Help with my first load? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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shane.rawlings
11-06-2011, 19:53
Im using titegroup, missouri bullet company 147gr lead fp, and federal primers

im using all this in a G34 with a lone wolf barrel,

im thinking of starting out at 3.2 or 3.3 and was wondering what some of you do...

i want a minimum of 850 fps but between 875-900 to be safe would be ideal...

the manual i have doesnt list any tite group with .356 lead 147gr bullets,

thanks for your help

IndyGunFreak
11-06-2011, 19:59
Waits for fred... :whistling:

Three-Five-Seven
11-06-2011, 20:06
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

GioaJack
11-06-2011, 20:07
Waits for fred... :whistling:

^^^^ This. Fred will sense that you uttered the word, TITEGROUP, will be unceremoniously roused from one of his many daily naps and give you a sound verbal thrashing for even thinking of using the equivalent of the Devil's spawn as a propellent.

Fred is correct in thinking that the only pistol powder God needed to invent was Unique. :whistling:


Jack

IndyGunFreak
11-06-2011, 20:17
^^^^ This. Fred will sense that you uttered the word, TITEGROUP, will be unceremoniously roused from one of his many daily naps and give you a sound verbal thrashing for even thinking of using the equivalent of the Devil's spawn as a propellent.

Fred is correct in thinking that the only pistol powder God needed to invent was Unique. :whistling:


Jack

:rofl:

shane.rawlings
11-06-2011, 20:18
i might go with some unique next time, but for now i have tite group...

i tried that site but the only 147 gr they have is .355 not .356... im assuming that makes a difference in pressure, though ive been wrong before... and does lead change anything as well?

IndyGunFreak
11-06-2011, 20:25
i might go with some unique next time, but for now i have tite group...

i tried that site but the only 147 gr they have is .355 not .356... im assuming that makes a difference in pressure, though ive been wrong before... and does lead change anything as well?

....

Do you have a reloading manual? You need to read it..

IGF

shane.rawlings
11-07-2011, 00:00
the one i have doesnt mention lead 147 gr bullets, the lyman 49th is on its way

atakawow
11-07-2011, 01:05
i might go with some unique next time, but for now i have tite group...

i tried that site but the only 147 gr they have is .355 not .356... im assuming that makes a difference in pressure, though ive been wrong before... and does lead change anything as well?


DO NOT begin loading until you have fully read the Lyman 49th at least once or twice.

the listed .355 is most likely for a full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet. With lead bullet, you will generally want at least a thousandth of an inch larger than your bore diameter.

Lead changes everything. Best to never use FMJ data for lead.

You are messing with Titegroup without the basic understanding of the difference between lead and FMJ.

Again, DO NOT attempt to load any round until you have fully read the Lyman 49th at least once or twice.

shane.rawlings
11-07-2011, 02:12
dont worry, the press is in the mail too... i dont want to do anything crazy...

WiskyT
11-07-2011, 03:51
TG, LW, all we need is an FCD.

F106 Fan
11-07-2011, 07:42
One of the reasons for concern about Titegroup (and probably Bullseye as well) is that these are fast powders and a little bit goes a long way. A little bit more because of a brain fart mixing data for FMJ and lead bullets is enough to do a huge amount of damage. Hence the warnings.

Why Unique? Well, it takes a truck load of Unique to make up a load. You just about can't overcharge a case. As a result, it is less sensitive to screw-ups. A double charge will almost always spill out the top of the case so, for beginners, this is a nice safe powder for learning the business of reloading.

Do not take this as suggesting anything less than precision charges. Accuracy is everything with powder charges.

Another advantage of Unique is that it has been around forever. Loads using Unique are all over the place. Every conceivable caliber and bullet combination probably has a published Unique load somewhere. Titegroup is, IMO, a 'botique' powder: you may, or may not, find loading data in the manuals published by bullet manufacturers. The Hodgdon data may, or may not, be sufficient.

I like to get my reloading data from published material. I want to see it written down. If I get something from the Internet, I want to be able to cross-check it with published data.

FWIW, I just made up my first batch of test loads using Titegroup. I haven't had a chance to get to the range and test them for velocity and accuracy. Maybe later in the week.

Richard

F106 Fan
11-07-2011, 07:52
the one i have doesnt mention lead 147 gr bullets, the lyman 49th is on its way

The Lyman 49th does have a load for a 147 gr lead FN bullet. When you get your manual, notice how close "Suggested Starting Grains" is to "Max Load Grains". There's just 0.4 gr difference. Some powders don't even meter to 0.1 gr consistently. So, be careful!

Richard

unclebob
11-07-2011, 08:26
When I was using the 147gr. X-treme bullets I used 3.2grs. of Tight Group. Went to 135gr. X-treme bullets with 3.5grs of Tight Group 1.120,1.135 depending on what your gun likes.

fredj338
11-07-2011, 08:29
TG makes wonderful fertilizer, enough said. Well, maybe one more thing. FOr noob reloaders, starting w/ a powder like TG is a severe handicap IMO. Too narrow a range, too steep a pressure curve, no room for error, ESPECIALLY w/ heavy for caliber bullets in small volumn cases. Noob reloaders tend to make errors, starting w/ lead bullets & TG is just one. Someone will come along & give you their prefered load via the internet, not the best places to get useful, vetted data IMO. I know it's not what you want to hear, you just want someone to tell you what to load, but there it is. Opinions will vary.

DoctaGlockta
11-07-2011, 08:38
This thread makes me want to order another 8lb jug of Unique.

Boxerglocker
11-07-2011, 13:00
Im using titegroup, missouri bullet company 147gr lead fp, and federal primers

im using all this in a G34 with a lone wolf barrel,

im thinking of starting out at 3.2 or 3.3 and was wondering what some of you do...

i want a minimum of 850 fps but between 875-900 to be safe would be ideal...

the manual i have doesnt list any tite group with .356 lead 147gr bullets,

thanks for your help

I wouldn't recommend TG for those bullets.... and that's comming from a TG whore.

3.6g WST with get you where you want to be, with great accuracy and a lot less smoke. :supergrin:

fredj338
11-07-2011, 13:00
This thread makes me want to order another 8lb jug of Unique.

Jack is smiling right now.:supergrin:

shane.rawlings
11-07-2011, 13:43
ive seen about equal praise for unique, TG, WST, and 231...

what would you say the order of good to bad for beginner would be for those?

fredj338
11-07-2011, 17:14
ive seen about equal praise for unique, TG, WST, and 231...

what would you say the order of good to bad for beginner would be for those?

In order: Unique, W231, WST & TG. It's pretty diff to get into trouble w/ Unique, not impossible, but way more diff than TG. When you are dealing w/ small volumn/high pressure rounds, the slower the powder, the more wiggle room. Pressures build in a more linear fashion & you tend not to see pressure spikes.:dunno:

IndyGunFreak
11-07-2011, 18:15
In order: Unique, W231, WST & TG. It's pretty diff to get into trouble w/ Unique, not impossible, but way more diff than TG. When you are dealing w/ small volumn/high pressure rounds, the slower the powder, the more wiggle room. Pressures build in a more linear fashion & you tend not to see pressure spikes.:dunno:

Pretty much.

shane.rawlings
11-07-2011, 18:18
which unique should i get?

unclebob
11-07-2011, 18:26
which unique should i get?

If it wasn't for hazmat I would send you a can.

IndyGunFreak
11-07-2011, 18:51
which unique should i get?

I'm not aware of different types of Unique.

shane.rawlings
11-07-2011, 20:10
my bad, the way cabelas listed it confused me (noob thing) it looked like unique was the brand (like winchester) not the type of alliant powder

dr_hefley
11-07-2011, 20:18
My Lyman book, 49 th edition, shows a load with TiteGroup. Suggested starting grains @ 2.5, 870 fps. Suggested max load @ 2.8 grains, 943 fps. This is with a147- gr #2 alloy bullet. OAL =1.058. I've never loaded any, just going by the manual.

shane.rawlings
11-07-2011, 20:20
is there a good manual that focuses more on lead bullet loads for pistols?

GioaJack
11-07-2011, 20:25
For lead loading Lyman is the way to go.


Jack

steve4102
11-08-2011, 05:10
is there a good manual that focuses more on lead bullet loads for pistols?

Yes. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th addition
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/867465/lyman-cast-bullet-handbook-4th-edition-book

shane.rawlings
11-08-2011, 23:34
what exactly happens when you shoot lead out of a glock barrel?

IndyGunFreak
11-09-2011, 03:32
what exactly happens when you shoot lead out of a glock barrel?

Have you researched reloading at all? Your posts suggests you haven't. I'm all for folks learning to reload.... SAFELY. Your posts suggests you've not so much as done a Google search about reloading. Just out of curiosity, what reloading press have you ordered?

A Glock's rifling, will cause the barrel to "foul" (get dirty) much quicker than some other model firearms. To much lead builds up on the rifling of the barrel, without cleaning, and this will cause pressure to increase. Pressure increases past a certain point, and kaboom!.. You get to buy a new gun and hopefully you (or someone near you) will not end up in the hospital.

I know a couple of folks who shoot lead out of Glocks (probably a few in this forum), they usually just run a bore snake through the gun every 75-100rds.. and that seems to keep things under control. To me, that is to much hassle.

IGF

shane.rawlings
11-09-2011, 09:11
the press i ordered is the dillon 650, is that bad??? not really, i ordered lee classic turret, and ive done as much research as i can at this point... there are a few things that i didnt understand, so before i get my press and blow something up i figured id ask about every single question i had, compare it with what ive read in other places and form an educated opinion...

with things like this on the net to muddy up the waters i figured id ask

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59

unclebob
11-09-2011, 09:29
Clean the barrel then weigh the barrel. Shoot the gun say 50 rounds then weigh the barrel. Does the barrel weigh the same or is it heavier? If it is heavier you have lead in the barrel. Or you can Chronograph 5 rounds then shot 25 rounds then chronograph another 5 rounds. Shoot 25 more and chronograph 5 more. Did the velocity stay the same or did you get higher velocity? If you got higher velocity you are leading the barrel.

F106 Fan
11-09-2011, 10:41
I'm pretty sure Glock (and every other manufacturer) says not to use reloads either.

For the moment, I am using jacketed bullets in my G21SF. I use S&S hard cast lead bullets in my Colt Gold Cup and Sig P220. I will eventually get around to shooting them in my 21. I'll watch out for signs of leading for a while and then I'll just forget about it. I clean my guns every time out and I already have a Lewis Lead Remover that I sometimes use on my Sig.

Of course, I could simply change the barrel to one with conventional rifling but that's kind of expensive if it really isn't necessary. And then you get into the undersized chamber issue of the Lone Wolf barrel which brings along another set of problems or perhaps it's just better to buy the KKM barrel.

Now, as to cast bullets on a Springfield Armory XD 9mm: the vaporized lube gets under the Loaded Chamber Indicator (LCI) and keeps it high even when the chamber is empty. A false positive isn't the worst thing, I suppose.

So, I have to drive out the pin, hope I don't lose the tiny (did I mention TINY!) spring and then try to clean out the slot. It's harder than you would think. Hoppe's doesn't seem to cut through the congealed lube. So, I scrape and scrape until it's clean. What a PITA...

I never liked the LCI anyway. Next time it comes out, it's staying out. I did buy some replacement springs and pins; just in case.

And all this aggravation to save a bunch of money on ammo...

Richard

fredj338
11-09-2011, 11:49
Now, as to cast bullets on a Springfield Armory XD 9mm: the vaporized lube gets under the Loaded Chamber Indicator (LCI) and keeps it high even when the chamber is empty. A false positive isn't the worst thing, I suppose.

So, I have to drive out the pin, hope I don't lose the tiny (did I mention TINY!) spring and then try to clean out the slot. It's harder than you would think. Hoppe's doesn't seem to cut through the congealed lube. So, I scrape and scrape until it's clean. What a PITA...

I never liked the LCI anyway. Next time it comes out, it's staying out. I did buy some replacement springs and pins; just in case.

And all this aggravation to save a bunch of money on ammo...

Richard
I am shooting cast in my 45XDTAC, I haven't seen this issue as of yet. I only have maybe 2K rds thru it, but almost all case lead.:dunno: The lsudge from lead/carbon should clean up w/ Gunscrubber or other solvent. It is pretty stubborn if left for along time.