The Confusing World of ATF. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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roadgrader
10-06-2011, 11:53
I bought a G19 from Glockernaut, great guy to deal with, and it came in today at my FFL's. Here's where it gets involved. Glockernaut had sent the gun direct to my FFL dealer. My guy says I can't get the gun because it didn't come from an FFL. So, I called Glockernaut and he immediately ran down to his gun shop that gave him the info to send direct and they called my guy. After talking to Glockernaut's guy, my guy calls the ATF. They finally admitted YOU CAN SEND YOUR GUN DIRECT TO THE BUYER'S FFL DEALER.

The short of it is this; Glockernaut is a great guy to deal with, he goes the extra mile, and the gun is better than advertised. My thanks to Glockernaut.

Jerry
10-06-2011, 13:45
Glad it worked out for you. That’s the sort of things that are happening since they let the inmates run the asylum. BATF&E can't keep up with their own rules.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. " -Ayn Rand

Welcome to the world BATF&E is creating. :steamed:

1gewehr
10-07-2011, 05:56
Sorry, this is not an ATF issue. Your FFL is an idiot.

Jerry
10-07-2011, 11:39
Sorry, this is not an ATF issue. Your FFL is an idiot.

After talking to Glockernaut's guy, my guy calls the ATF. They finally admitted YOU CAN SEND YOUR GUN DIRECT TO THE BUYER'S FFL DEALER.

Have you ever read any of the doubletalk “regulations” BATF&E has written? Have you ever spoken to BATF&E to try to get clarification? I have! After I spoke with them on two occasions about two different matters I was no better off after I spoke to them than I was before I called.

Yes the FFL should have known. However, the way BATF&E has been going after people the last few years who can blame the FFL for being afraid of doing the wrong thing. Hell even when people don’t do the wrong thing BATF&E manufactures a “false” case against them and gets them convicted.

1gewehr
10-08-2011, 07:42
Have you ever read any of the doubletalk “regulations” BATF&E has written? Have you ever spoken to BATF&E to try to get clarification? I have! After I spoke with them on two occasions about two different matters I was no better off after I spoke to them than I was before I called.

Yes the FFL should have known. However, the way BATF&E has been going after people the last few years who can blame the FFL for being afraid of doing the wrong thing. Hell even when people don’t do the wrong thing BATF&E manufactures a “false” case against them and gets them convicted.

Yes, i have spoken to ATF. I've been an FFL, own NFA weapons, and have a C&R license. I've spoken to them numerous times. Sure a lot of the laws are confusing. In this instance it isn't. An FFL is required to RECEIVE a firearm across state lines.

As for worrying about ATF manufacturing a case, that's been going on for over fifty years. Look up 'ATF abuses' with Google. Try 'ATF kittens' if you want a truly appalling case from the 1990's. Unless they can prove you intended to break the law, you will probably end up getting a nice settlement from the Feds if they engage in that type of behaviour.

Bottom line, any FFL should know the law on this. But hey, at least he's not engaged in a truly suspicious activity like using imported rosewood to make guitars!

Jerry
10-08-2011, 12:47
As for worrying about ATF manufacturing a case, that's been going on for over fifty years. Look up 'ATF abuses' with Google. Try 'ATF kittens' if you want a truly appalling case from the 1990's. Unless they can prove you intended to break the law, you will probably end up getting a nice settlement from the Feds if they engage in that type of behaviour.

Nope! Wrong! I've seen it done three times locally. I’ve also seen them bankrupt businesses. I was going to become an FFL in the 1970s. The ATF raided a local man’s home, destroyed his safe, after he told them he would open it, arrested him, after not finding anything illegal and prosecuted him for having an automatic weapon that he never had. All because a snitch told them he had one. Yes he “FINALLY” beat the charges. After spending $$$$$$$$$ on lawyers. I suppose you would call that winning. I call it a deliberate theft of a person’s time and money. He sued! The case was thrown out on a technically. Changed my mind real fast about getting an FFL. I want nothing to do with ATF.

Even when following the rules, if ATF gets a bur under its saddle you’re going to pay.

Haven’t ever heard of anyone getting reimbursed much less being rewarded pain and suffering.

I wonder why the OP wrote, “They finally admitted YOU CAN SEND YOUR GUN DIRECT TO THE BUYER'S FFL DEALER.” I wonder what led him to believe it couldn’t be done. Agents tell shop owners all sorts of BS and if the FFL doest do what they say, even though its BS they prosecute.