Kansas Highway Patrol use of H&K MP5 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Andy W
10-24-2011, 00:08
Does anyone here know if the Kansas Highway Patrol issues full auto MP5s, specifically to their SWAT officers? The reason I ask is because I heard a story at a gun shop on Saturday involving the KHP and a recent shooting involving a full auto MP5. However, I have no idea how much, if any of the story is true so I will refrain from posting it publically so as not to spread misinformation. If you want the details as I heard them, send me a PM.

DaBigBR
10-24-2011, 09:25
Since you heard it at a gunshop, I would that somewhere between none and zero percent is true.

No idea about KHP, though...

Hack
10-24-2011, 09:30
Why not just give them a call, or look on their web site. KLETC may also be a good source of information.

nikerret
10-24-2011, 11:59
Yes, they utilize full-auto MP5's as well as other weapons.

I'm referring to their SRT teams.

Their Troopers get a wicked AR package complete with a ton of PMags and a badass raid vest to keep them all in. They are configured in semi-auto only.

Andy W
10-24-2011, 16:55
Screw it, I'm gonna post the story.

This part I have verified. Back in September, there was a Fort Riley soldier who was court martialed for rape of a child. He disapearred after the first day of the trial and was convicted in absentia. At some point, his car was found outside a hotel in Abilene, KS. Law enforcement quickly converged on the hotel and the suspect barricaded himself in his room. A standoff ensued, lasting several hours. A SWAT team ( I assume it was KHP SRT)finally forced entry into the room. The suspect "resisted" and was killed.

The following was what I heard at the gun shop and I have no idea how much, if any truth there is to this. Allegedly, a full auto MP5 was deployed against the fugitive. When the SWAT team burst into the toom, an officer allegedly dumped an entire magazine out of his MP5, striking the suspect some 27 times. We know the suspect was killed. However, what I do not know was whether 1.) he was shot 27 times 2.) the weapon was an MP5 and 3.) said MP5 was set on full auto.

A couple of things about this. One, I'd always heard that, even if police are equipped with select fire weapons, they never actually set them to full auto because there is no point. You only lose accuracy and increase the chances of hitting an innocent person. I've seen videos of the MP5 firing and it doesn't cycle all that fast compared to, for instance, a G18 or Micro-Uzi; both of which are capable of unloading an entire magazine in well under a second. However, with an MP5 It seems like it would be hard to dump an entire magazine unless you meant to. I'll leave it at that.

Link:http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/AWOL-soldier-killed-in-Abilene-hotel-standoff/VEaAk7swykCefrynjfG41w.cspx?rss=1802

Fallout
10-24-2011, 19:17
A couple of things about this. One, I'd always heard that, even if police are equipped with select fire weapons, they never actually set them to full auto because there is no point. You only lose accuracy and increase the chances of hitting an innocent person. I've seen videos of the MP5 firing and it doesn't cycle all that fast compared to, for instance, a G18 or Micro-Uzi; both of which are capable of unloading an entire magazine in well under a second. However, with an MP5 It seems like it would be hard to dump an entire magazine unless you meant to. I'll leave it at that.

Link:http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/AWOL-soldier-killed-in-Abilene-hotel-standoff/VEaAk7swykCefrynjfG41w.cspx?rss=1802

Just because you have heard that doesnt mean that it is true. At my agency we train and deploy full auto weapons to certain officers. These officers qualify using a full auto qualification course.

The myth that Police dont use full auto (I am assuming because people think of full autos being used only for suppressive fire like you see in the movies) is false. Alot of agencies dont use them for the simple fact that every round must be accounted for, alot however do for certain applications.

The number of rounds dumped into the bad guy is a moot point. whther it is 1 round or 50 rounds police are trained to stop the threat. If he zipped the guy with a full mag of 9mm I am sure there was a reason for it.

trdvet
10-24-2011, 19:32
I'm issued a HK mp5 that is capable of single, double and full auto fire. I'm required to qualify with it and that includes full auto. Whether or not you use full auto out on the street is a judgement call by the individual using the weapon.

Wil Ufgood
10-24-2011, 19:41
The MP-5 is quite controllable in full auto. Man i miss my MP-5:crying:

BTW screw the bad guy, he got what he asked for!

Andy W
10-24-2011, 19:47
Just because you have heard that doesnt mean that it is true. At my agency we train and deploy full auto weapons to certain officers. These officers qualify using a full auto qualification course.

The myth that Police dont use full auto (I am assuming because people think of full autos being used only for suppressive fire like you see in the movies) is false. Alot of agencies dont use them for the simple fact that every round must be accounted for, alot however do for certain applications.

The number of rounds dumped into the bad guy is a moot point. whther it is 1 round or 50 rounds police are trained to stop the threat. If he zipped the guy with a full mag of 9mm I am sure there was a reason for it.

I agree. This very well could be little more than gun shop BS for all I know. I had no idea there was such a thing as a full auto qualification course. Very interesting. I hadn't ever really thought of it. By the way, it really doesn't bother me if he sprayed a whole mag of 9mm into the POS. He was a convicted rapist who had nothing to lose. Sounds like he was bound and determined to go down fighting. I'm sure the officers did what they had to do.

However, I could see the media having a field day with a story like this if it got out. Just imagine all the stories about trigger happy redneck cops bursting in and spraying the room with deadly fully automatic assault weapons, never even giving the suspect a chance to surrender.

bug
10-24-2011, 19:52
Screw it, I'm gonna post the story.

This part I have verified. Back in September, there was a Fort Riley soldier who was court martialed for rape of a child. He disapearred after the first day of the trial and was convicted in absentia. At some point, his car was found outside a hotel in Abilene, KS. Law enforcement quickly converged on the hotel and the suspect barricaded himself in his room. A standoff ensued, lasting several hours. A SWAT team ( I assume it was KHP SRT)finally forced entry into the room. The suspect "resisted" and was killed.

The following was what I heard at the gun shop and I have no idea how much, if any truth there is to this. Allegedly, a full auto MP5 was deployed against the fugitive. When the SWAT team burst into the toom, an officer allegedly dumped an entire magazine out of his MP5, striking the suspect some 27 times. We know the suspect was killed. However, what I do not know was whether 1.) he was shot 27 times 2.) the weapon was an MP5 and 3.) said MP5 was set on full auto.

A couple of things about this. One, I'd always heard that, even if police are equipped with select fire weapons, they never actually set them to full auto because there is no point. You only lose accuracy and increase the chances of hitting an innocent person. I've seen videos of the MP5 firing and it doesn't cycle all that fast compared to, for instance, a G18 or Micro-Uzi; both of which are capable of unloading an entire magazine in well under a second. However, with an MP5 It seems like it would be hard to dump an entire magazine unless you meant to. I'll leave it at that.

Link:http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/AWOL-soldier-killed-in-Abilene-hotel-standoff/VEaAk7swykCefrynjfG41w.cspx?rss=1802

I fire a G18 on a regular basis and I can tell you that while the cyclic rate is awesome it takes longer than 1 second to empty a 33 round mag.
edit:
Yep just checked have a video of me shooting it on my phone takes about 2-3 sec. :supergrin:

And it is way more controllable than people seem to think

Andy W
10-24-2011, 20:11
I fire a G18 on a regular basis and I can tell you that while the cyclic rate is awesome it takes longer than 1 second to empty a 33 round mag.
edit:
Yep just checked have a video of me shooting it on my phone takes about 2-3 sec. :supergrin:

And it is way more controllable than people seem to think

Well ****, I didn't know that. :wavey: My point was that, with an MP5, it would be harder to hold down the trigger a little longer than you anticipated (as might happen if you're trying to prevent an armed suspect from killing you) and dump the entire magazine.

denn1911
10-24-2011, 20:29
[/QUOTE]My point was that, with an MP5, it would be harder to hold down the trigger a little longer than you anticipated (as might happen if you're trying to prevent an armed suspect from killing you) and dump the entire magazine.[/QUOTE]

^^
I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to get across to us. Please clarify.

Andy W
10-24-2011, 22:08
My point was that, with an MP5, it would be harder to hold down the trigger a little longer than you anticipated (as might happen if you're trying to prevent an armed suspect from killing you) and dump the entire magazine.[/QUOTE]

^^
I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to get across to us. Please clarify.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I'm tired. The point was that, if the suspect had an MP5 unloaded into him, it had to have been intentional. I had a friend say that maybe the officer, in the heat of the moment, accidentally flipped the selector switch to full auto when he only meant to flip it to semi-auto and, only expecting one shot to come out, the officer pulled the trigger and dumped the entire magazine before he was able to react and take his finger off the trigger. Or maybe he'd only intended to fire a short 3-5 round burst but, again in the heat of the moment, he held the trigger down longer than he'd planned and ended up firing a lot longer burst than he anticipated. While I could see something like that happening on something with a higher cyclic rate, it would probably be hard to do on an MP5. The MP5 isn't something with which you can zip off 20-30 rounds in a second.

It was just a tangent I went off on. Really not important for this thread.

blueiron
10-25-2011, 01:53
Whether the bad guy was shot once or thirty times is immaterial in criminal court. The shoot was either good or it was bad.

it can be argued in civil court that multiple shots were excessive force, but it all depends on the witnesses, the evidence, and the forensic autopsy findings.

Gun shop commandoes love to pretend they are lawyers and try to spin one word or point to meet their agenda. The argument of the "tricked out" black gun is one of their favorite points. It makes no difference if the bad guy was justifiably shot with a .58 caliber Hawken muzzleloader or a civilian AK. The shoot was either good or it wasn't. My State does not have a preferred weapon of self defense.

unit 900
10-25-2011, 09:29
27 is clearly a popular number. Here's one from the Baltimore region's past that had the magic 27 from an MP5 as well. The SWAT officers went in through a window via a ladder.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bal-pal17,0,1513108.story