Low-recoil loads poor choice for home defense/combat shotgun? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kadetklapp
10-17-2011, 11:53
Even with my new Knoxx "recoil absorbing" stock, my 870 still kicks like a mule. My Saiga is brutal to shoot. I don't enjoy shooting shotgun anymore simply because the recoil is more than I want to deal with. I've never shot "low recoil" marked loads, but I might start if it makes my weapons more manageable. Are low recoil loads poor choices for a combat gun?

BBJones
10-17-2011, 12:23
They are an excellent choice for home defense. They are also an excellent choice since you will actually go out and shoot and practice with the SG that you are planning to keep for HD. You might also want a recoil pad for your shotguns.

If you want to practice without burning thru expensive ammo, you can also shoot weak bird shot.

WoodenPlank
10-17-2011, 12:29
They are an excellent choice for home defense. They are also an excellent choice since you will actually go out and shoot and practice with the SG that you are planning to keep for HD. You might also want a recoil pad for your shotguns.

If you want to practice without burning thru expensive ammo, you can also shoot weak bird shot.

Bingo. Plus the low recoil loads tend to be buffered and pattern tighter.

JK-linux
10-17-2011, 12:33
I use low recoil 12 gauge loads in my 870. No problems here. I'm sure someone will break out some drywall/gelatin test and say they suck, but I don't really care. I can repeatedly and rapidly hit anything I shoot at within 50 feet using them. I doubt many people will shake off a hit, even if it's through drywall. Even then, if I'm still having trouble after the 6 rounds in my 870's tube, there are four low recoil slugs in my side saddle.

Kadetklapp
10-17-2011, 12:49
Thanks folks. I used to be big into buying Magnum 3" shotgun ammo, but now that I'm getting "old" I don't find it nearly as fun as I used too. Not sure if my shoulder is giving me fits, but even a few rounds of 2 and 3/4" 00 buck is enough to make me switch to something else.

ScrappyDoo
10-17-2011, 12:58
There was a huge major thread revival and dust up over this but- I cannot say enough how much of a difference the LimbSaver makes.

Also- reduced recoil loads work pretty well for me- I didn't know some of my purchased 00 Buck varieties WERE reduced recoil, and they performed great. And my M930SPX is an autoloading gas gun, which gets picked on for reliability (not MINE, the genre I mean) - even though mine has been diesel engine Hummer reliable-

Reduced recoil thru an 870? Can;t imagine u'd have a speck of trouble. Try em out.

Kadetklapp
10-17-2011, 13:06
My concerns are "knock down power" in the 870 and cyclic ability in the Saiga. I am running a stock gas plug in that gun so I doubt it would work real well. The reason I'm concerned about it is this winter I'd like to buy a case of shotgun ammo, as in, 500-1000 rounds or so. I'd like something I can use but still be *deadly* powerful.

WoodenPlank
10-17-2011, 13:21
My concerns are "knock down power" in the 870 and cyclic ability in the Saiga. I am running a stock gas plug in that gun so I doubt it would work real well. The reason I'm concerned about it is this winter I'd like to buy a case of shotgun ammo, as in, 500-1000 rounds or so. I'd like something I can use but still be *deadly* powerful.

It may have issues cycling in a Saiga (even though I imagine that's not too hard to fix), but I have zero concern about stopping power with low recoil 00.

off road
10-17-2011, 15:14
I have some Federal H132 00. Shells from some boxes say 'low recoil', and others say 'tactical'....same load (1140 fps). So, I presume this is what they are marketing for entry teams.

1canvas
10-17-2011, 15:41
There was a huge major thread revival and dust up over this but- I cannot say enough how much of a difference the LimbSaver makes

i will second the Limbsaver. if you want to know real recoil out of a 12 try high end turkey loads, they are brutal. i bought a Limbsaver pad and WOW. i would never believe a recoil pad could make that much difference.

dkf
10-17-2011, 15:48
Shoot some 3" 12ga slugs out of a fully rifled slug barrel once. The 3" max turkey loads will seem mild in comparison.

If your looking to purchase a whole case in the future buy small quantities of several different loads and try them out. Pick the load you like the best and buy a case of it.

aippi
10-17-2011, 19:37
Learn to shoot the SpecOps and your issue is over. I can be about certain you are not shooting it correctly. Go to www.aiptactical.com (http://www.aiptactical.com) and click on the red link "Breaking in the 870" and scroll down to the part on shooting recoil reducing stocks. Follow that and if the recoil is still and issue then your stock is defective. I know this because my neighbor borrowed my turkey gun which is a 12ga 870 with SpecOps for his 11 year old daughter and she loved shooting it so much she bugged the heck out of him, calling him constantly about when he would be home from work so she could shoot. And this 11 year girl is very petiet for 11 years old.

Ferdinandd
10-17-2011, 19:48
Practice and technique has improved my ability to make fast, accurate follow-up shots. I don't have a spec-ops but do value having a good recoil pad on an SG.


As far as ammo goes, I think that if you can reduce recoil by reducing the number of pellets but retaining the velocity, that's the way to go. With 00bk, for example, you would go from 9 pellets at max energy, down to eight pellets at max energy. IMHO, that's better than backing down the energy of all of the pellets delivered. Just my opinion here, based on a few years of reloading BK and amateur load development.

DougW
10-17-2011, 20:22
All the buck and slugs here are some form of reduced recoil. I run it through both M1 Super90's (recoil operating system) and they run flawlessly.

glockenturm
10-17-2011, 20:29
Learn to shoot the SpecOps and your issue is over. I can be about certain you are not shooting it correctly. Go to www.aiptactical.com (http://www.aiptactical.com) and click on the red link "Breaking in the 870" and scroll down to the part on shooting recoil reducing stocks. Follow that and if the recoil is still and issue then your stock is defective. I know this because my neighbor borrowed my turkey gun which is a 12ga 870 with SpecOps for his 11 year old daughter and she loved shooting it so much she bugged the heck out of him, calling him constantly about when he would be home from work so she could shoot. And this 11 year girl is very petiet for 11 years old.

+1 on the advice on your website. After I read your tips, shooting my 870 with the SpecOps is an absolute blast.

I get an evil satisfaction watching others put up their shotguns after a few shots.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

myanof
10-17-2011, 20:54
Thanks folks. I used to be big into buying Magnum 3" shotgun ammo, but now that I'm getting "old" I don't find it nearly as fun as I used too. Not sure if my shoulder is giving me fits, but even a few rounds of 2 and 3/4" 00 buck is enough to make me switch to something else.

I hear you Brother. I am 67 now, and practicing for long periods of time with standard 00Buck is out of the question, and I shoot a Model 1100 with an 18 1/2" barrel for HD which is a soft shooting gas operated shotgun.

I now load up with Federal LE132 9 pellet 00Buck reduced recoil with flite control. At 15 yds this stuff shoots about a 5-8" pattern and is like shooting a low base practice load. In fact for practice I do shoot practice loads.

Not very tacticool, but very reliable and functional, and I have been shooting it since 1967. I bought the factory barrel at Midway.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/myanof/DSCN0995.jpg

Vigilant
10-17-2011, 21:09
Sounds to me like the OP might have accumulated some wear and tear in the shoulder down through the years. I have a hunch that's the culprit in his case.

I'm 55, and had rotator cuff surgery on my right shoulder. The only shotgun that I ever dreaded running buck through was an Ithaca M37. I do just fine with full-house buck at the range with one of several 870Ps, but this thread has me thinking seriously about going with reduced recoil loads, just in case.

Also to the OP, my employer, a state correctional agency, issues reduced recoil 00 buck ammo. If they had any doubt at all about its effectiveness, they would have stayed with full-house loads.

Sounds like the reduced recoil version of Federal Flite Control is the way to go these days.

Texas357
10-17-2011, 21:19
I shoot reduced recoil buckshot. I've got nothing to prove to anyone, and I dare the coroner to note a difference if I ever have to use it.

NEOH212
10-18-2011, 02:48
I use low recoil 12 gauge loads in my 870. No problems here. I'm sure someone will break out some drywall/gelatin test and say they suck, but I don't really care. I can repeatedly and rapidly hit anything I shoot at within 50 feet using them. I doubt many people will shake off a hit, even if it's through drywall. Even then, if I'm still having trouble after the 6 rounds in my 870's tube, there are four low recoil slugs in my side saddle.

+1 :thumbsup:

Kadetklapp
10-18-2011, 07:08
Learn to shoot the SpecOps and your issue is over. I can be about certain you are not shooting it correctly. Go to www.aiptactical.com (http://www.aiptactical.com) and click on the red link "Breaking in the 870" and scroll down to the part on shooting recoil reducing stocks. Follow that and if the recoil is still and issue then your stock is defective. I know this because my neighbor borrowed my turkey gun which is a 12ga 870 with SpecOps for his 11 year old daughter and she loved shooting it so much she bugged the heck out of him, calling him constantly about when he would be home from work so she could shoot. And this 11 year girl is very petiet for 11 years old.

Interesting read. Had no idea. Yes, I got smacked in the face several times by the receiver. Also, other than an installation manual, there was no other instruction in my package on using the stock. I'll have to try this next time out.

Aceman
10-19-2011, 20:19
The last time I had my HD gun out I did maybe 45-60 rounds of 2 3/4 slugs.

Tender, but not anything tragic.

For business though, low recoil is just fine. No fears, no concerns.

ScrappyDoo
10-19-2011, 21:07
I shoot reduced recoil buckshot. I've got nothing to prove to anyone, and I dare the coroner to note a difference if I ever have to use it.


I think you about summed it up.

Now I admit I don't hunt and really don't plan on it. Maybe would like to try different types of hunting someday, its kind of a pain in NJ to get the courses done , go to the actual classes and take the tests etc. and then the actual written test to get the license, and buy each seasons permit, really doesnt encourage ppl to give hunting a go in this state .. BUT lets say I did.

I would suck it up and use the necessary/powerful rounds for each trip. I.e. if I went turkey shootin I would use 3 1/2 rounds and take that mule kick cause i figure, one shot one kkill lol! And I'd use a nice big 3" 00Buck or slug for deers, and whatever was necessary.



Otherwise, Forrrrrrrrget it. Birdshot at the indoor range for fun and blast practice. Reduced Recoil 00 buck when shooting for fun. Even for HD, why not. Im not too proud to admit it hurts my shoulder when I blast away ful power and its alot nicer to shoot less hurtin' rounds.

CAcop
10-20-2011, 11:12
For the most part reduced recoil ammo is just a pellet taken out and 100-200 fps taken off the velocity. It helps to prevent deformation of the buckshot which means it is more likely to fly straighter and pattern tighter. The loss of velocity probably puts the energy level for each pellet around 15-25 yards for standard buckshot. Buckshot is still lethal at 25 yards right?

Big Bird
10-21-2011, 06:52
Yup, if you can't stand the recoil from a 12 gauge with standard loads you are doing something wrong. Your form is off for sure. I've taught too many smaller size women in the 100lb dripping wet category to shoot a shotgun to know better. Hell, one of my shooting buddies when I shot skeet competitively was a small Asian woman and she could go through 250 12 gauge loads in a day and come back the next day for 300 more shots in 20, 28 and .410....

Its all in your form.

JFrame
10-21-2011, 07:44
Interesting read. Had no idea. Yes, I got smacked in the face several times by the receiver. Also, other than an installation manual, there was no other instruction in my package on using the stock. I'll have to try this next time out.


Kadetklapp -- other than the excellent advice from Aippi, keep in mind that the SpecOps stock doesn't seem to really benefit that much from reduced recoil loads (at least, that has been my experience).

It seems like the Knoxx recoil-reduction system relies heavily on the momentum of the shot to activate the springs, which causes the stretching out and "reduction" of the recoil. Standard shotgun loads seem to activate the springs quite handily and positively. However, I honestly noticed no greater reduction in recoil when I went to mild target loads.

YMMV -- but that has been my experience.


.

ronin.45
10-27-2011, 21:13
Low recoil buck is fine for HD. It should cycle your saiga just fine.