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ateamer
10-23-2011, 04:53
Things that frustrate the hell out of me about law enforcement:
-Supervision and management. What happened to leadership? We don't need managers. We need people who will lead, command and act.
-Sworn law enforcement officers who don't wear a gun.
-Sworn law enforcement officers who don't wear a uniform when they don't work an assignment such as detectives. There is no reason why admin division shouldn't be in full uniform, including full duty belts.
-Department leadership that is stuck in the past and clings to tradition for tradition's sake. It's the 21st century - long past time to allow external carriers, functional headgear, nylon duty rigs, suspenders, cloth badges and name tapes. Save the bling for funerals and parades.
-People who aren't gun guys making decisions about guns. Why should someone who doesn't even wear a gun when he's on duty, nor wear a uniform, be allowed to make decisions about firearms?
-One size fits all. Not. Officers need to be allowed to choose the guns that they will shoot the best with and that give them the most confidence. Not just pistols, but rifles too. Pretty good chance that anyone who is going to spend the money and effort to get different than issue, and even custom, firearms knows his stuff better than someone who isn't into guns, was never a firearms instructor and never an armorer.
-Chain of command. Submit an idea through the chain of command and it disappears when it gets "misfiled", dies in committee or gets so watered down as to be pointless to even try to implement it by that point. Why not just go straight to the decision maker for the particular solution you are suggesting and make your pitch?
-Committees and study groups. Screw that, make a decision and let's get on with it.
-Paying an outsider to write policy. How could a former highway patrolman possibly know what the best procedures are for sheriff's offices and police departments? Lexipol, I'm talking to you. It's just CALEA with a different name.
-Political correctness. It was a whole lot more fun when we could say whatever the **** we wanted in roll call. It's closed door, there aren't people in the room who might get offended. It's amazing to see the reactions from some younger people to things that used to be considered pretty tame.

AngryBassets
10-23-2011, 08:14
War and Peace:

Things that frustrate the hell out of me about law enforcement:
-Supervision and management. What happened to leadership? We don't need managers. We need people who will lead, command and act.


Because they are afraid of the person above them, and/or because that person doesn't respect them.

-Sworn law enforcement officers who don't wear a gun.

Think about some of your admin and rear-echelon pogues. Now, think about them showing up to an active shooter scene, etc, with their gun. They...no, WE are better off with them not having a gun.

-Sworn law enforcement officers who don't wear a uniform when they don't work an assignment such as detectives. There is no reason why admin division shouldn't be in full uniform, including full duty belts.

Ok; I agree, however, let me lay this out for you:

In my place, Lts are "management". Sgts are "supervisors", and Cpts are the "command staff". Now, when I was promoted, I was to be the weekend watch commander. This meant Fri-Mon, 1400 to midnight. Two other lts worked Mon-thur evenings and tues-fri dayworks. It worked out perfect.To me, this was pretty much a dream come true. I "owned" the weekends, had plenty of time to take care of my ancillary admin crap.

Bosses changed, and now there are three (3) lts working daywork. So much for the watch commander concept :upeyes: We apparently need people around so a Certain Someone doesn't have to do ANYTHING...I mean, this Certain Someone doesn't even answer his desk phone. He stares at the in-house cameras on his computer in between masturbating to Cabellas.com. That's IT.

I now do the work I have (35 marked car fleet mgr...quartermaster...radio/dispatch liason...and a bunch of other crap), and everything his predecessor did. So if I make it out of my office for lunch, I'm shocked.

Anyway, I digress.

The admin (and dets, but that's another rant) have nice embroidered polo shirts, 5.11's we can wear. This Certain Someone gets promoted (did I mention he failed the test, but was promoted anyway?) and, since his nice embroidered polo shirts are 90 days out from our awful uniform vendor, decides that we will wear our uniforms every day but fridays, which will be "dress down day" since we apparently work at some mortgage company or something where they do dumb crap like this. He wears jeans and some form of ugly button up shirt. I wear the polo and 5.11s.

Now, all of my shirts are tailored to wear with a vest. And my duty belt is set up the same as it was 7 years ago when I was a patrolman. two cuffs, holster for a gun with a light, stick, yadda yadda. This is because as a Watch Commander, I was more often than not, on the road.

When we got promoted, we got a compliment of white uniform shirts. As a street cop, these are worthless. Plus, they are tailored to be worn without a vest.

So, now I sit at a desk all day, in my comfortable white shirt, wearing a minimum amount of stuff: mags, OC, single cuffs, gun, radio (without the shoulder mic). My over vest carrier sits in my car, holding everything else. The only time I'm going to even interact with the public is when I fly out to a scene or some type of major event, and the vest will be on before I leave the lot.

Moral of the story: I agree, but sitting in a hot as hell office (year round) with a vest/battle rattle/etc on SUCKS and is very uncomfortable.

-Department leadership that is stuck in the past and clings to tradition for tradition's sake. It's the 21st century - long past time to allow external carriers, functional headgear, nylon duty rigs, suspenders, cloth badges and name tapes. Save the bling for funerals and parades.

I truly believe that management would look at this as "giving away the store" by allowing this. Our department allows nothing you mentioned. Hell, we wear our gunbelt through our pant loops like it's 1910. Yes, bizarre.

-People who aren't gun guys making decisions about guns. Why should someone who doesn't even wear a gun when he's on duty, nor wear a uniform, be allowed to make decisions about firearms?

-One size fits all. Not. Officers need to be allowed to choose the guns that they will shoot the best with and that give them the most confidence. Not just pistols, but rifles too. Pretty good chance that anyone who is going to spend the money and effort to get different than issue, and even custom, firearms knows his stuff better than someone who isn't into guns, was never a firearms instructor and never an armorer.

Credit where it's due: our "gun guy" is a just that. Strong opinions I don't always agree with, but his come from a position of knowledge greater than mine, and I respect them. Incidentally, our chief carries a compact 1911. He has mentioned buying 1911's for the best shooters in the department, which is UNHEARD of in this area (or this state, for that matter). We are literally this week issuing our a new compliment of Glocks, 23's or 22's, officer's choice. This is also unheard of around here. My current gen 3 23 will be replaced with a gen 4 on Wednesday.

-Chain of command. Submit an idea through the chain of command and it disappears when it gets "misfiled", dies in committee or gets so watered down as to be pointless to even try to implement it by that point. Why not just go straight to the decision maker for the particular solution you are suggesting and make your pitch?

OMG, I'm going to sound like an admin turd:
Because you will be bothered by some real idiots with ideas that are, at times, dumber than things even brain-dead admin types come up with. When this reaches my level, I do meet with the officer and his sgt. If it's a dumb idea or won't work for us, I explain why. If it's a good idea, I forward it to my boss, and tell the officer this.

Then, it gets to his desk where it atrophies, turns yellow, dries up and is eventually "filed". :upeyes: All this occurs with no feedback whatsoever, other than perhaps an initial "no".

-Committees and study groups. Screw that, make a decision and let's get on with it.

This works both ways. If I made a decision about who gets the 6 new cars we are equipping, and got on with it, I may give them to people who don't deserve it. Instead, I met with the sgts and they gave me recommendations as to which of their guys deserve them, and I found no reason to not follow their recommendations. This, in my opinion, gives back some ownership of their squads which has been SIGNIFICANTLY eroded in the past few years.

-Paying an outsider to write policy. How could a former highway patrolman possibly know what the best procedures are for sheriff's offices and police departments? Lexipol, I'm talking to you. It's just CALEA with a different name.

We're going through the scam that is CALEA now. I don't find their policies all that intrusive, really. Of course, we're probably not following them correctly, either. :wavey:

-Political correctness. It was a whole lot more fun when we could say whatever the **** we wanted in roll call. It's closed door, there aren't people in the room who might get offended. It's amazing to see the reactions from some younger people to things that used to be considered pretty tame.

Not an issue here. We have some guys that say things, about things, that make even me run out of the room, in my white shirt, like a scalded dog...laughing all the way....

blueiron
10-23-2011, 09:49
Be patient. Retirement is worth it.

I ran into a guy I worked with and who retired 11 years ago. He went back on the job with a college PD because he couldn't or wouldn't do anything else. After the obligatory greetings and catch up, he started in on the kvetching about the job and all the related issues. I couldn't help but notice how much he looked like literal hell after over thirty years of the job.

Do your time and get out. There is happiness in the world, but it isn't found in a job where not one admin puke cares beyond their next promotion.

PinkoCommie
10-23-2011, 09:56
Chain of command should be for *commands*. Ideas, questions, and general conversation should flow freely, regardless of rank. Once a superior tells me what I am going to do and how I am going to do it, though, I shut the eff up and do it. Supervisors who get bent out of shape because I talked to a commander or the deputy chief in the hallway and something came out of it need to realize that chain of command does not prevent me from having polite conversation with any member of the department.

packsaddle
10-23-2011, 10:41
generally speaking, the amount of frustration is directly proportional to the size of the department.

we don't have layers and layers of supervisory staff where i work.

sheriff --> chief deputy --> 1 investigator --> 2 sergeants --> 4 deputies

anybody can walk into anybody's office at any time and talk about work or the weather.

yes, everyone has their little idiosynchrasies, but that's natural.

our policy manual is less than 10 pages.

i'm pretty sure i wouldn't like working at a huge department.

AngryBassets
10-23-2011, 11:13
generally speaking, the amount of frustration is directly proportional to the size of the department.

we don't have layers and layers of supervisory staff where i work.

sheriff --> chief deputy --> 1 investigator --> 2 sergeants --> 4 deputies

anybody can walk into anybody's office at any time and talk about work or the weather.

yes, everyone has their little idiosynchrasies, but that's natural.

our policy manual is less than 10 pages.

i'm pretty sure i wouldn't like working at a huge department.

I can guarantee you wouldn't. Ha; I'm jealous.

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Mattz
10-23-2011, 13:59
I feel the frustration, Ateamer.

We recently got a new Sgt. who seems to like rolling all the calls, keeping tabs on where every officer is at all times, managing who is on a call, how long they're on a call, etc. We're all adults, we all know what it takes to keep the shift moving. Good supervisors are few and far between, unfortunately.

Cochese
10-23-2011, 15:36
Chain of command should be for *commands*. Ideas, questions, and general conversation should flow freely, regardless of rank. Once a superior tells me what I am going to do and how I am going to do it, though, I shut the eff up and do it. Supervisors who get bent out of shape because I talked to a commander or the deputy chief in the hallway and something came out of it need to realize that chain of command does not prevent me from having polite conversation with any member of the department.

Wow. Quoted for freaking truth.

I met one of your sergeants the other night. I was impressed with her. Nom nom nom.

CAcop
10-23-2011, 20:15
Do you need someone to tell you it could be worse. You could be working on the other side of the river.

But seriously...

Things that frustrate the hell out of me about law enforcement:
-Supervision and management. What happened to leadership? We don't need managers. We need people who will lead, command and act.

Preach it brother, preach it.

-Sworn law enforcement officers who don't wear a gun.

Otherwise known as targets.

-Sworn law enforcement officers who don't wear a uniform when they don't work an assignment such as detectives. There is no reason why admin division shouldn't be in full uniform, including full duty belts.

They're special. The lack of uniform should tell you they are suprerior to you.

-Department leadership that is stuck in the past and clings to tradition for tradition's sake. It's the 21st century - long past time to allow external carriers, functional headgear, nylon duty rigs, suspenders, cloth badges and name tapes. Save the bling for funerals and parades.

Hey, you guys get cargo pants on patrol. We are still stuck in 1985 on days.

-People who aren't gun guys making decisions about guns. Why should someone who doesn't even wear a gun when he's on duty, nor wear a uniform, be allowed to make decisions about firearms?

Fortunately for us our clown retires in 2-3 years. I really wish his first ex-wife had not taken part of his pension back when Miami Vice was first run TV.

-One size fits all. Not. Officers need to be allowed to choose the guns that they will shoot the best with and that give them the most confidence. Not just pistols, but rifles too. Pretty good chance that anyone who is going to spend the money and effort to get different than issue, and even custom, firearms knows his stuff better than someone who isn't into guns, was never a firearms instructor and never an armorer.

One of the few bonuses for working for my circus of a department is putting that 1911 in my hoslter in the morning. I can hear angels singing when it hits leather.

-Chain of command. Submit an idea through the chain of command and it disappears when it gets "misfiled", dies in committee or gets so watered down as to be pointless to even try to implement it by that point. Why not just go straight to the decision maker for the particular solution you are suggesting and make your pitch?

I pitched an idea once. I never heard from it again once it left the Captain's desk. As far as I know it is still being "considered." I heard unoffcially the chief wasn't thrilled with it. It was for goatees in uniform since any admin pogue can wear one why not? Around here as long as you don't look like you fell face first in a tackle box you look professional.

-Committees and study groups. Screw that, make a decision and let's get on with it.

Nobody can make a decision. That might make someone mad.

-Paying an outsider to write policy. How could a former highway patrolman possibly know what the best procedures are for sheriff's offices and police departments? Lexipol, I'm talking to you. It's just CALEA with a different name.

Lexipol was good for us. Of course our policies were written 15-20 years before we replaced them. They were so out of date it wasn't funny. I think one of them referenced revolvers when I started a decade after they got rid of them.

-Political correctness. It was a whole lot more fun when we could say whatever the **** we wanted in roll call. It's closed door, there aren't people in the room who might get offended. It's amazing to see the reactions from some younger people to things that used to be considered pretty tame.

I guess we are lucky we have a few women who can top us in un PC talk in roll call. They break the ice.


My latest ***** is how people will skip from one specialty assignment to specialty assigment until they get promoted. I swear we have some Sgts. and above that have more time in uniform as a supervisor or manager than as an officer.

Then there are the officers who are so into dope they poach in other officer's beats and then they blow off every call they can in their own. This annoying behavior of course gets them a narc spot somewhere.

The flip side are the people who spend their days writing warrants on patrol while others handle their beats. Soon to be detectives.

Sgts. who go to management schools and then proptly disregard everything they ever learned there on how to be a good manager or supervisor.

Closely realted is the manager whose first response to anything is "No" other than it requires no real work to be done.

10 years, 2 months, 3 weeks, and 4 days, and a wake up.

collim1
10-23-2011, 20:31
Hang in there Ateamer, My dept was in the stone age a few years ago and then nearly the entire admin retired within two years of each other.

Guess who got promoted all of the sudden? All of the people who smooched their butts for the last 15years.

I am having a tough time right now also. Only thing I disagree with you on is the uniforms. I am issued a class B, but it only gets range duty. I have worn a class A my entire career. I like the traditional look.

JBaird22
10-23-2011, 21:48
I am sure if you get enough cops in a room, we could all tell stories that would "top this" in levels of suck. I won't air my agencies dirt in public but I will say this for myself: I am a leader, not a manager or supervisor. I have sat in many a supervision staff meeting thinking "I am not cut out for this." As soon as I can get to another agency with different suck I will be gone and never again will I have the bad idea of asking to be a supervisor.

lawman800
10-23-2011, 23:11
Don't get me started... But then again, I see the other side, having sat in that role. Sometimes there's nothing you can do in face of a bureaucracy.

lwt210
10-24-2011, 09:31
I won't air my agencies dirt in public.

Me neither. I'd hate to cause a nuclear winter by blocking out all the sun's rays.

About the only thing I can add is how disheartening it was when the focus on catching criminals shifted to catching cops violating minor SOPs.

Better to sit around and do the bare minimum than risk suspensions. That mentality will earn you great performance reviews. For me, that line of thought is sickening.

Real morale killer. Probably the worst of all the aforementioned whines and moans. I am over the hump for nearing retirement....unless they change it to 30 years and age 58......like they are threatening to do. Hope being vested saves me from an extra five years till I am paroled from this line of work.

Regards.

Hack
10-24-2011, 09:59
generally speaking, the amount of frustration is directly proportional to the size of the department.

we don't have layers and layers of supervisory staff where i work.

sheriff --> chief deputy --> 1 investigator --> 2 sergeants --> 4 deputies

anybody can walk into anybody's office at any time and talk about work or the weather.

yes, everyone has their little idiosynchrasies, but that's natural.

our policy manual is less than 10 pages.
i'm pretty sure i wouldn't like working at a huge department.

WOW! I am nearly jealous. Ours has so much stuff and fluff it is hard to remember all of the rules. We have it down pat though. Don't snitch on your brother unless it is life threatening, or a real felony, (where I work), watch each other's back. For those of us who think this way we simply do our jobs for our assigned post, and go on home at the end of the day.

But, I will be honest here. Although I am not against unions and good management practices, but because there are those few who abuse the system in some ways for us it has become necessary to design and implement enough policy to cover about every issue.

IGotIt
10-24-2011, 10:20
Bottom line is the higher up you get, the more political correct you need to be in order to keep your position or go higher in rank. ( read: kiss butt)

It's extremely rare to find a good command officer who will stand behind his/her troops to get the job done in the correct and most efficient manner without worrying what the chief, the administrator, or the mayor will say or do.

4FTTY4
10-24-2011, 12:22
Knowing what you know now about your agency and the fact that it's stuck in the stone age, would you have stuck around for 20 plus years or gone somewhere else?

PinkoCommie
10-24-2011, 14:52
Wow. Quoted for freaking truth.

I met one of your sergeants the other night. I was impressed with her. Nom nom nom.

Yeah, I'll email you about her...

lawman800
10-24-2011, 15:12
I would have done it differently. No doubt about it.

ateamer
10-24-2011, 16:22
Knowing what you know now about your agency and the fact that it's stuck in the stone age, would you have stuck around for 20 plus years or gone somewhere else?
That's a tough question. So many of the people are great, and the admin is definitely not out to get anyone, which are huge positives. But if I had two years on and knew what I know now, I would probably be looking elsewhere, especially if I was from a much nicer, more normal part of the state.

lawman800
10-24-2011, 16:29
Normal in california is all relative.

ArmaGlock
10-24-2011, 16:54
It's not just your department brother it's everywhere. Leadership is hard to find. Too many guys are just out for themselves.

As far as being politically correct in roll call, I'm with ya on that one! I have about 7 years with my agency (4 civilian, 3 Police) and I refuse to keep my opinion to myself behind closed doors. I try very hard to be as professional as possible, but it doesn't always work out that way. I'm 4th generation police with the same department, I grew up around it, heard the stories that made it sound great and now it's turning to **** and I refuse to sit idly by while it continues to get worse. I may only make a small difference, but I will sleep at night knowing I did what I could.

Quote I found on political correctness:

"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

-Chet Beates

NoGlamour229
10-24-2011, 17:11
The following clip from Reno 911 may help express how you feel. Please make sure no kids, bosses, or anybody that may be offended by "bad words" is around to hear. ENJOY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi5NDFyIl6s&feature=share

COBRA90GT
10-24-2011, 18:46
ateamer - Agreed. It certainly isn't pleasant, just don't let it affect YOU as much as possible so you don't turn sour towards your loved ones/family/friends, etc.

Remember, many of those same (well not the EXACT same, but you know what I mean) gripes can be found among the rest of the world's jobs and workforce as well though. It's all relative I suppose... :)


Bunch of Lumberghs or Captain Sobels in charge I tell ya. LOL

PinkoCommie
10-24-2011, 20:02
Keep in mind, it's called "work" for a reason. It is not a vacation...

lawman800
10-24-2011, 20:22
You don't get paid to have fun or even enjoy work. You get paid to perform the service. Whether or not you like the work is up to you to do the due diligence to match your proclivity to the vocation and also the match to the organization.

Your happiness at work isimportant but ranks below the main priority of the mission and your job. You really hate the job, you quit or do a bad job and get fired, there will be tons of other people who will line up to do the job.

Cold but it's the real world.

ArmaGlock
10-24-2011, 20:56
You don't get paid to have fun or even enjoy work. You get paid to perform the service. Whether or not you like the work is up to you to do the due diligence to match your proclivity to the vocation and also the match to the organization.

Your happiness at work isimportant but ranks below the main priority of the mission and your job. You really hate the job, you quit or do a bad job and get fired, there will be tons of other people who will line up to do the job.

Cold but it's the real world.

I don't think it's the job itself that most officers are frustrated with or hate, it's the BS they have to put up with from the department/admin.

The bend over and take it approach isn't easy for everyone.....

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ateamer
10-25-2011, 11:54
You don't get paid to have fun or even enjoy work. You get paid to perform the service. Whether or not you like the work is up to you to do the due diligence to match your proclivity to the vocation and also the match to the organization.

Your happiness at work isimportant but ranks below the main priority of the mission and your job. You really hate the job, you quit or do a bad job and get fired, there will be tons of other people who will line up to do the job.

Cold but it's the real world.
That is true, but I expect that the leadership will give us, or allow us to purchase, the best equipment to get the job done, and put the best people in charge so that the best decisions get made and that action gets taken quickly and effectively.

lawman800
10-25-2011, 12:59
I don't think it's the job itself that most officers are frustrated with or hate, it's the BS they have to put up with from the department/admin.

The bend over and take it approach isn't easy for everyone

That hurt. I know. We love the job. But it's hard to do with the environment and non-support. So we are not really doing our jobs and we are holding ourselves back from doing what we want to do or what we know we should do, which causes the hate.

That is true, but I expect that the leadership will give us, or allow us to purchase, the best equipment to get the job done, and put the best people in charge so that the best decisions get made and that action gets taken quickly and effectively.

Agreed. That's a different issue though. That's bad management. But again, seeing what I have seen, irt can come all the way from the elected officials to the mayor to the city manager to the chief then down to the ranks.

Partisan politics can play a huge part in how management has to do business.