Went to the range today-had 2 squib rounds in one box of ammo [Archive] - Glock Talk

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jacquejet
10-16-2011, 17:20
Went to the range today. Stopped at Wal-Mart to get a box of .38 special among other things. Bought one box of Winchester white box 100 count.

When it got time to shoot the .38, about 3/4 of the way throughout the 1st 50, I had a squib round. First time I've ever had one. Just like it is described, just a little "piff" sound. Managed to get the bullet out of the barrel. Told my son how rare something like this is and I was glad he got to see one for his future refence.

Finished off the first fifty rounds and started on the second half. The first one I shot in the second set, same thing. That was it for the .38. First, the rest of the box was major suspect. Plus, in removing the bullet, I used an old cleaning rod and the side of my stapler to tap/ hammer it out and the barrel/ forcing cone moved rearward to the point that the cylinder won't go into battery. I didn't think I was hitting it all that hard (obviously wrong) and I didn't think the barrel would shift back like that.

I was surprised at how tightly the bullet was seated in the barrel. My son was just as surprised.

All in all, a real learning experience. Nothing broken (well not too much); no exploded gun and no one hurt, but a good lesson why you wear eye protection.

I am going to contact Winchester tomorrow and see what they say.

Have any of you had squibs and any comments on such a bad box of ammo?

RVER
10-16-2011, 18:00
Thank God no one was hurt and GREAT job on being attentive. Over the past twenty plus years in LE I have had several rounds loaded out of Spec. I recall numerous Win STHP rounds seated too deeply into the case in the 80's, (1) Fed HSHP loaded backwards into the case, and (1) Fed FMJ with a primer loaded side ways. INSPECT WHAT YOUR LOADING.

Thanks buddy, glad you and your son are OK.

Ajon412
10-16-2011, 18:21
Went to the range today. Stopped at Wal-Mart to get a box of .38 special among other things. Bought one box of Winchester white box 100 count.

When it got time to shoot the .38, about 3/4 of the way throughout the 1st 50, I had a squib round. First time I've ever had one. Just like it is described, just a little "piff" sound. Managed to get the bullet out of the barrel. Told my son how rare something like this is and I was glad he got to see one for his future refence.

Finished off the first fifty rounds and started on the second half. The first one I shot in the second set, same thing. That was it for the .38. First, the rest of the box was major suspect. Plus, in removing the bullet, I used an old cleaning rod and the side of my stapler to tap/ hammer it out and the barrel/ forcing cone moved rearward to the point that the cylinder won't go into battery. I didn't think I was hitting it all that hard (obviously wrong) and I didn't think the barrel would shift back like that.

I was surprised at how tightly the bullet was seated in the barrel. My son was just as surprised.

All in all, a real learning experience. Nothing broken (well not too much); no exploded gun and no one hurt, but a good lesson why you wear eye protection.

I am going to contact Winchester tomorrow and see what they say.

Have any of you had squibs and any comments on such a bad box of ammo?

What firearm were you using?

jacquejet
10-16-2011, 18:49
what firearm were you using?

s&w 642

What was really odd to me was when I removed the casing, it looked just the same as a normally fired round, in that the outside of the casing was just as powder coated (or mostly so) and dirty.

Above, I said two squibs in one 100 count box. More accurate was 2 squibs in the first 51 rounds of a 100 count box.

I could feel loose powder in a couple of other rounds. Should you be able to feel the powder shaking inside a factory loaded cartridge?

DaBigBR
10-17-2011, 08:28
I could feel loose powder in a couple of other rounds. Should you be able to feel the powder shaking inside a factory loaded cartridge?

The 38 Special cartridge is long enough that it wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

AA#5
10-17-2011, 10:57
When I first got into shooting, I had one squib (no powder charge) with one handload a friend loaded for me (careless). I've never had any problems since I started handloading 33 years ago.

I have had dead primers with factory ammo - two with Federal American Eagle 9mm & 40 S&W & Winchester 00 Buck. In both cases, a letter to the companies was answered with coupons for two boxes of free ammo.

m2hmghb
10-17-2011, 14:10
You might want to check the mainspring screw to make sure it's tight. One of the more common issues is that the screw can back out and lesson the tension of the mainspring causing light primer strikes.

Kadetklapp
10-17-2011, 14:42
Crap automatic!

I'm surprised the barrel backed out of your pistol. Is something like that a thing you can handle, or are you going to need to find a gunsmith to fix it?

I would definitely be blowing up Winchester's phone. I've got quite a bit of WWB in the stash.

jacquejet
10-17-2011, 19:37
You might want to check the mainspring screw to make sure it's tight. One of the more common issues is that the screw can back out and lesson the tension of the mainspring causing light primer strikes.

The primer had a firing pin strike identical to all the other strikes on everything else I fired yesterday, so I don't think that was the problem.

jacquejet
10-17-2011, 19:43
Crap automatic!

I'm surprised the barrel backed out of your pistol. Is something like that a thing you can handle, or are you going to need to find a gunsmith to fix it?

I would definitely be blowing up Winchester's phone. I've got quite a bit of WWB in the stash.

I called Winschester Ammo this afternoon. The guy I talked to wanted me to send him the remainder of the ammo and the box. He wanted the cases as well but I didn't think to save them (well actually I did, they are just mixed in with the 49 other spent cases). He also wants the bullets which I think I kept.

I mentioned the gun and the barrel to him suggesting that Winchester might have some responsibility for the problems with it. He wants me to send the gun as well, so maybe I'll get some relief for that.

bruzer
10-17-2011, 20:02
Glad you recognized it and no one was hurt. I've heard lots of stories about firing a round after the squib. No good for sure. Good luck,
Mike

m2hmghb
10-17-2011, 21:07
The primer had a firing pin strike identical to all the other strikes on everything else I fired yesterday, so I don't think that was the problem.

Neither do I, but stranger things have happened. The powder could have gotten contaminated, or there might not have been powder in the cases. Good luck getting everything fixed.

jpa
10-17-2011, 21:11
When I first got into shooting, I had one squib (no powder charge) with one handload a friend loaded for me (careless). I've never had any problems since I started handloading 33 years ago.

I have had dead primers with factory ammo - two with Federal American Eagle 9mm & 40 S&W & Winchester 00 Buck. In both cases, a letter to the companies was answered with coupons for two boxes of free ammo.

LOL....so you sent them a letter that you had a problem with their ammo and they sent you....a coupon for more of their ammo? Gotta love that customer service. Granted you probably experienced a fluke with the factory ammo but still.

I called Winschester Ammo this afternoon. The guy I talked to wanted me to send him the remainder of the ammo and the box. He wanted the cases as well but I didn't think to save them (well actually I did, they are just mixed in with the 49 other spent cases). He also wants the bullets which I think I kept.

I mentioned the gun and the barrel to him suggesting that Winchester might have some responsibility for the problems with it. He wants me to send the gun as well, so maybe I'll get some relief for that.

I'd say send them all the spent cases and the bullets but take pictures of it all including the barcodes and any stamping/imprints on the ammo box. I dunno if I'd send them the gun, more than likely I'd send the gun to S&W and have the bill for any repairs sent to Winchester.

larry_minn
10-17-2011, 22:26
They must make the 642 in a unique way. The S&W I have seen (basicly any revolver) the barrel/forcing cone/etc are one piece?? Its threaded onto "IIRC Crane?"

Maybe they make them in parts now?

Sorry to hear about your trouble.

blueiron
10-17-2011, 23:18
WWB ammo is frankly lousy ammo these days. I have been told, but have no conclusive evidence, that Olin subcontracts production of this budget ammo out and labels it as theirs.

There are many reports across the Web of squib loads in the WWB caliber loadings.

In the .38 Special loading, I would expect to hear powder rattling around in a cartridge case. Although I have been out of handloading for about eight years now. I cannot think of a smokeless powder that is bulky enough to fill a .38 Special case with a typical bullet weight loading.

Firearm construction has nothing to do with squib loads. It is either a no powder or insufficient powder load in the cartridge case.

jacquejet
11-28-2011, 16:07
Some follow up on the incident with the squib rounds.

A couple of days after the squibs, I contacted Wichester/Olin Corp and their technical section. They requested I send everything I had left (the box, unfired ammo, the squib bullets, the spent casings, and the gun). They provided UPS mailing labels and covered the costs.

I got a letter from them last Wednesday saying that while a cause for the squibs could not be determined, they had sent the gun (S&W 642) to Smith and Wesson for repair at their expense and also sent me a coupon for $50.00 in ammo.

All in all, I am well pleased at their response, and for me, at least, my experience with their customer service has been 1st rate.

All I need now is my gun back to see how it fires.

Kadetklapp
11-28-2011, 19:44
Some follow up on the incident with the squib rounds.

A couple of days after the squibs, I contacted Wichester/Olin Corp and their technical section. They requested I send everything I had left (the box, unfired ammo, the squib bullets, the spent casings, and the gun). They provided UPS mailing labels and covered the costs.

I got a letter from them last Wednesday saying that while a cause for the squibs could not be determined, they had sent the gun (S&W 642) to Smith and Wesson for repair at their expense and also sent me a coupon for $50.00 in ammo.

All in all, I am well pleased at their response, and for me, at least, my experience with their customer service has been 1st rate.

All I need now is my gun back to see how it fires.

God Almighty they sent YOUR gun to a repair center without your consent? Shesh. Good thing you are a reasonable person.

I'm frankly looking at all of my WWB as suspect. What I have on hand is for SHTF use only and is mostly 9mm and .45 ACP.

jacquejet
11-28-2011, 20:10
God Almighty they sent YOUR gun to a repair center without your consent?

When I originally sent the gun to them, I said I thought they has responsibility for the gun no longer working. I didn't care if they did the work or if Smith did it. As far as I am concerned, they had my permission.

Besides, if I had sent the gun to S&W, I don't think the work would have been done for free.

It will be interesting to know how much it costs to make the gun right.

Detectorist
11-28-2011, 21:22
Glad no one was injured. It looks like great customer service from Winchester.

AA#5
11-28-2011, 21:57
[QUOTE=jpa;18055004]LOL....so you sent them a letter that you had a problem with their ammo and they sent you....a coupon for more of their ammo? Gotta love that customer service. Granted you probably experienced a fluke with the factory ammo but still.

:rofl: Yeah, like a restaurant offering a free meal after getting food poisoning from their last meal.

I just remembered another one (not a squib). In a 100-rd. box of WWB 9mm, four rounds had crushed case necks.

HexHead
11-29-2011, 05:57
God Almighty they sent YOUR gun to a repair center without your consent? Shesh. Good thing you are a reasonable person.



Why would you have a problem with them sending the gun back to the manufacturer for repair on their dime? Seems to me that would be the best possible outcome as far as the gun is concerned.

Kadetklapp
11-29-2011, 07:27
Why would you have a problem with them sending the gun back to the manufacturer for repair on their dime? Seems to me that would be the best possible outcome as far as the gun is concerned.

Because they sent me a letter after the fact telling me about it. IMO, they should ASK you what you want done with the gun, but the OP has pointed out he told them by letter what he wanted done, so it's moot.

Jim
11-29-2011, 20:19
On another forum a LEO told that his department had recently tested something like 500 rds of Winchester as a possible duty ammo in a Glock, and 500 ins a Sig, I think it was .40 S&W.

He said they had a surprising number of failures to fire in both guns. Many of the rounds fired on a second hit (try that in a gunfight?) but some did not. He was not impressed.

Someone else claimed Winchester has recently moved their ammo production further south (Missouri?), supposedly for lower labor costs. Hmmm...

Magicmanmb
11-30-2011, 16:21
Every box of WWB from all local sources look like bad reloads. Doesn't matter about caliber. 38, 40, .308. Had double charges. Called Olin had a call tag the next day. Got the customer service to admit known problems but being handled case by case. Sent me a coupon for more ammo. Found some ranger XT used the coupon to buy that.

jacquejet
12-20-2011, 08:52
As a follow up, I just got the gun back from Winchester-Olin. They sent the gun (S&W 642) to Smith and Wesson who replaced the cylinder, yoke, and extractor rod, all on Winchester's dime.

All in all, I can't say anything but good things about Winchester's customer service. Getting this fixed didn't cost me a dime (except for being without the gun). Granted that their ammo was bad, but they stepped up and took care of the damage it caused.

Obviously, your mileage might vary, but I am satisfied with with Winchester.

Magicmanmb
12-28-2011, 11:27
On another forum a LEO told that his department had recently tested something like 500 rds of Winchester as a possible duty ammo in a Glock, and 500 ins a Sig, I think it was .40 S&W.

He said they had a surprising number of failures to fire in both guns. Many of the rounds fired on a second hit (try that in a gunfight?) but some did not. He was not impressed.

Someone else claimed Winchester has recently moved their ammo production further south (Missouri?), supposedly for lower labor costs. Hmmm...

Moved it to Mississippi.

Magicmanmb
12-28-2011, 11:36
As a follow up, I just got the gun back from Winchester-Olin. They sent the gun (S&W 642) to Smith and Wesson who replaced the cylinder, yoke, and extractor rod, all on Winchester's dime.

All in all, I can't say anything but good things about Winchester's customer service. Getting this fixed didn't cost me a dime (except for being without the gun). Granted that their ammo was bad, but they stepped up and took care of the damage it caused.

Obviously, your mileage might vary, but I am satisfied with with Winchester.

Think about this what if instead of just the pistol you were missing a few fingers. Major KB face damage eye's lost. I'm still seeing the the same ammo in stores here. My wife tried some of the PDX I used the coupon for I;m now waiting for my FNP to come back cracked the frame. I'm not purchasing or using any winchester ammo again. My favorite pistol trashed, ammo had a double charge in every round.