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ugly american
11-06-2011, 13:35
I was doing some philosophizing on why someone would want to carry a gun all the time. That's how my wife puts it. "Why would anyone want to carry a gun all the time?" I posed the question "why would someone use their seatbelt every time they drive?" Based on my life experience, a smattering of statistical data, and lots of number crunching, I'm between 2 and 7 times more likely to save my ***** by carrying a gun than I am by wearing a seatbelt. Either way, the odds of catastrophe are so slim, one might say there's no point in doing either, yet I don't question the seatbelt. It's the reasonable and prudent thing to do, by anyone's standards. At the risk of challenging popular opinion, I have to ask, why wouldn't everyone want to carry a gun all the time? Granted, some people simply have an irrational fear of weapons, or couldn't possibly pull the trigger if they had to, no matter what, and that's different, because bad people can sense fear, and take your gun. But it defies logic that most people would frown upon carrying.
:therapy:

eb31
11-06-2011, 13:38
Great post!

vafish
11-06-2011, 13:38
People who are against carrying of guns are not using logic they are using emotions.

ugly american
11-06-2011, 14:08
It just occurred to me that posting this argument here is sort of pointless. We're all on the same team.
:dunno:

OdinIII
11-06-2011, 14:12
What statistics did you use to come up with the 2 to 7 times figure?

kj4963
11-06-2011, 14:13
It just occurred to me that posting this argument here is sort of pointless. We're all on the same team.
:dunno:

Great post anyway!

Cavalry Doc
11-06-2011, 14:48
Not any different than leaving the house without those things at the end of your arm that can make fists. The gun works better at a distance.

:dunno:

It's a very rare event, but they do happen. Better to have what you don't need, than need what you don't need.

Most of us will never ever use a firearm in a civilian self defense situation. That does not logically lead to the conclusion that most of us should not carry a gun when we have the option.

Same goes for seat belts. You might only need it once. Which once?

PhotoFeller
11-06-2011, 15:02
What statistics did you use to come up with the 2 to 7 times figure?

I'm interested in this explanation, too. I would have expected the opposite result...greater risk of auto crash death than gun assault death.

This is an interesting OP because it asks why everyone doesn't carry instead of asking those of who CC why we do it. Many who defend civilians being armed say those who do not carry are "sheeple", liberal wimps, etc.; I think the explanation is more complex than simple name calling will answer.

For openers, it seems most people aren't overly concerned about being exposed to threats every day, all the time, at home, work, shopping, picking up the kids after soccer practice, in traffic, at church and standing in line at the Apple store. Most of the people I have known all of my life don't own a handgun, let alone carry a concealed weapon. They don't worry about assaults because assaults have not been part of their life experiences. Until tragedy strikes close to one's self, family, acquaintances or immediate community, it just doesn't seem like something to be concerned about.

BobbyT
11-06-2011, 15:03
The answer is the same for anything else: the chances of the event are pretty low, but the consequences are so incredibly high that it's worth protecting against.

Why would anyone want to have a carbon monoxide detector on ALL the time? What kind of world do you live in where you go to bed terrified of suffocating in your sleep?

Why would anyone want to have a fire extinguisher around the kitchen ALL the time? You must be insecure because I've cooked for decades without burning my kitchen down.

Why would anyone want to wear a seat belt ALL the time? If you need one on the way to your neighbors', you must be one crazy driver!

Why would anyone want an airbag in EVERY car they drive? Paranoid much?

Why would you want your kids' health insurance up to date EVERY month? Statistically, I do more for my kids just by feeding them vitamins every day than worrying about some million dollar cancer they won't get.

nikerret
11-06-2011, 15:06
"Why would anyone want to carry a gun all the time?" ....

...At the risk of challenging popular opinion, I have to ask, why wouldn't everyone want to carry a gun all the time?:therapy:

I, for one, don't want to carry a firearm.

panzer1
11-06-2011, 15:10
It just occurred to me that posting this argument here is sort of pointless. We're all on the same team.
:dunno:Well not really. Some people on here voted for Obama.:shocked:

captdreifus
11-06-2011, 15:12
I, for one, don't want to carry a firearm.

For real?:dunno:

pipedreams
11-06-2011, 15:18
I'm interested in this explanation, too. I would have expected the opposite result...greater risk of auto crash death than gun assault death.
The OP didn't mention being assaulted by a gun. You could be attacked by a mad dog, a flash mob with bats, or be robbed or attacked at knife point by a thug. There could be a long list of reasons why you might need to protect yourself. If the threat to you or your companions is life threatening the need is there.

Lampshade
11-06-2011, 15:31
Based on my life experience, a smattering of statistical data, and lots of number crunching, I'm between 2 and 7 times more likely to save my ***** by carrying a gun than I am by wearing a seatbelt.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to rationalize your choices.

mj9mm
11-06-2011, 15:37
The answer is the same for anything else: the chances of the event are pretty low, but the consequences are so incredibly high that it's worth protecting against.

Why would anyone want to have a carbon monoxide detector on ALL the time? What kind of world do you live in where you go to bed terrified of suffocating in your sleep?

Why would anyone want to have a fire extinguisher around the kitchen ALL the time? You must be insecure because I've cooked for decades without burning my kitchen down.

Why would anyone want to wear a seat belt ALL the time? If you need one on the way to your neighbors', you must be one crazy driver!

Why would anyone want an airbag in EVERY car they drive? Paranoid much?

Why would you want your kids' health insurance up to date EVERY month? Statistically, I do more for my kids just by feeding them vitamins every day than worrying about some million dollar cancer they won't get.
i like this post so much, i had to print it out so i could forward your ideas on in the future(hope you don't mind), i really like this kind of reasoning, and with careful phrasing it could change some peoples thoughts on carrying, :cool: nice.

DaneA
11-06-2011, 19:23
My reason for carrying? Because it's the only life insurance plan that is proactive.

Warp
11-06-2011, 19:35
People who are against carrying of guns are not using logic they are using emotions.

That is often all that you need to know.

How does that saying go...You cannot use reason/logic to talk a man out of a position that was reached illogically...or something like that

HarleyGuy
11-06-2011, 19:44
I, for one, don't want to carry a firearm.

I fully respect and support your decision to remain defenseless.
Please accord me the same in my decision to be legally armed for my personal defense as well as any innocent person who may need my assistance.

JimBianchi
11-06-2011, 19:46
I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

Dexters
11-06-2011, 19:50
Based on my life experience, a smattering of statistical data, and lots of number crunching, I'm between 2 and 7 times more likely to save my ***** by carrying a gun than I am by wearing a seatbelt.

I'd be interested in the how you arrived at that stat. Can you provide some info?

glockeglock
11-06-2011, 19:53
.....

glockeglock
11-06-2011, 19:54
.....

kat1950
11-06-2011, 20:01
I have owned numerous guns over the last 44 years, have worked gun shows as private collector, and do not carry a gun on my person, never saw the need to do everyday or any day,and over 44 years there has never been an occasion that I needed one, I just do not like any weight in my pockets or on me, do have a couple of weapons in my car and truck. I have nothing against anyone that carries, I doubt that if you are the every day lawful individual you will never use that gun you carry in defense of your life, hell I have police and federal agent friends and relatives that have never pulled their gun in over 20 years of service. And I am a Conservative Republican, and not one of those Obama liberal fools.

Warp
11-06-2011, 20:09
This, please.




If your explanation of your statistics makes sense, then you arm us all with more info against the antis.

Good question.

I imagine it will involve his average number of miles driven per year and the annual average number of miles driven per accident with injury or death vs, say, the violent crime rate.

LASTRESORT20
11-06-2011, 20:14
I have owned numerous guns over the last 44 years, have worked gun shows as private collector, and do not carry a gun on my person, never saw the need to do everyday or any day,and over 44 years there has never been an occasion that I needed one, I just do not like any weight in my pockets or on me, do have a couple of weapons in my car and truck. I have nothing against anyone that carries, I doubt that if you are the every day lawful individual you will never use that gun you carry in defense of your life, hell I have police and federal agent friends and relatives that have never pulled their gun in over 20 years of service. And I am a Conservative Republican, and not one of those Obama liberal fools.


Good for you...I like to have insurance....even if I "feel" I dont need it...better to have insurance just in case....to each their own..all about timing...now...back to my show on AMC....:cool:

HarleyGuy
11-06-2011, 20:26
I have owned numerous guns over the last 44 years, have worked gun shows as private collector, and do not carry a gun on my person, never saw the need to do everyday or any day,and over 44 years there has never been an occasion that I needed one, I just do not like any weight in my pockets or on me, do have a couple of weapons in my car and truck. I have nothing against anyone that carries, I doubt that if you are the every day lawful individual you will never use that gun you carry in defense of your life, hell I have police and federal agent friends and relatives that have never pulled their gun in over 20 years of service. And I am a Conservative Republican, and not one of those Obama liberal fools.

Back several months ago, I purchased a new set of tires for one of my vehicles and the young man asked me if I wanted "road hazard insurance"?
My answer to him was that in over 45 years of driving I had only once blown a tire due to what would be considered a road hazard.
I drove home from the tire store (about 9 miles) and put my vehicle in the garage.
A couple of days later I was moving that vehicle from one side of my garage to the other side and backed over a piece of angle iron and pierced the sidewall....completely ruining the tire!:shocked:

Hopefully (and most probably) you (or I) will never need a firearm for self-defense from a person who has the intent, means and opportunity to cause us great bodily harm or death.
However, if I do I will at least have the means to protect myself and I just hope that I have the opportunity and time to use it.

You and I can voice our opinions regarding self defense but there are many victims who will never have the same opportunity, possibly because they made a decision earlier that they would never have need of a firearm.

Warp
11-06-2011, 20:29
I have owned numerous guns over the last 44 years, have worked gun shows as private collector, and do not carry a gun on my person, never saw the need to do everyday or any day,and over 44 years there has never been an occasion that I needed one, I just do not like any weight in my pockets or on me, do have a couple of weapons in my car and truck. I have nothing against anyone that carries, I doubt that if you are the every day lawful individual you will never use that gun you carry in defense of your life, hell I have police and federal agent friends and relatives that have never pulled their gun in over 20 years of service. And I am a Conservative Republican, and not one of those Obama liberal fools.

Where do the police officers work that they have gone 20 years without even drawing a firearm?

PlasticGuy
11-06-2011, 20:38
The results of ccw in the form of discomfort are negative, certain, and immediate. There is also the time/money investment, which is also generally negative, certain, and immediate. The results of having a gun if/when the fight finds you are very positive, but are not immediate and are highly uncertain.

It takes a lot of mental strength to make yourself carry everyday. Some people have it, but many do not.

ugly american
11-06-2011, 20:54
Wow, didn't see this being so interesting to everyone.

This is not a scientific article. Please don't hold me to the scrutiny of science. This is an opinion post.

The only statistics that I observed were that, in a lifetime, one will be the victim of a violent crime twice. From there I infer that each of those two times could have been prevented by carrying defensively. From there, I consider how many hundreds of thousands of times I've clicked on a seatbelt vs how many times I've waken up and holstered my pistol, and the rest is just sort of intuitive.

PhotoFeller
11-06-2011, 20:57
If I understand the OP's question, it isn't why do YOU carry, it's why doesn't EVERYONE carry? It's a great, relevant question that requires thinking about why most citizens don't feel concerned enough to buy and carry a firearm. This inquires about your family, friends, neighbors and every citizen who doesn't carry a weapon for SD. You know, we are a vast minority.

racer88
11-06-2011, 21:04
Why carry? Why not?

nelsone
11-06-2011, 21:18
Well I'm a liberal fool, and I carry every day.

As an adult citizen who's not crazy, addicted, a wife-beater, or a felon, I'm entitled to make the decision without the need to pony up an excuse.

And I can't think of a reason not to carry, any more than I could justify being in a car without a seat belt.

The stats are tricky, but I'd refer anyone to Professor Gary Kleck's excellent site, http://www.guncite.com/

It goes like this: Between 1.5 and 2 million times per year, an American deters a violent criminal by presenting a personally owned firearm. In the overwhelming majority of these cases (like 98%) no shots are fired, no one is hurt, and the bad guy gets away. That's what makes us the good guys: we wouldn't shoot the fleeing criminal in the back, the way he would us.

As far as saving lives goes, those calculations are all hypothetical. But one thing's for certain, that armed private citizens prevent violent crimes here in the US far more often that you'd guess by reading the mainstream media.

JimBianchi
11-06-2011, 22:12
Weird. Why would you want to not have it when you do need it, after having it when you did not need it?






;) Just razzing you. I know you meant "than" and not "then." Funny, how one word changes the entire meaning of a sentence.

since I am functionally illiterate, changing those two words means very little to me...

slama683
11-06-2011, 22:15
Because needing a gun for self defense has nothing to do with your plans for the day.

PhotoFeller
11-06-2011, 23:02
If I understand the OP's question, it isn't why do YOU carry, it's why doesn't EVERYONE carry? It's a great, relevant question that requires thinking about why most citizens don't feel concerned enough to buy and carry a firearm. This inquires about your family, friends, neighbors and every citizen who doesn't carry a weapon for SD. You know, we are a vast minority.

Hello!!! Only a couple of posts here offer any explanation about WHY MOST CITIZENS DON'T CARRY. The OP doesn't ask why we do. Can you offer some logical thoughts to provide an understanding of why we do and most others do not (never have and probably never will)? Answering this question is fundamental to understanding why we, the minority in our society, feel threatened enough to arm ourselves with a lethal weapon. If we haven't figured all of this out, our motives for CC are pretty thin.

Brian Lee
11-06-2011, 23:18
"Why would anyone wear a seat belt all the time" is a good analogy, because it's a lot like the people who suggest wearing a motorcycle helmet all the time is pointless too. But I'm alive only because wearing a helmet is NOT pointless.

True, I wore the thing with no accidents about 5000 times before the day came when it finally saved my life, but it DID save my life - and in an accident that did me no other serious harm, except that it would have smashed my skull beyond fatal without the helmet.

Helmets are worth wearing ALL the time, seat belts are worth wearing ALL the time, and guns are worth carrying ALL the time - because crooks are looking for opportunities ALL the time.

Brian Lee
11-06-2011, 23:26
Hello!!! Only a couple of posts here offer any explanation about WHY MOST CITIZENS DON'T CARRY. The OP doesn't ask why we do. Can you offer some logical thoughts to provide an understanding of why we do and most others do not (never have and probably never will)? Answering this question is fundamental to understanding why we, the minority in our society, feel threatened enough to arm ourselves with a lethal weapon. If we haven't figured all of this out, our motives for CC are pretty thin.

OK, most don't carry because:

1.) They're stupid.

2.) They're not stupid, but have allowed themselves to be mislead by bogus statistics put out by groups like the Brady Bunch, who use false numbers to make people think owning a firearm adds more danger than it eliminates from your life - something that's only true of you are a drug dealer in the ghetto looking to kill off your rivals - but yet, it's a false myth that many people believe.

Taterhead
11-06-2011, 23:41
I carry, but not always. Carrying means engaging the appropriate mental state of mind that, frankly, I am not always prepared to make: at the beach, skiing, or any time I intend to have more than a couple of drinks. It is risk assessment thing. I acknowledge that I may be subjecting myself personal risk by not carrying. However, at times, I am willing to concede that risk.

Pro 2A
11-06-2011, 23:53
I think many people are ignorant about guns. They have never held one, never shot one and only know what they see in the media like TV, movies, internet videos, print, etc. (which is often totally bogus). This leads to more fear of "the unknown" or fear of what they think guns do or cause.

I think education is the key to getting more people as gun owners. As one person said, it's often not until a person is personally touched by a crime that they seek this education. And it's hard to convince them they need the education until they are ready.

I totally support as many legal citizens carrying guns as possible (barring felony, drug, etc. deficiencies), but I don't think people ignorant about guns should own them. People need to have shot a gun so they know what it can and can't do and what THEY can and can't do. I also don't think it's the best situation for a person who doesn't think they could take a life to have a gun for personal defense. Hesitation and shooting to "wound" (if they even hit the criminal) can get them killed (possibly with their own gun). And then there are the mentally or mechanically challenged that I wonder about. You know the ones- the ones that have trouble operating a pencil or a door.

So yes, I support a person's choice to not carry or not own a gun. But if they want to learn, I'm more than happy to teach!

.

PhotoFeller
11-07-2011, 00:47
OK, most don't carry because:

1.) They're stupid.

2.) They're not stupid, but have allowed themselves to be mislead by bogus statistics put out by groups like the Brady Bunch, who use false numbers to make people think owning a firearm adds more danger than it eliminates from your life - something that's only true of you are a drug dealer in the ghetto looking to kill off your rivals - but yet, it's a false myth that many people believe.

I can't prove this, but I believe most people don't even think about anti-gun propaganda. I say this because of family, friends, people I've worked with, belonged to organizations with, gone to church with, etc. who have never carried and wouldn't consider it necessary. They would say carrying a gun is plain silly. Most are too busy raising kids, making a living, preparing to retire some day, maintaining a home and multiple cars. They are far from stupid.

People who don't see the need for self/family defense, in my opinion, haven't been close enough to an assault or a robbery to be sensitized in a real way to the dangers of our society. Reading about crime in the newspaper isn't enough. On the other hand, people who have had or been close to a horrifying experience, or know someone who has, feel a compelling need to be prepared. Parents with young families have additional motivation to protect their offspring. Current and former LEOs have real reasons for needing to carry off duty.

Some of us, like me, have never had a life threatening experience, but we really enjoy firearms because of exposure to guns when we were kids, in the military, or from other experiences; guns are fun. Furthermore, carrying a firearm gives us a sense of security because of the lethality of our weapons. In a way, carrying for SD gives us a reason to own and be accompanied by our beloved guns; SD to some is a rationalization for the cost of owning, maintaining, practicing with, enduring the discomfort of carrying, and training with our firearms.

Wouldn't any rational person who felt really threatened be motivated to take up arms, or hunker down at home all the time? After all, the laws allow us to CC in nearly every state. Why then don't the vast majority of Americans carry a gun daily for SD? I say it's because they they simply aren't concerned enough about the risk of life to take up the ultimate defense.

This is my straw man response to the OP. Tell me where I'm wrong.

Sbh87
11-07-2011, 03:02
I carry because I legally can, it's my right as an American* and I am a big believer in the age old saying I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I feel like some people carry to almost "stick it to the man" and when I do carry I always make sure its not to make a statement or shove it in someones face and I am just doing it because its my choice. Like many here I have never had a life or death situation and needed to use it and the chance that that could happen is only a small part of my decision to carry. I have always had a great appreciation for firearms. I grew up shooting firearms and grew up around others who carried and I guess its from those experiences that makes carrying a very normal thing for me.








*Carrying a firearm may be a right granted to all Americans under the Constitution of the United States, however that document does not apply to residents of the Commonwealth. Therefore, carrying a firearm in Massachusetts is a privilege and is void where prohibited by law.

Brucev
11-07-2011, 07:38
"At the risk of challenging popular opinion, I have to ask, why wouldn't everyone want to carry a gun all the time?" I have no problem with cc and am currently thinking about it. But, popular opinion is not by any stretch of the imagination in support of cc/oc. While supported by those who enjoy using firearms and who support the 2nd Amendment, that segment of the population is very small and in no way definitive of the norm. As to why someone would not want to carry all the time... the answer is simple. Not everyone is obsessed with zombies. :supergrin:

BailRecoveryAgent
11-07-2011, 08:55
Originally Posted by nikerret http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18130877#post18130877)
I, for one, don't want to carry a firearm.


I agree, and know exactly what you meant by this post. I wish we lived in the utopia crime free world that the Brady Bunch, Ceasefire, Mayors Against Illegal Guns and other anti-gun groups like to tell their minions that we live in. Instead, armed I shall be.

wjv
11-07-2011, 11:13
I have a CCW but don't carry all the time.

I live right on the border with another State that does NOT honor my permit. Since on any given day I can travel into that other State one or more time, it becomes problematic to carry, since I would be committing a felony most every day.

Getting a non-resident permit from that State is a Pain in the A**, but is possible so eventually I will take the stupid class, shell out the $$$ and apply for the permit.

Not carrying doesn't freak me out like it apparently does for many others here. I was born in Chicago and lived in "NO PERMITS" IL for 24 years, then lived in "NO PERMITS" Colorado for 13 more (before CO finally changed their law). So for the first 37 years of my life I lived in a State where carry was illegal. . You kinda get use to it and adapt (OC, quality knife, pry bar under the front seat).

I do carry far more now than before. Even bought a nice S&W 442 with CT grips that can easily fit in my front pants pocket. I'm carrying more now because of the economy, with the significant uptick I've seen in crime by us (Three burglaries of occupied dwellings near us in a two month period). So I now carry at home, or make sure that a gun is easily available. It also seems like a lot more people are driving aggressively and angry.

Funny part is, even though I didn't carry often in the past. The two times I needed a gun I had one with me (legally). And as the NRA likes to say "Often the mere presence of a gun will deter a criminal", which is exactly what happened.

blk69stang
11-07-2011, 12:00
Why be armed all the time?

Because I can think of no time when I would like to be unarmed during a deadly-force encounter.

PhotoFeller
11-07-2011, 14:41
I carry, but not always. Carrying means engaging the appropriate mental state of mind that, frankly, I am not always prepared to make: at the beach, skiing, or any time I intend to have more than a couple of drinks. It is risk assessment thing. I acknowledge that I may be subjecting myself personal risk by not carrying. However, at times, I am willing to concede that risk.

I'm with you all the way, Tater!

It's amazing to read posts from people who don't carry all the time simply because they aren't constantly afraid of being robbed or assaulted. We who carry selectively are in the minority here, guessing from how seldom we speak out. We are motivated by some reason to own and carry a gun sometimes. Most others in society are not motivated at all to engage in SD measures.

PhotoFeller
11-07-2011, 15:00
I have a CCW but don't carry all the time.

I live right on the border with another State that does NOT honor my permit. Since on any given day I can travel into that other State one or more time, it becomes problematic to carry, since I would be committing a felony most every day.

Getting a non-resident permit from that State is a Pain in the A**, but is possible so eventually I will take the stupid class, shell out the $$$ and apply for the permit.

Not carrying doesn't freak me out like it apparently does for many others here. I was born in Chicago and lived in "NO PERMITS" IL for 24 years, then lived in "NO PERMITS" Colorado for 13 more (before CO finally changed their law). So for the first 37 years of my life I lived in a State where carry was illegal. . You kinda get use to it and adapt (OC, quality knife, pry bar under the front seat).

I do carry far more now than before. Even bought a nice S&W 442 with CT grips that can easily fit in my front pants pocket. I'm carrying more now because of the economy, with the significant uptick I've seen in crime by us (Three burglaries of occupied dwellings near us in a two month period). So I now carry at home, or make sure that a gun is easily available. It also seems like a lot more people are driving aggressively and angry.

Funny part is, even though I didn't carry often in the past. The two times I needed a gun I had one with me (legally). And as the NRA likes to say "Often the mere presence of a gun will deter a criminal", which is exactly what happened.

Excellent, thoughtful and, I believe, honest statement. Thanks for chimbing in.

HoldHard
11-07-2011, 15:00
I carry everywhere it's legal. It's my "good luck charm". Everytime I've had it with me, nothing happened.

I want to keep it that way.

HH

Thorazine
11-07-2011, 15:42
It's not any inconvenience for me to carry.

Just another item that I leave the house with.


For some people it's their IPAD.

For me it's my HK45c. =D

poodleplumber
11-07-2011, 15:47
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikerret http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif)
I, for one, don't want to carry a firearm. by BailRecoveryAgent:
I agree, and know exactly what you meant by this post. I wish we lived in the utopia crime free world that the Brady Bunch, Ceasefire, Mayors Against Illegal Guns and other anti-gun groups like to tell their minions that we live in. Instead, armed I shall be. I took it the same way. He doesn't carry because he wants to, he carries because it is a necessary and responsible thing to be ready to defend himself in a world of violence. I kind of like the answer, actually.

Spiffums
11-07-2011, 16:04
Well not really. Some people on here voted for Obama.:shocked:

A man makes one little mistake and you all have to drag it up every other thread! I told you I was tricked. When I was told I'd get TLC if I voted for the Boss Pimp I was thinking T Boz left eye and chilli!

TreyG-20
11-07-2011, 16:06
If i think about at least 90% of the people i meet and deal with on a daily basis i think the world is better off with them not carrying a firearm

nikerret
11-07-2011, 16:17
For real?:dunno:

I fully respect and support your decision to remain defenseless.
Please accord me the same in my decision to be legally armed for my personal defense as well as any innocent person who may need my assistance.

^Reading fail.

__________________________________________
I agree, and know exactly what you meant by this post. I wish we lived in the utopia crime free world that the Brady Bunch, Ceasefire, Mayors Against Illegal Guns and other anti-gun groups like to tell their minions that we live in. Instead, armed I shall be.

I took it the same way. He doesn't carry because he wants to, he carries because it is a necessary and responsible thing to be ready to defend himself in a world of violence. I kind of like the answer, actually.

^Reading pass.

Glockdude1
11-07-2011, 16:20
Why would anyone want to carry a gun all the time?

Cops are heavy???

:cool:

ADK_40GLKr
11-07-2011, 16:26
If I understand the OP's question, it isn't why do YOU carry, it's why doesn't EVERYONE carry? It's a great, relevant question that requires thinking about why most citizens don't feel concerned enough to buy and carry a firearm. This inquires about your family, friends, neighbors and every citizen who doesn't carry a weapon for SD. You know, we are a vast minority.

IF I HAD AN UNRESTRICTED NYS PERMIT, I'd probably carry every day. But I don't have one. So I can answer why I don't get awfully upset about that.

-likely the biggest reason is complacency.

-the second is another way of saying the same thing: there doesn't seem to be a need:
1. my neighborhood has no crime. (20 some years ago my Parole Officer neighbor had his house ransacked by a disgruntled parolee while he was away on vacation - that's it).
2. my county is relatively crime free - every 3 or 4 years a domestic disturbance will turn into a murder/suicide.
3. Our city (20 miles away) has occasional violent crimes in the downtown area, but even those crimes seem to be among the residents.

Some of you have suggested I leave because gun permission in my county is so restrictive, but I don't know any place I could go to that would be safer. So I'll carry when I can: in the woods, stream, boat or range and traveling to those places without much worry, avoid dark alleys downtown, and maybe work on a FL nonresident license for when I go on vacation.

ugly american
11-07-2011, 17:44
I'm interested in this explanation, too. I would have expected the opposite result...greater risk of auto crash death than gun assault death.

This is an interesting OP because it asks why everyone doesn't carry instead of asking those of who CC why we do it. Many who defend civilians being armed say those who do not carry are "sheeple", liberal wimps, etc.; I think the explanation is more complex than simple name calling will answer.

For openers, it seems most people aren't overly concerned about being exposed to threats every day, all the time, at home, work, shopping, picking up the kids after soccer practice, in traffic, at church and standing in line at the Apple store. Most of the people I have known all of my life don't own a handgun, let alone carry a concealed weapon. They don't worry about assaults because assaults have not been part of their life experiences. Until tragedy strikes close to one's self, family, acquaintances or immediate community, it just doesn't seem like something to be concerned about.

If I understand the OP's question, it isn't why do YOU carry, it's why doesn't EVERYONE carry? It's a great, relevant question that requires thinking about why most citizens don't feel concerned enough to buy and carry a firearm. This inquires about your family, friends, neighbors and every citizen who doesn't carry a weapon for SD. You know, we are a vast minority.

Hello!!! Only a couple of posts here offer any explanation about WHY MOST CITIZENS DON'T CARRY. The OP doesn't ask why we do. Can you offer some logical thoughts to provide an understanding of why we do and most others do not (never have and probably never will)? Answering this question is fundamental to understanding why we, the minority in our society, feel threatened enough to arm ourselves with a lethal weapon. If we haven't figured all of this out, our motives for CC are pretty thin.

I can't prove this, but I believe most people don't even think about anti-gun propaganda. I say this because of family, friends, people I've worked with, belonged to organizations with, gone to church with, etc. who have never carried and wouldn't consider it necessary. They would say carrying a gun is plain silly. Most are too busy raising kids, making a living, preparing to retire some day, maintaining a home and multiple cars. They are far from stupid.

People who don't see the need for self/family defense, in my opinion, haven't been close enough to an assault or a robbery to be sensitized in a real way to the dangers of our society. Reading about crime in the newspaper isn't enough. On the other hand, people who have had or been close to a horrifying experience, or know someone who has, feel a compelling need to be prepared. Parents with young families have additional motivation to protect their offspring. Current and former LEOs have real reasons for needing to carry off duty.

Some of us, like me, have never had a life threatening experience, but we really enjoy firearms because of exposure to guns when we were kids, in the military, or from other experiences; guns are fun. Furthermore, carrying a firearm gives us a sense of security because of the lethality of our weapons. In a way, carrying for SD gives us a reason to own and be accompanied by our beloved guns; SD to some is a rationalization for the cost of owning, maintaining, practicing with, enduring the discomfort of carrying, and training with our firearms.

Wouldn't any rational person who felt really threatened be motivated to take up arms, or hunker down at home all the time? After all, the laws allow us to CC in nearly every state. Why then don't the vast majority of Americans carry a gun daily for SD? I say it's because they they simply aren't concerned enough about the risk of life to take up the ultimate defense.

This is my straw man response to the OP. Tell me where I'm wrong.

PhotoFeller, thanks for taking the time to submit your thoughtful responses. I forget, often, how simple minded people can be. I think it's probable that most people would want to carry all the time, if they took the time to think about it. I take the time to think about lots of things, very deeply. Most people don't, and it's easy to forget that. I needed to be reminded.

JackMac
11-07-2011, 17:49
why look both ways before you cross the street? it is a safety issue. Better safe than sorry!

wjv
11-07-2011, 18:12
Why then don't the vast majority of Americans carry a gun daily for SD? I say it's because they they simply aren't concerned enough about the risk of life to take up the ultimate defense.

Also many people can't carry because of job restriction. Now before you yell "store it in your car trunk". . . Remember, not everyone drives a car to work. And even some who do are restricted from having a firearm in their vehicle (which I don't agree with) by their employer. Many of millions of people take buses, trains, subways to work everyday.

ugly american
11-07-2011, 19:10
I assumed, or presumed without mentioning it, that our discussion pertains to legal carry. I wouldn't suggest illegal carry to anyone, and wouldn't illegally carry myself. Illegal carry will only invite trouble and hardship, and endanger others. This might be a good time to mention that I also feel that it's very important to know the laws, abide by them, and practice practice practice. Continuing education is important too. The laws change periodically, and it's the responsibility of the individual to keep up. I feel that taking on the responsibility to carry automatically includes proper and thorough training, maintaining constant vigil over your carry weapon, and maintaining both safety skills and shooting skills. I don't want any loose cannons out there, gunning up, without taking their responsibility to society very seriously. It's our right and all, but it's also a privilege that can't be taken lightly.

PhotoFeller
11-07-2011, 19:11
PhotoFeller, thanks for taking the time to submit your thoughtful responses. I forget, often, how simple minded people can be. I think it's probable that most people would want to carry all the time, if they took the time to think about it. I take the time to think about lots of things, very deeply. Most people don't, and it's easy to forget that. I needed to be reminded.

Bottom line for me is the belief that most of our fellow citizens are really focused on the most important aspects in life, such as supporting family, being productive members of society, being involved in the political system, practicing civility, sobriety, compassion for others in need, etc. This represents a pretty full plate for most.

ADK_40GLK gave us a perspective shared by many Americans who don't carry a gun. Their community is safe. Fear isn't on top of the everyday emotional scale, it's near the bottom. Are these folks ignorant; are they minions of a political machine that fools them into complacency? I prefer to think not. I believe their lives are basically free of fear, which allows for filling their thoughts with positive stuff.

As a final thought regarding those of us who carry, sometimes guns take over a disproportionate place in our lives. We can become gun centric, or somewhat obsessed with guns and all the paraphernalia that goes with CC. We opine that those who disregard our penchant for firearms are suffering from naivete, brainwashing, simple mindedness and more. This, in my opinion, is just as fallible as being oblivious to the dangers in our world.

ugly american
11-07-2011, 19:28
As a final thought regarding those of us who carry, sometimes guns take over a disproportionate place in our lives. We can become gun centric, or somewhat obsessed with guns and all the paraphernalia that goes with CC. We opine that those who disregard our penchant for firearms are suffering from naivete, brainwashing, simple mindedness and more. This, in my opinion, is just as fallible as being oblivious to the dangers in our world.

Excellent words of wisdom, and another good reminder.

iluv2viddyfilms
11-07-2011, 19:33
I've only read the original post, and not the replies but I get why people think it doesn't make sense.

I'm one of these gun-totting naysayers in the gun world. I think there is not a huge reason to carry a gun for the common person. In some career situations or living situations it may be necessary. For most people it is not.

The seatbelt analogy really doesn't work because seatbelts are not dangerous, whereas guns are if misused.

I support the 2nd ammendment and I have my carry permit, but here's how I see it. There is a far greater chance of an accident or negligent discharge happening that there is of a person needing to defend themselves with a gun.

Still I support people who do because it is their right to carry and even though I find it superfluous to carry - at worst, I will still not deny them or say they shouldn't have that right. To carry a gun, is simply a personal protection insurance policy which hopefully most will never need to use.

iluv2viddyfilms
11-07-2011, 19:37
And oddly enough the places where people probably DO have a reason to carry a gun - banks, schools, Chicago, NYC, college campuses and so on, are ironically the places were carrying is outlawed.

I might feel a need to carry a gun with me when I visit Chicago, but I can't. Going to Wal-Mart in small town Iowa, I don't really feel the need to, but I can carry a gun there.

Seems silly.

ugly american
11-07-2011, 19:52
I support the 2nd ammendment and I have my carry permit, but here's how I see it. There is a far greater chance of an accident or negligent discharge happening that there is of a person needing to defend themselves with a gun.


I can't argue with your reason for the purpose intended, but I would like to highlight "negligent discharge". There may be a place for a new thread here. Is there such thing as accidental discharge? My theory is that there is no such thing, and that any unintended discharge is the result of personal negligence.

Cavalry Doc
11-07-2011, 20:03
I've only read the original post, and not the replies but I get why people think it doesn't make sense.

I'm one of these gun-totting naysayers in the gun world. I think there is not a huge reason to carry a gun for the common person. In some career situations or living situations it may be necessary. For most people it is not.

The seatbelt analogy really doesn't work because seatbelts are not dangerous, whereas guns are if misused.

I support the 2nd ammendment and I have my carry permit, but here's how I see it. There is a far greater chance of an accident or negligent discharge happening that there is of a person needing to defend themselves with a gun.

Still I support people who do because it is their right to carry and even though I find it superfluous to carry - at worst, I will still not deny them or say they shouldn't have that right. To carry a gun, is simply a personal protection insurance policy which hopefully most will never need to use.



This is why I don't think anyone but I should carry a gun. Only I am professional enough to carry the .40 caliber Glock






I see people carrying every day, and haven't seen a negligent discharge in about 12 years, and that was at a clearing barrel.



It's not just something that happens in the movies. Just read your local paper. I live in a fairly small town, and there are shootings at least a few times a week. My opinion, is if you don't trust yourself to be able to handle a firearm safely, or really don't want to shoot back, simply don't carry.

No one should be forced to carry a firearm outside of military service. Other than that, it should be an option, or at least an option to keep one bullet in your shirt pocket, instead of the gun.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSoudZXsceXvMW-j0EA3f2jQC6mjQQzyeWFYHMYuJgv_u07uRzdFJrc7ihTg

PhotoFeller
11-07-2011, 20:36
Also many people can't carry because of job restriction. Now before you yell "store it in your car trunk". . . Remember, not everyone drives a car to work. And even some who do are restricted from having a firearm in their vehicle (which I don't agree with) by their employer. Many of millions of people take buses, trains, subways to work everyday.

Good point, and one I had never thought of.

Pro 2A
11-07-2011, 20:40
And oddly enough the places where people probably DO have a reason to carry a gun - banks, schools, Chicago, NYC, college campuses and so on, are ironically the places were carrying is outlawed.



Coincidence? I think not. Perhaps there is a greater risk because the criminals know they are the only ones carrying? If I were a criminal, I'd certainly go to a criminal safe zone to commit crime!

Pro 2A
11-07-2011, 20:44
*Carrying a firearm may be a right granted to all Americans under the Constitution of the United States, however that document does not apply to residents of the Commonwealth. Therefore, carrying a firearm in Massachusetts is a privilege and is void where prohibited by law.

Actually, the right is assumed and the 2nd amendment is meant to prevent infringement on that right. But it's debateable whether that has worked or not.

Merkavaboy
11-07-2011, 21:20
Great post!

+1

I might add: How many stories have you read or heard about where someone was viciously attacked and crippled or murdered, wherein if they had been armed, just may have been able to turn the tables against their attacker(s) and may have escaped without injury (or minimal injury) or survived their attack? The L.A. Dodgers beating victim Bryan Stow comes quickly to mind.

PhotoFeller
11-07-2011, 22:12
+1

I might add: How many stories have you read or heard about where someone was viciously attacked and crippled or murdered, wherein if they had been armed, just may have been able to turn the tables against their attacker(s) and may have escaped without injury (or minimal injury) or survived their attack? The L.A. Dodgers beating victim Bryan Stow comes quickly to mind.

This is true. It is unrefutable that victims might escape harm if armed, and if well trained with their weapon, when attacked.

You rightfully carry a weapon most of the time, I assume, because you believe the chance for robbery or attack is great enough to warrant aggressive SD measures. If someone doesnt think the probability of attack is statistically north of say, 2%, one might conclude CC isn't necessary. Is that a fair statement? If 2% seems high or low, fill the blank with the correct number.

Many citizens who don't arm themselves must, consciously or subconsciously, rate the probability of attack to be something less than your assessment. Thus having a weapon just isn't necessary.

The decision to carry or not to carry is subjective, not based on science. It all depends on each individual's view of their environment, their priorities, their attitude about guns and, most importantly if they are really concerned about personal/family safety. Different strokes for different folks; I think it really is that simple.

Warp
11-08-2011, 02:17
why look both ways before you cross the street? it is a safety issue. Better safe than sorry!

I think about this all the time. When I am on campus we have one way streets and divided streets. I still look both ways before crossing, even though no traffic should ever come the wrong way down the street.

And do you know what I am reminded of? The Tosh.0 episode where the guy walks out without looking both ways and is clobbered by a bicycle rider going opposite the direction of vehicular traffic.

Some things are, IMO, worth a little inconvenience. I'll look both ways before stepping out into any street. I'll have an unusually high number of smoke detectors and CO monitors in my home...and fire extinguishers. I'll 'prep'. I'll carry a gun virtually everywhere legal. Avoid overly risky places, people and activities. Etc.

You only get one life. You only get one body.

Warp
11-08-2011, 02:19
You rightfully carry a weapon most of the time, I assume, because you believe the chance for robbery or attack is great enough to warrant aggressive SD measures.

I don't consider a pistol to be an "aggressive SD measure". Body armour, and multiple pistols...maybe...but a rifle would be a lot better.



The decision to carry or not to carry is subjective, not based on science. It all depends on each individual's view of their environment, their priorities, their attitude about guns and, most importantly if they are really concerned about personal/family safety. Different strokes for different folks; I think it really is that simple.

Yes

chuck11976
11-08-2011, 07:42
If you're fortunate enough to have been granted the permission to take on the responsibility to defend yourself, your loved ones, your friends, and other defenseless people, then it is your absolute DUTY to do so!

kirgi08
11-08-2011, 10:00
People who are against carrying of guns are not using logic they are using emotions.

I would suggest their upbringing,more so than emotions.I was raised around guns and understand the responsibility their use instills.Youse can't get a bullet back,once fired.You can get the training and knowledge ta protect oneself and ones family.



I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

I usta have the above as part of my sig,just a wee bit different:

"I'd rather have and not need as ta need and not have it".

My sig has another thing about predation.'08.

Leigh
11-08-2011, 10:08
*Carrying a firearm may be a right granted to all Americans under the Constitution of the United States, however that document does not apply to residents of the Commonwealth. Therefore, carrying a firearm in Massachusetts is a privilege and is void where prohibited by law.

All depends on where that Commonwealth is located.

The Commonwealth of Kentucky sure believes in the Constitution.

Sbh87
11-08-2011, 10:19
All depends on where that Commonwealth is located.

The Commonwealth of Kentucky sure believes in the Constitution.

That's because Kentucky is awesome and respects freedom!! It's also awesome because it recognizes my commonwealths carry licenses.


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writwing
11-11-2011, 16:58
Why do adults wear helmets when riding bicycles on a dirt road?

Dexters
11-11-2011, 17:12
Why do adults wear helmets when riding bicycles on a dirt road?

Why don't adults wear helmets while in bed sleeping?

Warp
11-11-2011, 19:26
Why don't adults wear helmets while in bed sleeping?

Because they are intelligent and understand how to use reason and logic?

Merkavaboy
11-11-2011, 19:54
Here's a brief comment by Mas Ayoob that I think that everyone would be interested in reading:

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/

redbrd
11-11-2011, 20:11
I don't carry one all the time but do when I can. My life experiences have not led my to carry much faith in human nature. The world over people prey upon others. Fortunately in our country we live very well and while people do still prey upon each other. Most cases its through business or other non violent means, but as times get tougher I expect to see more need to carry than less.
As my post suggests I have traveled a great deal and while my outlook may seem grim it has evolved from my experiences. The one common thread I have seen of the human species is it predatory nature. Yes there are good people but most human motivation is self centered. Many would argue this is a self preservation instinct which I don't disagree with.

Pro 2A
11-11-2011, 23:42
Here's a brief comment by Mas Ayoob that I think that everyone would be interested in reading:

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/


So tragic and senseless! You just never know when a psyco, someone on drugs or someone willing to kill you for what you have or what they want is going to threaten you or someone you love. I'd rather be ready to defend myself or my loved one than die praying for my life and wishing I had a way to effectively fight back!

srprex
11-12-2011, 01:53
Conceal carry is really true life insurance. We think of the term insurance we pay for every month as life insurance but it is actually death insurance....if we die our beneficiaries receive money as a result of our death. Our EDC has the potential to keep us from dying at the hands of some bad guy....real life insurance! So all the trouble I go through to carry is my life insurance premium!

Warp
11-12-2011, 12:53
Conceal carry is really true life insurance. We think of the term insurance we pay for every month as life insurance but it is actually death insurance....if we die our beneficiaries receive money as a result of our death. Our EDC has the potential to keep us from dying at the hands of some bad guy....real life insurance! So all the trouble I go through to carry is my life insurance premium!

Agreed.

Kind of like those silly insurance commercials where they compared an insurance policy from the company running the ad with a roided-up bodybuilder standing next to the item. News flash...insurance doesn't do diddly squat to protect the item, the big dude probably does.

Insurance /=/ protection

SCmasterblaster
11-12-2011, 14:46
Well I always wear a seat belt, and I always carry my G17. unless I am going on a public school property, VA Hospital, or a Post Office. One never knows whem my G17 would come in handy, especially with 17 rounds of 115gr +p+ loads at 1500 FPS.

wuvmyglock
11-12-2011, 14:50
Well not really. Some people on here voted for Obama.:shocked:


:uglylol:

Vic777
11-12-2011, 14:56
I remember explaining to a lieberal why I carry a gun. He said, "If that's the way you feel, you should carry all the time!". Best advice I ever got!