Off-duty carry blues [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 09:10
I'm developing a bad habit of not carrying off-duty. I find it uncomfortable and hard to conceal anything without dressing like a bum. T-shirt/sweatshirt and jeans is all I can wear with my current setup, which is simply an Uncle Mikes IWB with my Rossi 461 .357 Magnum. I have always touted my Rossi as a great backup gun, but it's wearing me down as of late. Don't know why, but it's increasingly uncomfortable and heavy. Due to my year-long weight-loss-gain-it-back workout regimen, my off-duty setup goes from pulling my pants down to making them too tight in the same month it seems.

I also don't like the disadvantage I find myself at with a 2" revolver. The world is slowly going to **** and I think I'm going to find myself outgunned even in the odd chance I carry something.

In my "stable" I have large semi-autos of various flavors. The Rossi is all I have that is "small". I do have a Glock 32C and a Sig P6 which are smaller of the large semi-autos. I was looking at leather IWB holsters for these and they look somewhat comfortable. I'm also just contemplating buying a completely different gun for off-duty carry. I don't really want a small Glock though. I still think it would be too thick. So, looking for a bit of guidance.

nitesite10mm
10-31-2011, 09:36
Generally speaking, what is your preferred style of dress when you are out roaming while off duty? Knowing that would help me to give a suggestion. Hell, I'll probably have several!

Vigilant
10-31-2011, 09:42
http://www.budspolicesupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2_21/products_id/26

Problem solved. Try it with a Nemesis pocket holster. It has polygonal rifling to boot. Eats 124-grain +P Gold Dots like candy.

I carry a full-size P9 in my right front pocket, in a Nemesis, with ease.

cowboywannabe
10-31-2011, 09:44
there are several viable "duty caliber" guns you can cary concealed wearing most anythong other than a speedo. pun intended.


you make a hammer work like a saw if you need a saw.

use the right tool for the right job. thats why God made so many different types of guns.

CharlestonG26
10-31-2011, 09:45
A S&W Airweight Centennial (442/642) is an excellent choice for discreet pocket carry...even with nice casual attire or even a suit.

Addition of Crimson Trace laser grips greatly increases shooter confidence with snubbie revolvers.

nikerret
10-31-2011, 10:30
I'm developing a bad habit of not carrying off-duty. I find it uncomfortable and hard to conceal anything...

Me, too. I even have a P3AT that gets left at home all too often. I would much rather carry the G27.

I haven't found clothes that fit right with a firearm concealed aside from an ankle holster; with that, I have to wear boots or it gets uncomfortable. Plus, we have to have our badge, ID, and restraints of some type, by policy. I do have the tuff-ties, but it's still a lot of extra crap to carry.

Ironically, the time I am best armed off-duty and outside my home is when I'm at the gym; I cary a bag around, much easier.

However, winter is here and carrying comfortably and within fashion has become much easier.

CW Mock
10-31-2011, 10:32
I carry a G19 off duty all the time, and I don't have to dress like a bum. You just have to dress around it, and really, have a good holster/carry setup. Not sure about your area and climate, but around here its pretty common to see people in slacks/jeans with a t-shirt on, and wearing a long sleeved shirt over that. It lends itself to hiding a medium compact sized auto fairly easy.

I carry the G19 pretty much year round now, in the same type of setup, usually IWB at 4-5 o-clock. I carry a spare G17 mag in a pocket for a reload, and I don't feel burdened or like my gun is printing all the time. I'm not what I consider huge at 5-11 and 185.

If its summertime, I sometimes "scale down" to a PPK or J-Frame in the pocket or on the ankle. I'm not a fan of shorts, so its not an issue for me. Generally though, I try to take a service sized automatic with me if I can. Looking at some of the others makes of guns, Kahr seems to have some good stuff. My dad has a Kahr P or CW45 he carries all the time, and its surprisingly small and thin. I can only imagine the 9mm and 40 guns are smaller.

Only other bit of "wisdom" I have gleaned from off duty carry is you have to dress around a gun to be comfortable - IE, buy pants large enough to fit comfortably with a piece, etc. Might have to adapt your style a bit too.

Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 10:35
I'm a t-shirt and jeans person, but if I have to get dressed up a little bit (say for church or out to eat) then that usually means tucking in my shirt. That means no IWB. I do NOT like ankle-carry one bit. Short of pocket carry IDK what else to do.

I'm trying to stay away from revolvers for ODC.

Sharky7
10-31-2011, 10:37
Have you tried any of the hybrid leather/kydex holsters like the crossbreed? Those are by far my favorite. You can even tuck in your shirt with them.

Like someone else said above, single stack 9's like the PM9 or CM9 are really easy to conceal and lightweight. Throw an extra magazine in your pocket and you have 14 rounds of 9mm on you.

Hack
10-31-2011, 10:39
I carry a Glock 17 in an IWB tuckable holster setup. Galco King Tuck seems to work pretty well.

Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 10:41
Everyone raves about the Galco holsters but I've not tried one. I will say it does not look very comfortable, but looks can be deceiving.

I had a chance to buy a Kahr compact .45 for $200 last month. Didn't have the cash.

collim1
10-31-2011, 10:44
Kadet I worry about you not carrying off-duty. I wear jeans and a untucked polo shirt 95% of the time when I am off-duty. I would carry the Sig P6 OWB in a leather thumb break.

You are LE, so a little bit of printing is not the end of the world. I would also carry a spare mag at about 11:00 where it is on your duty belt.

If you wear a duty belt all day the off-duty rig should feel light as a feather.

I carry a Sig P239 and a spare mag off-duty. I carry it OWB in a Don Hume H721 thumb break leather holster. Occasionally I will pocket carry my 442 and two speed strips, but I usually only go that "light" when I have to wear dress clothes that require a tucked in shirt and 100% concealment.

Just make your mind up to carry something 100% of the time.

CW Mock
10-31-2011, 10:47
I'm a t-shirt and jeans person, but if I have to get dressed up a little bit (say for church or out to eat) then that usually means tucking in my shirt. That means no IWB. I do NOT like ankle-carry one bit. Short of pocket carry IDK what else to do.

I'm trying to stay away from revolvers for ODC.

Hmm ... makes it a little tougher ... LOL

Maybe one of the tuckable ones like the Crossbreed is an idea? Other than changing your dress to fit carrying a gun, you might have to just go for a small weapon and pocket carry after all. I don't like pocket carry myself, but some of the guys here do it with LCPs and the like.

My hangup is the gun. I don't want a tiny gun as my primary. As a backup, maybe. I might just be stupid-phobic about it though, but I worry about the next mall or church shooting, and going into one of those with a J-frame or PPK seems like a bad idea as I am not James Bond. Sounds like you might feel similar, not wanting a 2 inch .357 as a primary either.

If you end up going with the pocket-rocket, I'd try for something hammerless like a baby Glock, or Khar. I have pocket carried the PPK a few times, and the hammer can hang up on your pocket during the draw ... and there is a surprising amount of lint in most people's pockets that finds its way into hammer channels, etc.

Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 10:49
Kadet I worry about you not carrying off-duty. I wear jeans and a untucked polo shirt 95% of the time when I am off-duty. I would carry the Sig P6 OWB in a leather thumb break.

You are LE, so a little bit of printing is not the end of the world. I would also carry a spare mag at about 11:00 where it is on your duty belt.

If you wear a duty belt all day the off-duty rig should feel light as a feather.

I carry a Sig P239 and a spare mag off-duty. I carry it OWB in a Don Hume H721 thumb break leather holster. Occasionally I will pocket carry my 442 and two speed strips, but I usually only go that "light" when I have to wear dress clothes that require a tucked in shirt and 100% concealment.

Just make your mind up to carry something 100% of the time.

I know better, I'm just getting frustrated. I think I might try and carry the G32C in the waistband. I found this holster-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ITP-IWB-PREMIUM-LEATHER-HOLSTER-4-GLOCK-19-23-32-/180612686776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0d5ae3b8
and it looks pretty comfortable. Also looks like something I could wear under a suit jacket, polo, whatever.
Eta*
I like this one too-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Glock-17-19-26-22-23-27-31-32-33-Leather-Holster-Black-/170719826539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bfb1d26b

collim1
10-31-2011, 10:55
I'm a t-shirt and jeans person, but if I have to get dressed up a little bit (say for church or out to eat) then that usually means tucking in my shirt. That means no IWB. I do NOT like ankle-carry one bit. Short of pocket carry IDK what else to do.

I'm trying to stay away from revolvers for ODC.

Nothing wrong with a 6 shot medium frame revolver, but I like to carry more than a jframe off duty.

Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 10:58
Nothing wrong with a 6 shot medium frame revolver, but I like to carry more than a jframe off duty.

I agree. I just get this feeling that as people get more desperate, it's more likely that stupid things will begin to happen. In that case, I'd feel better with a higher capacity, more accuracy, and a familiar manual of arms. I carry a G22 every day for work.

Sharky7
10-31-2011, 11:00
For a few extra bucks I would try the hybrid holster like the Galco king tuk, Tommy theis, shielded holster, or crossbreed holster. They all have a 2 week try it deal, if you don't like it return it. And you get a lifetime warranty.


They look weird as hell, but they really are the best iwb in my opinion. I use my crossbreed almost 95% of the time off duty, very rarely go owb anymore. Give it a shot, you don't like it return it.

Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 11:04
For a few extra bucks I would try the hybrid holster like the Galco king tuk, Tommy theis, shielded holster, or crossbreed holster. They all have a 2 week try it deal, if you don't like it return it. And you get a lifetime warranty.


They look weird as hell, but they really are the best iwb in my opinion. I use my crossbreed almost 95% of the time off duty, very rarely go owb anymore. Give it a shot, you don't like it return it.

I think the king tuck looks like a.....strange device. But I admit I've never tried one.

collim1
10-31-2011, 11:06
I agree. I just get this feeling that as people get more desperate, it's more likely that stupid things will begin to happen. In that case, I'd feel better with a higher capacity, more accuracy, and a familiar manual of arms. I carry a G22 every day for work.

In that case a G27 with G22 mag as a spare would be perfect.

Bushido5150
10-31-2011, 11:07
I carry every day. Most of the time I wear the King tuk (which I love). I just wear an undershirt to prevent it rubbing on skin then you can wear whatever you want over it.

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Kadetklapp
10-31-2011, 11:11
and an excuse to buy another gun...hmmm....SHE needs strong convincing though...

fat.buffalo
10-31-2011, 11:20
I used to be a reserve officer a long time ago when the only off-duty carry was the 5 or 6-shot revolver. It's been interesting to see how things have changed. Since I carry now as a civilian with a permit my needs are different than yours. I'm comfortable with a 5-shot revolver, but for a leo I would definitely recommend a semi-auto with at least one reload.

I like the P6, but it is a little large. You have to do IWB, paddle or pancake holster and then you do have to dress around the gun. For that I like either a casual corduroy(?) sports jacket or a safari-type jacket. Since I'm older than Dragoon and refuse to carry a man-purse all those pockets come in handy. I hate those shoot-me-first 5.11 vests. I feel the same about fanny pack. I remember another member of this forum saying that fanny packs scream "dork."

For pocket carry I like the PM9. I've heard good things about the Ruger LC9 and the Lawman800 is always talking-up his Taurus 709(?). I believe Bersa also has a small 9mm.

Hope these suggestions help and not confuse.

3Speedyfish3
10-31-2011, 11:37
Kadetklapp,

Try a Kel-Tec PF9 or Diamondback DB9. Both lightweight, concealable 9mm semi-auto pocket pistols that won't break your budget--or cause your other half to go into orbit when you ask. With a good holster, they print like a small wallet in your strongside front pocket. I have an Uncle Mike's size 3 pocket holster that fits them all, including my P3AT, Kahr PM9, and assorted Airweight revolvers.

Randall

janice6
10-31-2011, 11:50
I dress like a bum and I like it. I'm not criticizing, just stating my preference. When you're old, every one thinks you're a bum anyway.

Back to you. I carry in a crossbreed IWB holster with a Rhino .357 Magnum snubbie revolver. The cylinder has flats on it and it conceals far easier then my G27. I have no problem in suits or jackets and tie.

Just a thought.

Cochese
10-31-2011, 11:53
Sell one of the other guns and buy a G27 for $398. Then, get a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster.

Chowser
10-31-2011, 11:55
I carry a 33 IWB in a galco deep cover holster. a loose t shirt covers it up.
i tried pocket carrying it, but it's too thick. i just bought a kahr cm9 to pocket carry. works great with jeans. it sits in a desantis nemesis holster.
i am getting a gen4 32 when it comes out and it will become my iwb/owb carry gun when off-duty. the cm9 for when i just don't want to carry the glock.

jellis11
10-31-2011, 12:02
I'm a t-shirt and jeans person, but if I have to get dressed up a little bit (say for church or out to eat) then that usually means tucking in my shirt. That means no IWB. I do NOT like ankle-carry one bit. Short of pocket carry IDK what else to do.

I'm trying to stay away from revolvers for ODC.

I'm sure you could find a gun/holster combo for that. I wear an IWB with a g26 or XD45. Jeans and Tshirt. Usually I wear a med or large shirt. I see lots of guys go IWB with a tucked in shirt as well.

GunFighter45ACP
10-31-2011, 12:08
It's hard to beat a J frame/pocket carry. I used to work w/a guy that used this combo as his off duty set up, plus he kept a mid to duty size auto in a paddle holster in his vehicle for those just in case situations.

Hack
10-31-2011, 12:26
I think the king tuck looks like a.....strange device. But I admit I've never tried one.

Just don't get the metal clips caught on anything that would cause them to be pulled out. They have some optional clips that are some kind of plastic IIRC, so they might be better. Admittedly it took a little getting used to, but I liked it better than a thunder wear holster. You still have to do something concerning an extra magazine, which I usually just pocket carry one of those, and try to keep the pockets cleaned, and check over the magazine every once in awhile for lint.

This particular holster and others similar to it are good for dressing up with as well.

Denied
10-31-2011, 12:31
I feel your pain, I have been doing the same dance for more years than most of you have been on this earth. No matter how small of a gun you get, it will still present a problem, even it your carry is just two medium size rocks.
I have carried them all and have a safe full of pistols and revolvers to prove it, not to mention a couple of large boxes of assorted holsters. Right now my every day carry is a Kahr PM9 in a nemesis pocket holster. I can carry fairly comfortably in a hip pocket as long as the pants are the ones with a flap on the rear pockets such as cabelas 7 pocket hikers or the like. When I do have to look presentable which is not very often same pistol in a IWB holster works for me. Having given up on trying to be in style, I find that Perry suspenders are a great help especially since one of the things I lost with old age was my butt. Good luck, carry something, the time you need it will be when you don't have it. (Murphy Law)

Snowman92D
10-31-2011, 12:32
Sell one of the other guns and buy a G27 for $398. Then, get a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster.

:agree: Load up and get on with the day. :thumbsup:

jwhite75
10-31-2011, 12:53
The P6 or the 32 in a Comp-tac Minotaur, with a belt from www.thebeltman.net (http://www.thebeltman.net)

A lot cheaper and less hassle than buying a new gun. It is tuckable or not and the belt will keep the gun from dragging down yo drawers..

I thought the belt was not a big deal especially carrying IWB, but I just got one of these and carry a Sig P228 or a Glock 23 IWB with one and it is amazing the difference they make.

ateamer
10-31-2011, 13:07
Glock 27 and a Comp-Tac MTAC holster. It works well with any style of clothing, and is as close to total concealment as you'll ever get. Comfortable, too. You can wear it for eight to 10 hours and barely even notice it.

DaBigBR
10-31-2011, 14:08
There is no universal solution to your problem. For me it took a pretty solid investment in buying and trying a lot of carry methods and in many cases different holsters for a specific method to figure it out. Here are some things to consider:

1) What kind of belt are you using?
I cannot say enough how important it is to have a good belt. I wear the heavy nylon, metal buckle trainer type belts a lot or a Galco leather belt. Whatever you buy, buy something that's meant to support the weight of a pistol. You'll hear from folks that spent $10 or $15 and got a "great belt that's as good as xyz gunbelt..." but it will still only be "as good as." Seriously...spend $50 on a belt if that's what it takes. You spent a few hundred on the gun and god knows what on ammunition, don't skimp on the belt. It's like the tires on a car - it's the part that's attaching the gun to your body. I'll say it again: wear a good damned belt.

2) Find a couple different carry methods that work for you and use them appropriately.
When I started carrying a gun, it went in to a Fobus paddle on a crap belt (see above). I was constantly uncomfortable about printing, etc. Today, I have gear for OWB, IWB, ankle carry, pocket carry, and a smart-carry (don't know how to describe that one). I have seen people succeed and fail at all of the above methods as well as a couple of others (like AIWB). Don't be completely discouraged by a carry method based on a single piece of equipment. We've all got a box full of holsters that just didn't work out for us. I've found that IWB carry is great for me with a Comptac MTAC, but I've tried other holsters that didn't cut it. I've found that I prefer the Nemesis for pocket carry to the Kramer horsehide I have. I've found that the Galco Ankle Glove is a better ankle holster for me than my Bianchi Ranger. I've found those things out by trying different holsters and different guns.

3) The occasion, manner of dress, and firearm of choice are all interdependent factors.
What I'm getting at here is that the firearm that you select to carry on a shopping trip in a major city in jeans and a t-shirt is likely different than the firearm you would choose to go to a wedding in the same city in a shirt and tie or a suit. I find that for me a medium-sized automatic, such as a Glock 19, 23, or 30 conceals very well under a t-shirt, polo shirt, sweatshirt, etc and that I can carry one year round in those clothes. If I'm going somewhere that requires dress clothes (or requires a tucked in shirt, then I can either tuck around the MTAC (and still conceal the gun) or go with the smart carry. Neither one produces as fast of a draw, but both enhance concealability.

This is ultimately a profession of "risk management". You're going to have to weigh your decision on whether or not to carry, what to carry, and how to carry it with the associated risks. I personally see no risk management benefit to not carrying at all, unless I guess one is going to be around his mother-in-law...

Vigilant
10-31-2011, 14:25
I would stay away from the Kel Tecs. If price is an issue, try the Kahr CM9.

Bruce M
10-31-2011, 15:23
Kadetklapp,

Try a ... or Diamondback DB9. ...
Randall

Some have reported more than a few problems with those.

sulaco
10-31-2011, 15:30
If you are constantly having to pull your britches up, you ain't wearing a good gun belt. Start there and then get a comfortable IWB holster and you are all set. I find the baby Glocks a breeze to carry IWB at 3:30-4:00. You can also ankle carry a baby Glock. TONS of cops do for their BUG.

fla2760
10-31-2011, 16:20
I'm developing a bad habit of not carrying off-duty. I find it uncomfortable and hard to conceal anything without dressing like a bum. T-shirt/sweatshirt and jeans is all I can wear with my current setup, which is simply an Uncle Mikes IWB with my Rossi 461 .357 Magnum. I have always touted my Rossi as a great backup gun, but it's wearing me down as of late. Don't know why, but it's increasingly uncomfortable and heavy. Due to my year-long weight-loss-gain-it-back workout regimen, my off-duty setup goes from pulling my pants down to making them too tight in the same month it seems.

I also don't like the disadvantage I find myself at with a 2" revolver. The world is slowly going to **** and I think I'm going to find myself outgunned even in the odd chance I carry something.

In my "stable" I have large semi-autos of various flavors. The Rossi is all I have that is "small". I do have a Glock 32C and a Sig P6 which are smaller of the large semi-autos. I was looking at leather IWB holsters for these and they look somewhat comfortable. I'm also just contemplating buying a completely different gun for off-duty carry. I don't really want a small Glock though. I still think it would be too thick. So, looking for a bit of guidance.

Have you considered the Ruger LC9 or maybe the Glock36? Good advice above on the gunbelt and the ankle carry suggestion.

igor
10-31-2011, 17:18
I HAVE BEEN OFF DUTY CARRYING SINCE 1971. I DO IT EVERY DAY EVEN IN RETIEMENT. ITS EASY FOLKS. SUMMER TIME I WEAR SHORTS AND A POLO SHIRT. I EITHER HAVE A G 26 IWB IN A BLADE TECH OR ALESSI IWB. OR I AHVE A PCS PANCAKE OR A ROSEN that i can take on or off. the 2x polo shirt hide it all weapon and spare mag. in the winteri wear jeans a polo and a sweat shirt topped by a fleece vest. i either have a g 19 or a 26 in a pancake holster and no oneknows. you just have to be committed to doing it. i used a nemesis pocket holster to carry my g 26 prior to retirement in 2008 as adeputy sheriff and no oneever figured it out.

BamaTrooper
10-31-2011, 18:19
A S&W Airweight Centennial (442/642) is an excellent choice for discreet pocket carry...even with nice casual attire or even a suit.

Addition of Crimson Trace laser grips greatly increases shooter confidence with snubbie revolvers.

Bingo if you want light and reliable.
Otherwise, buy pants to fit your range of spread.
Ankle carry if necessary.
Small gun is better than no gun. I just sat through a forensic study that covered shootings occuring in the bottom 7 counties of AL over the past 25 years.
Findings?
Placement>caliber
Head hit>torso hit>extremity
5hits>4>3>2>1
Most effective? Multiple big caliber hits to head and neck.

BamaTrooper
10-31-2011, 18:23
I'm a t-shirt and jeans person, but if I have to get dressed up a little bit (say for church or out to eat) then that usually means tucking in my shirt. That means no IWB. I do NOT like ankle-carry one bit. Short of pocket carry IDK what else to do.

I'm trying to stay away from revolvers for ODC.

Just read that, but let me say, after about a week, you get used to it. You can reach it while driving and while sitting and it is avaiable for both handswithout all kinds of contorsions should it be required.

collim1
10-31-2011, 19:50
It's hard to beat a J frame/pocket carry. I used to work w/a guy that used this combo as his off duty set up, plus he kept a mid to duty size auto in a paddle holster in his vehicle for those just in case situations.

I feel strongly that jframe and LCP's are not enough firepower for LEO off-duty carry.

I think they make great BUG's and despite the above opinion I have on many occasions left the house with just my jframe in my pocket. Usually church or weddings when wearing dress clothes and require 100% concealment.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE for walking out of the house without something on you. A jframe in a Uncle Mike's pocket holster is just too darn easy to carry.

Bruce M
11-01-2011, 05:50
As much ankle carry is not my choice for a primary gun, I dislike much more the sinking feeling of saying to myself I really, really wish I had a gun with me.

Kadetklapp
11-01-2011, 06:42
So out of what I have listed below (which are guns that are currently in my inventory) what would you choose and what rig/method would you choose to carry it?

Glock 32C

Glock 22 (my personal duty gun)

Rossi 461

Sig P6

Bryco .380 (lol)

Agent6-3/8
11-01-2011, 07:08
The key to successful and comfortable concealment really is a quality holster and belt. Maybe its my build, but my typical carry is either a G19 or a Colt Commander (usually the Colt) and I've never had much trouble concealing either. And all while wearing normal fitting clothes, even a t-shirt and shorts. I usually carry a spare mag in my off side back pocket during warm weather. Now that cooler weather is here I'll use a belt carrier more often.

If I had to recomend an IWB setup I'd without a doubt suggest the Comptac's Mtac along with a kydex reinforced 5.11 Operator or Wilderness Instructor belt. The Mtac does a superb job of carrying and concealing the weapon and the infinte adjustability of nylon belts has really won me over to them. Leather belts for me have always been too loose and sag or too tight and uncomfortable. Nylon lets me adjust the fit perfectly. About the only time I wear a leather belt now is while wearing a suit.

rookie1
11-01-2011, 07:31
I carry a G26 with the + 1/2 extension. I park it in a IWB at 12:30, sounds weird but its to the right of my belt buckle and to the left of the belt loop. When sitting I know its there but not a problem, when walking its like its not there. If its cold I just throw my G23 in a Fobus paddle holster on my right hip with a winter coat over it.

Kadetklapp
11-01-2011, 07:50
I've never given the first thought to a belt. I wear a leather belt from Wal-mart or sometimes if I'm going to carry out of the waist band I'll wear my brown leather underbelt I wear on-duty with a Bianchi slide-on. I can see how the belt would make some difference on OWB, but IWB?

Also, the woman says no new guns. Got remodeling to do this winter. So the list above is what I have on the smaller end of the handgun scale.

Vigilant
11-01-2011, 08:27
Look at Aker gun belts, and FIST holsters. I can CCW a full-size G22 IWB at 4:30 no sweat with a FIST Kydez holster. As others have said, you just have to dress around it.

I have tried several options, and like the Kahr P9 and a Nemesis the best, by far.

scottydl
11-01-2011, 08:35
THUNDERWEAR. I can't believe more people don't use it... but then again I didn't sing its praises either until I bought one and started using it. Shirt untucked, tucked in, belt, no belt, shorts, pants, denim, athletic, you can wear Thunderwear with anything.

I've used mine for well over 5 years now with a Glock 27 and extra mag... 18 hollow points if I really need 'em.

Thunderwear holsters pop up on eBay every so often, but I really recommend going through the company itself as they will make sure you get the exact size needed for your size and gun size. PM me if you want the contact info I have.

Bruce M
11-01-2011, 09:25
So out of what I have listed below (which are guns that are currently in my inventory) what would you choose and what rig/method would you choose to carry it?

Glock 32C

Glock 22 (my personal duty gun)

Rossi 461

Sig P6

Bryco .380 (lol)

I would opt for the G3 (or the P6) which I think is a bit lighter than the P6, although the P6 is probably a bit thinner. IWB holster and decent belt. If I couldn't tolerate that smallish revolver somewhere.



THUNDERWEAR. ...
Thunderwear holsters pop up on eBay every so often, ...

Much as I like eBay, I am reluctant to hang Big Jim and the Twins in/near anything that I didn't remove new from the sealed package.

Agent6-3/8
11-01-2011, 09:27
I've never given the first thought to a belt. I wear a leather belt from Wal-mart or sometimes if I'm going to carry out of the waist band I'll wear my brown leather underbelt I wear on-duty with a Bianchi slide-on. I can see how the belt would make some difference on OWB, but IWB?

Also, the woman says no new guns. Got remodeling to do this winter. So the list above is what I have on the smaller end of the handgun scale.

Huge difference and I suspect very much of your problem. Normal belts are far too soft to carry the weight of a gun. (even "heavy duty store bought ones) They stretch, sag, twist and make packing a real PITA. To compensate for the lack of support you end up having to wear it very tight to the point its very uncomfortable. Even for IWB they let the gun droop and sag away from your body. Eventually, the user ends up in your situation; leaving your gun at home . I suggest you invest in a good purpose built gun belt. I personally like a kydex reinforced belt. You can get a good one that won't cost a fortune.

http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=43

http://www.511tactical.com/All-Products/Accessories/Belts/Operator-Belt-1-34-Wide.html

http://www.akerleather.com/off-duty-belts.php?cat=off-duty-concealed-carry-gunbelt&name=Concealed+Carry+Gunbelt

http://www.thewilderness.com/storepinnacle/index.php?p=product&id=2309&parent=142

I used to be a hardcore old school leather guy, but the adjsutability of the nylong belts have won me over. If you've got a local cop shop, stop in and check out the 5.11 Operator belt I linked above. I've got a couple and they've really been great. I use them for off duty as well as under my duty rig. I like the 1.75" width as well. (and it still works with my 1.5" holsters...)

scottydl
11-01-2011, 09:29
Much as I like eBay, I am reluctant to hang Big Jim and the Twins in/near anything that I didn't remove new from the sealed package.

Hehe, understood... most of the Thunderwear holsters I've seen on eBay ARE brand new from authorized company resellers. Not someone else's used sweaty crotch holster! :faint:

Gear
11-01-2011, 10:46
Everyone raves about the Galco holsters but I've not tried one. I will say it does not look very comfortable, but looks can be deceiving.

I had a chance to buy a Kahr compact .45 for $200 last month. Didn't have the cash.


As far as I'm concerned it's the best holster I've ever bought/worn. I've been carrying in it since April and I love it so much I'm going to buy a second one. I think its very comfortable and it also lends to easy one handed reholstering. :supergrin:

PinkoCommie
11-01-2011, 12:13
As you can see, there are many solutions that work differently for different folks. I am not a big guy (6'1" 175lbs.), and I carry ALL THE TIME, unless I am at the swimming pool. A G26 inside a FIST tuckable IWB holster does the trick for me. I have other holsters for certain situations (like OWB where I will be wearing a suit or coat but with pants that won't accomodate IWB), but the FIST holster covers my need 95% of the time. I can easily conceal with that setup in a pair of shorts and a t-shirt. I use a nylon belt with a friction buckle (kinda like the 5.11 operator someone suggested) most of the time. I find that with holes in the belt, the most comfortable and secure position is always between holes (no stupid jokes now, ok?), so I prefer the friction buckle.

Good luck. Let us know what you end up with. I keep learning and re-thinking, and I arrived at my current setup through suggestions I read right here on CT. FIST is da bomb, but comp-tac is fantastic as well.

collim1
11-01-2011, 12:43
Huge difference and I suspect very much of your problem. Normal belts are far too soft to carry the weight of a gun. (even "heavy duty store bought ones) They stretch, sag, twist and make packing a real PITA. To compensate for the lack of support you end up having to wear it very tight to the point its very uncomfortable. Even for IWB they let the gun droop and sag away from your body. Eventually, the user ends up in your situation; leaving your gun at home . I suggest you invest in a good purpose built gun belt. I personally like a kydex reinforced belt. You can get a good one that won't cost a fortune.

http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=43

http://www.511tactical.com/All-Products/Accessories/Belts/Operator-Belt-1-34-Wide.html

http://www.akerleather.com/off-duty-belts.php?cat=off-duty-concealed-carry-gunbelt&name=Concealed+Carry+Gunbelt

http://www.thewilderness.com/storepinnacle/index.php?p=product&id=2309&parent=142

I used to be a hardcore old school leather guy, but the adjsutability of the nylong belts have won me over. If you've got a local cop shop, stop in and check out the 5.11 Operator belt I linked above. I've got a couple and they've really been great. I use them for off duty as well as under my duty rig. I like the 1.75" width as well. (and it still works with my 1.5" holsters...)

I have a 1.75" 5.11 belt that is a beast. It can tote a P226 and 2 spare mags easy.

I also have a Beltman belt 1.5" horse hide belt that is I love, and it fits the belt slots almost perfectly in most holsters.

Ajon412
11-01-2011, 13:16
You may want to take a look at the Concealed Carry Clothiers double thickness "Casual Gun Belt" and a Kytac Braveheart IWB holster setup. I've been carrying a handgun for a long time and this, by far, is the best set up I've found that works for me. Holster and belt designs have really come a LONG way since the early 80's.

http://www.concealedcarry.com/products/Casual-Gun-Belt

http://www.kytac.net/

So out of what I have listed below (which are guns that are currently in my inventory) what would you choose and what rig/method would you choose to carry it?

Glock 32C

Glock 22 (my personal duty gun)

Rossi 461

Sig P6

Bryco .380 (lol)

Which weapon system are YOU most proficient with and feel more comfortable carrying? All of you current choices are better that carrying a pointy stick and as mentioned, something is better than nothing. As DaBigBR stated, there is no universal solution to your dilemma...Good Luck...:wavey:

fastbolt
11-01-2011, 14:29
There was a time in my early LE career when I grew tired of carrying a full-size .357 Magnum revolver or my Commander off-duty. The early IWB holsters for revolvers could especially become a pain-in-the-butt, and then there was the problem of appropriate cover garments, regardless of the weather.

I briefly went the route of the sub-caliber pistols ('sub-caliber' meaning less than service caliber, such as .22, .25, .380 in my case).

I tried the slightly smaller 5-shot revolvers, like the steel J's and a couple of Charter Arms Bulldogs in .44 Spl. The weight of the all-steel J's and Bulldogs (and the reliability of the CA .44's) became issues in my case.

Then, I discovered the S&W 3913. It became my primary off-duty weapon for some time.

Subsequent years have given us an ever-increasing wealth of smallish pistols, chambered in the more commonly found service/defensive calibers, and really lightweight DA/DAO revolvers, from which to choose. I certainly have a fair number of them. :whistling:

If you presently don't have something that's satisfying your daily needs and desires, it might be helpful to look around.

You're still going to have to remember that compromise in clothing selection is sometimes necessary, but it's a far better situation today than it was 30 years ago.

You might also find that some further training and a change in your practice regimen might be in order. I found that to be the case in my situation, which is why I finally decided to become a LE firearms instructor at one point. Over time I found it more helpful to shift my attention more toward the skillset/mindset and less toward the specific weapons.

I would offer that at least you're expressing the desire to find a way to continue carrying an off-duty weapon, which is a good step. From what I've heard in some seminars in recent years, it appears that only 20% (or less) off-duty cops are even carrying weapons. Hard to take some types of enforcement actions (and arguably foolish to try to do so) if you're unarmed and unprepared to face the dangers of some situations.

I've made it a practice over the years to stop making specific recommendations regarding off-duty weapon choice to folks. I'll recommend they try examples of anything & everything they're considering, and let them choose for themselves.

Instead of pushing them toward a specific choice, I'll encourage them to choose for themselves, but to invest more range time in both their selection process, as well as with learning to more effectively use what it is they eventually choose. I push more on getting their attention back on the tool-user, instead of the tool, itself. They can choose the tool, I'll work with them to better use whatever it is they've chosen.

Carry methods vary. So do belts. I don't know what a "normal belt" might be to everyone else, because I've seen and owned so many different belts over the years ... bought off the rack or special ordered ... that I no longer have any idea what a "normal belt" might be to someone else.

I have, however, found quite a variety of belts (of various designs, thicknesses, widths, finishes, etc) that suited my needs when it came to different clothes. I have "gun belts" that work with jeans, shorts and dress slacks. While I've owned some belts made by some big names in holsters and leather gear, I've actually found belts which carried my various belt holsters more comfortably, and with good support, on the racks of various commercial stores. Of course, it's involved some trial & error over the years.

Now, while I happen to find the ubiquitous J-frames to suit my needs and desires for more easily carried off-duty & retirement weapons, especially the Airweights ... I realize that most of the guys & gals entering LE nowadays have never handled and used a firearm, especially a revolver. That makes using the DA/DAO revolver, especially those of the diminutive lightweight sort, a harder thing for them to learn. It's a bit different taking someone who carries a 6-shot service revolver and working with them to apply their skillset and experience to using a smaller 5-shot revolver, than taking someone who's just learned to shoot a full-size service pistol and handing them a 5-shot wheelgun. :shocked:

Now, I'll also grant that their are some times and circumstances where I will not leave the house armed. I don't make that sort of decision for anyone else, nor does it interest me what other folks may think about my choice. My agency did not require us to be armed on our own time, and it's certainly an optional choice as a retiree (and I've known of what might be a surprising number of retired LE who had no desire to CCW).

If finding a different handgun design/platform - and carry method - will allow you more choices in continuing to carry an off-duty weapons, then it might serve you to explore those options. You're still going to have to work within whatever policies & procedures exist at your agency, of course.

Can't afford a new one now? (Like that's an uncommon situation for most younger working cops. :rofl: ) Well, then you work with what you have available and compromise where you feel it's workable.

Or, you don't carry an off-duty weapon.

But then, you knew all of these things when you started this thread. :)

Sometimes it just helps to hear the experiences of other folks, though.

S. Kelly
11-01-2011, 14:40
Swap the G32c for a G23/27, buy an IWB holster and suck it up. Dress around the gun if you have to. This way, your .40 ammo is cheap (if the Dept gives it to you) and the gun can be set up like your duty G22.
A G27 could also be used as an on duty back-up gun.

DaBigBR
11-01-2011, 14:44
So out of what I have listed below (which are guns that are currently in my inventory) what would you choose and what rig/method would you choose to carry it?

Glock 32C

Glock 22 (my personal duty gun)

Rossi 461

Sig P6

Bryco .380 (lol)

Out of what you own I would do the G32c in an MTAC for IWB, a Galco Combat Master for OWB, and a Smart Carry for deeper concealment...those are the methods I'm using with my G19s.

Kadetklapp
11-01-2011, 14:51
I appreciate the tons of good advice. Not selling the G32. It's my favorite Glock and the first handgun I ever owned. Not making that mistake.

However, I am considering selling my HK USP safe queen and buying a small Glock or a Kahr. I hate to do it, but with the money from the HK I can get a good backup/off-duty and I can get a good carry rig for it, plus at the same time have a couple hundred bucks to put into framing a new downstairs bathroom for the man cave.

I forgot to mention, I HATE wearing a belt. I have ever since I was a kid. IDK why, whether it be laziness, discomfort, etc, but I've just never been a belt-wearer. Of course that is part of my problem I'm sure, but I digress...

Chuck54
11-01-2011, 16:12
Get the gear you need to make you comfy carrying the G32.

Lt Scott 14
11-01-2011, 16:52
Kadet, been there myself on off duty carry. So many choices that may or maybe not work. G19 duty/ S&W 442 off duty.
I sometimes use the cheapo Glock plastic "band aid" holster and mag case. Belt choice now is the 5.11 w/ velcro adjustment. 1.75 in wide seems to cover all options.
When iwb is selected, Desantis has a few offerings also. A favorite one is nylon padded w/ the metal clip (Desantis brand). Can't recall the model, similar to the "Tuck This" one. A lot of people prefer thumb breaks, I prefer wet molded to the gun, maybe a screw adjustment.
After filling two tubs with slightly used holsters, my needs change as my clothing changes.

DaBigBR
11-01-2011, 16:57
FWIW I love my 1.75" 5.11 web belt, but a lot of holsters are only available in 1.5" and I also find that my cell phone case (Otterbox) is also not compatible with the bigger belt. The 1.5" version works fine, though.

Kadetklapp
11-01-2011, 16:57
I've got my G32 in front of me now. It looks huge for an off-duty piece, but really it tucks nicely against my portly fat roll. It's really not too bad. I just need a decent holster (and a belt). I can't bear the thought of parting with my beloved USP, so I'm glad I can see the 32 working...

Bodyarmorguy
11-01-2011, 17:17
Off-duty carry is about commitment, not compromise. I am average build at 5'10"/190 pounds. My routine off-duty dress and carry usually runs something like this:

Pants = cargo shorts, cargo pants, jeans or dockers
Shirt = Polo or camp shirt
Pistol = G22, G23, Colt Gov or Colt OACP in an IWB holster or CBS belt scabbard holster, both from www.5shotleather.com . Other pistol option is a G27 in a Galco ankle glove.
A spare mag and a Taser C2 carried on the off side.

I am not dressed like a bum, nor do I compromise by carrying a .380, .32 or similar mouse gun. When others tell me that on-duty they carry .380's or .32's as a "back up" I remind them that if their primary gun fails for whatever reason, their back-up just became their primary. Applying that same logic to off-duty carry, you small gun is already your primary.

razdog76
11-01-2011, 17:41
Another nod for a G27, there are few guns that size that are reliable, and carry a bunch of ammo too.

Although everyone talks about how thin P220's and P6 (P225) are, if you actually compare it to a G22, they are the same overall thickness, and very close in overall length.

The Sigs feel smaller in the hand, but the G22 has twice as much ammo, and spare mags are in the neighborhood of $20.

maddog3241
11-01-2011, 21:44
FWIW I love my 1.75" 5.11 web belt, but a lot of holsters are only available in 1.5" and I also find that my cell phone case (Otterbox) is also not compatible with the bigger belt. The 1.5" version works fine, though.

I am with DaBigBR. I use the same belt, with a MTAC Minatuar(sp) Spartan IWB and I carry my G 22 everyday all day. I just stick the extra mag in my offside back pocket. Works for me.

Oh and I am 5'9" and 225.

53Buck
11-02-2011, 09:33
Swap the G32c for a G23/27, buy an IWB holster and suck it up. Dress around the gun if you have to. This way, your .40 ammo is cheap (if the Dept gives it to you) and the gun can be set up like your duty G22.
A G27 could also be used as an on duty back-up gun.

^
This.

I understand financial pressures, but the wife needs to understand this is NOT just a frivolous desire. It's something you need for your job. Try the old "I'm not buying a new gun because I want to, I'm trading a gun (or guns) that are sitting around unused for something that I need to keep me alive so I can come home every night". If she doesn't go for that, she's needs to get her head straight.
And I would second the recommendation for trading the G32c for a G27. Sell the Bryco and get a Blade-Tech IWB like this one (http://blade-tech.com/In-the-Waistband-Universal-Fits-All-Holster-pr-814.html).
I carried one for about 3 years and love it. Easy on, easy off, the smooth kydex doesn't tug at my drawers or shirt, won't shift, collapse or come unhooked like a cheap Uncle Mike nylon clip.
I like it so much that I find myself digging it out of my locker sometimes in favor of my new PM9 in its Crossbreed.

ropin4gold
11-02-2011, 20:30
I carry a G23 on "duty". I carry concealed as part of my job. I have found that the blade tec kydex IWB at 4:30 works the best for me. Sometimes I wear an OWB holster (Galco Concealable) and cover it up with an untucket button up shirt. This time of year it is getting much easier to carry concealed (colder weather). However you do it, I recommend the G32 and a GOOD belt. I use a wilson combat sharkskin 1.5 inch belt. Yes it was expensive but I bought it in 2001 and have carried every day with that belt since then. Still works good.

scottydl
11-03-2011, 08:33
If anyone IS interested in Thunderwear, the manufacturer just posted them on eBay ... brand new to your specification for $39.99 shipped. Best price I've seen.

www.ebay.com/itm/330635976845

I get nothing from the referral, I just really like 'em!

AngryBassets
11-03-2011, 10:52
A S&W Airweight Centennial (442/642) is an excellent choice for discreet pocket carry...even with nice casual attire or even a suit.

Addition of Crimson Trace laser grips greatly increases shooter confidence with snubbie revolvers.

This. I carry mine all summer (fitted t and cargo shorts) A-IWB in an ancient but awesome Bianchi holster.

I'm a t-shirt and jeans person, but if I have to get dressed up a little bit (say for church or out to eat) then that usually means tucking in my shirt. That means no IWB. I do NOT like ankle-carry one bit. Short of pocket carry IDK what else to do.

I'm trying to stay away from revolvers for ODC.

This disqualifies my advice. I carry a 642 almost every day. I've gotten quite lazy, and now that it's cooler, there's usually a Glock 27 on my ankle.

jwhite75
11-03-2011, 11:36
I've never given the first thought to a belt. I wear a leather belt from Wal-mart or sometimes if I'm going to carry out of the waist band I'll wear my brown leather underbelt I wear on-duty with a Bianchi slide-on. I can see how the belt would make some difference on OWB, but IWB?

Also, the woman says no new guns. Got remodeling to do this winter. So the list above is what I have on the smaller end of the handgun scale.


I thought the same thing about a new belt until I got a new one. Try looking at Beltman or for a little cheaper Looper Law Enforcement.

The gun specific belts are more $$ but are way better made, and will last long enough to even out with replacement of cheap belts. You Glock 32 or P6 would be the berries. I personally would do the 32 because it is gonna be roughly the same size as the p6 and has more rounds on board to stop a fight when needed. Once you get good gear you will wonder how you did without it and not carrying a gun will feel weird.

jwhite75
11-03-2011, 11:42
I've got my G32 in front of me now. It looks huge for an off-duty piece, but really it tucks nicely against my portly fat roll. It's really not too bad. I just need a decent holster (and a belt). I can't bear the thought of parting with my beloved USP, so I'm glad I can see the 32 working...


I have a nice little roll too, and I carry a 23 everyday with nobody knowing ever.

Cochese
11-03-2011, 11:58
Why are you married to that G32c? I felt the same way about my first police gun, an HK USP. Kept it around forever. Finally, I came to my senses and sold it for a lot of money. I think around $700!

You could almost buy two guns!

How about if you MUST keep that G32c, you buy a G23 barrel and mags for it? Then, it will shoot your department .40 ammo.

Kadetklapp
11-03-2011, 12:03
Why are you married to that G32c? I felt the same way about my first police gun, an HK USP. Kept it around forever. Finally, I came to my senses and sold it for a lot of money. I think around $700!

You could almost buy two guns!

How about if you MUST keep that G32c, you buy a G23 barrel and mags for it? Then, it will shoot your department .40 ammo.

Because I like it?

Cochese
11-03-2011, 12:07
Because I like it?

I like lots of guns. The way I see it, if you can't or wont carry it, it ain't gonna do you a lot of good.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Cochese
11-03-2011, 12:22
Out of your choices, I'd be tempted to carry the 9mm single stack Sig. Or sell it for $400 and buy a G27 to match your G22.

Pocket carry that sucker in a Nemesis!

Goldstar225
11-03-2011, 15:45
Unril I got a Crossbreed Supertuck (CBST)I tended to pocket carry my 642 as my off duty weapon. Once I started using the Supertuck the 642 was relegated to a trip to the store for milk. With the CBST, velcro lined belt and "v" clips I can carry my G-23 or Kahr K40 totally and comfortably concealed under a tucked in button up shirt. I no longer have an excuse to not be well armed.

Kadetklapp
07-10-2012, 14:45
Thought that I would just update this-

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh192/kadetklapp/IMG_2548.jpg

It's very comfortable to carry around with just an Uncle Mikes IWB. I will look at upgrading to a tuckable holster later on. It's a bit of a handful, and it doesn't like to cycle HP ammo or be limpwristed (my wife has a hard time with it).

Probably will put a one round mag extension on it. But, as a gun I can toss in my coat pocket or IWB, I'm happy with it, more so than I was my old revolver.

DonGlock26
07-10-2012, 16:58
Thought that I would just update this-

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh192/kadetklapp/IMG_2548.jpg

It's very comfortable to carry around with just an Uncle Mikes IWB. I will look at upgrading to a tuckable holster later on. It's a bit of a handful, and it doesn't like to cycle HP ammo or be limpwristed (my wife has a hard time with it).

Probably will put a one round mag extension on it. But, as a gun I can toss in my coat pocket or IWB, I'm happy with it, more so than I was my old revolver.

Sounds good, and we all know that it works. ;)


_

blueiron
07-10-2012, 19:41
What is it? I am not familiar with that pistol.

Cochese
07-10-2012, 19:50
Looks like a Kel Tec PF-9?

ggarciatx
07-10-2012, 20:01
Thought that I would just update this-

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh192/kadetklapp/IMG_2548.jpg

It's very comfortable to carry around with just an Uncle Mikes IWB. I will look at upgrading to a tuckable holster later on. It's a bit of a handful, and it doesn't like to cycle HP ammo or be limpwristed (my wife has a hard time with it).

Probably will put a one round mag extension on it. But, as a gun I can toss in my coat pocket or IWB, I'm happy with it, more so than I was my old revolver.

Noticed you posted it won't cycle JHPs. That is what you should be carrying. Any Semi that won't cycle JHPs is not one to rely on completely. Try some of the Remington 115 grain JHPs or the Federal 9BP round. Those have a shape that should help with feeding problems in finicky semi-autos. Friends dad will shoot those two out of an old WW2 Luger and they function fine where it will jam with other rounds. Same goes for limpwristing. See if you can find some flitz or Maas metal polish and hand polish the ramp. Hope it breaks in and works better for you.

blueiron
07-10-2012, 20:03
Looks like a Kel Tec PF-9?


Thanks. I never kept up on KelTec.

Ajon412
07-10-2012, 20:57
Best of luck with it and use what works best for you...:wavey:

Kadetklapp
07-11-2012, 07:07
Noticed you posted it won't cycle JHPs. That is what you should be carrying. Any Semi that won't cycle JHPs is not one to rely on completely. Try some of the Remington 115 grain JHPs or the Federal 9BP round. Those have a shape that should help with feeding problems in finicky semi-autos. Friends dad will shoot those two out of an old WW2 Luger and they function fine where it will jam with other rounds. Same goes for limpwristing. See if you can find some flitz or Maas metal polish and hand polish the ramp. Hope it breaks in and works better for you.

I was attributing the problems to being a tight, new, undersized pistol. I'm hoping it will break in but I'm not banking on it. Going to try and polish the ramp myself and if that doesn't do it, may send it out for a fluff and buff. If that doesn't do the trick I'll unload it at a gun show or something. I may try some Powr' Ball type ammo with the plastic tip to see if that gives it some extra slide.

The limp wristing she is having I think is just due to it being such a tight little gun and she has issues with semi autos anyway.

Mayhem like Me
07-11-2012, 09:07
OPEN CARRY COULD PREVENT THIS...Sorry.. I had to.

MeefZah
07-11-2012, 09:20
Kadet, I'm not one to bust on another guy's choice of gun, but I've owned 2 of those and neither was reliable or confidence inspiring.

I would not trust my life to it.

But, if it is that or nothing, I guess it is better than nothing.

S.O.Interceptor
07-11-2012, 20:05
I'm going with Meefzah on this one.

I know it's new and you like it, but if it isn't 100% it's gotta go. I don't buy "break in" periods for guns. It works out of the box, every time, with all ammo, or it stays in the box and gets sold.

I'm glad you're finally carrying something, but how in the hell is it that you couldn't bother to carry a P3AT? I carry one even in cotton shorts to go jogging. And I carry a Glock 27 or 22 with a TLR1 if I'm wearing anything heavier than lightweight shorts.

Vigilant
07-11-2012, 20:16
Kadet, I'm not one to bust on another guy's choice of gun, but I've owned 2 of those and neither was reliable or confidence inspiring.

I would not trust my life to it.

But, if it is that or nothing, I guess it is better than nothing.

I must also agree. I have owned a couple of Kel Tecs, and they are a decent, cheap gun. Ruger, Taurus and Kahr all make good compact Nines. This one gets my vote if you want bang for the buck:

http://www.budspolicesupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2_21/products_id/143

$345 shipped to your FFL. The CM9 is only $23 more, if that floats your boat.

SEARTraining
07-11-2012, 20:22
I am a laid back jeans and t-shirt or polo shirt kind of guy. I never dress “tacticool”. Wearing a uniform and duty belt for 8 or 16 hours a day…I try to be as free from equipment as possible on my days off. If I am in shorts-Kahr PM9. Jeans-Glock 33 .357 Sig. You will like the round if you are a .357 Mag kind of guy. I carry AIWB.

Due to the nature of my “hobby” I demo allot of holsters. Out of all of the holsters I have demoed I have yet to find the perfect one. So I started making my own kydex holsters. I control everything about the holster to make it to my exact specifications. So far, it’s been a fun project. The Glock Tec MIC Razor Edge, Remora, High Noon Split Decision, Fist, and Crossbreed holsters have all served me well.

I would stay away from the Kel-Tec PF9 or Diamondback DB9. I have heard allot of negative about their street performance. M&P Shield seems to be the hot item right not. I have also herd allot of officers calling the Berretta Nano the “Mini Glock” with positive feedback. My PM9 has been great. My G33…it’s a GLOCK, nuf said.

Take care!

RetailNinja
07-11-2012, 21:26
Off duty carry, all the time
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j314/turbotension/GEAR/IMG_4754.jpg

Buy T-shirts one size larger than you wear, and wear undershirts to help the oversize shirt hang better off your shoulders. I also started wearing these. My EXgf HATED them, saying they made me look like an old guy, BUT the plaid hides printing like no other.
http://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=64803&vid=1&pid=576152&scid=576152022
PLUS, between Old Navy, GAP and Banana Republic, there are about a thousand patterns and styles to choose from.

SCSU74
07-11-2012, 22:45
OPEN CARRY COULD PREVENT THIS...Sorry.. I had to.

Haha good joke


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

Creatism
07-11-2012, 23:00
Thought that I would just update this-

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh192/kadetklapp/IMG_2548.jpg

It's very comfortable to carry around with just an Uncle Mikes IWB. I will look at upgrading to a tuckable holster later on. It's a bit of a handful, and it doesn't like to cycle HP ammo or be limpwristed (my wife has a hard time with it).

Probably will put a one round mag extension on it. But, as a gun I can toss in my coat pocket or IWB, I'm happy with it, more so than I was my old revolver.

I have one and it does not like 115g ammo of any kind! I use 124g critical defense in mine and it's flawless. Practice with 124 to. Although periodically I do 115 just for the mal function drills.




Typed from my iPhone with my thumbs!!

Kadetklapp
07-12-2012, 07:54
It was an issue of cost, size/weight, and did I mention cost? Someone said I should be carrying a p3at....why?? The pf9 I have is more reliable than any .380 I have ever shot. The shield, kahrs, and sigs were far out of my price range. I will try some heavier rounds in it.

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Cochese
07-12-2012, 08:37
It was an issue of cost, size/weight, and did I mention cost? Someone said I should be carrying a p3at....why?? The pf9 I have is more reliable than any .380 I have ever shot. The shield, kahrs, and sigs were far out of my price range. I will try some heavier rounds in it.

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I sure as hell ain't gonna fault you. I had a P3AT and it was fine once I F&B'd it. I still have a LCP. I think its gonna go bye bye for a LC9 though. I think its a fine choice. And at least you effing carry off duty unlike some of them coworkers of mine!

mikegun
07-12-2012, 12:53
I have one and it does not like 115g ammo of any kind! I use 124g critical defense in mine and it's flawless. Practice with 124 to. Although periodically I do 115 just for the mal function drills.




Typed from my iPhone with my thumbs!!

I have a late number pf9 and a p3at that i alternate as a bu gun, i have found that mide are very reliaple and accurate and will cycle anything u put through them....very comfyto carry in pocket, ankle or hip iwb...

S.O.Interceptor
07-12-2012, 20:06
It was an issue of cost, size/weight, and did I mention cost? Someone said I should be carrying a p3at....why?? The pf9 I have is more reliable than any .380 I have ever shot. The shield, kahrs, and sigs were far out of my price range. I will try some heavier rounds in it.

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If you're referring to my post, I didn't say you should be carrying a P3AT. I read someone else's post where they said they didn't even carry their P3AT anymore, and thought it was you who posted it. I was wondering how it was that a P3AT was too inconvenient. But you weren't the one who posted it, so disregard.

However, my P3AT has fed every weight and type of round I've ever put through it. I'd rather have .380 that works every time than a 9mm that doesn't.

Mainly I'm just hoping that it works for you when you need it and I'm glad you're finally carrying something.

RetailNinja
07-12-2012, 22:00
And at least you effing carry off duty unlike some of them coworkers of mine!

Sounds like some co-workers of yours need to be slapped on the mouth.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ioDgwlMoCBM/TV7OPKnNDGI/AAAAAAAAAAU/UqHKg1P2xFo/s1600/monkey-slap.jpg#slap%20on%20the%20face

Cochese
07-12-2012, 23:20
Agree wholeheartedly.

CJStudent
07-13-2012, 08:01
I sure as hell ain't gonna fault you. I had a P3AT and it was fine once I F&B'd it. I still have a LCP. I think its gonna go bye bye for a LC9 though. I think its a fine choice. And at least you effing carry off duty unlike some of them coworkers of mine!

I hear you. We have several of us that are pretty into guns and carry all the time off duty, and we've got a lot that say "why do I need to carry a gun on my own time?"

Granted, we don't have much in the way of authority off duty, but I and a few coworkers of mine have run into former inmates off duty. Do you want to run into the one you had issues with inside the fence once they're out, and not have the means to protect yourself?

Glad to hear you're carrying something, Kadet.

Gear
07-13-2012, 09:46
I hear you. We have several of us that are pretty into guns and carry all the time off duty, and we've got a lot that say "why do I need to carry a gun on my own time?"

Granted, we don't have much in the way of authority off duty, but I and a few coworkers of mine have run into former inmates off duty. Do you want to run into the one you had issues with inside the fence once they're out, and not have the means to protect yourself?

Glad to hear you're carrying something, Kadet.

I'm with you CJ. A few of our guys carry when they aren't working, but not very many carry all the time. Myself I would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

Vigilant
07-13-2012, 12:20
Murphy's Law.

fastbolt
07-14-2012, 11:12
I know I already posted in this thread topic, but I thought I'd add something else.

Some statistics reportedly seem to indicate that maybe only up to 20% of active (working) cops carry off-duty weapons. I'm not exactly surprised (although I'd hoped the numbers would have been a bit higher).

You'd think (hope) that with the increase of diminutive pistols chambered in actual service/defensive calibers ... and the resurgence in popularity of 5-shot snubs ... this number might start to increase.

I was at a LEOKA class in the south bay area within the last couple of months. (The FBI's Law Enforcement Officers Killed & Assaulted) Since this was a class dedicated to understanding the circumstances and reasons cops have been (and can be) assaulted & killed, you'd think the cops attending might represent a segment of working cops who were seriously concerned about the inherent dangers faced every day. (Instructors, as well.) At one point in the day the instructor asked the cops attending the class (by a show of hands) how many were armed. Maybe 60% of the hands went up.

Okay, back to the OP's subject ...

Whatever you choose, make sure it feeds & functions in your hands, using good quality ammunition, and preferably either your agency armorer can service/repair it, or the manufacturer has a solid warranty/service system in place.

I try to avoid making disparaging comments about whatever handguns are chosen by folks when it comes to off-duty/secondary weapons. As long as it's something that's approved (by the agency), and it functions in an optimal, reliable manner for the owner/user, I really don't care what it is they choose.

Since we're talking about firearms that are going to be carried as dedicated defensive weapons by working cops, though, I tend to lean a bit toward the conservative side of things when it comes to brand new designs. Being a Beta Tester isn't something I enjoy doing. ;)

I just watched a second one of our guys bring a LC9 through a qual course-of-fire (try to, anyway). He experienced repeated light strikes using good quality duty ammo (as did the first owner). Really light hits on the primers. The gun is going back to Ruger for repair.

The first guy returned his LC9 to Ruger for inspection & repair. The company reported they corrected the light strike issue (weak spring) and a magazine drop issue. The owner took the gun to the range when he got it back and experienced some more light hits on primers, again using new duty ammo.

He got rid of the gun and returned to using his 642. I'd have given the company another chance at identifying & resolving whatever issue was involved, myself, but it was his gun, and his choice. (After all, there are lots of very satisfied owners who have reported good functioning with their LC9's.)

Meanwhile, he's currently waiting to try the LE version of the Shield 9. (Since the Shield subcompact is a new model based on the existing M&P design, I'd hope they got it right ... and I'm actually waiting to try one, myself. ;) )

Bottom line?

Pick something after some careful consideration, making the best informed decision you can ... and then confirm function & operation in your hands.

Maintain & service it as recommended by the manufacturer.

Make note of any ammunition restrictions and/or recommendations made by the firearm manufacturer.

Choose a good quality holster for whatever carry method works best for you, in the conditions and circumstances in which you intend to carry and use the weapon.

Practice.

Remember that it's still all about knowledge, experience, awareness, mindset and tactics. The smaller, lighter & "less powerful" weapon is still just a piece of equipment you carry.

texmex
07-14-2012, 12:05
Anything is better than nothing. A Ruger LCP or LCR may not be much, but it is way ahead of nothing. The odds of needing a firearm off duty are small, but they are not zero. Remember the off duty guy in the mall when the nut job started shooting people? What happens when you drop into the local stop and rob for a gallon of milk and you realize the guy at the front of the line is robbing the place? Talking about odds, what are the odds you will fire your duty weapon on your next shift? Would you consider leaving it at home? I don't know what size area you work in. I work in a major metropolitan area and I still run into people who know me and know I am an officer. Some of them, I have arrested in the past.

How about this scenario. You are driving down the road minding your own business when you see a brother officer on a traffic stop struggling with a suspect. You of course tell your significant other to get on the cell phone and call for help while you stop. Just as you get out of your vehicle, the perp gains control of the officers weapon. Your being un-armed may cost the life of the officer, you and your significant other. Watching a brother officer be killed without being in a position to act would drive most of us bonkers.

I know I am a gear whore, even though I now work plain clothes. I never leave the house without a firearm, two reloads, a knife, a cell phone and a flashlight. The firearm might be an LCR in my right pocket with ten loose rounds in my left pocket and the flashlight may be one of those little key chain jobs, but at least they will let me find my way out of a dark building during a power failure. At handshake distance, a magazine full of 380 or a cylinder full of 357 will at least put me in a position to break contact, take cover and call for help.

In 37 years I have only been in one OIS off duty. I have been in several incidents where I would not have been prepared to take action if I had been unarmed. In one of these instances, I walked up to the passenger side of a car one of my co-workers had stopped. While the other officer was talking to the driver, I observed a Colt Python barely sticking out from under his right leg. He was quite surprised when I yelled GUN and opened his passenger door. His eyes got even bigger when he looked down the barrel of my revolver. Sometimes a shooting can be avoided when the bad guy realizes he does not have any chance of survival. Turns out the guy had warrants. Sometimes I think God put me there to back up the other officer. I normally would not have even been in the area.

There is not much of an excuse nowadays for going totally unarmed. There are 380s and 9MMs the size off the old 25s and 32s. A Colt New Agent is about the same size as an old 380, just a little heavier. My 357 LCR fits in my jeans pocket just fine. That's a lot of power in a small package. I'll probably never need it, but it's comforting.

Mark9Fogger
07-14-2012, 19:52
I hear you. We have several of us that are pretty into guns and carry all the time off duty, and we've got a lot that say "why do I need to carry a gun on my own time?"

Granted, we don't have much in the way of authority off duty, but I and a few coworkers of mine have run into former inmates off duty. Do you want to run into the one you had issues with inside the fence once they're out, and not have the means to protect yourself?

Glad to hear you're carrying something, Kadet.
Great posts! I have ran into ex-felons that I dealt with negatively behind the wall on the streets. Because I carry every day when I am off-duty, every one of those encounters I was packing my G23 on me.

mntrpr
07-14-2012, 20:03
I can't remember the last time I left the house w/out a heater. I run, bike, mow the lawn w/a roscoe.

The only time I'm in public w/out one is when I'm in Jui Jitsu class, and I feel naked.

I think it would be hard to live with myself if something went down, and I couldn't stop it because it was too inconvenient to carry that day.

Ajon412
07-15-2012, 04:35
I was taking with a buddy of mine from my prior agency who relayed the following story that's pertinent to this topic. One of his colleagues is ALWAYS being busted on for carrying a gun just about everywhere he goes (he lives in da hood). Well, recently his girlfriend sends him down the block for cigarettes from the local stop-and-rob and since it's just "down the block" and it's summer time, he's attired in just a T-shirt, shorts and flip/flops and NO GUN. He enters the store and walks in on 2 perps who just did a robbery at gun point and they decide to rob him as well on their way out of the store. He gets searched and all he loses is some cash and not his life, as he was fortunate enough not to have his ID with him. Maybe this was fate, or he was just "really" lucky....:dunno:

...Always Carry Something...whether you're walking the dog, putting out the garbage, changing the oil in your car, doing yard work...Ya Never Know..How much effort does it really take to slide a 5 shot revolver in your front pocket with a couple of speed strips??...I don't consider it being paranoid, just being prepared....

Kadetklapp
07-15-2012, 13:00
I'm not happy with the gun. It cannot go thru a magazine without a FTE/double feed or somehow the rounds will nose down in the magazine. As if that's not bad enough, at ten yards the rounds are key holing like crazy. No excuse for that. For anyone considering a PF9, let my situation serve as an example. I thought it would do fine, watched all the YouTube videos and read the good vs. the bad, shot a P11 without issue, etc. However, this gun has a plethora of problems and is going to take some work. FML.

Vigilant
07-15-2012, 14:00
I'm not happy with the gun. It cannot go thru a magazine without a FTE/double feed or somehow the rounds will nose down in the magazine. As if that's not bad enough, at ten yards the rounds are key holing like crazy. No excuse for that. For anyone considering a PF9, let my situation serve as an example. I thought it would do fine, watched all the YouTube videos and read the good vs. the bad, shot a P11 without issue, etc. However, this gun has a plethora of problems and is going to take some work. FML.

I have a P11 stuffed away in a safe. Never skipped a beat, and for the price, it worked well, until more options came onto the market. That might still be an option for you, if money is tight. The wider grip seemed to make the recoil a bit less harsh as well.

I would still recommend the Kahr CW9. It's almost the exact same size, and an outstanding little gun for the money. I carry a P9, which is basically the same gun, and it rides perfectly in my right front pocket in a Nemesis.

lndshark
07-15-2012, 14:32
Go the second hand route and get a Kahr PM9. Years ago I was all set to pick up a PF9. My LGS was out...bummed, I looked at the P11...a bit too chunky for my liking. I was considering a new G26 until I spied a nice used PM9. It was $25 more than the PF9 I was intending to buy :upeyes:

Like you, I read/watched all the hype (Nuttin' Fancy) about the Kel-Tec (and I own a P3-AT). But, the PM9 is not only what I carry all of the time, but it's also my BUG, so I didn't mind spending the coin on a quality gun.

USSOCOM
07-15-2012, 15:24
This may have been suggested, but get a Comp-Tac MTAC IWB hybrid holster. You can tuck a shirt over it if you wish and is almost infinitely adjustable. You can easily and comfortably carry a medium framed Glock like your G32C.

Just remember, there is no universal or magic solution. Most of us that carry have a box full of holsters that are a testament to that fact.

Good luck.

Vigilant
07-15-2012, 16:29
I believe I read that some of the older polymer frame Kahrs were lemons. Buying used is not a bad idea, but I would do some research.

Kadetklapp
07-21-2012, 14:27
In light of recent events I've him to carrying my g32c in an eBay crossbreed holster along with an extra mag. The pf9 is absolute junk.

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CJStudent
07-21-2012, 14:46
In light of recent events I've him to carrying my g32c in an eBay crossbreed holster along with an extra mag. The pf9 is absolute junk.

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Glad to hear it, man! I know if I can conceal a G23, just about anybody can who tries!

Ajon412
07-21-2012, 17:36
In light of recent events I've him to carrying my g32c in an eBay crossbreed holster along with an extra mag. The pf9 is absolute junk.

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Good luck with your new set up and let us know how you like it....:wavey:

Kadetklapp
12-15-2012, 22:46
Recent events led me to purchase a gun for the wife and I this morning. It's comfortable in her hand and easy enough for me to carry as a back-up. Taurus Millenium Pro 9mm. So far it seems fine. I overpaid but due to the circumstances I didn't much care.

lawman800
12-15-2012, 23:54
Taurus 709 Slim, stoked with good 9mm FTW. The end. Very easy to carry and won't weigh you down.

Sharky7
12-15-2012, 23:55
Steichers just sent out their print magazine in the mail with the price of the S&W Shield for LE at $300.

Good deal for anyone looking...

Ajon412
12-16-2012, 00:44
Recent events led me to purchase a gun for the wife and I this morning. It's comfortable in her hand and easy enough for me to carry as a back-up. Taurus Millenium Pro 9mm. So far it seems fine. I overpaid but due to the circumstances I didn't much care.

Give us a range report after you put a few rounds through it...

GRIMLET
12-16-2012, 13:20
With all the recent shootings, I cannot understand what it will take for some officers to carry off duty.

LEOSA makes it so easy for us to carry off duty all across the USA. I consider it to be one of the best perks of the job.






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DaBigBR
12-16-2012, 13:27
Reasons guys don't carry:

-Convenience. It takes some effort and some money to be armed. A lot of folks aren't willing to put forth one, the other or both. I recall a former officer at my current agency who would not even take their gun home (single, no kids, so that wasn't the issue).

-Lack of desire. "I have to carry that damned thing 40 hours a week as it is" syndrome. Possibly "I've never had to use it on duty, why would I need it off duty", or "I'm not getting involved", etc as an alternative excuse. The logic is terribly flawed. This is where most of us are sticking with "I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it."

-Agency culture. Not every agency is pro-gun or pro-carry. Some may even be significantly against it. When new officers are hired and trained they learn from those around them. This can take years to fix.

-Agency policy. My agency doesn't allow officers in field training to carry off duty. There theory is that you can't carry on duty without direct observation and supervision at that time, so they won't let you carry off duty. I find it idiotic.

I believe that it is the responsibility of any off duty cop (full time, part time, reserve, etc) that has the ability to carry to do so whenever practicable. One of our lieutenants was talking about this lately and said that he felt that proper gun control had two components: tireless effort to keep the guns out of the hands of people who should not have them, and tireless effort to put guns in the hands of people who should. I like that.

Officer X
12-16-2012, 13:46
Used to carry a 23/27 off duty, recently went to an XDS .45 and I'm not looking back. I like this gun a lot for off duty, have about 250 rounds through it so far with no problems.

In an MTAC I don't even realize it's there

ranger1968
12-16-2012, 14:07
I carry a G19 off duty all the time, and I don't have to dress like a bum. You just have to dress around it, and really, have a good holster/carry setup. Not sure about your area and climate, but around here its pretty common to see people in slacks/jeans with a t-shirt on, and wearing a long sleeved shirt over that. It lends itself to hiding a medium compact sized auto fairly easy.

I carry the G19 pretty much year round now, in the same type of setup, usually IWB at 4-5 o-clock. I carry a spare G17 mag in a pocket for a reload, and I don't feel burdened or like my gun is printing all the time. I'm not what I consider huge at 5-11 and 185.

If its summertime, I sometimes "scale down" to a PPK or J-Frame in the pocket or on the ankle. I'm not a fan of shorts, so its not an issue for me. Generally though, I try to take a service sized automatic with me if I can. Looking at some of the others makes of guns, Kahr seems to have some good stuff. My dad has a Kahr P or CW45 he carries all the time, and its surprisingly small and thin. I can only imagine the 9mm and 40 guns are smaller.

Only other bit of "wisdom" I have gleaned from off duty carry is you have to dress around a gun to be comfortable - IE, buy pants large enough to fit comfortably with a piece, etc. Might have to adapt your style a bit too.



This is a good post;

I am carrying my G-23, which is my duty gun, both on and off-duty; I'm carrying a G-22 magazine as my spare; I'm not dressing like a bum (most of the time) and I'm in Florida, where you are dressing light the whole year....

It's all about dressing aorund the firearm, and having a good carry rig; I carried for a quite a few years in a Milt Sparks Summer Special, and while that was good, I found the newer hybrids to be even better; I used to carry in a Crossbreed Supertuck, and I was the first kid on the block to have one; I find the hybrid IWB to be one of the best ways to carry a service sized pistol concealed for long periods on an every day basis;

I am now carrying in one of these: http://www.hhholsters.com/product_p/ranger.htm

And it's even better than the Crossbreed (or the Comp-Tac) in terms of quality and construction; it's a full custom rig, at a really good price....coupled with good gun belt (I'm using a Beltman) it's a perfect carry option.....

Dress around the pistol, us a quality rig desinged for concealment, and you will be amazed how easy it is to carry your duty gun all the time.

lndshark
12-16-2012, 15:54
One of our lieutenants was talking about this lately and said that he felt that proper gun control had two components: tireless effort to keep the guns out of the hands of people who should not have them, and tireless effort to put guns in the hands of people who should. I like that.

An awesome point, Brad, and a refreshing point of view from someone higher up the food chain.

actionshooter10
12-16-2012, 16:42
I haven't been around much lately but I'll give my opinion.

What I'm going to suggest will require an outlay of cash but tax returns are just around the corner.

1. Comp-Tac carry belt (http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=43) (with velcro lining)-$105 It's 2 layers of leather sewn together with a strip of kydex in the middle. It's very sturdy. I've been wearing mine everyday since 2005.

2. Choice of many holsters including the C-Tac (http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=61)-$80, M-Tac (http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=95)=$85, or Spartan (http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=102)-$69. Get the Velcro clips with whichever holster you pick up.

All of these holsters are tuckable and are invisible when tucked in with the velcro belt and clips. An added bonus is that the velcro holds the holster in place MUCH more securely than the J or C clips.

They also offer LEO discounts so the prices I quoted won't be what you pay.

The added bonus is that you can carry anything you want with no issues.

I carry a G17 w/X300 in a C-Tac everyday. Sits very comfortably at 8 o'clock on the flat part of your butt.

Disclaimer: I worked there for a few months right before I went to the academy. I was able to see their QC firsthand and am still very impressed with their products. Should note that I was a customer way before I was employed there.

SCSU74
12-16-2012, 22:29
Love my ctac. Also carry 17 w/ x300 very easily


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Ajon412
12-16-2012, 22:47
An awesome point, Brad, and a refreshing point of view from someone higher up the food chain.

I agree 100%...That's definitely T-Shirt material......:thumbsup:

Kadetklapp
12-17-2012, 06:22
Heck, I went out to our range while on duty and banged out fifty rounds of blazer fmj with no problems...except from the 911 calls for shots fired. People are a bit jumpy even here in our small town.

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kayl
12-17-2012, 07:25
Another carry option to consider is Appendix IWB (AIWB). I can conceal pretty much anything, including a full-size m&p .40 under a T-shirt when carrying AIWB. Strong side, not so much.

My favorite AIWB holster that I've found is the Dale Fricke Archangel, but there are a bunch out there; check them out.

The biggest thing about AIWB is that you need to be cautious when holstering; if you do it quickly and without paying attention to where your muzzle is pointed, you will laser your femoral artery and possibly the family jewels...a ND would be bad at that point.

lawman800
12-17-2012, 07:58
Another carry option to consider is Appendix IWB (AIWB). I can conceal pretty much anything, including a full-size m&p .40 under a T-shirt when carrying AIWB. Strong side, not so much.

My favorite AIWB holster that I've found is the Dale Fricke Archangel, but there are a bunch out there; check them out.

The biggest thing about AIWB is that you need to be cautious when holstering; if you do it quickly and without paying attention to where your muzzle is pointed, you will laser your femoral artery and possibly the family jewels...a ND would be bad at that point.

Use a good holster and a gun with a safety.

kayl
12-17-2012, 08:10
Use a good holster and a gun with a safety.

+1 on a good holster, but I don't carry a gun with an external safety. Doing so would result in me carrying a gun off duty that is significantly different from my on duty gun. If you cant the butt of the gun into your stomach as you holster, you won't laser any part of your body.

Pistol-training and pistol-forum.com have some great info on AIWB if anyone is interested.

ColdSteelNail
12-17-2012, 10:25
http://www.budspolicesupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2_21/products_id/26

Problem solved. Try it with a Nemesis pocket holster. It has polygonal rifling to boot. Eats 124-grain +P Gold Dots like candy.
I carry a full-size P9 in my right front pocket, in a Nemesis, with ease.


This is an excellent choice. I have and carry a PM9. Seven rounds of 9MM. The long smooth trigger pull is similar to a quality revolver. It is much more accurate than a snubby.

Ajon412
12-17-2012, 13:39
-Lack of desire. "I have to carry that damned thing 40 hours a week as it is" syndrome. Possibly "I've never had to use it on duty, why would I need it off duty", or "I'm not getting involved", etc as an alternative excuse. The logic is terribly flawed. This is where most of us are sticking with "I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it."

THIS is the one that drives me nuts the most....:steamed:...You may not be looking for trouble, but it doesn't mean that trouble won't find you.

FM12
12-17-2012, 22:27
Been carrying an older Colt agent lightweight in .38 spl in my rear jeans pocket covered by a shirttail. Speed strip with 6 extra rounds is my walking around arsenal. Not high tech or hi cap, but powerful and simple.

lawman800
12-17-2012, 22:54
Went and qual'ed today... man... forgot how much pain it was to shoot an Airweight with full power loads. Now my right hand is numb.

G27Chief
12-18-2012, 02:02
Went and qual'ed today... man... forgot how much pain it was to shoot an Airweight with full power loads. Now my right hand is numb.

I forget that too at times, but love the 642! I grin my crooked little grin when the youngsters smirk at my wheel gun, then look at my score.:supergrin:

lawman800
12-18-2012, 08:45
Yeah, the little wheelgun will do if you do. Shot 90% with that gun.

Kadetklapp
12-18-2012, 11:28
I'm chuffing pleased with it.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh192/kadetklapp/IMAG0255-1.jpg

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CJStudent
12-18-2012, 11:33
I'm chuffing pleased with it.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh192/kadetklapp/IMAG0255-1.jpg

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My boss on the ARNG side carries something similar in .45 (I think the PT145); he's had it for years, shot and carried it a lot, and loves it.

DoogieHowser
12-18-2012, 12:17
Thunderwear?

RetailNinja
12-18-2012, 12:43
-Convenience. It takes some effort and some money to be armed. A lot of folks aren't willing to put forth one, the other or both. I recall a former officer at my current agency who would not even take their gun home (single, no kids, so that wasn't the issue).

-Lack of desire. "I have to carry that damned thing 40 hours a week as it is" syndrome. Possibly "I've never had to use it on duty, why would I need it off duty", or "I'm not getting involved", etc as an alternative excuse. The logic is terribly flawed. This is where most of us are sticking with "I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it."

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j314/turbotension/Picture481.jpg
My 'Involver'. :rofl:
Carried everywhere except the gym and vacations in Canada.

myrc
12-18-2012, 13:01
A S&W Airweight Centennial (442/642) is an excellent choice for discreet pocket carry...even with nice casual attire or even a suit.

Addition of Crimson Trace laser grips greatly increases shooter confidence with snubbie revolvers.

I heartily second this suggestion. I carry concealed quite comfortably in my left front pocket (pocket holster) with a regular S&W 642, Crimson laser grips, and a 6 round speed strip. I feel it's quite a handy trade as far as comfort, accuracy, dependability, and being easily concealable goes.

The only time I've had problem concealing this in a front pocket is one pair of slacks with very shallow pockets. In that example, I simply put it in my inside leather coat pocket and it was completely unnoticeable.

S&W 642:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764961_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Speer LE Gold Dot 38 +P 125Gr HP:
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/50rds-38-special-speer-le-gold-dot-125gr-p-hp-ammo

Crimson Trace laser grips LG-405 (perfect, unobtrusive):
http://www.crimsontrace.com/products/manufacturer/s-w-pistols-revolvers/01-1680

Mika's Pocket holster (simply superb):
http://www.frontiernet.net/~akim/

Hope that helps!

fastbolt
12-18-2012, 13:47
Since I lasted posted in this thread I've added a Ruger LCP to my collection.

Why? Because there are times when the short pockets of some of my jeans simply won't allow me to pocket holster one of my J's. (Spare me the admonishment about choosing different clothing and dressing around the weapon, or the "comforting versus comfortable" lecture ... since I've carried a weapon with a badge for more than 3 decades and have been a firearms instructor for just over 22 years of that time. I can probably figure out what best suits my perceived needs by now.)

After hearing some good owner feedback from other cops, I borrowed a friend's LCP for a while. It allowed me to be armed when I wasn't able to conceal a J-frame. Lighter & slimmer, too.

I bought one of my own. Tried 3 types of modern hollowpoints from 3 of the big ammo makers with good results. Experienced some excellent accuracy & controllability during a qual course-of-fire and some drills.

First .380 I've owned in at least 25 years.

The rudimentary front sight post machined into the LCP's carbon steel slide is harder to acquire & see clearly than even the thin front posts on my older J's. I can shoot my J's a bit better at distances beyond 15 yards (especially the pair of M&P 340's, with their XS front night sight and its bright white plastic ring), but I didn't buy the LCP for use at those distances.

So, when summer rolls back around and I want to stroll the beach communities along the coast, I can either carry one of my J's or the LCP, depending on the size of the pockets in my cargo shorts or jeans.

The larger pistols or revolvers can still serve when I'm wearing clothing that can allow their effective concealment, of course.

lawman800
12-18-2012, 20:47
Never felt comfortable with the LCP so I gave it up after two years of it and went with a 9mm or a J-frame.

blueiron
12-18-2012, 21:13
Is anyone using a Walther PPS in 9?

lawman800
12-18-2012, 21:16
Is anyone using a Walther PPS in 9?

Tried it but never could get past that funky magazine release ala HK style because I am not an operator but thankfully I didn't get kicked in the ding ding because it was only a Walther and not a HK.:whistling:

blueiron
12-18-2012, 21:23
Aside from the magazine release, what did you think about it?

lawman800
12-18-2012, 21:25
Didn't handle too poorly but too big and clunky for my purposes. Didn't do anything for me that my G26 couldn't do so I saw no reason to buy it. I was in the market for an ultra slim 9mm at the time so it was either the Kahr, PF9, or Taurus. Went with the Taurus because the Kahr was backordered for months and the KelTec was a POS.

blueiron
12-18-2012, 21:29
Thanks.

lawman800
12-18-2012, 21:32
Thanks.

You looking to get one?

I mean, for the price point, I don't see what it does over a Glock other than having some different controls and being a Walther.

I would prefer a XD Compact or even M&P Compact because those feel better in the hand.

blueiron
12-18-2012, 21:40
I had four Glock 27 pistols and tried to like every one of them. The grip just doesn't do it for me.

I want a thin single stack pistol, but the S&W Shield is impossible to find. Sorry, but I won't buy a XD pistol

lawman800
12-18-2012, 21:46
I had four Glock 27 pistols and tried to like every one of them. The grip just doesn't do it for me.

I want a thin single stack pistol, but the S&W Shield is impossible to find. Sorry, but I won't buy a XD pistol

Thin single stack 9mm?

Not much out there for that, other than what I have already named. Did you check Bud's for the Shield?

blueiron
12-18-2012, 21:55
Yep. Three S&W pistols available and they are all full sized pistols. I expect being unable to buy anything relatively popular for months because of the insanity.

Gombey
12-18-2012, 22:17
Yep. Three S&W pistols available and they are all full sized pistols. I expect being unable to buy anything relatively popular for months because of the insanity.

You may have some luck here:http://www.riverofguns.com/cb/index.pl?s=S%26W+Shield

mntrpr
12-18-2012, 22:38
I had four Glock 27 pistols and tried to like every one of them. The grip just doesn't do it for me.

I want a thin single stack pistol, but the S&W Shield is impossible to find. Sorry, but I won't buy a XD pistol

I have a shield, and love it. Have you tried a Kahr or LC9? I had a CW40, and CW9, sold them when I got the shield. I have not shot the LC9, but it's nice and thin.

Ajon412
12-19-2012, 03:14
What about a S&W 3953? I have the TSW version, which was my off duty carry on my prior department. It's light weight and very accurate. Guns America had quite a few listed for sale recently in the $300 range....:wavey:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/902361640/S_W_9mm_Compact_model_3953_Stainless_Double_Action_Only_VG_1_Magazine_Prince_George_s_County_Marylan d_Police_1992_Mfg_Smith_Wesson.htm

Kadetklapp
12-19-2012, 06:29
My boss on the ARNG side carries something similar in .45 (I think the PT145); he's had it for years, shot and carried it a lot, and loves it.

I put another 100 rounds thru it last night and it was smooth as silk. My wife has issues with it due to limpwristing but it's been fine for me.

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CJStudent
12-19-2012, 08:17
I put another 100 rounds thru it last night and it was smooth as silk. My wife has issues with it due to limpwristing but it's been fine for me.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

......be glad I have too much respect for you to comment on that appropriately :tongueout:

lawman800
12-19-2012, 08:56
LC9 felt cheap, guess I am still holding something against it from my LCP experiences.

The Smith 3rd gen series like the 908, Chief's Special, and 3913 are still fairly big and heavy. I think the Shield is a great choice.

blueiron
12-19-2012, 16:22
I like the single stack 39xx series, but I want something as light as possible in 9mm. Thus, the PPS or the Shield.

Mayhem like Me
12-19-2012, 16:41
I like the single stack 39xx series, but I want something as light as possible in 9mm. Thus, the PPS or the Shield.

I still regret selling 1 of my 639 with wood grips and the adjustable sights

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lawman800
12-20-2012, 01:06
I got two buddies who both swear by their 6906 Smiths.

rookie1
12-20-2012, 04:27
Thin single stack 9mm?

Not much out there for that, other than what I have already named. Did you check Bud's for the Shield?

A coworker and I were looking strongly at getting the Shield. I would like the single stack 9mm. He called Streichers to check on price and availability. LEO price was $399 however they are 3-4 months out with 77 people on their waiting list.

rookie1
12-20-2012, 04:38
Steichers just sent out their print magazine in the mail with the price of the S&W Shield for LE at $300.

Good deal for anyone looking...

How do you sign up to get print from them. I ordered duty gear from them 3 years ago and get nothing in the mail. I would like to get something with guns and prices, there is nothing on the site about LEO gun sales.

drew4691
12-20-2012, 15:41
i am a lazy carrier myself, but I just have a ruger lcp with a ct grip and pocket holster. when i go somewhere, just throw it in my front-right pocket, and off I go. 2 seconds, works with shorts, jeans, khaki pants, etc. Get one and an extra mag, and you won't regret it.

mntrpr
12-20-2012, 19:45
A coworker and I were looking strongly at getting the Shield. I would like the single stack 9mm. He called Streichers to check on price and availability. LEO price was $399 however they are 3-4 months out with 77 people on their waiting list.

3-4 months is more like 3-4 yrs. I have never seen a shield in that store.

Last I checked, all their AR's in 223, and 308 were sold within the last 24 hrs.

kayl
12-21-2012, 00:21
AtlanticTactical.com has the shield at $319 + $30 shipping for an officer price. They're back-ordered with about 12-15 on the waiting list :)

RetailNinja
12-21-2012, 02:47
I got two buddies who both swear by their 6906 Smiths.

1006 or GTFO!!!! :cool:

lawman800
12-21-2012, 08:50
1006 or GTFO!!!! :cool:

Dude, we just want to protect ourselves and family, we don't want to take out 5 city blocks with one launch.

Bill Lumberg
12-21-2012, 15:02
I'm at a loss. I simply do not find pocket carry to be adequate for anything but a walk to the mailbox. But I normally carry a glock or a 1911. With a proper belt and holster, concealment is easy even with an untucked tshirt. Are your shirts properly sized for your torso? Using a proper gunbelt off duty?

blueiron
12-21-2012, 15:45
Not every person finds themselves in a situation where they can be dressed in trousers and a loose casual shirt that permits a belt holstered medium to large size handgun.

I spend most of my time at a large university as a student and not even most professors dress in business casual. I dressed in age appropriate clothing as a non-traditional student for a couple of weeks and got too many interrogatories by staffers and even the university police. Good thing I wasn't carrying anything at the time, since it is against the law to do so.

With all the nonsense going on, I am going to start again, but I can't carry anything larger than a J frame or a single stack.

Not everyone is still on the job.

Hack
12-21-2012, 17:37
Not every person finds themselves in a situation where they can be dressed in trousers and a loose casual shirt that permits a belt holstered medium to large size handgun.

I spend most of my time at a large university as a student and not even most professors dress in business casual. I dressed in age appropriate clothing as a non-traditional student for a couple of weeks and got too many interrogatories by staffers and even the university police. Good thing I wasn't carrying anything at the time, since it is against the law to do so.

With all the nonsense going on, I am going to start again, but I can't carry anything larger than a J frame or a single stack.

Not everyone is still on the job.

Thunderwear?

Sent from my communicator.

lawman800
12-21-2012, 21:13
Thunderwear?

Sent from my communicator.

Gets in the way when you visit Champagne to donate to her college fund.:whistling:

CJStudent
12-22-2012, 06:40
Gets in the way when you visit Champagne to donate to her college fund.:whistling:

:rofl:

Bill Lumberg
12-22-2012, 08:23
Shorts and normal fitting t-shirt, glock sport, sidearmor, or crossbreed. Even a 5" 1911 is easily concealed. If it's just a confidence issue, a) don't carry where prohibited, and b) try a glock sport holster worn on an internal belt, over the boxers but under the trousers. I carried that way for years.

MeefZah
12-22-2012, 10:21
I spend most of my time at a large university as a student and not even most professors dress in business casual. I dressed in age appropriate clothing as a non-traditional student for a couple of weeks and got too many interrogatories by staffers and even the university police. Good thing I wasn't carrying anything at the time, since it is against the law to do so.
With all the nonsense going on, I am going to start again, but I can't carry anything larger than a J frame or a single stack.

Not everyone is still on the job.

LEOSA doesn't allow you to carry on a university campus?

Rex G
12-22-2012, 12:47
I avoid T-shirts most of the time, because a collar looks better, and when it is hot, collared shirts vent heat better. Fitted shirts complicate concealment, when used as the cover garment, so loose-cut polo-type shirts, and button-up shirts with square tails, one size up, work well to conceal some pistols as large as duty size.

My dad wears nicer button-up shirts, with square tails, to church, and he does not carry; there is NO reason to feel a need to tuck-in one's shirt under most circumstances.

Two key components to concealing a larger pistol are a proper belt, for support, and a holster that fits the belt, so the rig does not flop around. (I am sure previous replies in this thread have mentioned this.) I favor Milt Sparks, Bulman, and Kramer holsters, on Sparks, Kramer, and G. Wm. Davis belts, but for instant gratification, the Galco Concealable is a wonderful off-the-shelf holster.

Kadetklapp
12-26-2012, 12:30
I've found an unlikely ally for my new off duty gat: an old uncle Mike's nylon shoulder holster. This time of year I tend to wear a lot of sweatshirts instead of a coat or jacket. The old shoulder holster works fine under a hoodie or zip up sweatshirt. It's very nice to have more room in my waistband for, well, my waist (muffin top anyone?).

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mntrpr
12-26-2012, 16:20
Can you access the pistol quickly with the shoulder rig under the sweatshirt ?

Kadetklapp
12-26-2012, 20:29
Relatively quickly and honestly without drawing as much attention as drawing from the waist.

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lawman800
12-27-2012, 06:28
Relatively quickly and honestly without drawing as much attention as drawing from the waist.

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It would just look like you are scratching your armpit, no?

series1811
12-27-2012, 07:04
I work out of our state capitol, mostly, but I spend weekends in a small eclectic town on the gulf coast, a real artsy community.

I have found that carrying a fag bag with my Sig P226 in it is working for me again. Believe me, people there would freak if they knew I was carrying. It's that kind of town.

My girlfriend and I went to dinner with a friend of hers who is a female narcotics investigator and she asked me why her friend never carried a gun off duty but I did. I had to point out to her what an ankle holster was (and didn't she ever wonder why her friend had one fat ankle?) :supergrin:

Kadetklapp
12-27-2012, 09:54
Sure, or adjusting my flabby man-boob.

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JBS
12-27-2012, 10:22
Sure, or adjusting my flabby man-boob.

I did not read all 8 pages but have you looked at http://www.kangaroocarry.com/ they work very well.

Hack
12-27-2012, 10:56
LEOSA doesn't allow you to carry on a university campus?

Depending on state laws that can get a person in trouble, since many campuses are considered government property. Kansas allows it on the grounds if I really recall, but not in university buildings.

Sent from my communicator.