Vest expired, bought personal and now denied to use it. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DoogieHowser
10-04-2011, 07:15
Our undershirt vests expired awhile ago and I bought my own ceramic vest as ours were only lv2 to begin with. This allowed me to add rifle protection by throwing that vest on in an as needed basis.

We had an all hands respond call for a student with a gun inside an eating facility threatening to shoot an employee. I work for a private college, I responded and was second on scene threw on vest and we took care of the call. Another officer who has a blatant dislike for me took it upon himself to go to the Chief about my vest knowing full well our Sgt didn't care. I get called into the office today and told that I need to ensure that all patches and badge are displayed while wearing said vest. I said not a problem that was already being done, escaped from the office and thought I was set. Get another phone call stating that the Chief explicitly forbade my use of the vest for any reason and do not let it ever enter any of our vehicles.

FML seriously!? I've got a wife and a kid coming in 3 weeks. :steamed:

Dragoon44
10-04-2011, 07:25
Their argument will be it looks to "aggressive" or "military". Might make some of the libtards on campus heads explode if they see it.


You got a Wife and kid coming in 2 weeks? was that a package deal from Amazon?

"Customers who bought this (wife) also bought this (Baby) get both for a discounted price."

:tongueout::wavey:

merlynusn
10-04-2011, 07:28
Then you should demand them provide you with the appropriate vest.

You can always mention that if you get hurt because of a lack of safety equipment when you have yours readily available, will result in a $50 million lawsuit against them.

I guess that tactic would depend on your status there. But you could casually mention it to someone within earshot of the Chief.

razdog76
10-04-2011, 07:28
Every agency has at least one of those type of coworkers. They are best handled by only associating with them by handling calls with them, and not talking to them outside of that.

People on college campuses are easily frightened by looking too tactical, but on the other hand it would be easy to remind how expensive it will become if you are wounded/killed while wearing their expired vest. One of the few places more political than a Sheriff's Office.

Seems like it probably would have been better to buy a concealable IIIa (out of sight, out of mind).

Mayhem like Me
10-04-2011, 07:41
I would suggest that the wife write a letter to whomever pays the chief...Board of reagents or similar body of do gooders..

Letter should use big words like OUTDATED.. EXPIRED... LIABILITY...NEGLIGENCE...ATTORNEY...

DoogieHowser
10-04-2011, 07:53
Fail... at least it was some humor :faint:I have a wife, (Comma) and a daughter born in roughly in 3 weeks.

Agreed, should have got a concealed 3a but that still doesn't protect against rifle, there I go again trying to be pro-active and becoming the nail that sticks up to be hammered again. It was cheaper actually to go ceramic got a great deal from a guy that sells at a discount to LE.

My wife is going to be pretty pissed when she finds out, I think I might get her to write a letter. I'll have to make sure I go through appropriate channels first just to CYA, I can't afford to be fired for something like this, my wife would be better off with the insurance check.

GackMan
10-04-2011, 10:02
Maybe get them to put in writing why they are forcing you to wear an expired piece of protective equipment.


Agreed, should have got a concealed 3a but that still doesn't protect against rifle

The 3A doesn't sit in your car 99% of the time either.

DoogieHowser
10-04-2011, 10:15
Maybe get them to put in writing why they are forcing you to wear an expired piece of protective equipment.

The 3A doesn't sit in your car 99% of the time either.

True True, :embarassed: I'm waiting on an e-mail from them now so I can give the writing to my wife.

Hack
10-04-2011, 10:21
Your boss if full of dung, if he thinks that their department can weather a law suit after you have tried all appropriate remedies to rectify this situation. Try out any grievance process that you have, and notify any governing agency that governs your college.

Dragoon44
10-04-2011, 11:04
No surprise that the Chief responded as he did, University Police Chiefs are more political shills than even your run of the mill talking head chief. They will always fall in line with the far left perspective of their masters and be more concerned with appearances than effectiveness.

Wil Ufgood
10-04-2011, 11:27
Just curious, does your department have a written policy stating that personally purchased vests are prohibited?

Your boss sounds like a class A ******.

ateamer
10-04-2011, 12:46
I'd start keeping book on the ******* coworker and go straight to the university president and press after you have enough screwups documented. Those kind of rats are almost always idiots who have always gotten away with a lot of little things but have their noses so far up the chief's ass that it's been allowed to slide.

If they want to screw with you, show them what it's like to play with a pro.

Ajon412
10-04-2011, 13:08
Our undershirt vests expired awhile ago and I bought my own ceramic vest as ours were only lv2 to begin with. This allowed me to add rifle protection by throwing that vest on in an as needed basis.

We had an all hands respond call for a student with a gun inside an eating facility threatening to shoot an employee. I work for a private college, I responded and was second on scene threw on vest and we took care of the call. Another officer who has a blatant dislike for me took it upon himself to go to the Chief about my vest knowing full well our Sgt didn't care. I get called into the office today and told that I need to ensure that all patches and badge are displayed while wearing said vest. I said not a problem that was already being done, escaped from the office and thought I was set. Get another phone call stating that the Chief explicitly forbade my use of the vest for any reason and do not let it ever enter any of our vehicles. FML seriously!? I've got a wife and a kid coming in 3 weeks. :steamed:

First issue...It appears that your co-worker (cheese eater) needs to be spoken to and dealt with on your level......:whistling:

Second issue....I would respectfully request that your supervisors (Sgt to Chief) put this in writing. Maybe their attitude will change, maybe it won't, but your Chief should be put on notice. Are you represented by a Union or is your position with the University a non-union / management position? (I feel your pain)..The bottom line is that I'd wear it anyway..Maybe next time, you could just throw a "Raid Jacket" over it, only if it's authorized, of course...:rofl:...Who's to know....:whistling:...Remember, it's your safety and your life. You owe it to your wife and child...

RVER
10-04-2011, 14:02
Gotta say - do what every other guy advised so far. Good luck. Hopefully your empty sack co-worker doesn't fall down a flight of stairs a couple of times... With winter almost here things tend to get a little slippery, that's all.

Snowman92D
10-04-2011, 17:14
...there I go again trying to be pro-active and becoming the nail that sticks up to be hammered again.

My wife is going to be pretty pissed when she finds out, I think I might get her to write a letter.

I hate to run counter to much of the otherwise excellent advice you're being given here, but I have to ask. Are you a young guy just starting out in your career? If so, I'm assuming that you're looking to use your campus PD job as a stepping stone to a more "involved" job in LE. If that's true, do yourself a favor: If your wife complains, smile and tell her welcome to office politics. It's your turn in the barrel and she needs to get used to it.

If you're a school cop, you are a necessary evil that is barely tolerated...and I mean barely...and your mere presence on campus sticks in the craw of the president and his board of regents. Bank on that. They're liberals who live in academia, which has no relationship with the reality that you base your reasoning on. Going around the chief to the president, or one of the regents, or an alumnus that you know will get you pegged as a trouble-maker and make you a bigger target than a cop is on an average day.

The campus hierarchy doesn't understand your reality, or anyone else's for that matter. They reject reality, yours and everyone else's. Reality, and anybody who deals in reality, makes them feel very uncomfortable...and their impulse is to brush away anything that makes them feel uncomfortable. Policemen make them feel uncomfortable because you represent that 'reality' that they can't manage to spit out or swallow. Remember, the chief is their boy. He wouldn't have that job unless he was a sweep-it-under-the-rug type who is willing to let them bounce him like a basketball at their board meetings.

It's your choice...all I'm saying is don't start a pissing contest that you may well lose. Just bide your time and move on to a better job when it comes available. Those people will never change and if you harbor any belief that the "academic community" will come to the "consensus" that there is a reality somewhere, other than their own, you'll find police work to be a bitter disappointment. Maybe you ought to let it ride for a couple of weeks and give it time to settle in your mind before deciding which way to go. Jobs are hard to come by right now, especially if you aren't an affirmative action candidate.

Abdul and Rasheed are coming. Plus we have upcoming social trouble like nothing we've seen since the late 1960's, and a generation of people in this country for whom the word "no" has all but been erased. Obama's people won't be content to simply steal all the silverware when they have to leave the White House, like Bill Clinton's people did. They're not gonna go without taking the country down with them. We need guys like you who live in reality. Who can deal with people who deal in extremes. All of us here have been tossed in the barrel on more than one occasion on this job. This won't be last time for you, and I'm guessing it ain't the first. We understand the fix you're in. I'd just hate to see you become disillusioned or embittered by a group of people who aren't worth it right now. :beer:

steveksux
10-04-2011, 18:39
FML seriously!? I've got a wife ... coming in 3 weeks. :steamed:
I know how you feel, my wife needs a lot of foreplay too...

Randy

IGotIt
10-04-2011, 18:49
I hate to run counter to much of the otherwise excellent advice you're being given here, but I have to ask. Are you a young guy just starting out in your career? If so, I'm assuming that you're looking to use your campus PD job as a stepping stone to a more "involved" job in LE. If that's true, do yourself a favor: If your wife complains, smile and tell her welcome to office politics. It's your turn in the barrel and she needs to get used to it.

If you're a school cop, you are a necessary evil that is barely tolerated...and I mean barely...and your mere presence on campus sticks in the craw of the president and his board of regents. Bank on that. They're liberals who live in academia, which has no relationship with the reality that you base your reasoning on. Going around the chief to the president, or one of the regents, or an alumnus that you know will get you pegged as a trouble-maker and make you a bigger target than a cop is on an average day.

The campus hierarchy doesn't understand your reality, or anyone else's for that matter. They reject reality, yours and everyone else's. Reality, and anybody who deals in reality, makes them feel very uncomfortable...and their impulse is to brush away anything that makes them feel uncomfortable. Policemen make them feel uncomfortable because you represent that 'reality' that they can't manage to spit out or swallow. Remember, the chief is their boy. He wouldn't have that job unless he was a sweep-it-under-the-rug type who is willing to let them bounce him like a basketball at their board meetings.

It's your choice...all I'm saying is don't start a pissing contest that you may well lose. Just bide your time and move on to a better job when it comes available. Those people will never change and if you harbor any belief that the "academic community" will come to the "consensus" that there is a reality somewhere, other than their own, you'll find police work to be a bitter disappointment. Maybe you ought to let it ride for a couple of weeks and give it time to settle in your mind before deciding which way to go. Jobs are hard to come by right now, especially if you aren't an affirmative action candidate.

Abdul and Rasheed are coming. Plus we have upcoming social trouble like nothing we've seen since the late 1960's, and a generation of people in this country for whom the word "no" has all but been erased. We need guys like you who live in reality. Who can deal with people who deal in extremes. All of us here have been tossed in the barrel on more than one occasion on this job. This won't be last time for you, and I'm guessing it ain't the first. We understand the fix your in. I'd just hate to see you become disillusioned or embittered by a group of people who aren't worth it right now. :beer:


+1, AND, go a bit slower to those gun calls. Let Officer Tell the Chief get there first. Be safe, not sorry. You'll have many more gun calls in your career.

blueberry1177
10-04-2011, 20:02
Good for you man. (hippie voice) Fight the oppressive power that those Hippocrates force on you!

In all seriousness I'm glad your doing something about it. Officer safety is numero uno #1 you make sure you go home to your family every night, we're not paid to be shot

lawman800
10-05-2011, 00:46
Wow, that is some class A bull ****.

scottydl
10-05-2011, 07:16
You might want to schedule a meeting with the Chief to talk about the issue calmly and professionally. The #1 topic should be the fact that your vest is expired, which in turn explains the reason you purchased your own. Don't bring up your personal issues with other co-worker unless the conversation leads you there.

I can't see why you'd get fired for a single issue like this unless you repeatedly disobey department orders, and are disciplined repeatedly.

Meanwhile, start looking for a new LE job if you're not already doing so.

DoogieHowser
10-05-2011, 11:49
Whoo boy, it's good to vent some... I'm approaching things a bit more calmly now and the e-mail I sent through the chain just got bumped to the Chief. The LT called me and told me that he isn't putting anything into writing asking if I was really sure about bumping it to the chief. He asked if it being expired was really a big deal....:upeyes:

No letters to anyone I'm sortof on the list already, plus it really wouldn't be effective much like a few of you have stated. College PD's are a different world and we have been getting chopped down every year, down 30 officers over the last 3yrs. 10 positions open for the last 6mo and no one hired. The entire department is about to lose it as it is, it's been an unending jerk around as we've gone through 3 chiefs in the last 4 years. The latest is an undiagnosed bi-polar so e-mail is often the best way as he doesn't play well with others.I've learned to leave alone the other officers attempts to get me in trouble, ignoring him is often the best medicine.

We have no union and it's a right to hire state so I have to be somewhat careful I'm in the office fairly regularly as my political skills are limited along with my PC abilities.

@Snowman you sound like you know exactly where I'm coming from. I test with the local FD on Friday and that would be a welcome change. Your right on the money for bitterness, my entire department is festering right now and half the battle is keeping the other guys from *****ing so much that it brings us all down. Lord knows I'm right in there with them some days. I have people occasionally that ask me about hiring opportunities and in the past I would often warn them away from our department because of the internal issues but I had another person ask me last night. He's the sole worker in his family, working at Chik-fil-a and they have him working just under 40hrs so he doesn't have any benefits. 18k a year and a child due Nov 12th living with his in-laws. Puts things into perspective.

razdog76
10-05-2011, 11:58
First issue...It appears that your co-worker (cheese eater) needs to be spoken to and dealt with on your level......:whistling:

Second issue....I would respectfully request that your supervisors (Sgt to Chief) put this in writing. Maybe their attitude will change, maybe it won't, but your Chief should be put on notice. Are you represented by a Union or is your position with the University a non-union / management position? (I feel your pain)..The bottom line is that I'd wear it anyway..Maybe next time, you could just throw a "Raid Jacket" over it, only if it's authorized, of course...:rofl:...Who's to know....:whistling:...Remember, it's your safety and your life. You owe it to your wife and child...

I'd start keeping book on the ******* coworker and go straight to the university president and press after you have enough screwups documented. Those kind of rats are almost always idiots who have always gotten away with a lot of little things but have their noses so far up the chief's ass that it's been allowed to slide.

If they want to screw with you, show them what it's like to play with a pro.

You might want to schedule a meeting with the Chief to talk about the issue calmly and professionally. The #1 topic should be the fact that your vest is expired, which in turn explains the reason you purchased your own. Don't bring up your personal issues with other co-worker unless the conversation leads you there.

I can't see why you'd get fired for a single issue like this unless you repeatedly disobey department orders, and are disciplined repeatedly.

Meanwhile, start looking for a new LE job if you're not already doing so.

Saying anything to the snitch, will only put him on guard, and he won't care what you think because he is seeking approval from a higher source. Just make sure you and the rest of your coworkers know that he places more emphasis on his own interests than your collective safety.

I will bet that nothing will happen to the Chief's snitch, no matter what you document, and attempting to discuss, what the Chief will believe is a clear order, will probably sit in his craw like two day old food from Taco Bell.

blueberry1177
10-05-2011, 21:32
sorry to hear your situation, I hope all goes well with your plans and it's a shame that you guys don't seem to have much of a morale boost.

Maybe you could try to get a grant for newer vests if you have the motivation.

good luck and stay safe

DoogieHowser
10-06-2011, 08:39
Well I got my two sentence reply, "Checked with manufacturer only the warranty is expired they should still work..."

Well I've done what I could if I keep pushing at this point I'll have more issues than I could handle at the moment. Thanks for the discourse everyone.


If anyone has experience with grant applications I would be grateful for a PM about it. It is highly likely that we do not qualify as we are a private college PD. HR214 does not apply to any officer that works here nor do a lot of the other government regulation due to our private non-government status. Half our dept are armed security (some medics) the other half are PO's. Everyone wears the same uni and gear they just have a different patch and badge. We all respond to the same calls we just try and let the PO's make the arrest though security has the authority to do so. It's a bit like reserve officers in some states.

53Buck
10-06-2011, 09:37
Dude, what a mess.
FWIW, I've confirmed that the info from your chain of command is true. The expiration date of your vest represents the end of the warranty. It will not turn into a pumpkin on midnight on that date. When we were testing our new issue ammo, we shot a pile of ballistic panels from vests that had been expired for years. All of them still performed, stopped bullets, etc. Hopefully, that will help you and your young bride sleep better at night. I can't justify the expense for a full set of ceramic plates for my go vest, so I settled on a pair of these: http://www.safariland.com/bodyarmor/impac-plates.aspx . They're made to fit in trauma plate pouches on most vest carriers, and light enough so I can wear them all day. They're not rated to defeat rifle rounds, but they will augment the hell out of my IIIa vest.
As for the political situation you're stuck in: Lay in the cut and start putting your energy into getting a better job. When I first started working for the public sector, an older boy gave me this advice:
Before you start making waves, be sure of where they're going to take you.
Sounds like you don't have much future at your current department anyway. I know that principles (and facts, and reason, etc) are on your side, but why start a pissing match with people that may be writing the letters of recommendation to your next bigger-and-better job?
Lay in the cut, do your job, and stay focused on what matters: your family's future. That said, I heard about some guys that carry all manner of unapproved and even prohibited "oh **** gear" at work. They do it knowing full well that its not allowed, and that if they ever had to use it, the **** had better have hit the fan pretty hard, because they'll be expected to justify it.
Be safe out there.

larry_minn
10-06-2011, 23:50
Dang sorry to hear this. As said a expired vest will likely work just as well a yr after its (date) as it did a yr before. (assuming it was not soaked in acid) I still have my old vest. Its a decade (old) its still better then a T-shirt. :0

As said Univ. Security/Police is another animal. When I was doing it... It was not unknown for rapes to be "covered up" The "former" student was counciled by Univ. spokesman about how terrible the exam, questioning, testifying, etc would be. How its better to get "cleaned up/out" and get all tuition refunded, go home till ready....
I got in a bit of hot water over that. Thing is I had transfered to another Univ. at the time so they had not control over my actions. :)

With family on way/job market you are smart to be looking for something better.

DoogieHowser
10-08-2011, 17:36
Dang sorry to hear this. As said a expired vest will likely work just as well a yr after its (date) as it did a yr before. (assuming it was not soaked in acid) I still have my old vest. Its a decade (old) its still better then a T-shirt. :0

As said Univ. Security/Police is another animal. When I was doing it... It was not unknown for rapes to be "covered up" The "former" student was counciled by Univ. spokesman about how terrible the exam, questioning, testifying, etc would be. How its better to get "cleaned up/out" and get all tuition refunded, go home till ready....
I got in a bit of hot water over that. Thing is I had transfered to another Univ. at the time so they had not control over my actions. :)

With family on way/job market you are smart to be looking for something better.

Sounds like you worked for my department!

lawman800
10-09-2011, 00:15
It's like that at every department that is extra... Which is almost everything but municipalities like cities and counties and even some cities, the police are just one event from being contracted out.

ateamer
10-09-2011, 04:46
Dang sorry to hear this. As said a expired vest will likely work just as well a yr after its (date) as it did a yr before. (assuming it was not soaked in acid) I still have my old vest. Its a decade (old) its still better then a T-shirt. :0

As said Univ. Security/Police is another animal. When I was doing it... It was not unknown for rapes to be "covered up" The "former" student was counciled by Univ. spokesman about how terrible the exam, questioning, testifying, etc would be. How its better to get "cleaned up/out" and get all tuition refunded, go home till ready....
I got in a bit of hot water over that. Thing is I had transfered to another Univ. at the time so they had not control over my actions. :)

With family on way/job market you are smart to be looking for something better.
At what agency were you a sworn peace officer?

lawman800
10-09-2011, 11:10
U Minn PD?