10mm bear load, fmj or hard cast? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : 10mm bear load, fmj or hard cast?


orangeride
10-24-2011, 15:30
Ive got a stock g20, I'm looking to load up some woods protection ammo. Is there an fmj that will do the job of a hard cast, or am I stuck swapping my barrel out?

TreyG-20
10-24-2011, 15:34
Does it have to be either? Hornaday 200gr Xtp will get the job done

OhioGlockMan
10-24-2011, 16:29
The sheriffs deputies at the exotic animal farm here in Ohio took out grizzly and black bears and 300 lb tigers all with their sidearms, (this is what the head county sheriff said in the press interview, he said they shot them all using just their sidearms) and I assume they had 40's or 45, and regular defensive ammo, so yeah I would think a full power 10mm with a 200 grain hornady xtp would be just right.

Meathead9
10-24-2011, 18:16
200gr WFNGC Hands Down. I go with the "two holes are better than one" philosophy when it comes to the 10mm vs Dangerous Game. Penetration seems more important than hopeful expansion in that situation. The XTP is an awesome bullet, but I would rather pack 200gr WFNGC's @ 1350fps.

orangeride
10-24-2011, 19:26
Is the fmj prone to shedding it's jacket? I shoot 320gr hard cast in my 44, but I'm trying to slim down. I was hoping to leave the oem. Barrel, but looks like I'm Gona have to swap it out.

Meathead9
10-24-2011, 21:00
Its not recommended, but I ran 50rds of DT 200gr WFNGC through my G20SF before I built my Longslide. I didn't have any leading issues, and the stock gun handled it just fine. Unless you're planning on shooting a ton of lead ammo through it before cleaning, I wouldn't say you absolutely need an aftermarket barrel.

The FMJ's should hold up just fine too, but I like the wide nose bullets. They have way more "thump" on impact, and from what I've read, they run through an animal like a cookie cutter.

orangeride
10-24-2011, 22:27
I think your right on a couple of points, I few mags of hard cast won't hurt anything. Next, the wide flat nose on the hard cast seem to hit hard. I think double tap makes a fmj with a wide flat nose. How do you think a factory barrel shoots a hard cast accuracy wise?

Meathead9
10-24-2011, 22:39
They shot as accurate as any other round I put through it when it was stock.

robert91922
10-25-2011, 02:06
I loaded few hundred rounds w. 200gr Hornady FMJ FP @ 1250fps av.


I don't like lead bullets due to a lot of smoke and leading issues.
These bullets are flat pointed so I expect the same penetration and cutting effect as with WFGNC's @ same speed.

Am I right or wrong? :dunno:

Jitterbug
10-25-2011, 07:11
Robert, with the Hornady the jacket is more prone to deform when the bullet hits bone, causing the bullet to deflect rather the drill straight through and the Meplat is less diameter, which means a smaller wound channel, when compared to a hard cast like a Beartooth Bullet WFNGC.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

Before I discovered the BTB and was able to work up a load, I carried the same Hornady 200 gr. FMJ/FN and 200 gr. XTP's in the Central Rockies for many years.

I don't think the Hornady's are a poor choice, but the BTB is probably better when it comes to drilling through bones. If for some reason my gun wouldn't handle the BTB and/or I was restricted to a 10mm semi, I'd carry the above.

orangeride
10-25-2011, 08:07
Thanks for the info. From what ive learned with my 44, the hard cast are popular because you can drive them a little faster. Lead bullets conform easier to the rifling and take less pressure to drive down the barrel.

Meathead9
10-25-2011, 08:41
I don't like lead bullets due to a lot of smoke and leading issues.


The Gas Check of the 200gr WFNGC almost make this a non-issue. I'll bet my 200gr WFNGC load smokes less than some FMJ loads, due to the exposed lead at the base of most FMJ's.

Jitterbug
10-25-2011, 08:45
Ditto on the gas check, I've never noticed any obnoxious amounts of smoke with the BTB WFNGC.

My 800x load is clean.

orangeride
10-25-2011, 12:58
And how about the "gas check" bullet run through the stock. Barrel. I'm not looking to run hundreds of rounds down range.(I'll load fmj's for that) But if I'm up fishing and I see some critter, I don't want to feel like I'm Gona lead up the barrel in a mag or two. I'm planning on hand loading all my play ammo, then pick up a box or two of double tap or buffalo bore for woods carry. I don't plan on shooting tons of maxed out stuff. I just want to be able to when I want.

Jitterbug
10-25-2011, 13:36
I'm running a 1911, so I can't help ya with that question Orange.

DWARREN123
10-25-2011, 14:11
Another vote for Hornady 200gr HP/XTP (10mm) run hard to make sure.:supergrin:

Meathead9
10-25-2011, 14:56
And how about the "gas check" bullet run through the stock. Barrel. I'm not looking to run hundreds of rounds down range.(I'll load fmj's for that) But if I'm up fishing and I see some critter, I don't want to feel like I'm Gona lead up the barrel in a mag or two. I'm planning on hand loading all my play ammo, then pick up a box or two of double tap or buffalo bore for woods carry. I don't plan on shooting tons of maxed out stuff. I just want to be able to when I want.

Like I said above, I have run 50rds of DT 200gr WFNGC (Wide Flat Nose Gas Checked) through my stock G20SF with absolutely no issues. It was accurate, not smokey, and didn't lead up my barrel. All barrels are different, but for your application I think it's the perfect bullet.

TDC20
10-25-2011, 23:26
The problem with jacketed bullets generally is that they use a soft lead alloy in them. This allows them to deform when striking bone and deflect, and if the bullet tumbles it can break apart. That never happens with good hard cast bullets. They stay together and don't deform much when they strike bone, so the penetration is more reliable and true than with FMJ's. Hardcast bullets are superior to FMJ's for those reasons, IMO.

I remember seeing a Hickock45 video where he had trouble with heavy hard cast bullets stabilizing in the factory Glock barrel, but the same loads shot good through an aftermarket barrel. Don't remember now if it was 200gr. or 230gr bullets, but I think it was the 230gr.

Meathead9
10-25-2011, 23:51
Yeah I remember that video, the 230gr WFNGC's keyholed when he shot them through his stock barrel. The 200 grainers don't have that issue though. I believe it was due to the bullet length not having time to stabilize in a 4.6" barrel. You can drive a 200gr much faster, and to a higher energy level than a 230gr anyway.

Taterhead
10-26-2011, 16:00
Hickock 45 was having stability issues only with the 230s. 200 grainers are fine in a Glock barrel.

My vote is for bear protection is a 33 caliber magnum rifle. If I only have my G20 then it is definitely going to be a WFNGC hardcast. They hit hard, and can be loaded faster than an XTP. They have a lot of weight out front so less prone to tumbling. Lots of penetration. Mine went through 7 water filled gallon milk jugs. Might have gone through 8, but exited out the back corner of the 7th.

The hard alloy plus gas checks have caused no leading in my Glock barrel.

Taterhead
10-26-2011, 16:02
Oops. Double tapped submit. Deleted.

TreyG-20
10-26-2011, 16:08
Hickock 45 was having stability issues only with the 230s. 200 grainers are fine in a Glock barrel.

My vote is for bear protection is a 33 caliber magnum rifle. If I only have my G20 then it is definitely going to be a WFNGC hardcast. They hit hard, and can be loaded faster than an XTP. They have a lot of weight out front so less prone to tumbling. Lots of penetration. Mine went through 7 water filled gallon milk jugs. Might have gone through 8, but exited out the back corner of the 7th.

The hard alloy plus gas checks have caused no leading in my Glock barrel.
When you say they can be loaded faster, you mean when you are reloading?

Taterhead
10-26-2011, 17:02
When you say they can be loaded faster, you mean when you are reloading?

Sorry. Good question. I mean that they can be loaded to higher velocities than an XTP. The only subtlety about loading them is that they like a wider bell of the case mouth for seating. Otherwise, they hand load no differently.

TreyG-20
10-27-2011, 07:06
Sorry. Good question. I mean that they can be loaded to higher velocities than an XTP. The only subtlety about loading them is that they like a wider bell of the case mouth for seating. Otherwise, they hand load no differently.
Ok thanks i thought thats what you meant but was just a tad confused.

.338SAKO
10-30-2011, 21:12
Ok thanks i thought thats what you meant but was just a tad confused.

Thanks for all of the info, I am in the same boat. Do you guys have any experience with Missouri bullets in 200 gr.hard cast fn w/ gas check? I run a 6"lw barrel w/22lb. spring. Thanks in advance.

Taterhead
10-30-2011, 21:41
Thanks for all of the info, I am in the same boat. Do you guys have any experience with Missouri bullets in 200 gr.hard cast fn w/ gas check? I run a 6"lw barrel w/22lb. spring. Thanks in advance.

I haven't. The 200 grain WFNGC hard cast bullets from Double Tap have worked well for me.

Jitterbug
10-31-2011, 07:14
For best quality I recommend the Beartooth 200 gr. WFNGC, for consistency and better quality material, last thing I want is a hard cast that shatters or comes apart.

For plinking I'm going through a 500 box of the Missouri Bullet 180 gr. TCFP, loaded over 8.8-9.2 grains of AA7 right now in mixed cases with a CCI-300 and getting good results.

Nice tight groups even if it does shoot a little low and right in my gun with fixed sights. I might try increasing the velocity a bit to see if this will fix that. Also considering Unique.

I just saw the OP asked for a bear load... for me it's Beartooth all the way. I carried that load just yesterday in the bear and lion woods.

robert91922
11-03-2011, 06:34
Robert, with the Hornady the jacket is more prone to deform when the bullet hits bone, causing the bullet to deflect rather the drill straight through and the Meplat is less diameter, which means a smaller wound channel, when compared to a hard cast like a Beartooth Bullet WFNGC.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

Before I discovered the BTB and was able to work up a load, I carried the same Hornady 200 gr. FMJ/FN and 200 gr. XTP's in the Central Rockies for many years.

I don't think the Hornady's are a poor choice, but the BTB is probably better when it comes to drilling through bones. If for some reason my gun wouldn't handle the BTB and/or I was restricted to a 10mm semi, I'd carry the above.
Thanks for info, today I have sent a question to BTB Company if would they send some bullets overseas to Europe and how much for shipping costs. At least I tried.

nickE10mm
11-03-2011, 07:00
Ive got a stock g20, I'm looking to load up some woods protection ammo. Is there an fmj that will do the job of a hard cast, or am I stuck swapping my barrel out?

I would go with the DT or BTB hardcast load, preferably the 200gr weight. A few of these won't cause any troubles in the stock barrel and the reliability of the barrel will be great since you could potentially need to defend yourself from an animal with it.

Also, the issue about tumbling or stabilization are basically moot unless you will be hunting, as animal defense would occur at very close range, anyways. (FWIW, I haven't had any issues like that with my stock Glock barrel...)

I think a 200gr WFNGC hardcast bullet at 1300+ fps will take care of ANY close range issue you might have and will be safe and reliable in the stock barrel.

Just my .02