What is an acceptable time to draw and fire from concealment? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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nathanours
11-06-2011, 22:15
Me and my friend were practicing drawing and firing 2 rounds at different targets from concealment. It got me thinking about what would be an acceptable speed? Obviously the faster the better, but do any of you time how long it takes? We've gotten it to a good bit under a second. Here is a vid from yesterday where I am shooting a man-sized tree from 11 yards away with 2 shots.

The sound is off, so you can tell when the shots are by watching the gun jump.

http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/glock19_9mm/?action=view&current=VID_20111105_125600.mp4

glockman513
11-06-2011, 22:20
Me and my friend were practicing drawing and firing 2 rounds at different targets from concealment. It got me thinking about what would be an acceptable speed? Obviously the faster the better, but do any of you time how long it takes? We've gotten it to a good bit under a second. Here is a vid from yesterday where I am shooting a man-sized tree from 11 yards away with 2 shots.

The sound is off, so you can tell when the shots are by watching the gun jump.

http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/glock19_9mm/?action=view&current=VID_20111105_125600.mp4

I'd say you're there.

vista461
11-06-2011, 22:35
The sound is off, so you can tell when the shots are by watching the gun jump.


Sound is working on my end.

nathanours
11-06-2011, 22:43
Sound is working on my end.

Sorry, I mean that the sound doesn't go along with the picture. What actually happened is my phone camera couldn't pick up the sound, so what you are actually hearing is the echo a little after I actually shoot.

dhkaiser
11-07-2011, 03:54
Speed looks good. Gun handling might need work, it appears you are pointing at your foot when done. Here is a video of the proper way to reholster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MZ0ezfDDw

Bren
11-07-2011, 04:13
If you are really interested in developing speed and seeing how your skills compare to others, go find the nearest IDPA match.

Japle
11-07-2011, 07:42
Having seen the times of IDPA shooters, I'd say that 1.2 to 1.8 seconds is about average for shooters who do well in competition.

The "pros" will do much better.

Bren
11-07-2011, 07:54
Having seen the times of IDPA shooters, I'd say that 1.2 to 1.8 seconds is about average for shooters who do well in competition.

The "pros" will do much better.

About right. Still, to really measure that and practice he's going to need a shot timer. The easiest and best way to both measure your skills and gain skill/practice is to go to a local organized match. It would take an awesome range and a lot of time and money to set up for yourself what you can get for $15-20 at a local IDPA match. Here, our biggest complaint is that even the local weekend matches last most of the day and have a large number of stages and rounds fired, so it cuts into our Saturday (including an hour drive each way). Lots of moving, falling, running, turning targets, shooting from all positions, reloading in all positions, shooting on the move, backwards, forwards and sideways, loading on the move, using all types of cover (cars, mailboxes, walls, doors, windows) - pretty much in every match every time.

nathanours
11-07-2011, 07:57
Speed looks good. Gun handling might need work, it appears you are pointing at your foot when done. Here is a video of the proper way to reholster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MZ0ezfDDw

Interesting video, thanks. Ya the gun is directly down at my side, not pointing quite at my foot, but maybe a little to close.

The way we were timing it was just to put the videos on Windows movie maker afterwards, and seeing how long it took from the frame where he said 'go' to when the last of the 2 shots was fired.

The IDPA thing sounds great, I'll have to look into seeing if there are any of those in my area. My goal isn't so much competition with others though, as it is to see if my skills are yet adequate for self-defense.

M1A Shooter
11-07-2011, 14:58
IDPA is definately the thing to do to test your skills so far.

but in reality, you only have to be faster than the other guy and only hits count.

DaneA
11-07-2011, 17:24
but in reality, you only have to be faster than the other guy and only hits count.

This is all that matters.


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A6Gator
11-07-2011, 17:26
The IDPA thing sounds great, I'll have to look into seeing if there are any of those in my area. My goal isn't so much competition with others though, as it is to see if my skills are yet adequate for self-defense.

When I shoot a match I shoot against myself. Sure, I'm classified and compete in the same class/division against others, but I compete with myself. Did I shoot the stages as well as I could? What did I goof up? Why? What do I need to do to correct it? What do I need to do to shoot it better? I've found that the guys that shoot IDPA are consistently good guys, and if you ask, they'll help you with problems they see. It's not tactical training, but having the added stress of being on the clock and a bunch of the bubbas watching you will make you focus on what you're doing. If nothing else, your gun handling skills will improve. If you beat someone else, fine. For some guys, that's the only reason they shoot. For me, not so much, I'm concerned about making that guy staring back from the mirror a better shooter.

Goodspeed(TPF)
11-07-2011, 17:29
1.0-1.5 seconds sounds about right to me. Ymmv.

slama683
11-08-2011, 01:31
IDPA is definately the thing to do to test your skills so far.

but in reality, you only have to be faster than the other guy and only hits count.

Agree. Please be wary of chasing speed and focusing on nothing else. Being aware of your environment may indicate a problem with plenty of warning. If you are already facing two bad mens with guns and bad intentions, the fastest draw will probably be too slow.

Master_Blaster1911
11-08-2011, 06:22
Were you guestimating under a second, or do you have a timer to know for certain?

Audiotory starts are reportedly faster than visual starts, and both depend on state of mind- being ready and thinking towards the draw is the fastest- thinking about the condoms, chocolate, flowers, and wine and too long drive to the lady's how with sudden need to draw is likely a lot slower and you reset your OODA loop.

Finally, if either of those shots missed the tree or skimmed off it or hit it on the periphery, your speed was too fast. Those represent possible injury or death to another person other than the BG and the corresponding criminal and civil liabilities in your state.

Other that the above observations, that was mighty sporty. As stated above- don't drop that gun back down to your side. It's a bad habit.

nathanours
11-08-2011, 08:59
Were you guestimating under a second, or do you have a timer to know for certain?

Audiotory starts are reportedly faster than visual starts, and both depend on state of mind- being ready and thinking towards the draw is the fastest- thinking about the condoms, chocolate, flowers, and wine and too long drive to the lady's how with sudden need to draw is likely a lot slower and you reset your OODA loop.

Finally, if either of those shots missed the tree or skimmed off it or hit it on the periphery, your speed was too fast. Those represent possible injury or death to another person other than the BG and the corresponding criminal and civil liabilities in your state.

Other that the above observations, that was mighty sporty. As stated above- don't drop that gun back down to your side. It's a bad habit.


Thanks, I'll watch the gun by my side thing. Both shots hit the tree within about 4 inches of each other in the middle. Both were about 2-3 inches left of the spot where I was aiming though, but still definitely COM.

The way we timed it was to put it on windows movie maker and select the frames where my friend said go to where the last shot was fired. Windows movie maker will tell you how long of an interval that was.

JD HHI 6092
11-08-2011, 10:44
Faster than the other guy.

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Travclem
11-08-2011, 10:50
As fast as you can physically do it without Grebnering yourself.

Sippo
11-08-2011, 10:56
Are you fast enough???? Depends on who's still standing after the shootings done.

awq134
11-08-2011, 13:57
IDPA is definately the thing to do to test your skills so far.

but in reality, you only have to be faster than the other guy and only hits count.
you beat me to it, i was going to say the same thing, granted in every situation, the "other guy" might not always be at the same speed.

blk69stang
11-08-2011, 14:09
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Cheytac
11-08-2011, 14:21
As fast as you can physically do it without Grebnering yourself.


:rofl:

series1811
11-08-2011, 15:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zJlsc8GU50&feature=related

This is about right.

Deaf Smith
11-08-2011, 17:01
What is an acceptable time to draw and fire from concealment?

Faster than you opponent. That is the ONLY acceptable time limit. The other guy may be slow, or fast, or telegraphs his intentions, but you still have to beat whatever it is.

See there really is a stop watch used in every gunfight. That's the bullet that stops them. Until then the fight goes on and the clock ticks.

Become as fast and accurate as you can. Keep in mind no matter how fast you get if you throw away your accuracy you will only harm yourself. It is all a combination of speed, power. and accuracy.

But you do have to beat the other guy and sometimes speed and accuracy will compensate for lack of power (but only sometimes.)

Deaf

OctoberRust
11-09-2011, 07:00
About right. Still, to really measure that and practice he's going to need a shot timer. The easiest and best way to both measure your skills and gain skill/practice is to go to a local organized match. It would take an awesome range and a lot of time and money to set up for yourself what you can get for $15-20 at a local IDPA match. Here, our biggest complaint is that even the local weekend matches last most of the day and have a large number of stages and rounds fired, so it cuts into our Saturday (including an hour drive each way). Lots of moving, falling, running, turning targets, shooting from all positions, reloading in all positions, shooting on the move, backwards, forwards and sideways, loading on the move, using all types of cover (cars, mailboxes, walls, doors, windows) - pretty much in every match every time.


Agreed with what Bren said.

I just started going 2 weeks ago and have been to two matches total. Funnest thing ever IMO.

Master_Blaster1911
11-09-2011, 07:37
Thanks, I'll watch the gun by my side thing. Both shots hit the tree within about 4 inches of each other in the middle. Both were about 2-3 inches left of the spot where I was aiming though, but still definitely COM.

The way we timed it was to put it on windows movie maker and select the frames where my friend said go to where the last shot was fired. Windows movie maker will tell you how long of an interval that was.

All that sounds fully acceptable; speed and accuracy are a tactic and a damn fine one. We all have things to improve upon and seeking constructive observations and criticisms are a part of it. Shooting video of yourself and watching from third-person perspective is very educational.