Well, it happened... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Rabbi
10-18-2011, 16:47
...What happened? Another Officer blew up my stop that I had calmed down.

I am actually pretty good at de-escalation, as someone who is, besides all things, essentially a salesman, it comes very naturally to me.

Pulled over a guy who was not real happy about being pulled over, and even less happy about me shining my stinger into the back seat where his kids were...

Fine, angry guy....an angry guy with no valid DL. He gets pulled out of the car so we can talk. (Lippy wife in the car...) I am pretty sure my return will include a warrant (it should have but it didnt yet...)

Takes a little time to calm angry guy down. (mind you, he is being mouthy and loud but compliant from the start) Angry guy is now indoor voice lippy guy and getting better as his options start to sink in and now is moving more towards asking me things as oppossed to being angy tool lashing out and having a tantrum. Another officer shows up right at the tail end and decides this situation needs to be interesting again and just lays into angry guy....pretty much ensuring a rise out of angry guy.

It really sucked. I have watched officers who could not deescalate very well. I have seen officers on their own calls take it the wrong way....but this is the first time someone did it, on my stop, after a pretty fine bit of work turning it into peace.

Oh well.

collim1
10-18-2011, 17:01
There's one on every shift...

You are nicer than me, I dont listen to it and if they wont sign I tell them their court date and pursue a warrant when they FTA.

Denied
10-18-2011, 17:04
My first job was for a local sheriff, at the introduction he said there were two types of deputies, one could go into a bar fight and end up with the crowd wanting to buy him a drink, the other could be ask directions by a passing motorist and end up in a fight. He said if you want to last in law enforcement you needed to be the one who could calm disturbances not cause them.

Rabbi
10-18-2011, 17:21
There's one on every shift...

You are nicer than me, I dont listen to it and if they wont sign I tell them their court date and pursue a warrant when they FTA.

I would rather spend 20 minutes calming a guy down than any amount of time fighting him.

The other part of that, I (based on what he was saying) was pretty sure he was going to jail...for something. Again, I was just softening up my target.

I dont have anything to prove to a jackass who wants to be a jackass. If a situation requires something more stern or the the nuclear option, I can play that card in an instant as well. All things considered, I wanted this guy calm because a fight would have been going in the wrong direction. I was pretty sure I was going to have to put him in cuffs.

M1A Shooter
10-18-2011, 17:53
when i worked LE, it was a very small majority who would work through a situation. most seemed to be looking for a fight.

rookie1
10-18-2011, 19:58
I am not too bad at getting someone to calm down when they get all worked up (if I want to). A friend I went to the academy with is good at getting folks worked up over nothing. Kinda annoying when he rolls up and starts talking to the person, I know the person will get annoyed or mad or both. Sometimes I have to tell him to be quiet.

actionshooter10
10-18-2011, 20:08
You're nicer than I am.

There are officers that I won't let on my scenes for exactly that reason.

I am not too bad at getting someone to calm down when they get all worked up (if I want to). A friend I went to the academy with is good at getting folks worked up over nothing. Kinda annoying when he rolls up and starts talking to the person, I know the person will get annoyed or mad or both. Sometimes I have to tell him to be quiet.

ateamer
10-18-2011, 20:55
I rolled up once on a stop where a fellow deputy was speaking with a parolee who was illegally camping in his car behind a business. Earlier in the day, the parolee had told him that he had permission to camp there. Of course it turned out to not be true. Things looked copacetic until I got of the car, and then the deputy's tone changed. He started telling the parolee "you lied to me son! You never lie to me again, you got that, son?" (The parolee was 15 years older than the deputy.) Parolee says "why are you acting like a hardass?" Deputy says "Son, are back-sassing me? 'Cause if you give me any back-sass, I'll throw your ass right back on the third tier at Quentin!"

I got back in my car and left. Screw him. He wants to pull the TV sheriff routine, he can do it alone. If you want to act like a tough guy, do it alone and we'll see how tough you really are. And if you are just fine, under control and polite until your backup shows up, you are nothing but a ***** who doesn't deserve to have this job.

lawman800
11-01-2011, 15:57
I had a regular traffic stop and I was issuing the cite to a female driver. She was right down the street from her house and her husband and kids came out to see mommy get a ticket. I asked them to stay across the street until I was done. No problem.

Backup pulls up. Fto and his boot. The boot tries to take control of the situation which was already under control. Boot yells at the family to stay back, family takes a step forward, boot yells, "what are you, STUPID?!?!?!?!?!?" That almost started a fight because both thee mom and dad are outraged by a cop making that statement in front of their kids... Can't say I disagree.

Fast forward to later same day, complaint comes in, the fto and I verify the statement made by the boot under questioning by the wc. Wc asks if I would be okay to dismiss the ticket in exchange for the complaint drop. Wc said he is not pushing one way or another. I said whatever and went home.

Mayhem like Me
11-01-2011, 16:20
...What happened? Another Officer blew up my stop that I had calmed down.

I am actually pretty good at de-escalation, as someone who is, besides all things, essentially a salesman, it comes very naturally to me.

Pulled over a guy who was not real happy about being pulled over, and even less happy about me shining my stinger into the back seat where his kids were...

Fine, angry guy....an angry guy with no valid DL. He gets pulled out of the car so we can talk. (Lippy wife in the car...) I am pretty sure my return will include a warrant (it should have but it didnt yet...)

Takes a little time to calm angry guy down. (mind you, he is being mouthy and loud but compliant from the start) Angry guy is now indoor voice lippy guy and getting better as his options start to sink in and now is moving more towards asking me things as oppossed to being angy tool lashing out and having a tantrum. Another officer shows up right at the tail end and decides this situation needs to be interesting again and just lays into angry guy....pretty much ensuring a rise out of angry guy.

It really sucked. I have watched officers who could not deescalate very well. I have seen officers on their own calls take it the wrong way....but this is the first time someone did it, on my stop, after a pretty fine bit of work turning it into peace.

Oh well.

My apologies I hate those guys...sometimes I am that guy when I show up and they see me and may not like me I try and stay out of the way unless immediately needed.

Mayhem like Me
11-01-2011, 16:22
I had a regular traffic stop and I was issuing the cite to a female driver. She was right down the street from her house and her husband and kids came out to see mommy get a ticket. I asked them to stay across the street until I was done. No problem.

Backup pulls up. Fto and his boot. The boot tries to take control of the situation which was already under control. Boot yells at the family to stay back, family takes a step forward, boot yells, "what are you, STUPID?!?!?!?!?!?" That almost started a fight because both thee mom and dad are outraged by a cop making that statement in front of their kids... Can't say I disagree.

Fast forward to later same day, complaint comes in, the fto and I verify the statement made by the boot under questioning by the wc. Wc asks if I would be okay to dismiss the ticket in exchange for the complaint drop. Wc said he is not pushing one way or another. I said whatever and went home.
I would tell FTO in front of boot if he did not make him STFU I would..

lawman800
11-01-2011, 16:37
I would tell FTO in front of boot if he did not make him STFU I would..

Did I mention the boot was a young female with a chip on her shoulder?

Dragoon44
11-01-2011, 16:48
There are always guys like that around. They could incite Gandhi into a homicidal rage.

lawman800
11-01-2011, 18:00
Can they make MLK, Jr. want to kick some serious butt?

Pepper45
11-01-2011, 19:54
Fast forward to later same day, complaint comes in, the fto and I verify the statement made by the boot under questioning by the wc. Wc asks if I would be okay to dismiss the ticket in exchange for the complaint drop. Wc said he is not pushing one way or another. I said whatever and went home.

"Sorry boss, whatever she does, is whatever she does. My ticket stands unless ordered otherwise. Maybe this is the lesson she needs to not jam us up with a lawsuit later."

I don't try to be a jerk, but if I am (we all are once in a while), I own it. She needs to learn to own her mistakes, not have others bend over backwards to enable her to act like that.

Newcop761
11-01-2011, 21:46
There was a particular (female) FTO who would push the male half's buttons on family disturbance calls after it was determined no crime had occurred and things were calming down. Talk about looking for a fight and anti-man lesbian anger issues...

nikerret
11-01-2011, 22:10
I ssee the biggest difference in how much talking gets done before "hands on" when comparing those who have two to a call and those who are closser to "one riot, one ranger".

I've talked for over an hour to avoid having to go hands on. If someone insists on a fight, I'll bring hell down on them. If we can avoid it; I will.

I work with the same guys, for the most part and am known as one of the better "talkers". I ususally end up taking over the incident, anyway. We don't work against each other on purpose and rarely on accident.

lawman800
11-02-2011, 00:12
"Sorry boss, whatever she does, is whatever she does. My ticket stands unless ordered otherwise. Maybe this is the lesson she needs to not jam us up with a lawsuit later."

I don't try to be a jerk, but if I am (we all are once in a while), I own it. She needs to learn to own her mistakes, not have others bend over backwards to enable her to act like that.

Trust me, if I didn't respect the wc and knew he couldn't ask me straight out because he had enough respect for me, but he needed my help because the department was under the microscope and taking fire on multiple fronts and didn't need this, things may have turned out differently.

rookie1
11-02-2011, 06:58
Backup pulls up. Fto and his boot. The boot tries to take control of the situation which was already under control. Boot yells at the family to stay back, family takes a step forward, boot yells, "what are you, STUPID?!?!?!?!?!?" That almost started a fight because both thee mom and dad are outraged by a cop making that statement in front of their kids... Can't say I disagree.



I'm not afraid to ask someone that question. However, I would not ask it while in FTO and not under these circumstances. Not in front of the kids and not as they take a step further. Maybe after they are told a couple times, that would come out but in FTO never would I say that. I always make it about safety and am decent with taking the time to explain whats happening and that theres always court if the mom disagrees. If this guy is 22 and drunk watching his friend get arrested for intox and wanting to interject, this question would come out.

AngryBassets
11-02-2011, 07:49
when i worked LE, it was a very small majority who would work through a situation. most seemed to be looking for a fight.

Your experience differs from mine (17 years on the street as a cop, sgt and WC).

You're nicer than I am.

There are officers that I won't let on my scenes for exactly that reason.

I rolled up once on a stop where a fellow deputy was speaking with a parolee who was illegally camping in his car behind a business. Earlier in the day, the parolee had told him that he had permission to camp there. Of course it turned out to not be true. Things looked copacetic until I got of the car, and then the deputy's tone changed. He started telling the parolee "you lied to me son! You never lie to me again, you got that, son?" (The parolee was 15 years older than the deputy.) Parolee says "why are you acting like a hardass?" Deputy says "Son, are back-sassing me? 'Cause if you give me any back-sass, I'll throw your ass right back on the third tier at Quentin!"

I got back in my car and left. Screw him. He wants to pull the TV sheriff routine, he can do it alone. If you want to act like a tough guy, do it alone and we'll see how tough you really are. And if you are just fine, under control and polite until your backup shows up, you are nothing but a ***** who doesn't deserve to have this job.

This. They show up, open their mouth, I'd rip out my notes, hand it to him and leave.

I had a regular traffic stop and I was issuing the cite to a female driver. She was right down the street from her house and her husband and kids came out to see mommy get a ticket. I asked them to stay across the street until I was done. No problem.

Backup pulls up. Fto and his boot. The boot tries to take control of the situation which was already under control. Boot yells at the family to stay back, family takes a step forward, boot yells, "what are you, STUPID?!?!?!?!?!?" That almost started a fight because both thee mom and dad are outraged by a cop making that statement in front of their kids... Can't say I disagree.

Fast forward to later same day, complaint comes in, the fto and I verify the statement made by the boot under questioning by the wc. Wc asks if I would be okay to dismiss the ticket in exchange for the complaint drop. Wc said he is not pushing one way or another. I said whatever and went home.

Did I mention the boot was a young female with a chip on her shoulder?

Trust me, if I didn't respect the wc and knew he couldn't ask me straight out because he had enough respect for me, but he needed my help because the department was under the microscope and taking fire on multiple fronts and didn't need this, things may have turned out differently.

I think this was handled appropriately by you and the WC. I just hope the FTO handled it, too.

lawman800
11-02-2011, 08:21
Thank you, sir. At that time, under those circs, it's what we thought was necessary.