Green Tip- Coming Ban? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Littlemac
11-01-2011, 19:50
I was at a Gun show in the DFW area this last week. Two dealers were selling 62 gr green tip .223 ammo- No big deal Maybe more dealers I don't know.

The two that caught my eye had hand drawn signs, stating that as of Feb 2012 that this steel core ammo would not be available to civilians any longer. Does anyone else have any info on this restriction?

freedom790
11-01-2011, 20:00
Probably just looking to boost their sales. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen questionable business ethic at a gun show.

boone10
11-01-2011, 20:13
My shooting buddy told me just yesterday that he read where our armed forces are looking for even more penetration than the green tip can deliver. A new round has been developed with a steel tip and copper body (similar to a steel-tipped Barnes, I assume) and the 62 grain green tip will become obsolete. The new ammo will still be made in Lake City, but will cost up to 3 times as much to produce.

I have been seeing the green tip in ammo cans for sale in far more places than ever before over the past 3 or 4 months. I read where somebody bought a can at a Wal-Mart in Missouri recently. I don't shoot it that much, but will be looking to get another can or 2 just in case.

txgunguy
11-01-2011, 20:35
My shooting buddy told me just yesterday that he read where our armed forces are looking for even more penetration than the green tip can deliver. A new round has been developed with a steel tip and copper body (similar to a steel-tipped Barnes, I assume) and the 62 grain green tip will become obsolete. The new ammo will still be made in Lake City, but will cost up to 3 times as much to produce.

I have been seeing the green tip in ammo cans for sale in far more places than ever before over the past 3 or 4 months. I read where somebody bought a can at a Wal-Mart in Missouri recently. I don't shoot it that much, but will be looking to get another can or 2 just in case.

That would be awesome! Surplus steel tipped 556!

Cole125
11-01-2011, 21:05
Thats a load of BS, just some prick sellers with a agenda.

I have seen some good prices on "Not for Duty Use" marked green tip for the last few months. I am guessing a bad lot that the military is dumping on civilians. Wonder how bad the ammo has to preform for this to happen. 1-5 in 1000 fail to fire or something?

12131
11-01-2011, 23:16
Typical gun show BS. Man, I hate those aholes.

BlackPaladin
11-02-2011, 00:20
A bunch of BS as said above.

AK_Stick
11-02-2011, 00:53
Thats a load of BS, just some prick sellers with a agenda.

I have seen some good prices on "Not for Duty Use" marked green tip for the last few months. I am guessing a bad lot that the military is dumping on civilians. Wonder how bad the ammo has to preform for this to happen. 1-5 in 1000 fail to fire or something?

or it fails the accuracy requirement, or there was a mistake in the production etc.

american lockpicker
11-02-2011, 10:14
Thats a load of BS, just some prick sellers with a agenda.

I have seen some good prices on "Not for Duty Use" marked green tip for the last few months. I am guessing a bad lot that the military is dumping on civilians. Wonder how bad the ammo has to preform for this to happen. 1-5 in 1000 fail to fire or something?

I have a case of that. If functions fine and its flawless. I thought Not for Duty Use was a note for police not to use it because it penetrates so well.

m2hmghb
11-02-2011, 11:17
I have a case of that. If functions fine and its flawless. I thought Not for Duty Use was a note for police not to use it because it penetrates so well.

Think again Che, it's because it doesn't meet the reliability, or accuracy requirements to be issued as duty ammunition. It's a crap shoot whether it performs well or not.

Cruiser1
11-02-2011, 11:55
In the last few years I have noticed more idiots selling at gun shows. They don't have a clue what they are talking most of the time and fill in their lack of knowledge with piles of BS.

american lockpicker
11-02-2011, 14:38
I called up Federal and left a message so I'm wait and see what they have to say. I doubt they would sell inferior ammo to the civilian market.

SCSU74
11-02-2011, 14:57
natchez is having a sale, $300 for 1K rds i believe

m2hmghb
11-02-2011, 14:58
I called up Federal and left a message so I'm wait and see what they have to say. I doubt they would sell inferior ammo to the civilian market.

Military/LEO ammo has a different quality standard then civilian ammunition. There are different contract standards. How often do you hear of problems with winchester white box ammunition compared to winchester ranger or other winchester self defense ammunition types?

Spiffums
11-02-2011, 17:53
I bet the bad ammo kills paper well enough.

samuse
11-02-2011, 21:12
I bet the bad ammo kills paper well enough.


Yes and it'l piss off the owners of steel targets too!:whistling:

WarEagle32
11-02-2011, 21:30
A bunch of BS as said above.

+1 amen

mgs
11-03-2011, 08:47
Federal would not release ammo that was not safe to shoot.....too much liability. probably some minor issue at the Tax Payers expense, Mike.

Fireman1291
11-03-2011, 08:48
Yes and it'l piss off the owners of steel targets too!:whistling:

Not funny. I have a $120 idpa ar500 steel target that I bring to the range and you bet your a** if I caught a ahole shooting it with AP that he'd be buying my target.

eracer
11-03-2011, 08:57
Yes and it'l piss off the owners of steel targets too!:whistling:Really? Because my range allows M855 on steel targets.

They are not, after all, armor-piercing. Heck 7mm Mag Nosler Partitions will do a heck of a lot more damage to a steel plate.

Glockdude1
11-03-2011, 09:01
Typical gun show BS. Man, I hate those aholes.

:agree:

Check this out: http://www.natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=FA&prodID=FAXM855BAR&prodTitle=Federal%205.56%2062%20Grain%20Green%20Tip%2012,500%20rounds

http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/FAXM855BAR.jpg

Cruiser1
11-03-2011, 09:25
:agree:

Check this out: http://www.natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=FA&prodID=FAXM855BAR&prodTitle=Federal%205.56%2062%20Grain%20Green%20Tip%2012,500%20rounds

http://www.natchezss.com/images/products/FAXM855BAR.jpg

Group buy tiime. Anyone up for it?

glockenturm
11-03-2011, 09:38
Think again Che, it's because it doesn't meet the reliability, or accuracy requirements to be issued as duty ammunition. It's a crap shoot whether it performs well or not.

More than likely the lot did not meet the velocity standards so therefore was rejected. My understanding is the foreign SS109 we see here is the same story.

Someone once said, " Those that say Close Enough for Government Work have never dealt with a government arms contract."

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

AK_Stick
11-03-2011, 11:32
Not funny. I have a $120 idpa ar500 steel target that I bring to the range and you bet your a** if I caught a ahole shooting it with AP that he'd be buying my target.

M855, is NOT AP.

american lockpicker
11-03-2011, 13:15
Ok talked to a guy at Federal and he said its because of the sealants that its not for duty use. Any for duty use ammo is only sold to the military apparently.

punkey71
11-03-2011, 15:13
Not me. At 30 cents a round plus shipping it's a rip off since Wideners sells it for 30 cents a round SHIPPED in 1200 round cases. Not 12,500 round drums.

Group buy tiime. Anyone up for it?

Cruiser1
11-04-2011, 08:24
Not me. At 30 cents a round plus shipping it's a rip off since Wideners sells it for 30 cents a round SHIPPED in 1200 round cases. Not 12,500 round drums.


Just kidding, it is the shipping charges that would be the deal killer for me.

samuse
11-04-2011, 09:23
Really? Because my range allows M855 on steel targets.

They are not, after all, armor-piercing. Heck 7mm Mag Nosler Partitions will do a heck of a lot more damage to a steel plate.



You shoot at a range that is run by people who know what's up with M855.

It's LAP, and it won't hurt AR500 at 100 yards.

I've been shooting the steel down here for many matches and no one complained until they saw my ammo one day.

m2hmghb
11-04-2011, 14:07
More than likely the lot did not meet the velocity standards so therefore was rejected. My understanding is the foreign SS109 we see here is the same story.

Someone once said, " Those that say Close Enough for Government Work have never dealt with a government arms contract."

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Most likely. I can remember one batch of duty rounds that was for LEO use marked not for duty use because there were misfires of some type found during QC, it was a while ago so I'm not 100% sure of the details.

aryfrosty
11-06-2011, 16:41
I have been bulk buying SS109 for quite some time and I see no end to the supply. There are few true restrictions on ammo sales. If ammo is actually armor piercing it might be harder to get but the BS marked on ammo, "For LE Use Only" is 100% BS. Smoke the dealers sometimes blow to make you think you're getting something the guy next to you at the range can't get. For crying out loud...They ban KTW rounds (green weenies) with green teflon coating as "cop killers" and then they ban Black Talons as "cop killers" without having a clue what they are talking about. Anybody who wants to can still buy Black Talon ammo but it just won't have a nickel case or a black coating on the round. The worst armor defeating round is still the .22 magnum hardball. 9mm hardball is close behind it. Federal also sells the old S&W type .38spl. rounds with a nylon jacket and I have just round several boxes of WW .38spl with the 100% copper projectiles in tubular shape. Anyone like Cor-Bon? I like their 125gr .357mag rounds that are solid copper, (DPX). Shame is isn't illegal to advertise like those sellers did at the show you were at. I don't buy ammo that I believe was made out of country. All of my M855/SS019 is Lake City.

Glockdude1
11-06-2011, 20:05
Black Talons have never been banned. Plenty for sale.
:cool:

WoodenPlank
11-06-2011, 20:08
Black Talons have never been banned. Plenty for sale.
:cool:

Yep, and still made to this day - just with some minor design changes and a new name.

aryfrosty
11-06-2011, 20:10
Banned or not WW withdrew them from the market years ago. You might be lucky enough to find them at a dealer who was wise enough to stock up. There are no new ones made. Instead WW makes the "Ranger SXT6" marked, For law enforcement use only. And, like I said in the post...No nickel cases and no black projectiles, which were what made "Black Talons". If you are "unfortunate" enough to carry them...in a weapon or not...in either the People's Republiks of New Jersey or New York they will school you in what banned means.

NavyMSU
11-06-2011, 20:20
Instead WW makes the "Ranger SXT6" marked, For law enforcement use only.

You can occasionally find Rangers at gun shows. They mark it LE only and will only sell it to LE directly, but it's not a legal issue, it's a company ethics issue. If an LE authorized buyer wishes to risk their relationship with Win, that's their choice.

I have the 230g Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1 (nickle case, not black) in my G30, does anybody know the actual difference between RangerTs and PDX1s?!

WoodenPlank
11-06-2011, 20:28
Banned or not WW withdrew them from the market years ago. You might be lucky enough to find them at a dealer who was wise enough to stock up. There are no new ones made. Instead WW makes the "Ranger SXT6" marked, For law enforcement use only. And, like I said in the post...No nickel cases and no black projectiles, which were what made "Black Talons". If you are "unfortunate" enough to carry them...in a weapon or not...in either the People's Republiks of New Jersey or New York they will school you in what banned means.

Rangers are exceptionally easy to come by, just requires a little bit of looking around online. In many cases, I can buy Rangers for significantly cheaper per round than I can get cheap JHP from Walmart, Bass Pro, etc.

aryfrosty
11-06-2011, 20:54
You can occasionally find Rangers at gun shows. They mark it LE only and will only sell it to LE directly, but it's not a legal issue, it's a company ethics issue. If an LE authorized buyer wishes to risk their relationship with Win, that's their choice.

I have the 230g Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1 (nickle case, not black) in my G30, does anybody know the actual difference between RangerTs and PDX1s?!

Nor sure if there is much difference. Some pundits make much over buying only ammo marked as "self-defense" or "Personal Defense", (PDX-1) since it makes one look less threatening if you use it on some idiot and end up in court. I think that if you use it you're already marked so I don't know about that argument but I don't count off points if somebody is looking to minimize liability.

humanguerrilla
11-10-2011, 09:11
Ranger m855 $349/k
http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/1000-rds-556-winchester-ranger-m855-penetrator-ammo-ra556m855k

njl
11-12-2011, 17:52
Did those same dealers have $80 Glock pre-ban hi-cap mags or a sign like this one?

http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/glock/ssglock1.jpg

Glockdude1
11-13-2011, 07:06
Did those same dealers have $80 Glock pre-ban hi-cap mags or a sign like this one?

http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/glock/ssglock1.jpg

:rofl:

rattlehead55
11-13-2011, 11:07
Ranger m855 $349/k
http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/1000-rds-556-winchester-ranger-m855-penetrator-ammo-ra556m855k

Are there any benefits of this ammo besides just plicking with it?

humanguerrilla
11-13-2011, 11:47
Are there any benefits of this ammo besides just plicking with it?

It's the certified "for duty use" ammo mentioned earlier. Benefits I guess: peace of mind for some, attractive packaging, possible collector's value someday in your ammo stash

+1 on the Widener's IMI m855. Shoots good though the new stuff isn't technically green tipped. Packaged conveniently in 30 round boxes.

Glockdude1
11-13-2011, 12:05
Are there any benefits of this ammo besides just plicking with it?

Zombies............




:tongueout:

Cole125
11-13-2011, 15:36
Zombies............




:tongueout:

There you go. I have two cases of Green Tip stashed away just in case... you never know! :rofl: