Yet again, an Ubuntu upgrade has left me unable to boot [Archive] - Glock Talk

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wct097
10-20-2011, 17:47
This is probably the third time in 2-3 years that I've had an Ubuntu upgrade go bad and leave me unable to boot. Rather annoying. This time it's unable to mount my root filesystem. Last time they changed the boot loader and the old one failed to work anymore.

The most annoying part is the fact that these are servers that I generally only access remotely. That's a royal PITA when it won't boot and you can no longer SSH into it.

wct097
10-20-2011, 18:42
Attempted a number of things to get grub to boot. Looks like it was originally set up with a separate boot partition. Not sure if that matters or not. Tried the grub commands:


set root=(servername-root)
linux (hd0,1)/vmlinuz-xxx-server root=(servername-root)/ ro
initrd (hd0,1)/initrd.img-xxx-server
boot


plus various combinations with various files that are on the drive....

Doesn't boot, fails to mount /root and everything else.

Apparently I'm not the only one:
http://aaron-kelley.net/blog/2011/04/grub-prompt-after-upgrade-to-ubuntu-11-04/

I'm about ready to give up on Linux. I can't deal with downtime every other time I upgrade. I continue to have more issues with Linux than any other OS that I regularly work with.

IndyGunFreak
10-20-2011, 19:53
Attempted a number of things to get grub to boot. Looks like it was originally set up with a separate boot partition. Not sure if that matters or not. Tried the grub commands:


set root=(servername-root)
linux (hd0,1)/vmlinuz-xxx-server root=(servername-root)/ ro
initrd (hd0,1)/initrd.img-xxx-server
boot


plus various combinations with various files that are on the drive....

Doesn't boot, fails to mount /root and everything else.

Apparently I'm not the only one:
http://aaron-kelley.net/blog/2011/04/grub-prompt-after-upgrade-to-ubuntu-11-04/

I'm about ready to give up on Linux. I can't deal with downtime every other time I upgrade. I continue to have more issues with Linux than any other OS that I regularly work with.

There were a few upgrade snafu's... I did clean installs, no problem. As for the servers, why don't you just keep them on LTS cycles? be a lot less painful for you. Unless you have some absolute need to use the non-lts versions (usually the servers installs are fine w/ LTS)...

wct097
10-20-2011, 19:59
There were a few upgrade snafu's... I did clean installs, no problem. As for the servers, why don't you just keep them on LTS cycles? be a lot less painful for you. Unless you have some absolute need to use the non-lts versions (usually the servers installs are fine w/ LTS)...

My last issue was with a LTS version. I figured that if I kept more current rather than a year between upgrades, that I'd have fewer issues. I can't justify rebuilding a server just to do a clean install every time. That seems ridiculous.

IndyGunFreak
10-20-2011, 20:25
My last issue was with a LTS version. I figured that if I kept more current rather than a year between upgrades, that I'd have fewer issues. I can't justify rebuilding a server just to do a clean install every time. That seems ridiculous.

I wasn't suggesting you do clean installs.. Given what you've said, it doesn't really sound practical.

IGF

wct097
10-20-2011, 20:45
I wasn't suggesting you do clean installs.. Given what you've said, it doesn't really sound practical.

IGF

Yeah... very frustrating. Hopefully a repair from a boot disk will fix it. If not, I'm probably going to ditch Ubuntu.

Pierre!
10-20-2011, 23:25
I have been noticing that most of my distros just loose their update servers... So we are supposed to keep hunting down the servers that are feeding our version the updates?

Never could figure out why they move the servers all the time...

Yah, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, openSUSE, and good ole Mandriva... No more updates due to server weirdness.

Ooops - I Lied - Ubuntu just finished an update... My Bad.

Still - Kinda odd if you ask me.

Do Linux updates 'go bad'??? and then they have to burn the server to get rid of the smell??? :rofl:

Well, at least Ubuntu is back to being updated!

L8ters...
Patrick

IndyGunFreak
10-21-2011, 05:31
I have been noticing that most of my distros just loose their update servers... So we are supposed to keep hunting down the servers that are feeding our version the updates?

Never could figure out why they move the servers all the time...

Yah, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, openSUSE, and good ole Mandriva... No more updates due to server weirdness.

Ooops - I Lied - Ubuntu just finished an update... My Bad.

Still - Kinda odd if you ask me.

Do Linux updates 'go bad'??? and then they have to burn the server to get rid of the smell??? :rofl:

Well, at least Ubuntu is back to being updated!

L8ters...
Patrick

Honestly, I think it goes back to this "Upgrade Immediately" mentality. The Ubuntu servers just get slammed for several weeks after a new release. *IF* I were going to upgrade as opposed to clean install, I would probably wait at least a month before upgrading.. but that's just me.

Pierre!
10-21-2011, 06:29
Honestly, I think it goes back to this "Upgrade Immediately" mentality. The Ubuntu servers just get slammed for several weeks after a new release. *IF* I were going to upgrade as opposed to clean install, I would probably wait at least a month before upgrading.. but that's just me.

I think you are onto something Indy - I just tried again, and both my 'Buntu's updated.

Now I usually don't do squat with the 'Nix boxes unless they nag me to patch/update them... that 's why I am usually surprised when they won't patch/update for me... after all, THEY asked to be patched / updated... wasn't my idea. :rofl:

wct097
10-21-2011, 07:00
I generally update when it prompts me that updates are available. If they have issues with their servers being slammed, then they probably should build in some sort of exponential backoff routine in their updaters.

Either way, I'm probably going to work to get the data off of this server and look into transitioning back to Windows. I've been exceptionally disappointed with the disastrous Linux upgrades I've experienced.

Linux3
10-21-2011, 07:05
Honestly, I think it goes back to this "Upgrade Immediately" mentality. The Ubuntu servers just get slammed for several weeks after a new release. *IF* I were going to upgrade as opposed to clean install, I would probably wait at least a month before upgrading.. but that's just me.
I don't understand why anyone who has a running system would jump on a new release. Wait a while and let other people find the bugs and give the maintainers time to fix them.
As to servers, IGF's advice to use a LTS is well said. I manage a lot of servers and I would NEVER jump at a new release unless something was just absolutely broken.
I think this is more of a problem with wct097's server management methods than Ubuntu's upgrade procedures.
If it ain't broke don't fix it. But then my mail server runs Red Hat 6.1 and it's just fine. (And daily backed up)

wct097
10-21-2011, 09:22
I don't understand why anyone who has a running system would jump on a new release.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to stay current.[/sarcasm] Not to mention the fact that it constantly pings you to upgrade every time you log on.

Wait a while and let other people find the bugs and give the maintainers time to fix them.

This issue was first reported as of 11.04. It's obvious that with the issue still existing as of 11.10, that it's not being addressed. Not to mention, I'm less concerned with minors bugs. I certainly would expect the system to actually boot.


As to servers, IGF's advice to use a LTS is well said.

The issue was reported when upgrading from the LTS version. I've had similar issues with previous LTS versions, when I only used LTS. I don't think it's too much to expect a release upgrade LTS or not, to actually boot after the upgrade. In my experience, going two years between releases caused me to be hit with a fundamental change which rendered the system inoperable.

I manage a lot of servers and I would NEVER jump at a new release unless something was just absolutely broken.

I personally have had to deal with servers managed under that philosophy. It's not an enjoyable experience rebuilding a box that the admin refused to keep current. I've been dealing with that exact issue with a machine that hadn't been upgraded in almost a decade. The headache isn't worth it. I'd rather keep relatively current.


I think this is more of a problem with wct097's server management methods than Ubuntu's upgrade procedures.

My management method, as in, upgrading when Ubuntu says I should upgrade? I installed Ubuntu fresh with 10.10 letting Ubuntu do it's thing, and upgraded a year later. It failed to boot after the upgrade. I'm not sure how my management of the server is to blame, unless you consider proper management to simply be 'set it and forget it'.


If it ain't broke don't fix it. But then my mail server runs Red Hat 6.1 and it's just fine. (And daily backed up)

Like I said before. I'd rather stay up to date than wait for an ancient setup to die and have to scramble to fix something that's drastically out of date.

GIockGuy24
10-21-2011, 09:51
My last issue was with a LTS version. I figured that if I kept more current rather than a year between upgrades, that I'd have fewer issues. I can't justify rebuilding a server just to do a clean install every time. That seems ridiculous.

The current version of 10.04 LTS has a lot updates and fixes and the latest kernel is a big improvement. I think the current download has now been updated to 10.04.3 and is available as an install CD so you don't have the problems of trying to install the original 10.04 version on newer hardware that it doesn't support.

wct097
10-21-2011, 11:13
The current version of 10.04 LTS has a lot updates and fixes and the latest kernel is a big improvement. I think the current download has now been updated to 10.04.3 and is available as an install CD so you don't have the problems of trying to install the original 10.04 version on newer hardware that it doesn't support.

IIRC, my last Ubuntu upgrade disaster was 8.04LTS to 10.04LTS.

I'm still not having any luck recovering this machine. From GRUB I can see my drive partitions. I can figure out where my boot partition and root partition are. I just can't get it to boot. I can't even boot it from an 11.10 disk or USB stick. The only thing I can figure is that there is some sort of incompatibility, or 11.10 is just bad from every angle.

GIockGuy24
10-21-2011, 11:31
A lot of what was wrong with 10.04 has been fixed in the updated versions. It can be installed directly without going back to the original release version of 10.04.

wct097
10-21-2011, 12:12
In the process of downloading 10.04 now.

captainstormy
10-21-2011, 12:29
IGF already pointed it out, but usually when someone has a problem doing a distro upgrade with Ubuntu it is right after the new release. I switched away from Ubuntu a few releases ago myself, but when I did use them, I liked to wait about 2 weeks at least before doing an upgrade and I never had a problem with it.

wct097
10-21-2011, 14:19
Managed to get 11.10 running. Never could recover the existing install. I'm starting to think that the install itself was screwed up, not just the bootloader. Managed to keep my data in place, but will need to re-do everything else. Will probably just transition my data & file shares to a windows box along with a couple minor services and just use this for SSH tunneling since I can't depend on Ubuntu to release stable upgrades.

IndyGunFreak
10-21-2011, 15:31
Managed to get 11.10 running. Never could recover the existing install. I'm starting to think that the install itself was screwed up, not just the bootloader. Managed to keep my data in place, but will need to re-do everything else. Will probably just transition my data & file shares to a windows box along with a couple minor services and just use this for SSH tunneling since I can't depend on Ubuntu to release stable upgrades.

I understand your frustration, but i dont think this was a "ubuntu didn't release a stable upgrade" problem.

IGF

wct097
10-21-2011, 18:31
I understand your frustration, but i dont think this was a "ubuntu didn't release a stable upgrade" problem.

IGF

I'm open to accepting my own screwups, but I fail to see how I caused this.

IndyGunFreak
10-21-2011, 19:37
I'm open to accepting my own screwups, but I fail to see how I caused this.

I'm not saying *you* caused it... but... honestly upgrading like that so soon after a release, it's just a recipe for a problem.

Again, not really your fault, but that's one thing I definitely would not have done.

GenX
10-21-2011, 19:38
I did the upgrade on a newer laptop from 10.10 to 11.04 then 11.10 in one session. Then I did an upgrade on a dell dimension 8400 from 11.04 to 11.10 the same day. Both machines were usable, but didn't really run smoothly. Needless to say, they both got clean installs the next day. Aside from oneiric's slow boot/shutdown, it runs smooth. Seems ubuntu is going backwards, but thats just my amateur opinion.

IndyGunFreak
10-21-2011, 20:02
I did the upgrade on a newer laptop from 10.10 to 11.04 then 11.10 in one session. Then I did an upgrade on a dell dimension 8400 from 11.04 to 11.10 the same day. Both machines were usable, but didn't really run smoothly. Needless to say, they both got clean installs the next day. Aside from oneiric's slow boot/shutdown, it runs smooth. Seems ubuntu is going backwards, but thats just my amateur opinion.

The biggest issue w/ it, is Unity. It is just *SO* bloated.

If you switch to one of the other GUI's they are still very fast.

GenX
10-21-2011, 20:23
I've given unity some time, not really too enthused about it. Besides installing gnome shell, what other options are there, Xubuntu 11.10? I prefer a quick boot and shutdown, which just isn't there with the latest release.
The biggest issue w/ it, is Unity. It is just *SO* bloated.

If you switch to one of the other GUI's they are still very fast.

Linux3
10-21-2011, 20:34
I've given unity some time, not really too enthused about it. Besides installing gnome shell, what other options are there, Xubuntu 11.10? I prefer a quick boot and shutdown, which just isn't there with the latest release.
I have switched to XFCE on all my systems that have X installed.
Smooth and fairly light.
Reminds me of KDE 2.X.
http://www.ghacks.net/2010/07/07/installing-and-using-xfce-4/

GAFinch
10-22-2011, 05:57
I've given unity some time, not really too enthused about it. Besides installing gnome shell, what other options are there, Xubuntu 11.10? I prefer a quick boot and shutdown, which just isn't there with the latest release.

The problem I've seen is that a lot of packages have been recoded to work with Unity and can be glitchy when run in GNOME. I've been very displeased with Unity (bloated like Fedora became) but, unfortunately for me, I had upgraded my PC from 10.04 to 10.10 and it now has an expiration date of six months. I spent some time making it my primary OS, but I'm going back to OS X until/unless I decide to make a new effort to find an alternative Linux distro I like.

IndyGunFreak
10-22-2011, 08:57
The problem I've seen is that a lot of packages have been recoded to work with Unity and can be glitchy when run in GNOME. I've been very displeased with Unity (bloated like Fedora became) but, unfortunately for me, I had upgraded my PC from 10.04 to 10.10 and it now has an expiration date of six months. I spent some time making it my primary OS, but I'm going back to OS X until/unless I decide to make a new effort to find an alternative Linux distro I like.

If you liked Gnome 2.x (I did as well).. You should really give XFCE a look. If you want super sexy, go for LXDE --

Assuming you want to stick w/ Ubuntu...
http://www.xubuntu.org
http://www.lubuntu.net

Gratuitous screenshot

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/IndyGunFreak/desktop.jpg

captainstormy
10-22-2011, 11:37
until/unless I decide to make a new effort to find an alternative Linux distro I like.

I'm a big fan of OpenSuse. Give it a try with either XFCE or LXDE as the DM.

harrygunner
10-26-2011, 19:39
I don't trust Ubunti updates for a server. I dual install it on my family's laptops.

For my servers, we run Centos 5. (Centos 6 is too new.) We turn off any chron jobs that automate upgrades and tie down the OS with SELinux and a few other tricks.

We perform security upgrades on offline servers first. After testing, we migrate the upgrades to the production servers.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Linux3
10-26-2011, 20:48
I don't trust Ubunti updates for a server. I dual install it on my family's laptops.

For my servers, we run Centos 5. (Centos 6 is too new.) We turn off any chron jobs that automate upgrades and tie down the OS with SELinux and a few other tricks.

We perform security upgrades on offline servers first. After testing, we migrate the upgrades to the production servers.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Well said, well said.
I like CentOS for servers and totally agree you never upgrade a running server till you have tested it.

wct097
10-27-2011, 04:37
Well said, well said.
I like CentOS for servers and totally agree you never upgrade a running server till you have tested it.

Personal vs corporate.... We never upgrade anything without extensive testing in the corp world. For my personal/small biz stuff, I just don't have the resources.