Remington 870 Police shotgun??? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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tonyparson
09-20-2011, 22:50
Okay guys I know nothing about shotguns and a friend of mine has a new in the box Remington 870 Police shotgun, it has rifled night sites and speedfeed stock and forearm. Can you tell me if this is a good home defence gun and what would be a good price to offer on it? He owes me $600 and he said I can have the shotgun and call it even. Thanks for any info on this..

Kaybe
09-20-2011, 23:14
The 870 is a great shotgun. Reliable, sturdy, plenty of accessories to put on it to make it anyway you want. Check out Brownell's or MidwayUSA for all the parts to put on it. Great home defense shotgun, with the proper loads. But I think $ 600 is too much for it. On sale, you can get some 870's for $300 bucks. The night sights and the stocks don't add up to another $300 bucks. The speedfeed stock usually comes standard on most L.E. shotguns. This gun is parkerised, has a 20 inch or 18 inch barrel, black synthetic stocks. Night sights are not that expensive. Just my opinion.

vafish
09-21-2011, 06:09
It's a great home defense gun.

Brand new in the box they are $500.

tonyparson
09-21-2011, 08:50
I was thinking that price was high so I looked on Bud's and they have it listed for $664.00. I always try go compare gun prices with bud's becasue the always seam reasonable on there prices.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540292

Z71bill
09-21-2011, 08:57
IMHO if you want a Remington 870 to use as a HD gun - get the guy to pay you the $600 in cash - then go buy a new Remington 870 express with an 18.5' barrel and 6+1 mag extension for about $350.

Like this one -

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_871/products_id/95077

tonyparson
09-21-2011, 09:02
IMHO if you want a Remington 870 to use as a HD gun - get the guy to pay you the $600 in cash - then go buy a new Remington 870 express with an 18.5' barrel and 6+1 mag extension for about $350.

Like this one -

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_871/products_id/95077

Ya I think thats what i'm going to do. Why would you need rifle sights on a shotgun?:dunno:

method
09-21-2011, 09:33
Ya I think thats what i'm going to do. Why would you need rifle sights on a shotgun?:dunno:

Slugs. They can be done with just a bead too, but I've never heard someone complain that a gun's sights were too good.

oh yeah...try for the gun and $300 cash.

jwhite75
09-21-2011, 09:53
The POlice model is made differently than the express, some stronger parts and is assembled by hand if it is a true 870P. The Express models are made form cheaper parts but still excellent guns ( I have one) The 870 P and the Wingmasters are smoother and better built shotguns overall. Thats why they cost a couple more hundred. If the gun is NIB then it isnt a bad deal really. If hes a good friend then you wil be off your 600 by 50bcks give or take depending where you shop.

vafish
09-21-2011, 12:07
The POlice model is made differently than the express, some stronger parts and is assembled by hand if it is a true 870P. The Express models are made form cheaper parts but still excellent guns ( I have one) The 870 P and the Wingmasters are smoother and better built shotguns overall. Thats why they cost a couple more hundred.....

Aippi will be along shortly to debunk this.

sciolist
09-21-2011, 12:16
I have a rifle sight bbl on my 870 and love it. Much easier to shoot shot with rifle sights than slugs with bead, IMO. Rifle sights do not really slow me down with shot, but greatly improve accuracy with slugs. Would probably go with XS for purely HD gun.

You can always buy the bbl separately.

tonyparson
09-21-2011, 14:07
Like I said I know nothing about shotguns. I always thought you had to have a bird shot barrel and a slug barrel. I didnt know you could shoot both sells out of the same barrel. I really appreciate the info you guys gave me here. I've learned alot.

Buffering
09-21-2011, 14:34
Like I said I know nothing about shotguns. I always thought you had to have a bird shot barrel and a slug barrel. I didnt know you could shoot both sells out of the same barrel. I really appreciate the info you guys gave me here. I've learned alot.

That's nice, Mr. Tonyparson. Now go shoot the ***** out of it and report back with the results.

SCSU74
09-21-2011, 18:27
The POlice model is made differently than the express, some stronger parts and is assembled by hand if it is a true 870P. The Express models are made form cheaper parts but still excellent guns ( I have one) The 870 P and the Wingmasters are smoother and better built shotguns overall. Thats why they cost a couple more hundred. If the gun is NIB then it isnt a bad deal really. If hes a good friend then you wil be off your 600 by 50bcks give or take depending where you shop.

:blondmoment: just no...

Jay S.
09-21-2011, 19:14
Aippi will be along shortly to debunk this.

Yup. I just bought the exact same model the OP was looking at. The only real difference is the tritium rifle sights and the parkerized finish, which is much better IMHO. The other parts are not really any more durable that I can see.

jwhite75
09-21-2011, 20:53
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_870

Excerpt from Wikipedia....

Variants

There are hundreds of variations of the Remington 870. From the original fifteen models offered, Remington currently produces dozens of models for civilian, law enforcement, and military sales. 870 variants can be grouped into:

Wingmaster – Blued (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)) steel with high gloss or satin walnut stocks. Originally the Wingmaster was only chambered for 2 3/4" rounds and came with a fixed modified choke. Newer models offer the RemChoke Interchangeable choke tube system, the 12-guage model chambered in either 2 3/4" or 3". Prior to the introduction of the "Police" model 870, altered Wingmasters were popular among law enforcement.
Police – Blued (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)) or Parkerized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerized) steel with satin walnut, stained hardwood, or synthetic stocks. Action parts are heavy-duty and these models receive extra care and inspections during assembly.
Marine – Nickel plated with synthetic stocks.
Express – Matte black bead-blasted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrasive_blasting) with laminated hardwood or synthetic stocks.
Express Super Magnum – Chambered for 3" 12 gauge shotshells.
XCS - TriNyte coated external metal and nickel plated internals with speedfeed stocks
Ill leave it at this...

Kaybe
09-21-2011, 23:20
A couple of the differences are: Magazine spring of the LE model is held in by a piece of steel. Civilian is plastic. Action parts are the same. Almost all of the internals are interchangeable with another 870 of the same gauge. It was made to be as "drop in" as possible. Finishes, stocks, purposes of the barrels- those are different. The insides are the same. I have been to the 870 armorer's school 4 times. Robots carry the parts to different stations to be cut or whatever needs to be done. The Remington plant is very automated. EACH receiver starts as an eight pound block of steel and is cut down to the receiver shape and size. Not sure of the exact weight. Civilian mag tube has dimples in it to keep it the same mag capacity. LE does not have that. LE has a steel cap like device that keeps the spring in. Thickness of mag tube, receiver and so on are all the same. Each one is tested, proof tested before it leaves the factory. 10 million of them have been made, they are doing something right. The Wingmaster cost more due to extra stock checkering, gloss blue finish and so on- these extra things cost extra money to do. They are not "better" internally. Just my opinion

method
09-21-2011, 23:55
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_870

Excerpt from Wikipedia....

Variants

There are hundreds of variations of the Remington 870. From the original fifteen models offered, Remington currently produces dozens of models for civilian, law enforcement, and military sales. 870 variants can be grouped into:

Wingmaster Blued (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)) steel with high gloss or satin walnut stocks. Originally the Wingmaster was only chambered for 2 3/4" rounds and came with a fixed modified choke. Newer models offer the RemChoke Interchangeable choke tube system, the 12-guage model chambered in either 2 3/4" or 3". Prior to the introduction of the "Police" model 870, altered Wingmasters were popular among law enforcement.
Police Blued (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)) or Parkerized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerized) steel with satin walnut, stained hardwood, or synthetic stocks. Action parts are heavy-duty and these models receive extra care and inspections during assembly.
Marine Nickel plated with synthetic stocks.
Express Matte black bead-blasted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrasive_blasting) with laminated hardwood or synthetic stocks.
Express Super Magnum Chambered for 3" 12 gauge shotshells.
XCS - TriNyte coated external metal and nickel plated internals with speedfeed stocks
Ill leave it at this...

Shoulda just left it alone....and don't cite Wikipedia, that's never a great idea for trying to prove a point. This topic has been well discussed round here.

jwhite75
09-22-2011, 06:28
Well Wikipedia may not be th best source, but I know I have talked to my own friends who are ATF trained Firearms examiners and who have been to the Remington factory itself, plus the armorers course. I may have mis-spoke about the hand assembly, butthe wingmasters and P models are know to have smoother actions. There are some differences in the models, or Remington would make them different. Departments wouldnt buy them either, they would just buy the epxress and be done with it.

I am not saying either is less quality but the P and Wingmasters are built with a little more care and different parts in some aspects.

aippi
09-22-2011, 12:30
Again, again and again. Go to the Remington parts list and find these so called heavier parts. You will not find them as they do not exist. There is only one 870 and all the parts internally are the same except to the two we have listed on this site dozens of times. And the cost difference in those parts is less then $7 to $10 depending on the model. And if you have the Express HD the 18.5 Bead sight barrel that came on that cost $134 and the 18.5" bead sight barrel that comes on the 870 Police cost $101 so there goes most of your conception about these weapons right there.

Since every 870 is the same you should pick the model based on the finish and furniture you want.

CAcop
09-22-2011, 13:02
While we are on the topic of 870P vs. 870E do the 870P shotguns now come with plastic triggerguards like the 870E shotguns?

jwhite75
09-22-2011, 13:40
As you sir aippi are admittedly very knowledgable about the 870 as a whole I take your word for it. All I can go by is what I have been taught and told by others I trust to know what they are talking about. I may be wrong but because I was taught wrong.

As far as ober and over again on this discussion, you can see by my post count that I have not been an extremely active member here except the last few months so this is the first discussion I have been a part of.

I apologize for my misinformation, and I bow to the 870 gods humbly.

aippi
09-22-2011, 13:45
The P does not come with polymer trigger plate assemblies but I wish they did as it is more durable. I heard this rummor and called my Remington LE Rep and he stated they do not know how that got started. However, if anyone did receive one like this you are better off. If is has happened I would think some Department ordered them this way and then did not follow through with the order or they got mixed up somehow. Many of the LE Departments send thier armorers to the LE Certification and these guys come back and tell their boss that the polymer is more durable so I can see a Department special ordering them like this. The other explaination is guys in gun shops switching out parts.......not that this is common but it does happen.

If anyone bought an 870 P factory new and it has the polymer trigger plate assembly they should call Remington and report it.

Andrewsky
09-22-2011, 18:49
I think a reason people might think Polices have plastic trigger plate assemblies is that they have the same profile as the plastic Express ones, but the metal Wingmaster ones have a much different profile.

aippi
09-22-2011, 19:41
Same trigger plate assemblies and same parts, only the housing material is different. One is cast aluminum and one is polymer.

Aceman
09-25-2011, 10:07
Back on point: 600 = TOO MUCH

Take the cash and buy an Express.

Bryan2010x
11-15-2011, 18:50
I was reading this post and wanted to see if the 870 XCS is infact a police/magnum model or on the level of the express or marine line? Thanks for the help.

micdude
11-15-2011, 20:05
Quoted from THR forum:

The Express is Remington's "Budget" 870.
The Police is the Cadillac.

Here's what Remington says about the differences between the Express and the Police:

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns

The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Worth the extra $$$$ in my mind and 600 new is cheeper than you can buy it OTD.

Bryan2010x
11-15-2011, 20:52
Where does the XCS fit in that?

Aceman
11-15-2011, 21:29
Also - the rifle sights are only optimal for hunting deer with slugs at a distance.

for everything else - there are better options. Indoors = bead.

Bryan2010x
11-15-2011, 22:31
I have read the XCS is the same as the marine magnum model, only has the coating instead of the stainless steel.

My question is the XCS the same quality as the police (magnum) model or is it the same as an express/express magnum.

Thank you for your help in figuring this out.

aippi
11-16-2011, 16:04
Never never never fails that someone cuts and paste that years out of date and false marketing mess from the Remington web site. This has been beat to death and most people on these blogs knows how incorrect that mess is by now.

Buffering
11-16-2011, 17:09
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/18/129161241205636600.jpg

fpgeek
11-16-2011, 23:47
I just did a comparables report for State surplus. My cost estimate was $500 each for 870P shotguns with extended mags and rifle sights. Even then I looked at the most costly vendors.

Vigilant
11-17-2011, 09:03
Isn't the Marine Magnum just nickel plated?