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Folsom_Prison
10-30-2011, 00:38
This isn't a gun carry thread, it's a knife carry thread and this is the best forum I could think of for this question. At work I can't legally carry, so the best next thing is my pocket knife.

I don't have any spray currently so at work my main mode of defense is my knife. With my job I deal with pissed off homeowners regulary. It hasn't happened to me but guys I work with have had a gun pulled on them from a pissed off homeowner.

If all I had was a knife and had a gun pulled on me I'd try to leave, but I've had a few folks try to get physical with me without a gun. Thankfully Ive never had to act but it's crossed my mind..... What if I had to pull my knife.

Sooooo my rant amd question is, if you had to defend yourself with a knife what would you do?

JuneyBooney
10-30-2011, 00:54
I know lots of guys that carry knives in their boots when working on the street as a backup weapon. Knives are better than nothing. In some states a folding knife is best because there is no size limit on a folding knife in those states. Just check your state laws and be safe. :cool:

Beeman
10-30-2011, 01:01
I've got some concerns when it comes to stabbing/cutting someone. First it's the idea of getting someones blood all over me. I'd rather spray someone and try to escape VS stabbing/cutting and getting their blood on me. In all likelyhood you are going to have to stab them repeatedly, which means your hands are going to have their blood on them and be slippery. You're probably going to get cut too--not good to get cut, and have some nuts blood mixed with yours.

I can't carry a firearm at work. We also have loons that show up every once in a while who are high and want to fight or take items. One of these guys has said he has HIV and Hepatitis. I really don't want his fluids on me and would just as soon get away without touching that dude if at all possible. I'd be most likely to crack the dude over the head with something than start stabbing him, but I'd rather not touch most of the wackos that come in every once in a while.

Folsom_Prison
10-30-2011, 01:32
I know lots of guys that carry knives in their boots when working on the street as a backup weapon. Knives are better than nothing. In some states a folding knife is best because there is no size limit on a folding knife in those states. Just check your state laws and be safe. :cool:

I always carry a pocket knife. In kansas tue legal lenth is 3 and a half inches if Im correct.

rdpG19
10-30-2011, 06:05
I always carry my knife along with my Glock 19, if a BG approached me with a knife, I would pull out my Glock, the knife is just in case I cant get to my gun.

TurboRocket
10-30-2011, 06:18
Martial Blade Concepts (http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/) is your answer.

MBC encompasses empty hand, improvised weapons and knife stuff.

I'd rather have a Delica clipped to my pants pocket than a 8" boot knife. In my AO, I'd be hard-pressed to legally carry a large concealed fixed blade anyway.

cloudbuster
10-30-2011, 07:58
A knife is a deadly weapon exactly equal to a gun in terms of legal ramifications of using one in a fight. If you're justified in stabbing someone, you're justified in shooting them. If you are so justified, why would you want to have a knife as the tool at your disposal?

It requires you to get in very close, and if someone has already pulled a gun on you, this is near suicidal. If they've pulled a club, baseball bat, wrench or tire iron on you, they've got a much better weapon than you do and you're in still deep trouble. If they've pulled a knife on you, then you're entering into a dangerous and deadly fight you have maybe an even chance of winning and a lesser chance of escaping without serious injury. If they've done none of those things, then you're initiating deadly force and could end up in jail for a long time (yes, a sufficiently strong, violent unarmed man can be a deadly threat, but I don't want to go to court arguing that).

The situations where a knife gives you a clean and LEGAL advantage in a fight are pretty few.

Also, if you very frequently deal with pissed-off homeowners, you're probably in a pretty poor evidentiary position. I assume you're on their property, by yourself. Everything that happens is going to be their word (and witnesses such as family that are sympathetic to them) against yours. Not a position I'd want to be in.

Sounds like what you really need is some pepper spray. Good against dogs and aggressive homeowners who want to take a swing at you, and won't get you real friendly with someone in the prison shower. Probably misdemeanor at worst if it's decided you used poor judgment.

cloudbuster
10-30-2011, 08:07
Martial Blade Concepts (http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/) is your answer.

MBC encompasses empty hand, improvised weapons and knife stuff.

I'd rather have a Delica clipped to my pants pocket than a 8" boot knife. In my AO, I'd be hard-pressed to legally carry a large concealed fixed blade anyway.

LOL, that first picture on the Martial Blade Concepts website is effing hilarious. Guy with a folder going against someone with a big pipe wrench. They're making it look like "See how the skilled knife fighter countered this attacker" but, seriously, that guy with the wrench is wound up to cave in the knife wielder's skull with a back hand. Priceless. And that wrench guy, where's his left arm? The fantasy scenarios that knife training places work up are an endless source of amusement. They work great if the only people you ever fight are awkward, slow-witted, slow-moving buffoons.

Edmo01
10-30-2011, 08:34
One of the fastest ways to get cut is to get in a knife fight! Everyone gets cut, just some worse than others. If I'm the "homeowner guy" at my house and someone pulls a knife on me, I'm going to end it with a gun.

Beeman, I would guess at least one of your nightmares includes you being covered in someone else's blood! Sorry, couldn't resist...

Edmo

Lior
10-30-2011, 09:02
Good luck to any guys wishing to carry knives for self protection - praying that you'll never have to use one for that purpose.

From time to time I carry a multitool, usually off-person, but am far too squeamish about the idea of defending myself with a knife. I'd rather use a pair of Nikes if guns were a non-option, but that's just me.

cloudbuster
10-30-2011, 09:08
Good luck to any guys wishing to carry knives for self protection - praying that you'll never have to use one for that purpose.

From time to time I carry a multitool, usually off-person, but am far too squeamish about the idea of defending myself with a knife. I'd rather use a pair of Nikes if guns were a non-option, but that's just me.

*Tactical* Nikes, right?

steveksux
10-30-2011, 09:13
*Tactical* Nikes, right?The 2nd amendment doesn't allow citizens to carry "Strategic" Nikes. There was no such thing as Niklear weapons in the Founding Fathers day and age.

Randy

dcc12
10-30-2011, 09:29
I carry a Cold Steel 6" Voyager weak side. More for going to places that I can't carry CHL or to get someone off of my CHL if need. also have a Kimber Lifeact OC spray same reason

TurboRocket
10-30-2011, 09:29
LOL, that first picture on the Martial Blade Concepts website is effing hilarious. Guy with a folder going against someone with a big pipe wrench. They're making it look like "See how the skilled knife fighter countered this attacker" but, seriously, that guy with the wrench is wound up to cave in the knife wielder's skull with a back hand. Priceless. And that wrench guy, where's his left arm? The fantasy scenarios that knife training places work up are an endless source of amusement. They work great if the only people you ever fight are awkward, slow-witted, slow-moving buffoons.

Is pipe wrench guy attacking wrong? :tongueout:

You are making a value judgment based on one still photo. There are at least three very specific nuances in the technique shown in that photo that would be very apparent to an MBC student but not to others.

Why is training against a bad guy wielding an impact weapon a fantasy scenario? In this case, it's a pipe wrench; it could just as easily be a hammer, a car ice scraper, a beer bottle, a golf club, a tire iron, a softball bat, etc.

I don't need defend MBC. Michael Janich and MBC stand on their own merits. All I know is I get 5-8 hours of training a week, week in, week out.

cloudbuster
10-30-2011, 09:35
I carry a Cold Steel 6" Voyager weak side. More for going to places that I can't carry CHL or to get someone off of my CHL if need. also have a Kimber Lifeact OC spray same reason

If you're somewhere where you can't CHL, it's entirely likely you're someplace where carrying a deadly weapon is illegal.

Knife laws are a confusing jumble of state and local regulations. There are more than just a few places where a 6" blade is a deadly weapon.

faawrenchbndr
10-30-2011, 09:42
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/ColtCommanderwithM1911.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/ColtCommanderwithM1911knifebobtailed-1-1.jpg

cloudbuster
10-30-2011, 09:44
Is pipe wrench guy attacking wrong? :tongueout:

You are making a value judgment based on one still photo. There are at least three very specific nuances in the technique shown in that photo that would be very apparent to an MBC student but not to others.

Why is training against a bad guy wielding an impact weapon a fantasy scenario? In this case, it's a pipe wrench; it could just as easily be a hammer, a car ice scraper, a beer bottle, a golf club, a tire iron, a softball bat, etc.

I don't need defend MBC. Michael Janich and MBC stand on their own merits. All I know is I get 5-8 hours of training a week, week in, week out.

The fantasy is that all those nuanced techniques are ever going to do a damn for you in a real life situation.

I refer to

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifefighting.html

"I say this because about 99% of what is out there about 'knife fighting' will either get you killed or put you into the prison showers."

I've been in a few fights, and I've done plenty of the sorts of sparring that occurs in unarmed and weapon-based martial arts training.

The kind of thug who attacks you with deadly intent is going to be neither slow, nor weak nor clumsy, nor going to give you a fair chance.

The "angry homeowner" the OP describes probably doesn't really want to get in a deadly fight in the first place, and the OP would be better off studying conflict de-escalation than knife-fighting.

cloudbuster
10-30-2011, 09:56
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/ColtCommanderwithM1911.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/ColtCommanderwithM1911knifebobtailed-1-1.jpg

Yes, this is what I recommend. Always keep an attractive photo of your knife and gun in your wallet. Then when the homeowner gets angry, you can distract him by whipping it out to show him, and you can both bond by having a cool manly conversation about self-defense tools. :tongueout:

dcc12
10-30-2011, 14:55
If you're somewhere where you can't CHL, it's entirely likely you're someplace where carrying a deadly weapon is illegal.

Knife laws are a confusing jumble of state and local regulations. There are more than just a few places where a 6" blade is a deadly weapon.
True but Texas is not one of them

old wanderer
10-30-2011, 15:13
Carrying a knife is like carrying a gun. (I carry both). If you do not train, you either have to be lucky, or you might as well go find a big rock.

If I am under 5' from my adversary, I will always opt for my knife over my 45. I will do 100% of my fighting inside the adversary OODA loop. Beside he makes a good shield in case there are other to deal with.

I am an "old wobbler" these days, but I still try and do 2 days a year of FOF training, and more days with other weapons.

It is not that I think I am going to be playing a stand-in for Rambo, but it is just really satisfying to work hard with a high level of proficiency.

(However,,,,you just never know about those Zombies :faint: )

Spiffums
10-30-2011, 15:20
I always carry a pocket knife. In kansas tue legal lenth is 3 and a half inches if Im correct.

Gibbs Rule #6: Always carry a knife.

A6Gator
10-30-2011, 18:21
Take one of Emerson's Combat Systems Extreme CQB or Janich's Martial Blade Concept classes. Most of the people I know that carry knives, use them as an appendix/offside defensive weapon to punish a strong side gun grab...

John Biltz
10-30-2011, 18:41
Arizona classifies a knife as a tool. The state law over rules local laws. There are other states that are following Arizona's example. I carry one weak side mainly because you really should always have a knife and not mainly for fighting. But if someone got on top of my and I could not access my gun and felt the threat was great enough I'd use it. I've been in a number of fights where it never occurred to me to go for a knife. It was not that kind of fight and I was not going to escalate it to that kind of fight. I was young back then.

jdavionic
10-30-2011, 19:36
Sooooo my rant amd question is, if you had to defend yourself with a knife what would you do?

Not sure I understand the specifics of what you're asking. The premise of your question is that you have to defend yourself with a knife. So, what would I do? :dunno: I'd use the knife. It's been a quite some time since I trained with one. However if I had to use it and that's all I had, then I'd certainly make the most of it.

If you're asking techniques, etc, the answers are very depending on the dynamics & specifics of the situation...in other words, no one-size-fits-all solution.

dosei
10-30-2011, 19:42
As has already been noted, a knife is a deadly weapon. It's use is only justified when deadly force is justified...which means you are against an armed opponent or several opponents. And knife fighting, more than anything else IMHO, requires training...professional training. It is not something that can be learned or taught well in an internet forum.

txgunguy
10-31-2011, 08:07
I always carry my knife along with my Glock 19, if a BG approached me with a knife, I would pull out my Glock, the knife is just in case I cant get to my gun.

Did you read his post? Thats not an option for him as he can't carry at work.

To answer your question, if I had to defend myself with a knife, I would. A tanto blade is excellent for this and would make a great normal use pocket knife.

Oramac
10-31-2011, 10:13
A knife is a deadly weapon exactly equal to a gun in terms of legal ramifications of using one in a fight. If you're justified in stabbing someone, you're justified in shooting them. If you are so justified, why would you want to have a knife as the tool at your disposal?

He said he can't carry anything else at work. Therefore, a knife is the only option.

If they've pulled a club, baseball bat, wrench or tire iron on you, they've got a much better weapon than you do and you're in still deep trouble.

Going to have to disagree with you here. It all depends on the person, and if they know what they're doing. I don't pretend to be an expert, but if you have a baseball bat against me with a knife? First thing I'm doing is getting as close to you as possible. The bat requires momentum to do maximum damage, the knife does not. I realize that not all people are comfortable with this, but if you are, you can force a situation where you have an advantage.

H&K 4 LIFE
10-31-2011, 10:34
This...

...The "angry homeowner" the OP describes probably doesn't really want to get in a deadly fight in the first place, and the OP would be better off studying conflict de-escalation than knife-fighting.

and this...

As has already been noted, a knife is a deadly weapon. It's use is only justified when deadly force is justified...which means you are against an armed opponent or several opponents...

G_34
10-31-2011, 20:22
gibbs rule #6: Always carry a knife.

that's rule #9....rule #6 is never apologize

GlockOnBoard
11-02-2011, 09:09
I always carry a knife. I would rather have a knife than pepper spray any day.

cloudbuster
11-02-2011, 10:47
He said he can't carry anything else at work. Therefore, a knife is the only option.



Going to have to disagree with you here. It all depends on the person, and if they know what they're doing. I don't pretend to be an expert, but if you have a baseball bat against me with a knife? First thing I'm doing is getting as close to you as possible. The bat requires momentum to do maximum damage, the knife does not. I realize that not all people are comfortable with this, but if you are, you can force a situation where you have an advantage.

He absolutely doesn't say that. He says he can't carry a gun, but that he doesn't currently have any spray. My suggestion is that he go get himself some spray. It's as easy as buying a knife.

For the second part of your post, first see the rest of my post you're quoting. OP is putting himself in a very bad situation here, legally and ethically, regardless of who's "right" or who has the "best" weapon. He has a job that, for some reason, requires him to frequently deal with angry homeowners. What is he, a repo man? We don't know. But any time you come on someone's property and make them angry, no matter what your job, you better be looking for non-lethal exit plans. A knife is not part of such a plan. Pepper sprays and stun guns maybe. A kind word and good demeanor even moreso.

Debating whether a baseball bat or a knife is a better weapon to have in a fight is really beside the point, so I won't get started on it.

H&K 4 LIFE
11-02-2011, 11:03
... I would rather have a knife than pepper spray any day.

Those two items are not used within the same parameters.

A knife is a cutting tool that if used for self-defense is considered a deadly weapon, while OC spray is a recognized less than lethal self-defense option.

cloudbuster
11-02-2011, 11:08
I will do 100% of my fighting inside the adversary OODA loop.

OODA Loop == Observe. Orient. Decide. Act.

Attacking with the knife "100% inside the adversary OODA loop" means a fast, determined, aggressive, lethal assault.

I don't want to be the OP after he made a homeowner angry and decided it was time to go all tactical on his butt like that.

"Well, your honor, he was mad that I was repo-ing his car, and he picked up a tire iron and was advancing on me, saying 'Get the hell out of here!.' I immediately lunged inside his reach, pinned his arm and gutted him. Sadly, he bled out before the emergency squad could arrive."

God help you, with a great lawyer and a sympathetic jury, maybe you could convince them that your life was in imminent danger, but I really, really, really don't want to be you.

If your only tool can only be used in potentially lethal or crippling ways, you have eliminated a bunch of other options.

wolf19r
11-02-2011, 11:10
As a back up or a primary when I cant carry. Plus its a utility item to cut things when needed. In a lot of situations I would use it closed in hand as an impact device.

cloudbuster
11-02-2011, 11:26
Plus its a utility item to cut things when needed.

That's what my knife is for.

Unlike the OP, I don't regularly or willingly confront angry homeowners. If I did, I would consider myself to have an enormous gap in my tool set if I didn't have a non-lethal self-defense alternative.

Even meter readers often carry pepper spray to defend from dog attacks.

If all I have is my knife I am, like Lior, gonna run like the devil if threatened, if at all possible. Unless we're talking about a law-enforcement officer, I can't imagine any job that puts me in conflict with homeowners that's worth risking my life or theirs over.

GlockOnBoard
11-02-2011, 12:01
Those two items are not used within the same parameters.

A knife is a cutting tool that if used for self-defense is considered a deadly weapon, while OC spray is a recognized less than lethal self-defense option.


Understood. But if I had to choose between either if a pistol was not an option I would rather have a lethal/practical option than a non lethal self-defense option. Just my .02

Oramac
11-02-2011, 13:59
He absolutely doesn't say that. He says he can't carry a gun, but that he doesn't currently have any spray. My suggestion is that he go get himself some spray. It's as easy as buying a knife.

Buying spray is probably easier than buying a knife. And after re-reading the OP, you're right. My apologies.

For the second part of your post, first see the rest of my post you're quoting. OP is putting himself in a very bad situation here, legally and ethically, regardless of who's "right" or who has the "best" weapon. He has a job that, for some reason, requires him to frequently deal with angry homeowners. What is he, a repo man? We don't know. But any time you come on someone's property and make them angry, no matter what your job, you better be looking for non-lethal exit plans. A knife is not part of such a plan. Pepper sprays and stun guns maybe. A kind word and good demeanor even moreso.

There's a big difference between an "exit plan" and a "self-defense plan", at least in my mind. Yes, he should first look for a less lethal exit plan. Truth be told, he should already have the plan, and be looking for the proper way to carry it out. That said, I was working on the assumption that we'd moved passed an "exit plan" and into "self-defense plan" territory. Assuming that, we all know our own states laws on use of lethal force, and if we're in the SD plan, we are probably looking at a justifiable use of lethal force. For that reason I moved towards the knife.

SpringerTGO
11-02-2011, 16:21
Besides the fact that using a knife properly requires physical skill, conditioning, and training...... it automatically escalates a hostile encounter to a potentially deadly one. If deployed, at best it will be a bloody mess, and an emotional nightmare. It will also be a financial nightmare.
And any encounter that can't be dealt with by using spray will most likely be impossible to deal with using a knife. And spray won't carry as much of the emotional, financial, and (most likely) physical consequences that using a knife might carry.

Folsom_Prison
11-02-2011, 23:28
Sorry for the late response guys. I read the posts and thanks for the input. A couple things I'd like to cover here.

1. Just FYI I don't go looking for confrontations with homeowners they have caused them themselves actually.

2. One poster mentioned I might be a repo man or such amd that's why these confrontations have happened. That's not the case. Im contracted by the local power company to trim trees from power lines. The company I'm contracted by has a contract with there customers, in that contract it states my company can come in trim trees on folks property.

The problem is that I'm sure 99% of people don't read there contract amd when we show up to do our line clearance they get pissed because we have to trim or remove their trees. This is what has led to hostile homeowners. Company policy states no firearms, in all honesty I probly should find out there feelings on spray. But as far as I know pocket knives are not a issue. Hope this clears some things up guys.

A.J.

cloudbuster
11-03-2011, 08:12
If anyone ever injures or kills anyone else over tree trimming, then there was a whole lot of bad choices that led up to it.

I just can't imagine getting in a deadly conflict with a homeowner over something like that.

Someone starts getting that belligerent, you apologize, hop back in your truck, lock the doors, drive away and call your manager. Pepper spray or a stun gun ought to give you the time to do that.

Again, I say, as others have said, a knife is a tool that can only be used in a fight to cripple and kill. It's the wrong tool for the job you have. Not saying don't carry a knife, but carry something non-lethal, too. It would be a terrific tragedy if you ever had to use that knife, no matter how justified you were. Do everything in your power to avoid it.

"It's a hell of a thing, killing a man." -- Will Munny, Unforgiven

ETA: On the other side of this, as a tree trimmer, do you carry a machete? It's a tool of the trade, so no one can say you were looking for trouble by carrying it, and pretty much nobody takes lightly a physical confrontation with someone holding a machete. They'll probably be eyeing that thing carefully for long enough for you to get back in your truck (again, I don't want you to have to actually use it).

Folsom_Prison
11-03-2011, 20:58
If anyone ever injures or kills anyone else over tree trimming, then there was a whole lot of bad choices that led up to it.

I just can't imagine getting in a deadly conflict with a homeowner over something like that.

Someone starts getting that belligerent, you apologize, hop back in your truck, lock the doors, drive away and call your manager. Pepper spray or a stun gun ought to give you the time to do that.


ETA: On the other side of this, as a tree trimmer, do you carry a machete? It's a tool of the trade.

I appricate your concern, thanks. In the past we've apologized and fled back to tue truck to avoid confrontation. It hasn't happend to me but homeowners have followed guys I work with back to the truck with different weapons. Some people are just flat crazy.

As far as a machete goes we have no need for those, we use chainsaws and handsaws.

valian
11-04-2011, 11:00
The fantasy is that all those nuanced techniques are ever going to do a damn for you in a real life situation.

I refer to

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifefighting.html

"I say this because about 99% of what is out there about 'knife fighting' will either get you killed or put you into the prison showers."

I've been in a few fights, and I've done plenty of the sorts of sparring that occurs in unarmed and weapon-based martial arts training.

The kind of thug who attacks you with deadly intent is going to be neither slow, nor weak nor clumsy, nor going to give you a fair chance.

The "angry homeowner" the OP describes probably doesn't really want to get in a deadly fight in the first place, and the OP would be better off studying conflict de-escalation than knife-fighting.

How about the guy can study conflict resolution AND have a knife for when that does not work. The problem with arguments like yours is always that you assume the OP is a dumbass who does not know about dealing with conflicts etc. when in fact you know very little about the guy. And you seem to act like it is either conflict resolution OR a knife when having both is better yet.

I am very familiar with the website you mention as well as other books by that author. There will be times when all of the other techniques to solve the problems peacefully may not work. Why act like all defense with a knife is impossible and anyone who thinks it is not is at best naive?

By the way your ridicule of MBC based on one photo shows your own naivete and ignorance of one of the soundest methods of teaching basic self defense with a knife. (and btw, mbc techniques are far from nuanced) Just as all knife techniques do not work in all situations, there are many situations where a gun is basically worthless as well. Having as many options at your disposal as possible evens things out a bit... and having a knife can be a good thing in certain situations. No need to act like the OP is a teenage juvenile delinquent who will only get himself into trouble because he is carrying a knife.

cloudbuster
11-04-2011, 11:06
H...you assume the OP is a dumbass who does not know about dealing with conflicts etc. when in fact you know very little about the guy....

....No need to act like the OP is a teenage juvenile delinquent who will only get himself into trouble because he is carrying a knife.


Frankly, with strangers on the internet, that's always the safest assumption.

Cheytac
11-04-2011, 11:18
Get some Fox Lab spray. And I always carried when I worked for "them." :whistling:






Throw them in the chipper... :supergrin:

H&K 4 LIFE
11-04-2011, 11:49
... Why act like all defense with a knife is impossible and anyone who thinks it is not is at best naive?...

Self-defense with a knife is not impossible, but has a very small scope of application. It is an absolute last resort.

Considering that the classic "knife fight" where two people square off with blades drawn is largely a fallacy perpetuated by the movies, circumstances where defensive use of a knife is prudent and effective, while remaining legally justifiable, are actually quite limited.

Also, keep in mind that using an edged weapon for self-defense requires us to do something that "normal" people consider unsavory and almost animalistic in nature (stabbing and cutting into the flesh of another human being). It is safe to assume that to a good majority of people stabbing another person is an action mostly identifiable with the character of a hardcore criminal or prisoner. Take into account that this is a context in which a jury may view the defensive use of your knife as well.

ChadN.
11-04-2011, 12:06
Anyone looking for knife-fighting practice?

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/phi/1755781713.html

cloudbuster
11-04-2011, 12:08
... largely a fallacy perpetuated by the movies...

Dude, I've seen West Side Story, you can't fool me! I do finger-snapping and dance-fighting drills every day!

cloudbuster
11-04-2011, 12:10
Anyone looking for knife-fighting practice?

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/phi/1755781713.html

Well, who wouldn't be tempted by that?

FireForged
11-04-2011, 12:43
I am not against training but its simple logic that a untrained person armed a knife would normally be more dangerous a defender than the same person unarmed.

Oramac
11-04-2011, 14:51
Frankly, with strangers on the internet, that's always the safest assumption.

Guilty until proven innocent. Why not assume they have a brain until they prove otherwise? (Which the OP certainly has not)

BK63
11-04-2011, 18:58
I know lots of guys that carry knives in their boots when working on the street as a backup weapon. Knives are better than nothing. In some states a folding knife is best because there is no size limit on a folding knife in those states. Just check your state laws and be safe. :cool:

4 inches in my state so I carry a Spyderco Endura 4. 4 inches and razor sharp. Quality knife for about 50 bucks.

A6Gator
11-04-2011, 19:59
Found a good article regarding non-firearm carry:

http://www.neshooters.com/otherweapons.pdf

Thanks, Mas :wavey:

larry1096
11-04-2011, 20:01
If anyone ever injures or kills anyone else over tree trimming, then there was a whole lot of bad choices that led up to it.

I just can't imagine getting in a deadly conflict with a homeowner over something like that.

Someone starts getting that belligerent, you apologize, hop back in your truck, lock the doors, drive away and call your manager. Pepper spray or a stun gun ought to give you the time to do that.

Again, I say, as others have said, a knife is a tool that can only be used in a fight to cripple and kill. It's the wrong tool for the job you have. Not saying don't carry a knife, but carry something non-lethal, too. It would be a terrific tragedy if you ever had to use that knife, no matter how justified you were. Do everything in your power to avoid it.

"It's a hell of a thing, killing a man." -- Will Munny, Unforgiven

ETA: On the other side of this, as a tree trimmer, do you carry a machete? It's a tool of the trade, so no one can say you were looking for trouble by carrying it, and pretty much nobody takes lightly a physical confrontation with someone holding a machete. They'll probably be eyeing that thing carefully for long enough for you to get back in your truck (again, I don't want you to have to actually use it).

You seem to live in a nice, neat little world. I'd like to visit!

Warp
11-04-2011, 20:51
I carry an Emerson La Griffe. (neck knife)

I bought it because the blade is <2" long and is thus legal on college campuses here in GA, where my firearm is not allowed.

cloudbuster
11-07-2011, 13:00
You seem to live in a nice, neat little world. I'd like to visit!

It's this "real world" thing that some of us live in. How many people have you had to knife lately?

larry1096
11-07-2011, 13:38
It's this "real world" thing that some of us live in. How many people have you had to knife lately?

None, thankfully. I have survived three knife attacks, though; none of which happened as neatly or predictably as you seem to believe they will.

Larry

cloudbuster
11-08-2011, 03:20
None, thankfully. I have survived three knife attacks, though; none of which happened as neatly or predictably as you seem to believe they will.

Larry

Go back and read my comments in full. "Neatly and predictably" is exactly the opposite of how I expect and describe a knife attack happening. Did you actually read this thread? Do you understand the situation the OP is asking for advice about?

IT0
11-08-2011, 05:45
I've got some concerns when it comes to stabbing/cutting someone. First it's the idea of getting someones blood all over me. I'd rather spray someone and try to escape VS stabbing/cutting and getting their blood on me. In all likelyhood you are going to have to stab them repeatedly, which means your hands are going to have their blood on them and be slippery. You're probably going to get cut too--not good to get cut, and have some nuts blood mixed with yours….

THIS! ^^^^^^^^^^^^

... The company I'm contracted by has a contract with there customers, in that contract it states my company can come in trim trees on folks property...

A.J.

So you have a chainsaw? What do you need a knife for?

Seriously why not carry pepper spray on the grounds you need it for dogs. I personally believe just seeing that can of spray on your side is a deterrent.

Brucev
11-08-2011, 06:24
"Sounds like what you really need is some pepper spray. Good against dogs and aggressive homeowners who want to take a swing at you, and won't get you real friendly with someone in the prison shower. Probably misdemeanor at worst if it's decided you used poor judgment." This!!!

larry1096
11-08-2011, 06:40
Go back and read my comments in full. "Neatly and predictably" is exactly the opposite of how I expect and describe a knife attack happening. Did you actually read this thread? Do you understand the situation the OP is asking for advice about?

Why yes, I have. And read your assumptions about how lethat attacks start, and how they can be avoided:

I just can't imagine getting in a deadly conflict with a homeowner over something like that.

Someone starts getting that belligerent, you apologize, hop back in your truck, lock the doors, drive away and call your manager. Pepper spray or a stun gun ought to give you the time to do that.


As I said, a nice, neat world. But none of the attacks against me was 'rational', and all the Verbal Judo (TM) (I'm an instructor) or conflict resolution in the world wouldn't have helped in any of the three. OC (Again, I'm an instructor) would have likely failed in one, DID fail in another and would almost certainly have gotten me killed in the third.

I would hate to have to really injure someone over an argument about tree-trimming; that doesn't mean that no one will want to seriously harm ME over that same issue. Trying to predict what angry or violent people will do is usually the mark of someone who hasn't encountered too many in 'the real world', hence my original comment.

Larry

cloudbuster
11-08-2011, 08:17
Why yes, I have. And read your assumptions about how lethat attacks start, and how they can be avoided:



As I said, a nice, neat world. But none of the attacks against me was 'rational', and all the Verbal Judo (TM) (I'm an instructor) or conflict resolution in the world wouldn't have helped in any of the three. OC (Again, I'm an instructor) would have likely failed in one, DID fail in another and would almost certainly have gotten me killed in the third.

I would hate to have to really injure someone over an argument about tree-trimming; that doesn't mean that no one will want to seriously harm ME over that same issue. Trying to predict what angry or violent people will do is usually the mark of someone who hasn't encountered too many in 'the real world', hence my original comment.

Larry

Despite our differing views about what "the real world" consists of, at least here in the U.S., the fact is that most people who aren't law enforcement officers go their entire lives without being attacked with a knife once, no less three times. So, what conforms to most peoples' experience is, in fact, "the real world." Most of us, apparently, aren't living the gritty down-and-dirty life that you are. It sounds like you're better at getting yourself into trouble than avoiding it.

MarcoPolo
11-08-2011, 09:22
If there is misinformation, parroted wives tales, and flat out myth in the handgun world, it's 10x worse in the knife world.

If you haven't ever actually TRAINED (force on force) gun vs. knife, or knife attack/defense... I highly recommend you do. It's an eye opening experience. Find a local Kali/Escrima school and ask some questions.

The knife is like any other carry weapon. Train with it, train how to deploy it and get it in the fight.

larry1096
11-08-2011, 10:32
Despite our differing views about what "the real world" consists of, at least here in the U.S., the fact is that most people who aren't law enforcement officers go their entire lives without being attacked with a knife once, no less three times. So, what conforms to most peoples' experience is, in fact, "the real world." Most of us, apparently, aren't living the gritty down-and-dirty life that you are. It sounds like you're better at getting yourself into trouble than avoiding it.

Well, two occurred when I was an LEO; one was in private life when I was the victim of an attempted armed robbery while walking down my (old) block. You know, walking the dog, looking for trouble...

I suppose in the absence of experience, a snarky attitude is the best defense. And quoting probabilities in a self-defense oriented forum is disingenous, at best; MOST people will not be attacked today, so why carry a gun? MOST people will not crash their car, have a fire in their kitchen...

I like the internet; it makes people who've never done something an expert.

Larry

MarcoPolo
11-08-2011, 11:02
I like the internet; it makes people who've never done something an expert.

Larry

Quote of the day!

I'll say this to those who haven't done any force on force with the knife... if you're first move when confronted with a blade is to draw your gun, you're going to get gutted.

I've proven this over...and over...and over. I've probably done it 200 times and even when they know it's coming i've had 1... ONE guy beat the blade. (He fell down accidentally while drawing and was able to get a shot off as I reached down for him).

cloudbuster
11-08-2011, 11:23
Well, two occurred when I was an LEO; one was in private life when I was the victim of an attempted armed robbery while walking down my (old) block. You know, walking the dog, looking for trouble...

I suppose in the absence of experience, a snarky attitude is the best defense. And quoting probabilities in a self-defense oriented forum is disingenous, at best; MOST people will not be attacked today, so why carry a gun? MOST people will not crash their car, have a fire in their kitchen...

I like the internet; it makes people who've never done something an expert.

Larry

If two of the attacks happened when you were an LEO, then you of all people should know how the expectations and options available to a civilian differ from those of an LEO. As for a snarky attitude, I'm only responding to the one that you brought into the conversation. I also note that you're the internet hero presenting yourself as an expert.

cloudbuster
11-08-2011, 11:26
Quote of the day!

I'll say this to those who haven't done any force on force with the knife... if you're first move when confronted with a blade is to draw your gun, you're going to get gutted.

I've proven this over...and over...and over. I've probably done it 200 times and even when they know it's coming i've had 1... ONE guy beat the blade. (He fell down accidentally while drawing and was able to get a shot off as I reached down for him).

Likewise, if your first move is to draw your knife, you're going to get gutted. If someone has a knife on you, is intent on using it, and they're within about 7 feet of you, they've got a big advantage and stopping to draw any kind of weapon is difficult.

ETA: But let's get back to the OP's actual situation. He's not dealing with attempted muggers springing on him from dark alleys. He's a tree trimmer. He goes to trim trees around power lines.

Sometimes homeowners come out and say stuff like "Hey, leave my trees alone!"

He has to tell them something like "Your deed and/or your contract with the power lines includes a right-of-way to trim trees around the lines. It's for your safety and everyone else's."

Now and again he or one of his buddies gets some belligerent guy who responds angrily or irrationally "The hell with that! Get the hell off my property!"

Now, a really stupid homeowner might then brandish a weapon of some sort and try to chase them off if they're not fast enough. Even that guy is not intent on committing murder and mayhem, not really. I've met that guy. Had him yelling at me and threatening me.

The one in a million psycho tree-trimming hater murderer, yeah, I guess it could happen.

Notice that nowhere in this thread have I said don't carry a knife. Note that at one point I even suggest a machete -- because it's a better weapon and a tool of the trade. What I have been emphasizing over and over, is that if this guy is really worried about aggressive homeowners, the vast majority of whom are not intent on committing murder, then he is missing something by concentrating on a deadly weapon that's dangerous and ugly to use and will be legally problematic for him in even the best of outcomes. Sure, carry that knife, but carry some pepper spray, because I'd bet substantial money that pepper spray is more than you'll ever need.

Guys like larry1096 who come in all condescending about how I must live such a nice quiet life make me nervous, because most people -- tree trimmers and your average homeowner included -- do live nice, quiet lives. It's unnecessary to train to become a deadly weapon with a knife because of the one-in-a-million angry, psychotic homeowner willing to kill over tree limbs and who can't be stopped by non-lethal means. That displays a worrisome myopia.

If you like martial combat training, do it. Just like if you like doing IPDA or CAS, or tae kwon do. It's great exercise and discipline and it may serve you in a fight if that should ever arise, but, honestly, for most people it's a hobby. You don't need to be a human weapon to be a tree trimmer, seriously. The great thing about a handgun as a defensive weapon is that it doesn't require incredible physical training or capabilities to use effectively. Most of the thousands of people who successfully defend themselves with a firearm every year are not graduates of Thunder Ranch or the equivalent. That's not the same thing as saying Thunder Ranch is bad. It's just not something that everyone needs.

Last month, 20 miles from me, an exotic animal owner committed suicide after releasing dozens of full-grown tigers, lions and wolves into the surrounding area. My self-defense training and practice had never encompassed protection from full-grown Bengal tigers and grizzlies (we don't have grizzlies in Ohio). If you'd told me the day before, "That 9mm or .357 magnum pistol you carry isn't enough: you never know when you could run into a hungry Bengal Tiger as you stroll around central Ohio," I would have thought, "C'mon, what are the odds of that?" I'm not going to start carrying a large bore rifle or shotgun with slugs in my truck now on the off chance that I'll need to stop a charging grizzly. I'm not going to switch my carry gun to a .500 S&W, because "Hey, wild animals! It could happen! It did happen!"

To the OP, you want knife training, great, go get it, but do it because it interests you, not because it's a good use of your time with regard to your profession of tree trimming.

larry1096
11-08-2011, 11:49
If two of the attacks happened when you were an LEO, then you of all people should know how the expectations and options available to a civilian differ from those of an LEO. As for a snarky attitude, I'm only responding to the one that you brought into the conversation. I also note that you're the internet hero presenting yourself as an expert.

I do know that. And if your contention is that I should know about how these things play out, I know that, too. I've seen civilians attacked with knives, and seen some of those taken away already expired.

And I also know that in the one incident you're conveniently choosing to ignore, any other citizen would have been in exactly the spot I'm in, assuming they looked like they had seven or eight bucks in their pocket.

I'm no expert in knife and knife defense; I'm certified to teach it, and have, and have used it 'for real', but I'm far from an expert. But I have seen people do irrational things, for irrational reasons, I've seen people try to kill other people over a word mis-spoken or a 'hard' look. I reject your idea that lethal encounters can be avoided as neatly as you have stated, and support the idea that a lethal weapon option remain to someone who has no intention to cause a lethal confrontation, because we can't control what other people will do.

Have you ever sprayed anyone with OC? You recommend it; have you ever used it in our out of training? I wouldn't bet $5 on it working, since I've seen it fail more than times than I can count.

I'm not 'an internet hero' (snarky?), but have actually done the things we're discussing. You, quite obviously, have not. It's like arguing a point with Wikipedia.

Larry

cloudbuster
11-08-2011, 12:08
I do know that. And if your contention is that I should know about how these things play out, I know that, too. I've seen civilians attacked with knives, and seen some of those taken away already expired.

And I also know that in the one incident you're conveniently choosing to ignore, any other citizen would have been in exactly the spot I'm in, assuming they looked like they had seven or eight bucks in their pocket.

I'm no expert in knife and knife defense; I'm certified to teach it, and have, and have used it 'for real', but I'm far from an expert. But I have seen people do irrational things, for irrational reasons, I've seen people try to kill other people over a word mis-spoken or a 'hard' look. I reject your idea that lethal encounters can be avoided as neatly as you have stated, and support the idea that a lethal weapon option remain to someone who has no intention to cause a lethal confrontation, because we can't control what other people will do.

Have you ever sprayed anyone with OC? You recommend it; have you ever used it in our out of training? I wouldn't bet $5 on it working, since I've seen it fail more than times than I can count.

I'm not 'an internet hero' (snarky?), but have actually done the things we're discussing. You, quite obviously, have not. It's like arguing a point with Wikipedia.

Larry

I never say that a lethal weapon option shouldn't be available. I just think that in this particular situation, the poster asking about protection against angry homeowners in the course of his work, that focusing on the lethal option is the incorrect focus.

larry1096
11-08-2011, 12:48
I never say that a lethal weapon option shouldn't be available. I just think that in this particular situation, the poster asking about protection against angry homeowners in the course of his work, that focusing on the lethal option is the incorrect focus.


But any time you come on someone's property and make them angry, no matter what your job, you better be looking for non-lethal exit plans. A knife is not part of such a plan. Pepper sprays and stun guns maybe. A kind word and good demeanor even moreso.

(Emphasis added)
Well, if we only have what you say to go on, it's certainly confusing. :)

cloudbuster
11-08-2011, 13:37
(Emphasis added)
Well, if we only have what you say to go on, it's certainly confusing. :)

There's a huge difference between saying that a knife is not part of a non-lethal defense or exit plan -- it's not -- and saying that you shouldn't carry a knife. You're really stretching here. I don't get why you are so averse to the idea that when a person who goes house to house and occasionally encounters an angry homeowner is asking what to do about those situations, that one should focus most on the non-lethal options.

SpringerTGO
11-08-2011, 14:45
I'm just trying to figure out when you need to draw a knife while trimming trees.

You show up and start trimming, and the homeowner comes running at you with a gun? knife? bat?, yelling he is going to kill you for cutting his trees. So you pull your knife (because he is intent on killing you) and engage him in a knife fight?

I'm not too sure about that, so lets try this.

Maybe you show up to cut the trees, and the homeowner shows up with a weapon and says "if you cut my tree I will kill you". So you pull your knife and say, "I will cut your tree, because it is my job and if you try to kill me I will defend myself". Because it is worth it :)

I don't know about that one either.
How about this.

You show up to cut the trees, and the owner shows up with a weapon and says "if you touch one branch of my apple tree you will die".
Then you say, "I'll leave you and your tree alone", and pack your stuff, drive down the street, dial 911, and tell the police you were just threatened with a weapon while trying to do your job.

No way.
Maybe a bazooka would be a better choice.

cloudbuster
11-08-2011, 15:22
I'm just trying to figure out when you need to draw a knife while trimming trees.

You show up and start trimming, and the homeowner comes running at you with a gun? knife? bat?, yelling he is going to kill you for cutting his trees. So you pull your knife (because he is intent on killing you) and engage him in a knife fight?

I'm not too sure about that, so lets try this.

Maybe you show up to cut the trees, and the homeowner shows up with a weapon and says "if you cut my tree I will kill you". So you pull your knife and say, "I will cut your tree, because it is my job and if you try to kill me I will defend myself". Because it is worth it :)

I don't know about that one either.
How about this.

You show up to cut the trees, and the owner shows up with a weapon and says "if you touch one branch of my apple tree you will die".
Then you say, "I'll leave you and your tree alone", and pack your stuff, drive down the street, dial 911, and tell the police you were just threatened with a weapon while trying to do your job.

No way.
Maybe a bazooka would be a better choice.

Clearly you didn't take into account the fact that ninjas also have homes. With trees. You can't take out a ninja with a bazooka. And by the time you see the ninja homeowner, he's already on top of you; you don't have time to draw a gun, no less a bazooka. Your only hope is if you too are a ninja!*



*Or a pirate. But that's hotly debated.

SpringerTGO
11-08-2011, 16:40
Clearly you didn't take into account the fact that ninjas also have homes. With trees. You can't take out a ninja with a bazooka. And by the time you see the ninja homeowner, he's already on top of you; you don't have time to draw a gun, no less a bazooka. Your only hope is if you too are a ninja!*



*Or a pirate. But that's hotly debated.

I think you got it! But instead of any knife, he needs a tanto. :rofl:

valian
11-10-2011, 18:46
It is simply amazing to me when some people fall all over themselves in some sort of competition to appear to be the most 'moderate' and then end up saying all kinds of stupid crap. I don't know if they are trying to impress their girlfriends or what. Also this stupid nonsense about 'why would you ever need a knife to defend yourself while trimming trees' sound exactly like all the anti-gun, anti-ccw garbage spewed about like...why would you ever need a gun in a restaurant, or at your in-laws, or just going to the store etc etc. ... there is no difference whatsoever!

To the OP:

It is very possible to have success at defending yourself with a knife. Just remember all rules for use of lethal force apply the same as with your gun you cannot carry.
You CAN learn basic defense skills with a knife very quickly through the Martial Blade Concepts system taught by the highly respected Michael Janich. A one or two day course followed up with practice will give you some good basic skills for defending and escape, not focused entirely on killing but disabling your assailant from continuing the fight and give you good basic information on how and what to target to accomplish this in the shortest time and make your escape from a potentially lethal confrontation. These courses are not a waste of your time as others have implied. Try to find someone who teaches in your area and it is also beneficial to buy Janich's dvd for familiarity before taking the course or for basic instruction on targeting concepts. This is not 'nuanced', 'ninja' stuff but a basic, distilled course based on years of teaching experience by Janich to police, military etc.

The one good link given by cloudbuster to Marc MacYoung's site is very worthwhile for many situations but even MacYoung also teaches and writes about how to use a knife in situations because as others have pointed out, sometimes all the verbal judo and attempts to leave do not work. I assume that these are the instances you have in mind not assuming as others have that you are just out looking for trouble because you have a knife in your pocket. .. or you could follow the advice of the 'cannot do it, can't be done, will never happen, and won't work unless you are a ninja' advisers and give your knife to your mother before you poke your eye out with it:upeyes:

Lord
11-10-2011, 21:12
check the legality of carrying an asp in your area as opposed to using a knife as a self defense. posts previous to mine are correct in that using a knife in self defense is akin to using a deadly weapon. An asp is not a deadly weapon. it's basically a collapsible staff.

Wolf Spyder
11-10-2011, 22:22
Sorry for the late response guys. I read the posts and thanks for the input. A couple things I'd like to cover here.

1. Just FYI I don't go looking for confrontations with homeowners they have caused them themselves actually.

2. One poster mentioned I might be a repo man or such and that's why these confrontations have happened. That's not the case. I'm contracted by the local power company to trim trees from power lines. The company I'm contracted by has a contract with there customers, in that contract it states my company can come in trim trees on folks property.

The problem is that I'm sure 99% of people don't read there contract and when we show up to do our line clearance they get pissed because we have to trim or remove their trees. This is what has led to hostile homeowners. Company policy states no firearms, in all honesty I probably should find out there feelings on spray. But as far as I know pocket knives are not a issue. Hope this clears some things up guys.

A.J.


No one should be looking for a fight. I think most of us have the presence of mind to avoid a deadly situation if at all possible. I know I try to avoid it if I can... however, that being said, I carry at least two CRKT M16-14M folding knives. I carry one on the strong side and one on the weak side for those moments where everything goes bad. Sure I would rather have a gun, but if one is not available I always have a knife. You can talk all day, for the next 10 years about what is legal, or what was justified... That is all internet crap. At the end of the day are you going to defend your own life or not? I have had a few moments, and one was while I was working, where everything went so bad so fast that there was no walking or running away. I stood my ground and defended my co-workers. You can not second guess yourself. You have to have all the mental stuff squared away before you strap on a gun or a knife.

If I may, Capt. Reynalds said it best; "...And don't you stand for that sort of thing. If someone ever tries to kill you try to kill them right back."

larry1096
11-11-2011, 21:41
check the legality of carrying an asp in your area as opposed to using a knife as a self defense. posts previous to mine are correct in that using a knife in self defense is akin to using a deadly weapon. An asp is not a deadly weapon. it's basically a collapsible staff.

Any strikes to the head, neck, spine or directly to the front of the chest with an impact weapon are generally considered 'lethal force.' To say something is not a 'deadly weapon' is difficult, hence all the 'less lethal' verbiage you get in referring to police stun and chemical weapons.

Larry

Peace Frog
11-12-2011, 10:19
Sorry for the late response guys. I read the posts and thanks for the input. A couple things I'd like to cover here.

1. Just FYI I don't go looking for confrontations with homeowners they have caused them themselves actually.

2. One poster mentioned I might be a repo man or such amd that's why these confrontations have happened. That's not the case. Im contracted by the local power company to trim trees from power lines. The company I'm contracted by has a contract with there customers, in that contract it states my company can come in trim trees on folks property.

The problem is that I'm sure 99% of people don't read there contract amd when we show up to do our line clearance they get pissed because we have to trim or remove their trees. This is what has led to hostile homeowners. Company policy states no firearms, in all honesty I probly should find out there feelings on spray. But as far as I know pocket knives are not a issue. Hope this clears some things up guys.

A.J.

So what tools do you have available to trim trees?
Some tree cutting/trimming tools are very effective weapons.

sns3guppy
11-12-2011, 15:48
LOL, that first picture on the Martial Blade Concepts website is effing hilarious. Guy with a folder going against someone with a big pipe wrench. They're making it look like "See how the skilled knife fighter countered this attacker" but, seriously, that guy with the wrench is wound up to cave in the knife wielder's skull with a back hand. Priceless. And that wrench guy, where's his left arm? The fantasy scenarios that knife training places work up are an endless source of amusement. They work great if the only people you ever fight are awkward, slow-witted, slow-moving buffoons.

You sound a lot like the kind of person that mouths off with stupid statements such as "never bring a knife to a gunfight." You may not be familiar with the more sage and wiser counsel to never bring a gun to a knife fight.

Is there a difference between facing someone with a pipe wrench using one's own bare hands, and facing them with a knife in one's hand? Not really; the knife adds options.

A skilled knife fighter against someone who isn't skilled with their wrench? You're going to see a massacre, with the wrench holder on the wrong end. There's little difference between engaging someone holding a knife, sword, stick, wrench, club, bat, or other tool. It's an extension of the body.

Enter a knife fight, and get cut. It doesn't matter who you are, or which end you're on; winning or losing. In one sense, everyone loses. On the larger sense, perhaps not so.

I've been cut. I've been stabbed. I've got the scars to prove it, though there's little need. I don't relish getting cut any more than anyone else, but day in and day out, regardless of where I am, a knife is nearly always present, though a firearm may not be.

Faced with an individual with a pipe wrench (hasn't come up, yet), I'm comfortable with a firearm, a knife, or nothing. Will I win? I don't know, and don't go out of my way to find out. To laugh at a professional who puts a scenario on his web site of a defender with a knife facing an attacker with a wrench shows a great deal of ignorance on your part, however, and doesn't speak well of you.

I haven't faced a pipe wrench. I've faced folding knives, fixed blades, a saw blade, various impact tools, a laptop computer once, and a few other things over the years, but never a pipe wrench. I really don't see that as being a game-ender. What leads you to sneer so arrogantly?

j-glock22
11-12-2011, 17:44
I carry one with me at all times, but I would rather put holes in a BG rather than put a knife into someone.... gives me the creeps thinking about stabbing someone... I see my blades I carry as more of a survival and a work tool than anything....

But if you're up against a wall, and your blade is all you have on you, it is certainly better than nothing at all.

SCmasterblaster
11-12-2011, 18:46
Why bother with all of this knife stuff? Just carry a totally hidden pistol. It shouldn't come out unless you are about to be killed.

H&K 4 LIFE
11-13-2011, 05:42
Why bother with all of this knife stuff?...

Because the OP states he cannot carry a firearm while he is at work.

Did you even bother to read the original post? :dunno:

...At work I can't legally carry...

steveksux
11-13-2011, 07:15
2. One poster mentioned I might be a repo man or such amd that's why these confrontations have happened. That's not the case. Im contracted by the local power company to trim trees from power lines. The company I'm contracted by has a contract with there customers, in that contract it states my company can come in trim trees on folks property. If you can trim trees with a compact folder, you really are an expert knife fighter... Just sayin'... :tongueout::supergrin:

Randy