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mike g35
11-12-2011, 12:10
Anyone know of a 38 special load that can safely make major power factor for ICORE? I own a S&W627pc, chambered for 38/357 and I want to shoot it in a few local ICORE competitions next year. Thanks in advance.

Zombie Steve
11-12-2011, 12:21
Gonna be tough... how long is the barrel?

mike g35
11-12-2011, 14:38
Barrel is 5 inches. I was considering having the caliber changed to 38 super. I just prefer to keep this as simple (and cheap) as possible.

GioaJack
11-12-2011, 14:46
What's ICORE? All these acronyms give me a headache. What ever happened to the phrase... "lets go shoot some stuff."


Jack

8Ring
11-12-2011, 15:08
Why not just load some mid range .357 magnums? The 357 mag might be a bit more accurate and you will avoid the the ring of crude inside the chambers from using 38spls.

The .357 mag case is (I think) only .1" longer than the .38 spl, so it won't slow down your reloads too much. I suggest in .357 mag using a 158gr or 180gr hard cast lead round nose bullet over some Hodgdon Universal. Another load I used in my GP-100 was a 140gr truncated cone lead bullet over 6.2gr Universal. It averaged around 1,200 fps through my GP-100's six inch barrel.

Hoser
11-12-2011, 15:35
Everyone in ICORE is minor unless you go sub-minor like Jack... No major/minor. Just a minimum PF of 120.

mike g35
11-12-2011, 17:48
Everyone in ICORE is minor unless you go sub-minor like Jack... No major/minor. Just a minimum PF of 120.

You're right, I forgot that. I was planning on shooting the revolver in some USPSA matches also, that why I was thinking of major, so the need to make major is still there but nearly as important. What about a load for the 38 to make 120PF? I am VERY new to all of this reloading stuff, actually I am just getting my load data together right now. I get my Dillon reloading gear next month. Anyway thats why I have all the questions.
And you said to try the 38 long colt brass also in a different thread. Does that require different reloading dies? Will they "behave" the same as the 38 special rounds, meaning will they operate correctly? I have to be able to reload fast and...well you know the game. Just wanna be sure what I try is something done for the sport I intend to shoot.
I should have bought one of the Talo S&W627pc 38 super v-comps. Then these problems wouldn't exist. I might stick in the limited division with this one then buy the super and shoot it in open. But I want to shoot a few matches first to see if I like ICORE enough to spend another two grand.

Colorado4Wheel
11-12-2011, 19:58
Did you think about just looking in your reloading manual. Maybe use BullsEye just to make Jack happy.

jmorris
11-13-2011, 07:16
Very few factory 38 spl will make 125 PF that is why IDPA lowered PF in SSR. 38+p will make it most of the time but with some fast powders the loads go beyond +p data. So ONLY USE THESE LOADS IN A 357 magnum.


Any of these should be fine for your 120 pf game

Using Berrys 158g loaded to 1.525" out of a 4" 357

3.3 VVN310 avg 803 fps

4.4 Clays avg 803 fps

4.2 Titegroup avg 809 fps

6.1 HS6 avg 802 fps

4.3 Bullseye avg 805 fps

Again DON'T USE THESE LOADS IN A 38 SPL only a 357.

Do any and everyone a favor that might come across your loads and don't make any major PF ammo using 38 spl cases.

WiskyT
11-13-2011, 07:31
Very few factory 38 spl will make 125 PF that is why IDPA lowered PF in SSR. 38+p will make it most of the time but with some fast powders the loads go beyond +p data. So ONLY USE THESE LOADS IN A 357 magnum.


Any of these should be fine for your 120 pf game

Using Berrys 158g loaded to 1.525" out of a 4" 357

3.3 VVN310 avg 803 fps

4.4 Clays avg 803 fps

4.2 Titegroup avg 809 fps

6.1 HS6 avg 802 fps

4.3 Bullseye avg 805 fps

Again DON'T USE THESE LOADS IN A 38 SPL only a 357.

Do any and everyone a favor that might come across your loads and don't make any major PF ammo using 38 spl cases.

791 fps with a 158 is hard to do? I haven't bothered to check factory loads, but I'd be surprised if most of them don't break 800fps. Many non+P handloads will do that.

mike g35
11-13-2011, 11:42
Very few factory 38 spl will make 125 PF that is why IDPA lowered PF in SSR. 38+p will make it most of the time but with some fast powders the loads go beyond +p data. So ONLY USE THESE LOADS IN A 357 magnum.


Any of these should be fine for your 120 pf game

Using Berrys 158g loaded to 1.525" out of a 4" 357

3.3 VVN310 avg 803 fps

4.4 Clays avg 803 fps

4.2 Titegroup avg 809 fps

6.1 HS6 avg 802 fps

4.3 Bullseye avg 805 fps

Again DON'T USE THESE LOADS IN A 38 SPL only a 357.

Do any and everyone a favor that might come across your loads and don't make any major PF ammo using 38 spl cases.
Thanks for the help, and just so you know I am not going to go and blow me and my gun up the S&W627pc is chambered for 357 mag (8 shot). But now with all that being said why couldn't I just shoot the 38+p or 357 mag ammo to make major PF??? That would seem to solve my issue, the only new issue being the longer casings would make reloads slower and more difficult. But I don't shoot the revolver that much yet anyway so its not like I am going to notice if my reloads take another 1/2 second. What do you guys think about that? Good or bad idea?

fredj338
11-13-2011, 11:52
Thanks for the help, and just so you know I am not going to go and blow me and my gun up the S&W627pc is chambered for 357 mag (8 shot). But now with all that being said why couldn't I just shoot the 38+p or 357 mag ammo to make major PF??? That would seem to solve my issue, the only new issue being the longer casings would make reloads slower and more difficult. But I don't shoot the revolver that much yet anyway so its not like I am going to notice if my reloads take another 1/2 second. What do you guys think about that? Good or bad idea?
You can safely get to major w/ a 158gr bullet & slow powders in the 38sp & 5" bbl. You need 1050fps, depending on your gun, pushing max charges of 2400 will get you there & the only downside will be very short brass life. The load will be +P & a bit more, but the 357mag will easily handle that. GO with a 158grLRNFP & work up to 9.5gr of 2400, a chronograph is mandatory for this. You can probably do it w/ Unique as well, but you'll be pushing hard.

jmorris
11-13-2011, 17:40
You can get to major pretty easy with a 158. I have a few "open" pistols that I make major with 115 grain bullets in 9mm at over 1450 fps (but I don't post those loads).

As for factory 38 making minor, IDPA took the floor down for SSR as many factory loads didn't make the old 125 floor.

albyihat
11-14-2011, 19:08
You can easily make major with that gun. As Fred says work up a .38 load with 2400 or another slow burning mag powder. Or just shoot .357 mags, it will all cost the same if your reloading. Reload time shouldn't be any different if you practice.

Hoser
11-14-2011, 20:10
Heavy bullets and slow powders is the way to go. You can use 38 special brass to get there. Start with the 158s and go heavier from there. I tried it with lighter bullets and it was miserable from a non-comped revo.

MrMunster
11-15-2011, 18:16
Keep in mind that the brass may be tough to eject once you get up to major. This could present an issue during a match when, under the pressure of the clock, you whack the ejector and put it through your hand. I'm the local ICORE match director and had this happen at the last match.

There is a reason that they make moon clip guns; much easier to make major with .38 super, .40/10, or .45.

mike g35
11-15-2011, 20:50
Heavy bullets and slow powders. Got it. Now one more question, how do I know which powders burn fast and which powders burn slow? Is their a book or something that tells me all this?
I have a Nosler reloading manual and all it tells me is how much to start with and what the max is. Where does all this other data come from?

MrMunster
11-15-2011, 21:54
How do I know which powders burn fast and which powders burn slow?

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

freakshow10mm
11-15-2011, 23:57
Blue Dot, #7, Longshot are the start of "slower" powders and stops at Lil Gun, H110/W296.

Hoser
11-16-2011, 08:21
Avoid blue dot. I have seen more pistols damaged by Blue Dot than any other powder. Wicked pressure spikes.

mike g35
11-17-2011, 11:16
Avoid blue dot. I have seen more pistols damaged by Blue Dot than any other powder. Wicked pressure spikes.
I am planning to load for 40, 9mm, and then later the 38 special. Any other things besides the blue dot I should avoid???
Also, I shoot raceguns with compensators, what type of powder (fast or slow burning) will have the higher pressure? I don't want to push my 9mm racegun to major since I have a 40 cal racer for that but I do want some decently high pressures when I load for the 9mm because the higher pressure loads will give me more efficieny from my comp..
By the way thanks for all of your help. I am still very new to reloading and competition shooting, even though I have been shooting my whole life, and having people out here to help me with these types of questions is great.

Hoser
11-17-2011, 13:13
Vhit N350, 3N38n, 3N37 all work excellent in the 9x19 and Super when loaded to major. They also burn very clean which is a huge plus for revos.

I use Longshot and N350. Longshot is a bit dirty and friggin loud and 350 is expensive.

jmorris
11-18-2011, 09:03
What about a load for the 38 to make 120PF?

If this is still what your after, you want heavy bullets and fast powders not slow ones, from my experience.

mike g35
11-18-2011, 17:35
If this is still what your after, you want heavy bullets and fast powders not slow ones, from my experience.
I AM still after a major load for the 38 sp. , what about the +p loads? I know this sounds dumb but do they use the exact same brass as other 38 loads? My experience with reloading is 0 so bear with me here.

jmorris
11-18-2011, 17:59
OK, 38 spl loads to make major will be beyond +P loads. If you are looking for a load that will make 165pf you want them to chrono at least 172pf so they won't leave you "hanging" at a match (175pf give a better buffer). No "38" loads do that but it is easy to get that out of the brass IN A 357....put that in an airweight by mistake and you would have rather used 357mag brass. The reload time won't hurt as bad as chambering the wrong load in a 38.

WiskyT
11-18-2011, 19:36
There are old manuals like Speer #8 that have 38 loads that will do what you want. A steady diet of them in a 38 might wear it out faster, but won't blow it up. They are more than safe in a 357, and if one inadvertantly found it's way into an airweight 38, there would just be some healthy recoil to deal with.

jmorris
11-18-2011, 20:41
I guess I do caution on the safe side when posting on forums to new folks. The same way I feel about 45-70 loads, also another round that started life as a low pressure black powder round as you never know where they will wind up. Likely as safe as you putting 300 psi in your ASME airtank rated for 120, it should hold it, but the "factory" would never tell you to do it.

Hell when I was a kid I loaded 357's that would top 41mag loads. Now that I am older I down load 44's instead.

Be safe in any case, good luck.