Longshot for 9mm minor [Archive] - Glock Talk

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njl
10-22-2011, 16:07
I posted this over at BE, but have gotten no replies over there. Not happy with the velocity I can get with X-Treme 147gr and the powders I've been using (Universal Clays and WST), I decided to try another. Based on what's available locally, and the data from Hodgdon's data center, I decided to try Longshot...figuring I should easily be able to load them to around 950fps with room to spare. I haven't been able to find much in the way of other people using Longshot. I have seen a few favorable posts...but I just wonder if anyone here uses it?

I'm guessing somewhere around 4.4gr might do.

Colorado4Wheel
10-22-2011, 16:14
Your just going to have to do it. Do you have a chrono. That is definitely not the powder most would use for a MINOR load. You only need 890 to comfortable make Minor with that weight bullet (130PF). At 950fps you will be at 140 PF. Nice load but definitely not a gamer/minor load.

DWARREN123
10-22-2011, 16:51
I use Longshot in 40 S&W/10mm and have found it does not do well for mild loads in these calibers.
Never used it in 9mm.

freakshow10mm
10-22-2011, 16:55
Responsible gamers load to 135-140PF, which is nearly guaranteed to make PF and is what factory ammunition is loaded to perform.

Longshot is not a soft gamer powder. It has pronounced muzzle flash and being a slow burning powder it will have more recoil than faster powders with regard to sight tracking.

Clays, WST, WSF, N320, TG are all gamer type powders for Minor 9.

Longshot in the 9mm will do better with 115gr and 124gr bullets at top velocity than it will with 147gr bullets at low velocity. Longshot is a reformulation of HS7/W571. Think of it in those terms; a bit slower than HS6/W540.

Colorado4Wheel
10-22-2011, 17:14
I know nobody loading to 135-140 PF. It's just not needed to be safe and reliable. Over 130PF is where most people load.

fredj338
10-22-2011, 17:39
I think LS is too slow for a good 925-930fps load, about all the cushion you should need for making PF. Most of the medium burners & a few faster burners make that easily. WST, W231, Unique, WSF, Universal, PP or HS6 is about as slow as I would want to go for that soft a load.

freakshow10mm
10-22-2011, 19:09
I know nobody loading to 135-140 PF. It's just not needed to be safe and reliable. Over 130PF is where most people load.
Most shooters on BE load to 135PF.

Hoser
10-22-2011, 19:48
I know nobody loading to 135-140 PF. It's just not needed to be safe and reliable. Over 130PF is where most people load.

Thats because your not responsible...

When I was pushing for GM, I shot at about a 180 pf. Wait, wrong gun. 130 pf was my goal.

Hoser
10-22-2011, 19:48
Longshot is a poor choice for minor. Good for Major though.

njl
10-22-2011, 20:08
Longshot is a poor choice for minor. Good for Major though.

Why? I bought it based on this:

147 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Longshot .355" 1.100" 3.8 851 25,700 PSI 4.7 1004 33,800 PSI

851 - 1004fps seemed like a good range and a powder that would be safe for loading 147gr to the mid 900's.

I'm kind of struggling with the X-Treme 147gr bullets. Initially, I was happy with them over 3.4gr Universal, but then I had them tumbling out of my G34, and recently noticed they're not entirely consistently accurate out of my G17...which is what I shoot the most. I figured I'd try driving them faster, and Universal was already near or beyond max (depending on who's data you use), and I didn't want to push WST much further with no published data.

Bogey
10-22-2011, 20:18
I know this does not address your particular bullet and powder, but A Montana Gold 147g over 3.2 of Tite Group (1.15OAL) makes 132 PF and is a VERY accurate and soft load. Many USPSA and IDPA shooters use this load.

Not familiar with the XTP. Is the MG 147 similar? I would spring for some TG if you can and try it if the bullets are similar.

Colorado4Wheel
10-22-2011, 20:44
Why? I bought it based on this:

Because it's really slow for a Minor powder.

Solo 1000 would work. TG would be better.
Tumbling is likely a crimp issue.

njl
10-22-2011, 20:48
I've already tried easing off on the crimp as much as possible. Perhaps plated bullets and I just aren't going to get along.

Colorado4Wheel
10-22-2011, 20:50
Are you chronoing them?

GioaJack
10-22-2011, 20:52
Are you chronoing them?


Is that a real word or are you just making it up?


Jack

Hoser
10-22-2011, 21:31
Is that a real word or are you just making it up?


I wonder if Chronoshooter is a word?

Zombie Steve
10-22-2011, 23:27
If you're going for the flamethrower thing, don't half-ass it. Go with Blue Dot.

Poppa Bear
10-23-2011, 00:21
Longshot, or "Loudshot" as it is also known as, is not a good powder for minor loads. It is a slow enough powder that it will make major without having to really try unless you are shooting it out of a 3" barrel.

I used it for a .40 load using a Precision 185 gr bullet. I was just shy of 165 PF at the minimum load, and made major .2 grains up from there. The recoil was a good bit stouter than my former powder Ramshot's True Blue. It would be a great choice for hunting loads though, it takes a lot to push it into max pressure territory so you can get a good high speed high PF load without blowing your gun up.

My current powder is Clays. Much softer shooting, much quieter shooting, and I can still make major PF.

njl
10-23-2011, 06:45
I have a chrony and always chrono new loads.

Maybe I'll call and see what Bass Pro's return policy is on powder. I'm guessing even unopened, they don't want it back.

xXGearheadXx
10-23-2011, 06:56
I get 1050 fps with 3.8 gr BE and a 124gr MG JHP, loaded to 1.145 COL. Nice, accurate round out of my G17(cheap too). I ripped up a steel challenge match with these yesterday. Recoil is less than any factory load i've shot.

njl
10-23-2011, 07:10
I get 1050 fps with 3.8 gr BE and a 124gr MG JHP, loaded to 1.145 COL. Nice, accurate round out of my G17(cheap too). I ripped up a steel challenge match with these yesterday. Recoil is less than any factory load i've shot.

I get about the same FPS from a G17 with 4.3gr Universal and MG or PD 124gr bullets...and they're milder than factory 115gr...but the 147gr load around 900fps is so much softer. I just may have to splurge and try some 147gr jacketed bullets instead of these plated ones.

I'm starting to wonder if Freak gets some kind of kickbacks from X-Treme. :freak:

:)

Colorado4Wheel
10-23-2011, 07:19
Plated can be more difficult and temperamental. No reason for a Plated bullet to not work at 135PF. I would try some jacketed.

shotgunred
10-23-2011, 10:34
Most shooters on BE load to 135PF.

I never load my IDPA rounds for more than 130 PF.

Tightgroup is plenty accurate at 130 PF.

tjpet
10-23-2011, 11:10
Try 3.8grns. WST w/147grn. bullet of your choice. It's good for 940fps, on average, from a variety of 4-5" barreled semi-autos.

This load also happens to be superbly accurate, clean burning inside AND outside the gun plus very low recoiling. I use random cases and SP primers - both mag and non-mag - with equal results. OAL is 1.150" and fits every mag I've tried it in with a bit of room to spare.

Although there's no factory published data for this load it's been listed on various gun sites for some time. I "discovered" it with the use of a Powley Powder Computer a few years back.

This is the best GP 9mm load I've ever used.

njl
10-30-2011, 16:04
I tried out some Longshot loads today with Xtreme 147gr plated bullets. I can see now why some call it loudshot. I didn't notice muzzle flash, but I usually don't from behind the gun.

With my G17, at 4.2gr, I was getting an avg of 896fps. At 4.6, I was getting an avg of 972fps. From my G34, add about 25fps to those. The 4.2 load wasn't too bad feeling and was very accurate. The heavier loads were not any softer than shooting 124gr @1100fps with Universal.

It occurred to me while doing the testing that this might be a great powder for loading the 147gr GDHP's I have, if I wanted to load my own SD ammo. I'll have to load some of those and chrono them out of a G26 and see how much velocity is lost with the short barrel.

njl
10-30-2011, 16:11
Try 3.8grns. WST w/147grn. bullet of your choice. It's good for 940fps, on average, from a variety of 4-5" barreled semi-autos.

This load also happens to be superbly accurate, clean burning inside AND outside the gun plus very low recoiling. I use random cases and SP primers - both mag and non-mag - with equal results. OAL is 1.150" and fits every mag I've tried it in with a bit of room to spare.

Although there's no factory published data for this load it's been listed on various gun sites for some time. I "discovered" it with the use of a Powley Powder Computer a few years back.

This is the best GP 9mm load I've ever used.

Looking over my data, 3.6gr is the furthest I've gone with WST and 147gr bullets.

Back when I was scouring the net for WST data, I did find this:

HXTP 147 WST 4.0 935 1.10OAL

I guess I can try 3.8 and see how it does.

wdphillips
11-02-2011, 11:49
Is that a real word or are you just making it up?


Jack

Heck I never even got to that one. I am still struggling with GAMER, MINOR, and MAJOR!

Colorado4Wheel
11-02-2011, 13:56
You got the order wrong.

It's....

Minor=Major Gamer.

Steve Koski
11-02-2011, 14:09
Longshot for minor? Why not try some blue dot, or H110?

Hoser
11-02-2011, 14:20
Longshot for minor? Why not try some blue dot, or H110?

Maybe Varget? H50BMG might be a bit too bulky. You could get there with a few kenals.

cysoto
11-02-2011, 15:09
I know nobody loading to 135-140 PF. It's just not needed to be safe and reliable. Over 130PF is where most people load.
The Minor load I shoot out of my G34 makes 135PF; that's with 124gr Zero bullets.

I went to that PF just so I could shoot the same load through my G17 and not have to worry about going sub-minor. It also knocks down the steel quite well and, in case a surprise chronograph station pops up at any of the matches, I never have to worry about not making PF.

To the OP: Ditch the Longshot. There are many other (and better powders) that can get you the results you seek and do so more effectively.

njl
11-03-2011, 19:35
Looking through my log book again, I see I have tried 3.8gr WST with the 147gr X-Treme bullets. From the G17, I only got 917fps. I think I'm going to load up around 50 each of 4.2gr Longshot and 3.8 WST and shoot them side by side to compare feel and accuracy. The 4.2gr LS load was really accurate.