CHL holder gets 70 years [Archive] - Glock Talk

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dcc12
10-27-2011, 20:42
Here is the link to the conclusion of a local shooting.
Long story short Road rage type incident.

Both men armed one CHL holder one non CHL but because it is legal to have gun in car in Texas the permit status not important to this case. But I will refer to CHL and nonCHL for ID purposes only.

Many wittness observe shooting, many different views and stories. but reports from local news:
Both men may or may not have been driving agressively.
Pickup and car stop at intersection. Nonpermit holder exits car with gun in hand exchanges words with man in pickup. Non CHL Man gets back in car. CHL holder backs pickup may or may not have sat there for a few min. but puts pickup in reverse and pushes car a considerable distance back down street onto median disabling car.
Both men exit CHL holder shoots Glock23 and hits with head shot. NonCHL dead.
CHL holder is indicted for murder by Taylor County Grand Jury. Goes to trial found guilty. 70 years.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/oct/26/christopher-north-given-70-years-prison-murder-aus/

madcitycop
10-27-2011, 20:44
sounds about right to me. Easily could have left the scene and called 911. Clearly no immediate threat.

DaneA
10-27-2011, 20:51
Well what did he expect to happen? Might have gotten away with it had he shot the nonCHL holder when he exited his car and approached him.

michael e
10-27-2011, 20:57
If we shot everyone that drove like a jack ass around me I would be the only one left on the road. If you have an out just take it. We have a side street around the corner from me, last sat morning we where on our way to breakfest and two guys got out about to fight. This seems to happen on this street at least 1x a week. I have got to where I wont take this street unless I have to, people can't just walk away from something stuiped anymore

dcc12
10-27-2011, 20:59
Thats the way it appears here the threat had left the building sorta speak

RenegadeGlocker
10-27-2011, 21:03
Would have been a clean shoot if he clocked him as soon as he got out of the car with gun.

Either way, to less *******s I will ever encounter on the road. Win Win.

dcc12
10-27-2011, 21:08
To quote a Monty Python skit......Run away Run away
Cant remember what movie it is from but good advise it it gets you or keeps you out of a fight.

Bogey
10-27-2011, 21:17
To quote a Monty Python skit......Run away Run away
Cant remember what movie it is from but good advise it it gets you or keeps you out of a fight.

Holy Grail in case you had to know. :supergrin:

I agree with most written above. Seems to me his best shot at capping the guy and getting away with it was when the non CHL first approached.

Toorop
10-27-2011, 21:23
Once again we have an excellent example as to why having a permit/license to carry does not make someone a good person. It also shows that police are right to treat permit holders with distrust just as they do those without permit holders.

Hour13
10-27-2011, 21:34
Ass hats. I'm glad they convicted him, he had his moment for a "clean shoot" and missed it. Then he had an out, and chose instead to elevate the situation.

This is EXACTLY the kind of crap that can put the public on the wrong side of our struggle to preserve our rights. And a CHL holder? He took the class, he knows what's allowed, and what isn't.

If you are incapable controlling your anger, you have no business carrying a gun. Period.

mrsurfboard
10-27-2011, 22:09
Sounds like justice was served to me.

Warp
10-27-2011, 22:19
If we shot everyone that drove like a jack ass around me I would be the only one left on the road.

Now let's be fair. He did a lot more than drive like a jackass

. Nonpermit holder exits car with gun in hand exchanges words with man in pickup.

Surely you recognize that.




If OP's simplistic tale of events is accurate the penalty sounds reasonable.

Warp
10-27-2011, 22:20
Ass hats. I'm glad they convicted him, he had his moment for a "clean shoot" and missed it. Then he had an out, and chose instead to elevate the situation.

This is EXACTLY the kind of crap that can put the public on the wrong side of our struggle to preserve our rights. And a CHL holder? He took the class, he knows what's allowed, and what isn't.

If you are incapable controlling your anger, you have no business carrying a gun. Period.



True.

But it sure looks like he won't be carrying a gun anymore. Unfortunately somebody had to DIE before he was removed from society...fortunately the guy who was killed (may he rest in peace) showed that he can't control his anger all that well either

Hour13
10-27-2011, 22:53
True.

But it sure looks like he won't be carrying a gun anymore. Unfortunately somebody had to DIE before he was removed from society...fortunately the guy who was killed (may he rest in peace) showed that he can't control his anger all that well either

Ya, no pity here for the dead guy. Somebody pisses you off in traffic, and you step out of your car with a gun?? He got what he deserved. Hell, I'm amazed he made that far in life. And the shooter got what he was due as well.

What irks me, is that a CHL holder did this. Kinda crap that the left wingers just love. MOST of us respect the fact that the gun we carry is for defense, and NOT for retribution. And we try to present ourselves as responsible armed citizens.
:steamed:

Hour13
10-27-2011, 22:57
Yes, he should have shot him. But he should've done it when the guy was approaching, gun in had. Not after he got back into his car.

Difference between defense, and revenge.

DWARREN123
10-28-2011, 02:00
People need to ease up no matter if carrying or not. This was not good for either.

LongGoneDays
10-28-2011, 02:13
Well now there is 2 less jackasses on the road at least.

M1a65
10-28-2011, 02:18
Sounds like a win-win for society getting 2 DB's off the road. Does give CCL a bad name yet again thou...

Bruce M
10-28-2011, 05:23
For every "clean shooting," it seems like there is one (or more) where the lines between subject and victim are blurred. Sometimes there are no lines at all. Maybe we need an "affray with a gun" statute.

Warp
10-28-2011, 07:03
For every "clean shooting," it seems like there is one (or more) where the lines between subject and victim are blurred.

Media bias most likely

Master_Blaster1911
10-28-2011, 15:57
I don't know how many years it took, or how many CHLs issued, or how many totally justified gun defenses there have been...

This will be one of the best fodders to use against giving people a license to carry a weapon in public. Has the Brady Campaign made this front page on their web-page yet?

Idiots, both of them, and the killer got at least as much as he deserved.

TexasFats
10-28-2011, 16:26
One idiot went into the ground and another went to jail. But, it is a black eye for CHL once the Brady Bunch gets ahold of it.

AA#5
10-28-2011, 16:31
Sounds like a classic case of "Now that I have a CHL & a gun, I don't have to take crap from anybody."

Plus:

"Leave the scene? Why should I be a wimp? I'm a MAN & real men don't back down; they stay & fight."

AA#5
10-28-2011, 16:32
Well now there is 2 less jackasses on the road at least.

Don't worry. There are plenty more to take their place.

bithabus
10-28-2011, 16:41
Would have been a clean shoot if he clocked him as soon as he got out of the car with gun.


Yep. That's what should have happened.

Bruce M
10-28-2011, 17:01
Would have been a clean shoot if he clocked him as soon as he got out of the car with gun.

.

Yep. That's what should have happened.

I think if one or the other had the sense to go the other way/retreat that is what should have happened.



Media bias most likely Did not seem to be any media bias in this one that I could see, or in another thread regarding Mr. Gonzalez. And over the years in a few I have happened by, the lines seemed blurred at best long before the media got there.

SpringerTGO
10-28-2011, 17:39
I don't know why so many CHL holders think that because someone was issued a CHL they are some kind of special citizen. Most people in this country can pass the background check. I know a handful of bipolar people who have never been treated, so they could pass it as well.
For a great number of people, passing the background check only means they have never been caught..... or they haven't gone off yet.
We aren't special.

Deaf Smith
10-28-2011, 17:57
puts pickup in reverse and pushes car a considerable distance back down street onto median disabling car

That alone is assault with a deadly weapon (the pickup.)

How stupid. Well he has at the minimum 35 years to think about it.

But here is the weirdness of it. Another guy in Texas just pleaded guilty to breaking into a 70+ year old woman's home, strangling her, and hanging her dog with a rope. He gets life. I bet he gets out before the 'ex-CHL holder' does.

Deaf

PAGunner
10-28-2011, 18:20
I agree with the consensus here, CHL holder backed his truck into non-CHL holder's car, that act of agression IMO, may have gotten the non-CHL off the murder had he hit the CHL holder in the head first, after the whole truck pushing the car into the median thing, that was crossing the line.

Warp
10-28-2011, 19:14
I don't know how many years it took, or how many CHLs issued, or how many totally justified gun defenses there have been...

This will be one of the best fodders to use against giving people a license to carry a weapon in public. Has the Brady Campaign made this front page on their web-page yet?

Idiots, both of them, and the killer got at least as much as he deserved.

You know it's going to happen. You cannot have literally millions of licensed carriers out there every year without a few turds floating to the top. It happens. It is going to happen. Looking purely at the big picture it is totally acceptable. The positives so far outweigh the negatives it is laughably ridiculous when the brady campaign and their like point to the rare exception and try to use that to prove a point.

Warp
10-28-2011, 19:16
Did not seem to be any media bias in this one that I could see, or in another thread regarding Mr. Gonzalez. And over the years in a few I have happened by, the lines seemed blurred at best long before the media got there.

What I meant by media bias was their method for selecting what to tell you about. The post I quoted was making an observation about the frequency of different events.

HKLovingIT
10-28-2011, 21:01
Here is the link to the conclusion of a local shooting.
Long story short Road rage type incident.

Both men armed one CHL holder one non CHL but because it is legal to have gun in car in Texas the permit status not important to this case. But I will refer to CHL and nonCHL for ID purposes only.

Many wittness observe shooting, many different views and stories. but reports from local news:
Both men may or may not have been driving agressively.
Pickup and car stop at intersection. Nonpermit holder exits car with gun in hand exchanges words with man in pickup. Non CHL Man gets back in car. CHL holder backs pickup may or may not have sat there for a few min. but puts pickup in reverse and pushes car a considerable distance back down street onto median disabling car.
Both men exit CHL holder shoots Glock23 and hits with head shot. NonCHL dead.
CHL holder is indicted for murder by Taylor County Grand Jury. Goes to trial found guilty. 70 years.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/oct/26/christopher-north-given-70-years-prison-murder-aus/

If that's the way it went down it sounds like they engaged in mutual combat. Or at the point he started ramming the other guy's car with his pickup he was the aggressor. What a mess. One dead, one in prison. Was it worth going to prison because his feelings were hurt over some harsh words or someone 'disrespected' him? No it was not. :wow:

If he actually thought he was in a justified use of lethal force scenario the time for that might have been when the other man approached with a gun, but nothing is as cut and dried as that.

HKLovingIT
10-28-2011, 21:07
Yes, he should have shot him. But he should've done it when the guy was approaching, gun in had. Not after he got back into his car.

Difference between defense, and revenge.


Do you mean he should have shot him as a given, or do you mean that if pickup truck guy was ever justified in this incident to where he could have used lethal force, it was when the other driver approached with a gun?

Hour13
10-28-2011, 22:28
Do you mean he should have shot him as a given, or do you mean that if pickup truck guy was ever justified in this incident to where he could have used lethal force, it was when the other driver approached with a gun?

Both.

If a guy gets out of his car, and approaches me aggressively with a gun in his hand... I'm going for mine, and I won't be waving it as a truce flag. I'll shoot the bugger.

Now, if he turns around and heads back to his vehicle before I ventilate his happy ass, I consider the situation resolved. I'll breathe a sigh of relief, but watch him like a hawk till he drives off. While dialing 911, to get the cops on him.

HKLovingIT
10-28-2011, 22:46
Both.

If a guy gets out of his car, and approaches me aggressively with a gun in his hand... I'm going for mine, and I won't be waving it as a truce flag. I'll shoot the bugger.

Now, if he turns around and heads back to his vehicle before I ventilate his happy ass, I consider the situation resolved. I'll breathe a sigh of relief, but watch him like a hawk till he drives off. While dialing 911, to get the cops on him.


Nevermind. Just saw you were a Texan. :tongueout:

j/k.

Yeah it's complicated beneath the surface. Been doing some reading. One could say that the car driver was putting on a threat display and had no intention of actually shooting anyone and was just using the threat of violence to modify the behavior of pickup truck guy or to assert his dominance on the situation. Of course, if you are pickup truck guy, you aren't a mind reader. Neither was car guy, because obviously pickup truck guy was prepared to murder to get his point across. Dumb situation all around though.

Hour13
10-28-2011, 23:52
Nevermind. Just saw you were a Texan. :tongueout:

Damn right, lol. :supergrin: But this doesn't mean I'm some trigger happy John Wayne wannabe. But I most certainly will defend myself as I see needed.

One could say that the car driver was putting on a threat display and had no intention of actually shooting anyone and was just using the threat of violence to modify the behavior of pickup truck guy or to assert his dominance on the situation.

Two things here...

1) None of the above described actions are acceptable reasons to pull your weapon. A gun is NOT a tool for swaying an argument, or asserting dominance over somebody who cut you off in traffic. I was always taught that if you pull your gun, it's because you're in fear for your life, and are going to shoot.

2) I don't care what his intentions are. In said situation, I'm not going wait to find out if he "means it" or not. That's a great way to get dead. Approach me with a gun in hand, and you aren't LE, I will assume your plan is to use that gun to kill me. I will do all I can to drop you before you can do that.
------------
And again, this applies only up until the point the aggressor turned and walked away. At that point, you thank your lucky stars you didn't get killed, or be forced to kill somebody. You call the police, and have his ass thrown in jail.

This idiot not only has to live with having shot a man, but has to do it from behind bars. Idiot.

Like I stated before, if you can't control your anger, you have no business carrying a gun.

HKLovingIT
10-28-2011, 23:57
Damn right, lol. :supergrin: But this doesn't mean I'm some trigger happy John Wayne wannabe. But I most certainly will defend myself as I see needed.



Two things here...

1) None of the above described actions are acceptable reasons to pull your weapon. A gun is NOT a tool for swaying an argument, or asserting dominance over somebody who cut you off in traffic. I was always taught that if you pull your gun, it's because you're in fear for your life, and are going to shoot.

2) I don't care what his intentions are. In said situation, I'm not going wait to find out if he "means it" or not. That's a great way to get dead. Approach me with a gun in hand, and you aren't LE, I will assume your plan is to use that gun to kill me. I will do all I can to drop you before you can do that.
------------
And again, this applies only up until the point the aggressor turned and walked away. At that point, you thank your lucky stars you didn't get killed, or be forced to kill somebody. You call the police, and have his ass thrown in jail.

This idiot not only has to live with having shot a man, but has to do it from behind bars. Idiot.

Like I stated before, if you can't control your anger, you have no business carrying a gun.

I agree.

Just poking around beneath the surface of the incident at the psychological elements that might have been in play. It's amazing the dumb things people will do in the heat of the moment in order not to lose 'face.' No pun intended.

Like I said, you can't be a mind reader and an angry man approaching you with a firearm is a pretty big "Danger Will Robinson!" indicator.

Hour13
10-29-2011, 00:06
I agree.

Just poking around beneath the surface of the incident at the psychological elements that might have been in play. It's amazing the dumb things people will do in the heat of the moment in order not to lose 'face.'

Ya, this whole situation spiraled quickly into a royal cluster******. The human ego is a dangerous thing. These two guy should've been put in a ring to duke it out, instead this ended much, MUCH worse.

pretty big "Danger Will Robinson!" indicator.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Exactly.

glockman513
10-29-2011, 00:58
Sounds like a classic case of "Now that I have a CHL & a gun, I don't have to take crap from anybody."

Plus:

"Leave the scene? Why should I be a wimp? I'm a MAN & real men don't back down; they stay & fight."

When you leave the house for the day and strap a deadly weapon on your person, you give up the right to fight. You give up the right to be an asshat, and you give up the right to be confrontational. You give up the right to give the middle finger, and assume the responsibility of smiling and waving with all five fingers. Even if it means swallowing your pride.

Once you get a CCW license, your responsibility is now to de-escelate situations, and avoid them alltogether if possible. I'm not saying you have to let someone walk all over you, but if it means conceding a parking space and walking 8 more spots to the front door, then that's what you do. I guess Mr. North didn't pay attention to that part of the CCW class.

Walk tall, speak softly, and carry a big stick.

James Dean
10-29-2011, 08:57
Sounds like a win-win for society getting 2 DB's off the road. Does give CCL a bad name yet again thou...
I think so too. A guy who drives around with a gun who gets out of his car and threatens other drivers is dead. another who chases them down is in jail. its a win win

steveksux
10-29-2011, 10:09
I agree.

Just poking around beneath the surface of the incident at the psychological elements that might have been in play. It's amazing the dumb things people will do in the heat of the moment in order not to lose 'face.' No pun intended.
Well, at least he take some comfort in the fact he can say to himself "I did the manly thing" as his 300 lb cellmate pounds him in the butt night after night for the next 40 odd years.

Randy

steveksux
10-29-2011, 10:11
When you leave the house for the day and strap a deadly weapon on your person, you give up the right to fight. You give up the right to be an asshat, and you give up the right to be confrontational. You give up the right to give the middle finger, and assume the responsibility of smiling and waving with all five fingers. Even if it means swallowing your pride.

Once you get a CCW license, your responsibility is now to de-escelate situations, and avoid them alltogether if possible. I'm not saying you have to let someone walk all over you, but if it means conceding a parking space and walking 8 more spots to the front door, then that's what you do. I guess Mr. North didn't pay attention to that part of the CCW class.

Walk tall, speak softly, and carry a big stick.+1000. Deadly weapons are for defending life, not pride. It pays to know the difference.

Randy

Glenn E. Meyer
10-29-2011, 10:18
The thread title shouldn't be CHL gets 70 years but Idiot gets righteously sentenced.

ICARRY2
11-01-2011, 18:04
Moral of the story. Drive defensively and igonre idiots.

ICARRY2
11-01-2011, 18:06
Deadly weapons are for defending life, not pride. It pays to know the difference.

Randy

Excellent statement! :cool:

Lord
11-01-2011, 19:57
+CHL should have called 9-1-1 the second -CHL got out of car with gun... BUT what caused the road rage? Was +CHL driving recklessly and endangering others' lives? Did +CHL make threats etc? Lots to consider but it comes down to: Whether or not he started it or just ended up getting stupid, his very very first move should have been to contact LE. Report the goings on, and inform the dispatch operator, that now that he's seen a gun brandished, he is totally on the defensive. But no. Just like I've personally witnessed so many times, he decides to get stupid. When +CHL used his truck and pushed the other vehicle, a. he committed a crime (aggravated assault), furthered by b. jumping from his vehicle with a firearm in the absence of life threatening danger (deadly conduct). This actually gave -CHL the self defense position, and since +CHL was actively in the agression/deadly conduct process... have to agree with the murder charge/conviction. +CHL was nothing more than a legally licensed criminal.

To answer my own questions.. doesn't really matter. I agree with the jury that the "moment of passion" defense doesn't cover it. The guy even had a history of aggressive behavior, so it's no surprise that it caught up to him. To bad it was over another idiot's life.

Lord
11-01-2011, 20:05
Damn right, lol. :supergrin:
Two things here...

....Like I stated before, if you can't control your anger, you have no business carrying a gun.

+1 to your entire post

Alpine
11-01-2011, 20:48
When a jury in Abilene, Texas not only rejects his claim of self defense, but then decides he needs to go to prison for 70 years, that tells me it was a bad shoot.