Next Generation Of Cop Cars Good For 150mph. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ULVER
09-20-2011, 22:17
Some beautiful, fast cars are going to be out there now...

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Vehicles/News/2011/09/19/2012-Police-Vehicles-Reach-150mph-at-Michigan-Tests.aspx

Still, they all pale compared to the legend. :supergrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHvXi_HejnI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYIJpzo2RVY&feature=related

:faint:

collim1
09-20-2011, 22:30
Yeah right, I cant even chase for 5 seconds unless it is violent felony.

All a doper has to do is run long enough to put his joint out and I am already back at the station writing a special report before the smoke has cleared out of his car.

Goldendog Redux
09-20-2011, 23:25
Great. Some twenty-five year old kiddo with a badge running 148 to the verbal domestic.

Foxtrotx1
09-20-2011, 23:39
Yeah right, I cant even chase for 5 seconds unless it is violent felony.

All a doper has to do is run long enough to put his joint out and I am already back at the station writing a special report before the smoke has cleared out of his car.

What county? :whistling:

nitesite10mm
09-20-2011, 23:48
My '09 Charger (I'm told) hits its ignition cutoff at 143.

I've never ever ever been anywhere close to that.

An officer (and friend) in a neighboring town just across the county line chased a motorcyclist thru three counties (including mine) at night on unfamiliar roads at 143-mph.

For speeding.

He's the one who told me about the the Chargers 145-mph ceiling.

I told him I'd piss myself and scream like a seven-year-old girl if I ever tried that for even 30 seconds.

CW Mock
09-21-2011, 00:02
I work out in wide open spaces, and I want and need a fast car. Half of the cars on the road anymore or as fast or faster than my overloaded scow. I have been in enough 110-120MPH pursuits to really, really want a car capable of giving me an edge.

Just because my car can go 154, doesn't mean I will be running it up there all the time. I barely ever broke 120 in my Charger - it had enough juice to run violators down without the 5 mile wind-up my current Ford needs.

The problem is not fast, well balanced cars, it's the training and accountability of the operators.

Kadetklapp
09-21-2011, 06:41
I may or may not have had a 2010 Charger up to 150 flat and still pulling enroute to a shot's fired call at a deputy's residence in the middle of the night on familiar state highway.

AngryBassets
09-21-2011, 07:14
I find it ironic that this thread is directly under the thread about the pursuit where the cop smashed into a minivan and killed a kid.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn192/TacticalFats/Forum/jump.gif

Dukeboy01
09-21-2011, 07:22
We've got at least two other active threads going in CT right now about cops either killing other folks or being killed themselves in vehicle accidents. 150 mph capability is just wasted capacity, if you ask me. If I was the chief, I'd being telling the manufacturers "That's cool. Now how much does it cost me to have a governor put on it that limits the top end to 125?"

IMO, the important performance benchmarks for patrol cars are how fast does it get to 90 from a dead stop (to run down speeders doing 85 in a 70), the acceleration time from 35- 60 (going from regular patrol to running code to a priority dispatch on surface streets), and which one has the shortest stopping distance from 35 mph, 70 mph, and 100 mph. Flat out top speed over 125 or so is worthless in the real world.

Kadetklapp
09-21-2011, 07:36
Around here, pursuits rarely get above 100 mph. If they do, it's on the interstate and the perp gets lots of breathing room, the pursuing officers are just buying enough time to get someone up ahead to put down stop sticks. In rural areas, the speed serves two purposes- initial pursuit of violators especially if you are stopped stationary running traffic on a multi-lane highway (would take you all damn day to catch a violator running 100+ if your squad car was capable only of 125 mph, and by then you would be in the next county over) and for responding to emergency calls like bad wrecks, officers need assistance, shootings, etc. That's what we use speed for around here.

If you want a neutered police car, and you don't want to chase criminals, fine. I could care less. In this litigious society, you're going to get sued if you crash, or you're going to get sued if you let someone get away that later hurts someone.

A6Gator
09-21-2011, 10:12
Still, they all pale compared to the legend. :supergrin:


Around here, we call a car that goes anywhere a rental...:rofl:

Dragoon44
09-21-2011, 10:37
I work out in wide open spaces, and I want and need a fast car. Half of the cars on the road anymore or as fast or faster than my overloaded scow. I have been in enough 110-120MPH pursuits to really, really want a car capable of giving me an edge.

Just because my car can go 154, doesn't mean I will be running it up there all the time. I barely ever broke 120 in my Charger - it had enough juice to run violators down without the 5 mile wind-up my current Ford needs.

The problem is not fast, well balanced cars, it's the training and accountability of the operators.

Stop lying, you know yu want the fast car because the distance between donut shops is so far out where you work.

:tongueout::rofl:

Dukeboy01
09-21-2011, 10:44
If you want a neutered police car, and you don't want to chase criminals, fine. I could care less. In this litigious society, you're going to get sued if you crash, or you're going to get sued if you let someone get away that later hurts someone.

Please provide one example of the bold faced part of your quote happening... ever.

Thank you.

Kadetklapp
09-21-2011, 11:01
Please provide one example of the bold faced part of your quote happening... ever.

Thank you.

Angry much?

Strange coming from someone called Dukeboy...

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/634/634852/dukes-of-hazzard-the-20050719075231275-001.jpg

And no, I doubt there are any examples. Just saying. I guess we should just call off all high-speed driving, resort to driving Vauxhall Astra diesels like the British, and hope for the best.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ooiqCxFab5Y/S8PFM3VXVFI/AAAAAAAAAXs/1Uy9JOf-rfA/s1600/Vauxhall+Astra+(Police)+Exterior.jpg

THE FUTURE OF AMERICAN POLICING!!!1111one

nitesite10mm
09-21-2011, 11:16
I may or may not have had a 2010 Charger up to 150 flat and still pulling enroute to a shot's fired call at a deputy's residence in the middle of the night on familiar state highway.

Gotta say that sounds like a heckuva ride. Whoever really might have done that (not you, of course) probably had some storytellin' afterward!

msu_grad_121
09-21-2011, 11:59
Oh baby! :drool:

While I'd love to have the ability to do 150, anyone from Michigan can attest that the roads get a little dicey in the triple digits. Still, if it handled well, and the driver wasn't a shmuck, I don't see any reason not to have the fastest possible vehicle out there.

lndshark
09-21-2011, 12:38
Oh baby! :drool:

While I'd love to have the ability to do 150, anyone from Michigan can attest that the roads get a little dicey in the triple digits...

That doesn't seem to deter even non-fleeing drivers from running 85-90 on any given expressway!

msu_grad_121
09-21-2011, 13:56
That doesn't seem to deter even non-fleeing drivers from running 85-90 on any given expressway!

Point taken. I admit, I do enjoy seeing some idiot fly by me doing some crazy speed and then disabled on the side of the road 5 miles down where a pothole swallowed their car. :supergrin:

dano1427
09-21-2011, 14:41
Originally Posted by Kadetklapp View Post
If you want a neutered police car, and you don't want to chase criminals, fine. I could care less. In this litigious society, you're going to get sued if you crash, or you're going to get sued if you let someone get away that later hurts someone.

Please provide one example of the bold faced part of your quote happening... ever.

Thank you.

Several years ago, myself and a coworker in another marked car were at a stop light, across from a major tourist hotel. This frantic lady flags us down, and points to a silver Mercedes that just blew out of the hotel's valet area. She's screaming that the Mercedes was her car and some bum jumped in it when she left it running/unattended (for valet service). We both clear our intersection and manage to get directly behind the Merz, as it was stuck in traffic at a red light. The light turns green and we attempt a traffic stop. The Merz takes off. The lady victim saw this as we shut down, and went around the block to take the report, as we have a "No pursuit" policy.

The lady did not understand the no pursuit policy and filed a complaint from my Sgt to Platoon Commander to Capt, to Chief, to the Citizen Complaint Board, to the Mayor, and tried litigation with the City Atty's Office.

It was a headache for a while, but the litigation never went anywhere, neither did any of the complaints. But people can and will try to sue, especially a Gov't agency.

Kegs
09-21-2011, 14:43
There are at least a dozen models of cars and motorcycles on the current market that have top speeds that will leave any of these l.e. vehicles standing still.

Stop wasting money on fast cars and spend it on R&D for teleportation.

boomhower
09-21-2011, 14:59
Please provide one example of the bold faced part of your quote happening... ever.

Thank you.

It's happened in NC. I can't recall the city offhand but the officer pursued a suspected DWI through town and once on the highway he terminated the chase due to the speed and tell offenders driving. A couple miles down the road he did wreck and killed someone. The family of the victims sued the PD. They won but it did go to trial and cost them a ton in legal fees.

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larry_minn
09-21-2011, 15:07
I would hope the dept would consider WHO gets these cars. Also it should be automatic the camera goes on at (say) 100 is broke. A "reason" written up with copy of footage.
I have been over 100mph a half dozen times (off a closed track) all but twice was in squad car. I was not driving the squad but could feel how loose it was. Officer backed off before we got to 115. (BTW the driver is also a lic race car driver) Mainly modified/super stock.

Local city got a new squad. Less then 10k and new Officer tries to pull a 180 and piles it into ditch. "so how fast were you going?" "about 60"

(from my point of view) I do have to agree the 0-60 or 50-90 speeds more useful then able to hit 150mph.

DaBigBR
09-21-2011, 15:12
Around here, pursuits rarely get above 100 mph. If they do, it's on the interstate and the perp gets lots of breathing room, the pursuing officers are just buying enough time to get someone up ahead to put down stop sticks. In rural areas, the speed serves two purposes- initial pursuit of violators especially if you are stopped stationary running traffic on a multi-lane highway (would take you all damn day to catch a violator running 100+ if your squad car was capable only of 125 mph, and by then you would be in the next county over) and for responding to emergency calls like bad wrecks, officers need assistance, shootings, etc. That's what we use speed for around here.

If you want a neutered police car, and you don't want to chase criminals, fine. I could care less. In this litigious society, you're going to get sued if you crash, or you're going to get sued if you let someone get away that later hurts someone.

Please provide one example of the bold faced part of your quote happening... ever.

Thank you.

[I]Several years ago, myself and a coworker in another marked car were at a stop light, across from a major tourist hotel. This frantic lady flags us down, and points to a silver Mercedes that just blew out of the hotel's valet area. She's screaming that the Mercedes was her car and some bum jumped in it when she left it running/unattended (for valet service). We both clear our intersection and manage to get directly behind the Merz, as it was stuck in traffic at a red light. The light turns green and we attempt a traffic stop. The Merz takes off. The lady victim saw this as we shut down, and went around the block to take the report, as we have a "No pursuit" policy.

The lady did not understand the no pursuit policy and filed a complaint from my Sgt to Platoon Commander to Capt, to Chief, to the Citizen Complaint Board, to the Mayor, and tried litigation with the City Atty's Office.

It was a headache for a while, but the litigation never went anywhere, neither did any of the complaints. But people can and will try to sue, especially a Gov't agency.

It's happened in NC. I can't recall the city offhand but the officer pursued a suspected DWI through town and once on the highway he terminated the chase due to the speed and tell offenders driving. A couple miles down the road he did wreck and killed someone. The family of the victims sued the PD. They won but it did go to trial and cost them a ton in legal fees.

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You will never see a successful lawsuit for such a thing (essentially "failure to protect") unless a special relationship is created between the party who is claiming damages and law enforcement. Like it or not, our responsibility is always to society at large, and not to an individual. If my judgment is that society at large is best served by terminating a pursuit, that's it. A special relationship is only established in circumstances where the officer or agency are directly and immediately responsible for a person's safety, such as a prisoner.

Otherwise, such lawsuits really should not go to trial and should be dispsosed of with a motion for summary judgment.

CW Mock
09-21-2011, 16:59
Stop lying, you know yu want the fast car because the distance between donut shops is so far out where you work.

:tongueout::rofl:

I have no idea what you are talking about ...

Dragoon44
09-21-2011, 17:02
I have no idea what you are talking about ...

Transaltion, you just want to get to the donut shop faster.

Just like a trooper no sense of humor.

:rofl::rofl:

msu_grad_121
09-21-2011, 17:19
Transaltion, you just want to get to the donut shop faster.

Just like a trooper no sense of humor.

:rofl::rofl:

If they needed a sense of humor, they would've been issued one. :rofl:

Mayhem like Me
09-21-2011, 18:44
Fact is the 150 mph cruiser is safer catching a 90 mph speeder than the 125 mph cruiser.

Speeder doing 90mph 132 fps....

cruiser doing 120 176 fps

cruiser doing 145 213 fps

The cruiser doing 145 is covering 18% more ground each second than the slower cruiser and 39% more ground than the speeder allowing it to spend less time at triple digit speeds.
Take emotion out of it faster cars allow less time at speed.
fast cars are better at catching violators and are safer doing it.

pulaskipusher
09-21-2011, 19:32
If they needed a sense of humor, they would've been issued one. :rofl:

:rofl:

I have no problem with the top speed and agree depts should be careful who gets them.

I don't care so much about top speed as long as it picks up speed in hurry. When you turn on a violater the faster you can get up to speed the lower top speed you need.

Still, to be able to go 150 :wow:

Bruce M
09-21-2011, 19:38
Is a wreck at 125 with no cage, three point retraint, helmet, etc, that much less deadly that it is at 150 or is it that the wreck at only 125 reduces liability compared to at 150?

Cav
09-21-2011, 20:07
So what you all are saying is the 2013 Dodge Charger w/5.7L and 8 speed auto will really fly. Maybe the 2013 3.5L TT Taurus AWD with its new improvements will hit 150 MPH too.

I would rather have good 0-60 / 0-100 times than top end. I dont do more than 110 MPH in the city often. I dont know county roads well so I go slower on them.

nastytrigger
09-21-2011, 21:17
Fastest I've been in a car, not driving, was 155mph (governor) in a friends AMG Mercedes (I think a SLK55).

Not sure why any car can go over 100... Call me crazy, but all cars should be somehow regulated to cut off at 85mph and also somehow wired to a limiter through school zones.

And I'm a car guy!

Fastest I've been myself was 118ish, on a closed course, in a friends SRT6 Chrysler Crossfire. Also drove a 300C on a drag strip, but I didn't look down at the speedo, nor did they time it. I know I beat a S10 pickup ;)

nikerret
09-21-2011, 21:59
And I'm a car guy!


You're a disgrace. :wavey::whistling:


For LE work, 0-100-0 is the most important straight line speed related test.

ANyone know anything about the Ford Interceptor utility? It looks like we'll be moving to those.

I fear the curve corrector that applies brakes when the computer senses you're losing control.

I hate all these new "safety" features. ABS is great on pavement, horrible on gravel and dirt; dangerous, even.

Give me rear wheel drive, a powerful engine in front with some massive front brakes, and comfortable seats and seating position for LE work, please. Selectable ABS and gearing for fast 0-130 would be nice. I only need six gears, driver selectable wold be a cool option.

As swatbwana said, the faster cars are much safer. 130 for two miles is safer than 100 for a mile plus 110 for a mile plus 120 for two miles plus 100 for a mile.

SAR
09-21-2011, 22:33
Several years ago, myself and a coworker in another marked car were at a stop light, across from a major tourist hotel. This frantic lady flags us down, and points to a silver Mercedes that just blew out of the hotel's valet area. She's screaming that the Mercedes was her car and some bum jumped in it when she left it running/unattended (for valet service). We both clear our intersection and manage to get directly behind the Merz, as it was stuck in traffic at a red light. The light turns green and we attempt a traffic stop. The Merz takes off. The lady victim saw this as we shut down, and went around the block to take the report, as we have a "No pursuit" policy.

The lady did not understand the no pursuit policy and filed a complaint from my Sgt to Platoon Commander to Capt, to Chief, to the Citizen Complaint Board, to the Mayor, and tried litigation with the City Atty's Office.

It was a headache for a while, but the litigation never went anywhere, neither did any of the complaints. But people can and will try to sue, especially a Gov't agency.

I have been in lots of pursuits. I can guarantee the lady would not want her car back after I have run it down. Trust me. :rofl:

nastytrigger
09-21-2011, 22:34
You're a disgrace. :wavey::whistling:

I said call me crazy! ;)

I think speed+cars should only be on a closed track. I went through my speeding-on-public-roads phase. Finally got my first ever ticket (like how I said finally), doing 99mph in a 55mph (I was doing a little over 100mph, but had slowed due to traffic).

Since, I've bought a slower vehicle, a Jeep, that matches my new, slow, defensive driving attitude. Read my Jeep can go 105mph, but I don't dare go over 65mph even.

Since I got rid of all my 'fast cars', I do get to drive friends sports cars when I meet them at street legal drag nights and NASA events.

I nearly bought a Honda S2000 last year, they've come down in price a lot. Just test driving it, I caught myself revving up to the already high redline, heart pumping, and seeing myself and license getting into trouble.

SAR
09-21-2011, 22:36
Fastest I've been in a car, not driving, was 155mph (governor) in a friends AMG Mercedes (I think a SLK55).



My BMW 335i, my Corvette, my CBR1000rr, and my Aprilia RSV 1000 will hit 155mph easy, but I insist on always driving the speed limit.

nikerret
09-21-2011, 23:17
I said call me crazy! ;)
...

Since, I've bought a slower vehicle, a Jeep, that matches my new, slow, defensive driving attitude. Read my Jeep can go 105mph, but I don't dare go over 65mph even.
...

I nearly bought a Honda S2000 last year, they've come down in price a lot. Just test driving it, I caught myself revving up to the already high redline, heart pumping, and seeing myself and license getting into trouble.

CRAZY!

You have to admit, getting to that 65 in less than four seconds is pretty awseome (and legal).

Some cars bring out a lot of that of me. I've never driven a S2000, but I bet they're fun.

Chowser
09-22-2011, 00:04
My BMW 335i, my Corvette, my CBR1000rr, and my Aprilia RSV 1000 will hit 155mph easy, but I insist on always driving the speed limit.

Love my BMW too! Let's have those as Police Cars!!!

Mine is going to be six next year, thinking of getting the 335d.

Anyone know what's happening with the Carbon Motors police car that's getting BMW's diesel engine??

SAR
09-22-2011, 00:16
Love my BMW too! Let's have those as Police Cars!!!

Mine is going to be six next year, thinking of getting the 335d.

Anyone know what's happening with the Carbon Motors police car that's getting BMW's diesel engine??

If you go to Europe, you will see a lot of BMW and Mercedes being used as taxis and police cars. The 335i twin spool turbo would have no trouble taking most cars in a pursuit.

Electrikkoolaid
09-22-2011, 03:43
A police car that goes 150mph is a serious liability.

No PC career-loving desk-jockey will sign off on that.

nastytrigger
09-22-2011, 06:23
Anyone know what's happening with the Carbon Motors police car that's getting BMW's diesel engine??

I hear about Carbon on the news from time to time. It's a local Indiana company so they update on status sometimes on the business report.

According to this article, they're awaiting a government loan...

http://www.pal-item.com/article/20110922/NEWS01/109220326/Disaster-relief-spending-could-put-Carbon-Motors-loan-request-risk?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE

Kadetklapp
09-22-2011, 06:35
A police car that goes 150mph is a serious liability.

No PC career-loving desk-jockey will sign off on that.

Strange, as I know for a fact that they already exist.

Camaro B4C (no longer in production, but even in it's infancy would still run right around 150 mph)

Mustang (ISP uses retail mustangs as part of their "HPV" unit. Since they went to Chargers they are phasing out)

Dodge Charger Hemi (As I've attested, I may or may not have had one at rock-solid 150, and I know of several officers who claim to have buried the needle in them)

Caprice 9C1 (the new Australian one will go 150 mph all day long)

Just a point of thought, the 1995 Caprice 9C1 with V-rated tires from the factory was factory limited at 147 mph. That's three less than 150, obviously. So let's not get all emotional over a number here. Police cars have been going quick for years. Remember the 440 Fury's of the 1970s? The 454 Chevelle police package of the 70's? This is nothing new!

If you want a neutered police car, fine. If the municipality in which I work for wants me in a neutered police car, fine. So long as it's safe, reliable, and utilitarian enough, I don't really care. But don't come crying to me when crime rates jump, people start getting killed, and no one gets held responsible because the mopes are taking off and knowing we can't do anything to them.

SAR
09-22-2011, 07:56
A police car that goes 150mph is a serious liability.

No PC career-loving desk-jockey will sign off on that.

Next thing you'll be saying is that guns that fire real bullets are a liability. :whistling:

DaBigBR
09-22-2011, 08:24
I nearly bought a Honda S2000 last year, they've come down in price a lot. Just test driving it, I caught myself revving up to the already high redline, heart pumping, and seeing myself and license getting into trouble.

Ahh, the S2000...best motorcycle on four wheels.

CAcop
09-22-2011, 12:48
It's not the car that is the problem it is the driver behind the wheel.

Around here a rookie gets 3 days of driver's training in the academy. Then a few hours every couple of years, mostly low speed stuff because that is where most of our wrecks are. Our streets are so small and congested our pursuits rarely get over 50. The fastest I have ever gone was 90 on the freeway. With that little training do you think anyone at our PD can handle a car at 150?

An agency that actually trains it's people on high speed stuff yearly and/or gets into pursuits or code 3 driving on a regular basis that go 100+ might be able to hand out one of these cars to a 23 year old fresh off of FTO.

Of course all it takes is one jackass at 0300 trying to bury the needle to get a policy named after tham.

Agent6-3/8
09-22-2011, 13:27
It's not the car that is the problem it is the driver behind the wheel.

Around here a rookie gets 3 days of driver's training in the academy. Then a few hours every couple of years, mostly low speed stuff because that is where most of our wrecks are. Our streets are so small and congested our pursuits rarely get over 50. The fastest I have ever gone was 90 on the freeway. With that little training do you think anyone at our PD can handle a car at 150?

An agency that actually trains it's people on high speed stuff yearly and/or gets into pursuits or code 3 driving on a regular basis that go 100+ might be able to hand out one of these cars to a 23 year old fresh off of FTO.

Of course all it takes is one jackass at 0300 trying to bury the needle to get a policy named after tham.


This...

My academy EVOC training was a joke at best. Overall, each recruit got minutes behind the wheel. All training focused on low speed manuevering. We didn't have room for high speed stuff if they even wanted us to do it. I guess we hit a wopping top speed of 40mph or 45mph. My first experience with high speeds driving a cruiser was FTO, maybe even once I was cut loose on my own...I can't remember exactly.

Beyond the training levels, is the handling of the cars. A CVPI is down right squirrely at 120+. I can't speak for the charger or others. If these cars handle, then 150mph capability is fine and has its place in LE. If not, then let me out and I'll walk...

nastytrigger
09-22-2011, 13:30
I've only seen a couple Indiana State Police unmarked Shelby GT500 Mustang's. Not sure their top speed.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898f1e-8cb7-1c03.jpg

PROSOUTH
09-22-2011, 15:18
0-100-0 is the most important straight line speed related test.

ABS is great on pavement, horrible on gravel and dirt; dangerous, even.

Give me rear wheel drive, a powerful engine in front with some massive front brakes, and comfortable seats and seating position for LE work, please. Selectable ABS and gearing for fast 0-130 would be nice.

I must agree with nikerret, big brakes are on the top of my list, followed by a good power band up to 130 and maybe 50 more watts on my radio. I'm mostly on rural roads and need power and brakes for that and then I have 30 miles of Interstate to deal with. Given a choice low end power and brakes would be mine. I'd rather be able to stop than to go faster on top end.

CAcop
09-22-2011, 15:53
I must agree with nikerret, big brakes are on the top of my list, followed by a good power band up to 130 and maybe 50 more watts on my radio. I'm mostly on rural roads and need power and brakes for that and then I have 30 miles of Interstate to deal with. Given a choice low end power and brakes would be mine. I'd rather be able to stop than to go faster on top end.

So true.

nikerret
09-22-2011, 15:57
I've only seen a couple Indiana State Police unmarked Shelby GT500 Mustang's. Not sure their top speed.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898f1e-8cb7-1c03.jpg

Those aren't GT500's. Unless, they chaned the hoods and repainted them. They look like regular Mustangs with the big fog light package.

I believe all Mustangs are governed at 155; not fully sure, though.

Kadetklapp
09-22-2011, 17:41
I've only seen a couple Indiana State Police unmarked Shelby GT500 Mustang's. Not sure their top speed.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898f1e-8cb7-1c03.jpg

Not GT500s. Regular retail GT Mustangs with the fog light package (for wig-wags) and most of the troopers issued them paid for the stripes with their own money, often from local graphic shops.

CW Mock
09-23-2011, 08:58
Transaltion, you just want to get to the donut shop faster.

Just like a trooper no sense of humor.

:rofl::rofl:


I fail to see what is so damn amusing SON. :drillsgt:


I tell you what though, when I was in that Dougherty "gang" pursuit last month, I wish I had more car. Chasing anything, be it a felon or a speeder, trying to get anything with a CVPI feels like running with one of your feet stuck in a bucket - you make a hell of a lot of noise, but you really don't get anywhere.

It IS scary to hear how little EVOC training some agencies/academies give. I thought it was a lot more. I think our POST standard here is a minimum of 40 hours. We do more than that, plus TVI/PIT, and several available schools later on. I am scheduled for a pursuit school here soon, and have already been to a "Charger School" and HOPEFULLY I can get my greedy little hands on a Caprice, and go to the school for that too.

I feel reasonably confident I have the training and level of common sense to realize that because my car can do 154MPH, I don't necessarily need it to on every call, and if I HAVE to, I can do it as safely as driving 154MPH allows for.

But with some brand new guy with 3 days of slow course driving instruction under his belt really ought to get a little high speed wheel time before they toss him the keys, from a pure liability standpoint, IMHO.

Dragoon44
09-23-2011, 09:17
I can readily see a trooper, especially one working outside of cities out in the big open spaces having a need for a fast car.

DaBigBR
09-23-2011, 09:34
I think that the biggest problem with the Fords is how loose the steering and suspension is. My current assigned ride is a '10 CVPI and it's the fastest one that I've ever had, which means that it goes 127 MPH. We buy 3.55 rear ends, so all of the previous ones only went 119-121 or so. At anywhere above about 110 the damn thing is just all over the place. The speed sensitive power steering makes it too easy to outsteer the car at speed, too.

It IS scary to hear how little EVOC training some agencies/academies give. I thought it was a lot more. I think our POST standard here is a minimum of 40 hours. We do more than that, plus TVI/PIT, and several available schools later on. I am scheduled for a pursuit school here soon, and have already been to a "Charger School" and HOPEFULLY I can get my greedy little hands on a Caprice, and go to the school for that too.

I think the key is that 40 hours of driving training does not equal 40 hours behind the wheel. When I was in the academy we got something like 40 hours, but we were four to a car with two cars per station during the absolute best ratioed time. So eight guys working the same station means maybe three hours of drive time when you take out classroom instruction, testing, and other such things that count away from the driving. Heck, "pursuit driving" was limited to about five minuntes per officer, or basically two laps around their little cone course, during which time you did not have to use the radar and were not allowed to use the siren. It was basically just "follow the leader."

Kahr_Glockman
09-23-2011, 12:46
I remember the first time I got my CVPI to 125. I had the **** scared out of me by the time it was over with. Since then the fastest was 95 going to a home invasion in progress.

Dukeboy01
09-23-2011, 13:11
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=car+accident+at+100+mph&view=detail&mid=01BFC3D6B471A8DDCC7E01BFC3D6B471A8DDCC7E&first=0&FORM=LKVR23

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=accident+120+mph&view=detail&mid=58318578FFCDDE4D8F6E58318578FFCDDE4D8F6E&first=0&FORM=LKVR13

Watch the videos and then explain to me again why giving rookie police officers with, as others have described and I can personally attest from my time in the police academy, only 40 hours of "pursuit driving" instruction that translated into maybe 4 hours actually spent behind the wheel driving through cone courses at speeds less than 50 mph a front engined RWD vehicle with a top speed of 150 mph is a good idea.

One of my personal cars is a 2002 Camaro SS. I'm a car guy. I've done 150 mph. It's not a joke.

jwhite75
09-23-2011, 13:12
We've got at least two other active threads going in CT right now about cops either killing other folks or being killed themselves in vehicle accidents. 150 mph capability is just wasted capacity, if you ask me. If I was the chief, I'd being telling the manufacturers "That's cool. Now how much does it cost me to have a governor put on it that limits the top end to 125?"

IMO, the important performance benchmarks for patrol cars are how fast does it get to 90 from a dead stop (to run down speeders doing 85 in a 70), the acceleration time from 35- 60 (going from regular patrol to running code to a priority dispatch on surface streets), and which one has the shortest stopping distance from 35 mph, 70 mph, and 100 mph. Flat out top speed over 125 or so is worthless in the real world.

^^^^This makes the most sense especially where me and dukeboy are from, wth very few flat ground roads. The reason they publish this stuff is there are chiefs and cops out there who wanna tell everybody they have the fastest production squad out there. This is America home of the super size and where less isnt more...more is more. :whistling:

1 old 0311
09-23-2011, 13:19
Anyone remember the new Carbon Motor LEO car scheduled for release in 2012? Heard today the Feds used the money PROMISED to Carbon for start up was instead funneled to G.M. No shock there. G.M. is union, Carbon isn't.

DaBigBR
09-23-2011, 13:25
Carbon is never going anywhere. They have indirectly stated that their car is going to be in the $75k. They said that a "fully equipped patrol car" costs about that much and that there car will be priced comparable to a "fully equipped patrol car." That completely disregards the fact that the extra gear installed in a car is moved from car to car and usually lasts several changeovers, coupled with the fact that we sell the cars when we're done with them, which Carbon has stated will be forbidden by contract so that their cars aren't in the civilian population.

Dukeboy01
09-23-2011, 17:01
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Carbon Motors business model is the answer to a question absolutely no one was asking.

use2b6L32
09-24-2011, 00:50
Does going 150 in my Acura TL count?

That 100 mph crash was amazing!

Annihilated!

RetailNinja
09-24-2011, 08:04
My patrol area is around 600 square miles. I'm the only car in that patrol. I like cars with get up and go.

pgg00
09-24-2011, 22:35
I've been in two pursuits recently that we got up to 120mph. We regulary hit that speed going to calls at that speed also in our straight stretches. So far the CVPI has held up.

We recently got a brand new pursuit charger. Less then 3000 miles and it's already in the shop with motor and tranny problems. I guess dodge is still the same... Junk

NEOH212
09-25-2011, 05:20
I wonder how well those Unibody cars are going to hold up after a pit maneuver?

I wonder how well those Unibody, front wheel drive cars are going to hold up after driving over a curb at 30 mph in the middle of a pursuit?

I wonder how well the chinsy front wheel drive suspensions is going to handle the rough roads and pot holes before needing the front end needs rebuilt?

I wonder how the officers are going to fit all their gear, themselves and the bad guy in the tiny little box that poses a the inside of a police cruiser?

Overall, I think the new generation of police cars are a step backwards. I might not be a police officer but I have been a mechanic long enough to know what holds up and what won't and it's my observation that these new vehicles will be in the shop more than they will be on the road. The Crown Vic certainly wasn't perfect and wasn't as fast as these other vehicles, but in the long run, it will be proven that it can run circles around what is replacing it.

V-8 powertrain, body on frame construction, rear wheel drive full size sedan is the only way to go period!

PS: Ford would done well to put the 4.6 4-V in the Vic's.

Cav
09-25-2011, 09:27
Overall, I think the new generation of police cars are a step backwards. I might not be a police officer but I have been a mechanic long enough to know what holds up and what won't and it's my observation that these new vehicles will be in the shop more than they will be on the road. The Crown Vic certainly wasn't perfect and wasn't as fast as these other vehicles, but in the long run, it will be proven that it can run circles around what is replacing it.

V-8 powertrain, body on frame construction, rear wheel drive full size sedan is the only way to go period!

PS: Ford would done well to put the 4.6 4-V in the Vic's.


I agree if Ford used the 4.6L 4v back a few years ago. I have a 2004 Marauder and it is so much better than a CV. I thought it would be neat if Ford took the new 5.0L w/six speed auto and dropped it into the CV. Also upgrade the suspention a little.

As our economy is doing so bad, making the CV would cost very little, and many places would stick with the CV with a simple trans/engin/brakes upgrade. As the body parts are the same all equipment can transfer. Ford would make more money in the long run vs when PD's walk away for Tahoes, Charges, and other cars that are over priced and higher maint.

I bet a 5.0L CV with a 6 speed and some 3.73's would do 150 MPH easy.

ClydeG19
09-25-2011, 10:28
While the capability is certainly nice, I wonder if too many young officers will overuse it. Hell, I was pretty uncomfortable getting up to 100 when I was going to back up a county deputy who had stopped some armed burglary suspects a few miles away and I've got wide open, straight roads. It was kind of laughable that I wasn't thinking about getting shot at, but rather crashing the car.

Remember, they can't outrun Motorola. Just keep them in sight until they bail, run out of gas, crash, or their car dies.

RetailNinja
09-25-2011, 13:27
You have to have someone on the other end of Motorola for Motorola to win.

NEOH212
09-25-2011, 16:54
I agree if Ford used the 4.6L 4v back a few years ago. I have a 2004 Marauder and it is so much better than a CV. I thought it would be neat if Ford took the new 5.0L w/six speed auto and dropped it into the CV. Also upgrade the suspention a little.

As our economy is doing so bad, making the CV would cost very little, and many places would stick with the CV with a simple trans/engin/brakes upgrade. As the body parts are the same all equipment can transfer. Ford would make more money in the long run vs when PD's walk away for Tahoes, Charges, and other cars that are over priced and higher maint.

I bet a 5.0L CV with a 6 speed and some 3.73's would do 150 MPH easy.

:agree:

Kadetklapp
09-26-2011, 06:31
I've been in two pursuits recently that we got up to 120mph. We regulary hit that speed going to calls at that speed also in our straight stretches. So far the CVPI has held up.

We recently got a brand new pursuit charger. Less then 3000 miles and it's already in the shop with motor and tranny problems. I guess dodge is still the same... Junk

Well, that's odd, considering I've been thru three police package Hemi Chargers, and all of them have outlasted the last three CVPIs that department owned, two of which needed total engine replacements before 90k miles. We retired the Vics at less than 100k, and drove our '06 Charger to 170k before retiring that one, and our other two are still on the road.

pgg00
09-27-2011, 08:12
We had the opposite luck with Dodge. Couldn't keep them out of the shop. Seemed like they would go back in after only a few days on the road. The vics we would easily get 150k out of.

CW Mock
09-27-2011, 10:02
I have put in a few miles in both the Ford CVPI and the Dodge Charger Pursuit, which let me come to appreciate some of the things they both had to offer. There are a few things that really stand out in a negative and positive manner for me.

Dodge:

Pros - It's pretty quick, and had good brakes. Sounds nice, especially when you stand on it chasing someone. Because it accelerated better, I rarely ever needed the full 147MPH top end it had on level ground. When I did need the 147, it was really nice to have. It handles like a race car compared to the Ford at almost any speed. The seat was far more comfortable for me than the CVPI - probably because its not overstuffed in the lumbar, and actually CENTERED on the pedals. iPod jack. Gas mileage was a lot better at highway speeds, especially with cruise on.

Cons - Well ... where do I start? The blind spots on mine (2010) were TERRIBLE compared to a CVPI. All of the windows seem tiny, and your seating position at the wheel makes me feel like I am looking out periscopes sometimes. CVPI has a huge advantage in visibility. Not sure on the new Chargers though, I have not seen one here to sit in or test drive. THE TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING SYSTEM/VALVE STEMS. They. Are. Garbage. I went through 3-4 sets in the 6 months I had the car. The issue? They randomly let air out of the *(&*%*%&ing tires! I would stop for a break or at the office to do reports, and come out to find a random flat. Be a new tire every damn time. At the end, I was having to air up a tire 2-3 times a shift! Replacing them never fixed the issue, and it was not just my car. Yay Dodge and your cheap Chinese components. It ate brakes faster, but that was to be expected. The interior felt cheap, and the plastic was soft. It got a lot of scratches and gouges from duty gear I never saw in Ford plastic. You can't check your own tranny fluid - I guess its a nifty way of trying to milk a new tranny out of customers, or at least the ridiculous fees for the "special" dipstick and check at a dealer. Back seat with a cage is tiny. Godawful tiny trunk. Only one key hole in driver's door. Rides WAY too low for highway work - crossing medians is scary. Traction control blows - its a great feeling when the "brain" cuts all power to your drive wheels as you are leaving a median and cars are bearing down on you. Shifter blows - its awkward and super stiff. Have to come to a complete stop before changing into Neutral-Drive/Reverse or it fries the transmission.

Ford:

Pros: It's pretty reliable in regards to the engine and transmission if they are regularly maintained (traffic use on open highway. I hear they get thrashed in city driving pretty quick). Good visibility. Good trunk space. Key entry almost everywhere. Decent interior space in the front and back compared to Dodge. Tires hold air! Check your own fluids! Shift it quickly from P-R-N-D. You can spin the tires a bit to claw out of a median. Better interior than a Dodge.

Cons: Slow as hell. Brakes SUCK, which is only tolerable because the car is slow as hell anyways. Handles like a garbage scow at almost any speed. Seats are FUBAR. CVPI seats are probably responsible for more long term back injury and comp claims than anything else. I don't know how or why Ford was so freaking retarded that in the billion years they made the CVPI, they never got anything as simple as the freaking seat right! Trunk leaks water all over your gear if you lift it up after its rained/washed. They tend to blow up and cook cops. Windshield wipers SUCK. They quit working properly at 80MPH and up on the driver's side - passenger side is great, it wipes water away. Driver, not so much. I guess its a crappy spring holding it down, and it floats up. Ford is also a victim of cheap crap. Mechanically, mine have held up okay. Everything else dies - speedos, gas gauges, tachometers, you name it. The most recurring one I have had is the gas gauge and the gas cap sensor, followed by the TPMS alarm on the newer ones when the tires get cold in winter.

So with that being the tip of the iceburg, maybe you can see why I am hoping to give some other platform a try. Both of these are mediocre cars as is. They could have been better, but I think its largely apathy from the manufacturer that keeps them as is. No experience with Chevrolet police cars, but the Caprice I sat in seems a lot further ahead than these two. If its quick, fast, has a decent seat and windows I can see out of, I'll be pretty happy.

series1811
09-27-2011, 13:44
Every place I ever worked lost more guys to car crashes than shootings.

fastbolt
09-28-2011, 15:13
Great. Some twenty-five year old kiddo with a badge running 148 to the verbal domestic.

:rofl:

That had me seriously chuckling for several seconds.

It also mirrored what I've been saying as the newer cars have become capable of greater speeds. :whistling:

I've often thought we should have kept some of the Diplomats for some of the new younger, aggressive cop drivers until they demonstrated they could behave and use common sense. Maybe even a couple of those phlegmatic Dodge Monaco's with the 318's that seemed to come factory-equipped with pillows stuffed in the carbs. :tongueout:

fastbolt
09-28-2011, 15:19
I remember one of the first in-service classes to which I was sent, taught by one of our association attorneys. He told us that more cops lost their jobs, financial futures and even their freedom while driving through intersections on-duty than under any other circumstances.

It helped to make the point that there were 2 local cops being prosecuted for hitting and killing citizens while speeding through intersections without using due caution and while running outside of both policy and law (and not using common sense).

Intersections and trainees responding to calls used to scare me more than anything else we did when I was a FTO ... :shocked:

Kadetklapp
09-30-2011, 07:27
I have put in a few miles in both the Ford CVPI and the Dodge Charger Pursuit, which let me come to appreciate some of the things they both had to offer. There are a few things that really stand out in a negative and positive manner for me.

Dodge:

Pros - It's pretty quick, and had good brakes. Sounds nice, especially when you stand on it chasing someone. Because it accelerated better, I rarely ever needed the full 147MPH top end it had on level ground. When I did need the 147, it was really nice to have. It handles like a race car compared to the Ford at almost any speed. The seat was far more comfortable for me than the CVPI - probably because its not overstuffed in the lumbar, and actually CENTERED on the pedals. iPod jack. Gas mileage was a lot better at highway speeds, especially with cruise on.

Cons - Well ... where do I start? The blind spots on mine (2010) were TERRIBLE compared to a CVPI. All of the windows seem tiny, and your seating position at the wheel makes me feel like I am looking out periscopes sometimes. CVPI has a huge advantage in visibility. Not sure on the new Chargers though, I have not seen one here to sit in or test drive. THE TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING SYSTEM/VALVE STEMS. They. Are. Garbage. I went through 3-4 sets in the 6 months I had the car. The issue? They randomly let air out of the *(&*%*%&ing tires! I would stop for a break or at the office to do reports, and come out to find a random flat. Be a new tire every damn time. At the end, I was having to air up a tire 2-3 times a shift! Replacing them never fixed the issue, and it was not just my car. Yay Dodge and your cheap Chinese components. It ate brakes faster, but that was to be expected. The interior felt cheap, and the plastic was soft. It got a lot of scratches and gouges from duty gear I never saw in Ford plastic. You can't check your own tranny fluid - I guess its a nifty way of trying to milk a new tranny out of customers, or at least the ridiculous fees for the "special" dipstick and check at a dealer. Back seat with a cage is tiny. Godawful tiny trunk. Only one key hole in driver's door. Rides WAY too low for highway work - crossing medians is scary. Traction control blows - its a great feeling when the "brain" cuts all power to your drive wheels as you are leaving a median and cars are bearing down on you. Shifter blows - its awkward and super stiff. Have to come to a complete stop before changing into Neutral-Drive/Reverse or it fries the transmission.

Ford:

Pros: It's pretty reliable in regards to the engine and transmission if they are regularly maintained (traffic use on open highway. I hear they get thrashed in city driving pretty quick). Good visibility. Good trunk space. Key entry almost everywhere. Decent interior space in the front and back compared to Dodge. Tires hold air! Check your own fluids! Shift it quickly from P-R-N-D. You can spin the tires a bit to claw out of a median. Better interior than a Dodge.

Cons: Slow as hell. Brakes SUCK, which is only tolerable because the car is slow as hell anyways. Handles like a garbage scow at almost any speed. Seats are FUBAR. CVPI seats are probably responsible for more long term back injury and comp claims than anything else. I don't know how or why Ford was so freaking retarded that in the billion years they made the CVPI, they never got anything as simple as the freaking seat right! Trunk leaks water all over your gear if you lift it up after its rained/washed. They tend to blow up and cook cops. Windshield wipers SUCK. They quit working properly at 80MPH and up on the driver's side - passenger side is great, it wipes water away. Driver, not so much. I guess its a crappy spring holding it down, and it floats up. Ford is also a victim of cheap crap. Mechanically, mine have held up okay. Everything else dies - speedos, gas gauges, tachometers, you name it. The most recurring one I have had is the gas gauge and the gas cap sensor, followed by the TPMS alarm on the newer ones when the tires get cold in winter.

So with that being the tip of the iceburg, maybe you can see why I am hoping to give some other platform a try. Both of these are mediocre cars as is. They could have been better, but I think its largely apathy from the manufacturer that keeps them as is. No experience with Chevrolet police cars, but the Caprice I sat in seems a lot further ahead than these two. If its quick, fast, has a decent seat and windows I can see out of, I'll be pretty happy.

Pretty fair write-up. A couple things of note- Unless the speedo is way off, I've seen two or three different Chargers blow by 147 mph in stock configuration.

Our cars do not have TPMS on them, or if they do, we never noticed. We have had three of these and never had any issues with tire pressure monitoring.

A big plus one on the stupid key hole thing. Same as the blind spots (didn't really bother me because I'm short and we had a cage so I was used to not being able to see a damn thing), and the shifter is a stupid design. Takes a LOT of getting used to, and even then, between the Mercedes trans and the traction control, the brains won't let you dump the gas to do a three point turn properly.

Some of the issues, such as the key hole, TPMS, blind spots, etc are just the way of the newer cars. My wife's 05 Pontiac had one key hole, for instance.

For what it is though, I'm impressed with the Charger. It gets around reasonably well in the snow, it handles like it's on rails, it's plenty fast enough, I find the backseat with a cage to be more than enough room for what it's used for, it's purpose-built for acceptance of accessories, and in my experience, they go on and on and on with lots of abuse.

DaBigBR
09-30-2011, 08:34
Our cars do not have TPMS on them, or if they do, we never noticed. We have had three of these and never had any issues with tire pressure monitoring.

TPMS is federally mandated on 2007 and newer vehicles.

Kadetklapp
10-05-2011, 06:28
TPMS is federally mandated on 2007 and newer vehicles.

http://thumbs.myopera.com/sz/colx/drlaunch/albums/37656/o-rly001.jpg

Guess ours hasn't given us problems in our three cars. Although the airbag light in the 06 used to come on at random...