Off-duty officer thwarts robbery, shoots 4 suspects [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ajon412
10-04-2011, 03:46
:wow:.....Great job by the off duty.........I guess they picked the wrong victim...

http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/4448404-Off-duty-officer-thwarts-robbery-shoots-4-suspects/

A struggle ensued, and the officer was able to wrestle control of the suspect’s handgun. There was another struggle, over another handgun in the employee’s waistband. The fourth suspect then entered the business to assist, even as the officer got control of the employee’s handgun and used it to shoot all four suspects.

...Outstanding work......

A 16-year-old died at the scene. The other suspects, in their early 20s, are being treated for life-threatening injuries, Rockford police Chief Chet Epperson said.

....Too bad for the BG's / It sucks to be them...

Deployment Solu
10-04-2011, 04:20
Great job!!!!

KiloBravo
10-04-2011, 05:10
Excellent shooting by the officer, but this is a prime example of why I think one should always carry 24/7. It could have went the other way had he not been able to bring a gun into play somehow. He should have had one on his person, IMHO.

collim1
10-04-2011, 07:01
I was thinking the other day, and honestly out of our 120 man dept I estimate about 10% carry a firearm period off-duty. Half of those carry a pocket pistol at best, Ruger LCP or jframe.

I think a LEO should carry a real handgun and a reload 24/7, I know I do.

Oh, and great job on the officers part, that is very impressive. I'd like to share a beat with that guy for a night.

A6Gator
10-04-2011, 07:08
Excellent shooting by the officer, but this is a prime example of why I think one should always carry 24/7. It could have went the other way had he not been able to bring a gun into play somehow. He should have had one on his person, IMHO.

I agree 100%. He should buy a lottery ticket because he was pretty lucky going 4 vs 2 and none of the good guys got hurt. Good on him!

Dragoon44
10-04-2011, 07:10
I think a LEO should carry a real handgun and a reload 24/7, I know I do.

My thoughts and practice exactly, When I was a rookie I flirted with snubbies as primary off duty carry until one day I decided if tomorrow was the day I had to defend my life off duty I'd rather be doing it with a full size gun with extra reloads. From then on my off duty carry was what I carried on duty. ( Snub as a BUG off duty as well as on duty.)

DWARREN123
10-04-2011, 07:42
Don't be a thug and you will not get a dirt nap.

DaBigBR
10-04-2011, 09:23
Remember the first rule of gunfighting:

HAVE A GUN!

RetailNinja
10-04-2011, 09:31
I'm surprised to see that Chief Epperson is still in. I heard very bad things a long time back.

Props to Winnebago Co! Trained at PTI!

nitesite10mm
10-04-2011, 09:48
That off-duty cop was good no doubt. And tough. And lucky his friend had a sidearm the LEO could employ after a struggle over it. I hope the other three perps, as a result of their "life threatening wounds", have it as rough and brutally painful and horribly crippling as possible. I also pray that the justice system brings its full weight of special enhancements reigning down upon them. If they even survive.

Good shoot, Officer.

Nay, GREAT JOB, Officer.

Next time carry your own friggin gun, though.... (jes sayin)

Ajon412
10-04-2011, 10:38
I agree 100 % with the "Always carry off duty" philosophy, but it was never mentioned or referenced if the OD was armed or not. Maybe he was, not sure and I don't want to read too much into the article. The perp might just have been "that close" (bad breath distance) and it was easier to try to gain control of the BG's weapon then to utilize his own, or he just "reacted" based on his training and/or experience. Either way, it turned out well for the good guys and "not so good" for the perps....:supergrin:

Dragoon44
10-04-2011, 11:01
I am betting if the officer in question was not carrying Off duty before, he is now.

Nothing like having an "Oh ****!!! moment to clarify ones perspective.

strummer
10-04-2011, 11:12
I am betting if the officer in question was not carrying Off duty before, he is now.

Nothing like having an "Oh ****!!! moment to clarify ones perspective.


I don't know any more details that what has been published in the media...but word around here is that this guy's agency forbids off-duty carry.

If he was carrying...he could be looking at some sort of trick-bag.

BailRecoveryAgent
10-04-2011, 11:27
I don't know any more details that what has been published in the media...but word around here is that this guy's agency forbids off-duty carry.

If he was carrying...he could be looking at some sort of trick-bag.

What kind of numb nuts dick bag agency would forbid their officers from carrying off duty??? Then again, it is Illinois.:upeyes:

I'm glad it worked out the way it did. If indeed the agency forbids off duty carry, hopefully this incident will make them change that policy.

Ajon412
10-04-2011, 12:49
I don't know any more details that what has been published in the media...but word around here is that this guy's agency forbids off-duty carry.

If he was carrying...he could be looking at some sort of trick-bag.

Maybe this incident will change their minds......"EF" department policy, if that's the case..:steamed:..I'd rather violate policy and be alive after WINNING AN ARMED CONFRONTATION WITH FOUR PERPS then to "take a chance", follow policy and become a victim-officer....This OD copper had luck and/or training on his side. I wouldn't bet on it for the next time, but that's just me.....

IndyGunFreak
10-04-2011, 13:24
What kind of numb nuts dick bag agency would forbid their officers from carrying off duty??? Then again, it is Illinois.:upeyes:

I'm glad it worked out the way it did. If indeed the agency forbids off duty carry, hopefully this incident will make them change that policy.

Well, it is Illinois... :upeyes: If they truly don't want their Off Duty LEO's carrying a firearm, then someone needs their butt kicked while off duty cops watch.

People talk about the crazy gun laws in California... on paper, Illinois has always looked worse to me.. but I wouldn't want to live in either.

Glad the Officer is ok.

IGF

RVER
10-04-2011, 13:25
Nice.

BailRecoveryAgent
10-04-2011, 13:43
People talk about the crazy gun laws in California... on paper, Illinois has always looked worse to me.. but I wouldn't want to live in either.

Glad the Officer is ok.

IGF

Yeah, Kalifornia at least has a carry permit system, whether they issue them or not is another story. The weather is nicer in Kalifornia too.

As far as cops not carrying off duty, I texted a family member and asked him how many of his co workers carry off duty, and he said he'd be surprised if 10% of them do. He said most of them don't even own personal carry guns and that many of them believe "this is a safe city" and the odds of needing a gun off duty is so minimal that it isn't worth the hassle of carrying.

I wonder across the board what the percentage of cops don't carry off duty?

Ajon412
10-04-2011, 13:55
Yeah, Kalifornia at least has a carry permit system, whether they issue them or not is another story. The weather is nicer in Kalifornia too.

As far as cops not carrying off duty, I texted a family member and asked him how many of his co workers carry off duty, and he said he'd be surprised if 10% of them do. He said most of them don't even own personal carry guns and that many of them believe "this is a safe city" and the odds of needing a gun off duty is so minimal that it isn't worth the hassle of carrying.

I wonder across the board what the percentage of cops don't carry off duty?

To the first point, let me just say...:steamed:..:steamed:..:steamed:

These must be the same coppers who work "inside". Any road / patrol copper and /or corrections officer with half a brain and who deals with the dregs of society / bottom feeders and "victims" of crimes on a daily, heck even on a weekly basis can't really believe that "any" city is safe. No such place exists, although there are Cities that may be safer than others.....

I'm afraid your family members assessment of the 10% who carry OD may be accurate...THAT, is unfortunate.....:dunno:

Trigger Finger
10-04-2011, 14:11
Great shooting. I would give this guy free Pizza for life!!! And I would have a cardboard stand up made of him pointing a finger at everyone who came into the business!!

If the agency does not allow their officers to carry off duty that could be very bad and dangerous for the officer and his family. As someone said, I would carry anyway.

In L.A. I carried two and sometimes three guns on duty and one or two off duty and practiced allot. But that was the city of the damned so it's a little different. :supergrin:

Patchman
10-04-2011, 15:19
word around here is that this guy's agency forbids off-duty carry.

Huh? :wow:

Patchman
10-04-2011, 15:22
Excellent shooting by the officer, but this is a prime example of why I think one should always carry 24/7.

Yep. And make it your duty gun or it's equivalent.

collim1
10-04-2011, 18:07
My thoughts and practice exactly, When I was a rookie I flirted with snubbies as primary off duty carry until one day I decided if tomorrow was the day I had to defend my life off duty I'd rather be doing it with a full size gun with extra reloads. From then on my off duty carry was what I carried on duty. ( Snub as a BUG off duty as well as on duty.)

I gave up the snub off duty a couple of years ago for the same reason. I have gotten used to the P239 and a spare mag 24/7

KiloBravo
10-04-2011, 18:40
I gave up the snub off duty a couple of years ago for the same reason. I have gotten used to the P239 and a spare mag 24/7

I am not an officer, but I am with you and Dragoon in this! I carry my G17, spare mag, and a Smith 642 for a BUG everywhere I go. I also carry a crap load of other things too. I guess that I am a bit of a gear head in more ways than one. :supergrin:

Line Rider
10-04-2011, 20:31
Good job to the officer. :supergrin:

I carry a full size gun off duty as well a double mag pouch. Usually I have a BUG and a share ammo for it with me. Yes, I've heard all the jokes about carrying. Also, I have a some type of lock blade knife.


It's not the thug who know me that I'm watching for, it's the one who don't know me I watch for.

pilsbury
10-04-2011, 20:38
Well done X 4.

4Baldy
10-04-2011, 20:39
I'd sure buy that officer a beer for a job well done...:thumbsup:

scottydl
10-05-2011, 07:25
Give that guy a pat on the back! And a medal while you're at it!

I went to the academy several years ago with a Winnebago Co. guy. Not this officer as it was almost 10 years ago, but seems like a good dept. Nothing in Illinois law prohibits LEO's from carrying whenever/wherever they want (as I do), but who knows what individual department policies may say.

ClydeG19
10-05-2011, 09:30
The only bad part of the story is that all 4 thugs didn't die.

Arvinator
10-05-2011, 09:43
As a cop, I carry off duty a J frame snub, backed up by usually a Glock 19 9mm with one reload...I also carry often a can of OC spray.
Most cops I know do NOT always carry off duty, and I think that is not smart.

Ajon412
10-05-2011, 21:41
Update:

http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/4476748-Officer-suspects-IDd-in-heroic-robbery-response/


Deputy Frank Pobjecky was not officially on the clock when one of the four suspects pointed a gun at him on Saturday night, but he managed to grab a firearm out of an employee's waistband and use it to shoot the suspects and stop the robbery.

Because Pobjecky acted quickly despite lacking a weapon, backup, and other resources that would have been available to an on-duty officer, the incident is especially noteworthy, police officials said.

Citizens, too, are thankful for Pobjecky, who is a 29-year-old U.S. Army veteran who served a tour of duty in Iraq before joining the county police 3½ years ago.

.....:thumbsup:...Again, job well done....

scottydl
10-06-2011, 07:16
Under what circumstances did the PIZZA EMPLOYEE have a gun in his waistband? Remember this was Illinois, no citizen carry except in extremely rare circumstances.

m2hmghb
10-06-2011, 12:53
Under what circumstances did the PIZZA EMPLOYEE have a gun in his waistband? Remember this was Illinois, no citizen carry except in extremely rare circumstances.

Most states that ban concealed carry have an exemption for your house and place of business. At least NJ does.

TKOFaith
10-06-2011, 14:03
Am I the only one that finds it a bit odd that one of the BG's, with "life threatening injuries" was shot in the ***. The dude must be ALL ***!:rofl:

Ajon412
10-24-2011, 20:54
Update...The off duty Deputy was cleared by a Grand Jury:

http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/4540252-Court-Cops-heroic-response-at-pizza-restaurant-justified/

:supergrin:

janice6
10-24-2011, 20:57
Hooray!!! We got another hero.

Hack
10-24-2011, 21:09
Update...The off duty Deputy was cleared by a Grand Jury:

http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/4540252-Court-Cops-heroic-response-at-pizza-restaurant-justified/

:supergrin:

Very good!:cool:

Andy W
10-24-2011, 21:48
If the department forbids officer's carrying off duty, that's both an officer safety and a public safety issue? Would the officer, assisted by the local police union, have any grounds to sue the department for the right to carry off duty?

Jeff82
10-24-2011, 22:33
Great job by the officer, excepting not having his own gun.

As most officers don't carry 24/7, most will not attend any extra firearms training beyond quals either.

Snowman92D
10-24-2011, 23:33
If the department forbids officer's carrying off duty, that's both an officer safety and a public safety issue? Would the officer, assisted by the local police union, have any grounds to sue the department for the right to carry off duty?

I called a guy I know with that agency, Andy. He said it is officer's discretion to carry off-duty there.

South Fla
10-25-2011, 00:18
My thoughts and practice exactly, When I was a rookie I flirted with snubbies as primary off duty carry until one day I decided if tomorrow was the day I had to defend my life off duty I'd rather be doing it with a full size gun with extra reloads. From then on my off duty carry was what I carried on duty. ( Snub as a BUG off duty as well as on duty.)

When I was a young pup, most of the guys I worked with carried subbies also.

They laughed at me when I carried a Colt Commander .45acp then a S&W 645.

They said that the guns were too big to carry and "fool with" off-duty.

The day I retired, and every day since, I have been carrying a Sig P220 .45 acp.

Sometimes I carry an HK USP.40C.

nitesite10mm
10-25-2011, 00:19
I think the officer's courage was absolutely amazing and I hope he gets public recognition, departmental commendations and is able to take some well-deserved time off.

But LEOs generally don't OD carry 'round there? Wow.

Other than being on some airline flights and several cruises, I cannot recall the last time I didn't have a sidearm on (or very near to) me. Maybe his actions will spark a general re-think in his region.

Great job, officer!

crzn01
10-25-2011, 06:03
I have over 30 yrs in law enforcement & the depts. I worked, you were a police officer 24/7 you carried 24/7. What kind of depts now a days can say you can not carry if you are off duty? Things sure have changed, I just don't get it............................

m2hmghb
10-25-2011, 06:44
I have over 30 yrs in law enforcement & the depts. I worked, you were a police officer 24/7 you carried 24/7. What kind of depts now a days can say you can not carry if you are off duty? Things sure have changed, I just don't get it............................

Some depts do not allow you to carry off duty as well.

A6Gator
10-25-2011, 08:45
I called a guy I know with that agency, Andy. He said it is officer's discretion to carry off-duty there.

I'm betting his "discretion" has changed...:supergrin:

Snowman92D
10-25-2011, 11:42
Let's hope so. You gotta admit one thing, though, that boy is a barn-burner once he gets a gun and gets goin'. I see some real potential there. :thumbsup:

series1811
10-25-2011, 11:45
Excellent shooting by the officer, but this is a prime example of why I think one should always carry 24/7. It could have went the other way had he not been able to bring a gun into play somehow. He should have had one on his person, IMHO.

Yeah, you have definitely put yourself at a disadvantage when you have to find a gun somewhere after the gunfight has started.

Hack
10-25-2011, 21:04
Yeah, you have definitely put yourself at a disadvantage when you have to find a gun somewhere after the gunfight has started.

:agree:

FL-obiwan
10-26-2011, 13:19
If he "has discretion", then maybe this "oh ****" moment changed his mind. If the Dept forbids it, doesn't he have the authority under HR218/LEOSA to carry anyway?
I think that the 10% number is right. In my Agency, it may be a little high. I always tell the new pups that at very least they should get the State license. That way they're covered under our Agency authorization (with our issued weapon), LEOSA (with any semi-auto) and State license (anything that they can legally carry).
I truly don't understand "going nekkid" in the world considering the number of bad guys that we deal with.....:dunno:

scottydl
10-26-2011, 13:28
If the Dept forbids it, doesn't he have the authority under HR218/LEOSA to carry anyway?

Legal authority, perhaps, but departments are permitted to further restrict LEO's carry rights. (Kinda like how a city ordinance can enforce a violation that is otherwise allowed by state law.) If he knowingly violates department rules/regs then they can have his job for that, and he is civilly liable for any actions taken in violation of policy. Of course it means he is still alive, which is a calculated decision that must be risked.

DustyJacket
10-26-2011, 13:38
Denver PD required you to carry a badge and gun off duty.

There was an LT who went to a convenience store for some milk, the store got robbed while he was there. He ended up running over the bad guy with his car and bought a suspension for not having his gun.

He was cleared on running the bad guy over with his car, though.

steveksux
10-26-2011, 21:05
Denver PD required you to carry a badge and gun off duty.

There was an LT who went to a convenience store for some milk, the store got robbed while he was there. He ended up running over the bad guy with his car and bought a suspension for not having his gun.

He was cleared on running the bad guy over with his car, though.

What's the #1 rule?

Never bring a gun to a car fight....

Randy

DaBigBR
10-26-2011, 22:42
What's the #1 rule?

Never bring a gun to a car fight....

Randy

I love it. I hammer the "your car is a weapon" point home at a couple points when training new folks, so I'll make sure to start adding that line.

madcitycop
10-27-2011, 13:08
I love that one person who clearly has no idea what this department does actually spurred comments about how dumb the agency and IL is. They most certainly are allowed to carry off duty. Anybody stop to think for a second that he was at a buddys pizza joint, whats a favorite beverage with pizza, oh yeah a beer so maybe this cop took a couple minutes off to enjoy himself in public with his buddy and have a beer with some pizza. Beer = no gun. So after realizing that he didnt have his gun put himself in place to resolve the scenario in a fashion that most "I carry 24/7 and spend lots of time at the range" people would never in a million years attempt. This may have also at some point worked to his advantage as those of you who think that going for your gun first thing is the right tactical move may well find yourself shot with your hand on your gun and maybe if youre lucky clear of leather.

madcitycop
10-27-2011, 13:11
I have over 30 yrs in law enforcement & the depts. I worked, you were a police officer 24/7 you carried 24/7. What kind of depts now a days can say you can not carry if you are off duty? Things sure have changed, I just don't get it............................

yeah ive seen some of those guys at the bar. Watched one of them fall off his barstool and watched his snubby slide across the floor. He then proceeded to stand up and get back on his stool. I walked over picked up his snubby unloaded it and set it on the bar in front of him and left. ahh the good old days...

madcitycop
10-27-2011, 13:13
I'm surprised to see that Chief Epperson is still in. I heard very bad things a long time back.

Props to Winnebago Co! Trained at PTI!

Everyone is. He's currently working under a vote of no confidence but he's the mayors lacky so he's good until he wants to go.