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Mr. Blandings
09-25-2011, 23:11
http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-chief-police-could-down-plane-needed-234359488.html

NYPD's Ray Kelly says in a 60 Minutes interview that the Dept's counter-terrorism capabilities include the ability to take down a plane if necessary.
Details were not discussed.

kc8ykd
09-25-2011, 23:24
this makes for fun speculative scenarios.

what do you guys think?

manpads

or

quad 50 cals (i'd propose a barrett, but i think they're only considered lethal to aircraft in the air when used in CA)


considering the range of each and the area to cover (versus maneuvering whatever system from a central location to where ever it's needed) , one would have to station multiple's around the city.


i wonder too, what would be the collateral damage of multiple missed rounds falling back to the ground in the city, or an airframe falling after being hit.


personally, i'd go with the quad 50 cals.

i think they'd be a great multipurpose system, good for riots, barricaded suspect, heck, even pursuits (why screw around with stop sticks).

Trigger Finger
09-25-2011, 23:24
That's interesting. I have it recorded but have not watched it yet.

Speculating, I would say something like a Stinger. If you the missed the target the Stinger would explode while still up in the air!

HotRoderX
09-25-2011, 23:39
Call me crazy but that does not make since why would they need something like that. Unless the plane is in a very rural area are your going to do is potential put way more people in danger.

Patchman
09-26-2011, 02:09
Had always heard NYC had their own overhead satellite. Just didn't realize it was of the "Death Star" variety. :whistling:

But seriously, it sounds more like the NYPD has some access to the command loop of Air National Guard/Air Force and can request them to intercept/shoot down a plane, if necessary. I'm guessing the Secret Service, Homeland Security and some of the other LE agencies (LAPD?) have this capability also.

Foxtrotx1
09-26-2011, 02:44
I have a hard time believing that NYPD has access to a stinger missile.

TreverSlyFox
09-26-2011, 03:16
The first question I'd ask is WHO has the Command Authority to "Order" a plane shot out of the air?

The next question is once you've shot it down over New York City where do you think it will crash?

MadMonkey
09-26-2011, 03:41
I wonder if he meant "take down" in the same sense as taking down a room or building (IE clearing bad guys out of it), since he was discussing a CT unit. Then the media ran with it like they always do, without doing a lick of research.

Can you imagine the repercussions of a police department shooting down an airliner full of innocent people? :shocked: The fact that this is even CONSIDERED terrifies me.

eracer
09-26-2011, 04:20
So Mount Rushmore was just a ruse?

http://movie-top.com/team.america.world.police/team.america.world.police.jpg

A6Gator
09-26-2011, 07:25
"Clarification" on Fox News this morning said that because NYPD possessed .50 cal rifles that they could take down an airplane. I suppose it could happen, but if it does, the shooter should buy a lottery ticket because he just beat those odds too...

If they have Stingers or other manpads, it'd be an interesting targeting problem in Manhattan, with target queuing being a weak link w/all the traffic going into the NY metro area (EWR/LGA/JFK and Teterboro, just off the top of my head).

If they have a Patriot system, then they have way too much money...

Patchman
09-26-2011, 07:31
"Clarification" on Fox News this morning said that because NYPD possessed .50 cal rifles that they could take down an airplane. I suppose it could happen, but if it does, the shooter should buy a lottery ticket because he just beat those odds too...

Read another article which clarified they have .50 cals and helicopters that can fly up to 3000 (or was that 30,000?) feet. So technically the NYPD does have the capabilities to take down a jet plane.

But as already noted, wishing and doing are two different things.

And geographically, NYC is surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean in the south and plenty of rural areas north and west (NJ doesn't count :supergrin:).

RWBlue
09-26-2011, 08:44
The first question I'd ask is WHO has the Command Authority to "Order" a plane shot out of the air?

The next question is once you've shot it down over New York City where do you think it will crash?

In a bad neighborhood requiring federal funding to rejuvenate of course.

10-13
09-26-2011, 09:28
so...apparently we have the ability to shoot down planes with hundreds of passengers that will then likely crash into NYC, but if we shoot at cars filled with possibly armed perps with an intoxicated driver who just rammed a police vehicle and an officer on foot and was preparing to hit him again we get arrested and charged with reckless endangerment.

awsome.

OLY-M4gery
09-26-2011, 09:42
I wonder if he meant "take down" in the same sense as taking down a room or building (IE clearing bad guys out of it), since he was discussing a CT unit. Then the media ran with it like they always do, without doing a lick of research.

Can you imagine the repercussions of a police department shooting down an airliner full of innocent people? :shocked: The fact that this is even CONSIDERED terrifies me.

Take down and shoot down are two different things.

MadMonkey
09-26-2011, 10:23
Take down and shoot down are two different things.

....and the article never said "shoot down". It said "take down" multiple times.

RocPO
09-26-2011, 13:09
so...apparently we have the ability to shoot down planes with hundreds of passengers that will then likely crash into NYC, but if we shoot at cars filled with possibly armed perps with an intoxicated driver who just rammed a police vehicle and an officer on foot and was preparing to hit him again we get arrested and charged with reckless endangerment.

awsome.

God help the PO that follows an order to shoot at an aircraft. This is another of Popeye's media stunts to reinflate his oversized ego after the feds started looking into having his own version of the CIA. Or the nonsense going on with the Bronx DA's office. This guy really thinks he's the DHS Secretary, not a LOCAL police commissioner. :upeyes:
He's more worried about his political future then he is being a leader. He's nothing more then a piece of turd in a suit.
And yes, Popeye was alluding to having several Barrett 50 cals helicopter mounted.

larry_minn
09-26-2011, 15:16
What does he mean by "take down"?? Could they mean control aircraft on ground if there are "bad guys" aboard? As in practice entry?

A6Gator
09-26-2011, 16:03
Read another article which clarified they have .50 cals and helicopters that can fly up to 3000 (or was that 30,000?) feet. So technically the NYPD does have the capabilities to take down a jet plane.

Max altitude for a Bell Ranger, for example is 20,000, but at that altitude an airliner isn't a threat (other than to the folks inside). If they plan on marksmen drilling an Airbus/Boeing something at 350 kts before it crashes in a building, with a helo that goes maybe a buck -fifty, full-tilt boogie, should be pretty interesting and not a very stable platform. Now a helo with Sidewinders (AIM-9X) on it, might work... it's pretty hard to turn inside a helo and with a cooled seeker, might be able to shoot them in the face.

Patchman
09-26-2011, 17:27
I believe Detective John McClane, even shooting from a helicopter, can make the shot.

Ajon412
09-26-2011, 17:40
The first question I'd ask is WHO has the Command Authority to "Order" a plane shot out of the air?

The next question is once you've shot it down over New York City where do you think it will crash?

With any luck, maybe somewhere in New Jersey....:dunno:...I was thinking either Newark or Camden, seeing that no one would really miss these two cites anyway......:rofl::rofl:

Ajon412
09-26-2011, 17:46
Had always heard NYC had their own overhead satellite. Just didn't realize it was of the "Death Star" variety. :whistling:

But seriously, it sounds more like the NYPD has some access to the command loop of Air National Guard/Air Force and can request them to intercept/shoot down a plane, if necessary. I'm guessing the Secret Service, Homeland Security and some of the other LE agencies (LAPD?) have this capability also.

Negative...I heard they have a "Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range"......:rofl:

KY Moose
09-26-2011, 18:03
Maybe they're taking the LAPD approach.

http://www.impdb.org/images/thumb/2/20/Dragnet_T-38.jpg/500px-Dragnet_T-38.jpg

EOD3
09-26-2011, 18:07
Shooting from a 5-blade chopper is a "little" easier than shooting from a 2-blade but a moving aircraft from a helicopter. Not likely :upeyes:

CAcop
09-26-2011, 21:51
A .50 cal sniper rifle might work for a Cessna. A 747 they might as well be shooting at it with their 9 mils.

kc8ykd
09-27-2011, 00:20
another thing to consider, on top of the complications of shooting an airplane from a heli with a rifle, is their airframe speeds.


the top speed of the bell 412 i've seen in nypd colors is about 140kts. (service ceiling is around 20k ft)

top speed of a cessna 172 is around 163kts.


they're gonna have to get really really really lucky with positioning of equipment and airframes to be hopeful to intercept a small plane, then hope the guy doesn't open the throttle a little and just pull away.

and, assuming the target is a small jet, say, VLJ category, max speeds will be in excess of 300kts.

the target would be miles and miles away before their air assets get vectors.


another possibility, is that this is really an attempt at psychological warfare, by overstating their capabilities and hoping that nobody will really think about the claims made with any seriousness.

i have no doubt they have barretts and have trained using them in the air, but the claim of being able to take out a plane are a little questionable.

A6Gator
09-27-2011, 07:07
A .50 cal sniper rifle might work for a Cessna. A 747 they might as well be shooting at it with their 9 mils.

I guess if they used 10mm's, they'd have to worry about where the airplane would crash and EMP...:rofl:

Ajon412
09-27-2011, 12:55
If they have Stingers or other manpads, it'd be an interesting targeting problem in Manhattan, with target queuing being a weak link w/all the traffic going into the NY metro area (EWR/LGA/JFK and Teterboro, just off the top of my head).

Maybe the NYPD picked a few up from Libya on E-bay....:rofl:..It seems the former Libyan Government is "missing" approximately 20,000 manpads.....:whistling:.....This is gonna get real interesting....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44685978/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/

cowboywannabe
09-27-2011, 13:10
double post......

cowboywannabe
09-27-2011, 13:11
50 cal. rifle taking down a plane is garbage spewed by liberals.

if it were the norm instead of the exception how the hell did we bomb Germany? ever see all the bullet holes in those planes as they landed?

but somehow a clown with a badge or private citizen clown can shoot down a plane with a slow fire by comparison 50cal rifle?

puh leeze..........

series1811
09-27-2011, 13:32
So there were actually people who heard this, and thought the Police Chief meant that they would, or could, shoot down an airplane?

cowboywannabe
09-27-2011, 13:56
when somebody (cops) say "take down a plane", im sure they dont mean wrestle it down like when they "take down a perp".

A6Gator
09-28-2011, 09:52
Maybe the NYPD picked a few up from Libya on E-bay....:rofl:..It seems the former Libyan Government is "missing" approximately 20,000 manpads.....:whistling:.....This is gonna get real interesting....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44685978/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/

Yeah, I heard that this morning. I wonder if somebody's going to ask Barry or Hillary if is this is some of the hope & change stuff from the Arab spring he was so supportive of...

Looks like some of the manpads are on the move already:

http://www.debka.com/article/21342/

SA24 has a cooled seeker, with all aspect, night-time capability... I feel a lot better now...

lawman800
09-28-2011, 13:59
Maybe they have the secret Remora planes with the suction cups and Steven Seagal leading a team of Army CT soldiers with Kurt Russell tagging along in a tuxedo.

Patchman
09-28-2011, 16:10
Maybe the NYPD picked a few up from Libya on E-bay....:rofl:..It seems the former Libyan Government is "missing" approximately 20,000 manpads.....:whistling:.....This is gonna get real interesting....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44685978/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/

When the civil war in Libya started a few months, I distinctly remember suggesting here on CT that we should go there to shop for some hardware. You snooze, you lose. :whistling:

mrsurfboard
09-28-2011, 18:15
I have a hard time believing that NYPD has access to a stinger missile.

If the Feds provided them, then why not. Hell, NYPD has agents in other countries acting like spys, Stingers don't seem that far fetched.

jtull7
09-28-2011, 18:37
No police department in the US has the authority to shoot down an aircraft for any reason. Period. Whoever made that statement is an idiot. I suspect he needs a heart-to-heart talk with his U.S. Attorney about avoiding being placed in federal prison for the rest of his life.

Patchman
09-29-2011, 17:10
See how effective the NYPD's publicity worked?

Although this terrorist was closer to NYC, he instead picked the Pentagon and Capital Hill. He knew NYC airspace was well defended with those airborne .50 cals!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/28/rezwan-ferdaus-terror-plot_n_985759.html

RocPO
09-29-2011, 17:20
No police department in the US has the authority to shoot down an aircraft for any reason. Period. Whoever made that statement is an idiot. I suspect he needs a heart-to-heart talk with his U.S. Attorney about avoiding being placed in federal prison for the rest of his life.

You don't understand. Popeye firmly believes he has more authority and power then the federal government. He thinks he stands somewhere between the President and God.
http://theerant.yuku.com/topic/39473 - about Popeye attempting to remove a Deputy Chief who refused to take CLASSIFIED documents out of the FBI building so ray ray could look at them.

Cochese
09-30-2011, 01:09
You don't understand. Popeye firmly believes he has more authority and power then the federal government. He thinks he stands somewhere between the President and God.
http://theerant.yuku.com/topic/39473 - about Popeye attempting to remove a Deputy Chief who refused to take CLASSIFIED documents out of the FBI building so ray ray could look at them.

They kicked him out and stuck him in the academy.

He has his 20 years in. I'd punch my clock one last time and tell the Commish to ESAD.