Can a cop do this? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Batesmotel
10-15-2011, 09:43
A friend was at family dinner last night at his fathers. A bad argument broke out and accusations were made about his wife. She was being blamed for their sons birth defect. He packed up his wife and kids and left before things got physical.

The family called the cops claiming he left in a rage and he was a danger to his kids. Cop showed up at his house and ordered him to return to his fathers house so they could all sort everything out. He refused and slammed the door on the cop. Today he finds out he might be facing charges for disobeying the orders of a police officer. A detective is coming today to take his statement.

Can a cop order someone to return to a place where no crime was committed? Any suggestions?

IndyGunFreak
10-15-2011, 09:50
So... how much alcohol was involved?

As to whether they can do that or not... I dunno. Sounds kinda shady to me. They might be sending a detective over just to try and glean some info from him regarding the situation, rather than actually pursuing charges.

I'm not sure I'd give a statement w/o legal counsel in that situation though.

Cav
10-15-2011, 10:06
Well I will guess we dont know what the caller stated happened, or the parties at that location stated occured.

Also do not know exactly what the 'suspect' said or did.

RVER
10-15-2011, 10:33
Can a cop order someone to return to a place where no crime was committed? Any suggestions?

Can he? He did and your friend didn't go. So moving on to should he? That may depend on the state, reservation, territory or heck even country. Don't let it wreck your weekend, you only get four of them a month...

Edited to say: I'm not being an *****. Police deal with this type of situation often times several times per shift and chances are that they won't over react. Unfortunately if your friends father stated that he left in a rage and was a danger to his kids AND your friend reacted to the officer by slamming the door rather discussing the situation further maybe the agency has a legitimate concern that may need to be cleared up. Don't let it wreck your weekend, you only get four of them a month...

Officer X
10-15-2011, 10:33
The family called the cops claiming he left in a rage and he was a danger to his kids. Cop showed up at his house and ordered him to return to his fathers house so they could all sort everything out. He refused and slammed the door on the cop. Today he finds out he might be facing charges for disobeying the orders of a police officer. A detective is coming today to take his statement.


Without knowing all the details, here is goes;

We get called to do welfare checks on children all the time, mostly due to divorce/child custody issues and most of those are BS.

We would definitely not be looking to have him return anywhere to sort anything out. If need be, they're adults and they can sort it out themselves at a later date. The more important issue would be to make sure the kids were ok.

If we did get the call of a check and the caller reported that he left in a rage and was a danger to his kids, then he slammed the door on the cop who went to speak to him, that could very well substantiate the concerns. There is no way any officer from my agency would be walking away then and having a detective follow up, if dad refused to cooperate any further at that point, it's likely that an entry would be made to see if those kids were ok. If it had to be escalated to that point, an arrest would be made at that point for Obstruction and a call would most likely be placed to child services.

I've never had to go that far though, most incidents can be handled by talking.

Knute
10-15-2011, 10:51
I can see why your friend got into an argument with his family. He's such a stand-up guy that he slams doors in the faces of police. Here's the thing, you don't know that a crime didn't occur. You only heard your friend's version of what happened. You have no idea what was reported to the police as having occurred. I'm not sure why the officer wanted your friend to return to his dad's rather than just getting his version of what happened at his home and checking on the kids and neither do you. Unfortunately, your friend made things worse and instead of having it dealt with last night, he's now got a detective crawling up his ***** at his home, and you can be guaranteed a report will be forwarded on to DHS regardless of the findings.

+1 on the question of how much were they drinking???

Goldendog Redux
10-15-2011, 11:16
Once again the police are used to facilitate revenge rather than enforce laws

merlynusn
10-15-2011, 11:24
+1 to OfficerX and Knute. If i get a report the kids are in danger, I'd just ask to see the kids and ensure they are safe. I'd talk to the dad and figure out what happened. I certainly wouldn't have him return anywhere. If there is enough to arrest him based on what the other parties said, then the arrest would be made. If not, then no arrest is made. But slamming the door in the cop's face is not the answer. And there is no charge for him "disobeying" the officers orders. At least none that I can see based on the facts you presented. Now it might be different in that jurisdiction since I don't know what random laws they have. But here it certainly wouldn't be a charge.

Bruce M
10-15-2011, 12:09
I find it almost as difficult to believe that he was ordered to return to a disturbance as I do that officers where there to check the welfare of children after a potentially legitimate complaint and he slammed the door so they left without checking on the children. Just a guess but I think some information is missing or incorrect here.

4949shooter
10-15-2011, 12:21
I find it almost as difficult to believe that he was ordered to return to a disturbance as I do that officers where there to check the welfare of children after a potentially legitimate complaint and he slammed the door so they left without checking on the children. Just a guess but I think some information is missing or incorrect here.

Yep..

COLOSHOOTR
10-15-2011, 12:44
Having him return back to the scene of a disturbance just to get everyone there yelling again makes no sense and there has to be more to it.

Mayhem like Me
10-15-2011, 12:46
so why did you slam the door again?

p.d.
10-15-2011, 12:58
No one has come out and said it yet, so I will. I'm calling bull hockey on the return to dad's house business. If family members have already separated voluntarily, I'm not getting them back together so I can referee round two, and I've never seen any other cop do that in my entire career.

PinkoCommie
10-15-2011, 13:00
Things did not happen as the story would have it. I wasn't there, but I would bet $1 that an objective observer would say that this is not how it went down.

CAcop
10-15-2011, 13:13
There is a lot missing. Mostly the other half of the story.

As for the "going back to dad's." I wouldn't be surprised if the officer said something like, "Why don't you go smooth things over with your dad" and the guy hears, "Go back to dad's house and work it out."

That is why I love recording the crap out of people when they are all hot and bothered. That way when they complain they get to hear me say something completely different than what they think I said.

Dragoon44
10-15-2011, 13:16
I agree that the claim he was ordered to return to the residence sounds bogus no Cop wants to reunite folks that have a problem especially a potentially physically violent one. Their goal is usually to get the folks separated so everyone can cool off.

The whole things sounds like the typical dysfunctional family scenario.

RussP
10-15-2011, 13:25
A friend was at family dinner last night at his fathers. Who was there? Was it just the the friend, his wife, their kids and the parents?A bad argument broke out and accusations were made about his wife. Who made the first negative comment? Who retaliated, the son or his wife? Has this discussion happened before? Were the children present?She was being blamed for their sons birth defect. Who was blaming her? How was it her fault? He packed up his wife and kids and left before things got physical.What were the parting words by the son and his wife? What were the parting words by the father and others there?The family called the cops claiming he left in a rage and he was a danger to his kids.What behavior did the family say led them to believe he would harm his own kids? How soon after he left the house did the family call? Cop showed up at his houseHow long after he left the father's house did the police arrive at his house? and ordered him to return to his fathers house so they could all sort everything out. I am going to guess that there is more to this conversation. What did the police initially say about the father's call? What was his response to the police. How long did they talk before 'ordering' him to return to the father's house? Why did the police say they wanted to get everyone together again? Did the police want just him to return? Did they want he and the wife? How about the kids?He refused and slammed the door on the cop.Is your friend known for his temper? What did he say to the police before he slammed the door?[/quote] Today he finds out he might be facing charges for disobeying the orders of a police officer. A detective is coming today to take his statement.What is his game plan for talking with the detective. Is there going to be anyone there to advise him to STFU? If he goes ballistic again, he might have a visit from Child Protective Services.[QUOTE=Batesmotel;18044884]Can a cop order someone to return to a place where no crime was committed? Any suggestions?Yes, have someone there who can tell him to ST...well, I've already said that.

Morris
10-15-2011, 16:04
Threads like this always have me breaking out the popcorn popper.

beatcop
10-15-2011, 16:16
Doesn't add up.

..but, my .02 is that we have no "authority" to make anyone move anywhere, unless a refusal will constitute a violation of some sort.

In this scenario, I wouldn't facilitiate my own arrest if I was a suspect either. There is no obligation to cooperate if you're the suspect.

nikerret
10-15-2011, 17:48
What needs to be said has been said. Tagged to follow.

Patchman
10-15-2011, 20:08
This sounds like another dysfunctional family where, again, LE is called in to make adult decisions.

And the kids in question will grow up to repeat the same cycle.

Well, at least there's job security.

Sharky7
10-15-2011, 20:16
There's more to this story than your buddy is telling you....

DustyJacket
10-15-2011, 20:52
..... no Cop wants to reunite folks that have a problem especially a potentially physically violent one.

Exactly true. Once they are apart the situation cools.
Putting the parties back together can only heat it up and get the officers outnumbered.

If they want they can have one car at each place.

Otherwise, it is just a welfare check on the kids safety, and the father's demeanor which apparently sucks and is not telling the entire truth.

Batesmotel
10-15-2011, 20:56
RussP

He was there with his wife and son

His mother made the accusations about his wife causing the birth defect. She has done this ever sense the son was born (deformed leg)

When the accusations started he just said we're leaving, then left.

He made no indication of harming anyone, they called right after he left.

The responding officer found no problems at his house and his wife backed up everything he said.

No alcohol or drugs were involved by anyone.

His mother just blames his wife for the deformity.

This was the first time he has had anyone call the police on him.

Before he closed the door on the officer he said he would not go back to his families house. He felt it was a good idea to go when a fight started and did not feel right about going back. He then asked if he was being charged with anything. The officer said not yet. He said come back when you have charges and slammed the door. The officer got on his radio then left.


An officer came today and took his statement but would say nothing more.

Knute
10-15-2011, 22:55
RussP

He was there with his wife and son

His mother made the accusations about his wife causing the birth defect. She has done this ever sense the son was born (deformed leg)

When the accusations started he just said we're leaving, then left.

He made no indication of harming anyone, they called right after he left.

The responding officer found no problems at his house and his wife backed up everything he said.

No alcohol or drugs were involved by anyone.

His mother just blames his wife for the deformity.

This was the first time he has had anyone call the police on him.

Before he closed the door on the officer he said he would not go back to his families house. He felt it was a good idea to go when a fight started and did not feel right about going back. He then asked if he was being charged with anything. The officer said not yet. He said come back when you have charges and slammed the door. The officer got on his radio then left.


An officer came today and took his statement but would say nothing more.

This makes no sense. What you are describing would have ended the night of the incident. This would not have brought out a detective as you described. Was this an agency near you? If so, which one?

w01
10-15-2011, 23:35
RussP

He was there with his wife and son

His mother made the accusations about his wife causing the birth defect. She has done this ever sense the son was born (deformed leg)

When the accusations started he just said we're leaving, then left.

He made no indication of harming anyone, they called right after he left.

The responding officer found no problems at his house and his wife backed up everything he said.

No alcohol or drugs were involved by anyone.

His mother just blames his wife for the deformity.

This was the first time he has had anyone call the police on him.

Before he closed the door on the officer he said he would not go back to his families house. He felt it was a good idea to go when a fight started and did not feel right about going back. He then asked if he was being charged with anything. The officer said not yet. He said come back when you have charges and slammed the door. The officer got on his radio then left.


An officer came today and took his statement but would say nothing more.

As much as it is unhelpful to escalate this further (and assuming there isn't more to this story) now is a good time for your buddy to shut up and lawyer up.

Hack
10-16-2011, 02:13
It all sounds odd to me. I don't deal in family matters in my position, but it seems to me as others have said, "You don't get them back together ... "

If you are going to have two opposing parties meeting with each other, neutral locations, with appropriate security measures.

And, there is more to the story ...

RussP
10-16-2011, 05:48
Thank you. I have a few follow-up questions.RussP

He was there with his wife and sonHow old is the son?His mother made the accusations about his wife causing the birth defect. She has done this ever sense the son was born (deformed leg)So this is an ongoing issue for his mother. Is there a medical opinion on the cause? What reason does his mother give that it is his wife's fault? Does mom have other issues that might contribute to her anger? Has mother always disapproved of her daughter-in-law? Are there religious issues involved?When the accusations started he just said we're leaving, then left.He didn't defend his wife? He didn't ask his mom to not discuss the issue?He made no indication of harming anyone,So he just calmly gathered his family and left? they called right after he left.Again, what did the father/mother say to the police? What did the police say the parents said to them that supported their claim the child was in danger? Does dad have other issues that might influence his decision to call the police?

Is this the only issue the parents have with their son and daughter-in-law?The responding officer found no problems at his house and his wife backed up everything he said.They found nothing wrong? Then the police were allowed inside the son's home? What did the son say that his wife backed up?No alcohol or drugs were involved by anyone.OkayHis mother just blames his wife for the deformity.Again, what does his mother say the daughter-in-law did to cause the problem?This was the first time he has had anyone call the police on him.Before he closed the door on the officer he said he would not go back to his families house. He felt it was a good idea to go when a fight started and did not feel right about going back. He then asked if he was being charged with anything. The officer said not yet. He said come back when you have charges and slammed the door. The officer got on his radio then left.Does your friend have anger problems? What did the officer say that pissed off your friend? What time was it when the officer came to the house?An officer came today and took his statement but would say nothing more.He took a statement, about what?

Dukeboy01
10-16-2011, 07:12
Definitely something missing here. Either your friend hasn't told you the whole truth about what really happened at the dinner party or the family members have told the police something that is way more serious than what actually happened. Somewhere in this mess somebody is lying or, at the very least,seriously exaggerating what happened.

But, like others, I'm calling BS on the officer "ordering" your friend to go back to the dinner party. If combatants have seperated themselves before you arrive, you don't go putting them back together. I would suspect that a suggestion to go back and work it out may have been interpreted as an order.

Markasaurus
10-16-2011, 07:30
:drunk:Whatever happened to families sorting this sort of thing out on their own with no heat? Is EVERYBODY a threat?
Thank you for your post - you made me glad i have absolutely minimal family!

America is in a terribly sad state, i am afeared.
No alimony or child support ever. 2 ancient parents still alive (knock the wood). Good terms with the ex (she calls me when the boyfriend is sleeping - no creepin.)

God help me, i seem to be correct in how i see life.

Sgt127
10-16-2011, 08:09
:drunk:Whatever happened to families sorting this sort of thing out on their own with no heat? Is EVERYBODY a threat?
Thank you for your post - you made me glad i have absolutely minimal family!

America is in a terribly sad state, i am afeared.
No alimony or child support ever. 2 ancient parents still alive (knock the wood). Good terms with the ex (she calls me when the boyfriend is sleeping - no creepin.)

God help me, i seem to be correct in how i see life.

Thank God there aren't more people like you. I'm too old to find another job.

dogchild
10-16-2011, 08:16
A friend was at family dinner last night at his fathers. A bad argument broke out and accusations were made about his wife. She was being blamed for their sons birth defect. He packed up his wife and kids and left before things got physical.

The family called the cops claiming he left in a rage and he was a danger to his kids. Cop showed up at his house and ordered him to return to his fathers house so they could all sort everything out. He refused and slammed the door on the cop. Today he finds out he might be facing charges for disobeying the orders of a police officer. A detective is coming today to take his statement.

Can a cop order someone to return to a place where no crime was committed? Any suggestions?

Sounds like a really nice family!! think i would find me someone else to Dine with

lwt210
10-16-2011, 09:58
He was there with his wife and son

His mother made the accusations about his wife causing the birth defect. She has done this ever sense the son was born (deformed leg)


His mother just blames his wife for the deformity.

.

Your friend needs to be told to quit having dinner with his mother if she is going to act like that.

Why on earth is he breaking bread with the woman? No way I am having dinner with someone like that, no matter what relation they are to me.

Or you could choose to stay out of it. Which I am sure that every officer that has been involved in it up to this point wishes like hades they could do.

blastfact
10-16-2011, 10:24
Sounds like your friend needs to tell mommy to buzz off and take daddy with her. Slamming a door in a cops face is not wise in our combat ready police state society.

Morris
10-16-2011, 11:34
Slamming a door in a cops face is not wise in our combat ready police state society.

Oh my, please expand that thought!

I look forward to the response, holding my bowl of popcorn . . .

scottydl
10-16-2011, 11:52
An officer was called to investigate a domestic dispute. Upon arrival the parties were separated. It was learned that a child was present during the argument.

When the officer went to interview your "friend", your "friend" refused to cooperate with the investigation.

Yes, he could potentially be charged with Resisting/Obstructing a Peace Officer... that's what it would be called in Illinois anyway.

I'm not saying that a suggestion for him to go back to the other house was good or bad, I'm just stating what he might be legally responsible for by acting the way you have described.

groovyash
10-16-2011, 13:30
Sounds like your friend needs to tell mommy to buzz off and take daddy with her. Slamming a door in a cops face is not wise in our combat ready police state society.

Oh look, a moron. Neat.

To expand for a moment what do you think happened in 1796 if you slammed the door in the face of a Constable investigating a crime? Oh that's right you'd have your head split open because this Libertarian historic fantasy land never existed.

RVER
10-16-2011, 15:30
Dude, once again don't let it wreck your weekend. There's more to this than you'll ever know. This is a train wreck. Be thankful that your not your friend and be happy. We're happy that your not your friend, so should you. Peace.
:cool:

jpa
10-16-2011, 19:39
They had to send a second officer back to get his statement because the first officer forgot his hat. Was the distance from his parents' house to his house about 7 miles, covering 3 jurisdictions? Tell them to make an appointment next time.


Sorry to joke with you but the long and short answer is that unless he is under arrest or there is some consequence to remaining where he is (i.e. trespassing, in a park after hours, etc), then the police have no authority to order him to go anywhere. I agree there's more to the story than what you were told. If the officer had legal authority to require him to retun to the house, he would have made him go or transported him himself. There would be no follow-up later.

Batesmotel
10-17-2011, 11:38
Update.

Asking him to return to his families house was a ploy to get him out of the house in an attempt to talk with his wife and have a look around with out him there.

As it stands it is going down as, Unsubstantiated claims by a disgruntled relative. No further action.

His mom is in trouble for making a false police report. Looks like she made some very bad accusations about him and his wife.

smokeross
10-17-2011, 12:17
I bailed a guy out 3 weeks ago. Boy is his story different from the other party involved. I've known all involved for over 20 years. Funny how the guy I bailed out tries to come off as the victim. I'm not taking sides, but I sure know which party has the more plausible statements.

ETA: Let's see if we can get mom and dad to post their side here. This thread would get real interesting then.

RussP
10-17-2011, 15:07
Update.

Asking him to return to his families house was a ploy to get him out of the house in an attempt to talk with his wife and have a look around with out him there.Who told him that?As it stands it is going down as, Unsubstantiated claims by a disgruntled relative. No further action.GoodHis mom is in trouble for making a false police report. Looks like she made some very bad accusations about him and his wife.What accusations did she make? She's in trouble, what kind of trouble?

larry_minn
10-17-2011, 22:38
I had a "person" call the Police (ok Sheriff's Deputy) on me. Seems they were concerned my family was not living in habitable conditions.

Deputy comes and I talk to him. I then LAUGH. Tell him. "Lets see I spent $20k on new roof, 40k on new windows,doors,siding. Another 40k on garage......."

He still wanted to go inside and check power, water,etc. I told him "no thanks" and he left.

merlynusn
10-18-2011, 09:33
Update.

Asking him to return to his families house was a ploy to get him out of the house in an attempt to talk with his wife and have a look around with out him there.

As it stands it is going down as, Unsubstantiated claims by a disgruntled relative. No further action.

His mom is in trouble for making a false police report. Looks like she made some very bad accusations about him and his wife.

A ploy to get him out of the house? Seriously? There is no ploy. It's "We are going to check on the welfare of your children." PERIOD. If I need to talk to the wife and/or kids separately, you simply say "step over here where I can talk to you privately."

I most certainly would never allow the person to prevent me from doing it if I had a call like that. And yes, in that case, if I had a call like that where the parent prevented me from checking the kids, then yes, they'd go to jail for resist, delay, obstruct. And I wouldn't come back the next day. I'd do it right then.

Again, not all of what you are saying makes sense the way most police do their jobs.