Had 2 (TWO!) squibs today. possibly due to over-crimping? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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eb1ch
10-09-2011, 18:06
I have loaded about 9k rounds of 9mm on my 550, and while I have had one likely overcharge leading to a Kb, I had not experienced a squib yet.

But I'll start at the beginning.

I was loading up rounds yesterday when I hear a click, and something fall behind my work bench. I then notice this-

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp15/ebtromba/photobucket-2656-1318204562106.jpg

looks like I lost the pin the holds the Dillon sizing/depriming die together.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp15/ebtromba/photobucket-5879-1318204573498.jpg

I think. hmmm. I never could find it. though I am assuming it broke, and I never found it. anyhow, I'll call them tomorrow.

since I really wanted to shoot today, I switched it out with the 9mm Lee die I have sort of kept in reserve. I pop the sizing die in and we're good to go. I load up a couple dummy rounds and they don't seem to go all the way in my case gauge.

I then think its something to do with the 2 different brands of dies not playing nice together. so I decide to switch out the dillon crimp die for the Lee crimp die also.

In calibrating the die, I believe I over-crimped the rounds, causing the 2 squibs out of roughly 40 rounds out of this batch I shot. I'm pissed that I was dumb enough to have 1 squib, and then switch to another gun and have it happen again. ugh.

QUESTIONS
1. I left the dillon seating die in place, not feeling like switching it out for the Lee seating die. I figured all it does is seat the bullet to a given depth and there would be no functional difference between the two dies. this didn't contribute to my troubles today, did it?

2. Of course is possible that one or both my squibs have to do with undercharged loads/zero powder loads. To me this is unlikely, since I have gotten in the habit of checking for powder before I place a bullet, and the aforementioned 9k rounds of previous powder inserting success.
Having said that, what happens when a 9mm with no powder is fired? does the primer have the force to sufficiently lodge the bullet in the bore?

3. also, the cases I ejected after the squibs occurred were pretty burnt up, which leads me to believe there in fact was the normal amount of powder in there. as previously mentioned, since I have no experience with this I don't know.

4. I hope my G17 barrel is ok. I always thought these popped out relatively easily, and I asked the range officer if they had a squib rod. well, it wouldn't just push out, so he takes a hammer and starts beating on the rod before I really have a chance to think about it. I guess thats what the gunsmith is going to try and do when I take it to him tomorrow, but still...I knowingly yet some yahoo pound on my barrel and didn't really voice much concern...I just wanted to get back to shooting. Obviously I didn't, as its jammed in there really solid.

thoughts?

GioaJack
10-09-2011, 18:14
Over crimping will not cause a squib, it can lead to a variety of other problems but not a squib.

You have something else going on.

If you've loaded and shot nine-thousand rounds the questions you've asked really should be second nature to you by now. A little time with some reloading related books might elevate your reloading experience.


Jack

eb1ch
10-09-2011, 18:16
appreciate the insight on what can't cause a squib.

so I assume mean I somehow ****ed up twice with light/zero powder charge? man. pretty humbling.

eb1ch
10-09-2011, 18:19
OH I just thought of something else.

Magtech primers. I have exactly one box of magtech primers and it was cracked open starting with this batch. is it possible they were somehow at fault?

they seem to seat extremely easy. maybe they don't ignite the powder quick enough?

Glockin26
10-09-2011, 18:26
I would think if there's powder in the casing and the primer ignites, the bullet will exit. If the primer fails to ignite, its a fail to fire and the bullet is still seated in the casing. I don't know of anything else that would cause a squib other than a super light/undercharged load or no powder load. You said you made two dummy rounds. Could those be the ones you tossed in your ammo box on accident?

sgtlmj
10-09-2011, 18:31
I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds on a Dillon and various other equipment and never had an overcharge or a squib or a kb. For handgun loads I use a Dillon size die, and everything else is Lee. I like their final-size-crimp die in the deluxe sets.

Your problems are likely in the powder measure dept. A primer by itself is quite energetic and would be enough to jam a bullet in the bore. Break down your powder measure and make sure nothing is gunked up or that lube has gotten in there somehow. The powder you are using may be bridging and causing light loads.

I stepped up to an XL650 mainly so I'd have the powder check function. Auto indexing and everything else it does is nice too, but the powder check is peace of mind.

GioaJack
10-09-2011, 18:31
No reason for it to be humbling, it happens to everyone. There are only two kinds of loaders, those who have had a squib... and those who are going to have a squib.

If the bullets were lodged in the barrel that means the primer ignited and if it had enough power to move the bullet it had enough brilliance to ignite the powder.

Pounding a bullet out of the barrel is the norm... if you can just push it out with no effort that means your bullets are grossly undersized. Always carry a short rod in your range bag for dislodging stuck bullets... it's going to happen again eventually.


Jack

PCJim
10-09-2011, 18:42
Switching die brands on the toolhead heads nothing to do with the squibs you incurred. As others have noted, there was either very little or no powder in the case. You were probably very distracted when the sizing die self destructed, and did not resume your reloading by double checking your shellplate stations and confirming what was occurring with each.

jmorris
10-09-2011, 18:59
The part that you are missing on the Dillon die is an E clip, also commonly called a "Jesus" clip as that's what one says when they come flying off.

If your size die (any size die) is set to size a case to fit a case gauge any combination of other dies will work to finish the process as long as finished it drops into and out of said case gauge.

As above, you likely skipped powder as crimp won't cause a squib.

ron59
10-09-2011, 19:30
This is why u buy the repair kit (whatever they call it). It has those in there.

eb1ch
10-09-2011, 20:35
This is why u buy the repair kit (whatever they call it). It has those in there.

actually, it doesn't. I do have the repair kit.

unclebob
10-09-2011, 20:55
You can go to any hardware store and buy the E clip.

Colorado4Wheel
10-09-2011, 20:55
None of this would have happened if you had just used the Lee die from the beginning and left the Dillon Die in the drawer. Lee doesn't have that E-Clip. The punch just slides up harmlessly and they you loosen the nut and move it back. It's a better setup by far.

Tpro
10-09-2011, 21:07
I always thought the Dillon dies looked more complicated than needed. For me I think the Lee dies are almost too short for the LnL with the bushings. I use the uni-decapping die and it is close to being too short.

So maybe Steve is correct...buy all three Lee dies and sell the Dillon dies. Get rid of the complication.

Colorado4Wheel
10-10-2011, 07:26
I always thought the Dillon dies looked more complicated than needed. For me I think the Lee dies are almost too short for the LnL with the bushings. I use the uni-decapping die and it is close to being too short.

Lee dies work just fine in the LnL. You don't need a bunch of threads to lock the die in place and you can always put the nut at the bottom if needed (no need to in my experience).

unclebob
10-10-2011, 07:38
Lee dies work just fine in the LnL. You don't need a bunch of threads to lock the die in place and you can always put the nut at the bottom if needed (no need to in my experience).

Put the lock nut on the bottom I believe on the LNL and I know on the 550 that does not work. On the 650 yes. Like Steve said you only need about 1 to 1 1/2 threads to work. Also using Dillon's lock rings work better than the Lee.

jmorris
10-10-2011, 07:43
The issue with lee dies is the jam nuts, chunk them and use thinner nuts. I prefer the ones that are like a single split set collar so you can lock the nut to the die without so much as a mark on the threads.

unclebob
10-10-2011, 07:57
I always thought the Dillon dies looked more complicated than needed. For me I think the Lee dies are almost too short for the LnL with the bushings. I use the uni-decapping die and it is close to being too short.

So maybe Steve is correct...buy all three Lee dies and sell the Dillon dies. Get rid of the complication.

Dillon dies are not complicated. On the sizer die, it has a spring on the decapping pin to help kick off the spent primer from the decapping pin. Yes the E clip over time will break. Easy to replace. The bullet seat die works great if you use lead bullets. Pull a pin the stem falls out for easy cleaning and no readjustment when you put it back together. Also on the Dillon sizing die. It is a little easier to unscrew the decapping pin out and put it back together if you happen to have already primed cases.