Copper Problem [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ColCol
09-23-2011, 16:53
I have a couple of handguns that I seem to be having trouble with getting the copper out. One in particular is the G19. Even after judicious use of a wire brush and Hoppe's #9 or their Bench Rest #9 Copper Solvent solvent, you can still see the copper with a bore light running the length of the rifling.

Is there better products than what I'm using for copper fouling? these are old standbys for years but don't seem to be cutting it anymore.
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voyager4520
09-24-2011, 00:44
I use a phosphor bronze brush with Hoppe's #9. I spin the brush clockwise many times as I slowly work my way down the bore. Then I clean with a solvent soaked patch, run another solvent soaked patch and let it soak for 10 minutes. Repeat until you can't see the copper on the rifling anymore. Once clean and dry I run a Ballistol soaked patch and reassemble the gun. A few days to a week later I'll field strip again and run a few more Ballistol soaked patches through. That seems to finally get the bore clean.

AA#5
09-24-2011, 00:55
After 38 years of shooting & cleaning guns, I've learned something. You'll NEVER get ALL the copper out of a barrel that fires copper jacketed bullets. When you think you've got all the copper residue out, just use a brighter bore light or sunlight at different angles & you'll still see copper residue - or at least copper-colored stain. Any solvent or brush that would get out every trace of copper residue would probably damage the bore.

Why do you think you have to get all of it out?

crsuribe
09-24-2011, 01:15
After 38 years of shooting & cleaning guns, I've learned something. You'll NEVER get ALL the copper out of a barrel that fires copper jacketed bullets. When you think you've got all the copper residue out, just use a brighter bore light or sunlight at different angles & you'll still see copper residue - or at least copper-colored stain. Any solvent or brush that would get out every trace of copper residue would probably damage the bore.

Why do you think you have to get all of it out?

Heck to be honest I seem to notice that all my guns get a bit more consistent with the impacts as the weapon ages and the barrel gets slightly coated in carbon and residue.

Maybe it's just me but my guns have not suffered from being used often without any more cleaning than a couple passes with a bore snake after a long session at the range..

ChrisJn
09-24-2011, 05:29
I have a couple of handguns that I seem to be having trouble with getting the copper out. One in particular is the G19. Even after judicious use of a wire brush and Hoppe's #9 or their Bench Rest #9 Copper Solvent solvent, you can still see the copper with a bore light running the length of the rifling.

Is there better products than what I'm using for copper fouling? these are old standbys for years but don't seem to be cutting it anymore.
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I have had excellent results with this: http://www.sharpshootr.com/wipeout.htm.
One caveat though. It is not safe for varnish , shellac or old oil type finishes. IT WILL REMOVE THEM.

Tom in Arizona
09-24-2011, 06:01
BoreTech Eliminator will do the job and get it all! May take a number of soakings but it does work.

ColCol
09-24-2011, 08:46
After 38 years of shooting & cleaning guns, I've learned something. You'll NEVER get ALL the copper out of a barrel that fires copper jacketed bullets. When you think you've got all the copper residue out, just use a brighter bore light or sunlight at different angles & you'll still see copper residue - or at least copper-colored stain. Any solvent or brush that would get out every trace of copper residue would probably damage the bore.

Why do you think you have to get all of it out?

I had read at CastBoolits forum that you should get all traces of copper fouling out of the bore if you were going to follow with lead bullets. I can't recall the reason(s) but did remember reading about that some while back.

I've never been able to get all traces out of any barrel once shooting copper jacketed bullets and really don't think that's possible. Hoppe's just don't get it anymore. Use to I would see blue/green traces on the patches but not anymore. Maybe they changed the formula or perhaps manufacturers have changed the alloys of the jacketed bullets. At any rate for whatever the reason, I'm not getting the familiar greenish color on patches anymore so, I've ordered a bottle of Sweet's to see if it works better.

Tom in Arizona
09-24-2011, 09:09
The Hoppes really does not cut it for copper that's why I use the BoreTech Eliminator which does get it all out! The reason you want to get the copper all out when switching to lead and back is that the copper fouling in the bore attracts lead fouling and it builds up faster. You can easily end up with different layers of different metal fouling which can be very difficult to remove as each metal requires different methods. I have had to deal with that before and it is really a pain. Usually I just leave a barrel or a gun dedicated to either lead or copper and don't switch.

VN350X10
09-25-2011, 13:02
If you want to get ALL the copper (or lead) out of a barrel, there's really only one way.
Get an Outers "Foul Out" unit. This is a small, electroplater in reverse. It plates the copper (or lead, depends on what solution you use) onto an anode rod centered in the barrel using "O" rings & an electrolyitic solution.The bore is then clean to the moluecular level.
After having one for several years, I will never be without one.

uncle albert

Tom in Arizona
09-25-2011, 13:14
Also have the Foul Out II and it does work, however it is more cumbersome to use as different solution (not compatable with each other) are required for lead and copper. It also failed me on a project where the barrel I was trying to get down to base metal had multiple levels of fouling, copper, lead, and some mystery alloy. But the chemical solutions did not work either.

VN350X10
09-25-2011, 17:35
I've found that between applications of the foul out solution, by cleaning with a patch soaked in lacquer thinner or MEK to remove all traces of any kind of grease, the Foul Out units work much better.
Another downside, Foul Out II solutions don't work well with a first gen Foul Out unit. I'm working to find a commercial solution (has to be one) that is compatible with the earlier unit, as I'm down to about 1/2 gal. of each solution.(I have a 1st gen. that plugs into an outlet, with the fancy LED readout)

uncle albert

ColCol
09-26-2011, 14:42
There's an Outer's Foul Out III but it's not cheap. Some places are more expensive than Midway.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=243419

Tom in Arizona
09-26-2011, 14:45
Nice that the new Plus solutions are backward compatable.

VN350X10
09-26-2011, 18:37
That's kind of funny. The version (old) that I've got retailed for over $400.00 when introduced. I picked it up on clearance at the old Gander Mtn. store in Wilmot WI & it was still over $100.00 !
Nice to see that I can buy their "new" solutions.

uncle albert

cciman
09-26-2011, 18:57
Fixated.

How sterile do you really need that Glock barrel to be??

I could care less if I see some copper tracing inside the barrel. I doubt you can tell the difference between a cleaned barrel and a uncleaned one, without looking inside.

A6Gator
09-26-2011, 19:02
You can try JB bore paste:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1160/Product/J_B_reg__NON_EMBEDDING_BORE_CLEANING_COMPOUND

If the copper isn't impacting accuracy or reliability, I don't think I'd worry about it too much.

ColCol
09-27-2011, 19:38
All in all the Glock doesn't bother me as much as the GP100, which I shoot lead in primarily. I want to get the vast majority of all copper out of the barrel before going to lead...and vice versa. I know I'll never get 100% out but as much as possible...

I have an old jar of JB Compound-never used the paste and it does good cleaning any barrel.

ColCol
09-28-2011, 19:42
Well, I'll have to eat some words. I never thought you could get ALL the copper out until this evening. UPS brought me a bottle of Sweet's 7.62 and some nylon brushes for three different calibers. I tried it out and after two wet and dry patches followed by some CLP, the bore of my 1911 looked like it never was fired. I am impressed.

VN350X10
09-29-2011, 19:10
Sweet's is also good for clearing your sinusis !

ColCol
09-30-2011, 20:50
Sweet's is also good for clearing your sinusis !

And for taking the top of your head off...wheeeeeew My dog's lips curled up and he showed some teeth while being in the same room with me. Reckon I'd better use it when he's not around.

jfrey
09-30-2011, 21:13
CR-10 works great for my copper problems. Isn't quite as stinky as Sweets I don't think. I have a couple of rifles that just won't shoot with any great amount of copper in the barrel. A couple of passes of the CR-10 and problem solved. It should clean your Glock barrel very well.

Hummerbike
10-03-2011, 13:27
I've been told that a fifty fifty mixture of ammonia and hydrogen peroxide will eat the copper out of a barrel.

As long as the barrel is cleaned and oiled afterward there will be no problems.

I actually tried it once and watched it foam up and turn green.

When it stops turning green there is no more copper.

Alot of copper removers use ammonia.

The hydrogen peroxide oxygenates the ammonia speeding up the process.

VN350X10
10-03-2011, 13:33
But you can't rinse that mix out of the barrel FAST enough to prevent rusting, no matter how much you oil it.
The peroxide, being an oxygenating agent, rusts steel as it hits it !
Like using hot water in a muzzle-loader, it rusts before you can get the oil in.


uncle albert

AA#5
10-03-2011, 13:37
I think the "copper" people are referring to is actually a copper stain, rather than actual copper fouling.

VN350X10
10-03-2011, 13:43
If you can see copper, it's definitely fouling. It's possible to be copper fouled without seeing the copper color.

uncle albert