Is Present Day USA the most corrupt Nation in History? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Vic777
10-22-2011, 12:23
On a dollar value per Citizen, from local Town Councillors and Mayors to Congressmen and the President, Is Present day America the most corrupt Society in Human History? Are there more dollars stolen by corrupt Politicians per citizen in America than anywhere else on the Planet?

Sam Spade
10-22-2011, 12:27
Not even close. Neither on a historical basis, nor considering how business is done elsewhere in the world right now.

happyguy
10-22-2011, 12:40
You wouldn't be asking this question if you had ever spent much time in third world countries.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

MinervaDoe
10-22-2011, 12:46
Pick any country outisde of the U.S. and do an Internet search for "bribe country name"
You'll find stuff like this
Business without 'bribe' in China…not possible
http://www.mynews.in/News/Business_without_%27bribe%27_in_China%E2%80%A6not_possible!_N26347.html

It's fun to play the devils advocate with the U.S. and its policies, but just the fact that you have the right to do so, puts you light years ahead of many countries.

JBnTX
10-22-2011, 13:08
On a dollar value per Citizen, from local Town Councillors and Mayors to Congressmen and the President, Is Present day America the most corrupt Society in Human History? Are there more dollars stolen by corrupt Politicians per citizen in America than anywhere else on the Planet?


Have you been hanging out with the Blame America First crowd again?:faint:

I think about half of the posters on this forum are charter members.

..

G33
10-22-2011, 13:52
Yes to our liberal members.
:supergrin::supergrin:

Vic777
10-22-2011, 14:06
Pick any country outside of the U.S. and do an Internet search for "bribe country name"
You'll find stuff like this
Business without 'bribe' in China…not possible
http://www.mynews.in/News/Business_without_%27bribe%27_in_China%E2%80%A6not_possible!_N26347.html

It's fun to play the devils advocate with the U.S. and its policies, but just the fact that you have the right to do so, puts you light years ahead of many countries.And you don't need to "know" an official in the USA to get a contract? I'm talking amount of corruption per citizen. Sure they steal in the Third World, but there's not that much to steal. In the USA the dollar amount of the fraud and corruption is way more than China. Take for example the "stimulus", how much of that went to fraudulent Democratic schemes?

MinervaDoe
10-22-2011, 14:50
You should redirect your energy to getting Dianne Feinstein put in jail for all the illegal activiy she took part in when she was on the House Appropriations Committee and insured that her husband's company got plenty of lucrative contracts.

Brucev
10-22-2011, 15:18
Re: corruption in the U.S. Someone needs to do their homework. The U.S. norm is overseas virtually an impossible dream.

juggy4711
10-22-2011, 15:35
Not by a long shot.

DWARREN123
10-22-2011, 15:38
No but it is working harder towards #1. :steamed:

barbedwiresmile
10-22-2011, 15:43
If I understand how the OP has phrased the question, the answer is: per dollar gross, yes. Per dollar net, not even close. However, that is a general answer. In terms of how government funds are allocated, probably yes both gross and net on a macro level. There is very minimal corruption on the micro level, however, in relation to second- and third-world countries.

Chronos
10-22-2011, 16:29
If I understand how the OP has phrased the question, the answer is: per dollar gross, yes. Per dollar net, not even close. However, that is a general answer. In terms of how government funds are allocated, probably yes both gross and net on a macro level. There is very minimal corruption on the micro level, however, in relation to second- and third-world countries.

I was about to point this out, but BWS is ahead of the game.

Corrupt power in the US controls more total dollars than anywhere (China is probably close to overtaking this spot), and on a per-citizen basis it's debatable, and depends on how you slice it, though the US must be near the top. Here are a few examples of contenders on the per-citizen basis:

Qatar is #1 in per capita income (US is #7), and according to the Heritage foundation their gov't is slightly more corrupt than the US. However, they have zero income tax on individuals and wholly Qatari-owned businesses, and government spending as a fraction of GDP is substantially less compared to the US.

Norway is #4 in per capita income, and the Heritage foundations rates their government as substantially less corrupt than the US. However, they tax the living crap out of both individuals and businesses, and the government spends about the same fraction of GDP compared with the US.

So, viewed as an overall tax-farm, the US government looks by far the most successful money-extraction system for the farmers, and on a money-extraction per citizen basis, they are also amongst the top. On a "brutality per citizen" basis, they are nowhere near the top -- "free range" livestock are much more productive, when it comes to farming humans.

Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking

Feanor
10-22-2011, 16:35
Not even close. Neither on a historical basis, nor considering how business is done elsewhere in the world right now.

Oh? What other historical nation exists/existed that exceeds the fifty to seventy billion dollars in narcotics that flows virtually unchecked across that Mexican border every single year? The Chinese, Russians, North Koreans, and all of Africa combined, are pikers when it comes to genuine political corruption, seventy billion dollars yearly in liquid cash, one border, one scam! :whistling:

Free Radical
10-22-2011, 16:51
Tell ya what. Pack up your things and get ready to move. I'll buy you a one way ticket to any other country in the world.

juggy4711
10-22-2011, 17:08
If I understand how the OP has phrased the question, the answer is: per dollar gross, yes. Per dollar net, not even close. However, that is a general answer. In terms of how government funds are allocated, probably yes both gross and net on a macro level. There is very minimal corruption on the micro level, however, in relation to second- and third-world countries.

I completely missed that part of the question. Between you and Chronos I am humbled by y'all's level of political savy.

Chronos
10-22-2011, 17:14
Tell ya what. Pack up your things and get ready to move. I'll buy you a one way ticket to any other country in the world.

Already been there and done that (thanks for the offer, though), including countries higher on the Heritage foundation's economic freedom index than the US. It was far less the paranoid police state -- it was easy to go a week without ever seeing police officers in one of the largest cities in the country, and the amount of implicit trust when you travel there reminded me of the US, circa 1990. I came back to "anytown USA" where the most expensive new building project in town is the new police station.

The one thing the US has, which is invaluable, is a relatively large fraction of people (maybe 5% and growing) who are philosophically enlightened on the whole "goverment = force" thing, and not afraid to talk about it.

I recommend you take advantage of your own ticket, before throwing it to the crowd.

Free Radical
10-22-2011, 17:22
Already been there and done that (thanks for the offer, though), including countries higher on the Heritage foundation's economic freedom index than the US. It was far less the paranoid police state -- it was easy to go a week without ever seeing police officers in one of the largest cities in the country, and the amount of implicit trust when you travel there reminded me of the US, circa 1990. I came back to "anytown USA" where the most expensive new building project in town is the new police station.

The one thing the US has, which is invaluable, is a relatively large fraction of people (maybe 5% and growing) who are philosophically enlightened on the whole "goverment = force" thing, and not afraid to talk about it.

I recommend you take advantage of your own ticket, before throwing it to the crowd.


I've been to 5 continents, thanks. There's a whole lot more to it than the Heritage Foundation's assessment. My American perspective is decidedly rural. I don't and I wouldn't live in any major city. Here or elsewhere.

Chronos
10-22-2011, 17:26
I've been to 5 continents, thanks. There's a whole lot more to it than the Heritage Foundation's assessment. My American perspective is decidedly rural. I don't and I wouldn't live in any major city. Here or elsewhere.

I'm guessing you lived on a military base? A United States military base?

RDW
10-22-2011, 18:07
That's just a Stupid Question - NO!

stevelyn
10-22-2011, 18:26
Nope. Maybe we're in the most corrupt period of our own history, but we're pretty upstanding when you start comparing us to other countries.

For the most corrupt, I'd start with nations where Spain futzed around in first.

Vic777
10-22-2011, 22:26
But the dollar amount of the Government corruption and fraud per capita far exceeds that of any other country in History. By that yardstick the USA is the most corrupt Nation on the Planet.

certifiedfunds
10-22-2011, 23:01
Small time bribes to conduct everyday business may not be commonplace, but the American people and their descendants for generations to come were just recently fleeced of several trillion dollars.

I'm not sure what you call that but, I'd say we rank right at the tippy top.

JimBianchi
10-23-2011, 00:02
I've had to bribe cops in Mexico at a "safety check" to avoid getting arrested. (I was guilty of DWA, Driving While American)

I had to bride an official of the Greek Government to stamp my marriage licence to exit the country with my wife, no stamp, wife is FORBIDDEN from leaving country. Cost about $125. Once I figured it out, they were very nice crooks to deal with. (Marring a Greek while in Greece was tough, I should have taken the Embassy's advice and just came home with her on a tourist visa and it would have been no hassle!)

I had to pay an "exit fee" ($375 total) so my cats (yes, pet cats) could leave Italy with me. This happened at the airport, after customs and check-in. If I didn't pay, my cats would taken and I would still have to leave, or forfeit my ticket. From what I was told, some don't pay and the pets are taken and killed.

In Milan, I had to pay a "voluntary" fee ($10 per bag, after check-in) so my bags would not be stolen in the airport or on the way to JFK. I pay a fee and the bag was tagged/wrapped and never touched. Anyone who didn't pay, the bag was rifled and stuff would be missing. I heard that horror story from more than a few Americans while I was there.

These are just example off the top of my head.

Oh, I forgot about our "friends" the Saudi's spying on us in our hotel rooms in country, 1987. When we found the cameras and mics we were outraged and reported to the Commander, who took it to the senior Saudi. We were told to put them back, leave them alone or face jail time for damaging Saudi Property. (We did finally have one room that was clean, as far as we knew, but only one out of 400! The Embassy thought we knew about the recording devices, we did not!)

My Father-in law (Retired Greek Naval Officer and the Greek Olympic Rowing Coach for 20yrs) Traveled the world in the 70's, 80s and 90s and said he always loved visiting the US because the American government never extorted money from him or arrested him for asking a cop for directions. (That happened in Moscow, 1984, he spent two days in jail and was finally able to figure out who to pay to get out of jail)

JimBianchi
10-23-2011, 00:04
The last time I researched it, 80% of the Greek economy was "under ground", not including illicit drugs.

The US is about 20% "under ground" (illegal goods, not paying taxes and such)

Jeff82
10-23-2011, 00:26
What is it you want to hear?! "America is terrible!!" There. Does that satiate you?

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Chronos
10-23-2011, 02:08
What is it you want to hear?! "America is terrible!!" There. Does that satiate you?

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

If you would change it to "government is terrible," you'd probably get more agreement.

JBnTX
10-23-2011, 03:02
If you would change it to "government is terrible," you'd probably get more agreement.


You can't separate the two at your convenience. The people elected the
government and are represented by that government. Like it or not.

The America bashers try to separate the two in order to provide cover for
their true feelings of hatred for this country and it's people.

Saying you love the country but hate the government is the same as those
anti-war people who say they support the troops but don't support the war.

In reality they loathe the troops and the war.

Same thing with the government and the people.
You can't have it both ways.

Stubudd
10-23-2011, 03:31
You can't separate the two at your convenience. The people elected the
government and are represented by that government. Like it or not.

The America bashers try to separate the two in order to provide cover for
their true feelings of hatred for this country and it's people.

Saying you love the country but hate the government is the same as those
anti-war people who say they support the troops but don't support the war.

In reality they loathe the troops and the war.

Same thing with the government and the people.
You can't have it both ways.

sometimes i can't even tell if you're serious

JBnTX
10-23-2011, 03:42
sometimes i can't even tell if you're serious

Hit close to home, did I?

barbedwiresmile
10-23-2011, 04:08
You can't separate the two at your convenience. The people elected the
government and are represented by that government. Like it or not.

When your government spent hundreds of billions of dollars to purchase CDS counterparty risk and uphold banker bonuses, who was being "represented"? Who is represented by ZIRP? By QE? I mean, you and your descendants will be paying for this - it was purchased with a mortgage on your and their future labor - so I'm curious about the representative element.

Chronos
10-23-2011, 05:35
sometimes i can't even tell if you're serious

I would like to know the odds on him being a paid shill vs. the most outrageous case of Stockholm syndrome we're likely to encounter in our lives.

JBnTX
10-23-2011, 07:20
I would like to know the odds on him being a paid shill vs. the most outrageous case of Stockholm syndrome we're likely to encounter in our lives.


Look at the title of this thread and read the thread starters original post.

No where does he mention the government.
He talks about our society being corrupt and politicians at all levels stealing money.

Then someone tries to provide cover by separating out the government and
saying it's corrupt.

All politicians do not steal money and our society is not corrupt.

If you don't like our present government vote the bums out,
but don't condemn the entire country because of a few bad apples.

Vic777
10-23-2011, 07:36
If you don't like our present government vote the bums out,
but don't condemn the entire country because of a few bad apples.America is at the tipping point, 50% of job holders (voters) are employed in Government non producing jobs, financed by the other Fifty Percent. It is impossible to elect a Government which will stand up for traditional values. We send these lieberals to school until they're almost Thirty Years Old, they have no useful skills, they end up as Lawyers, Teachers or Graffiti Artists. Bogus Government jobs must be created to continue to support these leaches for their entire lives.

JBnTX
10-23-2011, 07:45
I would like to know the odds on him being a paid shill...

Posters come on this forum and post some of the most anti-American stuff like,
Is America Doomed, Is America Evil, Is America Over and we should collapse the entire country and start over.

Everyone of those posts has an underlying message of contempt for this great nation and it's people.

Many posters have stated the American people are stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I stand up and defend this country, and you accuse me of being a shill?:steamed:

..

Vic777
10-23-2011, 08:18
I stand up and defend this country, and you accuse me of being a shill?:steamed:

..I accuse you of working for Big Government, or living off some Bogus Government Contract/job.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2011, 08:50
You can't separate the two at your convenience. The people elected the
government and are represented by that government. Like it or not.

The America bashers try to separate the two in order to provide cover for
their true feelings of hatred for this country and it's people.

Saying you love the country but hate the government is the same as those
anti-war people who say they support the troops but don't support the war.

In reality they loathe the troops and the war.

Same thing with the government and the people.
You can't have it both ways.

You couldn't be more wrong.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2011, 08:57
Look at the title of this thread and read the thread starters original post.

No where does he mention the government.
He talks about our society being corrupt and politicians at all levels stealing money.

Then someone tries to provide cover by separating out the government and
saying it's corrupt.

All politicians do not steal money and our society is not corrupt.

If you don't like our present government vote the bums out,
but don't condemn the entire country because of a few bad apples.

Is it corrupt when someone votes to have the government confiscate the earnings of one man and give it to another?

Is it corrupt when government forces homeowners to sell their homes so that a large retailer or a pharmaceutical company can build on their land to enhance the tax base?

Is it corrupt when millions of senior citizens vote to force the younger generation to fund their retirement, knowing full well that that younger generation will never get the same benefit?

Is it corrupt when millions of Americans vote to tax "the other guy" to pay for things they want?

Is it corrupt when fiscal policy FORCES citizens to throw their money into the stock market blindly instead of losing it to inflation?

certifiedfunds
10-23-2011, 09:00
Posters come on this forum and post some of the most anti-American stuff like,
Is America Doomed, Is America Evil, Is America Over and we should collapse the entire country and start over.

Everyone of those posts has an underlying message of contempt for this great nation and it's people.

Many posters have stated the American people are stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I stand up and defend this country, and you accuse me of being a shill?:steamed:

..

Some of us long for the country we were promised where man could be free to pursue happiness. You cheer on this corrupt socialist state we've been given.

At some point you need to ask yourself what exactly you're standing up for? Maybe you can tell us all here? What is it? When you "stand" what are you standing for? What you've been told this country is or what it has become in reality?

certifiedfunds
10-23-2011, 09:02
I would like to know the odds on him being a paid shill vs. the most outrageous case of Stockholm syndrome we're likely to encounter in our lives.

I think its a general low level of intelligence coupled with Stockholm Syndrome.

barbedwiresmile
10-23-2011, 10:44
All politicians do not steal money...

Technically you are correct, as I'm sure you are aware that Congress has exempted themselves from Insider Trading laws. So no actual laws are being broken. And that's all that matters.

HarlDane
10-23-2011, 11:09
Is it corrupt when someone votes to have the government confiscate the earnings of one man and give it to another?

Is it corrupt when government forces homeowners to sell their homes so that a large retailer or a pharmaceutical company can build on their land to enhance the tax base?

Is it corrupt when millions of senior citizens vote to force the younger generation to fund their retirement, knowing full well that that younger generation will never get the same benefit?

Is it corrupt when millions of Americans vote to tax "the other guy" to pay for things they want?

Is it corrupt when fiscal policy FORCES citizens to throw their money into the stock market blindly instead of losing it to inflation?No it's called consent of the governed. You, may not like it, I may not like it. But so long as the people keep voting for those who enact these policies, it is what it is.
And at this point the majority of the people want most of the things on your list.

LawScholar
10-23-2011, 11:20
America is at the tipping point, 50% of job holders (voters) are employed in Government non producing jobs, financed by the other Fifty Percent. It is impossible to elect a Government which will stand up for traditional values. We send these lieberals to school until they're almost Thirty Years Old, they have no useful skills, they end up as Lawyers, Teachers or Graffiti Artists. Bogus Government jobs must be created to continue to support these leaches for their entire lives.

Haha

See you at my office when you're rear ended and injured, or someone breaches a contract with you and steals your life savings, or the state accuses you of a murder you didn't commit.

No skills my ass.

Oh, and I'll get my law degree at 25, not 30. :) It's only a 7-year program including undergrad.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2011, 11:35
No it's called consent of the governed. You, may not like it, I may not like it. But so long as the people keep voting for those who enact these policies, it is what it is.
And at this point the majority of the people want most of the things on your list.

Under your definition here "consent of the governed" could permit ANYTHING. Tyranny of the majority. Is tyranny not the very definition of corruption?

I submit that it is wholesale corruption when our government remakes itself into the type of beast which permits this. It is a corrupt society which enables this. Much of what I described is THEFT. Is theft not corruption simply because it is legalized and executed by the government at the behest of the people?

Stubudd
10-23-2011, 12:20
I think its a general low level of intelligence coupled with Stockholm Syndrome.

i don't think so- it's just simple naivete, blissful ignorance

steveksux
10-23-2011, 12:28
You can't separate the two at your convenience. The people elected the
government and are represented by that government. Like it or not.

The America bashers try to separate the two in order to provide cover for
their true feelings of hatred for this country and it's people.Tell that to the Obama bashers.... :tongueout::rofl: just sayin....

Randy

Vic777
10-23-2011, 13:52
Isn't Obama's present Jobs Bill, corruption and fraud of the highest order, attempting to steal Billions and Billions of the honest tax payers hard earned money. Just so an Idiot can have four more years shooting hoops.

certifiedfunds
10-23-2011, 13:55
Isn't Obama's present Jobs Bill, corruption and fraud of the highest order, attempting to steal Billions and Billions of the honest tax payers hard earned money. Just so an Idiot can have four more years shooting hoops.

He's actually stealing from citizens yet unborn. Even worse corruption: Taxation without representation.

"Welcome to the world, here is your bill"

certifiedfunds
10-23-2011, 13:55
i don't think so- it's just simple naivete, blissful ignorance

I'd like to believe that.

Chronos
10-23-2011, 15:39
Is it corrupt when someone votes to have the government confiscate the earnings of one man and give it to another?

Is it corrupt when government forces homeowners to sell their homes so that a large retailer or a pharmaceutical company can build on their land to enhance the tax base?

Is it corrupt when millions of senior citizens vote to force the younger generation to fund their retirement, knowing full well that that younger generation will never get the same benefit?

Is it corrupt when millions of Americans vote to tax "the other guy" to pay for things they want?

Is it corrupt when fiscal policy FORCES citizens to throw their money into the stock market blindly instead of losing it to inflation?

Yes, there is a really, really basic moral point, here.

If it's immoral/corrupt for you to do it as an individual, then it's also immoral/corrupt for you to vote for someone else to do it for you. This includes using force to confiscate the wealth of others.

Thus the modern conception of a state is pretty much immoral from the very beginning -- it doesn't pass even the most basic test of moral consistency. People have simply grown up around it and thus are not able to recognize the elephant in the room, partly because the entity that has seized control of "education" does not want "the educated" to posses the tools necessary to challenge their legitimacy.

Feanor
10-23-2011, 15:54
Tell ya what. Pack up your things and get ready to move. I'll buy you a one way ticket to any other country in the world.

Oh how excellent, America has corruption down to such an art that naive's such as yourself can't even see it for the trees, and as a consequence you embrace it as a sacred institution!

I ask you to cite the historical record here and now, what other nations(combined)in history dished out a mock trillion dollar stimulus, one that was literally a neo-dem re-election slush fund, go on, combined?

Feanor
10-23-2011, 15:56
What is it you want to hear?! "America is terrible!!" There. Does that satiate you?

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

If you would change it to "government is terrible," you'd probably get more agreement.

Touche.

clint curtis
10-30-2011, 21:49
[QUOTE=MinervaDoe;18072769]Pick any country outisde of the U.S. and do an Internet search for "bribe country name"
You'll find stuff like this
Business without 'bribe' in China…not possible
http://www.mynews.in/News/Business_without_%27bribe%27_in_China%E2%80%A6not_possible!_N26347.html

It's fun to play the devils advocate with the U.S. and its policies, but just the fact that you have the right to do so, puts you light years ahead of many countries.[/QUOTE

****This doesn't say much for the morals of BIG BUSINESS in the U.S.A.****

Rabid Rabbit
10-31-2011, 08:27
But the dollar amount of the Government corruption and fraud per capita far exceeds that of any other country in History. By that yardstick the USA is the most corrupt Nation on the Planet.

Not even close. Are you adjusting for inflation and standard of living? I'd bet that any country prior to 1800 is/was more corupt than the US once you take the rate of inflation and standard of living into consideration. Coruption drains money from the citizens. If the US was corupt now as in the past, I don't believe we would be able to have the widepread standard of living that we have now. Today in the US poverty means a 52 inch tv.

Glenn129
10-31-2011, 16:23
America won't hold a candle to Nigeria, holding a legal passport you have to bribe the police to get into that computer scam place.

Vic777
05-03-2012, 11:33
America won't hold a candle to Nigeria, holding a legal passport you have to bribe the police to get into that computer scam place.http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-02/news/ct-met-pensions-daley-20120502_1_higher-union-salaries-public-pension-pension-funds

eracer
05-03-2012, 11:35
The question is meant as a joke - right?

maxsnafu
05-03-2012, 11:43
On a dollar value per Citizen, from local Town Councillors and Mayors to Congressmen and the President, Is Present day America the most corrupt Society in Human History? Are there more dollars stolen by corrupt Politicians per citizen in America than anywhere else on the Planet?

Why do you define "corruption" only in term of financial shenanigans? There are limitless forms of corruption. By whatever standard you want to use the U.S. is not nearly as corrupt as most other nations. Hell, the Soviet Union murdered thirty million of its own citizens. No way we can compete with that.

G-19
05-03-2012, 12:45
It is amazing how many people hate America. Must be a young crowd, that only knows of the outside world from the media. Yes, America has some issues, but it is still the best place in the world.

I have been to several other countries, mostly in Europe, and none compare to the good old US of A.

I agree if it is so bad here and we as a nation are so terrible, why do you stay? You are free to leave any time you want. Make sure before you leave, other countries are not so easy to leave.

walt cowan
05-03-2012, 19:10
On a dollar value per Citizen, from local Town Councillors and Mayors to Congressmen and the President, Is Present day America the most corrupt Society in Human History? Are there more dollars stolen by corrupt Politicians per citizen in America than anywhere else on the Planet?

now you know why everyone hates us.:upeyes:

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 20:43
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-02/news/ct-met-pensions-daley-20120502_1_higher-union-salaries-public-pension-pension-funds

resurrecting zombies? http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs24/f/2007/351/c/d/zombie_by_bad_blood.gifhttp://fc04.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/235/d/6/Zombie_Jump_by_ThePopeGFX.gifhttp://fc00.deviantart.net/fs7/i/2005/245/f/4/_zombieglomp__by_MisterIngo.gifhttp://fc04.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/096/a/5/_zombiepoke__by_darkmoon3636.gif

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 20:44
It is amazing how many people hate America. Must be a young crowd, that only knows of the outside world from the media. Yes, America has some issues, but it is still the best place in the world.

I have been to several other countries, mostly in Europe, and none compare to the good old US of A.

I agree if it is so bad here and we as a nation are so terrible, why do you stay? You are free to leave any time you want. Make sure before you leave, other countries are not so easy to leave.

If people really think this is the most corrupt place on the planet, they haven't seen much of the planet.

domin8ss
05-03-2012, 20:52
If people really think this is the most corrupt place on the planet, they haven't seen much of the planet.

QFT!

However, I think we're up they're. After all, our children are taught to idolize politicians in public school.

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 21:00
QFT!

However, I think we're up they're. After all, our children are taught to idolize politicians in public school.

We have plenty of corruption, but no where near most of the places I have been. 22 countries at last count.

It's an opinion, there are no grading tools for this that do not include a LOT of subjective input.

Anyway, anyone here can move to another country. The world is out there, go live somewhere else for a while. See if that doesn't change your mind if you think we are the most corrupt place in the world. The truth is out there, go find it and report back.

:whistling:

Vic777
05-04-2012, 08:04
QFT!

However, I think we're up they're. After all, our children are taught to idolize politicians in public school.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/05/04/ten-reasons-to-impeach-eric-holder/

muscogee
05-04-2012, 08:17
Re: corruption in the U.S. Someone needs to do their homework. The U.S. norm is overseas virtually an impossible dream.

So true. The OP has never spent much time in Mexico either.

Vic777
05-04-2012, 10:29
So true. The OP has never spent much time in Mexico either.I'm talking dollar value of corruption. The USA Congress steals more per year thru corruption than any other country in the world. Then we have all the local Mayors and Town councils. No Country beats the USA for fraud and corruption.

muscogee
05-04-2012, 12:43
I'm talking dollar value of corruption. The USA Congress steals more per year thru corruption than any other country in the world. Then we have all the local Mayors and Town councils. No Country beats the USA for fraud and corruption.


Ever wonder why the Narco Traffickers control Mexico? Think they do that without the help of the government? A couple of years ago the Federales took over the Nuevo Laredo police force and fired 85% of the personnel for ties to the Narco Traffickers. Things like this happen all the time. Much of the time corrupt officials get away with it. Compared to Mexico we have it good.

VinnieD
05-04-2012, 15:43
Not the most corrupt in history by any measure. Not the most corrupt in the world by a long shot. Maybe the most corrupt it's ever been though. Or more to say the government is corrupt. America is not its government. The people in general are still honest folks who just happen to make bad decisions about leaders.

The amount of corruption in your day to day life is probably a lot less than you'd encounter in Mexico, Iran, China, and so on. When you talk to your neighbor, go to the store, put in an honest day's work, how much corruption do you really encounter from your fellow American? I'd say not that much. Sure there are some bad apples, but America is basically good. But any position of power is going to draw the corrupt by the very nature of corruption.

Glock30Eric
05-04-2012, 15:45
Not the most corrupt in history by any measure. Not the most corrupt in the world by a long shot. Maybe the most corrupt it's ever been though. Or more to say the government is corrupt. America is not its government. The people in general are still honest folks who just happen to make bad decisions about leaders.

The amount of corruption in your day to day life is probably a lot less than you'd encounter in Mexico, Iran, China, and so on. When you talk to your neighbor, go to the store, put in an honest day's work, how much corruption do you really encounter from your fellow American? I'd say not that much. Sure there are some bad apples, but America is basically good. But any position of power is going to draw the corrupt by the very nature of corruption.

Yup


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

hagar
05-04-2012, 20:40
Maybe not the most corrupt, but at least the most corrupt of all the western culture civilized nations. But in the last 15 years I see less and less of the civilized or western culture.

Mister_Beefy
05-04-2012, 23:26
Maybe not the most corrupt, but at least the most corrupt of all the western culture civilized nations.


I disagree.

the socialist welfare states of europe are wrought with corruption.

the U.S. ain't no pickanick, but it really is the top of the pile.

Vic777
05-06-2012, 08:16
Pew Poll: Federal Government ‘Mostly Corrupt’

The favorable rating of the federal government has sunk to just 33 percent, the lowest positive rating in 15 years, a new poll from the Pew Research Center reveals.

At the same time, Americans’ opinion about state and local governments remains mostly favorable.

Two years ago, about two-thirds of Americans had a favorable view of all three levels of government — federal, state, and local. But in the new survey, nearly two-thirds have an unfavorable opinion of Washington.

Among Republicans, just 20 percent have a favorable view of the federal government, while 51 percent of Democrats and 27 percent of independents agree with that assessment.

In contrast, 52 percent of respondents said they still have a favorable view of state government, and 61 percent feel that way about their local government.

“The gap between favorable ratings of the federal government and state and local governments is wider than ever,” Pew observes.

While 49 percent believe their state government is mostly honest and 37 percent say it is mostly corrupt, a majority of those polled said the federal government is mostly corrupt.

Similarly, 38 percent of Americans think their state government is “generally efficient,” but just 24 percent say that about the federal government.

And while 33 percent say state government is “careful with the people’s money,” only 17 percent say that about the government in Washington.

Interestingly, 56 percent of respondents who live in a state where the governor and a majority in both legislative chambers are Republicans say they have a favorable rating of state government, but in states where the governor and legislature are Democratic that figure drops to 47 percent.

As for the federal government’s rating, 53 percent of Republicans held a favorable view of Washington as recently as April 2008, when George W. Bush was president.

Pew notes: “Since Barack Obama’s first year in office, public assessments of the federal government have dropped nine points, with most of the change among Democrats and independents.”

Vic777
01-13-2013, 04:39
this is what I'm talking about ....
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1125813/jackie-chan-back-action-branding-us-more-corrupt-china

Bren
01-13-2013, 05:17
this is what I'm talking about ....
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1125813/jackie-chan-back-action-branding-us-more-corrupt-china

Because if you could take many steps down from the BS "authority" of a poll - especially a Pew poll - you'd eventually get to the awesome and unquestionable opinion of Jackie Chan.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Gullible.+Description_c80677_3171544.jpg

Cavalry Doc
01-13-2013, 20:33
To state it once again, if you think this is bad, try traveling a bit more. You haven't seen nothing yet.

There are plenty of modern day examples that are more corrupt, you don't even need to search history.

jlavallee
01-14-2013, 00:47
Yes, there is a really, really basic moral point, here.

If it's immoral/corrupt for you to do it as an individual, then it's also immoral/corrupt for you to vote for someone else to do it for you. This includes using force to confiscate the wealth of others.

Thus the modern conception of a state is pretty much immoral from the very beginning -- it doesn't pass even the most basic test of moral consistency. People have simply grown up around it and thus are not able to recognize the elephant in the room, partly because the entity that has seized control of "education" does not want "the educated" to posses the tools necessary to challenge their legitimacy.

I'm going off base a bit but I travel through much of the world and while the numbers of awake people here in the US are far smaller than I'd like, I LOVE that it is not uncommon to meet people who states rational views like some of those above in defense of individual liberty and human rights.

Like most libertarians I get disgusted with the whole lesser evil plot some think I must follow. Yes, I get pissed listening to liberals moan about having a right to someone else's property or banning evil guns. Yes, I get pissed at some right winger happy to tell a gay person or drug user that they don't have the right to choose what they put in their body and then complain about liberals forcing their views on them.

As much as I often hate travel and despise that being unarmed is typically the rule, it also has an upside in that I get to return home, wear a gun and listen to people defend liberty and quote the founders. And I appreciate it. It reminds me that America isn't about baseball and apple pie, it is about people who fought to be free and had their leaders believe in the principal so much that instead of becoming the new rulers, they did their best to ensure that the people could toss them if they got out of line. That always inspires me. Yeah, we've got lots to be ashamed of but never forget we've got some good history too. If we can strive to be the people those men strived to be, we're at least going to go in the right direction. Here in America, the individual is intended to be sovereign, what could be more beautiful than that?:patriot:

Vic777
05-15-2013, 07:33
Is fast and furious "over"?
Benghazi?
IRS?
Wiretaps?

I ask again is the USA the most corrupt Nation on Earth?

Flying-Dutchman
05-15-2013, 08:11
Is fast and furious "over"?
Benghazi?
IRS?
Wiretaps?

I ask again is the USA the most corrupt Nation on Earth?

No, the USA is far from being the most corrupt Nation on Earth.

However, the USA is more corrupt today than it has ever been.

SCmasterblaster
05-15-2013, 08:41
Yes. We have way too many leftist democrats in the HR and Senate.

ken grant
05-15-2013, 11:08
We may not be the most corrupt nation but I believe we have the MOST OPENLY CORRUPT ADMINISTRATION in the history of the USA.

They don't really try to hide it and don't care who knows it.
The News Media has covered for them in the past but that may be changing after the AP Story.

Spymaster
05-15-2013, 11:17
Not even close. Neither on a historical basis, nor considering how business is done elsewhere in the world right now.

Absolute, total naivety, bordering on profound ignorance.

Vic777
05-16-2013, 07:23
Is fast and furious "over"?
Benghazi?
IRS?
Wiretaps?

I ask again is the USA the most corrupt Nation on Earth?I forgot to mention the daily murder of thousands of black babies born in abortion clinics across America, but that's a topic for another day.

Vic777
05-16-2013, 07:26
No, the USA is far from being the most corrupt Nation on Earth.In the OP I state: "On a dollar value per Citizen"

SCmasterblaster
05-16-2013, 13:01
Look at the last two Presidential Election results. I'd say that we are.

domin8ss
05-16-2013, 13:23
Are we really qualified to answer this question considering our meager lifetimes are a speck when compared to the entirety of known human history?

domin8ss
05-16-2013, 13:26
I forgot to mention the daily murder of thousands of black babies born in abortion clinics across America, but that's a topic for another day.

Abortion clinics are now working as delivery rooms, and then murdering the babies??? :confused:

SCmasterblaster
05-16-2013, 14:55
Abortion clinics are now working as delivery rooms, and then murdering the babies??? :confused:

There ARE a lot of abortions every year in the USA. :upeyes:

domin8ss
05-19-2013, 08:37
There ARE a lot of abortions every year in the USA. :upeyes:

That's different. An abortion is an abortion. A birth is a birth. No grey area.

IvanVic
05-19-2013, 10:49
I ask again is the USA the most corrupt Nation on Earth?

Easily the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. Have you lived in a vacuum your entire life?

muscogee
05-19-2013, 11:09
Is fast and furious "over"?
Benghazi? Tempest in a teapot.

IRS? Been around for a century. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Wiretaps? Homeland Security Act - George W. Bush

I ask again is the USA the most corrupt Nation on Earth?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States
In particular, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States#1981.E2.80.931989_Ronald_Reagan_Administrati on

Bren
05-19-2013, 11:57
No, the USA is far from being the most corrupt Nation on Earth.

However, the USA is more corrupt today than it has ever been.

You are correct. Probably more corrupt than WE used to be, but still among the least corrupt nations on earth. Most posters here are like teenagers hoping to make up a fictional evil they can rebel against (as long as rebelling is safe, convenient and inexpensive).

Kablam
05-19-2013, 13:46
Tempest in a teapot.

4 dead Americans and a blatant cover up.


Been around for a century. Nothing to see here. Move along.

In that case it's just fine.



Homeland Security Act - George W. Bush



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States
In particular, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States#1981.E2.80.931989_Ronald_Reagan_Administrati on

Bush's fault. At least he told us he was going to do it.

:tongueout:

muscogee
05-19-2013, 17:24
4 dead Americans and a blatant cover up. How many died in Iraq and were getting paid a lot less? War is Hell.

In that case it's just fine. Not fine. Not unique. Not as bad as Nixon. [/QUOTE]

Bush's fault. At least he told us he was going to do it.

:tongueout: And the Republicans were all on board with it. That makes it alright.

Kablam
05-19-2013, 19:10
I didn't realize we were in a war in Lybia. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

So since Nixon and others were dirt bags we should turn a blind eye to your Dear Leader. Got it.

And the democrats are using to the hilt. Why didn't your guys repeal it if its so bad? Or maybe not use the provisions of it. They have no problem being selective about the law.

Spymaster
05-19-2013, 20:31
To state it once again, if you think this is bad, try traveling a bit more. You haven't seen nothing yet.

There are plenty of modern day examples that are more corrupt, you don't even need to search history.

I have traveled, extensively. My feeling is that you are confusing street crime, and accompanying third world police corruption, as evidence of a superior level of corruption.

Nothing could be further from the truth, what allows such third world landscapes to stand out, is their primitiveness by way of comparison, to what you have come to know here.

The USA is unmatched in all of human history, its very founding was based upon one fraudulent contract after another. Every "treaty" crafted, and then signed was cast into the trash as some new wealth was discovered that could be exploited. Whole societies of human beings were exterminated, or ripped from their ancestral lands in the name of "manifest destiny!"

The entire fabric of this "nation" is one colossal corruption, its modern iteration being the most sophisticated pyramid scheme ever unleashed in all of human history.

So sophisticated is this corruption that the vast vast bulk of the nations citizens know no better, and think no better.

TxGun
05-19-2013, 22:06
To state it once again, if you think this is bad, try traveling a bit more. You haven't seen nothing yet.

There are plenty of modern day examples that are more corrupt, you don't even need to search history.

You are absolutely correct Doc. Some of these people really need to get out (travel) more. If anyone believes this country is the "most corrupt", they are demonstrating a distinct lack of knowledge. Hell, at least corrupt politicians and other leaders in this country usually try to hide their moral failings...in many countries around the world, they don't even bother. In fact, they more-or-less advertise it openly to increase their 'business' opportunities. Anyone who has even been as far as Mexico could never argue this point with any degree of credibility. As far as indigenous people...I can only laugh at that as an example of why "we" are more corrupt than other countries. History says different. History absolutely shows us that primitive, indigenous people in virtually every corner of the globe have suffered at the onslaught of civilization. And suffered by design. In fact, it's happening right now in many countries around the planet. Furthermore, indigenous people in this land, and every other land where they existed, never lived with each other in peace and harmony, LOL. Typically, they all did their dead-level best to exterminate their competition...and sometimes succeeded. And, know what?...that's simply evolution and the way nature works. Unfortunate? Yeah, probably. Inevitable? Absolutely.

muscogee
05-19-2013, 22:29
I didn't realize we were in a war in Lybia. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Regardless of who's war it was, out people were in a war zone. They went there willingly and got paid much more than the troops in Iraq. The Republicans are just grandstanding. They didn't get upset over the troops we lost in Iraq.

So since Nixon and others were dirt bags we should turn a blind eye to your Dear Leader. Got it. It's OK when Republicans do it but not when Democrats do it. Got it.

And the democrats are using to the hilt. Why didn't your guys repeal it if its so bad? Or maybe not use the provisions of it. They have no problem being selective about the law. More Republican grandstanding. See above.

The fact that I'm able to see through Republican hypocrisy doesn't make the Democrats, "my guys". The same people control both parties. Notice how just as the Republicans were about to completely self destruct the Democrats did the only thing they could do to revive the Republicans and jumped on the gun control wagon even though every politician in the country knew it didn't stand a chance of passing. The true believers in both parties are just puppets on strings.

Kablam
05-19-2013, 22:48
I never said it was OK when republicans did it, did I? A scumbag looter is a scumbag looter. I will in no way make excuses for them. I agree that scumbag looters run both parties. So the conclusion is that nothing the democrats are doing or getting caught doing is the fault of the republicans. I just find it interesting that when the democrats get caught being the scumbags now days, we can count on somebody pulling out examples of republicans doing the same thing or pointing to some bad republican policy that democrats are more than happy to employ now that they are in the driver's seat.

Doesn't matter anyhow. We all know what's going on and who is in charge now.

Gundude
05-19-2013, 23:54
I just find it interesting that when the democrats get caught being the scumbags now days, we can count on somebody pulling out examples of republicans doing the same thing or pointing to some bad republican policy that democrats are more than happy to employ now that they are in the driver's seat.It helps to learn why Democrats are being such scumbags now days. They're "standing on the shoulders of giants", so to speak. Generations of Republicans and Democrats alike laid the groundwork for them, and those who cheered them on when it was "their" guys in charge have no business whining about it now.

What I find interesting is those who are so insistent on forgetting the past, fearing they might have to come to terms with their own complicity in today's state of affairs. The past matters. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, remember?

Kablam
05-19-2013, 23:55
I rest my case.

Spymaster
05-20-2013, 12:02
It helps to learn why Democrats are being such scumbags now days. They're "standing on the shoulders of giants", so to speak. Generations of Republicans and Democrats alike laid the groundwork for them, and those who cheered them on when it was "their" guys in charge have no business whining about it now.

What I find interesting is those who are so insistent on forgetting the past, fearing they might have to come to terms with their own complicity in today's state of affairs. The past matters. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, remember?

Yes the past, forgotten!


The Republican Revolution, Revolution of '94 or Gingrich Revolution is what the media dubbed the Republican Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)) (GOP) success in the 1994 U.S. midterm elections (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_elections,_1994),[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Revolution#cite_note-1) which resulted in a net gain of 54 seats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_1994) in the House of Representatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives), and a pickup of eight seats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_1994) in the Senate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate). The clear leader of the so-called revolution was Republican congressman Newt Gingrich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt_Gingrich), who became Speaker of the House (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_of_the_US_House_of_Representatives) as a result of the victory. The day after the election, Democratic Senator Richard Shelby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Shelby) of Alabama changed parties, becoming a Republican.
The gains in seats in the mid-term election resulted in the Republicans gaining control of both the House and the Senate in January 1995. Republicans had not held the majority in the House for forty years, since the 83rd Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighty-third_United_States_Congress) (elected in 1952 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_election,_1952)).
Large Republican gains were made in state houses as well when the GOP picked up twelve gubernatorial seats and 472 legislative seats. In so doing, it took control of 20 state legislatures from the Democrats. Prior to this, Republicans had not held the majority of governorships since 1972. In addition, this was the first time in 50 years that the GOP controlled a majority of state legislatures.
Discontent against the Democrats was foreshadowed by a string of elections after 1992, including the capture of the mayoralties of New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York) and Los Angeles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles) by the Republicans in 1993. In that same year, Christine Todd Whitman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Todd_Whitman) captured the New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey) governorship from the Democrats and Bret Schundler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Schundler) became the first Republican mayor of Jersey City, New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_City,_New_Jersey) that had been held by the Democratic Party since 1917.
Republican George Allen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Allen_(politician)) won the 1993 Virginia Governor election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_gubernatorial_election,_1993). Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Bailey_Hutchison) took a U.S. Senate seat from the Democrats in the 1993 special election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_special_election_in_Texas,_1993). Republicans Frank Lucas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Lucas_(politician)) and Ron Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Lewis) picked up two congressional seats from Democrats in Oklahoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma) and Kentucky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky) in May 1994.

National democratic socialists have been calling the shots for a long, long time. Republicans are absolute pikers, by way of direct comparison when it comes to corruption!

Vic777
10-01-2013, 06:02
Let's get used to operating without the corrupt government meddling in ever facet of our lives. This shutdown is a real chance to set up procedures and operations which don't need government meddling and corruption to function. This is a chance to do without government. "We the people", that is the only true America!

series1811
10-01-2013, 06:52
Having lived all over the United States, and traveled around a good bit of the world, I have learned that corruption is just endemic to politics. A certain percentage of the people who run for office, do so, for no other reason than to personally enrich themselves at the public's expense.

It is what it is, no matter where you go.