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Comedian
09-16-2011, 15:44
I don't currently own a 1911. I used to have the following: Springfield TRP, Kimber SIS and an Ed Brown Special Forces Commander. The TRP was the most accurate of the three. It was the most accurate pistol I've ever fired, in fact. It was also the most difficult to field strip and reassemble, by far. The full length guide rod didnt help. Im thinking about getting a 1911 and i want it to be laser accurate and reliable of course. I don't want to get another TRP because it was such a nightmare to get back together. Im appealing to the experts here to offer their suggestions.

nelamvr6
09-16-2011, 16:06
Les Baer guarantees his guns will shoot 3" groups at 50 yards.

But I've heard they're tight as hell out of the box, so if you didn't like you TRP you may not like them.

BTW, I wouldn't base an opinion of the Ed Brown pistols on a commander model, the shorter barrel will more than likely affect accuracy...

glock2740
09-16-2011, 16:11
Les Baer guarantees his guns will shoot 3" groups at 50 yards.

But I've heard they're tight as hell out of the box, so if you didn't like you TRP you may not like them.

BTW, I wouldn't base an opinion of the Ed Brown pistols on a commander model, the shorter barrel will more than likely affect accuracy...
The 3" guarantee is standard. Baer offers a 1.5" @ 50 yard guarantee for an extra $300.

nelamvr6
09-16-2011, 16:12
The 3" guarantee is standard. Baer offers a 1.5" @ 50 yard guarantee for an extra $300.

What are the limitations? Are you restricted to certain ammo?

glock2740
09-16-2011, 16:13
Wilson and Nighthawk have 1" @ 25 yard guarantees, which is 2" @ 50 yards in theory. Most any semi-custom out there is going to be more accurate than you are capable of shooting, so it's more of an accuracy guarantee, just to say the gun will do it.

skipsan
09-16-2011, 16:20
To the O.P., if the previously owned TRP was a non-railed variant, the reassembly/guide rod problem is easily solved with a retro guide rod/plug for about $20. If it was an Operator with the bull barrel, then I can't comment.

I believe Baer has the best advertised accuracy with their 1.5" pistols. These can be had new for less than $2k, and less than that slightly used.
Yeah, they're tight, but not unmanageable, and once the novelty of the tightness is gotten used-to, it's not an issue at all.

Jim Watson
09-16-2011, 16:22
What are the limitations? Are you restricted to certain ammo?

As I understand it, it is not a guarantee that the gun WILL shoot 3" or 1.5" groups, it is a guarantee that it DID shoot the specified group with their ammo in their Ransom Rest on their range. No promises that you can duplicate it.

GeorgiaRedfish
09-16-2011, 16:22
Unless you have a ransom rest for a hand it will be a non issue, they are all more accurate than you will be able to shoot.

glock2740
09-16-2011, 16:26
What are the limitations? Are you restricted to certain ammo?
Baer shoots 10 rounds from a Ransom Rest to get the group. I've read what kind of ammo they use, but can't remember offhand. Like I said earlier, it's just that the gun has the ability, with at least some kind of ammo, to be able to shoot a 1.5" group @ 50 yards. Alot of guns from a Ransom Rest are capable of amazing accuracy, especially with a load that that particular gun likes.

glock2740
09-16-2011, 16:27
As I understand it, it is not a guarantee that the gun WILL shoot 3" or 1.5" groups, it is a guarantee that it DID shoot the specified group with their ammo in their Ransom Rest on their range. No promises that you can duplicate it.
Ditto.
Unless you have a ransom rest for a hand it will be a non issue, they are all more accurate than you will be able to shoot.
And ditto.

Comedian
09-16-2011, 16:29
To the O.P., if the previously owned TRP was a non-railed variant, the reassembly/guide rod problem is easily solved with a retro guide rod/plug for about $20. If it was an Operator with the bull barrel, then I can't comment.

I believe Baer has the best advertised accuracy with their 1.5" pistols. These can be had new for less than $2k, and less than that slightly used.
Yeah, they're tight, but not unmanageable, and once the novelty of the tightness is gotten used-to, it's not an issue at all.

It was the non railed TRP. The guide rod spring was very strong also. Much harder to compress, than the spring in the Kimber.

Comedian
09-16-2011, 16:30
Unless you have a ransom rest for a hand it will be a non issue, they are all more accurate than you will be able to shoot.

I was able to shoot the TRP more accurately than the Kimber and Brown.

glock2740
09-16-2011, 16:30
It was the non railed TRP. The guide rod spring was very strong also. Much harder to compress, than the spring in the Kimber.
Thinking of going with a GI guide rod in my TRP as well. Just not a huge fan of the FLGR either.

nelamvr6
09-16-2011, 16:39
Thinking of going with a GI guide rod in my TRP as well. Just not a huge fan of the FLGR either.

So far I haven't had a single issue with the FLGR on my Raptor. Maybe it's the implementation that's the difference?

nelamvr6
09-16-2011, 16:40
I was able to shoot the TRP more accurately than the Kimber and Brown.

Again, the shorter barrel on the commander size Brown no doubt affected the accuracy you were able to achieve.

GeorgiaRedfish
09-16-2011, 16:41
Again, the shorter barrel on the commander size Brown no doubt affected the accuracy you were able to achieve.

Could have been many things to affect it, could've been the triggers one might have had more creep than the other, the sights might've been a little off on one, etc.

nelamvr6
09-16-2011, 16:43
Could have been many things to affect it, could've been the triggers one might have had more creep than the other, the sights might've been a little off on one, etc.

All true.

But what I was getting at is that to make a fair comparison of the accuracy of the several semi-custom builders one should compare same-size pistols when possible.

GeorgiaRedfish
09-16-2011, 16:48
True nuff

skipsan
09-16-2011, 17:02
It was the non railed TRP. The guide rod spring was very strong also. Much harder to compress, than the spring in the Kimber.

The issue I had with my TRP was the sharp edges on the factory spring plug made compressing the plug/spring during reassembly a blood-letting experience. Conversion to the g.i. system (flat-faced plug) changed all that.
The SA Owners Manual states that all full-size SAs have 16 lb recoil springs, and I have no reason to doubt that statement.

Regarding Les Baer accuracy, the target supplied with my last Baer was a 3" square of cardboard with five holes in it. The max spread of the holes was less than 1.5". The holes were not clean and I suspect the ammo was some kind of round-nose. The target was unsigned, with no serial number on it tying it to the gun. Whatever. Its primarily for bragging rates--but the Baers are clearly, in my view, the best value of any of the limited production competition.

nelamvr6
09-16-2011, 17:14
The issue I had with my TRP was the sharp edges on the factory spring plug made compressing the plug/spring during reassembly a blood-letting experience. Conversion to the g.i. system (flat-faced plug) changed all that.
The SA Owners Manual states that all full-size SAs have 16 lb recoil springs, and I have no reason to doubt that statement.

Regarding Les Baer accuracy, the target supplied with my last Baer was a 3" square of cardboard with five holes in it. The max spread of the holes was less than 1.5". The holes were not clean and I suspect the ammo was some kind of round-nose. The target was unsigned, with no serial number on it tying it to the gun. Whatever. Its primarily for bragging rates--but the Baers are clearly, in my view, the best value of any of the limited production competition.

TRP owners should get one of these:

http://www.slip2000.com/thumbbuddy.html

nastytrigger
09-16-2011, 17:30
Thinking of going with a GI guide rod in my TRP as well. Just not a huge fan of the FLGR either.

Ditto. My Springer Loaded came with the 2-piece. Hated the need of a tool for basic takedown.


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bac1023
09-16-2011, 17:38
The best guarantee on the market is Les Baer's 1.5" at 50 yards.

RRA had the same guarantee standard on a couple of their models.

glock2740
09-16-2011, 18:03
So far I haven't had a single issue with the FLGR on my Raptor. Maybe it's the implementation that's the difference?
I haven't had any issues with any of my 1911's with FLGR's either, I just prefer the GI set up.

Rinspeed
09-16-2011, 21:58
Here's the test target from Short Cut's Baer UM with 1.5" at 50 yds. Keep in mind even if you had a Ransom rest without a great deal of practice and access to several loads the chances of you being able to duplicate a group around two inches or less at 50 is slim to none. :dunno:





http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Rinspeed/BaerUM.jpg

glock2740
09-16-2011, 22:11
Here's the test target from Short Cut's Baer UM with 1.5" at 50 yds. Keep in mind even if you had a Ransom rest without a great deal of practice and access to several loads the chances of you being able to duplicate a group around two inches or less at 50 is slim to none. :dunno:





http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Rinspeed/BaerUM.jpg
Pretty impressive group. :thumbsup:

bac1023
09-17-2011, 05:09
Pretty impressive group. :thumbsup:

Yeah, that's what my SRP shows as well. :)

glock2740
09-17-2011, 07:17
Yeah, that's what my SRP shows as well. :)
That's why my next Baer will be the SRP. :cool: BTW, with a single sided safety, no FCS and in hardchrome. :thumbsup: Just waitin' on CJ to have another 1.5" sale. :supergrin:

midliferally
09-17-2011, 12:11
Dan Wesson Valor. Maybe not the easiest to field strip, but you did say accuracy, right? Can't remember the dudes name that did the testing but a search might turn it up. Did a pretty extensive test of accuracy of multiple 1911's and the results were very favorable to/for the Valor. Someone on here might remember who it was....

glock2740
09-17-2011, 12:26
Dan Wesson Valor. Maybe not the easiest to field strip, but you did say accuracy, right? Can't remember the dudes name that did the testing but a search might turn it up. Did a pretty extensive test of accuracy of multiple 1911's and the results were very favorable to/for the Valor. Someone on here might remember who it was....
Dave Severns.

glock2740
09-17-2011, 12:29
My 2 DW's aren't semi-customs, but man, they are A-C-C-U-R-A-T-E. :wow:

Especially this joker. 9mm Guardian
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3648.jpg


And CCO in .45ACP
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3594.jpg

CMG
09-17-2011, 16:09
I don't currently own a 1911. I used to have the following: Springfield TRP, Kimber SIS and an Ed Brown Special Forces Commander. The TRP was the most accurate of the three. It was the most accurate pistol I've ever fired, in fact. It was also the most difficult to field strip and reassemble, by far. The full length guide rod didnt help. Im thinking about getting a 1911 and i want it to be laser accurate and reliable of course. I don't want to get another TRP because it was such a nightmare to get back together. Im appealing to the experts here to offer their suggestions.

My Ed Brown shoots better in my hands than my SA Trophy Match, but the Kobra is the only "semi-custom" I own.

If the FLGR was the main source of your difficulty with the TRP, that's an easy fix:

Before:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/SATRPbefore.jpg

After:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/SATRPafter.jpg

Comedian
09-17-2011, 17:28
My 2 DW's aren't semi-customs, but man, they are A-C-C-U-R-A-T-E. :wow:

Especially this joker. 9mm Guardian
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3648.jpg


And CCO in .45ACP
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3594.jpg

Hmm, maybe 9mm.

Comedian
09-17-2011, 17:30
Again, the shorter barrel on the commander size Brown no doubt affected the accuracy you were able to achieve.

True, but the TRP was still more accurate than the Kimber. Both Gov. size pistols. Does the FLGR contribute to better accuracy?

glock2740
09-17-2011, 17:33
Does the FLGR contribute to better accuracy?
Absolutely positively NOT.

bac1023
09-17-2011, 17:38
That's why my next Baer will be the SRP. :cool: BTW, with a single sided safety, no FCS and in hardchrome. :thumbsup: Just waitin' on CJ to have another 1.5" sale. :supergrin:

That will be a killer pistol.

Its my favorite Baer.

glockin-45
09-17-2011, 17:49
My 2 DW's aren't semi-customs, but man, they are A-C-C-U-R-A-T-E. :wow:

Especially this joker. 9mm Guardian
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3648.jpg


And CCO in .45ACP
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3594.jpgNo,Hmm,about it. My DWCCO is the best shooting 1911 (For me)
that i have ever shot. And i've owned an Les Baer p-11,w/1.5 I don't care
what they did in the rest. You have to be able to shoot good with your hands.

Comedian
09-17-2011, 18:03
My 2 DW's aren't semi-customs, but man, they are A-C-C-U-R-A-T-E. :wow:

Especially this joker. 9mm Guardian
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3648.jpg


And CCO in .45ACP
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3594.jpg

Has the the 9mm been reliable?

glock2740
09-17-2011, 21:42
That will be a killer pistol.

Its my favorite Baer.
Yes. It will be. :cool:

Has the the 9mm been reliable?
110%. :thumbsup:

glock2740
09-17-2011, 21:48
My PT1911 Taurus Custom Shop Special will shoot 1 shot 1 hole groups at 100 yards all day long. So, what's all the fuss about? :dunno:

triggerjerk
09-17-2011, 22:03
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236&highlight=thunder+west+shootout

glock2740
09-17-2011, 22:23
Severns never had the balls to dare compare the Guardian...:cool:

bac1023
09-17-2011, 22:52
My PT1911 Taurus Custom Shop Special will shoot 1 shot 1 hole groups at 100 yards all day long. So, what's all the fuss about? :dunno:

:animlol:

midliferally
09-18-2011, 19:50
Dave Severns.

Thanks! That was the one I was referring to. Last years test had similar good results for the Valor as I recall. The guardian may be my next purchase.

carguy2244
09-18-2011, 19:56
My 2 DW's aren't semi-customs, but man, they are A-C-C-U-R-A-T-E. :wow:

Especially this joker. 9mm Guardian
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3648.jpg


And CCO in .45ACP
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3594.jpg

I like your .45 CCO. If you get tired of it, let me know.

glock2740
09-18-2011, 20:04
I like your .45 CCO. If you get tired of it, let me know.
If I ever get tired of it, I'll just CC one of my Glocks. :tongueout:

Retired Squid
09-19-2011, 05:38
The SA Owners Manual states that all full-size SAs have 16 lb recoil springs, and I have no reason to doubt that statement.

Man that's a extreemly light spring for 10mm, but standard for 45ACP. My Colt DE's are standard 20lb and the new DW RZ10 Custom will have 20lb spring. I however run 22lb springs in my Colts because I run rather warm hand loads from my reloading bench for carry or hunting loads.

carguy2244
09-19-2011, 08:40
If I ever get tired of it, I'll just CC one of my Glocks. :tongueout:

Actually I've been carrying my NN the past week. Not certain if that's will be a permanent situation, get a CCO, or go back to carrying my 19.
But your 45 CCO is nice.

glock2740
09-19-2011, 09:30
Actually I've been carrying my NN the past week. Not certain if that's will be a permanent situation, get a CCO, or go back to carrying my 19.
But your 45 CCO is nice.
Thanks. :) Likin' that No Name are ya? :cool:

deadite
09-19-2011, 12:49
Man that's a extremely light spring for 10mm, but standard for 45ACP. My Colt DE's are standard 20lb and the new DW RZ10 Custom will have 20lb spring. I however run 22lb springs in my Colts because I run rather warm hand loads from my reloading bench for carry or hunting loads.

Keith at Dan Wesson says that they use 18.5# springs on their full size 45's.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=209416

Oddly enough, Wolff Springs suggest replacing the stock Delta Elite dual springs with a 23# spring with a new GI guide rod set-up.

deadite

carguy2244
09-19-2011, 15:54
Thanks. :) Likin' that No Name are ya? :cool:

I like it pretty good for sure.

bac1023
09-19-2011, 17:02
I like it pretty good for sure.

Great to hear :thumbsup:

MajorD
09-20-2011, 11:55
my les baer premier II has delivered hand held (one handed bullseye) 25 yard groups under 2 inches. hand held 50 yard groups of between 4-5 inches- my fault not the guns.
rested 50 yard groups run under 2.5 inches- again the gun could do better.

SpringerTGO
09-20-2011, 14:39
I'm not a good enough shot to know what size group my Springfield TGO1 can shoot, but it extremely accurate when I do my part.

RMA
09-21-2011, 05:57
I'm not a good enough shot to know what size group my Springfield TGO1 can shoot, but it extremely accurate when I do my part.
Which # TGO do you own being there are only like 150 or so out there.

bac1023
09-21-2011, 07:48
Which # TGO do you own being there are only like 150 or so out there.

I've got number 44 built in '02, I believe.

Great 1911 :cool:

Glocklvr
09-30-2011, 22:43
The Baer SRP is "guaranteed" to shoot 2 1/2" groups at 50 yds with Federal Hydra Shock or RP Golden Saber ammo. 2 1/2" and 3" groups are fired without the aid of a Ransom Rest. for the 1 1/2" groups a Ransom Rest is included. Test target is provided with the load that was used. For more information give them a call. Very nice folks.

Retired Squid
10-01-2011, 07:18
It all means nothing if shooter is not up to same capability, I bet more then half of the owners of a gun like the ones talked about here are not near that capability. At that point it's just becomes a waste of money for "bragging rights", or a desire of what is percieved as a work of beauty or art.

:tongueout:

PS: I'm 30 plus years past the abilities of my Dan Wessons, and even my cheap Colts for that matter. :wow:

BMF99CamaroSS
10-01-2011, 08:44
My Guardian is probably the most accurate gun I have ever laid my hands on.


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn5/boafanatic17/guardian/IMG_0633.jpg

glock2740
10-01-2011, 16:50
My Guardian is probably the most accurate gun I have ever laid my hands on.


http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn5/boafanatic17/guardian/IMG_0633.jpg
I gotta agree. Mine is one of the most accurate that I shoot. :cool:


http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/IMG_3648.jpg

bac1023
10-01-2011, 21:51
The Baer SRP is "guaranteed" to shoot 2 1/2" groups at 50 yds with Federal Hydra Shock or RP Golden Saber ammo. 2 1/2" and 3" groups are fired without the aid of a Ransom Rest. for the 1 1/2" groups a Ransom Rest is included. Test target is provided with the load that was used. For more information give them a call. Very nice folks.

I love the SRP. :)


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_0004-6.jpg