you gentleman think should be avoided? And thanks to everyone by the way, this thread has been very educational for me.

PCJim
09-15-2011, 15:09
I use a 550b. I've never seen a 650 up close. That being said, shooting 2500 rounds a month equals a little over 600/week which is easily accomplished in one and a half hours on a 550b. I would also expect that the 550b is a much simpler machine for a beginner to learn on and to master.

As mentioned earlier, a lot of your startup items can be more economically purchased from other sources (primer flip tray, tumbler, media, caliper, bullet puller, even other manufacturer dies, etc.). I would suggest that you purchase a four pack of extra primer tubes, depending upon what caliber you are reloading, when you order your press. If you will be reloading both large and small primers, order a four pack of both.

You haven't mentioned mention what calibers you are wanting to reload?

Buy your initial primers locally as well as your powder (one pound cans until you determine which powder you like best). Once you've found a favorite powder, order both powder and primers in bulk online so that you spread the HM charges across a wider material base. There is no HM on bullets, so order the design you like best from whomever has them in stock. A lot of us shoot lead bullets due to their economy, and they work just as well as jacketed in any of the competition sports. I believe there is a sticky on components at the top of the thread.

Boxerglocker
09-15-2011, 15:17
My only issue with the 650 is Ihave been told its hard to change out calibers on it, at least harder than the 550. After doing some research it does look like alot of the stuff I was going to get is made by other companies and they cost less so thanks for that tip. My question is are the Dillon Precision products (scales, case tumbler, etc.) high quality? If so I will most likely still get them just to make buying everything easier on me. Are there any Dillon Precision products that you gentleman think should be avoided? And thanks to everyone by the way, this thread has been very educational for me.

Props to you sir your paying attention. A XL650 conversion change even with a quick change is a little time consuming. Your anticipating to load approx 2200 rounds in 2 calibers a month. Once you get the hang of the 550, 500 an hour shouldn't be a problem.
I wouldn't recommend a 650 unless you were up to at least 2K a month in a single caliber. A complete quick change caliber conversion for a 650 is about $250.
My advice would be to start with a 550 and when you hit 2K in either one caliber get a 650 to load that one and have the 550 as your "do it all" press.

mike g35
09-15-2011, 15:51
Props to you sir your paying attention. A XL650 conversion change even with a quick change is a little time consuming. Your anticipating to load approx 2200 rounds in 2 calibers a month. Once you get the hang of the 550, 500 an hour shouldn't be a problem.
I wouldn't recommend a 650 unless you were up to at least 2K a month in a single caliber. A complete quick change caliber conversion for a 650 is about $250.
My advice would be to start with a 550 and when you hit 2K in either one caliber get a 650 to load that one and have the 550 as your "do it all" press.
Yes sir I am definitely paying attention.I wouldn't take up everyones time with this if not. I appreciate the advice I get. Here's the list I was asked to provide:
Dillon 550B w/ caliber conversion kit (40S&W dies)
Instructional DVD and Speer reloading manual
Spare parts kit
Strong Mount
Bullet Tray
toolholder w/ wrenches
bench wrench
cartridge case bin
set of 9mm dies
Dillon Eliminator Scale
primer pick-up tube (didn't know large or small but I guessed small)
primer flip tray
digital caliper
CV750 cae cleaner
case cleaning media
case lube
The price of all of that was $987.29 so its still well within my limit of $1500. Is there anything listed I do not need? Anything not listed that I will need?

Colorado4Wheel
09-15-2011, 15:57
My only issue with the 650 is Ihave been told its hard to change out calibers on it, at least harder than the 550. After doing some research it does look like alot of the stuff I was going to get is made by other companies and they cost less so thanks for that tip. My question is are the Dillon Precision products (scales, case tumbler, etc.) high quality? If so I will most likely still get them just to make buying everything easier on me. Are there any Dillon Precision products that you gentleman think should be avoided? And thanks to everyone by the way, this thread has been very educational for me.

It's not "hard" to change. Not at all. It just takes a little longer. 550 is easier. But once you get used to it neither is hard.

How much do you shoot in each caliber?

fredj338
09-15-2011, 16:12
It's not "hard" to change. Not at all. It just takes a little longer. 550 is easier. But once you get used to it neither is hard.

How much do you shoot in each caliber?

This is really the question that you need to answer. A 650 IMO is a production machine, set it up & don't change it often. If you pop back & forth, 1000rds at a time, the 550B will actually be an easier machine to setup & use. YesI have both & like both, but that is JME. I leave the 650 setup for 45acp & load everything else on the 550 & a ss press.

mike g35
09-15-2011, 16:31
I shoot both calibers often. Probably 1200 rounds in each at the least every month. So from what I have read the 550B seems more like the best machine for me. It seems to be easier for a begginer to work that machine. If changing calibers is quicker on the 550 thats what I would like to do. I have loaded 60 rounds for my .308 on a SS press, thats the extent of my experience.

Colorado4Wheel
09-15-2011, 16:44
So 1200 rds of 9mm and .40 a month? Turn that into 2K a month of each once you start reloading. Those are both Small Pistol primers. So you don't convert the primer setup on either machine. On the 550 the shellplate is the same for both. So all you do on the 550 is switch the toolhead. EASY. On the 650 you switch over the shellplate (still easy) and then swap the toolhead (also easy). On the 650 you would have a casefeeder. So you empty the casefeeder, and adjust the slider (not really hard at all) and swap one little part on the casefeeder (not hard). Biggest part that is harder on the 650 to convert is the primer setup. The rest is pretty simple. I would still get the 650 if that is what want to load.

mike g35
09-15-2011, 17:32
So 1200 rds of 9mm and .40 a month? Turn that into 2K a month of each once you start reloading. Those are both Small Pistol primers. So you don't convert the primer setup on either machine. On the 550 the shellplate is the same for both. So all you do on the 550 is switch the toolhead. EASY. On the 650 you switch over the shellplate (still easy) and then swap the toolhead (also easy). On the 650 you would have a casefeeder. So you empty the casefeeder, and adjust the slider (not really hard at all) and swap one little part on the casefeeder (not hard). Biggest part that is harder on the 650 to convert is the primer setup. The rest is pretty simple. I would still get the 650 if that is what want to load.
Thats the kind of explanation I was needing. If thats all there is to it and its easy to do then I'm sold. Why not, I would have a better machine with better resale value and its able to load faster. Thats important since , when you think about it, I am shooting 1200 rounds per month in both calibers now and when I reload I will be shooting more than that. Thats part of the reason I want to reload in the first place. VERY good point you have there sir. One question and then I will stop asking, is there any difference in price for the parts necassary to change calibers on the 650 compared to the 550? In other words will it cost me an arm and a leg to get the parts to load for both calibers?

RustyFN
09-15-2011, 17:35
You should be able to come in under a grand.... post an exact list of what you're buying, and what calibers you're loading.

Scale -- If you're getting Dillons' Digital scale, save the money and get a beam. A beam scale is not that difficult, and Dillons' is top notch.

Calipers/Micrometer -- Dillons are pricey, Hit Harbor Freight.. They frequently have 8in Digital Calipers on sale for less than $20. 6in are sometimes less than $12. I personally really like Dial Calipers (which HF usually has for about $10-$12...) but either will work fine, so long as batteries are kept in the Digitals.

Tumbler/Media Separator -- Dillons are expensive -- Might want to check MidwayUSA for some better deals on a tumbler/media separator. --- If money is an issue, These are what you skip. If you've got a utility sink (or even a bucket) you can soak them in hot soapy water, then rinse, then let them dry really good in front of a fan. Will you be able to attract women of "ill repute" with your shiny brass? No, but it will work just fine.

Primer Flip Tray -- Dillons are way over built, and expensive because of it. If you have a Gander Mountain near you, I bought my "oversized" Lyman there for about $4. If you get a round one, you want to make sure it's large enough you can fit a primer tray on it. RCBS sells a square one that runs about $8, that is good as well.

That's a start... post your list, and I imagine most of us can get you under 1k.

IGF

A lot of good advice there.

Colorado4Wheel
09-15-2011, 17:43
Thats the kind of explanation I was needing. If thats all there is to it and its easy to do then I'm sold. Why not, I would have a better machine with better resale value and its able to load faster. Thats important since , when you think about it, I am shooting 1200 rounds per month in both calibers now and when I reload I will be shooting more than that. Thats part of the reason I want to reload in the first place. VERY good point you have there sir. One question and then I will stop asking, is there any difference in price for the parts necassary to change calibers on the 650 compared to the 550? In other words will it cost me an arm and a leg to get the parts to load for both calibers?

Yes, the 650 cost more to convert. A good amount more. But you will be happy with the 650. I am sure of it. I am going to suggest you go to
www.brianenos.com
He has a great site and is a great guy to talk to. Free shipping as well.

Javelin
09-15-2011, 17:57
Yes, the 650 cost more to convert. A good amount more. But you will be happy with the 650. I am sure of it. I am going to suggest you go to
www.brianenos.com
He has a great site and is a great guy to talk to. Free shipping as well.

Brian's website says to go with the 550 no matter what if you are new to reloading/

:dunno:

Boxerglocker
09-15-2011, 19:01
Thats the kind of explanation I was needing. If thats all there is to it and its easy to do then I'm sold. Why not, I would have a better machine with better resale value and its able to load faster. Thats important since , when you think about it, I am shooting 1200 rounds per month in both calibers now and when I reload I will be shooting more than that. Thats part of the reason I want to reload in the first place. VERY good point you have there sir. One question and then I will stop asking, is there any difference in price for the parts necassary to change calibers on the 650 compared to the 550? In other words will it cost me an arm and a leg to get the parts to load for both calibers?

A XL650 complete conversion with quick change runs significantly more than one for a 550B. You have all the case feed parts to consider plus the case feed plate.

unclebob
09-15-2011, 19:02
Brian's website says to go with the 550 no matter what if you are new to reloading/

:dunno:

So what is the difference if you do not put the case feeder on the press and load one round at a time until the person knows what is going on? That applies to a 550, LNL, or a 650.
A 650 press is not complicated as some people try and make it out to be. If the OP has two complete tool head setup with powder measure. Two complete primer magazines. Once those are setup from then on itís just a matter of remove and replace 8 pieces that you just pull off and put the other one on and unscrew two pieces and screw the other pieces on. One adjustments the shell plate. Except for the first setup. I can go from loading 9mm to 45acp in about 7 minutes. After loading on both the 550 and 650 even if I only loaded 1000rds a week I would still get the 650. If the 650 would have been in production at the time I bought the 550 I would have never owned the 550.

mike g35
09-15-2011, 19:04
Brian's website says to go with the 550 no matter what if you are new to reloading/

:dunno:
That plus the 650 takes more time to switch calibers, it costs more, changing calibers costs more, plus whatever else. I think the 500 will serve my needs. If I want a 650 later I will justsell the 550 and get one. I have to stay with what I know will be easy for a beginner and thats the 550. However I do appreciate the advice on the 650. Who knows I may get one later on. Thanks to everyone. :wavey:

Boxerglocker
09-15-2011, 19:29
That plus the 650 takes more time to switch calibers, it costs more, changing calibers costs more, plus whatever else. I think the 500 will serve my needs. If I want a 650 later I will justsell the 550 and get one. I have to stay with what I know will be easy for a beginner and thats the 550. However I do appreciate the advice on the 650. Who knows I may get one later on. Thanks to everyone. :wavey:

I think the 550B is a great choice for your first press. As much as I love my XL650, in your situation I don't think that I would go the XL650 route.

Colorado4Wheel
09-15-2011, 20:10
"Quick Change" is not needed. The extra Powder Measure adds a lot to the cost.

Using Brian site as a reference get the 9mm 650 with casefeeder, 9mm Dies, Roller Handle, Extra Toolhead and Powder Die, .40 Dies, .40 caliber conversion for the 650, and the Spare Parts Kit for the 650 and Toolholder and Wrench.


Roller Handle - Aluminum - 550/650 $ 42.95
16944 Dillon XL 650 in 38 Super/9mm $ 556.95
21079 Casefeed Assembly - Small Pistol (650/1050) $ 217.95

10330 Reloading Manual - Lyman #49 $ 24.95
14406 Dillon 9mm Carbide 3-Die Set $ 62.95
11555 650 Toolholder with Wrench Set $ 28.95
21146 650 Spare Pts Kit $ 24.95
13480 Eliminator Balance-beam Scale $ 54.95
14398 Dillon 40 S&W/10mm Carbide 3-Die Set $ 62.95
21120 XL 650 Caliber Conv: 40 S&W/10mm $ 76.95
36831 650 Toolhead & Powder Die $ 37.90
22055 Toolhead Stand - 550/650 $ 19.95

Total 1212.35

Personally, I would get the Lee 3 Die Deluxe set, Add a Lee Taper Crimp die and and the extra 1" lock rings. Get a RCBS Primer Flipper, Get a Lyman Tumbler and sifter. Get Harbor Freight Dial Calipers (digital or non, Your call)

I think thats it.

norton
09-15-2011, 20:12
Own a 550, never used a 650.
If I were to do it all again, I would go the 650 route, just for the automatic indexing. Yes I know, its not that hard to advance the shell plate, but it is an extra movement, and you are apparently going to be reloading beau coup rounds.

As others have mentioned, the case feeder for the 550 doesn't get very good reviews on this forum. The case feeder on the 650 does

I do run the Dillon resizing, depriming die. It is superior to either the RCBS or the Lee in my opinion.

Colorado4Wheel
09-15-2011, 20:15
That plus the 650 takes more time to switch calibers, it costs more, changing calibers costs more, plus whatever else. I think the 500 will serve my needs. If I want a 650 later I will justsell the 550 and get one. I have to stay with what I know will be easy for a beginner and thats the 550. However I do appreciate the advice on the 650. Who knows I may get one later on. Thanks to everyone. :wavey:

Buy Ron59's 550 instead. He is you just two or three years farther down the road. He wants a 650 now and has for at least a year. Your a smart, methodical guy. Don't for a second believe the 650 is too complicated for you. I agree with Uncle Bob. Just run a single case at a time till your settled with the machine. That will get old in less then 30 mins. Trust me. If you get confused call Dillon. They will hold your hand.

pm666
09-15-2011, 20:39
Just don't plan the 550 with a Casefeeder or the 650 with out the casefeeder.

What's wrong with buying a 650 without a casefeeder?

I was thinking of the 650 (w/out casefeeder) so I would have an extra station for a powder check wihout having to crimp and something else on one station.

I am concerned about double-charging and/or under-charging.

I am totally new to re-loading. I'm not even convinced I should be doing it.

Thanks,
p

Colorado4Wheel
09-15-2011, 21:04
Powder check dies are totally over rated. You simply look in the case and see the powder. RCBS is finicky. So is the Dillon. Hornady works nicely, but you still have to visually look at it to know if things are ok. I prefer looking in the case rather then at the die.
650 is designed for a casefeeder. It's ergonomics are not set up for loading the case by hand. It can be done, it's just not ideal. 550 is perfect for loading by hand. THat is what it's designed for.

unclebob
09-15-2011, 21:51
What's wrong with buying a 650 without a casefeeder?

I was thinking of the 650 (w/out casefeeder) so I would have an extra station for a powder check wihout having to crimp and something else on one station.

I am concerned about double-charging and/or under-charging.

I am totally new to re-loading. I'm not even convinced I should be doing it.

Thanks,
p

There is nothing wrong with loading on a 650 without a case feeder. A lot of people do. You just have to fill the tube with brass about every 20 or so rounds. And some people even make longer tubes and pre fill them with brass. Or you can rig it so that you can use the Lee case feeder. When I do small runs or load development I feed the cases by hand also.
As for the powder check I like the Dillon. It gives you an audible sound if the powder charge is a double or no powder. If you want, it also gives you a visual check. I personally do not think it is finicky at all. You just have to make sure the pin lines up in the center of the V grove. I also visually check inside of every case. I just like the backup that it provides.

fredj338
09-15-2011, 22:13
What's wrong with buying a 650 without a casefeeder?

I was thinking of the 650 (w/out casefeeder) so I would have an extra station for a powder check wihout having to crimp and something else on one station.

I am concerned about double-charging and/or under-charging.

I am totally new to re-loading. I'm not even convinced I should be doing it.

Thanks,
p
The case feeder doesn't take a stn away. You can' thand feed cases into the 650 as it has case feeder parts attached to stn1 so you have to fill the case feed tube. It was designed form day one to be used w/ the case feeder & while yo ucan make it run fine w/o one, it is kind of a PITA. If I were NOT wanting a case feeder, then the 550 is the way to go IMO or if you think auto indexing is all that useful, get a LNL.

Tpro
09-15-2011, 23:10
That plus the 650 takes more time to switch calibers, it costs more, changing calibers costs more, plus whatever else. I think the 500 will serve my needs. If I want a 650 later I will justsell the 550 and get one. I have to stay with what I know will be easy for a beginner and thats the 550. However I do appreciate the advice on the 650. Who knows I may get one later on. Thanks to everyone. :wavey:


I'm going to say this one last time, just for the record. I agree with C4W and ron59...you seem WAY too smart to short sell yourself. Why would you want to start out with manual indexing, and 4 stations when you can get autoindexing and 5 stations. And yes, for me, autoindexing IS a big deal. Why buy and then add on later, or buy and then sell in a short time? Seems like you are making a simple decision more difficult than it is.

Go to ultimatereloader.com and watch him do a calibur change on the 650. It's not THAT hard that you should struggle with it.

Don't sell yourself short and think that because you lack reloading experience that you can't handle it. I started out with a LnL AP and would not do it any other way. Will soon be adding a case AND bullet feeder. Again, it's not THAT hard.:wavey:

Colorado4Wheel
09-16-2011, 08:16
Get the 550 if you want the 550. To me it just sounds like your afraid of the 650 for the wrong reasons. I can only imagine Brian Doesn't recommend the 650 as a first press for a variety of reasons. Some being he doesn't want a newbie getting in over his head and he is talking to the masses in his write ups. I am going to guess that G35 has someone in his circle of friends with a 650. WAY to many competition guns to not know someone who owns a Dillon of some sort to help him get started.

My personal 650 came setup for 9mm. I didn't have to adjust anything other then the dies. It was about as simple as simple can be to get it started.

PCJim
09-16-2011, 08:33
This thread is beginning to emit images of competing used car salesmen... :supergrin:

If the OP is a bit cautious about getting a 650 at this time, so be it. There is nothing wrong with choosing a 550, and it will serve him very well. If he later feels the need to move into a 650, he can still keep the 550 for rifle or the odd pistol caliber, buy a 650 and still have a combined total of less than his targeted fifteen hundred invested. And with two presses, he might could convince his father to join in the fun of the hobby.

Just saying.... :cool:

mike g35
09-16-2011, 09:34
I ended up spending last night doing ALOT of research on this. The way I see it is if I have the smarts and the ability to build and tune raceguns, which I do, the 650 shouldn't give me any issues. Seems to me that if I bought the 550 it would take all of one month before I was kicking myself in the butt for not getting the better machine. It may take a little more time to get used to but it isn't like I will never figure it out. I'm sure glad I was paying attention to everything said here and took the time to do my research. Thanks again, looks like you guys will have some 650 questions in the near future.:)

mike g35
09-16-2011, 09:35
One more thing after reading about it I think I would prefer the case feeder, hence my decision for the 650.

sellersm
09-16-2011, 12:59
It sounds like you've made a good decision! Congrats. I don't think you'll regret it....

Some of us are sad now, though, cuz I'd love to be able to buy a nice, used 550 in those calibers! :supergrin: But I need a job first..... :sad:

fredj338
09-16-2011, 13:28
One more thing after reading about it I think I would prefer the case feeder, hence my decision for the 650.

That really is the determing factor IMO. The case feeder on the Dillon is superior to the LNL. So that decides it. Let us know when the new toy arrives. There are lots of guys using them, so just about any problem is going to have been seen before.

mike g35
09-16-2011, 13:39
That really is the determing factor IMO. The case feeder on the Dillon is usperior to the LNL. So that decides it. Let us know when the new toy arrives. There are lots of guys using them, so just about any problem is going to have been seen before.
Will do, thanks again gentlemen.:wavey:

Tpro
09-16-2011, 15:38
I ended up spending last night doing ALOT of research on this. The way I see it is if I have the smarts and the ability to build and tune raceguns, which I do, the 650 shouldn't give me any issues. Seems to me that if I bought the 550 it would take all of one month before I was kicking myself in the butt for not getting the better machine. It may take a little more time to get used to but it isn't like I will never figure it out. I'm sure glad I was paying attention to everything said here and took the time to do my research. Thanks again, looks like you guys will have some 650 questions in the near future.:)

Ok, now it seems you have made a decision based on thought and not fear (or whatever holds guys back from being outside their comfort zone) and in the long run you will spend less money. I'm not anti-capitalist, I just think way too many guys put money in manufacturers pockets for stuff they don't need, and then buy what they don't need. Did that make sense????

Tpro
09-16-2011, 15:39
That really is the determing factor IMO. The case feeder on the Dillon is superior to the LNL. So that decides it. Let us know when the new toy arrives. There are lots of guys using them, so just about any problem is going to have been seen before.

Since I will be ordering a casefeeder soon, I'll post my UNBIASED opinion of how it works. My first press, my first case feeder. So we'll see how bad it really is. I won't be loading 9mm so maybe that will help.

IndyGunFreak
09-16-2011, 17:16
One more thing after reading about it I think I would prefer the case feeder, hence my decision for the 650.

If you want a case feeder, no ifs ands or maybes, you made a good decision to go w/ the 650.

Reloading isn't rocket science... Go slow, and you'll have no problems.

fredj338
09-16-2011, 18:10
Since I will be ordering a casefeeder soon, I'll post my UNBIASED opinion of how it works. My first press, my first case feeder. So we'll see how bad it really is. I won't be loading 9mm so maybe that will help.

So exactly how are you going to evaluate your new toy unless you have used both? No disrespect, that is not unbiased but uninformed. I have used both the LNL & Dillon case feeder. the Dillon is superior in design & use. Not by a lot, but still is a better tool.:dunno:

Tpro
09-16-2011, 18:35
So exactly how are you going to evaluate your new toy unless you have used both? No disrespect, that is not unbiased but uninformed. I have used both the LNL & Dillon case feeder. the Dillon is superior in design & use. Not by a lot, but still is a better tool.:dunno:


Because the knock on the LnL AP is that it won't prime (I've never had that issue) and that the case feeder won't feed cases. So no disrespect, but how can I NOT evaluate that?

I have heard guys complaining that the LnL case feeder is so loud that you can't be in the same room with it. I know this is not true of the one I have seen (and heard) with my own eyes. So there is another thing I can evaluate. I damn sure can evaluate quality issues.

And just because this is my first press does not mean I don't have a little experience with other presses (one GT'r that I know of has about the same experience with the LnL AP that I have with the Dillon and his opinions are accepted here) because I didn't buy all they hype about anything before I bought. And Dillon (for me) was backward in every operation, over complex in use and just too busy (for lack of a better term).

And your choice of words is funny. Is the Dillon casefeeder "superior" to the LnL AP casefeeder, or just "better, but not by alot"?

So again, no disrespect, I won't be uninformed, or inexperienced and I will damn sure be unbiased. I don't drink any kool-aid.

There you have it.

unclebob
09-16-2011, 18:58
Something I have never been able to figure out that people say the 650 is backwards? If you have a LNL and a 650 both with case feeders. You install the bullet on the left side on both press and that is it. At least with the 650 the finished round is ejected on the right side and out of the way.:dunno:

Colorado4Wheel
09-16-2011, 19:12
Captured case in a 650 casefeeder slider area.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3501.jpg

LnL slider that does not capture the base of the case to keep it from tipping.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3492.jpg

Plus, the LnL casefeeder is flimsy, mine was made poorly and was uneven/tilted. That hindered performance till I fixed it by drilling out the holes bigger and making it right. It's also noisy. G35 made the right choice simply because he isn't only concerned about money. He will be happy with his choice I am sure.

I promise, that is all I will say on the subject.

fredj338
09-16-2011, 21:31
Because the knock on the LnL AP is that it won't prime (I've never had that issue) and that the case feeder won't feed cases. So no disrespect, but how can I NOT evaluate that?

I have heard guys complaining that the LnL case feeder is so loud that you can't be in the same room with it. I know this is not true of the one I have seen (and heard) with my own eyes. So there is another thing I can evaluate. I damn sure can evaluate quality issues.

And just because this is my first press does not mean I don't have a little experience with other presses (one GT'r that I know of has about the same experience with the LnL AP that I have with the Dillon and his opinions are accepted here) because I didn't buy all they hype about anything before I bought. And Dillon (for me) was backward in every operation, over complex in use and just too busy (for lack of a better term).

And your choice of words is funny. Is the Dillon casefeeder "superior" to the LnL AP casefeeder, or just "better, but not by alot"?

So again, no disrespect, I won't be uninformed, or inexperienced and I will damn sure be unbiased. I don't drink any kool-aid.

There you have it.
Well, unless my hearing is alot better than yours, the LNL feeder is easily twice as loud as the Dillon. When I am at my buddy's house, we can't have a conversation while he is reloading in his 10x10 room, it's that loud. I foprget mine is even on. The Dillon also has a two speed motor, which does help w/ the noise level. Unbiased evaluation really requires a broad range of exp. Like a woman that has had bad sex for 20yrs doesn't really know how good sex can be, so her evaluation may be unbiased but it certainly isn't informed.:dunno:
WHile I would say the Dillon is superior to the LNL, based on my exp, others may only say it's a little better. After all, they both deliver cases to the press. One just does it w/ less jambs & is quieter, so my opinion, it's better, but those issues may not matter much to others. Alos as Steve notes, the delivery system is more secure, so less chance of a jamb.:dunno:

Palouse
09-16-2011, 22:13
Brian's website says to go with the 550 no matter what if you are new to reloading/

:dunno:

This is the advice I was given there, and I went with the 550. I wish I'd gone with the 650, mostly because of the extra station. I find that I shoot more now that I reload, and I'd like to have the higher output, too.

Boxerglocker
09-16-2011, 22:17
This is the advice I was given there, and I went with the 550. I wish I'd gone with the 650, mostly because of the extra station. I find that I shoot more now that I reload, and I'd like to have the higher output, too.

Just out of curiosity... how many rounds a month in what calibers are you shooting?

Palouse
09-16-2011, 22:36
Just out of curiosity... how many rounds a month in what calibers are you shooting?

I initially was shooting about 300-500 rounds a month, and it's anywhere from twice to three times that now...and that'll slow down drastically once snow is on the ground. It's nothing the 550 can't handle, I'd just like it to go faster, and as I said, it's that extra station that really makes me wish I'd gone with the 650. I'm shooting 9mm.

Boxerglocker
09-16-2011, 23:22
I initially was shooting about 300-500 rounds a month, and it's anywhere from twice to three times that now...and that'll slow down drastically once snow is on the ground. It's nothing the 550 can't handle, I'd just like it to go faster, and as I said, it's that extra station that really makes me wish I'd gone with the 650. I'm shooting 9mm.

OK 1000-1200 a month, so 2 to 3 hours behind the press.

norton
09-17-2011, 06:21
I initially was shooting about 300-500 rounds a month, and it's anywhere from twice to three times that now...and that'll slow down drastically once snow is on the ground. It's nothing the 550 can't handle, I'd just like it to go faster, and as I said, it's that extra station that really makes me wish I'd gone with the 650. I'm shooting 9mm.



Since I use RCBS dies for seat and crimp I still have one open die station on the 550. I just wish Dillon could figure out an inexpensive and reliable way to convert the 550 to auto index.

PCJim
09-17-2011, 09:10
Since I use RCBS dies for seat and crimp I still have one open die station on the 550. I just wish Dillon could figure out an inexpensive and reliable way to convert the 550 to auto index.

But, then there are those of us who do not want an autoindexing press. I picked up a SBD to give it a go, and will be getting rid of it. Personally, I just don't like the autoindexing feature. Maybe I'm too set in my ways with the 550.

Then again, if I could justify (which I can't) a 650 with all the bells and whistles, I'm sure I wouldn't want to be manually rotating the shellplate.

Javelin
09-17-2011, 09:16
Ok now I want a 650 progressive..... anyone know where to find a decent deal on one? LOL

unclebob
09-17-2011, 09:29
But, then there are those of us who do not want an autoindexing press. I picked up a SBD to give it a go, and will be getting rid of it. Personally, I just don't like the autoindexing feature. Maybe I'm too set in my ways with the 550.

Then again, if I could justify (which I can't) a 650 with all the bells and whistles, I'm sure I wouldn't want to be manually rotating the shellplate.

The older you get the more you like auto indexing. It took me all of one second in not missing manual indexing.

mike g35
09-17-2011, 10:11
Ok now I want a 650 progressive..... anyone know where to find a decent deal on one? LOL
I'm looking myself. If I find a "deal" on one I will let you know. So far I believe I will be buying mine from Dillon. The 650 with everything you will ever need including the parts to switch over to another caliber runs at right under $1300. Thats not to bad considering the quality of what your getting. However thats if you buy all Dillon parts, I am but its actually cheaper if you mix in parts from other companies. I just prefer to have all my equipment come from one manufacturer. that way when I inevitably have a problem I know who to call.

Colorado4Wheel
09-17-2011, 12:09
I'm looking myself. If I find a "deal" on one I will let you know. So far I believe I will be buying mine from Dillon. The 650 with everything you will ever need including the parts to switch over to another caliber runs at right under $1300. Thats not to bad considering the quality of what your getting. However thats if you buy all Dillon parts, I am but its actually cheaper if you mix in parts from other companies. I just prefer to have all my equipment come from one manufacturer. that way when I inevitably have a problem I know who to call.

Buy from Brian Enos. Free shipping. Same great service. Actually. Brian is better. Warranty is not a issue no matter who you buy from.

unclebob
09-17-2011, 12:41
I would get another compete primer magazine assembly. Yes 9mm and 40 both use the same primer size. You set one with the Primer locator tab for 9mm and one for 40. Then it would be just the matter of removing two screw R&R the primer magazines put two screw back in. No adjustments. Then If you ever decide to get say a 45 etc. that uses large primers you just make one for small primers and one for large.
If you get two complete tool heads with powder measures. It should take you once you learn how to do it in about 7 minutes to do a complete conversion.
Once you get your press and have all of your dies setup. Remove the Primer Cam so that you are not feeding primers all the time. When you want a primer you just reach in and pull the Primer Indexing arm to rotate the primer disk to get a primer under the primer seat. This way you can load one round at a time until you understand what is going on. Also you just feed one case at a time.
I would go to Dillonís web site and down load the instruction manual and read it while you are waiting on the press to arrive. Once you get the press follow the directions in the manual on setting up the press.

Palouse
09-17-2011, 13:05
OK 1000-1200 a month, so 2 to 3 hours behind the press.

Not a lot of time, no.

Since I use RCBS dies for seat and crimp I still have one open die station on the 550. I just wish Dillon could figure out an inexpensive and reliable way to convert the 550 to auto index.

I think I'm going to give the RCBS dies a whirl.


:grill:

fredj338
09-17-2011, 19:27
Since I use RCBS dies for seat and crimp I still have one open die station on the 550. I just wish Dillon could figure out an inexpensive and reliable way to convert the 550 to auto index.
They did, it's called a 650.:dunno: Sell the 550 & buy a 650, that is what I did. I still load on a 550 as well, funny, I don't really miss the auto indexing after 5min on the 550. I do miss the case feeder though.

norton
09-18-2011, 13:03
They did, it's called a 650.:dunno: Sell the 550 & buy a 650, that is what I did. I still load on a 550 as well, funny, I don't really miss the auto indexing after 5min on the 550. I do miss the case feeder though.

RCBS figured out a way to upgrade their manual indexing Pro 2000 to automatic, and it costs about $100. I would gladly pay that for the 550 upgrade, since I already have several 550 caliber conversions and extra tool heads and powder measures.

fredj338
09-18-2011, 13:15
RCBS figured out a way to upgrade their manual indexing Pro 2000 to automatic, and it costs about $100. I would gladly pay that for the 550 upgrade, since I already have several 550 caliber conversions and extra tool heads and powder measures.

It could certainly be done, but I doubt it is in Dillon's best interest to get 550 owners to not "upgrade" to a 650 by offering a $100+ auto indexing retro. Drop them a note, they did come up w/ a case feeder for the 550.:dunno: Me, I am quite happy w/ the manual indexing. I don't see the huge advantage over manual & I run both machines. There is little to no speed advantge between the two. Yes, you have to remember to index it, but that is like taking the safety off a 1911. Train that way & it's just not an issue.

jerzeydevil77
09-18-2011, 13:19
I didn't read if anyone else mentioned it yet but check out this place, http://www.brianenos.com/forums great answers about Dillon presses, he even sells them. I bought my xl650 from Brian, very helpful and knowledgeable.

unclebob
09-18-2011, 13:20
RCBS figured out a way to upgrade their manual indexing Pro 2000 to automatic, and it costs about $100. I would gladly pay that for the 550 upgrade, since I already have several 550 caliber conversions and extra tool heads and powder measures.

I also had a lot of caliber conversions. Sold it all except the powder measure and powder dies and bought the 650. If Dillon made the 550 auto indexing and it cost 100.00 then you would be right there with the 650. There is no problem in getting rid of Dillon equipment. Right now my 550 is on its third owner.
Making a 550 auto indexing just does not make any since to me. You then would be taking away from people that for some reason do not like auto indexing. Why?:dunno:

Palouse
09-18-2011, 14:10
I also had a lot of caliber conversions. Sold it all except the powder measure and powder dies and bought the 650. If Dillon made the 550 auto indexing and it cost 100.00 then you would be right there with the 650. There is no problem in getting rid of Dillon equipment. Right now my 550 is on its third owner.
Making a 550 auto indexing just does not make any since to me. You then would be taking away from people that for some reason do not like auto indexing. Why?:dunno:

He's not suggesting that Dillon make the 550 an auto-indexing press. What he wants is an upgrade option for those of us who own 550s and would rather simply pay $100 for an upgrade rather than go through the hassle of selling the 550 to buy a 650.

I'd be surprised if someone w/a lot of caliber conversions for the 550 got enough resale value out of his equipment so that he only had to pay an additional $100 for the same setup in a 650.

Beanie-Bean
09-18-2011, 14:51
I'd be surprised if someone w/a lot of caliber conversions for the 550 got enough resale value out of his equipment so that he only had to pay an additional $100 for the same setup in a 650.

I agree...I think it would be less hassle in the long run to just figure out how to mount the 650 on the same bench as the 550. At least the dies, wrenches, primer pickup tubes, powder measures, and a few other things would be compatible.

It would just be the toolheads and shellplates that would have to remain unique to each press.

unclebob
09-18-2011, 15:43
He's not suggesting that Dillon make the 550 an auto-indexing press. What he wants is an upgrade option for those of us who own 550s and would rather simply pay $100 for an upgrade rather than go through the hassle of selling the 550 to buy a 650.

I'd be surprised if someone w/a lot of caliber conversions for the 550 got enough resale value out of his equipment so that he only had to pay an additional $100 for the same setup in a 650.

So why didnít you buy a 650 in the first place. The only reason I ever owned a 550 was because the 650 was not in production at that time. And you can get at least 80% or more for what you bought the press and everything else.

norton
09-18-2011, 16:06
I'm one of those people who has to work with something to understand it. I made the trip to Scottsdale to Dillon last year, and got to try out the different presses. I like my 550. I just want a minor change. Come on Dillon, anything RCBS can do you can do better.

Colorado4Wheel
09-18-2011, 16:09
So if I can figure out a way to make the 550 auto index for $100 you guys will all buy the kit and I will be rich?

GioaJack
09-18-2011, 16:23
We'll all buy one, then you can see how you make Midway feel when we return 'em all to you.

Oh, do you accept American Express?


Jack

mike g35
09-18-2011, 17:58
Buy from Brian Enos. Free shipping. Same great service. Actually. Brian is better. Warranty is not a issue no matter who you buy from.
Plan to contact Brian tomorrow and get a quote. Not ready to buy yet but I will be in a week or so. Might as well know what the damage is before hand.

PCJim
09-18-2011, 22:03
Plan to contact Brian tomorrow and get a quote. Not ready to buy yet but I will be in a week or so. Might as well know what the investment is before hand.

Corrected it for ya. :cool:

Tpro
09-19-2011, 09:57
Well, unless my hearing is alot better than yours, the LNL feeder is easily twice as loud as the Dillon. When I am at my buddy's house, we can't have a conversation while he is reloading in his 10x10 room, it's that loud. I foprget mine is even on. The Dillon also has a two speed motor, which does help w/ the noise level. Unbiased evaluation really requires a broad range of exp. Like a woman that has had bad sex for 20yrs doesn't really know how good sex can be, so her evaluation may be unbiased but it certainly isn't informed.:dunno:
WHile I would say the Dillon is superior to the LNL, based on my exp, others may only say it's a little better. After all, they both deliver cases to the press. One just does it w/ less jambs & is quieter, so my opinion, it's better, but those issues may not matter much to others. Alos as Steve notes, the delivery system is more secure, so less chance of a jamb.:dunno:

I read this entire thread from start to finish (more than once) and nowhere did I see any reference to the LnL AP but yours. That's why I put in my .02. The OP never mentioned it. Yet you had to get a dinger in. So I replied. I spent most of Friday afternoon with a pissed off customer (bought a Dillon 550 after I tried to sell him something else) because all the internet wizards told him it's what he could handle. He set it up and was struggling. He is a machinist and the machine is backwards for him. He hates manual indexing. Now he understands why I told him a 5 station auto indexing press was worth the extra cash. He is sending the Dillon back today (unless he went home and got back on the internet for more "information") and is getting something else. He'll prolly get a 650, even tho it's still backwards (yes...he loaded about 500 rounds on my LnL AP...all 9mm even) without a mishap, and did the last 275 or so progressive.

My point is that I never told the OP to buy a LnL AP. All I said was don't fall into the trap and buy some stripped down machine and then want to upgrade in 6 months (or a few hours as it was for my customer) and somehow it turns into a Hornady slamfest.

I realize that no matter what I say all the grey beards will poo-poo my opinions, but I now have a new customer and he learned the truth about the internet and the "lemings to the sea" things that go on here.

I guess I won't post my opinons of the bullet and case feeder because everyone already knows they are junk and anyone who uses them have downgraded their ability to reload.

GioaJack
09-19-2011, 09:59
Hey, hey, hey... I have a grey beard... and two LNL's.


Jack

Tpro
09-19-2011, 10:01
Hey, hey, hey... I have a grey beard... and two LNL's.


Jack

Yeah, I knew that. Problem is I actually have more grey in my beard than most:rofl:and I have the LnL:faint:

Palouse
09-19-2011, 11:57
So why didn’t you buy a 650 in the first place.

Internet advice. "You don't need a 650," they said.

And it was worth what I paid for it. :supergrin:

Colorado4Wheel
09-19-2011, 12:01
Some things are needs some things are wants. It's hard to judge. NEED is a pretty high standard in my book.

Palouse
09-19-2011, 12:30
Some things are needs some things are wants. It's hard to judge. NEED is a pretty high standard in my book.


Actually, you're right. Now that I think about it, I feel somewhat silly talking about need on a reloading forum.

Colorado4Wheel
09-19-2011, 12:43
Dude, I want a 1050, you don't see me crying about it any longer. I got over it.

Palouse
09-19-2011, 13:09
Dude, I'm not crying over it, and I moved on some time ago. :tongueout:

Yes, I wish I'd gotten the 650 instead of the 550, but on the overall scale of important things in my life, it's near the bottom, just below getting rid of the green toilet in my bathroom that my wife seems to care a lot about, and I was just joining in on the conversation. I sorta thought the :supergrin: on my post above indicated that, but I guess not.

Nobody likes a whiner, myself included, so I apologize if I sounded like one. :wavey:

ETA: Besides, any failings of my 550 is made up by my Ponsess-Warren shotshell reloader. :hearts:

fredj338
09-19-2011, 13:12
He's not suggesting that Dillon make the 550 an auto-indexing press. What he wants is an upgrade option for those of us who own 550s and would rather simply pay $100 for an upgrade rather than go through the hassle of selling the 550 to buy a 650.

I'd be surprised if someone w/a lot of caliber conversions for the 550 got enough resale value out of his equipment so that he only had to pay an additional $100 for the same setup in a 650.

Well it depends. I bought my first 550 for $260 w/ extra tool heads. So selling it today, I would actually make money on it as they often go for 80-85% of new. So I did sell my first one & bought a 650. Yes I was out some money, but only because I sold it to a friend for what I bought it for.

Colorado4Wheel
09-19-2011, 14:24
Dude, I'm not crying over it, and I moved on some time ago. :tongueout:


I thought you were being sarcastic before. Sorry, Enjoy your green toilet. Jack is hoping to upgrade his to a nice vintage green one. Maybe you can work it out with him.

Palouse
09-19-2011, 15:00
Well it depends. I bought my first 550 for $260 w/ extra tool heads. So selling it today, I would actually make money on it as they often go for 80-85% of new. So I did sell my first one & bought a 650. Yes I was out some money, but only because I sold it to a friend for what I bought it for.

OK, I admit I did do a bit of whining about my 550, but it's a great reloader, and I doubt I'll ever get rid of it. If Dillon came out with an auto-index retrofit for it, I'd buy it if it was under $150, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it...what I really wanted was the extra station. I'm currently reloading bottle-neck stuff on a single stage, which isn't much, and down the road I may buy a 650 for 223, use the 550 for pistol/straight-wall cartridges and use the single stage for my hunting stuff.


I thought you were being sarcastic before. Sorry, Enjoy your green toilet. Jack is hoping to upgrade his to a nice vintage green one. Maybe you can work it out with him.

No, no sarcasm. That's the problem with written communication...easily misunderstood, and I've done it myself. I try to call or visit people at work for that very reason. I'm in here a lot but post very little, and I enjoy reading your posts...great group of guys in here.

I'll PM Jack about the toilet. It comes with a cast iron tub and vanity sink. Same color.

GioaJack
09-19-2011, 15:33
I'll PM Jack about the toilet. It comes with a cast iron tub and vanity sink. Same color.


I don't bathe... the lavender smell attracts bears.


Jack

Palouse
09-19-2011, 15:38
I don't bathe... the lavender smell attracts bears.


Jack

:rofl:

I was waiting for this.

Javelin
09-19-2011, 15:50
Holy crap. I can't get out of the Dillon store for less than $1,800! Maybe you guys are doing something way different... but the 650 sucks when it comes to buying dies and quick change plates. I mean 3 calibers is not all that much. Or are you folks using other carbide dies than Dillon?

IndyGunFreak
09-19-2011, 15:57
Holy crap. I can't get out of the Dillon store for less than $1,800! Maybe you guys are doing something way different... but the 650 sucks when it comes to buying dies and quick change plates. I mean 3 calibers is not all that much. Or are you folks using other carbide dies than Dillon?

Couple of ways to save...

Obviously, don't use Dillon dies. You can get a Lee 4 die set, at a fairly significant saving.

The "Quick Change" stuff, is really not necessary. Get caliber conversions, get get extra toolheads and power dies. Move 1 powder measure between your different calibers. If you REALLY want to save your powder charge, and don't want to have to constantly re-calibrate the powder measure, buy powder bars (I think they run about $15).. they take about 2min to change.

1800, you're doing something really crazy, and that huge price tag isn't only related to you using Dillon dies.

unclebob
09-19-2011, 16:01
Internet advice. "You don't need a 650," they said.

Yep, a lot of people say that because that is what they own. People have different reasons why they buy what they buy. Every personís needs or wants are not the same. When I got tired of loading on my SS press and would go over to my friendís house and load on his Dillon 450. I would sit there while loading and think of how I would make that press better. It was a 650. The 550 was just then coming out. The 650 I guess was still on the drawing board. I waited a couple of years and still no 650 so I bought the 550 because I got tired of keep going to my friendís house and bugging him. I had the 550 with probably 6 to 10 conversion kits. I probably did not need a 650, but it was what I wanted in the first place. Another friend wanted to buy my 550 so it was the perfect opportunity in getting the 650. Sold him the 550 and all of the conversions. Glad I did it and have never looked back.
Even though I have a case feeder there are times when I just load the cases buy hand. I have tried loading on the 550 again. And it bugs the hell out of me because the shell plate does not rotate. Some people can do it going back and forth between presses; Iím just not one of them.

Boxerglocker
09-19-2011, 16:21
Holy crap. I can't get out of the Dillon store for less than $1,800! Maybe you guys are doing something way different... but the 650 sucks when it comes to buying dies and quick change plates. I mean 3 calibers is not all that much. Or are you folks using other carbide dies than Dillon?

XL650 caliber conversions run $75ish which is the brunt of the cost. Depending on the calibers though you may save a few dollars if you use this caliber conversion chart. http://www.nfatoys.com/dillon/

I use my .223 conversion and 9mm funnel for .380 ACP.

fredj338
09-19-2011, 16:28
OK, I admit I did do a bit of whining about my 550, but it's a great reloader, and I doubt I'll ever get rid of it. If Dillon came out with an auto-index retrofit for it, I'd buy it if it was under $150, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it...what I really wanted was the extra station. I'm currently reloading bottle-neck stuff on a single stage, which isn't much, and down the road I may buy a 650 for 223, use the 550 for pistol/straight-wall cartridges and use the single stage for my hunting stuff.
.

You don't need an extra stn for reloading rifle, where I really want a powder check/cop/lockout die. I can see into my handgun cases so the COP on my 650 is a nice backup, but never had one on the 150K+ rds I loaded on the 550. Yes the 650 is a great tool, but nothing wrong w/ the 550 for anyone reloading multiple calibers of less than 500 a pop.:dunno:

Colorado4Wheel
09-19-2011, 17:22
Holy crap. I can't get out of the Dillon store for less than $1,800! Maybe you guys are doing something way different... but the 650 sucks when it comes to buying dies and quick change plates. I mean 3 calibers is not all that much. Or are you folks using other carbide dies than Dillon?


I use Lee dies. I prefer them.

If the cost is too high delete any of the following.

Extra Powder measures for each caliber
Roller Handle
Strong Mounts
Bullet Bins.




Three calibers with no dies should be $1042. That assumes you need two casefeed plates. Add $120 for Lee dies and your at $1162. If you buy any machine other then a Dillon you wouldn't even consider all the "other stuff" they sell. So why when it's a Dillon is it all of a sudden a $1600 purchase. It's only a $1600 purchase if you want it to be.