Lock Picking Tools, BOB,GHB, for Shelter on the Run? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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dennis3dflyer
09-28-2011, 00:01
I don't remember if anyone ever brought this up before. Using a simple tension tool and basic pick. Just 2 small pieces of flat tool spring weighing less than a penny could provide great Shelter,Food,Fire, ect. For a person needing to travel to get home or away from trouble.

In my area there are many empty homes, apts, in just a 1 mile walk. No entity would mind or notice someone using it for a nite or day stopover. Actually some squatters are staying years in them for free.

I've seen a basic lock pic set sell for a very low price mabey even # 5 to 10 dollars for the very basic that would pic the average homes front door lock. I have also seen them sold at gunshows.

I think this is an overlooked tool. Being on the run with easy quick access to shelter and mabey even more should not be overlooked.

Opinions ?

Thanks, Dennis

G29Reload
09-28-2011, 00:21
FL has a habit of making felonies out of anything. Trespassing at a construction site in FL is a felony, not much of a stretch that it is or could be if you get nailed "urban camping".

Let the squatters squat. Their problem. It's one thing if you're fleeing armageddon, its another thing to get popped trying out a field exercise.

Having too many tools or implements without good cause can also get you charged with "burglarious tools" or solidify intent on the part of the cop that nabs you, bringing a charge where there might not have been. I wouldnt have more than a leatherman on me.

Oso
09-28-2011, 00:25
Picking a door lock and entering a home, whether occupied or not is breaking and entering. Best case...you're going to jail. Worst case... You will be shot.

IBTL


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dennis3dflyer
09-28-2011, 00:35
Well if its an emergency situation, Post EarthQuake, Nuclear, Sunami, Mass Riots, No Electricity for days, EMP situation, and your on foot and need shelter/hiding/ What ethic or legal wise bothers you. I personally think its better than Breaking In vs using a Master Key/Lockpic. No foul no harm especially if the location is not in posession of anyone/bank. And if its the end of things socially I have no problem with it.

Dennis

RedHaze
09-28-2011, 00:43
http://www.highoctanecaraccessories.com/images/buck_hickman/pry_bar.jpg

TangoFoxtrot
09-28-2011, 04:07
I don't remember if anyone ever brought this up before. Using a simple tension tool and basic pick. Just 2 small pieces of flat tool spring weighing less than a penny could provide great Shelter,Food,Fire, ect. For a person needing to travel to get home or away from trouble.

In my area there are many empty homes, apts, in just a 1 mile walk. No entity would mind or notice someone using it for a nite or day stopover. Actually some squatters are staying years in them for free.

I've seen a basic lock pic set sell for a very low price mabey even # 5 to 10 dollars for the very basic that would pic the average homes front door lock. I have also seen them sold at gunshows.

I think this is an overlooked tool. Being on the run with easy quick access to shelter and mabey even more should not be overlooked.

Opinions ?

Thanks, Dennis


Thats all well and good in an extreme case, but ewhere I'm from your butt can be gunned down for B&E!

Unistat
09-28-2011, 07:16
OP, have you any experience with lock picks? I have some, and I will tell you that a simple rake and tension tool are far from ideal when picking a door lock. In my old job, my boss and I used to go into homes slated for demo to look for architectural savage and historic items. Sometimes the City Engineer had keys, and sometimes we had to break in.

Picking the lock took a long time usually, it was much quicker to punch the doorknob out with a sledge, but we didn't do that often because sometimes it would be a couple of months before the homes were torn down and we wanted to limit squatters.

If installed with the pins on the bottom, gravity will not assist you in picking the lock and make it much harder. Even if the pins are up, picking a lock is not really a quick job, unless you get a little lucky. Occasionally, I can get a lock open in a few seconds, and that really impresses people, let me tell you! But more often it takes me around 15-30 minutes to get a lock open, in ideal conditions. A lock pick gun may be quicker, I don't have any experience with them. They essentially allow you to rake the pins very quickly several times a second until the lock is opened.

I tend to agree that a crow bar is faster, and speed is going to be more important than stealth if you are looking for and emergency shelter the home is vacant and abandoned.

sebecman
09-28-2011, 07:26
Around here posession of lock picking tools is a crime.

I would not carry them for any reason.

Bilbo Bagins
09-28-2011, 08:08
Like other have said, its illegal to carry tools like that.

Call me crazy but I rather sleep outside. Too much can happen if you break into a home in a SHTF event. Maybe a squatter family already lives there, maybe some real estate guy with a key is going to use that house as a bug out location, maybe the original owner will come back realizing that the forclosure no longer applies.

Granted if its an EOTW event, a few months after a pandemic thing, and no one is around, and almost everyone is dead, then I'll probably be breaking in houses and cars for shelter or anything useful, but for your standard SHTF event, I kind of lean toward the respecting personal property thing

AK_Stick
09-28-2011, 08:33
If you really want in bolt cutters or a good kick are far faster, and don't carry a felony charge for just having

cowboy1964
09-28-2011, 10:58
LOL, just because you don't "break in" doesn't make it any less of a crime. And you could be arrested at any time if you're discovered carrying "criminal tools".

Unistat
09-28-2011, 11:08
http://locksport.com/

They have a downloadable .pdf guide.

Around here, possessing lock picks in and of itself is not a crime. It's sort of like how body armor is not illegal, but if you wear it while you do something criminal, your charges will be automatically upped. If you have lock picks while committing a crime, they will charge you with the possession of burglary tools. But in that case, a crowbar will be a burglary tool as well.

All in all, I would avoid breaking into a building unless you are The Postman on The Road.

Edit: I did carry lock picks in my work bag everyday at my old job, in they are still in there.

FatBoy
09-28-2011, 11:38
Around here posession of lock picking tools is a crime.

I would not carry them for any reason.

Could you cite the Maine law that says that? I have looked and couldn't find one.

Thanks

FB

ETA:I don't believe 17a Sec 403 applies, but I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

enbloc
09-28-2011, 19:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auQbi_fkdGE

I like to make the picks and tension wrenches from stainless steel windshield wiper blade stiffeners. Pick/attempt to pick a lock (in private of course) then throw them away, discreetly.

With practice you can "Macgiver' it" fairly quickly.

Remember: it's only illegal if it's not YOUR lock you're picking.

Have fun!

BillJ
09-28-2011, 20:48
Just a thought... Would you want to be arrested in the middle of a natural disaster or SHTF situation and take the chance of being locked up in the middle of all that?

Or worse yet a neighbor sees you doing a felony act of B&E and decides to take care of it themselves with a deer rifle from down the block.

Kevin108
09-28-2011, 22:01
Okay, Dennis. So it's SHTF and one tactic you've used to deter looters is to make your home look abandoned. Since nobody lives there, someone stops by, following advice they'd read previously on GT S&P. They let themselves in and...

cyrsequipment
09-29-2011, 05:09
Could you cite the Maine law that says that? I have looked and couldn't find one.

Thanks

FB

ETA:I don't believe 17a Sec 403 applies, but I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

It does apply...

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/17-A/title17-Asec403.html


1. A person is guilty of possession or transfer of burglar's tools if that person:
A. Possesses or makes any tool, implement, instrument or other article that is adapted, designed or commonly used for advancing or facilitating crimes involving unlawful entry into property or crimes involving forcible breaking of safes or other containers or depositories of property, including, but not limited to, an electronic device used as a code grabber or a master key designed to fit more than one lock, with intent to use such tool, implement, instrument or other article to commit any such criminal offense. Violation of this paragraph is a Class E crime; or [2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF); 2001, c. 383, 60 (AMD).]
B. Transfers or possesses with the intent to transfer any device described in paragraph A that that person knows is designed or primarily useful for the commission of a crime described in paragraph A. Violation of this paragraph is a Class D crime. [2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF); 2001, c. 383, 60 (AMD).]
[ 2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF); 2001, c. 383, 60 (AMD) .]
2.
[ 2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF); 2001, c. 383, 61 (RP) .]
SECTION HISTORY
1975, c. 499, 1 (NEW). 1997, c. 372, 1 (RPR). 2001, c. 383, 60,61 (AMD). 2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF).


The law is purposely broad, it applies to crowbars (used in a crime) just as much as lockpicks and master keys. I've also seen it applied to a unlawfully duplicated hotel key....

Kevin108
09-29-2011, 05:41
That law reads "possession with intent to commit a criminal offense."

If you carry the tools for any other reason, you're okay.

FatBoy
09-29-2011, 08:47
It does apply...

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/17-A/title17-Asec403.html


1. A person is guilty of possession or transfer of burglar's tools if that person:
A. Possesses or makes any tool, implement, instrument or other article that is adapted, designed or commonly used for advancing or facilitating crimes involving unlawful entry into property or crimes involving forcible breaking of safes or other containers or depositories of property, including, but not limited to, an electronic device used as a code grabber or a master key designed to fit more than one lock, with intent to use such tool, implement, instrument or other article to commit any such criminal offense. Violation of this paragraph is a Class E crime; or [2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF); 2001, c. 383, 60 (AMD).]
B. Transfers or possesses with the intent to transfer any device described in paragraph A that that person knows is designed or primarily useful for the commission of a crime described in paragraph A. Violation of this paragraph is a Class D crime. [2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF); 2001, c. 383, 60 (AMD).]
[ 2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF); 2001, c. 383, 60 (AMD) .]
2.
[ 2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF); 2001, c. 383, 61 (RP) .]
SECTION HISTORY
1975, c. 499, 1 (NEW). 1997, c. 372, 1 (RPR). 2001, c. 383, 60,61 (AMD). 2001, c. 383, 156 (AFF).


The law is purposely broad, it applies to crowbars (used in a crime) just as much as lockpicks and master keys. I've also seen it applied to a unlawfully duplicated hotel key....

Well, OK it does apply, but it says it's OK to possess, as long as there is no intent. I'm looking for the statute that says possession alone is illegal like sebec said.

Originally Posted by sebecman
Around here posession of lock picking tools is a crime.

I would not carry them for any reason.

FB

FB

sebecman
09-29-2011, 09:10
I'm looking for the statute that says possession alone is illegal like sebec said

Well I looked it up and I don't see one either. I was going on what I had heard from some folks who I thought were in the know. As CYRS post shows, you need to prove intent to use....

Guess that means you are right and I am wrong.

Is that what you wanted to hear?


PS - personally speaking I still wouldn't go around carrying lock picking tools. Intent is often a matter of perspective and is in many cases harder for you to prove innocence than for the police to show reasonable doubt.

cyrsequipment
09-29-2011, 13:07
Well I looked it up and I don't see one either. I was going on what I had heard from some folks who I thought were in the know. As CYRS post shows, you need to prove intent to use....

Guess that means you are right and I am wrong.

Is that what you wanted to hear?


PS - personally speaking I still wouldn't go around carrying lock picking tools. Intent is often a matter of perspective and is in many cases harder for you to prove innocence than for the police to show reasonable doubt.

You're right. If you get caught with one, you'll be put in a VERY bad position in this state. At the very least you are going to get it confiscated.

G29Reload
09-29-2011, 15:28
Picking a door lock and entering a home, whether occupied or not is breaking and entering. Best case...you're going to jail. Worst case... You will be shot.

IBTL


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

This.

The guy on the urban survival thing filmed in Detroit did recommend carrying a small jimmy bar in your pack for getting into expedient shelter, but just having that can be problematic. OTOH if you're just walking down the street and not trespassing you should be ok.

FatBoy
09-29-2011, 16:56
Well I looked it up and I don't see one either. I was going on what I had heard from some folks who I thought were in the know. As CYRS post shows, you need to prove intent to use....

Guess that means you are right and I am wrong.

Is that what you wanted to hear?


PS - personally speaking I still wouldn't go around carrying lock picking tools. Intent is often a matter of perspective and is in many cases harder for you to prove innocence than for the police to show reasonable doubt.

No it's not what I wanted to hear, but it sounds nice :)

I just wanted the correct info. I don't need to be found with something illegal if I can help it.

FB




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Spiffums
09-29-2011, 17:29
Google Key Bumping and see just how easy locks are beat with a "key". The BG don't even have to be skilled anymore.

dennis3dflyer
09-29-2011, 20:16
For those who don,t know about bumping , its using a filed down key that fits the lock and you just tap the key with anything ie small stick while lighly putting turning pressure on it and it unlocks like magic fast easy and no picking experience needed but a lock pick can do more different brand locks where a bump key can only do one brand lock. As far as I know'

Dennis

Toorop
09-29-2011, 22:26
There is something to be said for these items. I don't think it is legal to own but illegal to use. I am sure a decent lawyer could get you out of the charge.

Tag for more information.

survive1999
10-01-2011, 01:59
How hard would it be to take an online course for being a LOCKSMITH and having a validating piece of paper on your wall?

I don't know about TSHTF but being able to pick a lock has helped me out at work and while camping in the middle of the woods when keys were misplaced.

Handy skill.

FireForged
10-01-2011, 09:41
I am not ever going to be carrying lock picking tools.

G29Reload
10-01-2011, 11:59
How hard would it be to take an online course for being a LOCKSMITH and having a validating piece of paper on your wall?



Irrelevant.

If you are a locksmith, its one thing to be found out with the tools if you were just going about your business, say stopped by the law at a traffic stop.

If you're rummaging around an abandoned house without good reason to be there, like ownership, permission, etc, your trade, skills, licenses or awards won't enter into it. You're under arrest.

There are ways to acquire handy skills that you can practice for JIC without breaking the law.

Aceman
10-01-2011, 15:25
This is a slippery area. We need to be a little more clear about the situaiton IMO.

However....in a SHTF I can absolutely see that it would be perhaps advantageous - if not down right courteous, to utilize such skills and tools, as part of survival.

Easy to imagine an abandoned/empty house being the "ideal" site at the right time, and that it would be to your best interest to use that place as shelter.

You might not want to damage someone else's property by breaking in, and you want to maintain a grey-man low key approach and keep the place closed/locked yourself.

That said, there are no doubt risks associated with the tools necessary. As always - know the law, and expect in many cases it will go wrong even when you are right.

I'd rather not destroy a door/lock myself if not necessary...

AK_Stick
10-02-2011, 14:23
For those who don,t know about bumping , its using a filed down key that fits the lock and you just tap the key with anything ie small stick while lighly putting turning pressure on it and it unlocks like magic fast easy and no picking experience needed but a lock pick can do more different brand locks where a bump key can only do one brand lock. As far as I know'

Dennis

But the flip side to that is it only works on some locks

wjv
10-03-2011, 10:04
I carry two small camo colored tarps, some rope and some 8" galvanized nails. Find me two trees out of the way and I can be set up with shelter in minutes. But then I'm not in a major urban area.

Mattkcc
10-05-2011, 23:06
Most homes and apartment are fairly easy to get into. The most common burglary tool is a large screw driver and were I worked no teenager would be without one. Possession of burglary tools is rarely enforced in most jurisdictions as it is hard to prove in court. Also in most states simply breaking into a home isn't a felony, you have to prove they intended to commit a theft or felony, otherwise it's trespassing and criminal damage to property if damage is done. I once got a call to a young woman's apartment. When she got home from work she found a guy sleeping in her bed that she didn't know. I went up and arrested him, he had climbed up to the second story apartment and entered through a open window. I assume he was waiting for the girl to get home got tired and laid his butcher knife on the night stand and took a nap. He wouldn't tell his true intentions and the only charge that would stick was trespassing. If I was in a SHTF situation I could find much quicker and easier methods of entry then a lock pick.

Unistat
10-06-2011, 08:15
Most homes and apartment are fairly easy to get into...
...If I was in a SHTF situation I could find much quicker and easier methods of entry then a lock pick.

This is 100% true. As I stated above, lockpicking isn't always very fast. A crowbar will get you in quicker. A lot of times, at my old job I'd just use one of the various functions on my Leatherman.

On the other hand, this thread has renewed my interest in lockpicking as a hobby. I don't have to use this skill at my new job, so I haven't picked a lock in a while. Guess what? It's a perishable skill.

Honestly, if I didn't do it for fun, I doubt I would bother to learn. I have other things on the "Skills I need to acquire/practice" list. I barely get to the range enough as it is.

Fanner50
10-06-2011, 20:50
If I found you in my house I would shoot you. Your personal SHTF would have come true. :wavey: