Your Home's weakest link. [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Your Home's weakest link.


Cavalry Doc
09-20-2011, 21:01
Lets be honest. Locks only keep honest folks out of your stuff.

I've been noticing how weak my exterior doors are. I've kicked through several myself, in a lot of different countries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEUcQkM3TMQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJr8dxA_IJY

Door jamb armor only runs about $100 on Lowes.com (10% discount for Retired Vets and active duty:supergrin:)

Also thinking about this product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO-R8-9ULVg&NR=1

Looks good to me.


I'm pretty CAREFUL. I've been shot at a lot. It takes a lot of preparedness before I consider something paranoia.

So, why not reinforce the wire before the bad guys get in.

This looks pretty cost effective to me.

What do you think?

Maine1
09-20-2011, 22:09
Glass.

Pro 2A
09-21-2011, 00:02
I agree that window glass is likely the weakest link. There is a film you can add to the window that makes them virtually "unbreakable" (the glass might break, but no hole is made, even when hit with a 2x4 fired from an air cannon to simulate hurricane debris). There are several versions on the market- Window Defense, Shatter Safe, Enter Guard, etc.

Cannon test with 2x4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OekkMyu5xbQ
:wow:

As for the floor brace video, I think it depends on the door you have. If you have a cheap wood door or maybe even fiberglass, it might break off the bottom corner of the door? I don't know. Just looks like the physics is wrong (a lot of door above it, with pressure point very low. The other draw back to this is that it's only ewffective if it's in place and it's only in place if you put it there. If you have a lot of in/out traffic, it's not likely to get used much.

The door jam product I like. It's always in place and it is effective. But I wouldn't use a fiberglass door. Go with insulated steel!

If you want excellent home security, combine these products with an ICF constructed home and you'll not only have an amazing fortress, your energy bills will be drastically cut! My dad built these type homes and while helping him with interior finish work on a below freezing day, we were inside with most of the lights on and the temp went UP a few degress just from the lights and us working!

DoctaGlockta
09-21-2011, 06:13
Glass.You are correct. One molatov thru the glass and you are cooked. Fire is the one thing that doesn't get much talk.

Jake514
09-21-2011, 06:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO-R8-9ULVg&NR=1

This type could be weaker if installed over wood vereer or tile floors since the pins are not too long.

Personally, I would prefer to have one with a LONG heavy steel pin that inserts into the concrete (if you have a slab foundation) or into the wood decking if you have a wooden construction.

Dexters
09-21-2011, 07:13
Lock bump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr23tpWX8lM

jellis11
09-21-2011, 07:41
You are correct. One molatov thru the glass and you are cooked. Fire is the one thing that doesn't get much talk.

You can retro fit a single story residential with a sprinkler system for pretty cheap.

PBCounty
09-21-2011, 08:34
The roof is my weakest link. My doors and windows are quite hardened (custom security doors / windows).

I don't recommend the security film. I personally feel that makes a window breaking easier.

Pro 2A
09-21-2011, 08:56
I don't recommend the security film. I personally feel that makes a window breaking easier.

Curious, why do you think it makes it easier? :dunno:
Heck, some of the films can stop bullets! How is that easier to break than unprotected glass?

As for fire... again I say ICF (with a mason exterior and non-flamable roof). Look on this page: http://www.hoviscustombuilders.com/default2.asp?active_page_id=898
If you scroll down, you'll see how ICF homes are the only ones still standing after wild fires and hurricanes level a neighborhood. :wow:

PBCounty
09-21-2011, 09:08
Typically, the examples given of the glass turning into Superman with a little bit of film are of very thick glass with heavy duty frames anyway....and with the film applied under the frame. Applied like that, the film works wonders. With the average, existing residential window it doesn't roll like that. The glass is thin, the frames are weak and film isn't under the frame. The film only serves to allow the broken glass to be quietly tapped out of a frame where it remains in one nice piece....or just rolled out enough to reach a lock.

sebecman
09-21-2011, 10:02
If someone wants to get in your house they will - no matter what you do.

There have been cases here where homeowners with alarms on doors and windows go on vacation and return to find that theives have used power saws to cut their way thru the exterior walls and gain entry.

The point of door stops and glass treatments/bars should be to slow them down enough that if you are home you have time to arm yourself and repell them if needed.

We have a few tricks in place to slow intruders entry and also a few nasty surprises for anyone that does get in....

That said your best defense is a good offense. Dogs are good. Also placing NRA and gun themed stickers on your vehicles...I have a long driveway, at the end of it are 3 signs, "no tresspassing" "beware of dog" and a homemade one that says "my german shepard can run faster than you." I have thought about getting the one that says "if you can read this you are in range" but honestly don't think I need it.

:supergrin:

Cavalry Doc
09-21-2011, 10:23
Lock bump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr23tpWX8lM

Getting bump proof locks :supergrin:

Cavalry Doc
09-21-2011, 10:27
If someone wants to get in your house they will - no matter what you do.

There have been cases here where homeowners with alarms on doors and windows go on vacation and return to find that theives have used power saws to cut their way thru the exterior walls and gain entry.

The point of door stops and glass treatments/bars should be to slow them down enough that if you are home you have time to arm yourself and repell them if needed.

We have a few tricks in place to slow intruders entry and also a few nasty surprises for anyone that does get in....

That said your best defense is a good offense. Dogs are good. Also placing NRA and gun themed stickers on your vehicles...I have a long driveway, at the end of it are 3 signs, "no tresspassing" "beware of dog" and a homemade one that says "my german shepard can run faster than you." I have thought about getting the one that says "if you can read this you are in range" but honestly don't think I need it.

:supergrin:


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/dogsnguns.jpg



Thought about this sign, but don't want to advertise that I have guns.

DoctaGlockta
09-21-2011, 11:19
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/dogsnguns.jpg



Thought about this sign, but don't want to advertise that I have guns.

This. Also don't want 'I own guns' stickers all over my vehicles either. Just asking for someone to take a peek in the trunk or glove box. Poor OPSEC IMO.

sebecman
09-21-2011, 11:27
This. Also don't want 'I own guns' stickers all over my vehicles either. Just asking for someone to take a peek in the trunk or glove box. Poor OPSEC IMO.

OPSEC depends on your locale.....here in Maine it ain't a big deal.

Many of us still have gun racks in the rear windows of our trucks for our hunting rifles/shotguns.

Up here you are more likely to get shot/robbed over an NFL/MLB sticker on your truck (if it's anything but Pats or Red Sox) then an NRA one!

kirgi08
09-21-2011, 11:41
Vehicles.'08.

DoctaGlockta
09-21-2011, 13:49
Vehicles.'08.
Tagged.

DoctaGlockta
09-21-2011, 13:53
OPSEC depends on your locale.....here in Maine it ain't a big deal.

Many of us still have gun racks in the rear windows of our trucks for our hunting rifles/shotguns.

Up here you are more likely to get shot/robbed over an NFL/MLB sticker on your truck (if it's anything but Pats or Red Sox) then an NRA one!

Do that here and expect to get a lot of attention from the local law enforcement. I should move.

kirgi08
09-21-2011, 14:02
Correctness.'08. :dunno:

DoctaGlockta
09-21-2011, 14:14
Correctness.'08. :dunno:

From the guy who has replaced 'the' in the written word with 'ta' :dunno:

Bilbo Bagins
09-21-2011, 14:19
Typically, the examples given of the glass turning into Superman with a little bit of film are of very thick glass with heavy duty frames anyway....and with the film applied under the frame. Applied like that, the film works wonders. With the average, existing residential window it doesn't roll like that. The glass is thin, the frames are weak and film isn't under the frame. The film only serves to allow the broken glass to be quietly tapped out of a frame where it remains in one nice piece....or just rolled out enough to reach a lock.

+1

the film makes it quieter to break so your neighbors will not hear and cleaner so the robbers will not have to worry about getting cut.

That stuff is made to reduce storm damage. it not bullet proof glass.

kirgi08
09-21-2011, 14:43
From the guy who has replaced 'the' in the written word with 'ta' :dunno:

We live in North Cackalacki,it's easier ta flow than buck.I on occasion will speak the queens english.Normally while I'm sipping single malt from the 1930s.'08. :wavey:

Pro 2A
09-21-2011, 17:49
If someone is going to try to come in through a window, how is the average burgler going to do it? They will try to smash the window by hitting it or throwing something through it. The film prevents that.

I was an officer for over 8 years and while I took lots of B&E reports, I never heard of someone "tapping around the edge" to break a window. Once the film is applied, you can't tell by looking that it's there (if it was installed correctly). So why would someone try to tap around the edge?

And there ARE residential windows available that have this within the glass (or that can be special ordered on just about any atyle of window) if you want to go that route.

Like sebecman said, if they want to get in, they will find a way. The idea is the make your home a harder target than your neighbors. Or to slow down the criminal determined to get to YOU so you have time to defend yourself. But if the home is a fortress and someone is trying to get YOU, they will simply wait till you are outside the home.

PBCounty
09-21-2011, 18:20
If someone is going to try to come in through a window, how is the average burgler going to do it? They will try to smash the window by hitting it or throwing something through it. The film prevents that.

I was an officer for over 8 years and while I took lots of B&E reports, I never heard of someone "tapping around the edge" to break a window. Once the film is applied, you can't tell by looking that it's there (if it was installed correctly). So why would someone try to tap around the edge?

And there ARE residential windows available that have this within the glass (or that can be special ordered on just about any atyle of window) if you want to go that route.

Like sebecman said, if they want to get in, they will find a way. The idea is the make your home a harder target than your neighbors. Or to slow down the criminal determined to get to YOU so you have time to defend yourself. But if the home is a fortress and someone is trying to get YOU, they will simply wait till you are outside the home.

I don't know why the average burglar would tap around a window. I know when I had to break into my mom's house (3M film equipped) I first swung a section of 2X4 at a window, shattering it with the first strike...though it remained in frame. Then I remembered the film. After that it just seemed natural to me to tap the glass out around the frame and it worked like a charm. Since then I personally know of two cases where homeowners came home to find a sheet of shattered but bonded glass on the floor of their burglarized home (french doors in both cases if that matters). According to local LEO, this is common.

And you're right about companies making windows bonded with a film. The difference is, the window is made of two glass panes which are thicker than average panes. The "plastic" is then put in between the panes and the panes are cooked under heat and pressure for hours to bond the materials. The new bonded pane is then laid deeply into heavy duty frames. My house is equipped with such windows. The final glass is a half inch thick and frames / locks are of far superior quality.

And you're right, any obstacle can be defeated. That's why in addition to my windows I also added iron bars as a further measure.

Kevin108
09-21-2011, 19:58
I'm a carpenter by trade. Residential construction, save for brick or comparably sturdy exteriors, is a weak base for a secure home. Doors, windows and walls and roofs are all weak points.

Securing valuables inside a quality safe is a better return on investment than trying to harden your doors and windows.

racerford
09-21-2011, 22:44
I'm a carpenter by trade. Residential construction, save for brick or comparably sturdy exteriors, is a weak base for a secure home. Doors, windows and walls and roofs are all weak points.

Securing valuables inside a quality safe is a better return on investment than trying to harden your doors and windows.

I am not worried about my things, I am worried about my family's safety. I have ICF construction, windows and doors are my weakest point. I suppose they could come in through the roof, but it is awful steep. We don't have many ninja's here.

They would have to pass a lot easier and better targets on the way to my house from anywhere. I am more worried about fire's and tornandos, they don't descriminate.

PBCounty
09-21-2011, 23:31
Securing valuables inside a quality safe is a better return on investment than trying to harden your doors and windows.

For valuables I agree....though depending on the number of openings in your home (my small CBS home has few) the cost of hardening your home can be on par with that of a very large, high quality safe. The security of knowing that no one can be inside of your home inside of a second however is quite priceless. I rest easy in knowing that my home cannot be entered without much noise, time and effort.

off road
09-22-2011, 04:27
Fire! I live in the arid southwest. At low altitude we have brushland. At intermediate altitude VERY heavy chaparral or oak woodland (up to 5,000'), and at high altitude dense coniferous to boreal forests (5,000' to 14,000'). The other day, a car caught fire along the freeway (brushland). The fire burned for two days, threatened 150 homes and destroyed one and several out buildings....and this was in a relatively rural area where the average lot size is 5 to 10+ acres.

"One firefighter was transported off the fire for a medical emergency. A second firefighter suffered heat exhaustion. Resources on the fire include 72 fire engines, 5 dozers, 5 water tenders, 5 helicopters, 14 airtankers (including the DC-10) and 22 handcrews. A total of 831 people were assigned to the fire." Total cost was not stated.
http://wildfiretoday.com/2011/09/03/fire-in-southern-californias-cajon-pass-burns-1100-acres/

When this happens in the suburbs, where the houses are close together, well just use your imagination. Add to all this the likelihood of water to fight the fires, being cut off after a major earthquake....

tower59
09-22-2011, 19:46
Most common entry into a home by an invader is through the door. Look into "The Ultimate Lock" which is built like a beast. Sold online and through Lowe's. Awesome lock.

PBCounty
09-22-2011, 22:02
Most common entry into a home by an invader is through the door. Look into "The Ultimate Lock" which is built like a beast. Sold online and through Lowe's. Awesome lock.

That's not a lock:
http://www.prlog.org/10725063-the-ultimate-lock-system.jpg


http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/cbcbd/laughing.gif


That's a lock:

http://www.sigillcasa.it/serramenti/porte-portoncini-blindati/porte-blindate-particolare1.jpg

(My Dundee pic wouldn't work anymore.)

M1A Shooter
09-22-2011, 23:14
my weakest point is the double glass doors in my kitchen leading to the back door. looking to replace it with a stronger sliding glass door. would just go down to a regular door but then i run into matching bricks and such which is a pain.

my 2 german shepherds are my 1 second head start if needed.

racerford
09-22-2011, 23:20
my weakest point is the double glass doors in my kitchen leading to the back door. looking to replace it with a stronger sliding glass door. would just go down to a regular door but then i run into matching bricks and such which is a pain.

my 2 german shepherds are my 1 second head start if needed.

Masters Security Doors shows double French doors.

PBCounty
09-22-2011, 23:25
my weakest point is the double glass doors in my kitchen leading to the back door. looking to replace it with a stronger sliding glass door. would just go down to a regular door but then i run into matching bricks and such which is a pain.

my 2 german shepherds are my 1 second head start if needed.

PGT makes a badass slider for about $1,200 (two span) if they are in your area. The stock locks are BS, but the frames and composite glass are very sturdy, well insulated and nearly sound proof. The locks can be upgraded. They don't advertise their serious stuff on their website (9/16 security glass) so if you find a dealer make sure you tell them what you're looking for.

PBCounty
09-22-2011, 23:25
Masters Security Doors shows double French doors.

Excellent option. About $5,000 for a small double door set with no bars and 7/16 composite glass....but excellent quality. I am a customer.

PBCounty
09-22-2011, 23:35
And BTW, even a cheap ass panel slider can be complimented with a $200.00 expanding gate. They tuck up nice behind the blinds when company is over. For their price, I installed them behind already hardened security doors.

http://www.blockadergates.com/images/sgatesm.jpg

M1A Shooter
09-23-2011, 00:01
i will look into those. Thanks PB and Racer.

my front door is a steel mesh security door with a second deadbolt set like the main steel exterior door. the back door has bugged me since we bought this place. its not a true french door, just a fixed glass piece and a full glass door next to it to look like french doors. its the only piece of glass in my house thats not hardened double pane yet.

after installing a bunch of doors while working apartment maintenance contracts, i will say that the frame and hardware are usually the weak link. ive seen some installers place exterior doors in with as little as 4 drywall screws. no wonder they get kicked in so easily.

PBCounty
09-23-2011, 00:09
after installing a bunch of doors while working apartment maintenance contracts, i will say that the frame and hardware are usually the weak link. ive seen some installers place exterior doors in with as little as 4 drywall screws. no wonder they get kicked in so easily.

Master Security will solve that problem as their doors come packaged with a steel frame around the doors (pre-hung) as well as a steel sleeve which gets inserted into the opening. Their installers are so "dedicated" that they wanted me to cut the CBS block away from my openings and do a rebar / concrete pour around the new door frames. I declined that due to cost.