Anyone load .45 G.A.P.? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Anyone load .45 G.A.P.?


dgray64
10-11-2011, 13:28
I load several calibers and have no problems with any of them except .45GAP. I can't seem to get the crimp tight enough. None of my other sized rounds will ever have a bullet move even if jammed, but the 45 GAP will move if disturbed.

I use two Lee single stage loaders doing two operations for the whole run then changing the dies and doing the last two operations. I started out using my .45 acp dies and thought that was the problem, so I bought 45 GAP dies. The rounds shoot well, but again I have to be careful with them. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm planing on going to a turret or progressive system in the spring, but want to iron out this problem first. Thanks again.

Dave :wow:

creophus
10-11-2011, 13:56
My pride won't let me own a GAP. 45ACP all the way!

GioaJack
10-11-2011, 14:13
Except for a roll crimp into a bullet designed crimping groove taper crimping will not prevent set-back.

Your problem lies not in your crimp but one, or more, other problems. The first and most obvious would be your sizing operation; die not adjusted correctly, faulty sized die, brass that is not actually brass and springs back to previous chamber size.

Another possible problem could be your bullet size. For jacketed you want .451 and for lead you want .452.

Continuing to tighten your crimp will not fix your problem... backing off the crimp until you just remove the flare/bell will actually give you better results.


Jack

engineer151515
10-11-2011, 14:31
My pride won't let me own a GAP. 45ACP all the way!

Save this for GNG.

It's a straight up reloading question.

OP - there is usually some reloading info in the Bull Dawgs (45GAP) forum too. See the sticky at the top.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=87

unclebob
10-11-2011, 15:13
What jack said. Back off on your crimp. You just want enough crimp to remove the bell. I wish they would rename taper crimp since it is not a crimp. Itís just removing the bell.
I would say that 95% of the people that bad mouth Gap have never shot one.

dgray64
10-11-2011, 15:58
Thanks. I reload the Winchester brass that I bought as rounds and also bought some new Starline brass. I'll try resizing a little more and backing off on my crimp. I may have mad the bell a little too much. I use Rainier and Berry's plated bullets. Again thanks for the help.

Dave :cool:

Tpro
10-11-2011, 16:09
What jack said. Back off on your crimp. You just want enough crimp to remove the bell. I wish they would rename taper crimp since it is not a crimp. It’s just removing the bell.
I would say that 95% of the people that bad mouth Gap have never shot one.

How true this is!!

This year alone I have sold 7 .45 G.A.P.'s to people who came in wanting something else...usually .45 ACP. I will sell .45 ACP (in fact I'm doing the paper work right now and waiting for his sights to come in so I can deliver on Thursday) BUT...if they are open to it we go to the range and shoot them, side by each. The .45 G.A.P. only lost once, and I still sold one to his wife (he ended up with a PT145). My point is UB is correct. In fact, I sold 2 LnL AP's with the .45 G.A.P.s. So it's good for me. And is my EDC weapon.

So as not to hijack the thread...I agree with Jack and UB. with the term "crimp" attached to the die, one tend to think you can get a better "grip" on the projectile, when in reality, case (or neck) tension holds the projectile. So make sure the sizing die is correct.

dbarry
10-11-2011, 17:14
I load 45 gap as well as a dozen other calibers. Nothing different to reloading the gap. Like others have said, likely another issue, not your crimp.

Colorado4Wheel
10-11-2011, 17:39
Thanks. I reload the Winchester brass that I bought as rounds and also bought some new Starline brass. I'll try resizing a little more and backing off on my crimp. I may have mad the bell a little too much. I use Rainier and Berry's plated bullets. Again thanks for the help.

Dave :cool:


How do you do that? You resize completely. Then you do the next step. Are you using a FCD (came in the Lee 4 Die Set)? If so Stop. Remove the flare in a separate step using the seating die and see if that helps.

dgray64
10-11-2011, 19:39
How do you do that? You resize completely. Then you do the next step. Are you using a FCD (came in the Lee 4 Die Set)? If so Stop. Remove the flare in a separate step using the seating die and see if that helps.

Worth a try. Thanks. I will do that. Yes I do have the 4-die set. Thanks.

Dave :cool:

freakshow10mm
10-11-2011, 22:50
Save this for GNG.

It's a straight up reloading question.

Stand down. Creo has been in GTR far longer than you.

engineer151515
10-12-2011, 09:42
Stand down. Creo has been in GTR far longer than you.

Well, at least my post was relevant to reloading.

I like a group that stands up for their members.
Kinda like how I tend to defend GT low post count .45GAP owners who come here looking for a little help on a technical question.

By your response, I'm certain you understand the feeling.

Have a great day, gentlemen.

freakshow10mm
10-12-2011, 10:17
Don't be so sensitive.

El_Ron1
10-12-2011, 11:01
gary newport, check in!

Colorado4Wheel
10-12-2011, 11:16
All nonsense ignored.....:upeyes:


Worth a try. Thanks. I will do that. Yes I do have the 4-die set. Thanks.

Dave :cool:



I really want to know what happens when you seat a bullet. Don't crimp it. Try and push it against the table. See if it shortens like the others that you have crimped using the FCD. Then you either have too much crimp or the FCD is sizing the round causing the issue. That would make my day. :cool: Everyone knows I am not a FCD fan.

Hoser
10-12-2011, 14:24
I only own one 45 ACP anymore. All my 1911s in ACP have been converted over to GAP. My revolvers with shoot both, but I pretty much just shoot GAP.

Easy round to reload and people love giving you brass. And one less size of primer to buy.

That said, when you resize be sure to adjust the die all the way down to the shellplate/shellholder. When crimping just take the bell out and be sure there isnt any light around the case & bullet.

Beanie-Bean
10-12-2011, 14:56
Just received my 600 bullets from Hornady--185 gr. XTP. Going to finish out the last of the 230 gr. 45ACP loads and then will set the dies and priming system up for GAP. Thankfully, the load manuals have the 185 XTP listed for GAP.

GioaJack
10-12-2011, 15:34
The only reason Hozer shoots the GAP is because ACP cases are actually taller than him. :whistling:


Jack

bush pilot
10-12-2011, 16:11
gary newport, check in!

I think he just left the GAP cave in the GAP mobile.

bush pilot
10-12-2011, 16:14
Stand down. Creo has been in GTR far longer than you.

Not if you count the time he did in prison and wasting his time on Koski's website, Creo's almost a newcomer here.

dgray64
10-12-2011, 17:14
I wrote a email to Lee Precision today describing the problem. Peter wrote back pretty quickly and asked for some specific info like the diameter of the bullets and the overall length of the finished rounds. He thinks that my bell is too large and advised me to make it so that the bullet just it will just sit on the opening. He also recommended that I camfer the inside of the casing so that it doesn't cut the bullet. I'll keep you up to date how it all works out. Thanks again.

Dave

Colorado4Wheel
10-12-2011, 17:35
Or

You could seat a bullet and push on the bench with it. I promise you that will be step one to solving the problem.

Lee will NEVER admit their FCD is causing a problem.

Tombo 65
10-12-2011, 18:15
I reload for 45gap and 45acp. I've experienced some similar results to what the OP mentioned when I flared the casing to much in preparation for inserting the bullet. I don't use Berry's bullets anymore. Mostly stick to hardcast lead or heavy jacketed bullets. The Berry's seem so thin skinned that you have to bell the case more than with a heavy jacketed bullet or a lead round in order to avoid damaging the "skin". I flare the case just enough to allow the bullet taper to begin to seat. Too little flare and the case crinkles, too much and the crimp is only marginally effective. I use so little bell or flare that the crimp is almost not necessary. There is no visible flare, and the bullet swages itself into the case and is tight enough to use at that point, but I taper crimp as the final step. I have had no problems with bullet setback, even after chambering the same round 10 or 15 times. I also get more use out of the brass before the throat starts to crack.

Regarding 45gap, I understand the loyalty to 45acp, but the way I see it they are both 45cal, and both outstanding cartridges. I carry my Glock 37 daily, and was just given a G21sf for my birthday. I reload mostly heavy bullets in the 45gap, 200 225, and 255 grain hardcast lead. I get zero, I repeat ZERO leading with 21 bh .452 diameter cast lead bullets shot thru the Glock factory barrel. As far as I'm concerned, the two cartridges are equal up to 200 gr bullets. Above 200 gr, the 45acp can handle higher velocities, but I'm shooting 255gr LSWC bullets thru the 37 on a weekly basis, and they work better than any of the lighter bullets I've tried.

Good luck with the reloading. Let us know how things turn out.
Tombo 65

unclebob
10-12-2011, 18:30
Take a bullet and measure it in the area of where the mouth of case will be. Load the round. Then pull the bullet. You should see a very slight to no ring around the bullet where the mouth was. Now measure the bullet and see if the bullet is smaller.

freakshow10mm
10-12-2011, 22:29
Not if you count the time he did in prison and wasting his time on Koski's website, Creo's almost a newcomer here.
Whoa? Koski's got a website? I thought he got banned from the Internet for that "but officer, she told me she was 18" incident? :rofl:

VN350X10
10-12-2011, 22:39
O.K. gang, the man actually TOLD us what his problem is....

1) He's using the 4 die set w/FCD (more later)

2) He's using Rainer & Berry's PLATED bullets.

The FCD is fine with a traditional jacketed bullet, I use one at times for some applications.
The problem is the PLATED bullets.
They're too soft & the member who mentiooned the FCD resizing was close.
The die is sizing the bullet, which has a lot less (like no) springback compared to the brass case.
I've seen this in several calibers, it's not a GAP problem.
It's just the mechanics of the loaded round.

uncle albert

(note here....Hi Freak !)

Zombie Steve
10-12-2011, 23:07
Small primer = :aodnsb:

GARY WHERE YOU AT?!?!?!?!?!


Not if you count the time he did in prison

Hot ****! Tell me a story!

freakshow10mm
10-12-2011, 23:12
O.K. gang, the man actually TOLD us what his problem is....

1) He's using the 4 die set w/FCD (more later)

2) He's using Rainer & Berry's PLATED bullets.

The FCD is fine with a traditional jacketed bullet, I use one at times for some applications.
The problem is the PLATED bullets.
They're too soft & the member who mentiooned the FCD resizing was close.
The die is sizing the bullet, which has a lot less (like no) springback compared to the brass case.
I've seen this in several calibers, it's not a GAP problem.
It's just the mechanics of the loaded round.

uncle albert

(note here....Hi Freak !)
Problem is the bullets, I agree. If you want plated that holds up, use Xtreme. Rainier and Berry's are soft. Xtreme is hard like jacketed. If you have the money to buy in bulk. Montana Gold Bullet are true jacketed and in case quantity are a bit more than Berry's or Rainier.

(note here :wavey: Uncle Albert)

gary newport
10-13-2011, 00:09
My pride won't let me own a GAP. 45ACP all the way!

Your "pride" needs an attitude adjustment! :supergrin:

gary newport
10-13-2011, 00:11
Small primer = :aodnsb:

GARY WHERE YOU AT?!?!?!?!?!




Hot ****! Tell me a story!

Here--and better late than never! :cool:

gary newport
10-13-2011, 00:36
I load .45 GAP on a Dillon press, using Dillon dies. I haven't had any problem with bullet set-back when reloading either plated (mostly Rainier) or jacketed (mostly Montana Gold) bullets.

Colorado4Wheel
10-13-2011, 06:58
O.K. gang, the man actually TOLD us what his problem is....

1) He's using the 4 die set w/FCD (more later)

2) He's using Rainer & Berry's PLATED bullets.

The FCD is fine with a traditional jacketed bullet, I use one at times for some applications.
The problem is the PLATED bullets.
They're too soft & the member who mentiooned the FCD resizing was close.
The die is sizing the bullet, which has a lot less (like no) springback compared to the brass case.
I've seen this in several calibers, it's not a GAP problem.
It's just the mechanics of the loaded round.

uncle albert

(note here....Hi Freak !)

That is the likely answer. But I would prefer to go through the process of actually problem solving it.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time problem solving these things. Like I said before. Size a case. Lightly flare the case, seat the bullet. TRY AND PUSH THE BULLET IN THE CASE USING THE BENCH. Depending on results you then get to look at either a sizing/flare issue or a FCD/crimp issue.

VN350X10
10-13-2011, 18:21
Note Gary's response. He's using the plated bullets, but NOT the FCD die.
Wrong tool for the application.


uncle albert

PsychoKnight
10-13-2011, 21:16
I reload for 45gap and 45acp. I've experienced some similar results to what the OP mentioned when I flared the casing to much in preparation for inserting the bullet. I don't use Berry's bullets anymore. Mostly stick to hardcast lead or heavy jacketed bullets. The Berry's seem so thin skinned that you have to bell the case more than with a heavy jacketed bullet or a lead round in order to avoid damaging the "skin". I flare the case just enough to allow the bullet taper to begin to seat. Too little flare and the case crinkles, too much and the crimp is only marginally effective. I use so little bell or flare that the crimp is almost not necessary. There is no visible flare, and the bullet swages itself into the case and is tight enough to use at that point, but I taper crimp as the final step. I have had no problems with bullet setback, even after chambering the same round 10 or 15 times. I also get more use out of the brass before the throat starts to crack.

Regarding 45gap, I understand the loyalty to 45acp, but the way I see it they are both 45cal, and both outstanding cartridges. I carry my Glock 37 daily, and was just given a G21sf for my birthday. I reload mostly heavy bullets in the 45gap, 200 225, and 255 grain hardcast lead. I get zero, I repeat ZERO leading with 21 bh .452 diameter cast lead bullets shot thru the Glock factory barrel. As far as I'm concerned, the two cartridges are equal up to 200 gr bullets. Above 200 gr, the 45acp can handle higher velocities, but I'm shooting 255gr LSWC bullets thru the 37 on a weekly basis, and they work better than any of the lighter bullets I've tried.

Good luck with the reloading. Let us know how things turn out.
Tombo 65

I had similar history w/ the gap. The gap case is significantly different than the acp. When the cartridge first came out, I spent maybe 80 hours trying to get acp cases to work in the gap guns. Once I carefully compared the cut-aways of the two cartridges, I understood why it could never work, and also why bullet seating and brass life was more fickle for the gap. Like Tombo, once I minimized the belling by ditching plated in favor of conventional jacketed, and taper crimping (2-stage) just enough to straighten the case mouth - it was all good. Very tight fit w/out setback problems, good brass life. Oh, I also grew out of the Lee 4 die sets also. Redding Competition for 45gap. Once I got those, I felt too guilty bequeathing inferior dies to anyone else (imho,of course) and discarded them. You can disassemble and lasiviously rub the inside of the dies and truly feel the improvement in both contour and texture.

creophus
10-21-2011, 07:52
Just messing with the OP. I intended to respond a bit later with something useful but forgot about this thread. My bad!

Looks like the standard responses have already been given so hopefully this has been resolved.

In regard to Koski's website and time in prison...you can't prove anything!!!

CPG19
10-23-2011, 02:42
so order to reload gap round . can ACP die set can be used ? or GAP die set need to purhcased ?

thank

im getting ready on my gap reload as well . op is way ahead of me =D

gary newport
10-23-2011, 12:19
so order to reload gap round . can ACP die set can be used ? or GAP die set need to purhcased ?

thank

im getting ready on my gap reload as well . op is way ahead of me =D

As far as I know, most, if not all brands can be used for .45 GAP or .45 ACP. The Dillon dies I first used for GAP were in fact .45 ACP dies I had purchased to load that cartridge. Now, Dillon describes these dies as .45 ACP/GAP.

bush pilot
10-23-2011, 18:07
As far as I know, most, if not all brands can be used for .45 GAP or .45 ACP. The Dillon dies I first used for GAP were in fact .45 ACP dies I had purchased to load that cartridge. Now, Dillon describes these dies as .45 ACP/GAP.

Lee said you can't load ACP and GAP with the same dies.

gary newport
10-23-2011, 18:13
Lee said you can't load ACP and GAP with the same dies.

Well, so much for Lee dies! :upeyes:

(By the way, BP, you haven't told me how much, how to make out the check and where to send it!)

dbarry
10-27-2011, 19:06
Lee said you can't load ACP and GAP with the same dies.

You can load gap w/ Lee acp dies. I did it for months before I bought dedicated GAP dies. Only problem I had was getting enough bell on case mouth w Lee ACP dies. That was really only problem w/ lead bullets.

Zero difference loading GAP vs 9mm, or ACP (regarding procedure/process). No different.

AZson
10-30-2011, 13:33
Are you using a LFC, I have use if for a few years now and I have no problem with my GAP rounds. It also it used for the .45 ACP

AZson
10-30-2011, 13:35
Your "pride" needs an attitude adjustment! :supergrin:

I agree, I have no idea what this has to do with fixing this guys problem.

gary newport
10-30-2011, 13:45
I agree, I have no idea what this has to do with fixing this guys problem.

Creophus was just funnin' around. Old GTR regulars do that a lot.