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justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 16:43
Looking at some chrono data Win brass cci#500 5.2 grains 231 under 165 gr rainier
953.9
983.9
945.3
991.4
955.0
937.8
953.0
956.8
949.0
956.2
I tumbled these after they where loaded. Seems really inconsistent. I don't think I will do that again.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 16:47
I weigh charges with OCD repetitiveness. So it must be from tumbling right?

fredj338
09-16-2011, 16:50
I weigh charges with OCD repetitiveness. So it must be from tumbling right?

Not necessarily. So we will assume 40s&w? Are you using mixed brass & or mixed times loaded? Even brass of the same manuf will vary in internal volumn & ductility (neck tension). Diff manuf will vary more. So having 30-50fps vel spreads isn't that odd, especially w/ reduced power loads, which yours are not, but variations still occur.:dunno:
BTW, I'm not big on tumbling loaded ammo, but that is me.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 17:07
Not necessarily. So we will assume 40s&w? Are you using mixed brass & or mixed times loaded? Even brass of the same manuf will vary in internal volumn & ductility (neck tension). Diff manuf will vary more. So having 30-50fps vel spreads isn't that odd, especially w/ reduced power loads, which yours are not, but variations still occur.:dunno:
BTW, I'm not big on tumbling loaded ammo, but that is me.

.40 s&w yes. All Winchester brass, some have been loaded more than once. I won't be tumbling loaded ones again and will chrono some more this weekend to see if it makes a difference. Plus I switched to Rainier 165 gr hollow points and want to see if the chrono way different. They are really accurate, seems better than their flat nose.

TPK
09-16-2011, 17:09
My understanding is that tumbling (or using a vibratory cleaner) on ammunition runs the risk of the powder (depending on the type) turning into .. powder .. in other words you change the characteristics of the powder. If using say a IMR4350 or other extruded powders .. it could crumble or "powder" into smaller pieces and your may see pressure spiks as a result. I can't see say H110 getting much finer .. but ya never know.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 17:13
My understanding is that tumbling (or using a vibratory cleaner) on ammunition runs the risk of the powder (depending on the type) turning into .. powder .. in other words you change the characteristics of the powder. If using say a IMR4350 or other extruded powders .. it could crumble or "powder" into smaller pieces and your may see pressure spiks as a result. I can't see say H110 getting much finer .. but ya never know.

Ya I think thats what happened.:crying:

nastytrigger
09-16-2011, 17:15
I haven't tumbled loaded ammo before, but I have some really dirty cartridges that need it, or shoot the dirty stuff and buy new.

I don't weigh loaded ammo. Too much variance between them all. I don't even separate casings by make anymore.

IndyGunFreak
09-16-2011, 17:18
My understanding is that tumbling (or using a vibratory cleaner) on ammunition runs the risk of the powder (depending on the type) turning into .. powder .. in other words you change the characteristics of the powder. If using say a IMR4350 or other extruded powders .. it could crumble or "powder" into smaller pieces and your may see pressure spiks as a result. I can't see say H110 getting much finer .. but ya never know.

... Not this again.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 17:20
... Not this again.

What do you mean Indy?

steve4102
09-16-2011, 17:39
There was a guy over at the AR forum that ran some pretty extensive tests on tumbled ammo. He took pictures of the powder before and after through a Microscope. Some of his ammo was tumbled for days, he found no visual signs of deterioration and no difference in performance between tumbled or not.

Boxerglocker
09-16-2011, 17:43
What do you mean Indy?

He means is an old reloaders wives tale. It doesn't happen.... Tumbling reloaded rounds, won't change anything unless of course you do it in a wet tumbler.
I've checked my own rounds prior and after tumbling still have very tight SD's
Like Fred said 30-50 isn't that unusual.... you say you take great care in reloading your rounds, every single one? Depending on the powder during the course of your loading session you can have very slight variances in your powder drop depending on the powder. Talking 4.3 or 3.8 as opposed to a target of 4.0
One thing that red lighted me was your using Rainier bullets. I have never cared for them and prefer X-treme or Berry's. They were alway inconsistent in any caliber I loaded with.

unclebob
09-16-2011, 18:00
Factory loaded rounds are tumbled. Tumbling load rounds 10 to 15 minutes is not going to do anything to the powder. There has been many a test on this. Nothing happens. Load up 20 rounds throw 10 of them in the tumbler and tumble for 30 minutes. On the same day and time chronograph the rounds. You will find that there is no difference. Why is it that when you tumble brass for cleaning that the outside is nice any shine and the inside of the case still looks the same? You put powder in the case and seat a bullet on top the powder it has very little or no run to move around. I think Dillon did a test and lasted for like 3 days with no changes. You do not want to tumble hollow point bullets media gets stuck in the opening. Put to tumble rounds to get the sizing lube off for 15 minutes is not going to do a thing to the powder.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 18:24
He means is an old reloaders wives tale. It doesn't happen.... Tumbling reloaded rounds, won't change anything unless of course you do it in a wet tumbler.
I've checked my own rounds prior and after tumbling still have very tight SD's
Like Fred said 30-50 isn't that unusual.... you say you take great care in reloading your rounds, every single one? Depending on the powder during the course of your loading session you can have very slight variances in your powder drop depending on the powder. Talking 4.3 or 3.8 as opposed to a target of 4.0
One thing that red lighted me was your using Rainier bullets. I have never cared for them and prefer X-treme or Berry's. They were alway inconsistent in any caliber I loaded with.

I'm loading on a 550. so every round no. I did polish the funnel and measure, keep the measure half full the whole time, I tap the measure till it can't settle any more. Then I through 10 charges a few times like if 5 gr goal is 50. I do that a few times. Check a few single throughs. Then I check every once and a while to make sure no powder is building up on the funnel. I think I will try some different bullets next time I order. I'm using 231 and it meters well. I thought 30 to 50 was horrible.:dunno: So it's not from tumbling now I have more problems.

DoctaGlockta
09-16-2011, 18:38
I tumble all my reloads. Also tumble milsurp 223 and 308. No problems. YMMV

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 18:44
Factory loaded rounds are tumbled. Tumbling load rounds 10 to 15 minutes is not going to do anything to the powder. There has been many a test on this. Nothing happens. Load up 20 rounds throw 10 of them in the tumbler and tumble for 30 minutes. On the same day and time chronograph the rounds. You will find that there is no difference. Why is it that when you tumble brass for cleaning that the outside is nice any shine and the inside of the case still looks the same? You put powder in the case and seat a bullet on top the powder it has very little or no run to move around. I think Dillon did a test and lasted for like 3 days with no changes. You do not want to tumble hollow point bullets media gets stuck in the opening. Put to tumble rounds to get the sizing lube off for 15 minutes is not going to do a thing to the powder.

I see a few have tested this. Seems my problem is somewhere else.:dunno:

unclebob
09-16-2011, 18:47
I'm loading on a 550. so every round no. I did polish the funnel and measure, keep the measure half full the whole time, I tap the measure till it can't settle any more. Then I through 10 charges a few times like if 5 gr goal is 50. I do that a few times. Check a few single throughs. Then I check every once and a while to make sure no powder is building up on the funnel. I think I will try some different bullets next time I order. I'm using 231 and it meters well. I thought 30 to 50 was horrible.:dunno: So it's not from tumbling now I have more problems.

How well do they shoot? If they are accurate donít worry about it.

Zombie Steve
09-16-2011, 18:53
You really need to compare the numbers to untumbled loads to be all scientific and stuff or whatever. :whistling:



Wonder how many hours in a tumbler would correlate to riding around in my 4-Runner for several years in an ammo can...

RRTX11
09-16-2011, 18:57
Zombie Steve hit the nail on the head. With same load and components you would need to compare tumbled to untumbled with same environmental factors and analyze that data before you made an assumption.

Are you using flat nosed, round nosed or hollow points?
I have dillon carbide dies. I took apart my seating die to essentially see what makes it work and to clean it. The actual seating plate is universal for seating flat nosed and hollow points, and round nosed. I was loading RN, but when taking it apart, I think it was facing torward the flat nosed. I switched to FMJ soon afterwards and my chrono data started being more consistent variations.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 18:58
You really need to compare the numbers to untumbled loads to be all scientific and stuff or whatever. :whistling:



Wonder how many hours in a tumbler would correlate to riding around in my 4-Runner for several years in an ammo can...

More on this after the weekend when I get my hands on a chrono Steve. Unclebob they are so accurate it's ridiculous. That or the dryfire practice and drilling is really paying off.

unclebob
09-16-2011, 19:01
More on this after the weekend when I get my hands on a chrono Steve. Unclebob they are so accurate it's ridiculous. That or the dryfire practice and drilling is really paying off.

So donít be a dog chasing its tale. If they are accurate the rest does not mean anything. You are punching holes in paper.

CAH21SF
09-16-2011, 19:02
I'm loading on a 550. so every round no. I did polish the funnel and measure, keep the measure half full the whole time, I tap the measure till it can't settle any more. Then I through 10 charges a few times like if 5 gr goal is 50. I do that a few times. Check a few single throughs. Then I check every once and a while to make sure no powder is building up on the funnel. I think I will try some different bullets next time I order. I'm using 231 and it meters well. I thought 30 to 50 was horrible.:dunno: So it's not from tumbling now I have more problems.

I am a newb to reloading and I have a couple of questions. Why are so worried about 30-50 fps? If they are accurate what is wrong? I load for accuracy, which is the point for reloading. I dont have a chrono yet and dont really plan on using for for handgun.
I am aircraft mechanic and most aircraft now have engine monitors which tell the pilot the temps of all cylinders heads and all exhaust gas temps. Todays world he have technology that well tell us more info then imaginable. I have had a few owners come in a worry about a 30-50 degree spread in CHTS. which is not big deal but, 50- 100 is.

I again I'm a newb but it sounds like your over analyzing it.

Please let us know if you figure something out.

wanderinwalker
09-16-2011, 19:24
I am a newb to reloading and I have a couple of questions. Why are so worried about 30-50 fps? If they are accurate what is wrong? I load for accuracy, which is the point for reloading. I dont have a chrono yet and dont really plan on using for for handgun.
I am aircraft mechanic and most aircraft now have engine monitors which tell the pilot the temps of all cylinders heads and all exhaust gas temps. Todays world he have technology that well tell us more info then imaginable. I have had a few owners come in a worry about a 30-50 degree spread in CHTS. which is not big deal but, 50- 100 is.

I again I'm a newb but it sounds like your over analyzing it.

Please let us know if you figure something out.

Yes, he is overanalyzing it. At handgun ranges, 50-fps ES isn't going to be noticeable. And I would consider his findings pretty consistent with what I would expect when using mixed cases (if they're not all from the same lot, they're mixed, even if the same headstamp), loading on a progressive and using what are pretty inexpensive bullets. Win 231 is pretty consistent through a meter at least, but nothing is perfect.

Just for fun, here's the chronograph data I have from last summer on my standard 200-300 yard rifle ammo. I shoot .223 in an AR-15 service rifle, so these are from a 20" barrel. And mind you I dropped every charge from a LEE Perfect Powder measure, without weighing a single one.

25.0 VGT, 69 Nosler, CCI-BR4, Win case
2772
2854
2856
2850
2863
2863
2840
2837

Average 2842
SD 30
Hi 2772
Lo 2863
ES 91

This load will shoot a clean (100) score at 300 yards with room to spare, well under 2-MOA. Don't worry about 50-fps ES from your .40 S&W; it won't matter at 25-yards.

Oh, and I might have fired a few rifle matches with tumbled ammo. Sometimes I will take a batch of cases and just run them through: size, prime, charge and seat a bullet and toss them in the tumbler to clean 'em up. I might have shot well with some of that ammo too... :whistling:

RRTX11
09-16-2011, 19:40
I am a newb to reloading and I have a couple of questions. Why are so worried about 30-50 fps? If they are accurate what is wrong? I load for accuracy, which is the point for reloading. I dont have a chrono yet and dont really plan on using for for handgun.
I am aircraft mechanic and most aircraft now have engine monitors which tell the pilot the temps of all cylinders heads and all exhaust gas temps. Todays world he have technology that well tell us more info then imaginable. I have had a few owners come in a worry about a 30-50 degree spread in CHTS. which is not big deal but, 50- 100 is.

I again I'm a newb but it sounds like your over analyzing it.

Please let us know if you figure something out.

FYI....there is a lot more to reloading than loading for accuracy. SOME reloaders will sacrifice a little accuracy for softness or feel. Everybody has their different reasons for reloading.

30-50 fps can mean a lot when you are shooting competition and power factor comes into play and you are pushing the envelope on meeting minor pf....not a smart thing to do, but people get dq'd for it, even using factory ammo.

Justin- your chrono data makes sense according to Lyman's 49th.
5.2 grains 231 is listed as starting load for 165 gr tmj, plated being slicker are going to give you the extra 30 fps average. If you are looking for more consistency, I would recommend FMJ over plated.

RustyFN
09-16-2011, 19:44
Oh, and I might have fired a few rifle matches with tumbled ammo. Sometimes I will take a batch of cases and just run them through: size, prime, charge and seat a bullet and toss them in the tumbler to clean 'em up. I might have shot well with some of that ammo too... :whistling:

I load all of my 223 ammo on a Dillon 550. I always clean the lube off by tumbling them for 10 minutes or so after they are loaded. Verry accurate and never had a problem.

Colorado4Wheel
09-16-2011, 19:53
I know lots of people who tumble of 10 mins after loading. They get single digit Standard Deviations. It's not the tumbling. Could be some random thing that you don't even know about. Could be you over tumbled them. But you need way more testing to know for sure. Perhaps it's the 231 as well. Titegroup does not have this issue.

Dexters
09-16-2011, 19:59
I am a newb to reloading and I have a couple of questions. Why are so worried about 30-50 fps? If they are accurate what is wrong? I load for accuracy, which is the point for reloading. I dont have a chrono yet and dont really plan on using for for handgun.
I am aircraft mechanic and most aircraft now have engine monitors which tell the pilot the temps of all cylinders heads and all exhaust gas temps. Todays world he have technology that well tell us more info then imaginable. I have had a few owners come in a worry about a 30-50 degree spread in CHTS. which is not big deal but, 50- 100 is.

I again I'm a newb but it sounds like your over analyzing it.

Please let us know if you figure something out.

The real question is: Why are they tumbling loaded ammo?

You clean the brass and then load it. Or are these guys cleaning the brass, then loading it, and then tumbling it again?

Zombie Steve
09-16-2011, 20:10
The real question is: Why are they tumbling loaded ammo?

You clean the brass and then load it. Or are these guys cleaning the brass, then loading it, and then tumbling it again?

We've been over this before. If a woman of loose morals walks into my garage, she's not going to say "Oh, cool. AM radio". She isn't going to be impressed with the antlers over my bench. She won't comment on how organized my data is. She might, however, exclaim "OOOooOOOOOohhhh... shiny!!!!"

Long shot, but I'm not going to risk it. For all we know, this is why Jack has three ex-wives.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 20:13
Sounds like I got nothing to worry about. I've only used 2 powders so far Unique and 231. WST and tightgroup are next on the list. I'm looking for a powder that works for 9mm and .40 at high and low velocity's. Any Ideas?

squirreld
09-16-2011, 20:16
your speeds are fine.
Heres mine from my last load development. I loaded up about 3K of these at this loading last month. Mixed brass. Not tumbled.

5.8 gr unique
1005
1014
982
993
991
996
999
962
985
951


Avg, 988
Std, 19

Zombie Steve
09-16-2011, 20:17
Well, as a general rule, powders that burn slow enough to give you full speed loads (with a margin of error) are going to be pretty dirty on the low end. Faster powders that are clean on the low end are going to be pushing max pressures on the top end. I load very little 9mm and no .40, so I'm sure you'll get some others that can help more.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 20:17
The real question is: Why are they tumbling loaded ammo?

You clean the brass and then load it. Or are these guys cleaning the brass, then loading it, and then tumbling it again?

You got me.I'm guilty! :rofl: I only did it this one time. :whistling:

Colorado4Wheel
09-16-2011, 20:22
The real question is: Why are they tumbling loaded ammo?

You clean the brass and then load it. Or are these guys cleaning the brass, then loading it, and then tumbling it again?

So everyone I know that tumbles loaded ammo uses Dillon's Case Lube. It's oily and needs to be removed. I use Lee Case Lube Mixed with Alcohol. It leaves no residue so it doesn't need to be removed. So I don't tumble after loading. My ammo is not as nice looking but I don't really care.

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 20:28
I just started using lube One Shot is awesome.

Colorado4Wheel
09-16-2011, 20:32
Does it leave any residue/oily feel? Even a minor one?

justinsaneok
09-16-2011, 20:49
Does it leave any residue/oily feel? Even a minor one?

I can't really give you the truth because I know I used to much. I sprayed from every direction. I will try a minimum amount and let you know. I don't think it's bad at all even with soaking them like I did. It's so easy it's worth the effort. I'm not tumbling them after. If feels like you wiped them with a silicone cloth or something. I wouldn't call it oily at all and I over soaked them. It DRIES like they say. There is a residue only because I soaked them.

TPK
09-16-2011, 20:56
Well .. good to know that enough testing has been done that I can (if need be ..) clean up loaded rounds without a worry. Thanks for the info. So .. you can teach an old dog new tricks ..of a sort. lol

I was concerned do it with some old .308 Norma Mag ammo that had been passed along to me it. It had started to oxidize? (turn green) and was quite dirty.

Sonnytoo
09-16-2011, 21:08
I've weighed Starline brass and Rainier 230gr's. The bullets are within one grain; the brass is also extremely consistent.

fredj338
09-16-2011, 21:15
There was a guy over at the AR forum that ran some pretty extensive tests on tumbled ammo. He took pictures of the powder before and after through a Microscope. Some of his ammo was tumbled for days, he found no visual signs of deterioration and no difference in performance between tumbled or not.

Well, one test w/ one powder doesn't prove much. Does tumbling affect ammo, maybe maybe not, it would depend on the powder & it's coating. I would suspect if it did, handgun powders would show a greater vel variation than rifle powders, just because of their faster burn rate. Old wives tale, maybe, maybe not. I do know that mixed brass, either by brand or number of times fired, will show greater vel spreads.
Justin- your chrono data makes sense according to Lyman's 49th.
5.2 grains 231 is listed as starting load for 165 gr tmj, plated being slicker are going to give you the extra 30 fps average. If you are looking for more consistency, I would recommend FMJ over plated.
Talk about an "old wives tale". How are plated bullets slicker than jacketd? Both are copper or gilding metal, both would have a sim coef of friction. No, the plated are softer & usually slightly oversized like a lead bullet & offer slightly MORE pressure for the same powder charge. A "slicker" bullet needs even more powder to atain higher vel. Just look at any data for moly bullets.

fredj338
09-16-2011, 21:22
Sounds like I got nothing to worry about. I've only used 2 powders so far Unique and 231. WST and tightgroup are next on the list. I'm looking for a powder that works for 9mm and .40 at high and low velocity's. Any Ideas?

You are asking for a lot from small volumn high pressure rounds. What works for bunnyfarts @ 20Kpsi doesn't do well @ max pressures of 33K. So most will use two powders for target or max vel loads in any of the handgun rounds. The 38sp & 45acp are about the only ones that can work target to std pressure well w/ one powder as you never even get to 20Kpsi.

RRTX11
09-16-2011, 21:51
Sounds like I got nothing to worry about. I've only used 2 powders so far Unique and 231. WST and tightgroup are next on the list. I'm looking for a powder that works for 9mm and .40 at high and low velocity's. Any Ideas?

Try Bullseye. Fits description for 9mm, .40, good low end powder, not good top end powder.

CAH21SF
09-17-2011, 07:53
Try Bullseye. Fits description for 9mm, .40, good low end powder, not good top end powder.

What to you mean when you talk about a good low/top end powder? Are you refering to high/ low pressures.

Zombie Steve
09-17-2011, 08:06
Low end (of the reloading data) - slow, light target loads, high end = full power.

RRTX11
09-17-2011, 08:38
Low end (of the reloading data) - slow, light target loads, high end = full power.

yes. Bullseye will only get you in the mid 800 fps at max load. Most other powders on the chart will get you above 975 to 1000 fps, for a 165 gr tmj.

meleors
09-17-2011, 10:56
We've been over this before. If a woman of loose morals walks into my garage, she's not going to say "Oh, cool. AM radio". She isn't going to be impressed with the antlers over my bench. She won't comment on how organized my data is. She might, however, exclaim "OOOooOOOOOohhhh... shiny!!!!"

Long shot, but I'm not going to risk it. For all we know, this is why Jack has three ex-wives.

OK, I got the part about woman of loose morals likes shiny.
What I want to really know is how to get a women of loose morals into my garage in the first place!
You think I should ask the wife for help? :whistling:

GioaJack
09-17-2011, 10:58
If you weren't born Italian you're going to have to use hundred dollar bills to attract women.

It's the price you pay for being a lesser man. :whistling:


Jack

unclebob
09-17-2011, 11:19
If you weren't born Italian you're going to have to use hundred dollar bills to attract women.

It's the price you pay for being a lesser man. :whistling:


Jack

So Jack what town in Italy were you born in?

CAH21SF
09-17-2011, 11:21
If you weren't born Italian you're going to have to use hundred dollar bills to attract women.

It's the price you pay for being a lesser man. :whistling:


Jack


Nice, well put!:rofl:

GioaJack
09-17-2011, 11:49
So Jack what town in Italy were you born in?


Us Sicilians look down on mere Italians... you got a problem with that? :miff:

(And from now on you can address me as, The Don.)


Jack

unclebob
09-17-2011, 12:08
Us Sicilians look down on mere Italians... you got a problem with that? :miff:

(And from now on you can address me as, The Don.)


Jack

Thatís because you live so high up there where there is no oxygen. So yes you have to look down on everyone else. The only people higher than you live on the space station.
So unless you were born in Italy you are an American just like the rest of us. You are just from an Italian ancestry.:tongueout:
Sorry Jack just one of my pet peeves.

Zombie Steve
09-17-2011, 13:43
If you weren't born Italian you're going to have to use hundred dollar bills to attract women.

It's the price you pay for being a lesser man. :whistling:


Jack

Man, I'm jealous.

http://www.deonandan.com/uploaded_images/Guidos_1-744866.jpg

http://cdn.complex.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/guido_opener.jpg

http://guestofaguest.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/theguido.jpg

justinsaneok
09-17-2011, 19:47
LMAO Steve, the sprayed rounds where not as SLICK in the gun as unlubed rounds. They have a residue but is not oily. It seems like carbon from the chamber sticks to the outside of the case. Looks like black skid marks on the brass from chambering. Keep in mind I'm sure I over sprayed them.

No chrono action today. Tomorrow I'm shooting a IDPA match and I might be able to use a chrono at the match. It's the same exact load so we will se if there's a difference for sure. I'm going to check 10 tumbled and 10 not tumbled because the weather is 40 degrees different from the last time I chronographed the others.

justinsaneok
09-17-2011, 19:48
LMAO Steve, the sprayed rounds where not as SLICK in the gun as unlubed rounds. They have a residue but is not oily. It seems like carbon from the chamber sticks to the outside of the case. Looks like black skid marks on the brass from chambering. Keep in mind I'm sure I over sprayed them.

No chrono action today. Tomorrow I'm shooting a IDPA match and I might be able to use a chrono at the match. It's the same exact load so we will se if there's a difference for sure. I'm going to check 10 tumbled and 10 not tumbled because the weather is 40 degrees different from the last time I chronographed the others.

justinsaneok
09-17-2011, 19:52
You are asking for a lot from small volumn high pressure rounds. What works for bunnyfarts @ 20Kpsi doesn't do well @ max pressures of 33K. So most will use two powders for target or max vel loads in any of the handgun rounds. The 38sp & 45acp are about the only ones that can work target to std pressure well w/ one powder as you never even get to 20Kpsi.

Thats why I was using unique for hot loads. It shoots good for me but only maxed out. .40 with 7 gr shoots awesome. Just trying new things.

Dexters
09-17-2011, 20:19
So everyone I know that tumbles loaded ammo uses Dillon's Case Lube. It's oily and needs to be removed. I use Lee Case Lube Mixed with Alcohol. It leaves no residue so it doesn't need to be removed. So I don't tumble after loading. My ammo is not as nice looking but I don't really care.

That explains it. I also know that Dillon has great customer service and a lot of people call it.

RustyFN
09-17-2011, 20:25
The real question is: Why are they tumbling loaded ammo?

You clean the brass and then load it. Or are these guys cleaning the brass, then loading it, and then tumbling it again?

We are tumbling loaded ammo to clean the lube off. With a primer in one end and a bullet in the other you don't have to worry about media getting stuck in the flash hole.

CAH21SF
09-18-2011, 00:28
All spray lubes will have some sort of solvent that will evap out. Dillion's lube doesn't need to be removed. I have fired several thousand rounds with no adverse affects. If you keep things clean you will never have an issue. IMO

The only way to make sure is to do your own testing to figure out what works for you.

Boxerglocker
09-18-2011, 00:49
Does it leave any residue/oily feel? Even a minor one?

No residue using HOS if you just use a light fan spray. I lube all my brass with it and rarely tumble post loading anymore.

Dexters
09-18-2011, 06:52
We are tumbling loaded ammo to clean the lube off. With a primer in one end and a bullet in the other you don't have to worry about media getting stuck in the flash hole.

I've never had that problem. I use a strainer to separate the media from the brass and that shakes off any media.

RustyFN
09-18-2011, 09:31
I've never had that problem. I use a strainer to separate the media from the brass and that shakes off any media.

I use a media separator. I would still have a few flash holes with walnut in them when I would tumble them with no primer. I found it was easier to just tumble them after they were loaded. As others have said there has been a lot of independent testing on the different forums that prove tumbling loaded rounds doesn't hurt a thing.

themighty9mm
09-18-2011, 22:04
For those that think tumbling will somehow effect the powder. Stop for a seconed and think. Where did the powder come from? A factory somewhere right? How did that powder get from point A-B A big truck right? From that truck some lowly employee tossed the powder on a shelf and possibly dropped the box. From the store you bought it and tossed it in the car and came home.

2 potentially very long bumping constanly vibrating vehicle rides and potential rough handling later and the powder is fine and safe for use. I guarantee the big rig ride to the store was alot more rough and anything your tumbler is going to do. Tumbling is fine, wont hurt anything

Dexters
09-19-2011, 06:47
I use a media separator. I would still have a few flash holes with walnut in them when I would tumble them with no primer. I found it was easier to just tumble them after they were loaded. As others have said there has been a lot of independent testing on the different forums that prove tumbling loaded rounds doesn't hurt a thing.

I don't think it hurts anything. I just don't think it is a needed step for most people. Unless there is an issue with the lube.

TPK
09-19-2011, 09:57
For those that think tumbling will somehow effect the powder. Stop for a seconed and think. Where did the powder come from? A factory somewhere right? How did that powder get from point A-B A big truck right? From that truck some lowly employee tossed the powder on a shelf and possibly dropped the box. From the store you bought it and tossed it in the car and came home.

2 potentially very long bumping constanly vibrating vehicle rides and potential rough handling later and the powder is fine and safe for use. I guarantee the big rig ride to the store was alot more rough and anything your tumbler is going to do. Tumbling is fine, wont hurt anything

Apples and Oranges. Put some dirty brass in a container with some media and see how long you have to drive around bumpy roads to get it to clean. I don't think you can compare transportation of powder and tumbling (or vibratory) cleaning of loaded rounds.

GioaJack
09-19-2011, 10:03
I would think that transportation would result in settling, (compaction), of the product more than agitation.


Jack

justinsaneok
09-22-2011, 19:57
still no chrono action :crying:

RustyFN
09-22-2011, 20:20
I don't think it hurts anything. I just don't think it is a needed step for most people. Unless there is an issue with the lube.

I agree it's a wasted step for people that don't want to take the lube off. For people that do it's just another alternative to tumbling after sizing and cleaning flasholes.