The Dog Breed of Peace Declares Jihad on Central KY... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dukeboy01
11-11-2011, 17:21
Lock up your husbands, lock up your daughters, lock up your goats, they bitin' everybody up in here!

October 31: First they came for the husbands...
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Dog_attack_leaves_man_in_critical_condition_132887358.html

November 7: This one didn't make the local news. Here's the direct quote from our duty report, with the involved officer's name and other identifying information redacted:

Monday, November 7, 2011:

· At 1145 hours, units responded to XXXX Stowbridge Lane in reference to an off-duty discharge of a weapon. Sergeant XXXXXX was contacted by a neighbor saying that two Pit Bull dogs were running at large and refusing to allow him to get back into his house. Sergeant XXXXXX went outside with his weapon and was retrieving his O.C. from his vehicle when the dogs attacked him. He fired at one dog and the dogs ran off. Sergeant XXXXXX believes he struck the dog he shot at and the owners were able to get the other dog back into their house. The dog that he shot at has not been located. Animal Control was requested and responded. Sergeant XXXXXX will forward the appropriate paperwork through his chain of command. (Case Number 2011-00XXXXXX)

November 8: Little girls apparently taste like chicken to pitbulls. They find their faces particularly tender and juicy.
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Pit_bull_attacks_eight-year-old_girl_133506478.html

November 9: Little known fact: Pitbulls are huge fans of the T-Rex scene in the original Jurassic Park.
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Pit_bull_kills_other_pets_in_neighborhood__133570493.html

And then there was another attack on an 85 year- old woman this afternoon in Lexington. It was just reported on the 6:00 news on the local CBS affiliate. I'll add a link when one is available.

Newcop761
11-11-2011, 17:47
Cue the pit-bull apologists in 5...4...3...2...

I hope everyone recovers quickly...

A6Gator
11-11-2011, 18:09
Wait until the Council on American-Pitbull Relations hears about this one... Lawsuits out the wazoo! Discrimination all over KY country! :supergrin:

MeefZah
11-11-2011, 18:15
Lock up your husbands, lock up your daughters, lock up your goats, they bitin' everybody up in here!

LOL!

Yes! :rofl:

Vigilant
11-11-2011, 18:18
Okay, I'll say it:

He was a good dog, just trying to take a bite out of crime....

Mrs.Cicero
11-11-2011, 18:34
He'd bitten some folks before, but he'd found God/Dog? and was turning his life around...

Mrs.Cicero

MVD
11-11-2011, 21:11
Maybe Y'all just don't know how to train dogs down in KY.

Dalton Wayne
11-11-2011, 21:14
Pit bull who are raised in loving homes do not turn on people period!

MVD
11-11-2011, 21:18
Pit bull who are raised in loving homes do not turn on people period!

Second that. I'll also add properly trained.

PinkoCommie
11-11-2011, 21:19
This one time, a pitbull followed my smokin' hot wife for seven miles, and then he bit her. He wasn't wearing his hat, nor did he have any probably cause. Fortunately, my wife had declined to give up her CCW on a traffic stop just minutes earlier, so she shot him. She carries a 10mm, so all that was left was some teeth.

SixkillerEnterprises
11-11-2011, 21:21
Everyone knows that Chihuahuas bite more people than Pit Bulls do. They're the real threat to our society.

Vigilant
11-11-2011, 21:26
This one time, a pitbull followed my smokin' hot wife for seven miles, and then he bit her. He wasn't wearing his hat, nor did he have any probably cause. Fortunately, my wife had declined to give up her CCW on a traffic stop just minutes earlier, so she shot him. She carries a 10mm, so all that was left was some teeth.

Rumor has it that her 10MM was a BUG, and that her primary was a nice Lorcin, which she kept unloaded in case some nutcase dog went for her primary. :rofl:

rhikdavis
11-11-2011, 21:31
I hear the roosters are pretty mean in KY.

dano1427
11-12-2011, 00:40
Pit bull who are raised in loving homes do not turn on people period!

That's what Darla Napora probably thought, before her pit killed her...

Vigilant
11-12-2011, 00:44
I hear the roosters are pretty mean in KY.

I hear the sheep are pretty... uh... never mind... :supergrin:

Mayhem like Me
11-12-2011, 07:09
Second that. I'll also add properly trained.

Third that with a muzzle....

Dukeboy01
11-12-2011, 08:19
As promised, here's the link to the story of the elderly lady who who was lightly mauled yesterday...

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/133717038.html

Hack
11-12-2011, 11:04
I hear the sheep are pretty... uh... never mind... :supergrin:

I am not even going to ask what brought that up. Nope. Not gonna. :supergrin:

steveksux
11-12-2011, 13:14
I hear the sheep are pretty... uh... never mind... :supergrin:3 words.

Sheep. Offenders. Registry.

Randy

Bruce M
11-12-2011, 16:06
Hope they recover. I think this is the first time I have ever seen the words "person mauled" and "pit bull" in the same sentence...

PROSOUTH
11-13-2011, 19:05
Cue the pit-bull apologists in 5...4...3...2...1

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN !

They have been highly trained to no longer respond to your provocations and denouncing the Dog of Peace.

I had a trainer tell me years ago that anyone could teach a K-9 to bite, but it took someone good to teach him to not bite and to take the command of letting go when he did................

I really don't think the American Pit Bull Terror has a training problem. I just think it is a problem with their nature, and that isn't going to go away with any amount of training.
:faint:

Walk Soft
11-13-2011, 19:14
I hear the roosters are pretty mean in KY.
you heard right:cool:

Sharkey
11-13-2011, 19:24
Whew. We got lucky this weekend. We spent 3 days camping with our pit mix unleashed 90% of the time. Countless people and dogs past our site with no issues. We did go hiking with her and she came upon a couple with a lab. She went to stealth mode, didn't bark and ran up to her wagging her tail. She's vicious I tell you! :supergrin:

trifecta
11-13-2011, 19:29
As promised, here's the link to the story of the elderly lady who who was lightly mauled yesterday...

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/133717038.html

I feel bad, but something about "lightly mauled" just made me laugh.

Anyway...How do we even know these are really pit bulls?! Eyewitness testimony is highly unreliable. Where is the DNA? Oh wait, it's on grandma's leg.

indigent
11-13-2011, 19:30
I hear the sheep are pretty... uh... never mind... :supergrin:

Shouldn't this post be in the in the Cultural Diversity thread?

IndyGunFreak
11-13-2011, 19:35
I really don't think the American Pit Bull Terror has a training problem. I just think it is a problem with their nature, and that isn't going to go away with any amount of training.
:faint:

I'm not a "pit bull apologist".. but I've been in many homes, with many different breeds of dog in my line of work, and totally disagree with the above.

When a customer asks me "Do dogs bother you? " (ie, do you want me to put them outside)... I very very rarely look at the animal, and instead look at the owner, to get a first impression of them. That tells me all I need to know about how their dog will behave. To be quite truthful, this has let me down about 2-3x in about 10yrs, despite being thousands of homes w/ dogs.

I've been in homes that had several pit bulls/rottweilers/etc... and the dogs were no problem at all. Been in other homes, where I've asked customers to put up a chihuahua, mini-pinscher or some other small breed.

Pit Bull problems are almost entirely owner related.

IndyGunFreak
11-14-2011, 02:50
That's what Darla Napora probably thought, before her pit killed her...

No offense at all to the deceased, but.. going off my original post.... After doing some Google searching, had I went to that house... I would have asked for that dog to be put up.

clancy
11-14-2011, 05:53
3 words.

Sheep. Offenders. Registry.

Randy

That will never work. Imagune the sheep on the witness stand, being questioned:

DA: "Did that man molest you in any way"?

Sheep: "Naaaa".

PROSOUTH
11-14-2011, 13:16
Ind Gun Freak "Been in other homes, where I've asked customers to put up a chihuahua, mini-pinscher or some other small breed."

SixkillerEnterprises
"Everyone knows that Chihuahuas bite more people than Everyone knows that Chihuahuas bite more people than Pitt Bulls do. They're the real threat to our society."

Yeah Chihuahuas are bad about snagging the polyester uniform pants I wear.
VS
Pitt Bulls are real bad about fatally mauling people, children and other animals.

I assure you that if pitt bulls weighed just 4 lbs and only snagged the material on my pants with their little teeth I would not worry to much about them just as I do Chihuahuas now.

My God people, just look at the News Cast from around the world ! When was the last time you saw a news story where a Chihuahua ripped someone's face or arm off? Yes they are vicious and annoying little animals but they are not 70 or so pounds and lethal like a Pitt. If they were I would be identifying it here as well. Then look at the numerous incidents recorded about Pitts. Are you blind and can't see?

You defend them with
Whew. We got lucky this weekend. We spent 3 days camping with our pit mix unleashed 90% of the time. Countless people and dogs past our site with no issues

And make light of the situation trying to infer that we see them as Zombies that awaken in the night and come to terrorize the world.

Well you know what? That is probably close to the truth !

I believe Sharky when he made the statement about how well his Pitt behaved this weekend. But how is Sharky or you others going to explain it when your trained,well behaved Pitt turns and rips some child's arm off?

Dukeboy01"You want it to be one way... but it's the other way." - Marlo Stanfield :whistling:

November 8: Little girls apparently taste like chicken to pit bulls. They find their faces particularly tender and juicy.
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/P...133506478.html

November 9: Little known fact: Pit bulls are huge fans of the T-Rex scene in the original Jurassic Park.
http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/P...133570493.html

And then there was another attack on an 85 year- old woman this afternoon in Lexington. It was just reported on the 6:00 news on the local CBS affiliate. I'll add a link when one is available.

I guess it's just like all of the Mamas from the Hood telling the Newsman about her son "It's just 'cause he's black. He is such a good boy, loves his Mama, turning his life around, goes to see all of his baby mama's and his children every Christmas, Pays his bondsman every month right on time. He was in Church just last week, Preacher did accuse him of taking the collection box, but he is such a good boy I know he never took it." blah blah blah.

Look at the records people, it is happening ! You let the Devil in your home and there will be Hell to pay..................( yeah, quote me on this one)
:dunno:

"I just can't believe it !He was such a good dog, he always played with children and never even growled until that day when...... ":crying:

SixkillerEnterprises
11-14-2011, 13:55
My God people, just look at the News Cast from around the world ! When was the last time you saw a news story where a Chihuahua ripped someone's face or arm off? Yes they are vicious and annoying little animals but they are not 70 or so pounds and lethal like a Pitt. If they were I would be identifying it here as well. Then look at the numerous incidents recorded about Pitts. Are you blind and can't see?

You thought I was being serious. That's priceless.
:rofl:

PROSOUTH
11-14-2011, 14:26
You thought I was being serious. That's priceless.
:rofl:

Nahhhh, it just happened to fit in the rant ! :soap:

:rofl:

PROSOUTH
11-14-2011, 15:25
Wednesday, January 5, 2011

In the 3-year period from 2006 to 2008, pit bull type dogs killed 52 Americans and accounted for 59% of all fatal attacks. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 73% of these deaths.

2010 U.S. Dog Bite Fatality Statistics - DogsBite.org

Fatal Dog Attack Statistics

DogsBite.org recorded 33 fatal dog attacks in 2010.

1 Citations of each victim's story are located on the Fatality Citations page.

The last year the CDC recorded and studied dog bite fatalities by breed was 1998. Likely due to pressures from pro-pit bull, animal advocacy and dog fancying groups, the CDC stopped studying these deaths by breed. The only other known entity that tracks this information is Animal People

.2 DogsBite.org has joined in this effort.

2010 Dog Bite Fatalities

33 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2010. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 650 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 67% (22). Pit bulls make up approximately 5% of the total U.S. dog population.3

In 2010, the combination of pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (4) accounted for 79% of all fatal attacks. In the 6-year period from 2005 to 2010, this same combination accounted for 71% (129) of the total recorded deaths (181).

The combined breakdown between the two breeds is substantial. From 2005 to 2010, pit bulls killed 104 Americans, about one citizen every 21 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 25 Americans, about one citizen every 88 days.

2010 data shows that 61% (20) of the attacks occurred to children (11 years and younger) and 39% occurred to adults. Of the children, 75% (15) occurred to ages 4 and younger. Within this same age group, males represented 60% of the victims.

2010 data also shows that 33% (11) of the fatal incidents involved multiple dogs.4 Nearly a third, 30% (10), involved breeding on the dog owner's property either actively or in the recent past, and 9% (3) involved chained dogs.

Dog ownership information for 2010 shows that family dogs comprised 73% (24) of the attacks that resulted in death; 88% (29) of these incidents occurred on the dog owner's property and 12% (4) occurred off the owner's property.

The state of California led fatalities in 2010 with 7 deaths; pit bulls contributed to 83% (6). Florida followed with 3 deaths and Georgia, Illinois, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas each had 2 deaths.
1At least seven additional victims died due to dog bite-related injuries in 2010. These deaths involved non-dog bite injury, minor dog bite injury or lacked a "reasonably clear" determination of death due to dog bite injury and are not included in the DogsBite.org statistical fatality data: Carolyn Baker, 63-years old (Cleveland heights, OH), Kenneth Bock, adult male (Snohomish County, WA), Hao Yun "Eddie" Lin, 33-years old (Oceanside, CA), Miracle Parham, 14-years old (McDonough, GA), Richard Martratt, 64-years old (Van Zandt County, TX), Anna Smith Brown, 68-years old (Wilmington, NC) and Larry Armstrong, 55-years old (Gallup, NM).
2Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People.
3Decade of Adoption Focus Fails to Reduce Shelter Killing, by Merritt Clifton, Animal People, July/August 2009
4Modified from 12 to 11 June 30, 2011 to reflect new data revealed by the Kyle Holland investigation


Q: What is a pit bull type dog?
A pit bull type dog is a combination of dog breeds that includes the American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American bulldog1 and any other pure bred or mixed breed dog that is a combination of these dogs. Weight and shape can vary significantly amongst pit bull type dogs, from 35 to 100 plus pounds. (Please see Disguise Breed Name to learn more about the deliberate renaming and mislabeling of pit bulls throughout history.)

Q: What is the history of the pit bull?
The blood sport of "bull baiting" began over 1,000 years ago in England (various sources dispute this date). What is undisputed is that by 1500, bull baiting had progressed to Britain's national pastime. Bulldogs were reportedly first mentioned by name in 1631, referring to their function rather than a distinct dog breed. By 1800, and through further selective breeding, the bulldog developed into a compact muscular dog characterized by tremendous jaw strength.2
Due to public outrage, bull baiting was banned in England in 1835. Bulldog breeders and owners then moved to the sport of "ratting," where a number of rats were placed into a pit and wagers were made on how many rats the dog could kill in a certain time period. To increase agility, quickness and prey-drive in the bulldog, ratters crossed the breed with terriers. Essentially, it was the sport of ratting that combined the bulldog and terrier into the modern day pit bull terrier.
On the heels of ratting, dogfighting developed. Pit bulls and dogfighting were exported to America as settlers made their way to the New World. In 1884, the American Kennel Club was formed but rejected pit bulls due to their use in dogfighting. In response, Chauncey Z. Bennett formed the United Kennel Club in 1898 to bring formal recognition to the pit bull breed. At that time, Bennett also drew up rules and regulations for dogfighting to bring "organization" to the blood sport.3

Q: What is dogfighting and what does it have to do with pit bulls?Pit bulls are the dog of choice amongst dogmen, individuals who fight their pit bulls against other pit bulls. Dogmen consider pit bull terriers, who they commonly call "100% bulldogs," to be the ultimate canine gladiator. Pit bulls were selectively bred for "gameness," the ability to finish a fight. A truly gamedog will continue fighting "on stumps," two or more broken legs, and far worse.4 (Please see excerpts from The Complete Gamedog, by Ed and Chris Faron to learn more).
The blood sport of dogfighting involves a contest between two dogs, primarily pit bulls, fighting each other in front of spectators for entertainment and gambling purposes. Other felonious activities, such as illegal drugs, often accompany dogfight matches. A single dogfight averages about an hour in length but can last two or more.5 A dogfight begins when a referee says, "Face your dogs," then says, "Let go." The fight ends when one of the dogs will not or cannot continue.
The arrest and conviction of Michael Vick shows that dogfighting still proliferates in the U.S. Law enforcement education, however, is on the rise. In July 2009, authorities unleashed an 8-state simultaneous dogfighting sting and seized over 450 dogs.6 In December 2008, Edward Faron of Wildside Kennels, known as the "godfather" of dogfighting, was arrested and charged. Authorities seized 127 pit bulls from his property. Faron pleaded guilty to 14 counts of felony dogfighting.7

Q: Why do I always read about pit bulls in the news?When a pit bull attacks, the injury inflicted may be catastrophic. First responders, such as police officers and firefighters, understand this as do members of the media, who are quick to report these attacks. Ongoing social tension also keeps pit bulls in the news. The pit bull problem is nearly 30-years old.8 In this time, most lawmakers have been "too afraid" to take breed-specific action to correct the problem. Due to this failure, horrific maulings continue to make headlines.
About half of all media reports regarding pit bulls involve police officers shooting dangerous pit bulls in the line of duty.9 Since the late 1970's pit bulls have been used extensively in criminal operations for drug dealers, gang members and other violent offenders. The pit bull terrier is the breed of choice for criminals. This choice is directly linked to the pit bull's selectively bred traits of robust jaw strength, a deadly bite style, tenacity (gameness) and a high tolerance to pain.10

Q: Why do people say that pit bulls "don't let go?"
Through selective breeding, pit bulls have developed enormous jaw strength, as well as a ruinous "hold and shake" bite style, designed to inflict the maximum damage possible on their victims. This bite trait delivered winning results in the fighting pit. When the Colorado Supreme Court upheld the Denver pit bull ban in 2005, the high court set aside characteristics that pit bulls displayed when they attack that differ from all other dog breeds. One of these characteristics was their lethal bite:
"[pit bulls] inflict more serious wounds than other breeds. They tend to attack the deep muscles, to hold on, to shake, and to cause ripping of tissues. Pit bull attacks were compared to shark attacks."11
Leading pit bull education websites, such as Pit Bull Rescue Central, encourage pit bull owners to be responsible and to always carry a "break stick" -- a tool used to pry open a pit bull's jaws -- in case their dog "accidentally" gets into a fight. These same websites also warn that using a break stick on any other dog breed may cause serious injury to the person.12 This is true because no other dog breed possesses the pit bull's tenacity combined with a "hold and shake" bite style.
One of the most powerful examples of a pit bull "not letting go" occurred in an Ohio courtroom. During the Toledo v. Tellings trial (Tellings was convicted of violating the City of Toledo's pit bull ordinance), Lucas County Dog Warden Tom Skeldon showed a videotape of a tranquilized pit bull hanging from a steel cable. The dog is essentially unconscious and still does not release its grip. At the time of the taping, the pit bull was being housed at the Lucas County Animal Shelter.13

Q: Do pit bulls bite more than other dogs?
Depending upon the community in which you live and the ratio of pit bulls within it, yes and no. But whether a pit bull bites more or less than another dog breed is not the point. The issue is the acute damage a pit bull inflicts when it does choose to bite. The pit bull's "hold and shake" bite style causes severe bone and muscle damage, often inflicting permanent and disfiguring injury. Moreover, once a pit bull starts an attack, firearm intervention may be the only way to stop it.
When analyzing dog bite statistics, it is important to understand what constitutes a bite. A single bite -- recorded and used in dog bite statistics -- is a bite that "breaks the skin." One bite by a poodle that leaves two puncture wounds is recorded the same way as a pit bull mauling, which can constitute hundreds of puncture wounds and extensive soft tissue loss. Despite the "quagmire" of dog bite statistics, pit bulls are leading bite counts across U.S. cities and counties.14

Q: How come pit bull owners say, "My dog might lick you to death."
To understand the experience of owning a negatively perceived dog, Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy did a study on pit bull owners. Researchers found that owners of out-law dog breeds directly feel the stigma targeted at their breed and resort to various tactics to lessen it. One of the tactics included attempts to counterbalance the pit bull's menacing appearance and physical power with overwhelming "affectionate" behavior, such as: "My dog might lick you to death."15

Q: Why does my friend say, "Pit bulls are dog-aggressive not human-aggressive?"
Due to selective breeding for the purposes of dogfighting, pit bulls are highly dog-aggressive. This aggression is not limited to dogs; pit bulls frequently kill other companion pets and domesticated animals. Leading pit bull education websites warn pit bull owners to, "Never trust your pit bull not to fight." These same websites also state that pit bulls should never be left alone with another dog or animal.16 The practical question is: Why is "pit bull dog aggression" tolerated at all?
Pit bull dog aggression is unacceptable for two reasons. In many instances it leads to human aggression. A common scenario is the following: A loose pit bull attacks a leashed dog being walked by its owner. The owner gets seriously injured trying to stop the attack. In 2009, two human beings suffered death due to pit bull dog aggression: Rosie Humphreys, who had been walking her two poodles, and Carter Delaney, who had tried to protect a smaller dog in his home.
Secondly, far too many beloved companion pets and domesticated animals suffer a violent death by the powerful jaws of pit bull terriers each year. In some instances, these attacks involve pit bulls charging through screen doors of private homes -- in a home invasion attack -- to kill the pet living inside.17 Owners of the pet are then forced to watch as their pet is disemboweled by the pit bull and pray that the dog does not turn its attention on an innocent family member next.

Q: What is the best thing we can do for communities and pit bulls?
The best thing we can do for communities and pit bulls is to regulate pit bull ownership and pit bull breeding. Lowering the pit bull population will reduce the number of serious maulings, as well as pit bull euthanizations. In the July/August 2009 issue of Animal People, the group estimated that of the 1,663,167 shelter dogs projected to be euthanized in 2009, pit bulls accounted for 58%. This is true despite the fact that pit bulls only make up 5% of the total U.S. dog population.18

Over 650 U.S. cities and nearly all privatized military housing -- the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps now have uniform pet policies -- have adopted breed-specific laws to correct the pit bull problem. Such measures include: mandatory sterilization, liability insurance and strict containment rules. The most progressive legislation bans the future breeding of pit bulls (a pit bull ban). In just a few years, these communities see a significant drop in pit bull bites and euthanizations.

Oh yeah and here is the Pitt Bull Owners Disclaimer to this web-site so you won’t have to look it up.

http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2010/03/the-truth-behind-dogsbiteorg.

PROSOUTH
11-14-2011, 15:30
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/6143423/dog-bite-victims-testify-for-stricter-laws?redirected=true

Victims of dog attacks spoke on Capitol Hill Tuesday to push for new legislation that would strengthen dog laws in Tennessee.

Senator Doug Jackson said the laws are so outdated, they haven't been changed in 100 years. He said it's time for a change. He wants to get rid of Tennessee's First Bite Rule.

"[It] says that the first mauling is free. If a pit bull attacks you, you can't sue the owner unless you can show the dog has previously attacked someone else," Jackson said.

Tyler Throneberry spoke about the day in 1994 he was attacked by a pack of three dogs that ripped off his arm, and damaged his face. After more than 40 surgeries, Throneberry made a desperate plea to lawmakers to support a brand new bill.

Throneberry was angry because the dog's owners were not liable for the damage done to him.

We haven't heard a word from the owners from day one. No ‘I'm sorry, what can we do?" Tyler's father Joe Throneberry said. "I want to see the legislature put in some kind of laws on the books that we can enforce and make the owner liable for whatever your dog does."

Others also testified and called for tougher dog bite legislation, like Susan Drury who needed 80 stitches after a pack of dogs attacked her while she was jogging.

Currently, if a dog attacks a person, the owner is fined $50. In 2005, 7,000 people visited the ER in Tennessee because of dog bites. Nearly 200 of those were so serious they required a hospital stay.

http://wtvf.images.worldnow.com/images/6143423_BG2.jpg

I know this childs father Joe and remember the ordeal he went through trying to save his son's life from this vicious Pitt Bull attack. This is why I don't like them along with the Dog of Peace being 90% of the dog calls I answer in my county.

StarfoxHowl
11-14-2011, 15:55
It seems that in every case where there has been a dog bite, the dog's owner is nowhere in sight.

PROSOUTH
11-14-2011, 15:58
It seems that in every case where there has been a dog bite, the dog's owner is nowhere in sight.

My bad, shouldn't have said that, sorry

cowboywannabe
11-14-2011, 15:59
if more pitbulls wore hats this kind of thing wouldnt have happened.

PROSOUTH
11-14-2011, 16:15
It seems that in every case where there has been a dog bite, the dog's owner is nowhere in sight.

Yes it does seem so, I still think it is their nature that causes them to react as they do.

Sharkey
11-14-2011, 23:04
And make light of the situation trying to infer that we see them as Zombies that awaken in the night and come to terrorize the world.

Well you know what? That is probably close to the truth !

I believe Sharky when he made the statement about how well his Pitt behaved this weekend. But how is Sharky or you others going to explain it when your trained,well behaved Pitt turns and rips some child's arm off?

Look at the records people, it is happening ! You let the Devil in your home and there will be Hell to pay..................( yeah, quote me on this one)
:dunno:

"I just can't believe it !He was such a good dog, he always played with children and never even growled until that day when...... ":crying:

I think we've seen this thread before. You have folks who think the breed is a bunch of killa's and you have folks like myself and others who think they are smart, loyal, and loveable dogs. Have you ever watched, Pit Boss or Pit Bulls and Paroles?

Fact is you have bad owners and in a few cases, bad dogs. Their bite and grip (except for mine) is strong and they are a true warrior breed and that makes the news. The fact that they are the breed of choice for scroatbags doesn't help either. That said, there is tons of cases where the breed was a role model on tv, abused dogs have been adopted out and make wonderful family dogs, hell even several Hollywood stars have them.

If you own a pit, especially a full pit, you need to be an extra responsible dog owner but I have absolutely 0 qualms with my current dog and the pit mix that we had before her.

I'll never convince you because your mind is made up. Hopefully those on the fence (like my wife and another cop buddy use to be) will read the thread and be smart enough not to judge a whole breed by some who mostly were abused and/or had terrible or non-existent owners.

PROSOUTH
11-15-2011, 13:28
I think we've seen this thread before. If you own a pit, especially a full pit, you need to be an extra responsible dog owner but I have absolutely 0 qualms with my current dog and the pit mix that we had before her.

Sharky, I wasn't trying to attack you or be personal about this so I apologize if it was received that way.

I'll never convince you because your mind is made up. Hopefully those on the fence (like my wife and another cop buddy use to be) will read the thread and be smart enough not to judge a whole breed by some who mostly were abused and/or had terrible or non-existent owners

You are correct, my mind is made up because I have seen to many calls involving the Pitt. It's call "Totality of Circumstance" The evidence is overwhelming to convince you. The only comparison I can even relate to this is that of a Gangbanger's Mother who continues to state "Not my baby he didn't do that" and when he turns on her it's to late.

I have a friend whose son is pictured above and remember the carnage from the great family dogs of the neighbors that tore his little body apart at 3 yrs old.

Yes we've had this debate before and will probably have it again when someone post another horror story about an encounter with a Pitt that resulted in lifelong disablement or death. Then again the Pitt Bull supporters will come out and support their sweet puppy that would never do anything like that.

I only hope that someone eventually will come forward and repent their mistake for believing such and admit that his belief facilitated the death of another poor soul who went to get the mail and fell prey to his Pitt. I'd like to see him have the strength to come forward and admit that he was wrong to support such a beast of society.

I'll never convince you because your mind is made up.

And I Sir feel that I too have failed again to convince you and others. You have been overwhelmed with continued information, incidents, and listed above are even the names and cities of residence of the numerous victims. And the response is over and over the same excuse of "Not my sweet puppy".

The Pitt supporters can only tell me how sweet his little devil is and he would never do that, it is the bad owners that cause this. Well then there are enough bad owners in the world that the good ones should see the damage done and for the best of mankind end the beast's rampage

I have been to to many calls where the Pitt is friendly upon my arrival with blood dripping from his chin and splattered up to his knees, sometimes they are still on their rampage slinging and parading their prey. I have seen it all and probably still have videos from some of my calls somewhere on file.

:dunno:

Until the next thread about the " Adventures of My Sweet Puppy, The Dog Of Peace " I've guess I've had my say.

Sharkey
11-15-2011, 18:28
Sharky, I wasn't trying to attack you or be personal about this so I apologize if it was received that way.

No offense taken. We just disagree. Perspective is everything. I'm not oblivious to news stories involving - actions of Pits. In fact "friends" on FB send them to us all the time. For every "bad" Pit. I could show you 10 "good" ones.

You are correct, my mind is made up because I have seen to many calls involving the Pitt. It's call "Totality of Circumstance" The evidence is overwhelming to convince you.

Well at least you are honest. The "evidence" points to a bunch of bad owners and an extremely limited # of bad dogs. Equating the entire breed as bad is like saying black people commit the highest % of crime so the entire black population is bad. It's a broad brush and a slippery slope........

Berto
11-15-2011, 18:48
Look up the real population numbers while we're bashing the breed. Anywhere from 6-10% of the 70m dogs in our country are 'pit bulls'.....don't believe it? Go to a local city shelter, the average is one third of the dogs.
With all this breed expertise being espoused here, you'd think there would be a metric crapload more fatal pit bull attacks than we actually see, if there's appprox 4-5 million of them in this country.

Are the rest of them all broken?

norm357
11-15-2011, 20:43
This one time, a pitbull followed my smokin' hot wife for seven miles, and then he bit her. He wasn't wearing his hat, nor did he have any probably cause. Fortunately, my wife had declined to give up her CCW on a traffic stop just minutes earlier, so she shot him. She carries a 10mm, so all that was left was some teeth.

Ok, I'm one of those pit bull kind of people, but that right there is funny!:rofl:

StarfoxHowl
11-16-2011, 13:08
Yes it does seem so, I still think it is their nature that causes them to react as they do.

Dogs are pack animals and will behave differently in a pack than they will when alone. With their owner in presence, any dog will act differently, since the dog will follow the lead of the pack alpha, it's owner. (Hopefully the owner is the pack alpha, if not, then the owner is a piss poor owner and a wimp ass fool.)

It's not unusual for a pet who's an aggressive beast on it's own to be a sweetie when it's owner is present.

Jeff82
11-16-2011, 16:03
Maybe the owners and dogs should be registered as dangerous weapons. You can't look at the stats and say anything different. Like moosleeeems they are ticking time bombs. Will yours "go off?" Must your child or anothers pay the price? Buy a license, must buy insurance, suitable and secure living area, required training (both dog and owner), owner legally responsible for dog's actions as if he did it himself, etc.

And no, this is not in conflict with anti-2A gun regulations. I don't see "pit bull" anywhere in the constitution.

MVD
11-16-2011, 19:50
Its kind of a personal policy to try and not get into any kind of semi-serious debate with a dude who refers to a dog as an Islamist terrorist or Satan himself, but I really must say that I am quite amused with this thread.

Sharkey
11-16-2011, 21:31
Its kind of a personal policy to try and not get into any kind of semi-serious debate with a dude who refers to a dog as an Islamist terrorist or Satan himself, but I really must say that I am quite amused with this thread.

Exactly.
I didn't know. I'm a pretty staunch conservative Christian and here I am with a Mooslem (?) dog. While we are at it, why don't we register black people who own guns as dangerous weapons? Maybe we can outlaw cycles too because they are dangerous and carry a high risk. Better make the twinkie illegal too. Look at all the fatties with Diabetes. Govt. save me from myself!

Landric
11-17-2011, 19:27
We had a fairly notorious pit bull bite in my jurisdiction on Monday. The gash on the victims leg was large enough and bleeding enough that EMS had to put a tourniquet on it. This was the fourth person this dog has bitten. The dog is on a chain, and every person it has bitten has been on "its property", so animal control won't take the dog. The problem is that the property in question is a duplex that is a cut through used by a lot of people, many of whom clearly don't know about the presence of said dog until it is too late. There are no warning signs or a fence. One of the previous bite victims was one of my co-workers, who, being a kinder soul than I, didn't kill the dog when it bit him. I've killed several that attacked me, and under the same circumstances I would have shot the dog. It wouldn't have cost me any lost sleep, and I could justify it all day long.

Whenever these discussions come up the pit bull apologists always come along and blame owners and tout all the good virtues of the dogs. All that may well be true, but they can never explain why they couldn't be just as happy with a dog that isn't responsible for the huge majority of human attacks in the US. Dogs are not people, and we don't have to worry about violating their civil rights. I suggest we simply make it illegal to breed pit bull type dogs and punish severely anyone who does breed them. The breed would eventually die out without us having to go around collecting and killing all of them (which I also wouldn't have a problem with, but I understand that isn't PC. The PC crowd is clearly willing to give up a couple dozen people a year, most of them children and the elderly, so that they can own pit bulls).

PROSOUTH
11-17-2011, 19:43
=Landric;18174140] The PC crowd is clearly willing to give up a couple dozen people a year, most of them children and the elderly, so that they can own pit bulls).

THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE..................

I spent all of those fonts above trying to say just that, good posting Landric

Berto
11-17-2011, 20:39
We had a fairly notorious pit bull bite in my jurisdiction on Monday. The gash on the victims leg was large enough and bleeding enough that EMS had to put a tourniquet on it. This was the fourth person this dog has bitten. The dog is on a chain, and every person it has bitten has been on "its property", so animal control won't take the dog. The problem is that the property in question is a duplex that is a cut through used by a lot of people, many of whom clearly don't know about the presence of said dog until it is too late. There are no warning signs or a fence. One of the previous bite victims was one of my co-workers, who, being a kinder soul than I, didn't kill the dog when it bit him. I've killed several that attacked me, and under the same circumstances I would have shot the dog. It wouldn't have cost me any lost sleep, and I could justify it all day long.

Whenever these discussions come up the pit bull apologists always come along and blame owners and tout all the good virtues of the dogs. All that may well be true, but they can never explain why they couldn't be just as happy with a dog that isn't responsible for the huge majority of human attacks in the US. Dogs are not people, and we don't have to worry about violating their civil rights. I suggest we simply make it illegal to breed pit bull type dogs and punish severely anyone who does breed them. The breed would eventually die out without us having to go around collecting and killing all of them (which I also wouldn't have a problem with, but I understand that isn't PC. The PC crowd is clearly willing to give up a couple dozen people a year, most of them children and the elderly, so that they can own pit bulls).

That is part of the importance of understanding numbers.

If there are more of dog type 'A' than dog types 'B through Z', and a disproportinate number of the owners of dog type 'A' are hoodrats and gangstas, it stands to reason dog type 'A' will show up more frequently than the other dog types in bad attacks.

The most conservative number for pit bulls in the US is based on a less than 5% of approx 70million dogs or 3.5m 'pit bulls'. Based on what's being seen at shelters, the number is probably a bit higher than that.

When you do the math, one out of every 250K 'pit bulls' will ever be involved in a fatality....this from a dog that represents 22% of all animal abuse cases.
http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/cruelty_database/statistics/pit_bulls_vs_non_pit_bulls.php

The point : You can hate the breed, but it really isn't the breed's 'fault'.

I understand the number of deaths every year are on average, around 16 people.
It doesn't diminish the fact most cases are children or frail elderly people....it's still terrible and wrong. I know I'd be resolute about hating any dog that attacks and destroys innocent people.
I'd also agree there needs to be a limit on breeding any type of dog with the kind of population percentages shown with 'pit bulls' since they are overflowing the shelters.

However, not only having owned APBT's over the past couple decades and seeing the issue from both sides, understanding the real problem means understanding the numbers.
If I applied the sort of logic to German Shepherds (44% of bite statistics) or the percentages of substance abuse among LEO, I could draw some ugly conclusions....but without understanding the whole story, I'd be an ******* to blanket-judge based on just that piece of information.

MVD
11-17-2011, 23:49
THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE..................

I spent all of those fonts above trying to say just that, good posting Landric

You and Landric also make great arguements for the banning of firearms as well.

I don't know why I feel the need to respond but I really despise disinformation and BS. The Pitbull haters such as yourself are arguing from a position of ignorance. Landric himself stated in his example that the dog in question with the multiple bite track record was chained in a yard. Anyone who has even the slightest idea of dog training will tell you if a dog is chained up in an enclosed area (ie a yard) it is more likely to bite due to a higher incidence of territorial aggression.

It all comes down to socialization, training, and setting boundaries for dogs. Bad owners, a lack of understanding and socialization are responsible for dog attacks.

This is America, you guys are entitled to your views however please stop spreading the utter BS that all pitbulls are powderkegs waiting to go off. It just highlights your lack of understanding on the subject.

Landric
11-18-2011, 07:05
You and Landric also make great arguements for the banning of firearms as well.

I don't know why I feel the need to respond but I really despise disinformation and BS. The Pitbull haters such as yourself are arguing from a position of ignorance. Landric himself stated in his example that the dog in question with the multiple bite track record was chained in a yard. Anyone who has even the slightest idea of dog training will tell you if a dog is chained up in an enclosed area (ie a yard) it is more likely to bite due to a higher incidence of territorial aggression.

It all comes down to socialization, training, and setting boundaries for dogs. Bad owners, a lack of understanding and socialization are responsible for dog attacks.

This is America, you guys are entitled to your views however please stop spreading the utter BS that all pitbulls are powderkegs waiting to go off. It just highlights your lack of understanding on the subject.

Really? That sad, old argument again? First off, you don't have a constitutional (or God given) right to own a pit bull, you do have such rights to own weapons. Firearms happen to be the weapons of choice in this point in history. Second, no matter how many times I ask this, the pro pit bull people never answer it: what is it that a pit bull does that other dogs without a reputation for being dangerous don't? That is, why specifically do you just have to own a pit bull? How would the country be harmed if we simply allowed the breed and it sub-sets to die out? Firearms can be used to do good as well as evil, and they do not act on their own. Pit bulls, on the other hand, can act outside the control of their owners, and they don't do anything that couldn't be done equally well by other breeds of dogs. The pit bulls vs. gun control argument simply doesn't wash.

I really don't care whether or not the problem is the dogs, the owners, or some combination of both (which is likely the problem). Clearly the dogs appeal to a subset of people who tend to be bad owners. Obviously they are not all bad owners, but the pit bull is the "chain dog of choice" in every jurisdiction I have ever worked in. It is also responsible for the huge majority of dog bite/attack reports I have taken. They are simply not worth the risk IMO.

Exactly.
I didn't know. I'm a pretty staunch conservative Christian and here I am with a Mooslem (?) dog. While we are at it, why don't we register black people who own guns as dangerous weapons? Maybe we can outlaw cycles too because they are dangerous and carry a high risk. Better make the twinkie illegal too. Look at all the fatties with Diabetes. Govt. save me from myself!

Or perhaps we could recognize that registering people of a specific race is unconstitutional because they have rights dogs do not, understand that people who ride motorcycles are making choices for themselves and not society at large, as with those who eat Twinkies. Pit bulls are not the same thing. If my neighbor chooses to own a pit bull and it comes in my yard and bites me, he has made a choice for the neighborhood, not himself. The dog can act outside his control, unlike a firearm, a motorcycle, or a Twinkie.

Roering
11-18-2011, 11:02
Third that with a muzzle....

Fourth that if under constant heavy sedation with their teeth filed down and in a cage. :thumbsup:

MVD
11-18-2011, 11:51
Really? That sad, old argument again? First off, you don't have a constitutional (or God given) right to own a pit bull, you do have such rights to own weapons. Firearms happen to be the weapons of choice in this point in history. Second, no matter how many times I ask this, the pro pit bull people never answer it: what is it that a pit bull does that other dogs without a reputation for being dangerous don't? That is, why specifically do you just have to own a pit bull? How would the country be harmed if we simply allowed the breed and it sub-sets to die out? Firearms can be used to do good as well as evil, and they do not act on their own. Pit bulls, on the other hand, can act outside the control of their owners, and they don't do anything that couldn't be done equally well by other breeds of dogs. The pit bulls vs. gun control argument simply doesn't wash.

I really don't care whether or not the problem is the dogs, the owners, or some combination of both (which is likely the problem). Clearly the dogs appeal to a subset of people who tend to be bad owners. Obviously they are not all bad owners, but the pit bull is the "chain dog of choice" in every jurisdiction I have ever worked in. It is also responsible for the huge majority of dog bite/attack reports I have taken. They are simply not worth the risk IMO.

As I said earlier, the same argument can be made for gun control. Whether you agree or not is really of no concern because I'm not here to argue for the banning of guns or dogs because I don't believe in either. I believe in responsible ownership of both.

Now as for your constitutional argument I would offer you the fact that although there is no ammendement that gives you exclusive rights to own dogs or a certain breed of dog, constitutional interpretation has held that Americans have the express constitutional and natural right to property. These rights include a private residence, from which others may be excluded, tools needed for one's livelihood, personal property, which others may be denied, and the use of and arms suitable for defense. I have the right to own dogs as property (companionship) and tools (both for livlihood and defense). These God given and constitutional rights are meant to be enjoyed so long as they do not violate the rights of others (irresponsible ownership). If ones actions or the actions of their property cause someones rights to be violated then that person should be legally held to account.


You are entitled to your opnion based on your experiences and it is obvious that the APBT and its "sub-sets" (Brims and Rollin 60s??) are not for you and your family. In my personal experience they have proven to be loyal, affectionate, and protective of myself, my family and my property. Although I'm not strictly an APBT guy, that is the answer to your earlier asked question.

Jeff82
11-18-2011, 15:08
and protective of myself, my family and my property.

So you're admitting your pit will bite?

Sharkey
11-18-2011, 16:18
So you're admitting your pit will bite?

Uh, I think what you quoted said his dog was "protective" of his family.
The Q is so ludicrous, it sounds like something a defense attorney would ask.

Hell, just about any dog will bite you and we know other breeds have a higher % of biting?

The ignorance in this thread continues to astound me.

Sharkey
11-18-2011, 16:23
Or perhaps we could recognize that registering people of a specific race is unconstitutional because they have rights dogs do not, understand that people who ride motorcycles are making choices for themselves and not society at large, as with those who eat Twinkies. Pit bulls are not the same thing. If my neighbor chooses to own a pit bull and it comes in my yard and bites me, he has made a choice for the neighborhood, not himself. The dog can act outside his control, unlike a firearm, a motorcycle, or a Twinkie.

MVD makes a dang good argument of owning property, ie. a dog as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's right.

So if by riding my cycle in a high risk manner and it ends up in your yard riding over your child, that is not the same? We could come up with a "if-then" argument for guns and twinkies too.

MVD
11-18-2011, 16:39
Uh, I think what you quoted said his dog was "protective" of his family.
The Q is so ludicrous, it sounds like something a defense attorney would ask.

Hell, just about any dog will bite you and we know other breeds have a higher % of biting?

The ignorance in this thread continues to astound me.


Sharkey, I probably would be pilloried by these guys if I posted data that shows the dachsund has one of the highest breed specific inclinations to bite.

Bruce M
11-18-2011, 17:29
While profiling is popularly thought to be a bad thing, often it has some basis in statistical analysis.


...In the 3-year period from 2006 to 2008, pit bull type dogs killed 52 Americans and accounted for 59% of all fatal attacks. .....

MVD
11-18-2011, 18:32
While profiling is popularly thought to be a bad thing, often it has some basis in statistical analysis.

What exactly does "pitbull type" constitute?

Berto
11-18-2011, 18:47
What exactly does "pitbull type" constitute?

I believe it's any one of the twenty or so breeds that look like a pit bull.:supergrin:

Bruce M
11-18-2011, 20:21
What exactly does "pitbull type" constitute?


From the same post...

Wednesday, January 5, 2011




Q: What is a pit bull type dog?
A pit bull type dog is a combination of dog breeds that includes the American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American bulldog1 and any other pure bred or mixed breed dog that is a combination of these dogs. Weight and shape can vary significantly amongst pit bull type dogs, from 35 to 100 plus pounds. (Please see Disguise Breed Name to learn more about the deliberate renaming and mislabeling of pit bulls throughout history.)

.

MVD
11-18-2011, 21:47
From the same post...

An American Bulldog has as much in common with an APBT as a Yorkie, Thanks for trying. I love it when ignorant folks try to act as if they know what they are talking about.

Sharkey
11-18-2011, 22:48
I believe it's any one of the twenty or so breeds that look like a pit bull.:supergrin:

So we should go off how a dog looks now to ban a breed?
I think the Germans used that criteria too. :whistling:

The black rifles look more dangerous than say a bolt action so we should ban those too.

Those crotch rockets not only look fast but are fast so we should probably ban those and just allow people to own cruisers.

If a lot of fat folks think something tastes really good, we should ban that too.

How about we go back to the tried and true method of holding someone or something's behavior accountable.

Some cops are really a holes so therefore all cops are a holes
(wait, the last part is probably true) :supergrin:

jpa
11-19-2011, 06:10
I hear the sheep are pretty... uh... never mind... :supergrin:

Baaa! means no!



My pit bull has never attacked or bitten anyone. You also won't find her running the neighborhood loose either. If you tell her to sit, she wil sit (and wag her tail waiting for a cookie).

bal19
11-19-2011, 08:28
I am the proud owner of not only a powerful pitbull but also a very large powerful rottweiler, both rescues, both extensively trained and obedient to the sound of my and my familys voices. Rescuing these dogs meant I had to get familiar with each dogs individual personality. For instance; due to his upbringing before rescue, my rott is uncomfortable around strange kids so I take precautions to ensure his experience with kids other than my own is limited and chaperoned. My pit gets a little squirrly around some other dogs...so guess what....she doesn't go to off leash parks. Both dogs are lovable, playful, and loyal and it breaks my heart to see an entire breed experience discrimination because of inexperienced(at best) or irresponsible owners. I will end this post by spouting an age old cliche....punish the deed, not the breed.

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bal19
11-19-2011, 08:31
Hmmmm....the majority of serial killers are caucasion white males, by your logic maybe we should sterilize caucasions to be safe.

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Bruce M
11-19-2011, 09:06
An American Bulldog has as much in common with an APBT as a Yorkie, Thanks for trying. I love it when ignorant folks try to act as if they know what they are talking about.


I guess I am ignorant but I thought that the American Pit Bull Terrier is essentially the same as the Staffordshire Terrier and that they came from breeding bull dogs and terriers. I thought that they shared some common lineage and eventually became two seperate breeds. But I might not be the only one that considers them related. http://bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html

http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php




But if by chance I am ignorant, do you care do provide some statistics suggesting that either of the breeds with nothing in common are not represented in far higher percentages of human deaths and maimings than their percentages of breeds to total dogs? If you have something that resembles actual research as opposed to the ability to attempt to insult someone by calling them ignorant, I would be happy to read it.

Sharkey
11-19-2011, 09:26
But if by chance I am ignorant, do you care do provide some statistics suggesting that either of the breeds with nothing in common are not represented in far higher percentages of human deaths and maimings than their percentages of breeds to total dogs? If you have something that resembles actual research as opposed to the ability to attempt to insult someone by calling them ignorant, I would be happy to read it.

The American Pit Bull Terrier and the Stratfordshire Terrier are indeed related.
Without looking at stats, I actually agree with you on the above statement.

That said, how does that relate to banning or even sterilizing a breed? If you are really concerned about people dying, why don't we regulate the automobile industry even more or toughen regulations on things that increase the chance for a heart attack?

The .22 caliber bullet probably amounts to most people dying after being shot with it (or use to), maybe we should just ban a certain caliber for the public good too?

smokeross
11-19-2011, 10:01
I am the proud owner of not only a powerful pitbull but also a very large powerful rottweiler, both rescues, both extensively trained and obedient to the sound of my and my familys voices. Rescuing these dogs meant I had to get familiar with each dogs individual personality. For instance; due to his upbringing before rescue, my rott is uncomfortable around strange kids so I take precautions to ensure his experience with kids other than my own is limited and chaperoned. My pit gets a little squirrly around some other dogs...so guess what....she doesn't go to off leash parks. Both dogs are lovable, playful, and loyal and it breaks my heart to see an entire breed experience discrimination because of inexperienced(at best) or irresponsible owners. I will end this post by spouting an age old cliche....punish the deed, not the breed.

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Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engineSounds like both of your dogs are quite capable of the 'deed' you mentioned in your post. Your constant supervision is the only thing that stops them. If they got loose they could very likely make the news, eh?

razdog76
11-19-2011, 10:18
I am an advocate of proper dog training, and currently own a GSD.

Taking in to consideration the "property" (gun) vs dog, and the gun takes no action by itself vs dog ability to make decision arguments...

The easy way to deal with it would be to hold owners responsible for serious physical injury/death in the same way they would be if they shot someone.

bal19
11-19-2011, 10:26
Sounds like both of your dogs are quite capable of the 'deed' you mentioned in your post. Your constant supervision is the only thing that stops them. If they got loose they could very likely make the news, eh?

True, they are capable of the deed...just the same as any large breed dog. Hence the training. Just because the dogs are capable of doing damage, is not sufficient reason to condemn them. IMHO. Neither dog has ever nipped, I just have enough experience with dogs recognize the signs and take the necessary steps to ensure that they know certain behavior will NOT be tolerated.
That being said these dogs are my first line of defense in such a case as a home invasion (I've had one), these breeds in particular, are protective and capable. Their innate desire to please their master is their strength as well as their weakness. These dogs will do anything we ask of them without regard for their personal safety or well-being...this is where human responsibility comes into play. I agree though, certain breeds of dog in the wrong hands can become a danger....again human responsibility. Just like your favorite pistol or rifle, I am sure you have been properly trained and licensed, I can understand an argument that supported training and licensing for a dog such as these, but to condemn the entire breed is ludicrous....with all due respect.

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Bruce M
11-19-2011, 12:13
...That said, how does that relate to banning or even sterilizing a breed? If you are really concerned about people dying, why don't we regulate the automobile industry even more or toughen regulations on things that increase the chance for a heart attack?

...

I don't believe that I said anything about banning or sterilizing. I have merely copied some research information from another post. I would rather like to see some other information refuting the numbers. My gut instinct is that statistically the vast majority of pit bulls or pit bull types or Stafforsdshires or however we define them are not an issue. Sort of like Gen4s. On the other hand I do wonder if there is statistical evidence that substantially differentiates these dogs from others regarding human deaths and human maulings.

MVD
11-19-2011, 13:07
I guess I am ignorant but I thought that the American Pit Bull Terrier is essentially the same as the Staffordshire Terrier and that they came from breeding bull dogs and terriers. I thought that they shared some common lineage and eventually became two seperate breeds. But I might not be the only one that considers them related. http://bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html

http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php




But if by chance I am ignorant, do you care do provide some statistics suggesting that either of the breeds with nothing in common are not represented in far higher percentages of human deaths and maimings than their percentages of breeds to total dogs? If you have something that resembles actual research as opposed to the ability to attempt to insult someone by calling them ignorant, I would be happy to read it.

I apologize if you were offended. The problem is that the term pit bull type is so far reaching and when implemented in breed specific legislation results in overkill. There are some cities in the US that have enacted BSL which basically states that even if your dog looks similar to a pitbull we can ban it(ex.Lakewood OH).

There are bascally four races of dogs in the world "pitbull types" fall into the Molossoid category, collectively known as molossers. These dogs descended from the ancient Greek Molossos. This list literally encompasses over a hundred breeds to include pugs and golden retrievers. Now could you imagine what that would mean to folks if BSL language changed from pitbull type to molosser type?

Sharkey
11-19-2011, 18:23
I don't believe that I said anything about banning or sterilizing. I have merely copied some research information from another post. I would rather like to see some other information refuting the numbers. My gut instinct is that statistically the vast majority of pit bulls or pit bull types or Stafforsdshires or however we define them are not an issue. Sort of like Gen4s. On the other hand I do wonder if there is statistical evidence that substantially differentiates these dogs from others regarding human deaths and human maulings.


I would go back to what was mentioned earlier - bad owners. How many people own a pit because of the supposed status symbol or viciousness.
Throw in the fact that dog fighting is still alive and well and these dogs do have a warrior type mindset and I see a couple things already that would affect the stats.

Lots of pits are dog aggressive but so are a lot of other breeds. The pits just have the tools and tenacity to back it up. A pit is not for the run of the mill dog owner but then neither are some other breeds either.

Berto
11-20-2011, 10:05
I would go back to what was mentioned earlier - bad owners. How many people own a pit because of the supposed status symbol or viciousness.
Throw in the fact that dog fighting is still alive and well and these dogs do have a warrior type mindset and I see a couple things already that would affect the stats.

Lots of pits are dog aggressive but so are a lot of other breeds. The pits just have the tools and tenacity to back it up. A pit is not for the run of the mill dog owner but then neither are some other breeds either.

You are trying to explain and educate people who wish to believe there's a special 'kill gene' when concerning pit bulls.....unfortunately facts are meaningless to them because it's not emotionally gratifying.

It's doesn't matter if APBT outscore the average temprament of all dogs.
It doesn't matter if APBT/ 'pits' account for 22% of all animal abuse cases.
It doesn't matter if the dog is far more common than other breeds.
It doesn't matter that they are a status symbol of hoodrats.(low life owners)
It doesn't matter that the most well known/respected trainers defend 'pit bulls', and use the dogs to train other dogs.
It doesn't matter that the dogs are used in search and rescue, or drug detection.
It doesn't matter that the breed(s) have 150+ years of being a popular American house dog, and the literal millions of owners today will never have an 'incident' of any sort, because they are responsible owners.

It's a shame to me, a person raised by civil servants in LE and FF and who respects highly the performance and importance of the job they do.....that I have to wonder at times if some fool is going to draw down on me at a traffic stop because he/she is convinced my passenger is the AntiChrist based on the friggin breed and nothing else.
I know the vast majority of LE are well beyond that, but damn.....

Landric
11-20-2011, 13:04
As I said earlier, the same argument can be made for gun control. Whether you agree or not is really of no concern because I'm not here to argue for the banning of guns or dogs because I don't believe in either. I believe in responsible ownership of both.

Now as for your constitutional argument I would offer you the fact that although there is no ammendement that gives you exclusive rights to own dogs or a certain breed of dog, constitutional interpretation has held that Americans have the express constitutional and natural right to property. These rights include a private residence, from which others may be excluded, tools needed for one's livelihood, personal property, which others may be denied, and the use of and arms suitable for defense. I have the right to own dogs as property (companionship) and tools (both for livlihood and defense). These God given and constitutional rights are meant to be enjoyed so long as they do not violate the rights of others (irresponsible ownership). If ones actions or the actions of their property cause someones rights to be violated then that person should be legally held to account.

Agreed, you have property rights. Like all rights, property rights are not absolutes. The courts have ruled on multiple occasions that rights may be reasonably restricted for the protection of society as a whole. A law prohibiting pit bull type dogs is not likely to be seen as an unreasonable restriction on your property rights by the courts. You would be perfectly free to own other breeds, and other breeds can perform the same tasks as a pit bull.


You are entitled to your opnion based on your experiences and it is obvious that the APBT and its "sub-sets" (Brims and Rollin 60s??) are not for you and your family. In my personal experience they have proven to be loyal, affectionate, and protective of myself, my family and my property. Although I'm not strictly an APBT guy, that is the answer to your earlier asked question.

It isn't really an answer to my question though. All sorts of breeds of dogs (and various mutts) are loyal, affectionate, and protective. Why specifically pit bulls? I'm not suggesting that you are a bad owner, that isn't really the point. The dogs are capable of acting outside their owner's control and they have a bad (and well deserved in my experience) reputation for biting that results in serious injury or death. Are they alone? Absolutely not.

MVD makes a dang good argument of owning property, ie. a dog as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's right.

So if by riding my cycle in a high risk manner and it ends up in your yard riding over your child, that is not the same? We could come up with a "if-then" argument for guns and twinkies too.

He makes a fine argument if we were talking about completely restricting dog ownership or if property rights were absolute. Neither is the case. Has a court ever held that a law prohibiting pit bull type dogs was unconstitutional? If so, I have never heard of the case.

As for your example, no, it is not the same. You may well be a crazy motorcycle rider, but the motorcycle still didn't act on its own. We have a mechanism to punish you for your actions. As for dogs, they can and do act outside anyone's control, and an owner cannot always be identified to hold responsible. In any event the owner may not even be responsible for the dog even if he can be identified. Who to hold accountable is a lot more clear cut when the "at fault party" is a person, as in your example.

Hmmmm....the majority of serial killers are caucasion white males, by your logic maybe we should sterilize caucasions to be safe.

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Lets see, seeking out white males to sterilize because they might be serial killers: Unconstitutional. Spaying and neutering dogs, no constitutional issues. Hum, what could the difference be.

The problem is that a subset of the population seems to think that dogs are equal to humans. They are not.

You are trying to explain and educate people who wish to believe there's a special 'kill gene' when concerning pit bulls.....unfortunately facts are meaningless to them because it's not emotionally gratifying.

It's doesn't matter if APBT outscore the average temprament of all dogs.
It doesn't matter if APBT/ 'pits' account for 22% of all animal abuse cases.
It doesn't matter if the dog is far more common than other breeds.
It doesn't matter that they are a status symbol of hoodrats.(low life owners)
It doesn't matter that the most well known/respected trainers defend 'pit bulls', and use the dogs to train other dogs.
It doesn't matter that the dogs are used in search and rescue, or drug detection.
It doesn't matter that the breed(s) have 150+ years of being a popular American house dog, and the literal millions of owners today will never have an 'incident' of any sort, because they are responsible owners.

It's a shame to me, a person raised by civil servants in LE and FF and who respects highly the performance and importance of the job they do.....that I have to wonder at times if some fool is going to draw down on me at a traffic stop because he/she is convinced my passenger is the AntiChrist based on the friggin breed and nothing else.
I know the vast majority of LE are well beyond that, but damn.....

It really is much easier to claim that those of us who don't agree with you are overcome by emotions isn't it? It is simple for me, pit bull type dogs have a bad rep, account for a significant number of dog attacks with serious injuries or deaths each year, and don't provide any service that couldn't be provided just as well by other breeds of dogs with less negative reputations. When it comes to risk vs. reward I just don't see any advantage to allowing the breed to continue. No one is suggesting killing every dog in existence, just allowing the breed to die out. For the sake of full disclosure, I wouldn't have a problem with killing all of them, but I accept that is an extreme step that will never actually happen.

Sharkey, I probably would be pilloried by these guys if I posted data that shows the dachsund has one of the highest breed specific inclinations to bite.

Nope, you would just be missing the point. What would be on point is how many dachshund bites result in serious injury or death as compared to pit bull bites? A ten pound dog is unlikely to be a serious threat no matter how aggressive it is.

MVD
11-20-2011, 17:18
Agreed, you have property rights. Like all rights, property rights are not absolutes. The courts have ruled on multiple occasions that rights may be reasonably restricted for the protection of society as a whole. A law prohibiting pit bull type dogs is not likely to be seen as an unreasonable restriction on your property rights by the courts. You would be perfectly free to own other breeds, and other breeds can perform the same tasks as a pit bull.

True, however when said property poses no danger to society how can it be restricted? If my dog has never acted aggressively to anything human or amimal and has never bitten the same. How on earth can it be deemed dangerous simply due to its breed?


It isn't really an answer to my question though. All sorts of breeds of dogs (and various mutts) are loyal, affectionate, and protective. Why specifically pit bulls? I'm not suggesting that you are a bad owner, that isn't really the point. The dogs are capable of acting outside their owner's control and they have a bad (and well deserved in my experience) reputation for biting that results in serious injury or death. Are they alone? Absolutely not.

There are all sorts of car makes and models why one over the other? I have had nothing but good experiences with the APBT, while I've had others it is simply a preference. Don't I have the right to make that choice if it does not affect others?


The problem is that a subset of the population seems to think that dogs are equal to humans. They are not.

True, they are property.


Nope, you would just be missing the point. What would be on point is how many dachshund bites result in serious injury or death as compared to pit bull bites? A ten pound dog is unlikely to be a serious threat no matter how aggressive it is.

Talk about missing the point Landric. One of the more well known GSD trainers in the country posted a video of 8 week old GSD puppies exhibiting dominance over a bone. The tenacity exhibited by these young pups was unbelivable. None of these dogs weighed over 10 lbs. A dog of any size and breed is capable of inflicting serious injury or death this includes breeds like chiuauas(sp). now to be realistic does a 10 lbs dog pose a threat to a 200 lbs man in his 30s such as myself? we'll just say probably not. when you change the scenario and subtitute an adult male for a toddler the story could end in catastrophy.

Berto
11-20-2011, 22:18
It really is much easier to claim that those of us who don't agree with you are overcome by emotions isn't it? It is simple for me, pit bull type dogs have a bad rep, account for a significant number of dog attacks with serious injuries or deaths each year, and don't provide any service that couldn't be provided just as well by other breeds of dogs with less negative reputations. When it comes to risk vs. reward I just don't see any advantage to allowing the breed to continue. No one is suggesting killing every dog in existence, just allowing the breed to die out. For the sake of full disclosure, I wouldn't have a problem with killing all of them, but I accept that is an extreme step that will never actually happen.



I have disproven your point, which why I'm led to believe you are running on emotion vs common sense.
History has proven also, when you take one breed, and substitute another -for the sake of argument med-large breed- exposed to the same circumstances, you have a new "problem" dog. This has been seen with Doberman, GSD and Rottweiler dogs during surges in their popularity.
Anytime you expose a breed of a strong dog to the abuse, population and status among thug type owners, you will see them figure highest in dog attacks.
Exterminate 'pit bulls', then it will be Mastiffs/Presas, or Boerbells, or Rhodesians...etc.
Then we exterminate them?
I recognize that folks in your line of work deal with the worst of people in worst of situations. I won't pretend my word will change what you see on the job, and how you choose to perceive and deal with it.
No one likes to be told the 'villan' is really the 'victim', esp when kids or frail older folks get attacked by out of control dogs. I'd just say go visit a big city dog shelter, ask how many pit bulls are destroyed there every year, what percentage they represent among all the dogs taken in....and why?
It's caused by people, not the breed, and people aren't likely going to change when another breed becomes the new tough guy status symbol.

Sharkey
11-20-2011, 22:47
All sorts of breeds of dogs (and various mutts) are loyal, affectionate, and protective. Why specifically pit bulls? I'm not suggesting that you are a bad owner, that isn't really the point. The dogs are capable of acting outside their owner's control and they have a bad (and well deserved in my experience) reputation for biting that results in serious injury or death. Are they alone? Absolutely not.

Because pit bulls have a high % of abuse compared to other breeds and someone needs to rescue them since so many people have the same belief as you that isn't true. If they aren't alone as you state, why don't you push for the sterilization of all the breeds you think could cause death? My experience is the opposite of yours and neither of my dogs have bitten anyone even when adults or kids did something to them that should have resulted in them biting.


He makes a fine argument if we were talking about completely restricting dog ownership or if property rights were absolute. Neither is the case. Has a court ever held that a law prohibiting pit bull type dogs was unconstitutional? If so, I have never heard of the case.

Yeah the court has never made a bad ruling either?

As for your example, no, it is not the same. You may well be a crazy motorcycle rider, but the motorcycle still didn't act on its own. We have a mechanism to punish you for your actions. As for dogs, they can and do act outside anyone's control, and an owner cannot always be identified to hold responsible. In any event the owner may not even be responsible for the dog even if he can be identified. Who to hold accountable is a lot more clear cut when the "at fault party" is a person, as in your example.

Dunno where you live but the owners here in Texas are indeed held liable for their dogs actions. Haven't you heard, you can sue anyone for anything.



Lets see, seeking out white males to sterilize because they might be serial killers: Unconstitutional. Spaying and neutering dogs, no constitutional issues. Hum, what could the difference be.

Well let's go back to your sentence earlier. The court rules what was unconstitutional or not. The Germans during WWII determined who was lawfully able to be exterminated so according to your earlier sentence, the court ruled killing certain folks as legal so it must be ok right? Yeah let us go off of what a govt. decides as right because hey, they never make mistakes.

The problem is that a subset of the population seems to think that dogs are equal to humans. They are not.

Well duh, thanks for pointing out pits aren't human. I got it straight now.
Have you ever heard of an analogy or citing an example? To think, I was gonna allow my pit to exercise her constitutional right to open carry.



It really is much easier to claim that those of us who don't agree with you are overcome by emotions isn't it? It is simple for me, pit bull type dogs have a bad rep, account for a significant number of dog attacks with serious injuries or deaths each year, and don't provide any service that couldn't be provided just as well by other breeds of dogs with less negative reputations. When it comes to risk vs. reward I just don't see any advantage to allowing the breed to continue. No one is suggesting killing every dog in existence, just allowing the breed to die out. For the sake of full disclosure, I wouldn't have a problem with killing all of them, but I accept that is an extreme step that will never actually happen.

So no one or nothing that has a bad reputation has ever been villified? Of course you don't see the risk vs reward, you already have a biased against the breed. Actually some are advocating exterminating the breed and you honestly say you don't have an issue with it. That sounds a bit emotional and irrational considering the majority of the breed isn't guilty of that behavior.


Nope, you would just be missing the point. What would be on point is how many dachshund bites result in serious injury or death as compared to pit bull bites? A ten pound dog is unlikely to be a serious threat no matter how aggressive it is.

You're right, what is the point. You seem to miss it.

WarCry
11-21-2011, 00:42
What exactly does "pitbull type" constitute?

http://www.redgallows.com/dogs.jpg

Landric
11-21-2011, 15:12
OK, I'm sorry for having a negative opinion of the dog breed of peace. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm done with this discussion.

glockluvr64
11-23-2011, 12:40
Poor dog was just getting his life turned around :crying:

http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/swat-team-looking-for-home-invasion-suspect-shoots-pit-bull-1.246880

ronduke
01-04-2012, 00:20
Police officers found the dogs a short distance away from the site of the attack and fatally shot the animals as they attempted to attack them.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/02/chicago-jogger-critically-injured-by-pit-bulls/?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz1iT2JvfZc

StarfoxHowl
01-04-2012, 10:36
Police officers found the dogs a short distance away from the site of the attack and fatally shot the animals as they attempted to attack them.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/02/chicago-jogger-critically-injured-by-pit-bulls/?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz1iT2JvfZc

Two big glaring problems with this situation, where was the owner and the dogs were not neutered.

blk69stang
01-04-2012, 11:04
Pit Bulls as a breed are not more prone to attacking people, it's just that they have the powerful muscles to make a bite more damaging than other breeds, as well as the fact that they are often trained as "attack dogs" by their owners.

My dog is half pit bull, and he is the most chicken-poop dog you've ever seen. He won't hardly eat his food because his dog tags clink on the dish and scare him. But if you play tug-of-war with him, his extremely powerful neck, chest, and jaw muscles give him a definite advantage.

Pits are simply the NFA firearm of the dog world. Not inherently evil, just powerful and dangerous if misused.

wprebeck
01-04-2012, 11:48
We had a ten year old get mauled a few days ago in my city (an hour from Dukeboy). Guess what breed was involved?

Sharkey
01-04-2012, 12:39
We had a ten year old get mauled a few days ago in my city (an hour from Dukeboy). Guess what breed was involved?

Cocker Spaniel? That is the only dog that has bit me.
Wanna see something+ about Pits and how they get dumped on by everyone? Watch Pit Bull and Parolees.

blk69stang
01-04-2012, 12:51
Certain, shall we say, "Demographics" tend to like pit-bulls because of the image; they think a "tough looking" dog makes them look tough. They also recognize the athletic ability of the breed, and thus use it by training the dogs to be attack dogs for either defense or for dog-fighting. They also tend to "bastardize" the breed by encouraging only the breeding of the most agressive, and allowing the lovable non-agressive dogs to be killed. This same "demographic" has some stereotypes associated with it that say they're into the dog-fighting scene. This same "demographic" also has an associated stereotype for gang-violence, welfare abuse, robbing liquor stores, making rap videos, drinking "fodees", and using Glocks.

Now, just because Glocks are misused by some miscreants does not make all Glocks bad. It just shows that miscreants recognize its inherent qualities and twist them for their own evil ends.

It's like killer bees. Not all bees are bad (in fact they are actually beneficial). But there ARE some africanized bees that are vicious. Problem is, they all look the same. And just like the news media with guns, if it looks scary, then they ALL must be EVIL!!!

Same deal with pitbulls.

Jeff82
01-04-2012, 13:15
Certain, shall we say, "Demographics" tend to like pit-bulls because of the image; they think a "tough looking" dog makes them look tough. They also recognize the athletic ability of the breed, and thus use it by training the dogs to be attack dogs for either defense or for dog-fighting. They also tend to "bastardize" the breed by encouraging only the breeding of the most agressive, and allowing the lovable non-agressive dogs to be killed. This same "demographic" has some stereotypes associated with it that say they're into the dog-fighting scene. This same "demographic" also has an associated stereotype for gang-violence, welfare abuse, robbing liquor stores, making rap videos, drinking "fodees", and using Glocks.

Now, just because Glocks are misused by some miscreants does not make all Glocks bad. It just shows that miscreants recognize its inherent qualities and twist them for their own evil ends.

It's like killer bees. Not all bees are bad (in fact they are actually beneficial). But there ARE some africanized bees that are vicious. Problem is, they all look the same. And just like the news media with guns, if it looks scary, then they ALL must be EVIL!!!

Same deal with pitbulls.


Hmmm. The only guy I personally knew that fought dogs was a white Army e-5. Is that who you're talking about?

Gombey
01-04-2012, 15:05
This one time, a pitbull followed my smokin' hot wife for seven miles. Rumor has it that her 10MM was a BUG, and that her primary was a nice Lorcin, which she kept unloaded in case some nutcase dog went for her primary.

NO FAIR!!!! Let me in on the joke..please

ronduke
01-10-2012, 00:30
The owner of a pit bull was ticketed Sunday after her dog bit a Chicago Police dog multiple times Friday afternoon in the South Loop, police said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-police-dog-bitten-by-pit-bull-owner-ticketed-20120109,0,3001393.story

Sharkey
01-10-2012, 08:37
The owner of a pit bull was ticketed Sunday after her dog bit a Chicago Police dog multiple times Friday afternoon in the South Loop, police said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-police-dog-bitten-by-pit-bull-owner-ticketed-20120109,0,3001393.story

My buddy's K9 dog destroyed a violator's headrest in his SUV. The dept. had to pay for that. He was a bad dog. :supergrin:

Ghost Tracker
01-10-2012, 08:48
I hear the sheep are pretty... uh... never mind... I know sheep have pretty good hearing, that's why shepherds wear robes. :whistling:

As for dangerous dogs in the Bluegrass? Our Cocker Spaniels...eat BEARS!

alexanderg23
01-10-2012, 09:11
I like my PIT more than most people, shoot it and I'll return the favor....

wprebeck
01-10-2012, 09:40
I like my PIT more than most people, shoot it and I'll return the favor....

Wow. You're saying you'd kill someone if your dog escaped your yard, and mauled a person?

Assclowns everywhere.

Kadetklapp
01-10-2012, 10:35
I like my PIT more than most people, shoot it and I'll return the favor....

We'll see who's faster....

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BleedNOrange
01-10-2012, 11:26
We'll see who's faster....

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Yea but can your dad beat up his dad?.......

Jeff82
01-10-2012, 14:17
I like my PIT more than most people, shoot it and I'll return the favor....

No you won't.

tcruse
01-10-2012, 15:40
Everyone knows that Chihuahuas bite more people than Pit Bulls do. They're the real threat to our society.

I think that hearing loss is probably more likely. Especially if they happen to laying on your pillow.

metal
01-10-2012, 18:59
I thought this thread was about Muslims. /fail :tbo:

ronduke
04-01-2012, 11:58
A 4-year-old Victoria boy who disappeared Sunday night has been found dead in Victoria, apparently mauled to death by a bit bull kept chained in a neighbor’s yard.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46858158/ns/local_news-houston_tx/t/search-missing--year-old-ends/


Series of pit pull attacks reported in Victoria
http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2012/mar/26/dw_pitbull_attacks_032712_171605/?news

Misty02
04-01-2012, 12:47
A 4-year-old Victoria boy who disappeared Sunday night has been found dead in Victoria, apparently mauled to death by a bit bull kept chained in a neighbor’s yard.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46858158/ns/local_news-houston_tx/t/search-missing--year-old-ends/


Series of pit pull attacks reported in Victoria
http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2012/mar/26/dw_pitbull_attacks_032712_171605/?news

That first story is extremely disturbing and not because of the dogs, they were chained in their back-yard. How can anyone lift an eye, even for a second, from a 4 year old while you are outside the home? Even inside a child-proof home things can happen in the blink of an eye.

.

Nordeste
04-01-2012, 13:02
Pit bull who are raised in loving homes do not turn on people period!

Second that. I'll also add properly trained.

^ That.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN !

They have been highly trained to no longer respond to your provocations and denouncing the Dog of Peace.

I had a trainer tell me years ago that anyone could teach a K-9 to bite, but it took someone good to teach him to not bite and to take the command of letting go when he did................

I really don't think the American Pit Bull Terror has a training problem. I just think it is a problem with their nature, and that isn't going to go away with any amount of training.
:faint:

It just requires training, but it can be perfectly done. Moreover, Pit-bulls and their "cousin" breeds (American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier or Bull Terrier) are, in my experience, more easily trainable than other breeds. They have a strong prey drive, that's true, but you can properly orient that drive through play.

It is quite important, much more than in any other breed, that the owner has full control over his dog. The owner/handler must be in command, and has to be recognized as his leader by the dog. Otherwise, the dog will be the one trying to be in command, and this is when problems start.

I had two American Staffordshire Terriers during 14 years of my life. The first one, an impressive black male weighing around 60 lbs, had to be put to sleep due to a spine malformation that affected his motion and caused him to be in pain. Then I got the second, a female (smaller, 40 lbs) that was such a joy of a dog. Both were properly trained. I attended canine training classes and got a dog that would wait for you outside shops sitting on the street. She would bite on command during training, release on command, and even "arrest" a BG, preventing him from fleeing if so told. My older nephew learned to walk leaning on her back. She just walked slowly, helping the baby on his first steps, aware that if she moved quickly the baby would fall down. No one will convince me that these dogs are "bad", or that some breeds are "bad". Rottweilers attack people too. German Shepherds attack more kids than any other breed (at least where I live), and they're not "bad" dogs. It all comes with the environment they live in.

Bear in mind, though, that these breeds were meant to fight. In the old days in England, a miner in the Black Country would make more out of one of his dogs winning a fight, than in a month inside a coal mine. The dogs lived with the family, so they had to breed only with those individuals that demonstrated bravery, and a good attitude towards human beings. This was very important then, and perhaps it's not being done in the present days by some irresponsible breeders. This friendliness towards the human being was also important in the fight pit. At some point the dogs had to be separated, and owners didn't want to lose a couple of fingers in the process.

Maybe the owners and dogs should be registered as dangerous weapons. You can't look at the stats and say anything different. Like moosleeeems they are ticking time bombs. Will yours "go off?" Must your child or anothers pay the price? Buy a license, must buy insurance, suitable and secure living area, required training (both dog and owner), owner legally responsible for dog's actions as if he did it himself, etc.

And no, this is not in conflict with anti-2A gun regulations. I don't see "pit bull" anywhere in the constitution.

Sort of, but not as "dangerous weapons" ;). We have breed specific legislation here. I had to undergo a background check and get insurance in order to obtain some kind of "license" that would enable me to own my two American Staffordshire Terriers. There were also legal requirements. You had to outwalk them always on a leash, and they had to wear a muzzle. They could only run free inside a properly fenced private property.

Those measure will discourage most of the badasses that will think it's cool to have a badass dog to go along with them, and use it for whatever bad thing they feel like. Sadly, it also puts restraints on responsible owners. I felt particularly sad about the muzzle thing and not being able to release my dog to run free anywhere in public spaces, so when she passed away I decided that no more Bull-type terriers. Now I own a West Highland White Terrier and a Yorkshire Terrier, and I can tell you that they are much more stubborn and have destroyed much more things inside the house, than the other two together.

These breeds have paid a blood tribute to entertain (in unacceptable and bloody fights) and help mankind in the past. They deserve some respect. They can make for outstanding family dogs and actually, they can show a heartbreaking level of affection and loyalty for their family. Check this out:

pitbull saves family from fire - Buscar con Google


That's what shows up if you type "pitbull saves family" on Google, but this one is particularly impressive:

http://dogsinthenews.com/stories/070301a.php


Get to know them. Give'em a chance before bashing them. You could be greatly surprised. And they belong to your national heritage. Look after them, because it's worth it.

WarCry
04-01-2012, 13:05
A 4-year-old Victoria boy who disappeared Sunday night has been found dead in Victoria, apparently mauled to death by a bit bull kept chained in a neighbor’s yard.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46858158/ns/local_news-houston_tx/t/search-missing--year-old-ends/

Seriously? You're going to try and pin this on the dogs, who were kept PROPERLY in their own yard, when the article says this:

CPS told Local 2 they twice visited the family's home, once for accusations of abuse and another for lack of supervision. However, CPS said they didn't find anything during either investigation.

Also, they said the boy was found over a half mile away from home. Did the Pits unchain themselves, go prowling for a victim, drag him back and rechain themselves?

To be perfectly honest, I think it was simple "headline news" stuff to even report the breed of the dog. The problem here has NOTHING to do with the dogs, and to imply otherwise is entirely intellectually dishonest.

steveksux
04-01-2012, 14:41
Everyone knows that Chihuahuas bite more people than Pit Bulls do. They're the real threat to our society.And they're more dangerous bites. You don't notice the dogs hanging off you until the wound gets infected! :rofl:

Randy

dano1427
04-01-2012, 15:54
Pit bull who are raised in loving homes do not turn on people period!

Darla Napora (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-08-12/news/29898177_1_pit-bull-pregnant-woman-second-dog) was killed by her pit, in a loving home, properly raised. She was a member of BADRAP (http://www.badrap.org/), and she and her husband were staunch advocates of the "breed." Neighbors and friends stated the dogs were always quiet and friendly. Raised in a pro-pit, loving home.

Berto
04-01-2012, 16:09
Crazy thing how dogs of nearly all breeds have produced fatalities in their homes, but the only ones meritous of such controversy are pit bulls. These things have happened with labs, GSDs, even Pomerains for crap's sake.
All this hand wringing only increases the demand.

Nordeste
04-01-2012, 16:17
Darla Napora (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-08-12/news/29898177_1_pit-bull-pregnant-woman-second-dog) was killed by her pit, in a loving home, properly raised. She was a member of BADRAP (http://www.badrap.org/), and she and her husband were staunch advocates of the "breed." Neighbors and friends stated the dogs were always quiet and friendly. Raised in a pro-pit, loving home.

It's quite unfair to relate events like that to an specific breed, in the sense that the attack happened because the dog was a pitbull. There are cases of attacks by Rottweilers, German Shepherds, mastiffs and mixed race dogs. I would love to see some statistics on dog attacks by breed in the US, because over here, even when pitbulls became popular, they never led it. One of my best friends was attacked by a Collie when she was a child, nearly lost an eye.

Any big, strong dog with powerful jaws can be dangerous to some extent.

WarCry
04-01-2012, 16:50
It's quite unfair to relate events like that to an specific breed, in the sense that the attack happened because the dog was a pitbull. There are cases of attacks by Rottweilers, German Shepherds, mastiffs and mixed race dogs. I would love to see some statistics on dog attacks by breed in the US, because over here, even when pitbulls became popular, they never led it. One of my best friends was attacked by a Collie when she was a child, nearly lost an eye.

Any big, strong dog with powerful jaws can be dangerous to some extent.

You're new here, so I'll give you a heads up - make all the arguments you want, some people here are never going to believe that pit bulls are anything OTHER than the spawn of Satan, and the only good pit is a dead pit.

They refuse to acknowledge the statistics you talk about, will never admit that dogs behave as dogs are raised/trained, and are dead certain that every single pit bull anywhere should be destroyed where they stand before causing the cataclysmic destruction of the entire human race.

Feel free to muck about in the argument. Lord knows there are a few rational voices around here, but they are drowned out nearly every single time. Just wanted to give you a fair warning.

Nordeste
04-01-2012, 19:05
You're new here, so I'll give you a heads up - make all the arguments you want, some people here are never going to believe that pit bulls are anything OTHER than the spawn of Satan, and the only good pit is a dead pit.

They refuse to acknowledge the statistics you talk about, will never admit that dogs behave as dogs are raised/trained, and are dead certain that every single pit bull anywhere should be destroyed where they stand before causing the cataclysmic destruction of the entire human race.

Feel free to muck about in the argument. Lord knows there are a few rational voices around here, but they are drowned out nearly every single time. Just wanted to give you a fair warning.

Wow... thanks, WarCry. I know people can be quite close-minded sometimes, but didn't think it was gonna be that bad :upeyes:. Too often, we fear what we don't know or is unfamiliar to us. I was just trying to bring some light on these dogs, based a lot on my own experience. Certainly I didn't own any Pit-bulls, but the Am. Staffordshire Terrier is a close relative of it, if not basically the same dog.

It's quite sad, though. The name of the breed is AMERICAN Pit-Bull Terrier. Hey, it's yours. It should be to the US what the Bulldog is to the UK or what our fighting bulls are to us. They have even served your country at war, bravely and loyally.

dano1427
04-02-2012, 17:51
It's quite unfair to relate events like that to an specific breed, in the sense that the attack happened because the dog was a pitbull. There are cases of attacks by Rottweilers, German Shepherds, mastiffs and mixed race dogs. I would love to see some statistics on dog attacks by breed in the US, because over here, even when pitbulls became popular, they never led it. One of my best friends was attacked by a Collie when she was a child, nearly lost an eye.

Any big, strong dog with powerful jaws can be dangerous to some extent.

But, according to the pro-pit side of the argument, a pit raised properly would "never" attack anyone. In the Napora incident, there was a vocal pro-pit contingent who spread a story that Napora fell off a ladder, and the suspect dog was protecting her fallen body. The vocal pro-pit crowd was unable to explain the bite wounds, though.

The ratio of pits vs. pit bites is never explained by the pro-pit people; unless there are just that many pro-pit people who are bad dog owners.

Berto
04-02-2012, 18:17
But, according to the pro-pit side of the argument, a pit raised properly would "never" attack anyone. In the Napora incident, there was a vocal pro-pit contingent who spread a story that Napora fell off a ladder, and the suspect dog was protecting her fallen body. The vocal pro-pit crowd was unable to explain the bite wounds, though.

The ratio of pits vs. pit bites is never explained by the pro-pit people; unless there are just that many pro-pit people who are bad dog owners.

1) Perception is reality for many, esp when non pit incidents are low priority news.
2) the 'pit bull' breed outnumbers any other breed in this country. Check any large dog shelter. It's simple math.
3) A properly raised 'any breed' can still attack someone, I wouldn't expect APBT's to be any different.
4) I have no idea what happened to Napora, but dogs do nip and try to agitate a fallen or unconscious person, nothing new there. A lab literally tore a passed-out woman's face off in France, for example.

Nordeste
04-02-2012, 18:55
Dano, Berto has almost answered your question (thanks for that), but I'd still like to point out something. You can never, never, completely dismiss the possibility of a dog attacking a human being, regardless of breed. It always exists. I know of a Yorkshire Terrier who completely lost her mind and her owners had to give her to a person who had a big property, because they could no longer live with her inside the house. She totally lost it. Figure out what can happen if, instead of a 6 lbs Yorkie, we're talking a 140 lbs Mastiff or a 70 lbs pit bull. I don't have the details on that Napora case, so I can't give you an estimation on what actually happened. I know that such a thing can happen with any dog. It just happens that Pit Bulls have stronger jaws, but not that they are more aggressive towards human than others.

Problems with Pit Bulls are, in most cases, related to their environment. These dogs really like people and are usually friendly, but there are certain precautions to be taken. I'd never advice a Pit, or similar, to a newbie dog owner. Once you're in control of them, I'd tell you that I prefer a pit bull over any dog, any day. But it takes some knowledge and authority to get their respect.

I don't know about that ratio you mention, at least in the US. Would love to see the figures, though. We've had statistics here and the result showed that it was the German Shepherd the breed that bit more people, with the Cocker Spaniel close behind. I myself had my dog (the female) bitten by a German Shepherd when she was a puppy, something she never, ever did when she grew up. She never even got into a fight with any other dog.

Problem with pits is the people handling them. Give one to a thug and it's likely to become a problem, give it to an unexperienced owner, and most likely, it won't attack people but, likely, will have some tendency to fight other dogs.

In this sense, I think that the way it's been handled here is quite close to being the right one. You put conditions to own a dog like these, you avoid a great part of the badasses willing to have their badass dog. You can't own a firearm with a criminal record, can you?. So, you neither can have a pit bull.

knoxvegasdaddy
04-02-2012, 23:55
Crazy thing how dogs of nearly all breeds have produced fatalities in their homes, but the only ones meritous of such controversy are pit bulls. These things have happened with labs, GSDs, even Pomerains for crap's sake.
All this hand wringing only increases the demand.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


That's it. I'm calling bull**** on you. Dogs of nearly all breeds have caused fatalities in the home? Really?

back that up with statistics.

I'll go first:

Centers for Disease Control and PreventionThe Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published in 2000 a study on dog bite-related fatalities (DBRF) that covered the years 1979-1998. The study found reports of 327 people killed by dogs over the 20-year period. Using newspaper articles, the CDC was able to obtain breed "identifications" for 238 of the 327 cases of fatal dog attacks; of which "pit bull terrier" or mixes thereof were reportedly involved in 76 cases. The breed with the next-highest number of attributed fatalities was the Rottweiler and mixes thereof, with 44 fatalities.[1]

Summary Tables
The following table summarizes the number of people reported killed in 1988 and 2005-2011 (as of June 28, 2011).

Dog Bite-related Fatalities in the United States Year Total # Most fatal attacks by # Second-most fatal attacks by
1988 1 Labrador Retriever (1) (100%)
2001 3 Presa canario (1) (33.33%)
Unknown Strays (1) (33.33%)

Pit Bull (1) (33.33%)

2002 2 German Shepherd (1) (50%) Rottweiler (1) (50%)
2003 8 Pit bull-type (4) (50%)
2004 8 3 Pit bull-type one Pit bull/Labrador Retriever mix (4) (50%)
2005 29 Pit Bull (12) (39%) Rottweiler (6) (21%)
2006 29 Pit Bull (12) (40%) Rottweiler (9) (31%)
2007 34 Pit Bull (15) (41%) Rottweiler (4) (12%)
2008 23 Pit Bull (11) (43%) Husky (3) (13%)
2009 30 Pit Bull (11) (32%) Rottweiler (4) (13%)
2010 32 Pit Bull (18) (53%) Rottweiler (4) (12%)
2011 12 Pit Bull or "Pit bull type" (7) (58%) Rottweiler (2) (16.66%)

So, from 2003-2011 Pit bulls account for 45% of ALL dog related deaths

Sharkey
04-03-2012, 07:52
:rofl::rofl::rofl:


That's it. I'm calling bull**** on you. Dogs of nearly all breeds have caused fatalities in the home? Really?

back that up with statistics.

I'll go first:

Centers for Disease Control and PreventionThe Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published in 2000 a study on dog bite-related fatalities (DBRF) that covered the years 1979-1998. The study found reports of 327 people killed by dogs over the 20-year period. Using newspaper articles, the CDC was able to obtain breed "identifications" for 238 of the 327 cases of fatal dog attacks; of which "pit bull terrier" or mixes thereof were reportedly involved in 76 cases. The breed with the next-highest number of attributed fatalities was the Rottweiler and mixes thereof, with 44 fatalities.[1]

Summary Tables
The following table summarizes the number of people reported killed in 1988 and 2005-2011 (as of June 28, 2011).

Dog Bite-related Fatalities in the United States Year Total # Most fatal attacks by # Second-most fatal attacks by
1988 1 Labrador Retriever (1) (100%)
2001 3 Presa canario (1) (33.33%)
Unknown Strays (1) (33.33%)

Pit Bull (1) (33.33%)

2002 2 German Shepherd (1) (50%) Rottweiler (1) (50%)
2003 8 Pit bull-type (4) (50%)
2004 8 3 Pit bull-type one Pit bull/Labrador Retriever mix (4) (50%)
2005 29 Pit Bull (12) (39%) Rottweiler (6) (21%)
2006 29 Pit Bull (12) (40%) Rottweiler (9) (31%)
2007 34 Pit Bull (15) (41%) Rottweiler (4) (12%)
2008 23 Pit Bull (11) (43%) Husky (3) (13%)
2009 30 Pit Bull (11) (32%) Rottweiler (4) (13%)
2010 32 Pit Bull (18) (53%) Rottweiler (4) (12%)
2011 12 Pit Bull or "Pit bull type" (7) (58%) Rottweiler (2) (16.66%)

So, from 2003-2011 Pit bulls account for 45% of ALL dog related deaths

So certain breeds of dogs are just born bad? Wouldn't logic dictate that certain races are born bad? What are the percentages for specific races that commit crime? Maybe we should ban certain races? Communities would be safer right?

My 2 pit mixes haven't done s**t to anyone but then I'm a responsible dog owner and don't chain my dog up or allow young kids I don't know wonder into my secure yard without parents around.

How many more kids are killed from guns in the home or swimming pools in the yard? Let us ban those too. It's all for the kids..............

Nordeste
04-03-2012, 09:32
Would love to see the statistics on overall attacks, not deaths as an aftermath of an attack.

We all know that a pit bull's bite is stronger than average, but that doesn't mean it's more likely to attack a human being than other breeds. They actually aren't.

ronduke
04-16-2012, 00:34
I guess it must be a crime for a felon to possess a Lab(rador retriever) in Il?

Agustin Fantauzzi, 27, of the 1600 block of North Spaulding Avenue, was charged with one count of felony cannabis possession and two misdemeanor counts of possession of certain dogs by felon;

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-ten-held-following-humboldt-park-drugs-weapons-bust-20120411,0,4761328.story

ronduke
05-16-2012, 02:38
Claims there was 'no need' to stun pit bull that had seriously bitten a woman
(the comments are pretty pro police)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-taser-dog-0516-20120516,0,4333278.story

ronduke
07-23-2014, 22:11
Baby dead after attack by dog

http://wdtn.com/2014/07/20/baby-dead-after-being-attacked-by-dog/

http://www.ketknbc.com/news/family-pit-bull-attacks-kills-infant

Snowman92D
07-23-2014, 23:01
Rumor has it that her 10MM was a BUG, and that her primary was a nice Lorcin, which she kept unloaded in case some nutcase dog went for her primary. :rofl:

You are bad. :supergrin:

PROSOUTH
07-24-2014, 07:02
WOW! THIS THREAD IS A COUPLE OF YEARS OLD. As an Officer I am still having the same problems with Pit Bulls, 95% of my dog bite calls are still untrained Pit Bulls. I think the Dog of Peace needs a support group that will hold BA Group Therapy (Bites Anonymous) and a 12 step program to change their ways.

I think the Chihuahua bite calls are not treated at the ER and are being hidden from Stats. Lol