bullet tumble problem [Archive] - Glock Talk

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southern94
10-03-2011, 15:10
Ok shot my first round of handloads and they fired with out a hick-up only problem being they are inaccurate and they are tumbling.

i am shooting 124 gr berry's HP bullet
Bullseye dropping 4.6gr
OAL is 1.10

my head space is flush

thanks for the help

Colorado4Wheel
10-03-2011, 15:25
Likely options

1) Too much crimp. Just remove the flare no more.
2) Undersized bullets
3) Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die.

Any single one of those "could" be the problem.

southern94
10-03-2011, 15:44
could you elaborate on 3 i don't really understand

Colorado4Wheel
10-03-2011, 16:04
Lee FCD has a sizing ring. It can size the bullet smaller. Undersize bullets will tumble. The shorter the lengthen in 9mm the more likely it will happen. Easy way to see if that is a issue is to remove the FCD and crimp in a seperate station or seat and crimp at the same time. Jus be sure to NOT dent the plating or you just caused the other problem.

WiskyT
10-03-2011, 16:19
Plated bullets are soft. Soft bullets will tumble when pushed too hard with a fast powder. Back your charge down to 4.0 and see if they tumble. Try a slower powder like Unique and see if they tumble.

unclebob
10-03-2011, 16:45
Also pull a bullet and see if you only see no or very little indentation on the bullet were the mouth of the case was.
Also you could be not putting enough bell on the case and shaving the plating when you seat the bullet

unclebob
10-03-2011, 16:49
Also only change one thing at a time or you well never figure out what was causing the tumbling. I had tumbling one time and all I did was I used a Lee undersize sizing die.

fredj338
10-03-2011, 17:18
Pull a bullet, if you can see your crimp, it's too much. Measure the part of the bullet below the crimp, it should be the same 0.355 or 0.356. Most reloaders put too much crimp on their bullets & w/ plated or lead, accuracy suffers badly. I pulled some 45acp I picked up @ my last IDPA match. They were crimped so hard the bullet base measured 0.448"! No way that guy was getting any decent accuracy. Throw the LFCD away & get another seating die & use that to crimp last if you want.

Tpro
10-03-2011, 17:31
Pull a bullet, if you can see your crimp, it's too much. Measure the part of the bullet below the crimp, it should be the same 0.355 or 0.356. Most reloaders put too much crimp on their bullets & w/ plated or lead, accuracy suffers badly. I pulled some 45acp I picked up @ my last IDPA match. They were crimped so hard the bullet base measured 0.448"! No way that guy was getting any decent accuracy. Throw the LFCD away & get another seating die & use that to crimp last if you want.

So is the die the issue, or misuse of the die?

seems to me if they over crimp that is not an issue with the die.

Colorado4Wheel
10-03-2011, 18:11
Below is a picture of a 9mm/147 gr/.356 bullet @ 1.080, dropped into a FCD. You can see it hits the case at the bullet and is stuck on the Carbide ring.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3317.jpg

Below is a picture of a 124gr FMJ/ .355 @ 1.130" You can see the bullet falls past the carbide ring with no contact.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3318.jpg

fredj338
10-04-2011, 01:10
So is the die the issue, or misuse of the die?

seems to me if they over crimp that is not an issue with the die.
As Steve shows, with the LFCD, it's the die. Even with std TC crimp die, too many guys are cranking the die down thinking that is the way to get good neck tension & all they are doing w/ them is resizing their bullets to an unexceptable smaller size. The bullets will at least be inaccurate if not tumble. My test w/ the LFCD & the 45acp @ 50ft; Berry's 200grFP @ 0.452".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/200PTC.jpg

So I see no real benefit from using the LFCD, at least not in 45acp.:dunno:

ChrisJn
10-04-2011, 06:26
Love your photo, Steve, out of focus background, bullets in foreground...

PCJim
10-04-2011, 10:57
Yep, Ansel would be proud!

dkf
10-04-2011, 11:24
The other day I pulled a 125gr .357sig WWB and the bullet measured .353". Winchester must have screwed something up.

fredj338
10-04-2011, 12:56
The other day I pulled a 125gr .357sig WWB and the bullet measured .353". Winchester must have screwed something up.

Well in WWB, that isn't a surprise. If you are discounting the fact that an undersize bullet shoots poorly, fine, but it is what it is. For the most part, WWB is supposed to go bang, not much else. When you reload for just a little while, you figure ouw why so many of us do it. It's not just about saving money but making better ammo than a large manuf can.:dunno:

dkf
10-04-2011, 17:08
I wasn't really surprised. WWB in .357sig is around the $32/50 now. Last box I bought was $26 which is still high. For that coin you should get better quality. Last two boxes of UMC .357sig I bought had two bullets set back .020"-.025". The cost and lack of quality is why I'm gearing up to reload.

chris in va
10-04-2011, 17:24
I have to use a FCD with my CZ, otherwise I get jams. Some of those lead bullets don't seat quite square and need a bit of adjusting.

fredj338
10-04-2011, 19:47
I wasn't really surprised. WWB in .357sig is around the $32/50 now. Last box I bought was $26 which is still high. For that coin you should get better quality. Last two boxes of UMC .357sig I bought had two bullets set back .020"-.025". The cost and lack of quality is why I'm gearing up to reload.

UMC & WWB are cheap blasting ammo. Too many guys expect too much from it. It goes bang most of the time, that is about all you can expect. Anything mass produced will have the occasional bad runs, but reloading does pretty much solve that & you shoot for 1/2 the cost or less of those cheap ammo brands. I can reload very accuarate 357sig for little more than 9mm, about $12/100.:dunno:

Colorado4Wheel
10-04-2011, 20:22
Don't encourage me I will post more.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3464.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3266.jpg

southern94
10-06-2011, 20:26
just thought i would update i looked at the powder chart wrong for that bullet weight. I dropped it down to 4.0 grain and it was much more accurate. I loaded up some 3.8 gr 4.0 gr and some 4.3 gr and plan to do a comparison on how they do.

Also as a side not i found out that berry's hp bullets won't load in my keltec pf9 because the nose tapers down so late compared to a regular round nose it will not sit in the keltec barrel. It feeds fine in my glock but the keltec slide won't come all the way forward to much headspace i guess. i loaded some round nose and it functions fine.

WiskyT
10-06-2011, 20:33
just thought i would update i looked at the powder chart wrong for that bullet weight. I dropped it down to 4.0 grain and it was much more accurate. I loaded up some 3.8 gr 4.0 gr and some 4.3 gr and plan to do a comparison on how they do.

Also as a side not i found out that berry's hp bullets won't load in my keltec pf9 because the nose tapers down so late compared to a regular round nose it will not sit in the keltec barrel. It feeds fine in my glock but the keltec slide won't come all the way forward to much headspace i guess. i loaded some round nose and it functions fine.

I'm glad you navigated the the various suggestions and found that backing the charge down helped.

As for the PF9, you could try reducing the overall length a little at a time and see if a round will drop in freely.

fredj338
10-06-2011, 21:21
I'm glad you navigated the the various suggestions and found that backing the charge down helped.

As for the PF9, you could try reducing the overall length a little at a time and see if a round will drop in freely.

^^^THIS^^^ It is not a headspace issue at all, but the bullet is hitting the rifling, shallow throat. Quite common w/ many manuf.