No Country for Old Men, My eyes are getting old. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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tchick
09-25-2011, 20:02
I know a lot of people don't like laser sights but as my eyes get older I'm sold on them. I went shooting today and shot my Glock 19 for the first time with the Crimson Trace laser grips on it. I also shot my Beretta 96D with standard sights. My older eyes have a hard time seeing the sights these days and as a result I can't shoot groups as tight as I used to. I shot the Beretta at 25' rapid fire and shot the Glock at 25 yards rapid fire. My targets speak for themselves. You younger guys may be able to shoot fine without them but for us older guys lasers have their place.

Beretta 96D with iron sights, 25'
http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt141/tchick_bucket/Firearms/2011-09-25_14-36-59_636.jpg

Glock 19 with Crimson Trace laser grips, 25 yards
http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt141/tchick_bucket/Firearms/2011-09-25_14-14-50_599.jpg

WacoGlock
09-25-2011, 20:17
You are correct about older eyes. I went to Hi Vis sights for daytime shooting and I have a CT on my G23 for low light and night time.It does make a big difference.

michael e
09-25-2011, 20:26
At least you admit you need one now instead of making a mistake in a SD situation . I have personally never used one but have been toying with the idea lately.

ronin.45
09-25-2011, 22:43
They are a good choice in many situations, old eyes being a major one.

Turbo810
09-26-2011, 04:21
I have them on my Kimber and am thinking about them for my glock. They do make a big difference.

Bren
09-26-2011, 04:37
Maybe you need a laser, but sights are only about 5% as important as shooters make them out to be. Usually they add lasers and change sights when the only part that needed work was their strong hand and trigger finger.

9mmdude
09-26-2011, 05:06
Maybe you need a laser, but sights are only about 5% as important as shooters make them out to be. Usually they add lasers and change sights when the only part that needed work was their strong hand and trigger finger.

Maybe you need to get old and have the eyesight problems he has. Then you will see it is about 95% eyes. Not many blind people shoot; keep sending the wisdom.

JBP55
09-26-2011, 05:25
Maybe you need to get old and have the eyesight problems he has. Then you will see it is about 95% eyes. Not many blind people shoot; keep sending the wisdom.


As someone with impaired vision I agree with the you and the op.
One poster answers every issue with you need more trigger time.
He will change his mind as he ages also.

Tom in Arizona
09-26-2011, 06:44
In addition to the compensation for aged vision lasers offer more options than conventional iron, holo or scope sights.

Although you may dry fire practice your trigger pull with iron sights, until you practice that with a laser you can not really visualy appreciate the differences in trigger control. Especially practicing with your weak hand.

Iron and scope sights are fine when you have a shooting position and situation where you can look down the slide at the target. However you may find yourself in a situation or with an injury where that is not possible and then a laser sight is very useful shooting from an awkard or unfamilar position.

To Bren's comment, sights are very important unless you are into spray and pray targeting. I like the TLR-2's on my Glocks and the Crimson Trace on other pistols and revolvers.

Sonnytoo
09-26-2011, 08:04
They are a good choice in many situations, old eyes being a major one.

I don't know how you define "old" eyes, but mine are about 73. If you are old, you probably should have your cataracts replaced with good lenses. Quick and easy and outpatient procedure and Medicare. With Medicare, I got new lenses for about $1000 per eye. It would have been about half of that, but I paid additional to have the eye-doc correct for astigmatism.

I've had 20/400 vision, legally blind without glasses, for all of my life until last year. Now I have about 20/20 in one eye and 20/25 in the other. I need to wear glasses to read. MY reading glasses also let me focus quite nicely on the front sight.
I haven't used laser sights, but if that's where you are, then good for you.
S2

Brucev
09-26-2011, 08:35
I like iron sights. In low light, etc., they blow. For the range... even when hunting, I have and currently routinely use them for excellent results. But when hunting in low light, I use a scope. It is a tremendous advantage over any iron sights ever invented. The same is true of any iron sights on any handgun for low light SD/HD. In low light one can take a handgun and point and shoot and hope to hit something. At hard off the muzzle range, you'll likely hit something... maybe even the "threat." But at hard off the muzzle on out to across the room/down the hall distances in low light, a laser is extremely effective. It is not traditional. So what? Neither were cartridges when everyone was still stuffing loose powder and ball into percussion revolvers. Hits are what count. Lasers make it easier in low light to get hits. And hits are all that matter.

scattershot
09-26-2011, 08:41
This mod helped me a lot. I have 65 year old eyes, and I can pick this up in a hurry. I just hogged out the rear sight with a 1/4" rattail file, and left the front sight alone. Cheap, too.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/scattershot/IMGP4505.jpg

jwhite75
09-26-2011, 08:50
^^^^^^Maybe optical illusion but that rear sight looks way to the right on that gun...

BailRecoveryAgent
09-26-2011, 09:07
This mod helped me a lot. I have 65 year old eyes, and I can pick this up in a hurry. I just hogged out the rear sight with a 1/4" rattail file, and left the front sight alone. Cheap, too.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/scattershot/IMGP4505.jpg

What sights are those??

AustinTx
09-26-2011, 09:22
This mod helped me a lot. I have 65 year old eyes, and I can pick this up in a hurry. I just hogged out the rear sight with a 1/4" rattail file, and left the front sight alone. Cheap, too.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/scattershot/IMGP4505.jpg

That's really not a bad looking sight set-up.

Bren
09-26-2011, 11:20
Maybe you need to get old and have the eyesight problems he has. Then you will see it is about 95% eyes. Not many blind people shoot; keep sending the wisdom.

I was out at the range a couple of years ago and there was an old guy shooting a fixed sight S&W .38. His wife was beside him calling out his hits. He was shooting a steel plate about the size of an 11x17 sheet of paper at 100 yards. Turns out he was legally blind, so his wife had to drive him to the range and help spot the target. But he knew how to pull the trigger and control recoil.

If you can see the laser dot on the target, you can see the front sight and if you are having trouble seeing the target clearly, you're doing it wrong, because you aren't supposed to be seeing the target clearly.

Tom in Arizona
09-26-2011, 12:02
I was out at the range a couple of years ago and there was an old guy shooting a fixed sight S&W .38. His wife was beside him calling out his hits. He was shooting a steel plate about the size of an 11x17 sheet of paper at 100 yards. Turns out he was legally blind, so his wife had to drive him to the range and help spot the target. But he knew how to pull the trigger and control recoil.

If you can see the laser dot on the target, you can see the front sight and if you are having trouble seeing the target clearly, you're doing it wrong, because you aren't supposed to be seeing the target clearly.
The artillary guys don't have to see their target either, their spotter will call them in, like his wife. It's actually fun to do with a 44 Mag at 300 or better. And what makes you think she actually drove him there instead of giving him directions as he drove? Makes you feel real secure on the road.
You are wrong about seeing the target and the front sight, when focused on the front sight, a slightly fuzzy target may or may not be the one pointing the weapon at you at the time.

alwaysshootin
09-26-2011, 12:06
I know a lot of people don't like laser sights but as my eyes get older I'm sold on them. I went shooting today and shot my Glock 19 for the first time with the Crimson Trace laser grips on it. I also shot my Beretta 96D with standard sights. My older eyes have a hard time seeing the sights these days and as a result I can't shoot groups as tight as I used to. I shot the Beretta at 25' rapid fire and shot the Glock at 25 yards rapid fire. My targets speak for themselves. You younger guys may be able to shoot fine without them but for us older guys lasers have their place.

Beretta 96D with iron sights, 25'
http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt141/tchick_bucket/Firearms/2011-09-25_14-36-59_636.jpg

Glock 19 with Crimson Trace laser grips, 25 yards
http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt141/tchick_bucket/Firearms/2011-09-25_14-14-50_599.jpg

From the pics, from in the stall, it appears someone needs, even more help, than you!:supergrin:

Ranger357
09-26-2011, 12:42
Expensive, but this is likely a better answer. (Photos not mine)

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv340/g2920/cid_F6A46F575F0942FE9FF24A0F010F84A2JamesPC.jpg

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv340/g2920/cid_F54EA7D086C1410EB3C918B53209D7DDJamesPC.jpg

bentbiker
09-26-2011, 13:00
If you can see the laser dot on the target, you can see the front sight and if you are having trouble seeing the target clearly, you're doing it wrong, because you aren't supposed to be seeing the target clearly.
You apparently have no experience with failing vision. Just because someone has satisfactory vision (corrected or non-corrected) at a distance of 7+ yds, it doesn't mean they can focus on a front sight less than 1 yd from their eyes. And correction to focus on the front sight might well mean it is impossible to identify a target at distance.

As for whether "you aren't supposed to be seeing the target clearly," I'd say that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I like to identify my targets before shooting them.

OP, there are a couple issues with lasers that can cause issues. Have you tried to use a laser on a moving target? Outdoors, especially in bright sunlight, it can be nearly impossible to find the laser dot, and with a moving target, you might be dead before you find the dot. An alternative that offers the same advantages as a laser without the above disadvantages is the small red dot sight -- with a good RDS, the dot is always quickly visible, and although it reflects off the lens close to your eyes, it appears as if it is bouncing off the target.

M&P15T
09-26-2011, 13:08
I have heard that lasers are also good for showing flaws in your shooting/trigger technique.

Tom in Arizona
09-26-2011, 13:40
I have heard that lasers are also good for showing flaws in your shooting/trigger technique.
Absolutly, it really points it out to you and anyone watching the red dot move around on the target!

Also use the TLR-2's that I tempory mount to rifle barrels, using a Streamlight shotgun magazine tube synthetic mount with shims for the rifle barrel, when changing out scopes. Mount the laser, zero the laser to the point of impact shown in the scope, then mount the new scope to point of impact shown by the laser. Remove the laser and comes very, very close and easier than boresighting.

Sonnytoo
09-26-2011, 14:08
This mod helped me a lot. I have 65 year old eyes, and I can pick this up in a hurry. I just hogged out the rear sight with a 1/4" rattail file, and left the front sight alone. Cheap, too.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/scattershot/IMGP4505.jpg

That looks like a nice setup for steel plates...
and yes, I'm pretty sure that the rear sight is over to the right, but some of my Glocks shoot that way also. Not unusual.
S2

Twoball
10-10-2011, 20:48
This mod helped me a lot. I have 65 year old eyes, and I can pick this up in a hurry. I just hogged out the rear sight with a 1/4" rattail file, and left the front sight alone. Cheap, too.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/scattershot/IMGP4505.jpg

You could also try Ameriglo U-Rap rear correct height front Classic or ProGlo
Very easy for all eyes....even old eyes to pick up the front sight....
They have a wide rear opening...which is not the best for "target shooting at 25 yards or beyond".....but work great 10 yards or less

CaptainXL
10-13-2011, 12:29
I too am getting old and eysight is not what it once was. Have tri-focal glasses. But, it's not just about good or bad eyes. What about shooting on the move? VERY LOW LIGHT conditions? Being in an awkward position were you cannot actually raise your weapon to get a sight picture? Not enough time to get behind the gun to see the sights?

Watch the following videos.
http://youtu.be/LBmZ92e9QoM
http://youtu.be/-oRUrNjBJIE
http://youtu.be/Tlnp487BY_0

Lasers are not just for OLD guys or people who cannot shoot well in ideal situations on a range. I have a Crimson Trace on a G36 (bedside nightstand) and Trijicon XD's on a G27.

'Nuf said.

Tom in Arizona
10-13-2011, 15:49
I too am getting old and eysight is not what it once was. Have tri-focal glasses. But, it's not just about good or bad eyes. What about shooting on the move? VERY LOW LIGHT conditions? Being in an awkward position were you cannot actually raise your weapon to get a sight picture? Not enough time to get behind the gun to see the sights?

Watch the following videos.
http://youtu.be/LBmZ92e9QoM
http://youtu.be/-oRUrNjBJIE
http://youtu.be/Tlnp487BY_0

Lasers are not just for OLD guys or people who cannot shoot well in ideal situations on a range. I have a Crimson Trace on a G36 (bedside nightstand) and Trijicon XD's on a G27.

'Nuf said.
Well stated!

1time
10-16-2011, 11:50
I too am getting old and eysight is not what it once was. Have tri-focal glasses. But, it's not just about good or bad eyes. What about shooting on the move? VERY LOW LIGHT conditions? Being in an awkward position were you cannot actually raise your weapon to get a sight picture? Not enough time to get behind the gun to see the sights?

Watch the following videos.
http://youtu.be/LBmZ92e9QoM
http://youtu.be/-oRUrNjBJIE
http://youtu.be/Tlnp487BY_0

Lasers are not just for OLD guys or people who cannot shoot well in ideal situations on a range. I have a Crimson Trace on a G36 (bedside nightstand) and Trijicon XD's on a G27. 'Nuf said.


Lasers are slow and hard to keep track of when things start moving. That dot hits the first thing it contacts. You're old eyes will not have to track a dot that may be on an object 10 feet in front of your target or a building 100 yards behind your target if your gun is not pointed on the target already. On your one video see how the dot makes your focus shift when the bad guys arm interrupts the beam. Imaging if that was a bit of cover in front of you. Lasers have their place but it is much more limited than most people realize. They work great on a static range. It will cost you speed in real life.

And Todd Jarrett demonstrating how good he can shoot with a laser is like Ron Jeremy telling me how much better his life is with Extenze.

Tom in Arizona
10-16-2011, 15:00
Lasers are slow and hard to keep track of when things start moving. That dot hits the first thing it contacts. You're old eyes will not have to track a dot that may be on an object 10 feet in front of your target or a building 100 yards behind your target if your gun is not pointed on the target already. On your one video see how the dot makes your focus shift when the bad guys arm interrupts the beam. Imaging if that was a bit of cover in front of you. Lasers have their place but it is much more limited than most people realize. They work great on a static range. It will cost you speed in real life.

And Todd Jarrett demonstrating how good he can shoot with a laser is like Ron Jeremy telling me how much better his life is with Extenze.
So are front sights, operation of your weapon and everything else. The key is to practice, practice and practice some more so that your tools and techniques will be familar when you can not concentrate on them! Laser are not a substitute but rather a supplement to your other tools.

happyguy
10-16-2011, 15:05
If you can see the laser dot on the target, you can see the front sight

This statement proves you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

1time
10-16-2011, 20:29
So are front sights, operation of your weapon and everything else. The key is to practice, practice and practice some more so that your tools and techniques will be familar when you can not concentrate on them! Laser are not a substitute but rather a supplement to your other tools.

I think you missed my point. Front sights and red dot sights are always on the same focal plane. Your eyes were only designed to focus on 1 plane at a time. A laser keeps changing due to it lighting on the first object it meets whether that is the target, an object 10 yards in front of the target or an object 100 yards past the target. Lasers in the real world can cause the shooter to look at everything but the target trying to get the laser where it should be. The only practice that will mitigate that is learning to use your sights to get on the target or get good at point shooting so you are sure your are pointing it at the target when the laser comes on. But if you can do that you should be pulling the trigger, not looking at the laser.

Even if a laser were the end all be all of accurate shooting, they still induce tunnel vision. If you need to fire a gun in self defense you will be fighting tunnel vision as it is. Now you are focused on a dot that is maybe an inch in diameter on a full size person. You will never see a second adversary while looking at a laser and probably will not be able to see the targets hands, which are what will hurt you.

Tom in Arizona
10-16-2011, 20:59
I think you missed my point. Front sights and red dot sights are always on the same focal plane. Your eyes were only designed to focus on 1 plane at a time. A laser keeps changing due to it lighting on the first object it meets whether that is the target, an object 10 yards in front of the target or an object 100 yards past the target. Lasers in the real world can cause the shooter to look at everything but the target trying to get the laser where it should be. The only practice that will mitigate that is learning to use your sights to get on the target or get good at point shooting so you are sure your are pointing it at the target when the laser comes on. But if you can do that you should be pulling the trigger, not looking at the laser.

Even if a laser were the end all be all of accurate shooting, they still induce tunnel vision. If you need to fire a gun in self defense you will be fighting tunnel vision as it is. Now you are focused on a dot that is maybe an inch in diameter on a full size person. You will never see a second adversary while looking at a laser and probably will not be able to see the targets hands, which are what will hurt you.
Front sight only works if you have a rear sight and your eyes behind it and that is the limitation. A laser projects a dot on where the muzzle is pointing no matter where your eye is on line to the target. Just another supplement to your tools. Practice is the key to using all of your tools and not concentrating only on one method of shooting. Give it a try and you will see that it works.

sc1911cwp
10-23-2011, 14:26
Well I guess I'll just buy the first Glock Shotgun that comes my way. In the meantime I'll just tell everyone I'll endowed:)