Texas - Okay to lie to police about possessing a weapon [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RussP
10-24-2011, 10:26
The following was posted in Carry Issues.In Texas you will be asked if you have a weapon in your vehicle. You must answer honestly...IncorrectWould you mind explaining why that is incorrect, citing relevant code?If the Police in Texas ask whether you have a weapon in your car and you untruthfully answer "no", you have not committed a crime.

Some people will remind us that the Gov code states that we are required to show our CHL when the Police ask for ID, but there is no longer any penalty for violating that rule and the rule says nothing about other weapons.Broad generalizations there that could get someone in trouble.

If you hold a Texas CHL. You have an official encounter with law enforcement. The officer asks if you have any weapons. You answer, untruthfully, no. Next the officer asks for your ID. The law says you must present your CHL at that time, Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 9.17(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1999.
Amended by:
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 1146, Sec. 12A.02, eff. September 1, 2009.correct?

You say, "...but there is no longer any penalty for violating that rule and the rule says..." Isn't that actually a law? So failure to notify is actually a violation of Texas law, correct?

So, as long as there is no penalty for doing so, you're saying, and correct me if I am wrong, it is fine and good to violate the laws of Texas?

No, that's not a law. It is an administrative rule in the Government code. The penalty was removed by the legislature in 2009 because for 2 years prior to that time non-CHL holders were also allowed to carry concealed handguns in their vehicles. It was absurd that CHL holders had to notify Police and non-CHL holders did not.No, this is not correct. In some states, such as AZ, you are are required to answer truthfully if an Officer asks whether you have a weapon while being detained but this is not the case in Texas.

As I said in my above post it was my mistake to correct someone on the internet.Is bithabus correct? Can someone, after being asked if they have any weapons, lie to the police about possessing a weapon?

rock_jock
10-24-2011, 10:34
When I lived in Texas and had a CHL, my understanding was that you only needed to show your CHL if you were concealing a weapon on your person, which the license covers. If a hunter who also has a CHL is stopped and has a firearm in the vehicle, but not on their person, how is the requirement applicable?

Hack
10-24-2011, 10:36
Why the need for concealing the information? Here in Kansas they can find out on the state data base for licenses anyway. Can't they do the same down there?

G_34
10-24-2011, 10:44
Doesn't law state that you have to be wearing one of these on your left breast if you are carrying concealed
http://www.concealmentconcepts.com/K18C252G.gif

Gangrel
10-24-2011, 10:45
They don't have to tell us anymore. Most do anyway, though.

Javelin
10-24-2011, 10:52
Never talk to the police. :devilish:

Hack
10-24-2011, 10:57
Never talk to the police. :devilish:

:popcorn:

RussP
10-24-2011, 10:59
C'mon guys. Serious question. I need your help here. Save the cute **** for someone else, please.

Thanks

RussP
10-24-2011, 11:00
They don't have to tell us anymore. Most do anyway, though.But, can they lie? Can they say, "No," even when they are in possession?

Gangrel
10-24-2011, 12:52
I believe it is just an administrative violation which the officer would have to take up with the licensing agency.

Luli
10-24-2011, 12:56
So, if i was an officer in Texas and they could lie to me about weapons, would that open up more of a search ruling due to officer safety? I.e. more terry frisk since I could not trust someone (not that you can anyway,) to really let me know about a weapon?

DaBigBR
10-24-2011, 14:32
But, can they lie? Can they say, "No," even when they are in possession?

I guess I don't see where they would catch a charge for it, but I'm not in Texas. If I ask somebody if they have dope on them and they say no, and then I find out that they do, they get charged for possessing the dope. If I ask somebody if they're drunk and they say no, and I find out that they are, they get charged for being drunk (in public / behind the wheel / etc).

Sharky7
10-24-2011, 15:01
Technically, you are afforded the right to remain silent, but not the right to lie during criminal investigations.

In my state it would depend on the type of stop (detained or not) and what the officer was investigating. If you provide false or misleading information to the police during a criminal investigation, you can be charged with Obstructing Justice. In Illinois this is the law;
A person obstructs justice when, with intent to prevent the apprehension or obstruct the prosecution or defense of any person, he knowingly commits any of the following acts:
(a) Destroys, alters, conceals or disguises physical evidence, plants false evidence, furnishes false information; or
(b) Induces a witness having knowledge material to the subject at issue to leave the State or conceal himself; or
(c) Possessing knowledge material to the subject at issue, he leaves the State or conceals himself.

I can't tell you Texas for sure.....It's not a common charge around here, because like DaBigBR said you normally have other charges anyways and their lies are just used in aggravation at court. But, I have charged it in the past and will continue to do so when necessary.

rhikdavis
10-24-2011, 15:24
If I ask somebody if they have dope on them and they say no, and then I find out that they do, they get charged for possessing the dope.

What if they say yes they have dope in their possession?

Mattz
10-24-2011, 15:37
I don't see how it could be a violation of the law. Texas doesn't have a "obstruction" per say, like other states. There is an interference statue, but I rarely see it used.

Mattz
10-24-2011, 15:42
So, if i was an officer in Texas and they could lie to me about weapons, would that open up more of a search ruling due to officer safety? I.e. more terry frisk since I could not trust someone (not that you can anyway,) to really let me know about a weapon?

No. You'd have to be able to articulate facts or circumstances on the given situation as to why you performed a terry frisk.

Sharky7
10-24-2011, 15:43
What if they say yes they have dope in their possession?

Going to find it either way...but honesty goes a long way. Lot more options when people are honest, like cite and go's tickets, lesser offenses, or drug court options, etc

michael e
10-24-2011, 15:47
When I took the class, we are told to show it but the penitly for not showing is now gone. They can see you have a CHL when they run your DL. I have been pulled over 1 time since getting my CHL, showed the cop both IDs . Asked where gun was, he told me don't go for mine he wont go for his. Said deal, talked to me for 2 mins tops and said slow down, have a nice day. If he had went to his car , ran it and then seen I had CHL he would probebly have given me a ticket and asked why I didn't notify him.

trdvet
10-24-2011, 16:07
If you have a CHL you must notify but if you don't then there is no penalty for not doing so. Non CHL holders do not have to notify. Weird stuff.

Glockdude1
10-24-2011, 16:22
Why the need for concealing the information? Here in Kansas they can find out on the state data base for licenses anyway. Can't they do the same down there?

In Texas a soon as they run your D/L number (not your license plate number), it comes up if you have a CHL (concealed handgun license) or not.

I seldom get pulled over, when I do, I always hand over both of my licenses, at the same time. Never a problem.

:cool:

nohocop
10-24-2011, 17:39
Back the badge. Sir yes sir.

"Officer, for your safety and mine, I have a CHL and am legally possessing a firearm. It is located [disclose location of firearm.]. Please let me know what you would like me to do next, sir."

TXCOPPER
10-25-2011, 08:48
Removed by poster

TXCOPPER
10-25-2011, 09:03
Removed by poster

Morris
10-25-2011, 11:17
So, while the violation of not telling is a criminal violation, the penalty is a civil or administrative action.

Is that what I am reading?

RussP
10-25-2011, 11:44
Actually, the penalties were removed by the legislature in 2009.

TXCOPPER
10-25-2011, 12:21
You're right, no penalties under that section after 2009. Only suspension and revocation under earlier subsections. Sorry for the confusion.


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Cav
10-25-2011, 19:04
Texas is having issues with handgun laws. Every two years or so the law changes.

Texas was good at passing CHL laws. But then an issue of transporting weapons became an issue, so they made it where anyone can have a handgun in a vehicle (or going to or from), and further moved to cover even at work places. But they made it a crime for a CHL and not a crime for non CHL to fail to I.D., so they went back and changed it to no charges.

The current way is dumb. It lets criminals get away with to much. When the changed about 2-3 years ago we stopped two cars from another city with 8 people and 6 guns in the vehicle. They came to our town for a shooting. We made two arrests that were weak in the courts eyes. We let the guy with the rifle go, and others with pistols under the seats. We charged those that had the weapons on them only. It was sad.

Law needs to cover more than waiting for a crime to happen.

If I ask if you have a gun and you say 'no' and then I see a gun, I can only think that the gun is stolen and you plan to shoot me with it. Why else would you lie? I will take the action needed to go home, and I hope the video turns out well for Youtube, even better hope the person gets the other angle for Youtube, as that seems to be par for those that like to cause problems.

packsaddle
10-25-2011, 20:22
you don't have to tell us you have a CHL because we will know as soon as we run your DL so you're not keeping anything secret from us (but if you want to feel all secret-y or ninja-y by not telling us then go for it).

as far as notifying us you have a weapon, it depends on the circumstances.

if you're being questioned about some type of criminal activity (i.e. odor of green leafy substance, shooting at road signs on a county road, flashing a weapon during a road rage incident, etc.) and you lie about having a weapon, and we find a weapon in your possession when we search your vehicle, then you will likely be charged with whatever offense you are suspected of AND you will be charged with 37.08 (false report to a peace officer) for lying to us.

and then you can join all the other lying ninjas in jail.

SCSU74
10-26-2011, 15:32
Most people I come across tell me if they are armed. If they have a chl it also pops up when their id is ran. I don't think they have to tell us if they are unarmed and a chl holder, but I think they have to if they are armed?


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