Ahhh... The polygraph [Archive] - Glock Talk

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JohnnyReb
10-18-2011, 10:09
Yesterday, I took a polygraph with the state police. The entirety of the polygraph was about 3.5 hrs long, from pre test interview, test, and post test interview.

For those that don't know me, here is a little background on me, I have been a correctional officer since the age of 18, for a local sheriff's office. I'm currently 23. In my five years, I have had numerous commendations, I have attended background investigation/pre employment training, weapons training, suicide awareness training, and I have been disciplined once, for a relatively minor infraction two years ago.

I have taken a total of 3 polygraphs prior to this one, my inital polygraph was a rough time with a lot of accusations and game playing, but I was hired by my agency. My second was with a large federal uniformed LE agency, which went entirely smooth, with no problems (I was treated much better).

My third polygraph was roughly an hour, to an hour and a half, with my current employing agency for a transfer to patrol. This polygraph was roughly two weeks after passing the federal LE polygraph. I thought it went smooth, and at the end the polygrapher came back into the room after my test asking how I thought I did, I told him I'm assuming everything was fine, given the fact I took one two weeks ago and had no issues. He said "ok" and we exited headquarters together.

Two weeks later through the rumor mill at work, I heard my polygraph showed deception. I was never contacted officially regarding this. I contacted my background investigator, whom I'm on first name basis with and attended training with, and he told me my polygraph came back indicating "deception" but unless it was in a certain category, the major would sign off on it. I was then reassured not to stess about it, and everything will be fine.

Two weeks later, I got a letter in my mailbox at work, saying to reapply in a year.

This frustrated me, but I later learned that out of the four correctional officers that applied for patrol, 3 showed "deception" on their polygraphs, while the one who was connected to the sheriff got hired. Politics at its best.

This infuriated me, both with the polygraph process, and with my agency, so I continued to apply elsewhere. One of those places, was a small PD, with approximately 15 officers. The state police is contracted to conduct their polygraphs.

Fast forward to yesterday, I met with a trooper at a local barrack for my polygraph exam. The pre-test interview went well, and I disclosed everything that came to memory, putting all my cards on the table. I moved on to the polygraph exam room, and proceeded to take the test.

As soon as I finished the 3rd chart (the final chart taken), the trooper sits up very quickly, and states in a accusatory tone "What's with the theft question?" I immediately became very ticked off and frustrated. Not only do I get very angry when my integrity is questioned, especially off the basis of squiggly lines of a machine, but I feel like I will get screwed over like polygraph number three.

Then, he says that I indicated strongly on the theft question, domestic violence question, and serious crime question. I become infuriated at this point, and nearly began yelling at the trooper. He then throws out some examples like theft from incarcerated persons, dishonesty on my time sheets, ect.

I have never stolen anything other then what was disclosed in my pre-interview sheet, which was all at a young age.

The trooper then tells me he didn't appreciate my attitude, and I tell him I didn't appreciate having my integrity questioned. He then tells me he can offer a retest but my attitude is getting me nowhere. I told him I will take polygraphs all day long as I have nothing to hide.

I even offered to take another one, right then and there. He of course declined, and said I will be contacted at a later date.


This job, will be a paycut to the tune of about $15,000, and its not so much as a 3rd choice of mine. Its merely a backup plan, to the federal job. I have been informed by the federal agency that I am completely done, and im waiting on a class to be put together. But knowing how federal funding is, it is of course not guaranteed.

My position on the town job is, I would take it if offered, but I'm not going to beg or plead for it. If its not offered to me, I will continue to stay where I am, making more money, and I won't lose any sleep.

It just seems like a lot of BS to go through, for what in more then a couple ways would be a step backward.

My motivation is leaving corrections is because my ultimate career goal is to become a police officer, not babysit all day. This would achieve this goal, which is why I applied in the first place.

I'll take the polygraph retest, if nothing else because I feel my integrity is questioned, and I won't back away from that.

But I won't hold my tongue with the polygrapher either, I will not kiss anyone's ass for this. I'm a very upfront and blunt person, and I will continue to be with the trooper.

Just venting and sharing my experience. Its a long post I know.

:soap:

Kahr_Glockman
10-18-2011, 10:17
I wouldnt have done that, but that's me. A lot of the time the polygraph examiner is fishing for stuff that would disqualify you. Most of them just use it as a tool to get a confession.


<===== Is not an examiner and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express. (I just know a couple of examiners.)

JohnnyReb
10-18-2011, 10:21
What wouldn't you have done?

Kahr_Glockman
10-18-2011, 10:28
Sorry I should have been clearer. I wouldn't have blown up at the examiner. And when I say I wouldnt have done that, I am saying that "I" wouldnt have. I am not saying that you "shouldn't" have.

That is just my personality. I would have just approached as another interview.

Again, not saying that you are wrong in doing what you did. But my thinking is that the "blow-up" is going to make it back to the hiring agency.

YMMV.

JohnnyReb
10-18-2011, 10:47
Sorry I should have been clearer. I wouldn't have blown up at the examiner. And when I say I wouldnt have done that, I am saying that "I" wouldnt have. I am not saying that you "shouldn't" have.

That is just my personality. I would have just approached as another interview.

Again, not saying that you are wrong in doing what you did. But my thinking is that the "blow-up" is going to make it back to the hiring agency.

YMMV.


That is indeed very possible. I don't believe I was necessarily over the top with it, but having someone imply I'm lying, about a serious integrity issue, really chapped my ass.

Before I left, I apologized to the trooper, and told him I just get very upset when my integrity is questioned, as he would be. He agreed.

It's hard to say how its going to come out honestly.

vanilla_gorilla
10-18-2011, 11:12
That is indeed very possible. I don't believe I was necessarily over the top with it, but having someone imply I'm lying, about a serious integrity issue, really chapped my ass.

Before I left, I apologized to the trooper, and told him I just get very upset when my integrity is questioned, as he would be. He agreed.

It's hard to say how its going to come out honestly.

Sounds like he probably got you to do exactly what he wanted you to do. I wouldn't expect to hear back from that agency any time soon.

Sharkey
10-18-2011, 11:22
That is indeed very possible. I don't believe I was necessarily over the top with it, but having someone imply I'm lying, about a serious integrity issue, really chapped my ass.

Before I left, I apologized to the trooper, and told him I just get very upset when my integrity is questioned, as he would be. He agreed.

It's hard to say how its going to come out honestly.

I spent 19yrs in LE with the only thing being in my file -a ltr. of reprimand for missing court. After 10yrs with one agency, they let me go for political reasons.

I've applied with countless agencies and supposedly passed 3 polygraphs and each one has been different. Personally I don't put too much faith in them but a lot of agencies do. I keep getting dinged on my background yet no one tells me what was found. I'm now an Inv. for a state agency that is non commissioned. It really blows that after my unblemished service, I'm now a pariah to everyone. I can sympathize with you.

JohnnyReb
10-18-2011, 11:22
Sounds like he probably got you to do exactly what he wanted you to do. I wouldn't expect to hear back from that agency any time soon.

What was exactly, what he wanted me to do? He was fishing for something that was not there, and I became irritated. If I imply you are a liar, and a thief, how are you going to respond?

I didn't cuss at him, or go beyond an elevated and assertive tone.

Kadetklapp
10-18-2011, 11:31
Ah the polygraph. Another extinct piece of non-relevant equipment used to "shunt" otherwise good officers out of the way so that political hires can sweep the awards ceremony.

They have become so distrusted in my AO that several agencies don't even use them.

JohnnyReb
10-18-2011, 11:36
I believe they can be great tools at times. I disagree with their use in pre-employment, because I believe that's what a good background investigation is for. Not to mention, its completely subjective assuming no "confessions" are made.

Its the one part of the process that's easiest to manipulate. You can't change how a person's background is, the psych, or a drug test. Even oral boards commonly have several people interviewing, asking questions and writing notes.

IGotIt
10-18-2011, 13:01
I can see your point in getting ticked off but losing your cool during any type of interview or testing process will become noted in your investigation folder, with the possibility of being labeled "quick to anger".

BTW, I don't agree with the polygraphs unless there is an indication in the background investigation that something needs to be looked at further.

sulaco
10-18-2011, 14:38
Although I didn't have to take a polygraph (and I am not in law enforcement at all), I was deep-six'd in my background investigation for political reasons. Corrupt people are in all walks of life and I am sure a polygraph is just another means to an end for some. Unfortunate, but it's the way things are.

JohnnyReb
10-18-2011, 15:30
I can see your point in getting ticked off but losing your cool during any type of interview or testing process will become noted in your investigation folder, with the possibility of being labeled "quick to anger".

BTW, I don't agree with the polygraphs unless there is an indication in the background investigation that something needs to be looked at further.

I doubt it was to that extent, its not like I was rattling doors with my voice or anything. But I suppose anything is possible. :dunno:

Pepper45
10-18-2011, 15:44
Stories like this make me glad that pre-employment polygraphs are illegal in Oregon. They're unreliable, and the results are subject to interpretation by the examiner. This makes no sense in what should be a fair evaluation of the candidate's suitability for the job, and set their ranking among their peers.

JohnnyReb
10-18-2011, 15:55
Stories like this make me glad that pre-employment polygraphs are illegal in Oregon. They're unreliable, and the results are subject to interpretation by the examiner. This makes no sense in what should be a fair evaluation of the candidate's suitability for the job, and set their ranking among their peers.

I wish I didn't have to take one man. If they want to know my life story, let them contact every person that has ever known me, co workers and supervisors. My background will stand on its own.

The biggest problem will be, applying to other jobs saying I "failed" a polygraph with the state police. That would not reflect well on me, even though I've done nothing wrong.

Its a sham, and I'm still worked up about it.

The Fist Of Goodness
10-18-2011, 19:18
What was exactly, what he wanted me to do? He was fishing for something that was not there, and I became irritated. If I imply you are a liar, and a thief, how are you going to respond?

I didn't cuss at him, or go beyond an elevated and assertive tone.

It is a screening tactic to see how you react to confrontation or stress. What happens when a defense attorney attacks your integrity on the stand, and you become infuriated and blow the prosecution? You blew up at another LEO doing his job, how would you react to the criminal who accuses you of stealing his drug cash?

Metro566
10-18-2011, 19:31
If you can't handle being drilled by a trooper in a controlled enviroment, how are you going to handle other stressful situations? like was pointed out already with the defense attorney (who may claim you falsified documents), or when someone files a complaint on you saying you stole their iPod after arresting them? Or when you tell someone to do something and they don't listen to you? etc

I was told the psych specifically goes out of their way to get you to blow your top; the guys and gals I tested with who lost their cool aren't sitting in rollcall with everyone...I'll just put it that way

dvrdwn72
10-18-2011, 19:37
It is a screening tactic to see how you react to confrontation or stress. What happens when a defense attorney attacks your integrity on the stand, and you become infuriated and blow the prosecution? You blew up at another LEO doing his job, how would you react to the criminal who accuses you of stealing his drug cash? bingo!

vanilla_gorilla
10-18-2011, 21:00
It is a screening tactic to see how you react to confrontation or stress. What happens when a defense attorney attacks your integrity on the stand, and you become infuriated and blow the prosecution? You blew up at another LEO doing his job, how would you react to the criminal who accuses you of stealing his drug cash?

Exactly what I was getting at.

That's probably the ONLY thing I'd believe the poly is good at.

puckhead
10-18-2011, 21:02
You have to stay calm and stick to your original story through the whole thing. No matter how many times they prob you about a certain topic. They are looking to see if you change your story and to see if you get defensive. If you truly did not do it, why get upset over it? Just repeat your story and get through it.

larry_minn
10-18-2011, 22:14
As most anyone (who does not have a vesting interest in the dang thing) will tell you its as acurate as a Ouije board.

It does sound like it worked well on you. You didn't realize they would LIE to you? Tell you things just to see if you change story/admit to minor faults (that you did not bring up earlier)

Lets be honest you failed AFTER the "test" was over.

JohnnyReb
10-19-2011, 05:57
If you can't handle being drilled by a trooper in a controlled enviroment, how are you going to handle other stressful situations? like was pointed out already with the defense attorney (who may claim you falsified documents), or when someone files a complaint on you saying you stole their iPod after arresting them? Or when you tell someone to do something and they don't listen to you? etc

I was told the psych specifically goes out of their way to get you to blow your top; the guys and gals I tested with who lost their cool aren't sitting in rollcall with everyone...I'll just put it that way

I've been in corrections for 5 years, I can handle stress. And yes, the psych will do that sometimes, I've taken and passed three. I think people are thinking I totally blew my top, that really wasn' t the case. I showed my frustration though, for sure.

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JohnnyReb
10-19-2011, 06:01
As most anyone (who does not have a vesting interest in the dang thing) will tell you its as acurate as a Ouije board.

It does sound like it worked well on you. You didn't realize they would LIE to you? Tell you things just to see if you change story/admit to minor faults (that you did not bring up earlier)

Lets be honest you failed AFTER the "test" was over.

What part did I fail? Getting frustrated by being called a liar? Sure, guilty as charged. And yes, they do lie this was my forth one, I'm not a complete newbie when it comes to this.

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Kadetklapp
10-19-2011, 07:37
What part did I fail? Getting frustrated by being called a liar? Sure, guilty as charged. And yes, they do lie this was my forth one, I'm not a complete newbie when it comes to this.

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I hear ya man, but the fact is he got you to do what he wanted. It's a complete **** show, but if you hadn't of turned on your top, maybe you would have passed. Polys suck, period.

When I got on the sheriff's department 8 years ago, they didn't do polygraph. They did what's called an "Integrity Interview" where a detective more or less accused you of animal rape and banging your sister and all you could do was counter his claims as best you could, with a calm demeanor and hope for the best. I walked out of their feeling like some sort of deviant. It was awful.

JohnnyReb
10-19-2011, 07:56
I hear ya man, but the fact is he got you to do what he wanted. It's a complete **** show, but if you hadn't of turned on your top, maybe you would have passed. Polys suck, period.

When I got on the sheriff's department 8 years ago, they didn't do polygraph. They did what's called an "Integrity Interview" where a detective more or less accused you of animal rape and banging your sister and all you could do was counter his claims as best you could, with a calm demeanor and hope for the best. I walked out of their feeling like some sort of deviant. It was awful.

I'm thinking it was probably inconclusive, since they are offering me another one.

Yes, I'm definitely more irritable right now anyway... I'm scheduled for oral surgery to have all 4 wisdom teeth removed, one of which has been causing me pain for nearly 3 weeks now. I was supposed to have it done yesterday, but when the surgeon squeezed my gum, a lot of infection came out :puking:

Between that and my uncle dying from leukemia, I just have a lot on my mind right now, the last thing I had the patience for was to be interrogated.

Just the way things come together I guess. :dunno:

automan
10-19-2011, 08:15
Polys are a CYA tool for agencies to baseline employees for future problems they may have with agency personnel. Its a better tool to see how the applicant handles stress and pressure more than finding out whether or not their a potential future criminal.

JohnnyReb
10-19-2011, 08:18
I'd have to agree.

scottydl
10-19-2011, 08:28
I've been in corrections for 5 years, I can handle stress.

You may KNOW that, but corrections is entirely different from patrol. Ask anyone who has worked both sides. Everyone who does one may not be cut out for the other (not referring to you because I don't know you, but just in general).

Also although you may KNOW that you aren't hiding anything in the polygraph, the investigator doesn't know that and his/her job is to try and break you... whether that means (1) getting you to eventually give in and lie, (2) give in and tell the truth that you lied, or (3) lose your composure one way or the other because of the stress of the test. BG's on the street will constantly work on #3 also, and you have to be able to keep that in check (no matter what's going on in your personal life any given day) or you will end up the next police youtube casualty.

Deception or not, you did lose your composure. OF COURSE the investigator questioned your integrity... that's the point of a polygraph. You even said that you've been through another one where there were accusations and game-playing, so I'm not sure why this time was different for you.

Take the re-test if it's offered and see how it goes, and good luck to ya. These parts of the testing process really suck, but it's all part of the game.

JohnnyReb
10-19-2011, 08:34
You may KNOW that, but corrections is entirely different from patrol. Ask anyone who has worked both sides. Everyone who does one may not be cut out for the other (not referring to you because I don't know you, but just in general).

Also although you may KNOW that you aren't hiding anything in the polygraph, the investigator doesn't know that and his/her job is to try and break you... whether that means (1) getting you to eventually give in and lie, (2) give in and tell the truth that you lied, or (3) lose your composure one way or the other because of the stress of the test. BG's on the street will constantly work on #3 also, and you have to be able to keep that in check (no matter what's going on in your personal life any given day) or you will end up the next police youtube casualty.

Deception or not, you did lose your composure. OF COURSE the investigator questioned your integrity... that's the point of a polygraph. You even said that you've been through another one where there were accusations and game-playing, so I'm not sure why this time was different for you.

Take the re-test if it's offered and see how it goes, and good luck to ya. These parts of the testing process really suck, but it's all part of the game.

This one is different because of some external stressors. I didn't have the things I listed before, but I also wasn't sleep deprived being on midnights for a month, then having the test mid day. Not making up excuses for my reactions, but I am only human.

And you are right scotty. Thank you.

cowboywannabe
10-19-2011, 08:54
i like how the "examiner" tells you to not be nervous, because, well hell, your entire career is riding on his interpretation. so whats there to be nervous about?

JohnnyReb
10-19-2011, 08:57
i like how the "examiner" tells you to not be nervous, because, well hell, your entire career is riding on his interpretation. so whats there to be nervous about?

Exactly. The bigger problem comes in when its interpreted not in your favor, and its forever held against you in future processes.

I don't think this retest is going to be an issue though, I'm just going to do everything to clear my head, and go in there with a better attitude then before.

At the end, the trooper told me "Your an honest person, that's why you got upset. We will just clear this up with the retest and you should pass with flying colors."

Can I believe that? Who knows :dunno:

MeefZah
10-19-2011, 18:32
I concur that getting an "attitude" with the troop was a bad move (his words).

No doubt in my mind he was fishing for admissions, since the polygraph is the biggest joke ever foisted upon the criminal justice community and relys on the candidate making admissions to be effective. Without admissions they just think you are being deceptive - they might put pen to paper and say you are a liar, but who really knows except you?

I've taken 4 polys, numerous CVSAs, and am an (expired) CVSA examiner... they are all total voodoo science and are merely props to get the weak minded or weak hearted to give up info. "Oooo, the machine says you are lying, so just tell me the truth..." Whatever.

My last poly, which I passed and got the job for, the examiner was a contracted guy like your dude. He was a absolute, total dickface and I sat there, listened to his screaming and accusations, smiled at him calmly, answered his questions appropriately, and busied myself thinking about picking up one of his awards from the desk and stabbing him in the eye with it repeatedly. It's all you can do. Youi gotta tap dance for the jerks.

I spent 19yrs in LE with the only thing being in my file -a ltr. of reprimand for missing court. After 10yrs with one agency, they let me go for political reasons.

I've applied with countless agencies and supposedly passed 3 polygraphs and each one has been different. Personally I don't put too much faith in them but a lot of agencies do. I keep getting dinged on my background yet no one tells me what was found. I'm now an Inv. for a state agency that is non commissioned. It really blows that after my unblemished service, I'm now a pariah to everyone. I can sympathize with you.

My friend, I understand this more than you can know.

You need to file a public record request at every agency you applied with and find out what the disqualifying details are. State laws vary, but I'm pretty confident that a FOIA request will get you much of what you seek.

Sadly, no agency will honestly tell you why you didn't get hired if you just ask them. You have to get all hardball and ****.

Metro566
10-19-2011, 21:00
While I sympathize for your external stressors, bringing them up as a defense doesn't help you much; doing so makes it seem like you are one to bring your personal problems to work.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to knock you down a peg or two, I'm just telling you that losing your composure - "blowing your top" or not - does not say the best on a polygraph.

I've passed multiple poly's; I've turned down offers after passing (for the job I'm at now) and took the opportunities provided to read my results. In a few of them, "reaction to stress" was a catagory listed and I remember reading notations from the administrators of the test stating I remained calm and composed.

Go into them all knowing that they WANT you to get mad, and don't let anything they say get under your skin. One guy tried to accuse me of having a drinking problem because I hadn't drank anything for 2yrs...he called me a liar, said I was worthless as an employee, that he thought I falsified reports, etc. I just remained calm and let him know he can have his opinions but that wasn't the case.


Best of luck to you.

JohnnyReb
10-19-2011, 22:20
While I sympathize for your external stressors, bringing them up as a defense doesn't help you much; doing so makes it seem like you are one to bring your personal problems to work.
Who doesn't at some level? I know I have, and I see others around me that do it as well. We are only human. Now to overwhelm you and hinder your ability to safely perform your duties, that is another issue all together. One I have never had.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to knock you down a peg or two, I'm just telling you that losing your composure - "blowing your top" or not - does not say the best on a polygraph.
No, not at all. I posted this thread to both blow off steam and solicit some responses. I have received some good advice, and some words that put things in perspective for me.

I've passed multiple poly's; I've turned down offers after passing (for the job I'm at now) and took the opportunities provided to read my results. In a few of them, "reaction to stress" was a catagory listed and I remember reading notations from the administrators of the test stating I remained calm and composed.

Go into them all knowing that they WANT you to get mad, and don't let anything they say get under your skin. One guy tried to accuse me of having a drinking problem because I hadn't drank anything for 2yrs...he called me a liar, said I was worthless as an employee, that he thought I falsified reports, etc. I just remained calm and let him know he can have his opinions but that wasn't the case.


Best of luck to you.

Thank you :cool:

nikerret
10-19-2011, 22:40
The only problem I had with the polygraph (aside from a lot to talk about) was filling out the 27 page questionaire as soon as I got it. By the time the two weeks passed and I actually had my appointment, my packet had been reprinted a few times and still had enough scratchouts to convince anyone I let a three year old scribble all over it for two hours.

Then, when we did the interviews before getting hooked up, I kept remembering more stuff.

If I have to do it again, I will not look at the packet until the very last minute. You're not being deceptive if you don't remember. Two weeks is a long damn time to have it all on your mind and keep going back further and further.

My polygraph netted me an "extra" interview. Out of all the guys I work with, only one other admits to getting an extra interview just to discuss what we disclosed for the polygraph.

Vigilant
10-20-2011, 08:12
Ah the polygraph. Another extinct piece of non-relevant equipment used to "shunt" otherwise good officers out of the way so that political hires can sweep the awards ceremony.

They have become so distrusted in my AO that several agencies don't even use them.

This.

And look at some of the schmucks that have slipped through. Like the fag in Seattle whose live-in boyfriend used his service weapon to rape someone at gunpoint...

I suspect that a crystal ball might be more accurate.

jellis11
10-20-2011, 09:27
While I'm not a fan of that test... Speaking to him the way you describe probably didn't help your problem. Probably backed up what the test was saying (true or not) in their eyes.

JohnnyReb
10-20-2011, 11:58
While I'm not a fan of that test... Speaking to him the way you describe probably didn't help your problem. Probably backed up what the test was saying (true or not) in their eyes.

Actually, from my experience with interview and interrogations typically accused persons that are "innocent" tend to go out the offensive, the guilty go on the defensive.

vanilla_gorilla
10-20-2011, 21:58
Actually, from my experience with interview and interrogations typically accused persons that are "innocent" tend to go out the offensive, the guilty go on the defensive.

And the professionals remain impassive and only answer what they must.

captdreifus
10-20-2011, 23:41
I'm truly looking forward for my poly. damn.

merlynusn
10-21-2011, 08:31
Actually, from my experience with interview and interrogations typically accused persons that are "innocent" tend to go out the offensive, the guilty go on the defensive.

I'd agree with that.

If someone is sitting there calling me a liar. I will not sit and take it. There are some lines you don't cross. There are differences between some thug out on the street saying you're a liar or some defense attorney calling you a liar on the stand. The thug is a thug and hates you. The defense attorney is trying to get his client off by making you look bad because his client is guilty as sin. The guy doing the polygraph shouldn't be calling you a liar. That's not his "job." His job is to ask you questions and have you answer them and then interpret your answers. His job is not (or at least should not) be to piss you off so you blow your top. There is no reason for a LEO to call another LEO a liar.

Dexters
10-21-2011, 09:10
I'd agree with that.

The guy doing the polygraph shouldn't be calling you a liar. That's not his "job." His job is to ask you questions and have you answer them and then interpret your answers. His job is not (or at least should not) be to piss you off so you blow your top. There is no reason for a LEO to call another LEO a liar.

Is it possible it was staged as part of the process? If the person gets mad at being called a liar in a secure situation such as in the test; how might they react on the street?

MeefZah
10-21-2011, 09:31
I've noticed that departments that use their own "in house" polygraphers, those polygrapher tend to be nicer / more courteous to the applicants than the contracted polygraphers.

The contract guys tend to be *******s, making accusations, being offensive, etc.

scottydl
10-21-2011, 11:54
The guy doing the polygraph shouldn't be calling you a liar. That's not his "job." His job is to ask you questions and have you answer them and then interpret your answers. His job is not (or at least should not) be to piss you off so you blow your top. There is no reason for a LEO to call another LEO a liar.

He's not calling a person that in a "real" situation, it's all contrived! There is nothing personal to the attacks (if you want to call them that) in a polygraph interview... it's all business to gauge the interviewee's physiological response to the stress.

It seems pretty appropriate to me, depending on the technique, interview style, and training of the polygraph examiner. Just sitting there asking basic questions and interpreting the answers later is just one style of polygraph. Not everyone does it the same way.

Metro566
10-21-2011, 16:20
I'd agree with that.

If someone is sitting there calling me a liar. I will not sit and take it. There are some lines you don't cross. There are differences between some thug out on the street saying you're a liar or some defense attorney calling you a liar on the stand. The thug is a thug and hates you. The defense attorney is trying to get his client off by making you look bad because his client is guilty as sin. The guy doing the polygraph shouldn't be calling you a liar. That's not his "job." His job is to ask you questions and have you answer them and then interpret your answers. His job is not (or at least should not) be to piss you off so you blow your top. There is no reason for a LEO to call another LEO a liar.


In the multiple Poly's I've been thru, not a single one was conducted by a cop. It's always been a former FBI agent (no disrespect intended, I'm not saying you're not a LEO I'm just saying it's been a higher level than a beat cop) or someone who is a privatized operator of the machine, then they couple that with a psychologist.

I'd say, personally, if a psychologist can get you to blow your crap in an office, the likelihood you come unhinged on John Felon on the streets is pretty decent. If they call you a liar...who cares? Your track record, report, and the facts of the case will show you aren't...let them feebly try and get their client off.

JohnnyReb
10-21-2011, 17:40
In the multiple Poly's I've been thru, not a single one was conducted by a cop. It's always been a former FBI agent (no disrespect intended, I'm not saying you're not a LEO I'm just saying it's been a higher level than a beat cop) or someone who is a privatized operator of the machine, then they couple that with a psychologist.

I'd say, personally, if a psychologist can get you to blow your crap in an office, the likelihood you come unhinged on John Felon on the streets is pretty decent. If they call you a liar...who cares? Your track record, report, and the facts of the case will show you aren't...let them feebly try and get their client off.

In the 4 that I've taken, 3 were done by detectives, and one was by a retired Richmond city PD guy.

When you say couple it by a psychologist, what do you mean?

Here, its two very different steps of the process.

I've taken 3 psychs, all were pretty relaxed, minus the long drawn out tests you have to take.

JohnnyReb
10-21-2011, 17:47
Is it possible it was staged as part of the process? If the person gets mad at being called a liar in a secure situation such as in the test; how might they react on the street?

It could be "staged", in the sense he was digging for more info.

Show me one person that doesn't get mad at being called a liar:dunno:

It depends on how far the reactions go. Clearly, if someone just starting yelling cussing and flailing around, that could be indicative of future issues.

Everything is situational.

KiloBravo
10-21-2011, 19:16
Any word yet on if and when your second exam will be? I don't think they would call you back unless they were interested in having you join the department. I wish the very best for you. :wavey:

Dexters
10-21-2011, 19:24
Show me one person that doesn't get mad at being called a liar:dunno:



I think that is where you are wrong. It really depends upon the person who is calling me a liar.

Stranger - not mad - who cares!

Boss - not mad - very worried, he can't trust me, I'm worried about losing my job

Girlfriend - not mad - what is up?

RVER
10-21-2011, 20:04
You got played and fell for the bait. Learn from it. $15,000.00 cut in pay??? Hopefully the Feds will call you or just wait and re-apply for patrol.
Best wishes, stay safe.

JohnnyReb
10-21-2011, 20:49
I think that is where you are wrong. It really depends upon the person who is calling me a liar.

Stranger - not mad - who cares!

Boss - not mad - very worried, he can't trust me, I'm worried about losing my job

Girlfriend - not mad - what is up?

Given the situation, most people would care.

The fact that I'm in a public safety position already, being a liar is a fire able offense. There is a lot to lose being labeled a liar.

JohnnyReb
10-21-2011, 20:52
You got played and fell for the bait. Learn from it. $15,000.00 cut in pay??? Hopefully the Feds will call you or just wait and re-apply for patrol.
Best wishes, stay safe.

Yes. This job is a $15,000 paycut, a step down in retirement, and health insurance while it is paid for by the town while you are working, once you retire, there is no continuation of benefits. Meaning, once you retire, you have no health insurance unless you purchase a private policy.

If I go patrol with my agency, I'm still looking at the $15,000 paycut.

You be safe too!:wavey:

Metro566
10-21-2011, 21:06
The poly/psych here is rolled into one long ass day. You do a Polygraph which is not run by a cop (typically)...it's either a FBI guy they hire or a private company. Then, you go right into the psychological exam which is friggin brutal.

Anyway, if someone called me a liar, I really wouldn't care. It wouldn't even phase me...unless someone has hard facts to back up their ridiculous claim, I'm not going to sweat it. I've been called a lot worse than a liar...

I think you're under the incorrect assumption that most cops would get tweaked by being called a liar; I tend to believe that isn't so. Everyone has their breaking point and things that cause them to lose it...yours just happens to be being called a liar.

Take it as a lesson and like I said, remember next time that everything they're doing is purposeful and looking to get a rise/reaction out of you. If the guy calls you a liar, big eff'n deal. If he calls you a liar and presents hard facts as to why...then get huffy.

gotin
10-21-2011, 21:11
It is not only your integrity they are examining, it is your behavior under stress that is important.
They probably do not care much about that bag of candy you took from the store when you were 6, but blowing off easily in confrontations is something they probably don't want to see.
Just my two cents.

The Fist Of Goodness
10-21-2011, 22:53
This.

And look at some of the schmucks that have slipped through. Like the fag in Seattle whose live-in boyfriend used his service weapon to rape someone at gunpoint...

I suspect that a crystal ball might be more accurate.

http://desertpeace.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/hatecrimetn.jpg

:cool:

puckhead
10-22-2011, 04:39
Given the situation, most people would care.

The fact that I'm in a public safety position already, being a liar is a fire able offense. There is a lot to lose being labeled a liar.

I disagree that most would care. As a cop, you are accused of all sorts of things. I have never given a damn. You know the truth. No reason to get upset about anything. Just explain your case calmly whether is the poly dude, a boss or even a suspect. This job is all about maintaining composer when most wouldn't.

RetailNinja
10-22-2011, 09:07
I'm truly looking forward for my poly. damn.

I went in to my first Poly ever thinking the test was real. I was nervous, deemed 'inconclusive' and therefore failed.

I went in to my second Poly knowing the test doesn't work. I was relaxed, pictured myself laying out on a dock on a lake in the sunshine (an activity I did every summer as a kid on vacation), and passed.

Polygraph operators need to justify their own existence, much like wine tasters and art critics. The stuff is like religion, it only works if you believe it.


The fact that I'm in a public safety position already, being a liar is a fire able offense.

wat

Vigilant
10-22-2011, 09:26
Reb: If becoming vested with your current employer will guarantee you continuation of free insurance upon retirement, I would think about staying put until you have that in place.

JohnnyReb
10-22-2011, 11:39
Reb: If becoming vested with your current employer will guarantee you continuation of free insurance upon retirement, I would think about staying put until you have that in place.

Not free, but just as it is when you are working, they contribute to it.