Updated Video on FHP Trooper who Arrested [Archive] - Glock Talk

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James Dean
10-30-2011, 16:24
http://www.abc-7.com/global/story.asp?s=15908271

I think this explains a lot at the end

IndyGunFreak
10-30-2011, 16:33
Well, you have to wonder how she knows its "his car".. if they never catch it. Lets face it, if they ever got close enough to get info on the vehicle, it would have been very easy to to report the vehicle to the agency.

Not saying it wasn't him (certainly could have been)...

IGF

Black Smoke Trail
10-30-2011, 17:04
:popcorn:

Morris
10-30-2011, 17:13
Hand me some of that poppycorn, will ya?

I'm thinking I called it . . .

James Dean
10-30-2011, 17:15
Hand me some of that poppycorn, will ya?

I'm thinking I called it . . .
Yep You did Morris.
I'd like to see the look on the faces of the people at his off duty job. Where's Lopez? He won't be in today he got arrested on his way into work for speeding.

4949shooter
10-30-2011, 17:31
They couldn't "catch" a MARKED police car that speeds through their area all the time?

Really?

alaskacop556
10-30-2011, 17:53
Wow

I think the Trooper did the right thing initally when she saw the marked unit fly past her (thinking it was stolen) and everything up to placing handcuffs on another uniformed officer, unless there were other indicators that he was a danger to her (which did not seem that way in the video). A heavy ticket, ass chewing and days on the beach are definately in order here but the way the Trooper was talking about this being a constant problem with Miami, it seems this is a inter-agency issue that should be dealt with higher up in the chain and not arresting each other Super Trooper style. There may be times were cuffs go on; uniform or not, but this instance seemed a tad overkill...

nikerret
10-30-2011, 17:57
tagged

SAR
10-30-2011, 18:08
They couldn't "catch" a MARKED police car that speeds through their area all the time?

Really?

If it was such an ongoing problem then why didn't FHP file a complaint with Miami PD in the past?

James Dean
10-30-2011, 18:17
If it was such an ongoing problem then why didn't FHP file a complaint with Miami PD in the past?
Thats going to be the $64,000 question

siblueg
10-30-2011, 19:13
I think she did a good job

StarfoxHowl
10-30-2011, 19:32
Finally got the video to work. Now, from where I stand on the sidelines here, I don't see the issue with her putting the cuffs on the guy. She doesn't know the guy from adam. A uniform and badge doesn't automatically guarantee that he's not going to put up some sort of fight, or that he's even a real cop (referring to comments in the original thread about alerts on fake cops in the area).

And if you're honest with yourselves, after a chase of almost five minutes with lights and siren none of you have NEVER gone somewhat heavy on the driver? Have NEVER worked out a little bit of that "contempt of cop" frustration?

And why not approach the vehicle with pistol drawn? Police car, driver may, maybe not have a sidearm, may or may not have a shotgun, mini-14, m4 carbine or some other long arm inside. I would think she's erring on the side of OFFICER SAFETY here.

At least she didn't go all apes**t on him like the NC trooper that pulled over a woman who took too long to pull over, trying to yank her out of the car, threatening her first with "liquid hellfire" and then going for his duty knife to slice her seat belt.

4949shooter
10-30-2011, 19:35
If it was such an ongoing problem then why didn't FHP file a complaint with Miami PD in the past?

Exactly.

articulate
10-30-2011, 19:56
This would be my nightmare scenario as the responding Sergeant... on either side of the incident.

It will certainly make a heck of a good oral board question!

That is all.

BWT
10-30-2011, 19:58
She did what she felt she need to do. I now expect to hear/read about FHP vehicles being stopped and receiving tickets in Miami.

MVD
10-30-2011, 20:20
Hmmm, first Trooper "Manfro" tells the officer that he scared the crap out of her because she thought the car was a stolen RMP. Later she says that she always sees that particular car hauling ass down the freeway all the time and van never catch it. Which is it maam? Or better yet, what did you write in your official report?

Yes, the Miami officer was driving like an ass (who hasn't before) but it seems to me that the trooper just had an axe to grind. The guy pulled over two minutes after she activated her lights and about a minute and a half after she actually gets behind him and turns on the siren. Don't know if you can consider that a "leading police on a high speed chase".

James Dean
10-30-2011, 21:02
Hmmm, first Trooper "Manfro" tells the officer that he scared the crap out of her because she thought the car was a stolen RMP. Later she says that she always sees that particular car hauling ass down the freeway all the time and van never catch it. Which is it maam? Or better yet, what did you write in your official report?

Yes, the Miami officer was driving like an ass (who hasn't before) but it seems to me that the trooper just had an axe to grind. The guy pulled over two minutes after she activated her lights and about a minute and a half after she actually gets behind him and turns on the siren. Don't know if you can consider that a "leading police on a high speed chase".
Glad to caught that too

Sam Spade
10-30-2011, 21:18
One of the interesting things about life is that it's possible for everyone involved in a dispute to be wrong.

CAcop
10-30-2011, 22:19
I kind of smelled pissing contest.

It happened here before I got hired. Our brass had to have a pow-wow with the local CHP captain because both sides were writing tickets to ech other.

EMTCOP
10-31-2011, 02:52
From the brief responses and general demeanor of the Miami PD officer, I got the feeling that he may be a newer officer. IF that is the case, I wonder how a veteran or ranking officer would have responded to the FHP Trooper. I think the trooper went overboard with the handcuffs. If she felt that the car was stolen, then why not treat it like a felony car stop and wait for backup, then get the driver out of the car? Her tone of voice and the fact that she approached the vehicle alone tells me that she was tired of speeding Miami Police cars. Her whole demeanor screamed "contempt of cop" to me.

The Miami officer should most definitely face some consequences if he was in fact operating the patrol car recklessly. I wasn't there, so I don't know.

Whatever the case is, I suspect that unless command staff from both agencies nips this in the bud before it gets started, things are going to get interesting between FHP and MPD.

OLY-M4gery
10-31-2011, 03:19
From the brief responses and general demeanor of the Miami PD officer, I got the feeling that he may be a newer officer. IF that is the case, I wonder how a veteran or ranking officer would have responded to the FHP Trooper. I think the trooper went overboard with the handcuffs. If she felt that the car was stolen, then why not treat it like a felony car stop and wait for backup, then get the driver out of the car? Her tone of voice and the fact that she approached the vehicle alone tells me that she was tired of speeding Miami Police cars. Her whole demeanor screamed "contempt of cop" to me.

The Miami officer should most definitely face some consequences if he was in fact operating the patrol car recklessly. I wasn't there, so I don't know.

Whatever the case is, I suspect that unless command staff from both agencies nips this in the bud before it gets started, things are going to get interesting between FHP and MPD.

You don't go from new officer to veteran or ranking officer driving 120 mph, because you are late for a job.

We have fired people for that kind of dumb.

A veteran officer uses mirrors regularly. They get out of the way of emergency vehicles.

Had that been virtually anyone else they would be in jail for attempting to elude.

A veteran officer would drive much closer to the speed limit, if they were trying to get somewhere.

COLOSHOOTR
10-31-2011, 03:52
Hmmm, first Trooper "Manfro" tells the officer that he scared the crap out of her because she thought the car was a stolen RMP. Later she says that she always sees that particular car hauling ass down the freeway all the time and van never catch it. Which is it maam? Or better yet, what did you write in your official report?

Yes, the Miami officer was driving like an ass (who hasn't before) but it seems to me that the trooper just had an axe to grind. The guy pulled over two minutes after she activated her lights and about a minute and a half after she actually gets behind him and turns on the siren. Don't know if you can consider that a "leading police on a high speed chase".

:agree:

And this is why I got so heated in the other thread.... I made my opinion clear on the other thread but It's clear this is a FHP vs MDPD pissing contest.

She obviously knew it wasn't stolen if it was a normal thing to see a marked MDPD car flying down the highway in the same area on a regular basis. If he takes this to court she'll testify that she decided to stop the Marked Police Vehicle because she thought it might have been stolen. Then later on during the cross when the defense attorney plays that part of the tape it would be interesting to hear what her answer is then... I don't know how it works at he FHP but departing from the truth/deceptive acts are offenses that can earn you termination here.

cowboywannabe
10-31-2011, 04:30
120 mph?!, not because theyre backing up a cop hollering may-day but because theyre late for work?!

James Dean
10-31-2011, 06:57
One of the interesting things about life is that it's possible for everyone involved in a dispute to be wrong.
Ok Sam I'll bite. Wrong? When you are going over 120MPH because your late to your off duty job? No lights? 15 miles out of your JD?

Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 07:11
It was a righteous pop, axe to grind or not. The MPD officer was being a punk and he got caught. No one can defend that behavior. That's the kind of crap that makes the public hate us.

As for the FHP unit, it's obvious she doesn't like locals. Stay away from her, she'll be riding a desk in a few years anyway. We all know one like her.

Sam Spade
10-31-2011, 08:10
Ok Sam I'll bite. Wrong? When you are going over 120MPH because your late to your off duty job? No lights? 15 miles out of your JD?

Yup that would be wrong.

And having seen this guy doing such, regularly, and not having nipped it sooner?

Dragoon44
10-31-2011, 09:57
Contrary to popular belief FHP brass does not like it's Troopers pulling over other officers particularly in marked units on duty. We had a "super trooper" once that pulled over a Deputy travelling thru our county on a prisoner transport. He wrote him a ticket. He ended up having to write lots of reports to FHP brass as to why he did so. And in the end he got transferred to one of the worst areas in the state because of it.

My take from what I have read is this Trooper has seen this guy running over the speed limit on previous occasions. Should she have filed a complaint with Miami PD? sure but she didn't. This day though I think the jerk was well over his usual just speeding along and she had had enough and pulled him over.

For thise that want to criticize her approach that is simply how FHP does it. they primarily work alone and don't have lots of back up available. They have traditionally been expected to just handle it themselves it's only been the last several years in which they even call in a stop and give their location and then only if they think there is going to be trouble.

Those who work with plenty of back up available may find it hard to fathom such practices but that is just the way it is and has been for FHP Troopers. When I started it was the usual practice for ONE Trooper to be covering 3 counties in rural areas on the midnight shift.

Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 10:37
They have traditionally been expected to just handle it themselves it's only been the last several years in which they even call in a stop and give their location and then only if they think there is going to be trouble.

Those who work with plenty of back up available may find it hard to fathom such practices but that is just the way it is and has been for FHP Troopers. When I started it was the usual practice for ONE Trooper to be covering 3 counties in rural areas on the midnight shift.

That's the way it is here. Our troopers don't even call in their stops unless they think there will be an issue.

SAR
10-31-2011, 11:01
For thise that want to criticize her approach that is simply how FHP does it. they primarily work alone and don't have lots of back up available. They have traditionally been expected to just handle it themselves it's only been the last several years in which they even call in a stop and give their location and then only if they think there is going to be trouble.

Those who work with plenty of back up available may find it hard to fathom such practices but that is just the way it is and has been for FHP Troopers. When I started it was the usual practice for ONE Trooper to be covering 3 counties in rural areas on the midnight shift.

I get that. And I pretty much got that from the start. I was mainly playing devil's advocate when I stated she should have waited for back-up to arrive. My feeling all along after watching the video several times, is that she damn well knew what she had (which was an off-duty copper) and that she went up knowing full well what she was going to do, which was humiliate the copper and show him who was boss.

Me, sure I have pulled over off-duty coppers. Sure, they were acting like idiots. Did I yell and act like some ****** myself? Nope. What purpose would it serve? Sometimes it's worse getting a quiet stare down from a 30 year supervisor instead. I think it works better when they are not sure whether I am going to report them to their chain or just let it go. This female trooper, she blew her wad right up front and there was nowhere left to go after that but downhill....

CW Mock
10-31-2011, 11:35
That's the way it is here. Our troopers don't even call in their stops unless they think there will be an issue.

That is amazing to me. We call in all our stops now, and generally do a good job of browbeating the occasional clown that doesn't until he/she does.

ETA ...

I agree with SAR above. She probably knew full well what was up, and decided to act like a clown anyways.

Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 11:36
That is amazing to me. We call in all our stops now, and generally do a good job of browbeating the occasional clown that doesn't until he/she does.

I honestly think that's the way they are trained to do it. I've never asked one though. As for me, by policy (dispatch policy) we are directed to call in each stop. Where I work the road, we do it via CAD.

Dragoon44
10-31-2011, 12:56
I get that. And I pretty much got that from the start. I was mainly playing devil's advocate when I stated she should have waited for back-up to arrive. My feeling all along after watching the video several times, is that she damn well knew what she had (which was an off-duty copper) and that she went up knowing full well what she was going to do, which was humiliate the copper and show him who was boss.

Me, sure I have pulled over off-duty coppers. Sure, they were acting like idiots. Did I yell and act like some ****** myself? Nope. What purpose would it serve? Sometimes it's worse getting a quiet stare down from a 30 year supervisor instead. I think it works better when they are not sure whether I am going to report them to their chain or just let it go. This female trooper, she blew her wad right up front and there was nowhere left to go after that but downhill....

No argument there and for the most part there was always some friction between city cops, County and FHP. primarily because FHP trooper usually had a chip on their shoulder and thought they were the "best of the best". (and that is what they tell them at the academy). It goes without saying what city and county cops think about that attitude coming from someone whose sole duties is writing tickets and investigating accidents.

4949shooter
10-31-2011, 13:03
No argument there and for the most part there was always some friction between city cops, County and FHP. primarily because FHP trooper usually had a chip on their shoulder and thought they were the "best of the best". (and that is what they tell them at the academy). It goes without saying what city and county cops think about that attitude coming from someone whose sole duties is writing tickets and investigating accidents.

So THIS is what you think of us? :tongueout: :supergrin:

I understand the FHP primarily work alone. Even here in NJ our backup may be ten miles away, but it sounds a whole lot better than what FHP troopers have to deal with.

On the other hand, since she works alone without backup nearby, I would think this is all the more reason to use high risk stop techniques rather than approach a "felony" stop with gun drawn sans cover.

Though again, as has been suggested, she knew what she had.

cpelliott
10-31-2011, 13:17
Yes, the Miami officer was driving like an ass (who hasn't before)
Driving like an ass is 90 MPH on a road with light traffic. 120 MPH with constant weaving is in a different ballpark.

Dragoon44
10-31-2011, 14:09
So THIS is what you think of us? :tongueout: :supergrin:

.

"Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful."

Proverbs 27:6


:tongueout::wavey:

EMTCOP
10-31-2011, 17:13
You don't go from new officer to veteran or ranking officer driving 120 mph, because you are late for a job.

We have fired people for that kind of dumb.

A veteran officer uses mirrors regularly. They get out of the way of emergency vehicles.

Had that been virtually anyone else they would be in jail for attempting to elude.

A veteran officer would drive much closer to the speed limit, if they were trying to get somewhere.


You should come hang out where I work sometime. :)

denn1911
10-31-2011, 18:29
On the other hand, since she works alone without backup nearby, I would think this is all the more reason to use high risk stop techniques rather than approach a "felony" stop with gun drawn sans cover.

Though again, as has been suggested, she knew what she had.

I've been in Law Enforcement since 1996, and this is a very bad situation. Local and State Police have their little power spats, and I've only heard of one other situation this bad. I believe that she had an axe to grind, but this is not the right way to solve this issue.

She approaches the marked cruiser with her pistol drawn if fear of her life? She had no cover! If there was a bad guy in the cruiser, she's left in the open to receive incoming fire. She's lucky that he was so cooperative. I know guys who would Not have let her cuff them, and supervisors would be on scene asap. I hate to see these things occur.

PuroMexicano
10-31-2011, 18:46
He should've stopped RIGHT AWAY, maybe that would've been the difference between an ass-chewing/ticket and being put in handcuffs.

Can't fault her for being EXTRA safe, but maybe a radio call to Miami PD, could have avoided the gun drawn/no-cover and handcuffs.

Guess MMQB'ing is all we can do since we weren't there... :whistling:

Bruce M
10-31-2011, 18:50
...I understand the FHP primarily work alone. ...

This is a substantially urban area and while another trooper may have been a substantial distance away, an officer from one of the municipalities or the county on duty (or on way to or from work) was most likely seconds to a minute or three away.

BL33D 4 M3
10-31-2011, 19:22
They are both wrong...IMO.

Naelbis
10-31-2011, 19:31
Bad decision making all around...this is going to end up turning into a nasty pissing match unless the brass have a nice sitdown and hash it out. And both officers are going to have some serious explaining to do...

S.O.Interceptor
10-31-2011, 19:45
She did what she felt she need to do. I now expect to hear/read about FHP vehicles being stopped and receiving tickets in Miami.


I kind of smelled pissing contest.

It happened here before I got hired. Our brass had to have a pow-wow with the local CHP captain because both sides were writing tickets to ech other.

That's how it was in Texas long ago.

Fortunately that can no longer happen here. No on duty officer has more authority than another. A city/state cop can't decide to stop/cite/arrest/etc one of my guys and we can't do it to them.

Marked car violating a traffic law = contact that agency, see if there is a justifiable reason, and then file a complaint if you feel it is necessary. But trying to make a traffic stop on it or placing hands on another officer does not happen.

As a sergeant I occasionally get these calls. If there is a reason my guy was speeding/ran a light/etc I tell the officer complaining why it was done, and if there isn't, I either talk to my guy, or possibly pull the hard drive off their camera and investigate if it's a really egregious offense.

Punishment can range from saying "don't do that again", to a write up, suspension, or termination.

dorkweed
10-31-2011, 19:58
Her whole demeanor screamed "contempt of cop" to me.






Does that make her a "cop hater"??!!

MVD
10-31-2011, 20:10
:agree:

And this is why I got so heated in the other thread.... I made my opinion clear on the other thread but It's clear this is a FHP vs MDPD pissing contest.

She obviously knew it wasn't stolen if it was a normal thing to see a marked MDPD car flying down the highway in the same area on a regular basis. If he takes this to court she'll testify that she decided to stop the Marked Police Vehicle because she thought it might have been stolen. Then later on during the cross when the defense attorney plays that part of the tape it would be interesting to hear what her answer is then... I don't know how it works at he FHP but departing from the truth/deceptive acts are offenses that can earn you termination here.

Yes sir, lack of candor under oath or on official reports will get you canned up my way as well. MPD officer definitly needs a good kick in the sack, citation and a couple of days on the bricks. However the actions of the FHP trooper were particularly disturbing. Pissing contest or no, she pulled a weapon on a fellow law enforcement officer. She knew 100% that she was pulling over another cop (by her own statement) but felt the need to stick a gun in his face and thats what chaps my rear more than anything.

beatcop
10-31-2011, 20:23
I wouldn't attempt to pull another cruiser over. My radio isn't compatible with others, so I have no idea what the other guy has going on. If I thought there was the slightest issue of a stolen cruiser, I'd get a look at the guys uniform and end it or call in and ask if so & so had something going on.

I would not draw my gun on a cop over a traffic offense.

I would not make a custodial arrest...grab the guys name and move on.

These two should be promoted to Idiot First Class asap.

4949shooter
10-31-2011, 20:53
I've been in Law Enforcement since 1996, and this is a very bad situation. Local and State Police have their little power spats, and I've only heard of one other situation this bad. I believe that she had an axe to grind, but this is not the right way to solve this issue.

She approaches the marked cruiser with her pistol drawn if fear of her life? She had no cover! If there was a bad guy in the cruiser, she's left in the open to receive incoming fire. She's lucky that he was so cooperative. I know guys who would Not have let her cuff them, and supervisors would be on scene asap. I hate to see these things occur.

Agree 100%

This is a substantially urban area and while another trooper may have been a substantial distance away, an officer from one of the municipalities or the county on duty (or on way to or from work) was most likely seconds to a minute or three away.

Agreed. I was going off Dragoon's post in that FHP are used to working alone. If you were to read some of my earlier posts on this and the other threads you would understand that I think she handled this entire incident wrong, tactics being just one of her shortcomings.

Bruce M
11-01-2011, 05:38
... My radio isn't compatible with others, so I have no idea what the other guy has going on. ...

Sigh. Not to hijack the thread, but with the billions that have been spent on interoperability, it still saddens and frightens me that two officers next to each other on the same roadway may not be able talk to each other without rolling down the windows and yelling.

Agree 100%



Agreed. I was going off Dragoon's post in that FHP are used to working alone. If you were to read some of my earlier posts on this and the other threads you would understand that I think she handled this entire incident wrong, tactics being just one of her shortcomings.


I read your other posts, along with others in the ~ three different threads here (and there was at least one other thread that vaporized.) I am just reinforcing that there was not a need for the chosen single approach.

Last night in the news the (interim) Chief and Mayor weighed in and seemed less than amused with the officer, however the department has left him working pending the outcome of the traffic case.

ULVER
11-01-2011, 19:01
Lopez is back at work, and his shark says he did nothing criminal. :faint:

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Attorney-for-Cop-Arrested-by-Trooper-Says-He-Didnt-Do-Anything-Wrong-133041778.html

FOP is backing him, poo-pooing the trooper.

http://www.local10.com/news/29643842/detail.html#xdm_e=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.local10.com&xdm_c=default5871&xdm_p=1&

Morris
11-01-2011, 21:48
This will not end well.

nikerret
11-01-2011, 21:57
I understand the FHP primarily work alone. Even here in NJ our backup may be ten miles away.....

Wow, only ten miles. If there's another LE unit within ten miles, it's like there is backup there.

Sigh. Not to hijack the thread, but with the billions that have been spent on interoperability, it still saddens and frightens me that two officers next to each other on the same roadway may not be able talk to each other without rolling down the windows and yelling.


When we had a tornado wipe out one of your towns, I was the Operations Chief for the first 13 hours, or so. I had to keep three radio to talk to MOST of the peopke we had (just LE).



__--


The rest has already been discussed.

CAcop
11-01-2011, 21:58
This thing is getting uglier by the minute. IF he fights it she is not going to look good by continuing after being called off. God help her if one of the reasons why she was called off was because she said 120 mph and they can prove it was less than that.

I have a feeling this will be resolved after 3-6 months when the press has moved on to other things.

SAR
11-01-2011, 23:15
Lopez is back at work, and his shark says he did nothing criminal. :faint:

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Attorney-for-Cop-Arrested-by-Trooper-Says-He-Didnt-Do-Anything-Wrong-133041778.html

FOP is backing him, poo-pooing the trooper.

http://www.local10.com/news/29643842/detail.html#xdm_e=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.local10.com&xdm_c=default5871&xdm_p=1&

I could swear that these people are reading Coptalk... isn't this what I (we) have been saying all along?

Ortiz, the vice president of the order, questioned the FHP trooper's motives, writing that she only wanted to cite a City of Miami police officer.

"On the dash cam video, the FHP trooper is heard saying, "This is not a first time occurrence with y'all. Y'all come from that way all the time -- this Miami police car -- and we never catch it."

Ortiz also questioned why the FHP trooper, if she thought the vehicle was stolen, didn't conduct a felony stop and wait for back-up. He said that Lopez was not driving 120 mph." :whistling:

opelwasp
11-02-2011, 01:23
The kids job is toast at that department for sure, but I doubt the charges will fly. It was an unlawful arrest. At the point she was told to terminate she was done. If you watch the video, after the termination she is now violating the same speed laws he is, including code 3 policy, insubordination, and reckless driving. :shocked:

So she violates the law to make an arrest? Ya, that's going to be a no go.:wow:

DaBigBR
11-02-2011, 10:05
The kids job is toast at that department for sure, but I doubt the charges will fly. It was an unlawful arrest. At the point she was told to terminate she was done. If you watch the video, after the termination she is now violating the same speed laws he is, including code 3 policy, insubordination, and reckless driving. :shocked:

So she violates the law to make an arrest? Ya, that's going to be a no go.:wow:

Huh?

Department policy and orders are for internal use only and cannot be used to establish criminal or civil liability. The fact that she was told to terminate does not remove her authority to act as a peace officer.

Manimal
11-02-2011, 10:11
If she thought it was stolen she needs to work on her felony stop skills...

Dragoon44
11-02-2011, 10:24
Huh?

Department policy and orders are for internal use only and cannot be used to establish criminal or civil liability. The fact that she was told to terminate does not remove her authority to act as a peace officer.

+1 I know California is weird but I didn't realize that supervisors could void state statutes on their own authority.

:rofl:

rookie1
11-02-2011, 10:26
Maybe he thought he was getting pulled over by someone who just stole a cop car so he kept going. What if he got out of the car and drew down on her, thank god he didnt, but what if.

Dragoon44
11-02-2011, 11:22
Maybe he thought he was getting pulled over by someone who just stole a cop car so he kept going. What if he got out of the car and drew down on her, thank god he didnt, but what if.

Right because their was no reason he would suspect that a real cop was pulling him over or anything. So he was doing around 50 or so over the speed limit, so what? he's a cop! Lord of the road, God's personal representative on earth and not subject to the same laws as mere mortals are!

:rofl::rofl:

whatsupglock
11-02-2011, 11:39
The guy's an idiot. The Miami officer pi**ed in FHP's pool. She was the chlorine. She was doing her job, he wasn't doing his.

Chuck54
11-02-2011, 12:33
Did someone write her mommy a ticket ?

SgtScott31
11-02-2011, 12:40
The kids job is toast at that department for sure, but I doubt the charges will fly. It was an unlawful arrest. At the point she was told to terminate she was done. If you watch the video, after the termination she is now violating the same speed laws he is, including code 3 policy, insubordination, and reckless driving. :shocked:

So she violates the law to make an arrest? Ya, that's going to be a no go.:wow:

Unlawful arrest? We violate traffic laws to make arrests every day. It's not unlawful by any means. If she violated agency policy by continuing the pursuit then that would fall under administrative punishment. It has nothing to do with the criminal actions of another. I haven't posted in here before. How many are actual LEOs that know what they're talking about?

09crue
11-02-2011, 13:09
120mph because he's running late for his off-duty job,he deserves to be ticketed..the trooper handled herself just fine.

Wil Ufgood
11-02-2011, 13:21
Well, at least she didn't shoot out his tires. :supergrin:

nikerret
11-02-2011, 14:57
I haven't posted in here before. How many are actual LEOs that know what they're talking about?

:rofl::faint:

rookie1
11-02-2011, 15:36
Right because their was no reason he would suspect that a real cop was pulling him over or anything. So he was doing around 50 or so over the speed limit, so what? he's a cop! Lord of the road, God's personal representative on earth and not subject to the same laws as mere mortals are!

:rofl::rofl:

I only said what I said because the trooper said she thought the car was stolen, when the end she said it comes through here every day fast. She knew it wasn't stolen just like he knew he was getting pulled over.

Con43
11-02-2011, 15:41
Unlawful arrest? We violate traffic laws to make arrests every day. It's not unlawful by any means. If she violated agency policy by continuing the pursuit then that would fall under administrative punishment. It has nothing to do with the criminal actions of another. I haven't posted in here before. How many are actual LEOs that know what they're talking about?


Now it's going to get good............. :shocked: :rofl: :rofl:

ray9898
11-02-2011, 16:07
Something does not add up. If he was running 120mph I wonder how fast her video system shows her driving to catch up. I guarantee I will not catch anyone who passes me at 120mph and continues to 'flee' in any short amount of time.

Bruce M
11-02-2011, 16:46
...the trooper handled herself just fine.

:dunno::shakehead:

StarfoxHowl
11-08-2011, 17:57
I don't know if this has been posted on another thread, but this is a link to the entire 49 minute stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFY0GqN0AeQ

opelwasp
11-09-2011, 01:05
How many are actual LEOs that know what they're talking about?

I'm an actual LEO and know what I'm talking about.:wavey:
If I pulled the same stunt she did, I'd get days on the beach at a minimum and likely terminated for violating Code 3 policy, reckless driving, and insubordination. Also the DA here would most assuredly kick this thing back at me, for the reasons I would be disciplined for. Arrest no, detention yes. Handcuff him, remove his weapon, and place him in the back of my car (arrest=he does not feel he is free to go), nope. Detain him for a traffic violation, cite him, and tell him to slow the hell down, yup. Then report the incident to his agency.

A lot of the problem I have for her actions is that she did not treat the situation like it was a dangerous one. No high risk stop, no officer safety concerns, and not waiting for back up.

ArmaGlock
11-09-2011, 03:24
Sure, he was driving too fast. BUT, claiming that a speeding police car automatically makes her think it is stolen, is BULL****, especially since she says herself Miami P.D. is always hauling ass through that area. Also if a police car gets stolen a BOLO is put out statewide in a hurry.

As far as the "high speed chase," more BS. He stopped in 2 minutes and hit his brakes and tried to move over at least a few times. And while we are discussing officer safety, she claims she didn't know who he was, could have been a stolen police car, etc. OKAY, so how does the Miami Officer know that she is really a trooper and not some clown trying to kill a police??? It's not normal, safe, or the right thing to do for one marked car to stop another marked car, get a car number and call his supervision. This leads me to another issue. The Miami PD officer needs to evaluate his officer safety practices. IF (and Lord I pray it never happens) another police car tries to stop me while I'm in my marked unit, there is NO WAY IN HELL that I am going to stay seated in my vehicle while they walk up behind me and I'm going to wait a few seconds or maybe minutes to stop while I evaluate and plan on how and where I'm going to stop, taking into consideration the tactical issues that could arise. I will be exiting my vehicle in a hurry and meeting them in the street to make sure I'm not about to get ambushed. And IF you point a gun at me, you better have a ******* good ****ing reason to do so and be ready to pay when you don't (this is not a threat, it is what it is). It's also doubtful that I will let them handcuff me. She should have never expected him to stop immediately, I believe him when he says he had no idea she was trying to stop him. Come on guys, who would expect this to happen??

And those of you praising this trooper and saying she did the right thing, GET REAL!!!!!!!! Like I said, he was speeding and was out of line for driving that fast to an off-duty gig, but we've all done it, he wasn't doing 120 when he passed her. She is a an idiot that has no business being a law enforcement officer. She has disgraced her agency, an agency that already has a terrible reputation within the state for interagency relations. They are notorious for ticketing off-duty officers for minor speeding infractions and being total dicks in the process. Professional courtesy should be extended 99% of the time when it comes to traffic infractions. I don't give a damn what the public thinks, they don't understand that the officer you ticket today could be the officer saving your life tomorrow.

Roadkill_751
11-09-2011, 05:37
Well, at least she didn't shoot out his tires. :supergrin:

Also she didn't PIT him either.......:yawn:

Chuck54
11-09-2011, 11:08
Guess that is one way to get transferred out of Miami

SgtScott31
11-09-2011, 15:48
I'm an actual LEO and know what I'm talking about.:wavey:
If I pulled the same stunt she did, I'd get days on the beach at a minimum and likely terminated for violating Code 3 policy, reckless driving, and insubordination. Also the DA here would most assuredly kick this thing back at me, for the reasons I would be disciplined for. Arrest no, detention yes. Handcuff him, remove his weapon, and place him in the back of my car (arrest=he does not feel he is free to go), nope. Detain him for a traffic violation, cite him, and tell him to slow the hell down, yup. Then report the incident to his agency.

A lot of the problem I have for her actions is that she did not treat the situation like it was a dangerous one. No high risk stop, no officer safety concerns, and not waiting for back up.

No one here said it wouldn't be an agency violation if she continued to "pursue" when she was told not to. No one here said she would not get in trouble. My point is, it was not an unlawful citation and if she had decided to arrest him, it would not have been an unlawful arrest just because she violated agency policy or broke the speed limit in the process of catching him. Like I mentioned in my first post, we violate traffic laws every day in the process of citing or arresting someone.

SgtScott31
11-09-2011, 15:58
Sure, he was driving too fast. BUT, claiming that a speeding police car automatically makes her think it is stolen, is BULL****, especially since she says herself Miami P.D. is always hauling ass through that area. Also if a police car gets stolen a BOLO is put out statewide in a hurry.

As far as the "high speed chase," more BS. He stopped in 2 minutes and hit his brakes and tried to move over at least a few times. And while we are discussing officer safety, she claims she didn't know who he was, could have been a stolen police car, etc. OKAY, so how does the Miami Officer know that she is really a trooper and not some clown trying to kill a police??? It's not normal, safe, or the right thing to do for one marked car to stop another marked car, get a car number and call his supervision. This leads me to another issue. The Miami PD officer needs to evaluate his officer safety practices. IF (and Lord I pray it never happens) another police car tries to stop me while I'm in my marked unit, there is NO WAY IN HELL that I am going to stay seated in my vehicle while they walk up behind me and I'm going to wait a few seconds or maybe minutes to stop while I evaluate and plan on how and where I'm going to stop, taking into consideration the tactical issues that could arise. I will be exiting my vehicle in a hurry and meeting them in the street to make sure I'm not about to get ambushed. And IF you point a gun at me, you better have a ******* good ****ing reason to do so and be ready to pay when you don't (this is not a threat, it is what it is). It's also doubtful that I will let them handcuff me. She should have never expected him to stop immediately, I believe him when he says he had no idea she was trying to stop him. Come on guys, who would expect this to happen??

And those of you praising this trooper and saying she did the right thing, GET REAL!!!!!!!! Like I said, he was speeding and was out of line for driving that fast to an off-duty gig, but we've all done it, he wasn't doing 120 when he passed her. She is a an idiot that has no business being a law enforcement officer. She has disgraced her agency, an agency that already has a terrible reputation within the state for interagency relations. They are notorious for ticketing off-duty officers for minor speeding infractions and being total dicks in the process. Professional courtesy should be extended 99% of the time when it comes to traffic infractions. I don't give a damn what the public thinks, they don't understand that the officer you ticket today could be the officer saving your life tomorrow.

This is wrong in so many ways I wouldn't know where to begin. I will say it's apparent that you believe anyone in a marked vehicle has the right to do anything regardless of the risks they put everyone else at. Sorry, but there is A LINE to draw. As far as "we've all done it," I have never driven that fast to anything off-duty and I'm not aware of any of my counterparts in my agency that have done so. Why do you think most agencies are going to recording devices in the vehicles to monitor your speeds? Anyone who thinks that the Miami officer's actions were "minor" is probably just as much as a liability to their agency as he is. I don't think that this FHP Trooper did not extend professional courtesy, but it's only going so far. I'm not going to put my job, salary, and livelihood at risk just to cut a guy a break that's driving like a complete idiot, DUI, or some other offense that is a serious risk to everyone around him. So the question is, where DO YOU draw the line? From the sound of your post, only when the involved officer's recklessness has killed someone does it appear you feel action should be taken. I'm not waiting that long. The FHP trooper had seen these vehicles traveling these speeds and turned the other way as most officers would. Once it became a pattern, she finally decided to put an end to it. While I don't agree with some tactics involved in the stop, I'm not in disagreement with the citation at all.

As far as thinking you're being ambushed by a LEO impersonator who pulls you over, that's the most far-fetched thing I've ever heard of. I could probably show you a dozen links where a LE vehicle was stolen. Feel free to provide a link or two of a situation where someone in a stolen police car actually attempted to pull over a real LEO and "ambush" him/her. As far as I know I have yet to hear of a perp who stole a police car go seeking out other police officers in it.

kilo905
11-09-2011, 21:38
Reading threads like this make me realize just how different policing is in South Florida. Here is a recap of today's events in this ongoing saga:

MIAMI -
A Florida Highway Patrol trooper's patrol car was found covered in feces Sunday, and police are investigating whether the incident was connected to a recent controversy.

http://www.local10.com/news/FHP-cruiser-found-coated-in-human-feces/-/1717324/4699978/-/36nsvlz/-/index.html

Here are the pictures:

http://www.local10.com/news/-/1717324/4703712/-/12ch3u5/-/index.html

MPD and FHP have been going at it for over 20 years now.

SgtScott31
11-09-2011, 22:52
What a show of professionalism by all involved. Who knows who did this to the vehicle, but as far as the "battle" between the LE agencies, that looks great for the rest of us.

EMTCOP
11-10-2011, 00:47
No matter what is going on between MPD and FHP, this is unconscionable. It scares me to think that a police officer might have done that, because it takes someone who is severely mentally unbalanced to do that. THAT person needs to be in the BACK of a patrol car ASAP.

ArmaGlock
11-10-2011, 05:21
This is wrong in so many ways I wouldn't know where to begin. I will say it's apparent that you believe anyone in a marked vehicle has the right to do anything regardless of the risks they put everyone else at. Sorry, but there is A LINE to draw. As far as "we've all done it," I have never driven that fast to anything off-duty and I'm not aware of any of my counterparts in my agency that have done so. Why do you think most agencies are going to recording devices in the vehicles to monitor your speeds? Anyone who thinks that the Miami officer's actions were "minor" is probably just as much as a liability to their agency as he is. I don't think that this FHP Trooper did not extend professional courtesy, but it's only going so far. I'm not going to put my job, salary, and livelihood at risk just to cut a guy a break that's driving like a complete idiot, DUI, or some other offense that is a serious risk to everyone around him. So the question is, where DO YOU draw the line? From the sound of your post, only when the involved officer's recklessness has killed someone does it appear you feel action should be taken. I'm not waiting that long. The FHP trooper had seen these vehicles traveling these speeds and turned the other way as most officers would. Once it became a pattern, she finally decided to put an end to it. While I don't agree with some tactics involved in the stop, I'm not in disagreement with the citation at all.

As far as thinking you're being ambushed by a LEO impersonator who pulls you over, that's the most far-fetched thing I've ever heard of. I could probably show you a dozen links where a LE vehicle was stolen. Feel free to provide a link or two of a situation where someone in a stolen police car actually attempted to pull over a real LEO and "ambush" him/her. As far as I know I have yet to hear of a perp who stole a police car go seeking out other police officers in it.

Easyyy. What are we saying is so serious? Was he doing 120 mph when he passed her?? It doesn't look like it and his initial speed was never revealed. It was also never confirmed that he was ever travelling 120 mph. And he stopped after 2 minutes when she got behind him. If he ever reached those speeds during this so-called pursuit then he was absolutely wrong. And like I said, he was still wrong for what he did, but I don't feel that his initial speed warranted the trooper acting like she did. Her chasing him down was an overreaction, PERIOD.

I said it in my post, I'm not condoning what he did. And when I say we've all done it, I meant we've all broke the speed limit. Have I driven 120 mph to anywhere other than an emergency call? NO, but like I said it doesn't appear that he was traveling that fast when he initially passed her.

As far as it being far fetched that a police impersonator would try to stop a police car and ambush a cop, sure it is. I was feeding off of how ****ing ridiculous her claim that she thought his car was stolen was. So now every speeding police car is stolen??? That's far fetched. No BOLO was out for a stolen cruiser. Having said that, the mentality that "it's never happened before" is a good way to approach this job and get your self killed, so let's ease up with calling each other liabilities to their agency... Okay, so it's never happened before and it would take some balls and it might not ever happen, BUT who would have thought some turd would walk into a police station and start shooting http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41320219/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/detroit-police-release-graphic-video-precinct-shooting/? Just sayin....

As far as her tactics, I could go on all day, but I have a 20 month old yanking on my arm. This video is what scares me about that her pointing a gun at him after acting nuts like she was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDfNV9bJoSg

ricklee4570
11-10-2011, 05:51
Everyone should be held to the same accountability standards. My son disagrees, as a new police officer he feels the cops should be held to a higher standard setting the example for the rest of us.

PinkoCommie
11-10-2011, 06:12
A bunch of moronic 12 year olds. Grow the **** up.

Electrikkoolaid
11-10-2011, 07:48
Pulling him for driving like a punk? Yes. (Hell yes, in fact.)

Gunpoint and cuffing him? No way.

Now that this has become so public, she has likely committed committed career suicide.

Dragoon44
11-10-2011, 08:11
I believe him when he says he had no idea she was trying to stop him. Come on guys, who would expect this to happen??

I for one have no problem believing he just couldn't grasp that HE was being pulled over.

Where we differ is how we interpret that, you feel it is entirely understandable, I think it reflect gross stupidity and monumental arrogance on his part.


Was he doing 120 mph when he passed her?? It doesn't look like it and his initial speed was never revealed. It was also never confirmed that he was ever travelling 120 mph. And he stopped after 2 minutes when she got behind him. If he ever reached those speeds during this so-called pursuit then he was absolutely wrong. And like I said, he was still wrong for what he did, but I don't feel that his initial speed warranted the trooper acting like she did. Her chasing him down was an overreaction, PERIOD.

Why don't we depart from your subjective feelings and stick with facts, the incident began at mile marker 62 it ended at mile marker 50. so if he wasn't really booking it why did it take her at least 9-10 miles just to overtake him? ( notice I didn't say to get him stopped, since he ran nearly two miles with her right on his tail changing lanes with him and all)

We don't know his exact speed or hers, but we can tell from the dash came she was nailing it to overtake him. If he had been doing anywhere near the speed limit it would not have taken 9-10 miles to overtake him.

Dragoon44
11-10-2011, 08:14
Pulling him for driving like a punk? Yes. (Hell yes, in fact.)

Gunpoint and cuffing him? No way.

Now that this has become so public, she has likely committed committed career suicide.

If they still deal with"super troopers" the way they used to she can look forward to a transfer to the worst area they can find.

Dukeboy01
11-10-2011, 08:47
We don't know his exact speed or hers, but we can tell from the dash came she was nailing it to overtake him. If he had been doing anywhere near the speed limit it would not have taken 9-10 miles to overtake him.

Nailing it to overtake him after having been ordered to terminate her pursuit.

Just saying...

SgtScott31
11-10-2011, 12:59
Nailing it to overtake him after having been ordered to terminate her pursuit.

Just saying...

It's normally not a pursuit until the violator knows he's being pursued. Catching up to someone and pursuing are two different things.

Easyyy. What are we saying is so serious? Was he doing 120 mph when he passed her?? It doesn't look like it and his initial speed was never revealed. It was also never confirmed that he was ever travelling 120 mph. And he stopped after 2 minutes when she got behind him. If he ever reached those speeds during this so-called pursuit then he was absolutely wrong. And like I said, he was still wrong for what he did, but I don't feel that his initial speed warranted the trooper acting like she did. Her chasing him down was an overreaction, PERIOD.

The speeds were reckless. There's no doubt about it. If it wasn't 120, it was close. Regardless of 90, 100, or 120, it was still way too fast. I don't have a problem with the trooper doing what she had to do to find out what was going on. She's not going to know who the person is passing her at those speeds, so a call in to the PD wasn't going to solve anything.

As far as it being far fetched that a police impersonator would try to stop a police car and ambush a cop, sure it is. I was feeding off of how ****ing ridiculous her claim that she thought his car was stolen was. So now every speeding police car is stolen??? That's far fetched. No BOLO was out for a stolen cruiser. Having said that, the mentality that "it's never happened before" is a good way to approach this job and get your self killed, so let's ease up with calling each other liabilities to their agency... Okay, so it's never happened before and it would take some balls and it might not ever happen, BUT who would have thought some turd would walk into a police station and start shooting http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41320219...inct-shooting/? Just sayin....

I don't approach anything as unsuspecting, but you say her speculation is far-fetched regarding a stolen PD car. I highly doubt FHP monitors MPD's frequency. I'm sure an agency the size of MPD has multiple frequencies depending on the zone you work in. I don't think an idea of a stolen police car is too far fetched. It has happened quite a bit. My point is, you threw in your first post that her believing the car was stolen was BS. It has happened plenty of times before involving agencies across the U.S. Most of the time involving a suspect who was able to manipulate their handcuffs and take off in the vehicle. I don't know of one instance where someone took a police car just to stop another officer to cause harm. Can it happen? yes, anything can happen. Is it on the same page as someone stealing a car in general to avoid arrest? I don't believe so.

I think it is wrong and a crap stain to the LE community for so many who are attempting to paint the FHP Trooper in a worse light than the MPD officer. It's giving a foul taste to the rest of the public. The media has been quoting threads straight from the o.com forum and others about what LE is saying. I think it's ridiculous that LEOs across the country are saying what she did was wrong or trying to point out a bunch of administrative (or tactical) related errors to move the light away from the officer that really needs to lose his job. I'm tired of so many taking only one sentence to disagree with the MPD officer's actions, but writing two paragraphs about the FHP Trooper and how she was wrong.

When it comes down to more serious disciplinary actions, the agency heads are not going to be after the trooper's head.

Dragoon44
11-10-2011, 13:57
It's normally not a pursuit until the violator knows he's being pursued. Catching up to someone and pursuing are two different things.

And this is in fact FHP's policy which defines a "pursuit" as pursuing a fleeing suspect.

By their policy she was not in a pursuit while attempting to overtake him.

Dukeboy01
11-10-2011, 18:39
And this is in fact FHP's policy which defines a "pursuit" as pursuing a fleeing suspect.

By their policy she was not in a pursuit while attempting to overtake him.

Holy hair- splitting, Batman. Was she or was she not ordered to stop her spirited following or her "attempt to overtake" the vehicle in question?

Answer from the long video: Yes.

Did she defy that order and continue to follow the vehicle in question in a manner even more spirited then she had been doing without the benefit of her lights and sirens?

Answer from the long video: Yes.

FHP is free to interpret their policies however they see fit. In my jurisdiction what was shown on the video from the moment after the MPD cruiser blew her doors off was a pursuit.

Dragoon44
11-10-2011, 19:24
FHP is free to interpret their policies however they see fit. In my jurisdiction what was shown on the video from the moment after the MPD cruiser blew her doors off was a pursuit.

well since she is a FHP trooper I imagine how FHP interprets their policies is pretty relevant. And whether or not YOUR dept differentiates between a pursuit and "overtaking" is largely irrelevant in terms of what she did or did not do.

From what you and others are saying it sounds like your Depts equate high speed automatically equals pursuit..

Dukeboy01
11-10-2011, 19:55
I think it is wrong and a crap stain to the LE community for so many who are attempting to paint the FHP Trooper in a worse light than the MPD officer. It's giving a foul taste to the rest of the public. The media has been quoting threads straight from the o.com forum and others about what LE is saying. I think it's ridiculous that LEOs across the country are saying what she did was wrong or trying to point out a bunch of administrative (or tactical) related errors to move the light away from the officer that really needs to lose his job. I'm tired of so many taking only one sentence to disagree with the MPD officer's actions, but writing two paragraphs about the FHP Trooper and how she was wrong.

When it comes down to more serious disciplinary actions, the agency heads are not going to be after the trooper's head.

The MPD's actions are pretty self- evident. How many sentences should it take to say that he was wrong and should be disciplined? I'm not aware of anyone claiming that he shouldn't be punished. I certainly don't think that the MPD officer doesn't deserve to be punished, although I did express the opinion in one of the other threads that I would be happy to see the Trooper punished more severely than the MPD officer.

Why? Because, IMO, her actions are more wrong and they're not going to get the scrutiny they deserve from the civilian media. Let's go back to the (complete) tape, not the edited version being shown by the media:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFY0GqN0AeQ

Up until about 3:00 minutes into the video, she was 100% in the right. The problem is that at 2:55 she's told to stop her... pursuit/ "attempt to overtake"/ emergency driving exercise/ whatever phrase you want to use to describe a police officer using their lights and sirens in order to warn other motorists sharing the roadway that they are exceeding the speed limit and disregarding other applicable traffic in order to accomplish a specific law enforcement objective.

Then, at 3:08 in the video, she punches it. After being ordered to disregard. After turning off her lights and sirens. She accelerates to speeds as high or higher than she has driven at any previous point in the video. She cuts across multiple lanes of traffic. She drives like a complete and total idiot.

At this point she is violating the exact same laws that the MPD officer is violating and she's disobeying a direct order to boot. From 3:08 to 4:46 she is as much of a danger to the general public as the MPD officer and she's being insubordinate to boot. How does she not deserve to be issued the same citation as the MPD officer, minus the attempting to elude, as well as face internal disciplinary sanctions for disobeying a direct order?

Dukeboy01
11-10-2011, 19:57
well since she is a FHP trooper I imagine how FHP interprets their policies is pretty relevant. And whether or not YOUR dept differentiates between a pursuit and "overtaking" is largely irrelevant in terms of what she did or did not do.

From what you and others are saying it sounds like your Depts equate high speed automatically equals pursuit..

What's FHP's policy on subordinates failing to obey lawful orders? That should be extremely relevant.

Dragoon44
11-10-2011, 21:48
What's FHP's policy on subordinates failing to obey lawful orders? That should be extremely relevant.

FHP like most State LE agencies is para military with a vengeance, insubordination is usually a termination offense.

Morris
11-11-2011, 09:35
Yes, but she'll still walk away with a check when she files the lawsuit for wrongful termination or somesuch. What a damned charlie foxtrot this has been.

Dragoon44
11-11-2011, 10:06
Yes, but she'll still walk away with a check when she files the lawsuit for wrongful termination or somesuch. What a damned charlie foxtrot this has been.

I have yet to see any statements issued by FHP indicating she was in violation of any of their policies.

What I have seen here is a lot of folks passing judgment according to THEIR depts. policies rather than FHP's

w01
11-11-2011, 10:48
(Disclaimer - this is my viewpoint as a non-LEO but a strong LE supporter - & I've been watching this case with interest. I'm trying to give you what I see as a "reality check" on the viewpoint of the general public. And when I say "general public" below, I mean the majority of the general public who largely support LE, at least to some extent - and not the fringe member of the general public with an anti-LEO agenda or other issue.)

It seems like there are three components of this event -

1. Conduct of the MPD officer before the stop - The MPD officer was clearly speeding and violating traffic laws in his city-provided police cruiser because he was late for an off-duty employment gig. **The general public just doesn't "get this" and doesn't think it's OK or can be justified.** This is really a public trust issue. If it's individual officer conduct that's off the reservation, they should move to correct that quickly and publicly. If that's currently an acceptable practice at MPD in general, they have a bigger problem that will tarnish their reputation (and rub off on LE in general) until it's corrected.

The general public would understand if this was a "no lights and siren" response for a tactical reason to a call, or something like that. But we've all been late to work at some point in our lives. The concept of this officer using a city police car to blatantly violate traffic laws - with the expectation he gets a pass on that conduct because he's LE - because he's late for an off-duty security gig ***just isn't acceptable to the general public*** and will rub off in a bad way on general public opinion of LE in general unless it's corrected.

2. FHP trooper didn't terminate the pursuit when ordered to? - while this is hotly debated here it really doesn't matter as much in the public opinion sense. The general public view is that anything the FHP trooper did in this regard pales in comparison to the MPD officer conduct - in fact the extreme nature of the driving behavior of the MPD officer probably negates any legitimate "general public" criticism of the FHP trooper. She is seen as doing what she had to do to stop the MPD car. Certainly an internal issue for FHP, but no one else cares. This discussion, of course, would be very different had the FHP trooper had a wreck and killed or hurt a bystander.

3. FHP tactics at the stop, motivation for stopping the marked MPD car, decision to detain, handcuff & disarm the MPD officer - Certainly a legitimate professional discussion for LEO's, but the general public doesn't really know about these things & probably doesn't care. Same thing with the MPD vs. FHP rivalry discussion and officer professional courtesy issues. What the public sees is a FHP trooper doing what she had to do to stop a rogue MPD officer. Had the stop been for 15 mph over, or running a red light rather than a 12+ mile high speed chase, then it would be a different story. The general public will understand that a LEO is probably not going to give another LEO a ticket for a routine traffic issue. But the general public won't tolerate anyone, including an LEO, getting a pass on the MPD officer's reckless driving conduct in this case.

As it stands from the public view, the individual MPD officer and the MPD really looks bad in this (and it rubs off to some extend on all LE) and FHP comes out smelling pretty good (despite the issues with the stop). It also lends support to those who would paint Miami as the modern east coast version of the lawless wild wild west.

This would have been 1000 times worse, and would have reflected even more poorly on LE in general had there been an armed confrontation between the trooper and the police officer. Imagine what the anti-LEO media would do with a "Mexican standoff" or, God forbid an actual shoot-out between the FHP and the MPD on the roadside of a busy interstate in south Florida.

If MPD wants to handle this as well as possible (and if they care about the expectations of the public they serve) they will quickly and publicly address the officer conduct issue, quickly and publicly address any departmental cultural issue and move forward. FHP already looks as good as they can look in the public eye & should lay low. And if the MPD and FHP have competent top level leadership, the highest level leaders will meet ASAP & create & direct the framework for a relationship of cameraderie and mutual respect going forward.

dorkweed
11-11-2011, 13:18
(Disclaimer - this is my viewpoint as a non-LEO but a strong LE supporter - & I've been watching this case with interest. I'm trying to give you what I see as a "reality check" on the viewpoint of the general public. And when I say "general public" below, I mean the majority of the general public who largely support LE, at least to some extent - and not the fringe member of the general public with an anti-LEO agenda or other issue.)

It seems like there are three components of this event -

1. Conduct of the MPD officer before the stop - The MPD officer was clearly speeding and violating traffic laws in his city-provided police cruiser because he was late for an off-duty employment gig. **The general public just doesn't "get this" and doesn't think it's OK or can be justified.** This is really a public trust issue. If it's individual officer conduct that's off the reservation, they should move to correct that quickly and publicly. If that's currently an acceptable practice at MPD in general, they have a bigger problem that will tarnish their reputation (and rub off on LE in general) until it's corrected.

The general public would understand if this was a "no lights and siren" response for a tactical reason to a call, or something like that. But we've all been late to work at some point in our lives. The concept of this officer using a city police car to blatantly violate traffic laws - with the expectation he gets a pass on that conduct because he's LE - because he's late for an off-duty security gig ***just isn't acceptable to the general public*** and will rub off in a bad way on general public opinion of LE in general unless it's corrected.

2. FHP trooper didn't terminate the pursuit when ordered to? - while this is hotly debated here it really doesn't matter as much in the public opinion sense. The general public view is that anything the FHP trooper did in this regard pales in comparison to the MPD officer conduct - in fact the extreme nature of the driving behavior of the MPD officer probably negates any legitimate "general public" criticism of the FHP trooper. She is seen as doing what she had to do to stop the MPD car. Certainly an internal issue for FHP, but no one else cares. This discussion, of course, would be very different had the FHP trooper had a wreck and killed or hurt a bystander.

3. FHP tactics at the stop, motivation for stopping the marked MPD car, decision to detain, handcuff & disarm the MPD officer - Certainly a legitimate professional discussion for LEO's, but the general public doesn't really know about these things & probably doesn't care. Same thing with the MPD vs. FHP rivalry discussion and officer professional courtesy issues. What the public sees is a FHP trooper doing what she had to do to stop a rogue MPD officer. Had the stop been for 15 mph over, or running a red light rather than a 12+ mile high speed chase, then it would be a different story. The general public will understand that a LEO is probably not going to give another LEO a ticket for a routine traffic issue. But the general public won't tolerate anyone, including an LEO, getting a pass on the MPD officer's reckless driving conduct in this case.

As it stands from the public view, the individual MPD officer and the MPD really looks bad in this (and it rubs off to some extend on all LE) and FHP comes out smelling pretty good (despite the issues with the stop). It also lends support to those who would paint Miami as the modern east coast version of the lawless wild wild west.

This would have been 1000 times worse, and would have reflected even more poorly on LE in general had there been an armed confrontation between the trooper and the police officer. Imagine what the anti-LEO media would do with a "Mexican standoff" or, God forbid an actual shoot-out between the FHP and the MPD on the roadside of a busy interstate in south Florida.

If MPD wants to handle this as well as possible (and if they care about the expectations of the public they serve) they will quickly and publicly address the officer conduct issue, quickly and publicly address any departmental cultural issue and move forward. FHP already looks as good as they can look in the public eye & should lay low. And if the MPD and FHP have competent top level leadership, the highest level leaders will meet ASAP & create & direct the framework for a relationship of cameraderie and mutual respect going forward.




Very, very, very well said!!!!:yourock::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Morris
11-11-2011, 13:22
I have yet to see any statements issued by FHP indicating she was in violation of any of their policies.

What I have seen here is a lot of folks passing judgment according to THEIR depts. policies rather than FHP's

Good points.

Fiery Red XIII
11-11-2011, 13:49
The war rages on...MPD officer disciplined for pulling over FHP squad:


http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/4646452-Miami-police-chief-disciplines-officer-for-pulling-over-FHP-trooper/


Red

w01
11-11-2011, 14:06
The war rages on...MPD officer disciplined for pulling over FHP squad:


http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/4646452-Miami-police-chief-disciplines-officer-for-pulling-over-FHP-trooper/


Red

And to add to this event, it turns out that the brother of the FHP Trooper who was stopped happens to be a Sergeant in the MPD's Internal Affairs Bureau...

At least the Miami Police Chief has issued a public "knock it off" order. That's a start.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/10/2495927/miami-police-chief-disciplines.html#disqus_thread

4949shooter
11-11-2011, 14:12
Deleted.

Let's all remember we are on the same team.

Crazypolack
11-11-2011, 18:24
It didn't quite look like 120 MPH to me either, but that is pretty subjective so I looked at the video. Conveniently, the MPD car passes the FHP car right before mile marker 62 and the FHP car catches up right before mile marker 53.

6:28:13 Video begins, MPD car passes FHP car.
6:28:16 FHP passes MM 62.
6:28:52 FHP passes MM 61. Avg speed for last mile is 100 MPH
6:29:25 FHP passes MM 60. Avg speed for last mile is 109.1 MPH
6:30:03 FHP passes MM 59. Avg speed for last mile is 94.7 MPH
6:30:38 FHP passes MM 58. Avg speed for last mile is 102.9 MPH
6:31:14 FHP passes MM 57. Avg speed for last mile is 100 MPH
6:31:49 FHP passes MM 56. Avg speed for last mile is 102.9 MPH
6:32:23 FHP passes MM 55. Avg speed for last mile is 105.9 MPH
6:32:54 FHP passes MM 54. Avg speed for last mile is 116.1 MPH
6:33:26 FHP passes MM 53. Avg speed for last mile is 112.5 MPH

Given that the speeds are only averages it's very likely the trooper reached speeds of 120 MPH in catching up.

Now, as for the Miami officer, we can see him passing MM 62 at 6:28:15. He passes MM 53 at 6:33:25. That gives an average speed of 104.5 MPH. Let's assume he didn't have cruise control on for the entire 9 miles, he very likely reaches 110 with 120 being a definite possibility.

metal
11-11-2011, 19:12
If they still deal with"super troopers" the way they used to she can look forward to a transfer to the worst area they can find.

Detroit? :tbo:

Dragoon44
11-11-2011, 19:21
Deleted.

Let's all remember we are on the same team.

it sounds like Miami PD and FHP need to remember they are on the same team.

4949shooter
11-11-2011, 19:27
it sounds like Miami PD and FHP need to remember they are on the same team.

Most especially those two.

BSA70
11-12-2011, 06:29
No doubt the Miami Pd officer was wrong. But just from what I see, maybe the trooper was too. I may have secured the identifying information on the officer/car then went thru the chain of command.

Then again, we don't know the history on this. They may have had numerous warnings, who knows.....

merlynusn
11-12-2011, 08:27
The retaliation stop was done outside of MPD's jurisdiction???? These guys need to knock it off. Why would a 27 year veteran do something so stupid?

Morris
11-12-2011, 18:16
So when is the White House beer summit?

Dragoon44
11-12-2011, 19:14
So when is the White House beer summit?

They are still trying to decide who acted the most stupidly.

:rofl::rofl:

SgtScott31
11-13-2011, 01:52
At this point she is violating the exact same laws that the MPD officer is violating and she's disobeying a direct order to boot. From 3:08 to 4:46 she is as much of a danger to the general public as the MPD officer and she's being insubordinate to boot. How does she not deserve to be issued the same citation as the MPD officer, minus the attempting to elude, as well as face internal disciplinary sanctions for disobeying a direct order?


So had she not been called off on this, what's your opinion? I guess every LEO who pursues a high speed violator is just as dangerous as the offender and deserves to be criminally charged as well? Whether allowed to pursue or not, the public is at great risk either way. If she was called off, then yes she should be punished adminstratively. You and I will have to agree to disagree about who is "more wrong" in this situation. Although she may have violated agency policy, it appears to me from the evidence I've seen/heard, this is/was a common occurrence for MPD and something that should have been dealt with long before it came to this.

If MPD wants to handle this as well as possible (and if they care about the expectations of the public they serve) they will quickly and publicly address the officer conduct issue, quickly and publicly address any departmental cultural issue and move forward. FHP already looks as good as they can look in the public eye & should lay low. And if the MPD and FHP have competent top level leadership, the highest level leaders will meet ASAP & create & direct the framework for a relationship of cameraderie and mutual respect going forward.


Considering that there's video evidence of their officer driving reckless and they don't want to do anything about it until the court date, that speaks volumes.

ArmaGlock
11-13-2011, 20:26
It's normally not a pursuit until the violator knows he's being pursued. Catching up to someone and pursuing are two different things.



The speeds were reckless. There's no doubt about it. If it wasn't 120, it was close. Regardless of 90, 100, or 120, it was still way too fast. I don't have a problem with the trooper doing what she had to do to find out what was going on. She's not going to know who the person is passing her at those speeds, so a call in to the PD wasn't going to solve anything.



I don't approach anything as unsuspecting, but you say her speculation is far-fetched regarding a stolen PD car. I highly doubt FHP monitors MPD's frequency. I'm sure an agency the size of MPD has multiple frequencies depending on the zone you work in. I don't think an idea of a stolen police car is too far fetched. It has happened quite a bit. My point is, you threw in your first post that her believing the car was stolen was BS. It has happened plenty of times before involving agencies across the U.S. Most of the time involving a suspect who was able to manipulate their handcuffs and take off in the vehicle. I don't know of one instance where someone took a police car just to stop another officer to cause harm. Can it happen? yes, anything can happen. Is it on the same page as someone stealing a car in general to avoid arrest? I don't believe so.

I think it is wrong and a crap stain to the LE community for so many who are attempting to paint the FHP Trooper in a worse light than the MPD officer. It's giving a foul taste to the rest of the public. The media has been quoting threads straight from the o.com forum and others about what LE is saying. I think it's ridiculous that LEOs across the country are saying what she did was wrong or trying to point out a bunch of administrative (or tactical) related errors to move the light away from the officer that really needs to lose his job. I'm tired of so many taking only one sentence to disagree with the MPD officer's actions, but writing two paragraphs about the FHP Trooper and how she was wrong.

When it comes down to more serious disciplinary actions, the agency heads are not going to be after the trooper's head.

I never said it was far-fetched for a police car to get stolen. I said her saying that is what she thought was BS. She contradicts herself by saying that it is common for Miami PD cars to speed through that area. Not to mention if she thought it was stolen, WHY did she approach that car like that? The audio sucks in the beginning of the full 49 minute video, but I don't hear her ask her dispatch to make contact with Miami PD to see if they have a report of one of their cruisers being stolen. She makes a comment about thinking it was stolen after she realizes how ridiculous she was acting by pulling her gun on him and putting him in handcuffs.

I just don't buy it. She didn't think the car was stolen, she was pissed and took it personally when he passed her. Was he out of line? Absolutely, I never said he wasn't, BUT, she was out of control and needs a foot to her ass for acting how she did. You don't like how people are painting her in a worse light, well, I don't like how certain people are excusing her behavior just because he was being such an idiot. Wrong is wrong......