Cheapest 12ga. AOW? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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emt1581
10-16-2011, 14:19
I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A SBS (SHORT BARRELED SHOTGUN). I WANT AN AOW.


I'd like to get an AOW in 12ga. but I'm curious if any can be had under $400-$500?

The shorty Rem., Mossy, Serbus all seem to be in the $700 range.

Any out there for less?

BTW, I plan on building a nice SBS, so that is NOT what I want here.

Thanks

-Emt1581

Jason D
10-16-2011, 17:14
Probably the one you submit paperwork for and cut down the barrel.

DoubleWide
10-16-2011, 17:35
Mossberg Cruiser - around $550, but 14"

nastytrigger
10-16-2011, 17:43
Maybe?

http://paladinarmory.com/Photos%20for%20PA%20website/Bear_Claw_Savage_Sporter_411_side_by_side_11.5_inch_barrel.JPG

emt1581
10-16-2011, 18:37
Probably the one you submit paperwork for and cut down the barrel.

As I said I do not want a SBS for the purposes of this thread.

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-16-2011, 18:42
Mossberg Cruiser - around $550, but 14"

True. I'm looking more for 6.5" to 8.5" though.

So far this is around the cheapest I've found.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=255577607

Thanks

-Emt1581

D3S3RT_P3NGU1N
10-16-2011, 20:26
What about cutting down a cheap sxs like in this thread?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1354497

I plan on doing something similar myself as a little winter project to keep myself entertained.

michael e
10-16-2011, 20:44
Can someone tell me why half of these say a 5 stamp others say a 200 stamp?

emt1581
10-16-2011, 20:48
Can someone tell me why half of these say a 5 stamp others say a 200 stamp?

SBS= Short Barreled Shotgun= $200 stamp

AOW= Any other weapon= $5 stamp (transfer)

Third time here...NOT looking for a SBS!

-Emt1581

Victoriagotagun
10-16-2011, 21:29
That Keg M500 that you linked and the 14" 590A1's are going to be the cheapest your probably going to find.

emt1581
10-17-2011, 05:07
That Keg M500 that you linked and the 14" 590A1's are going to be the cheapest your probably going to find.

The 3+1 model seems to be VERY rare as I've only found one. It's the one I would lean toward though due to that extra shot. Then again 2+1 means 2-3" smaller.

Thanks

-Emt1581

Indy_Guy_77
10-17-2011, 08:35
How handy are you at machining, OP?

If you're handy and have access to the necessary tools, you could buy a pistol-grip only shotgun and make one yourself. This route would cost $200 for the tax stamp, but you can find PG-only shotguns relatively inexpensively.

So, $200 for the gun and $200 for the stamp is almost half of what a new KEG or Serbu costs...

IF you can do the machining work yourself, that is...

-J-

Quiet
10-17-2011, 08:37
AFAIK...
The least expensive factory made AOW is the Safety Harbor KEG-12 @ around $600-650.

emt1581
10-17-2011, 16:52
How handy are you at machining, OP?



Not very unfortunately.

Plus I don't think they sell the exact same slim/folding forends as seen on the Serbu's.

However, I do not know of any shotguns that are as you describe. Would that JIC (Just In Case gun from Mossberg be an example? That only had a pistol grip.

Thanks

-Emt1581

Victoriagotagun
10-17-2011, 20:35
Not very unfortunately.

Plus I don't think they sell the exact same slim/folding forends as seen on the Serbu's.

However, I do not know of any shotguns that are as you describe. Would that JIC (Just In Case gun from Mossberg be an example? That only had a pistol grip.

Thanks

-Emt1581

Safety Harbor Firearms offers the KEG foregrip for sale but I believe its just for the 870 right now.

sfguard
10-17-2011, 22:50
Quick Question that I hope the OP don't mind me asking. All the AOW types I have seen are pump action. Are there semi-autos available or do they have to be pump? Links would be nice if someone knows of some semi's as Google couldn't find me any.

Victoriagotagun
10-17-2011, 23:05
Quick Question that I hope the OP don't mind me asking. All the AOW types I have seen are pump action. Are there semi-autos available or do they have to be pump? Links would be nice if someone knows of some semi's as Google couldn't find me any.

There are Saiga S12 AOW's.

emt1581
10-18-2011, 05:01
Safety Harbor Firearms offers the KEG foregrip for sale but I believe its just for the 870 right now.

And see I'm more interested in the Mossberg.

Thanks

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-18-2011, 05:05
Quick Question that I hope the OP don't mind me asking. All the AOW types I have seen are pump action. Are there semi-autos available or do they have to be pump? Links would be nice if someone knows of some semi's as Google couldn't find me any.

With a traditional semi auto you have to have some sort of stock on it for it to function due to the spring/recoil mechanism.

A friend of mine actually has a sawed off semi-auto that two nimrods used to rob a bunch of stores back in the 70's (his grandfather was the chief at the time so I guess he just kept it). Anyways the gun is useless and does not work. Plus I think the firing pin was taken out.

As mentioned there are S12's but you are looking at a few grand to make them reliable. I had one that was new and I converted it. Biggest POS I ever owned!! The x39 version is one of the best AK's (converted) I've seen!! Go figure!

Personally I'm leaning toward a Mossberg. However the decision I'm trying to make is between a 2+1 at 6.5" barrel or a 3+1 at 8.5". What are everyone's thoughts?

Thanks

-Emt1581

Indy_Guy_77
10-18-2011, 05:48
Not very unfortunately.

Plus I don't think they sell the exact same slim/folding forends as seen on the Serbu's.

However, I do not know of any shotguns that are as you describe. Would that JIC (Just In Case gun from Mossberg be an example? That only had a pistol grip.

Thanks

-Emt1581

yeah, the JIC pistol-gripped only shotguns would qualify.

Like I said up above...you COULD make your own, but actually paying for all the work / parts / etc and you'd be right at, or over, the cost of buying one.

Just save your pennies for a few more months and then go buy one.

-J-

emt1581
10-18-2011, 05:52
yeah, the JIC pistol-gripped only shotguns would qualify.

Like I said up above...you COULD make your own, but actually paying for all the work / parts / etc and you'd be right at, or over, the cost of buying one.

Just save your pennies for a few more months and then go buy one.

-J-

It's not really a matter of having to save my pennies. I just want to make sure I get the best deal...even though with NFA weapons you often have to throw a bunch of money at the problem through stamps and fees just to get it.

Again, thoughts on 3 shot vs 4? Is the extra two inches either way worth the gain or loss? This will be a car gun at times, possibly carried if a SHTF get's crappy enough....but mostly just a range toy.

Also, if I buy it off gunbroker do I have to get two background checks done? How does the out of state process work?

Thanks

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
10-18-2011, 06:25
Probably the one you submit paperwork for and cut down the barrel.

Doing a SBS or AOW on a form 1 costs $200 either way. A transfer on an AOW is only $5, which is why I imagine the OP is only looking for an AOW.

What about cutting down a cheap sxs like in this thread?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1354497

I plan on doing something similar myself as a little winter project to keep myself entertained.

Again, $200 stamp on a Form 1. If you're gonna pay for a Form 1, you might as well do it as an SBS and have the option of stock or no stock - something you cannot do on an AOW.

Can someone tell me why half of these say a 5 stamp others say a 200 stamp?

An AOW (shotgun that has never had a stock on it, does not currently have one, has a sub-18" barrel, and is registered as an AOW) is only a $5 tax for a transfer, whereas a Short-barreled shotgun is $200 to transfer.

How handy are you at machining, OP?

If you're handy and have access to the necessary tools, you could buy a pistol-grip only shotgun and make one yourself. This route would cost $200 for the tax stamp, but you can find PG-only shotguns relatively inexpensively.

So, $200 for the gun and $200 for the stamp is almost half of what a new KEG or Serbu costs...

IF you can do the machining work yourself, that is...

-J-

If you are doing a Form 1, there's no reason to go AOW that I know of, unless your state doesn't allow SBS but does allow AOW. SBS and AOW cost the same tax on a Form 1, but SBS gives the option of a full stock or pistol grip only. AOW can NOT have a stock on it.


It's not really a matter of having to save my pennies. I just want to make sure I get the best deal...even though with NFA weapons you often have to throw a bunch of money at the problem through stamps and fees just to get it.

Again, thoughts on 3 shot vs 4? Is the extra two inches either way worth the gain or loss? This will be a car gun at times, possibly carried if a SHTF get's crappy enough....but mostly just a range toy.

Also, if I buy it off gunbroker do I have to get two background checks done? How does the out of state process work?

Thanks

-Emt1581

If it's on a Form 4 or Form 1 in another state, I believe it is two stamps to get it to you. For an AOW, though, that's not an issue on cost, just time. An out of state Form 3 or in state Form 4 should only be one stamp. The first stamp will be for the individual that owns it transferring to a dealer, and the second will be for the dealer in your state transferring it to you. Only the second stamp requires your info, as far as I know.

jwhite75
10-18-2011, 07:05
That 500AOW looks like your best bet. Neat little package really.

sfguard
10-18-2011, 11:55
It's not really a matter of having to save my pennies. I just want to make sure I get the best deal...even though with NFA weapons you often have to throw a bunch of money at the problem through stamps and fees just to get it.

Again, thoughts on 3 shot vs 4? Is the extra two inches either way worth the gain or loss? This will be a car gun at times, possibly carried if a SHTF get's crappy enough....but mostly just a range toy.

Also, if I buy it off gunbroker do I have to get two background checks done? How does the out of state process work?

Thanks

-Emt1581

I think I would go for the 4 shot for only 2 extra inches. Thugs normally don't work alone anymore and I am not a big believer in the thought of the other running away just because.

srwm4
10-18-2011, 17:31
If it's on a Form 4 or Form 1 in another state, I believe it is two stamps to get it to you. For an AOW, though, that's not an issue on cost, just time. An out of state Form 3 or in state Form 4 should only be one stamp. The first stamp will be for the individual that owns it transferring to a dealer, and the second will be for the dealer in your state transferring it to you. Only the second stamp requires your info, as far as I know.

Nah, no tax stamp required to transfer an NFA item to an SOT dealer. That's why they bother paying the SOT in the first place. It would be the same as any other out-of-state transfer, but with an extra few months between when your dealer gets it and when you get to take it home.

If you go through a dealer that doesn't have an SOT, then it would be 2x as long, with 2x the stamps required. OP: save yourself the hassle, and go through an SOT - their NFA transfer fees will be higher than the fee for a normal transfer, but it kinda has to be (to cover the cost of the SOT every year, plush insurance on storing your gun for a few months) - still worth it, though.

WoodenPlank
10-18-2011, 17:45
Nah, no tax stamp required to transfer an NFA item to an SOT dealer. That's why they bother paying the SOT in the first place. It would be the same as any other out-of-state transfer, but with an extra few months between when your dealer gets it and when you get to take it home.

If you go through a dealer that doesn't have an SOT, then it would be 2x as long, with 2x the stamps required. OP: save yourself the hassle, and go through an SOT - their NFA transfer fees will be higher than the fee for a normal transfer, but it kinda has to be (to cover the cost of the SOT every year, plush insurance on storing your gun for a few months) - still worth it, though.

So what circumstances causes an out of state sale on NFA to be two stamps? I have seen plenty of listings that clearly stated they were two stamps if buyer was out of state. My (rough) understanding of it was what I described earlier, but I could easily be mistaken about the exact circumstances.

Edit to add: Is that only in situations where the current owner does the initial outbound shipping/transfer through a non-SOT dealer?

srwm4
10-18-2011, 18:00
Edit to add: Is that only in situations where the current owner does the initial outbound shipping/transfer through a non-SOT dealer?

If you select a non-SOT dealer to have them ship it to, then it would have to be 2 stamps. But an extra $5/$200 plus however-many months to go through a non-SOT...why would you?

Doesn't matter who ships it to your transfer dealer, though some shops only accept shipments from other FFLs (even though there is absolutely no legal requirement to do so).

emt1581
10-18-2011, 18:11
Nah, no tax stamp required to transfer an NFA item to an SOT dealer. That's why they bother paying the SOT in the first place. It would be the same as any other out-of-state transfer, but with an extra few months between when your dealer gets it and when you get to take it home.

If you go through a dealer that doesn't have an SOT, then it would be 2x as long, with 2x the stamps required. OP: save yourself the hassle, and go through an SOT - their NFA transfer fees will be higher than the fee for a normal transfer, but it kinda has to be (to cover the cost of the SOT every year, plush insurance on storing your gun for a few months) - still worth it, though.

SOT dealer??

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
10-18-2011, 18:14
SOT dealer??

-Emt1581

Class 3/Title II/NFA. If you buy an AOW online, you'll want to go through a Title II dealer if at all possible to save yourself on headache.

Fireman1291
10-18-2011, 18:18
Just save yourself the headace and save up for another month and buy the Serbu870. I paid $650+$5stamp for mine and added a houge tamer grip(soft) and I couldnt be happier. Its quality and will last a lifetime.

I actually just went to the range today and brought it along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bzj0FxvXl4

emt1581
10-18-2011, 18:19
Ha! Now the one I was looking at is gone and I can't find another. Well not for anything remotely close in price.

I definitely want a Mossberg AOW in case anyone sees one under $600...

As for why I want an AOW vs. a SBS, it has little to do with cost...it's so I can actually have it in the car or carry it legally if I want to...not that I have much intention to. But in this state no long guns in vehicles. SBS= Long gun AOW = No long gun

Thanks

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-18-2011, 18:22
Class 3/Title II/NFA. If you buy an AOW online, you'll want to go through a Title II dealer if at all possible to save yourself on headache.

I thought you legally HAD to for any NFA item...:dunno:

The last place I went through for the can in my avatar closed up so I'll be going with another dealer.

What does SOT stand for though.

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-18-2011, 18:28
Just save yourself the headace and save up for another month and buy the Serbu870. I paid $650+$5stamp for mine and added a houge tamer grip(soft) and I couldnt be happier. Its quality and will last a lifetime.

I actually just went to the range today and brought it along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bzj0FxvXl4

Awesome video!

It looks like the recoil of the gun actually cycles it unintentionally....does it?

What are your thoughts on the gun overall?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Glock 1
10-18-2011, 18:29
More curiosity than anything else here but what do you use a little shotgun like that for? Other than CQC?

WoodenPlank
10-18-2011, 18:33
I thought you legally HAD to for any NFA item...:dunno:

The last place I went through for the can in my avatar closed up so I'll be going with another dealer.

What does SOT stand for though.

-Emt1581

Not always. If it's on a Form 1 or 4 in the same state, I believe you can buy it from the owner without a dealer involved at all, just that the current owner has to hang onto it until the transfer clears. I'd imagine the two stamp process would be something similar.

SOT is special occupational tax, and refers to taxes paid to the ATF for the "privilege" of being able to make or deal in NFA items.

WoodenPlank
10-18-2011, 18:34
More curiosity than anything else here but what do you use a little shotgun like that for? Other than CQC?

Fun, breaching, pissing off people on the range or making them jealous, fun, making VERY large holes in things with a relatively small weapon... Did I mention fun? :whistling:

Glock 1
10-18-2011, 18:35
Just save yourself the headace and save up for another month and buy the Serbu870. I paid $650+$5stamp for mine and added a houge tamer grip(soft) and I couldnt be happier. Its quality and will last a lifetime.

I actually just went to the range today and brought it along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bzj0FxvXl4

Damn, that's sick!

emt1581
10-18-2011, 18:45
More curiosity than anything else here but what do you use a little shotgun like that for? Other than CQC?

Fun and pure CQC.

So long as you know your backstop you can clear a decent threat/space easily with hip shots.

-Emt1581

Fireman1291
10-18-2011, 19:11
No, i'm pumping it in the video. Just real fast. I keep mine in my night stand with winchester PDX1's in it.

My overall thought on it.....is that everyone should own it. Its runs like a top and is so compact it has many uses. It's good for hiking(backpack), nightstand, truck gun, or just plan ole blasting at the range.

I have more footage of it on my youtube channel
www.youtube.com/fireman1291

emt1581
10-18-2011, 19:22
No, i'm pumping it in the video. Just real fast. I keep mine in my night stand with winchester PDX1's in it.

My overall thought on it.....is that everyone should own it. Its runs like a top and is so compact it has many uses. It's good for hiking(backpack), nightstand, truck gun, or just plan ole blasting at the range.

I have more footage of it on my youtube channel
www.youtube.com/fireman1291

I don't know who you are in the vid, but the last guy shooting it...it looks like his first shot the gun begins to almost cycle itself without him meaning to.

And yes I can see a LOT of capabilities for this gun. However, without slugs, and really even with them, this is still a CQC weapon. Not much distance capability but if I want distance I'll pack my Draco...that thing is great for a small package, lots of rounds, and plenty of distance...

I've just always wanted something like what you've got.

I'd like to get one of these for it to...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=255885702

http://www.autoweapons.com/photos08/oct/mscholster.html

Thanks

-Emt1581

Glock 1
10-18-2011, 20:52
Fun, breaching, pissing off people on the range or making them jealous, fun, making VERY large holes in things with a relatively small weapon... Did I mention fun? :whistling:

Hahaha!!! Excellent! Now I want one.

WoodenPlank
10-19-2011, 04:00
Hahaha!!! Excellent! Now I want one.

Also makes one hell of a surprise for carjackers when loaded with #4 or #1 buck. :whistling:

Fireman1291
10-19-2011, 04:41
I was wearing the remington defense shirt in the video.(has a MSR on the back)

He only had one round in the gun and I assume he started to eject to load a fresh one, then realized he was out, then decided to clear the gun. lol

And just for ****s n giggles Ill try to pattern it at 25 yards and shoot a slug at 100 the next time im out. lol

emt1581
10-19-2011, 04:45
Also makes one hell of a surprise for carjackers when loaded with #4 or #1 buck. :whistling:

I actually had that listed...well not the type of shot...but I took it out because I figured there'd be a flame war for promoting it's utility.

-Emt1581

emt1581
10-19-2011, 04:52
I was wearing the remington defense shirt in the video.(has a MSR on the back)

He only had one round in the gun and I assume he started to eject to load a fresh one, then realized he was out, then decided to clear the gun. lol

And just for ****s n giggles Ill try to pattern it at 25 yards and shoot a slug at 100 the next time im out. lol

100yds?? Good luck! :wavey:

You said you bought yours for $650...could you tell me where you got it? Feel free to PM it to me. The dealers in my area seem pretty clueless about them and cannot get them. So for me it's either gunbroker or learn from someone else who has them cheaper.

Thanks

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
10-19-2011, 04:53
I actually had that listed...well not the type of shot...but I took it out because I figured there'd be a flame war for promoting it's utility.

-Emt1581

Eh, screw 'em. If it's legal to carry in your vehicle in your area, it would make a GREAT car gun. There's obviously more concern for collateral damage, but it also packs one hell of a punch. Way more than a Judge ever would. At near contact range, even heavy bird shot might be effective. Maybe.

I'd still stick to #4 or #1, though...

Fireman1291
10-19-2011, 04:57
100yds?? Good luck! :wavey:

You said you bought yours for $650...could you tell me where you got it? Feel free to PM it to me. The dealers in my area seem pretty clueless about them and cannot get them. So for me it's either gunbroker or learn from someone else who has them cheaper.

Thanks

-Emt1581

Sent you a PM. And hey if i can hit steel at 100yards with a 45 then this should be doable. Ill give it three tries cause shooting slugs out of that thing is horrible. lol

WoodenPlank
10-19-2011, 05:01
Sent you a PM. And hey if i can hit steel at 100yards with a 45 then this should be doable. Ill give it three tries cause shooting slugs out of that thing is horrible. lol

I've rung an 18" gong ten for ten at 150 with a Ruger Mark II shooting offhand. I'm sure it's doable with a slug from a Serbu once you get the hold figured out.

emt1581
10-19-2011, 05:15
I've rung an 18" gong ten for ten at 150 with a Ruger Mark II shooting offhand. I'm sure it's doable with a slug from a Serbu once you get the hold figured out.

I'm guessing you'll have to benchrest/bag it as well.

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
10-19-2011, 05:35
I'm guessing you'll have to benchrest/bag it as well.

-Emt1581

It certainly wouldn't hurt.

emt1581
10-19-2011, 05:42
It certainly wouldn't hurt.

Oh I think slugs out of a 6.5" to 8.5" barrel is going to hurt no matter how you slice it!! :supergrin:

Call it masochistic tendencies but I'm anxious to see the results!

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
10-19-2011, 05:55
Oh I think slugs out of a 6.5" to 8.5" barrel is going to hurt no matter how you slice it!! :supergrin:

Call it masochistic tendencies but I'm anxious to see the results!

-Emt1581

Hurt a little for you, hurt a LOT for the poor bastard on the other end. :rofl:

emt1581
10-19-2011, 14:52
I'm confused here...

There are several different places that carry these. However on gunbroker, some places list them as being 6.5 and others 8.5 in terms of barrel length. Some places list 3+1 others 2+1. Now 2+1 and 6.5" makes sense. But the same capacity and longer barrel does not. Same thing with adding two inches...it wouldn't be enough room to fit a 2.75" shell...

So how many version of these are there?? Will an 8.5" barrel fit three rounds in the magazine?

I just want to make sure I know exactly what I'm getting when I get one.

Thanks

-Emt1581

John Dorsey
10-19-2011, 15:00
http://www.precisionweaponscorp.com/

PWC SAW

I have one and have been satisfied with it thus far. About 200 rounds thru it. Had it for years. Its neat.

Glock 1
10-19-2011, 19:25
Also makes one hell of a surprise for carjackers when loaded with #4 or #1 buck. :whistling:

Ooh, I like that idea. I bet it is sobering. Lol

emt1581
10-23-2011, 18:56
Well I'm going to have one custom made.

I can either pick a 2+1 OR 3+1 model.

It's a decision I still haven't made yet. I mean 4 shots means 2-3 extra inches. 3 shots means less capability in a pinch but around a 6.5" barrel.

What are your thoughts on the issue?

EDIT: BTW, I'm going with a Mossberg for the base model. I like the grip angle and feel as well as the positioning for the safety. Additionally on the 870 you have to alternate your grip to hit the release. I don't care for that.

Thanks

-Emt1581

3rdgen40
10-23-2011, 19:03
Why not just get a Taurus Judge?

DylanPowell
10-23-2011, 19:03
Wait a minute! Are you looking for a SBS?

emt1581
10-23-2011, 19:04
Wait a minute! Are you looking for a SBS?

As in the title...AOW.

-Emt1581

DylanPowell
10-23-2011, 19:07
As in the title...AOW.

-Emt1581

Sarcasm

emt1581
02-11-2012, 22:33
I forgot to update the thread...so I went with an 8.5" which holds 3+1.

Hopefully I'll get it sometime this summer....

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
02-11-2012, 22:37
Why not just get a Taurus Judge?

Because the velocity sucks, the patterns suck, and 12ga packs WAY more punch than .410?

emt1581
02-11-2012, 22:49
Because the velocity sucks, the patterns suck, and 12ga packs WAY more punch than .410?

Amen reverend! :dancingbanana:

-Emt1581

Haldor
02-12-2012, 07:42
Why not just get a Taurus Judge?

Because .410 <<< 12 gauge.

Haldor
02-12-2012, 07:43
I forgot to update the thread...so I went with an 8.5" which holds 3+1.

Hopefully I'll get it sometime this summer....

-Emt1581

Got a link to where you got it? I am interested in something like this as well. Also interested in an AOW for the same reason you are (no long-arm car carry in my state either).

Njanear
02-12-2012, 08:33
Question on AOWs: If you bought an AOW (say a Mossberg 590 with a 14" barrel) and then decided it was too long, could you then cut it down (or swap out the barrel and mag tube) to make one that was shorter WITHOUT having to modify any paperwork?

Just curious. :dunno:

emt1581
02-12-2012, 08:44
Got a link to where you got it? I am interested in something like this as well. Also interested in an AOW for the same reason you are (no long-arm car carry in my state either).

No link. It's basically a husband and wife that make them/run the company AFAIK but they turn out some quality stuff.

Go to gunbroker and punch in aow. You only get a few results. They are the ones advertising an 8.5" barreled Mossberg AOW. The name of the company is Long Range Precision. They are in TN and if you search that you'll find the owner's name (Brad) and phone number.

Hope this helps.

-Emt1581

emt1581
02-12-2012, 08:51
Question on AOWs: If you bought an AOW (say a Mossberg 590 with a 14" barrel) and then decided it was too long, could you then cut it down (or swap out the barrel and mag tube) to make one that was shorter WITHOUT having to modify any paperwork?

Just curious. :dunno:

I don't think so to be honest. I mean usually the length of the barrel is one of the components that gets registered on the form. So if you alter it, the piece no longer fits the description on the form.

But I've been curios about the same thing in case I want to go from 8.5 to 6.5 inches for the barrel...shouldn't be an issue though and I'd probably buy another one with how relatively cheap they are. It'd give me an excuse to try a Rem. 870 design...

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
02-12-2012, 11:25
I don't think so to be honest. I mean usually the length of the barrel is one of the components that gets registered on the form. So if you alter it, the piece no longer fits the description on the form.

But I've been curios about the same thing in case I want to go from 8.5 to 6.5 inches for the barrel...shouldn't be an issue though and I'd probably buy another one with how relatively cheap they are. It'd give me an excuse to try a Rem. 870 design...

-Emt1581

All it takes is an amendment letter filed to the ATF, same as an SBR. It's a good idea to do it if you have multiple barrels, but if you make a permanent change to the configuration, you MUST notify the ATF in writing.

While you can change your barrel length on an AOW, an AOW shotgun can NEVER have a stock attached to it, or it becomes an unregistered SBS.

An AOW transfer tax is $5, but the making tax (ie: registering one to build yourself) is $200 - the same as the making and transfer taxes of a SBS. So, if you decide to build one yourself, you might as well register it as an SBS so you have the option of a stock.

emt1581
02-12-2012, 12:33
All it takes is an amendment letter filed to the ATF, same as an SBR. It's a good idea to do it if you have multiple barrels, but if you make a permanent change to the configuration, you MUST notify the ATF in writing.

While you can change your barrel length on an AOW, an AOW shotgun can NEVER have a stock attached to it, or it becomes an unregistered SBS.

An AOW transfer tax is $5, but the making tax (ie: registering one to build yourself) is $200 - the same as the making and transfer taxes of a SBS. So, if you decide to build one yourself, you might as well register it as an SBS so you have the option of a stock.

You just gave me an amazing idea!!!...and well...question...

Can shotguns have differing magazine tubes? If that's the case, depending on if this thing has the barrel WELDED or just CLAMPED to the mag...I could buy a different mag/barrel and just switch the clamp and instantly have two setups for one receiver. But I'm wondering if that can be interchanged or if it is registered as permanent.

But yeah, I could go from a 3+1 8.5" setup to a 2+1 6.5" setup...if 2 inches really makes any functional difference...

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
02-12-2012, 18:10
You just gave me an amazing idea!!!...and well...question...

Can shotguns have differing magazine tubes? If that's the case, depending on if this thing has the barrel WELDED or just CLAMPED to the mag...I could buy a different mag/barrel and just switch the clamp and instantly have two setups for one receiver. But I'm wondering if that can be interchanged or if it is registered as permanent.

But yeah, I could go from a 3+1 8.5" setup to a 2+1 6.5" setup...if 2 inches really makes any functional difference...

-Emt1581

No idea on changing mag tubes. I'd imagine it's dependent on manufacturer and model.
On the ATF front, if you buy it with an 8.5" and can also fit a 6.5" (examples), and it's registered with the 8.5, then you need to file an amendment letter for the 6.5", as you don't want to have a SHORTER barrel than what's on the Form 4. Send the ATF a regular, typed letter (in duplicate) notifying them of the change (you can add the second barrel as an alternate configuration). They will send the second copy back with ATF approval attached in about a week and a half.

If your second barrel is LONGER than the registered configuration, and you retain the original, shorter barrel, then no amendment letter should be needed - but it's always a good idea to do just in case.

emt1581
02-12-2012, 18:15
No idea on changing mag tubes. I'd imagine it's dependent on manufacturer and model.
On the ATF front, if you buy it with an 8.5" and can also fit a 6.5" (examples), and it's registered with the 8.5, then you need to file an amendment letter for the 6.5", as you don't want to have a SHORTER barrel than what's on the Form 4. Send the ATF a regular, typed letter (in duplicate) notifying them of the change (you can add the second barrel as an alternate configuration). They will send the second copy back with ATF approval attached in about a week and a half.

If your second barrel is LONGER than the registered configuration, and you retain the original, shorter barrel, then no amendment letter should be needed - but it's always a good idea to do just in case.

That's pretty cool though to be able to adapt it like that with just a letter...

As far as my AOW, I'm actually talking about my problem over on ARF.com but it's been 3mos.+ just waiting for the form 3 to come back so the manufacturer/dealer can ship the gun to my dealer. I was told it should only take a few weeks if that. However, this manufacturer is also know to not give out the serial numbers of his pieces (even though I've already paid him for it). But I shot him an email asking for it so we'll see. I just want to be able to call up the ATF or have my dealer do it, and see what's going on.

I'm just wondering what I can do if he won't give me the serial number....?

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
02-12-2012, 18:21
That's pretty cool though to be able to adapt it like that with just a letter...

As far as my AOW, I'm actually talking about my problem over on ARF.com but it's been 3mos.+ just waiting for the form 3 to come back so the manufacturer/dealer can ship the gun to my dealer. I was told it should only take a few weeks if that. However, this manufacturer is also know to not give out the serial numbers of his pieces (even though I've already paid him for it). But I shot him an email asking for it so we'll see. I just want to be able to call up the ATF or have my dealer do it, and see what's going on.

I'm just wondering what I can do if he won't give me the serial number....?

-Emt1581

If it's been 3 months for a F3, something's not right. The dealer receiving it should have the info off the F3, and you can use that to follow up with the ATF.

emt1581
02-12-2012, 18:28
If it's been 3 months for a F3, something's not right. The dealer receiving it should have the info off the F3, and you can use that to follow up with the ATF.

Nope, AFAIK my dealer has no info...he's just given him a copy of his license. Plus my dealer has said this guy does NOT give anyone the serial number. Again, what can I do?

Thanks

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
02-12-2012, 18:30
Nope, AFAIK my dealer has no info...he's just given him a copy of his license. Plus my dealer has said this guy does NOT give anyone the serial number. Again, what can I do?

Thanks

-Emt1581

Sounds like the only recourse is to get in touch with the builder, and find out what is going on. The receiving dealer could try calling the ATF, and see if they have anything pending as being transferred to him, perhaps.

emt1581
02-12-2012, 18:35
Sounds like the only recourse is to get in touch with the builder, and find out what is going on. The receiving dealer could try calling the ATF, and see if they have anything pending as being transferred to him, perhaps.

So if the dealer won't release the serial number seems like he's got a good scheme going...hold off on manufacturing one by one, tell the buyer the forms have been taking a few months, wait until a bunch are ordered and make them all at once, then send the forms in and wait a few weeks....so the ATF is the bad guy and since the process is known to be lengthy...no questions are asked....

If that's true...wouldn't the ATF care about it??

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
02-12-2012, 18:37
So if the dealer won't release the serial number seems like he's got a good scheme going...hold off on manufacturing one by one, tell the buyer the forms have been taking a few months, wait until a bunch are ordered and make them all at once, then send the forms in and wait a few weeks....so the ATF is the bad guy and since the process is known to be lengthy...no questions are asked....

If that's true...wouldn't the ATF care about it??

-Emt1581

Nope, but the BBB might.

emt1581
02-12-2012, 18:41
Nope, but the BBB might.

I'm thinking that'd be an area that they wouldn't know how to touch with a 10-foot pole. I mean we're talking about weapons, wait times for federal gov. approval and I'd have no way of proving anything.

I do want to add that, other than taking a few days to respond to emails sometimes, I've had a pretty good experience in dealing with this guy.

However, if I find out he's not telling the truth with something I'd have no problem contacting the BBB.

I think it just sucks that not having the serial number means I'm powerless in this situation...

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
02-12-2012, 18:50
I'm thinking that'd be an area that they wouldn't know how to touch with a 10-foot pole. I mean we're talking about weapons, wait times for federal gov. approval and I'd have no way of proving anything.

I do want to add that, other than taking a few days to respond to emails sometimes, I've had a pretty good experience in dealing with this guy.

However, if I find out he's not telling the truth with something I'd have no problem contacting the BBB.

I think it just sucks that not having the serial number means I'm powerless in this situation...

-Emt1581

You already paid the builder, right?

emt1581
02-12-2012, 18:54
You already paid the builder, right?

Yes back in early November.

-Emt1581

WoodenPlank
02-12-2012, 18:57
Yes back in early November.

-Emt1581

I'd be a little pissed if I were you...

nipperwolf
02-12-2012, 18:59
I forgot to update the thread...so I went with an 8.5" which holds 3+1.

Hopefully I'll get it sometime this summer....

-Emt1581

Be sure to post pics when you get it!

emt1581
02-12-2012, 19:13
I'd be a little pissed if I were you...

But again, what can I do??

-Emt1581

DreamWeaver88
02-12-2012, 20:12
After reading this........Serbu is the company I'll be dealing with when I decide to get an AOW.

matt_lowry123
02-12-2012, 20:33
Dude, you really can't do anything and it sucks!!! I know because I've been through the same damn thing!!! I think I waited 5-6 months for a suppressor, then about the same time length for the stamp. It sucks and I feel for you!!!

emt1581
02-12-2012, 21:09
After reading this........Serbu is the company I'll be dealing with when I decide to get an AOW.

Serbu is also around $200-$250 more expensive than this guy/place. But if this turns into something then yes, absolutely!!!

-Emt1581

emt1581
02-12-2012, 21:10
Dude, you really can't do anything and it sucks!!! I know because I've been through the same damn thing!!! I think I waited 5-6 months for a suppressor, then about the same time length for the stamp. It sucks and I feel for you!!!

Wait...with the SAME guy/company??

-Emt1581

Firewire
11-24-2012, 20:59
http://www.precisionweaponscorp.com/

PWC SAW

I have one and have been satisfied with it thus far. About 200 rounds thru it. Had it for years. Its neat.

What do you think of the AR foregrip though?