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Glotin
11-14-2011, 14:20
I was traveling on I-26 on my way to a tournament the youth lacrosse team I coach was playing in. I was in the left hand lane behind another vehicle moving with the flow of traffic. It was about 10 PM.

I noticed an SUV get on the interstate just behind me with its high-beams on (red flag #1). The SUV immediately merges into the left hand lane and starts tailgating me very close. Again, I'm moving with traffic and there's a car in front of me so I couldn't get out of this guy's way if I wanted to.

As the guy continues to tailgate I'm thinking he's either drunk or a very aggressive driver. Either way, I don't want to be anywhere near him.

SUV stays right on my bumper as we continue to pass traffic. After we clear traffic the car that was in front of me gets over into right hand lane.

At this point, not knowing what this guys deal is, I just want to get away from him. I accelerate down the highway (my car has >300hp so it will move) and away from drunk/aggressive guy.

After I've put some distance between us I resume moving with traffic in the right hand lane.

About this time I see flashing lights up ahead and move over into left hand lane. As I'm passing two police cars (unmarked I think) I notice SUV come right up behind me again. This time I pass traffic and get into right hand lane. SUV does same and shortly thereafter turns on his lights and pulls me over.

So the SUV tailgating me so badly were two DEA agents in an unmarked SUV.

I pull over, turn on inside lights and keep my hands on the steering wheel. They come up and knock loudly on passenger side window.

DEA #1: "License and Registration... I pulled you over for going about 120 back there"
Me: "Yes sir" I hand him my ID pack with DL and military ID, which he immediately takes back to their SUV.
DEA #2: "Do you have anything in the car you're not supposed to?"
Me: "I have a gun in the center console, sir" (Perfectly legal, but wanted to let them know)
#2: "Under the seat?"
Me: "No sir, in the center console"
#2: "Keep your hands on the dash... What kind of gun?"
Me: "Glock 17, sir"
#2: "Where did you get it?"
Me: "Lawmen's in Columbia"
#2: "Why were you speeding?"
Me: "Honestly, sir, I thought you were tailgating me and were either drunk or an aggressive driver, and wanted to get away from you"
#2: "We were on our way to help out our buddies back there"

That was the end of it until DEA#1 comes back with ticket for "To Fast For Condition" (it was not raining)... $240 and 4 points. He also tells me that I need to get a SC DL because I live in SC now (not true since I'm active duty military).

They didn't have radar so they have no idea how fast I was going. I really don't know how fast I was going either... It wasn't about the speed it was about putting distance between me and them and I didn't look at the speedometer. When I was at speed I didn't pass any other vehicles and had slowed down and started moving with traffic again by the time they got behind me again.

They were tailgating me pretty badly and I wanted to remove myself from the situation. I could have handled the situation differently but I made what I thought was the best/safest decision based on limited information. I'm not very interested in having a drunk/aggressive driver next to/in front of me on the interstate... it's a lot better to have a problem behind you than ahead of you. If they were in such a hurry to "help out their buddies" they should have turned their lights on instead of driving recklessly.

I haven't gotten a ticket since I was 19 on a PCS move for the military (5 years ago). That ticket was for 80 in a 75 and I just paid it, didn't go to court.

My questions:

1. What does "CTC" mean; under "Name of Trial Officer"?
2. Should I get a lawyer for this or just go to court and tell the Judge what happened? My GF was in the car with me and will be going to court with me.
3. This will be my first time contesting anything in court so any other advice commensurate with that would be appreciated.

Rabbi
11-14-2011, 14:27
Uh....You are saying you got a "ticket" from a Fed...enforcing the State misdemeanor traffic code?

harlenm
11-14-2011, 14:29
Yeah, I don't see a DEA agent writing a traffic ticket, it's kinda out of their jurisdiction.

Glotin
11-14-2011, 14:32
Uh....You are saying you got a "ticket" from a Fed...enforcing the State misdemeanor traffic code?

I could be wrong but I thought they were DEA.

Didn't see much of them and they didn't identify themselves.

I did see "AGENT" across one's back, and assumed they would be DEA based on 3 unmarked cars responding to one pulled over vehicle on the interstate.

GF thought they were DEA/something other than state troopers/local police aswell.

Could they have been working together one DEA one State Trooper?

Or possibly I just mistook a state trooper drug enforcement task force for DEA.

Bottom line is I could definitely be wrong, but that was the impression that we got.

bci21984
11-14-2011, 14:42
Does the citation not have the name of the issuing agency on it? Post a picture of it.

G33
11-14-2011, 14:46
Lawyer up.
Too many problems with story to discuss.
How was your speed clocked, etc...?

ChiefWPD
11-14-2011, 14:47
Glotin:

The DEA (unless cross sworn which sometimes happens - we sware-in federal National Park Police in my town) shouldn't be writing "tickets." What's the piece of paper say and where are you supposed to respond to??

hpracing007
11-14-2011, 14:48
Man, they must be really hurting for some revenue.

eclark53520
11-14-2011, 14:49
You were speeding. You admitted it.

They gave you a ticket for too fast for conditions(it doesn't have to be raining to get that ticket).

Pay the ticket. Move on.

Next time, just get in the right lane and out of the way.

chris in va
11-14-2011, 14:50
What does the header on the ticket say? Where do you have to pay it?

My friend had a similar incident over the river in Indiana a couple years ago. We went to 'court' to contest it, which really was just a line of people waiting for their turn at the table with the assistant-assistant DA. We explained what happened, they dropped the points and fines with the agreement she would get no more tickets for the next year.

eclark53520
11-14-2011, 14:50
Lawyer up.
Too many problems with story to discuss.
How was your speed clocked, etc...?

He wasn't cited for speeding.

Too fast for conditions is a judgment call.


He already admitted to speeding on a public forum.

boomhower
11-14-2011, 14:55
He doesnthave radar so he cited to fast for conditions since he couldn't cite a specific speed. Most judges are going to agree 120 is to fast for any condition outside of Montana like roads.


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dhoomonyou
11-14-2011, 14:55
Get a lawyer.

Hindsight being 20/20, pull over right, call troopers to report other driver.

G33
11-14-2011, 14:56
He wasn't cited for speeding.

Too fast for conditions is a judgment call.


He already admitted to speeding on a public forum.

Even more bogus.
:rofl:

fnfalman
11-14-2011, 14:57
FIGHT DA POWAHHH!!!

Go to court and have your day.

G33
11-14-2011, 14:59
More crooked cops!
:rofl:

LL6
11-14-2011, 15:03
You were speeding. You admitted it.

They gave you a ticket for too fast for conditions(it doesn't have to be raining to get that ticket).

Pay the ticket. Move on.

Next time, just get in the right lane and out of the way.
Bad advice. A conviction for 15 over in the state of NC results in suspension of the DL. Don't know what it is where the OP's at but just paying the ticket won't end well.

Definitely lawyer up.

LongGoneDays
11-14-2011, 15:04
I think tailgating & bright lights and you were still polite? Are you retarded or lying?

eclark53520
11-14-2011, 15:07
Bad advice. A conviction for 15 over in the state of NC results in suspension of the DL. Don't know what it is where the OP's at but just paying the ticket won't end well.

Definitely lawyer up.

Again, for the how many'th time, he was not cited for speeding.

ithaca_deerslayer
11-14-2011, 15:10
One of the "Vacation" movies has a funny scene where Chevy Chase is having trouble with some other driver on the road, so he flies by them going as fast as his family station wagon can go, while saying to his wife:

"I'm going to put them safely behind me." :rofl:


I think your premise of putting them safely behind you was flawed. Aggressive car on your butt, move over to the right and let them by. They are just going to fly down the road and get on someone else's butt.

If they stay on your butt when they can pass, and you've slowed down, then that would be a different situation.

Just sayin :)

Mister_Beefy
11-14-2011, 15:10
You were speeding. You admitted it.

They gave you a ticket for too fast for conditions(it doesn't have to be raining to get that ticket).

Pay the ticket. Move on.

Next time, just get in the right lane and out of the way.


:rofl::rofl:

busted for SWNC!

(speeding while not a cop)

John Rambo
11-14-2011, 15:11
Here is what I read.

Blah blah blah, crap that doesn't matter.

I got a ticket.

Blah blah blah, crap that doesn't matter.

Blah blah blah, random questions.




Can you identify the part of that post that was useful?



Get a lawyer. Fight the ticket. ALWAYS get a lawyer. ALWAYS fight the ticket. Have a good day!

DanaT
11-14-2011, 15:17
Advice: Don't drive that fast on the highway and then you don't have to ask for advice what to do when you get a ticket.

If he was taligating that close, did you not see the lights in the grill?

Also, if you were going anywhere near 120mph, this wasn't something that happened over a few seconds. Lets say you started at 80mph and had constant acceleration (which you dont but easier calculation) upto 120mph. That probably took at least 20 seconds. Assuming an average speed of 100mph (see the constant accelration thingy there) you covered about 2900 feet in that time or well over a half mile at high speeds. Hard to claim an "ooopps I dodn't know" when it took a half mile or more to do what you did.

-Dana

MrsKitty
11-14-2011, 15:19
Moved to CopTalk where you will get serious advice. :wavey:

IndyGunFreak
11-14-2011, 15:30
120mph?!?!

That would have gotten you arrested here.

PROSOUTH
11-14-2011, 15:44
DEA has state officers who work under them such as an ABC Agent friend of mine here in TN. He is attached to them but is really an Alcohol Beverage Commission officer.

As for your ticket, sorry for your luck.

There are just to many really guilty drivers out there for us to have to pick on you un-justly.

msu_grad_121
11-14-2011, 16:13
There are just to many really guilty drivers out there for us to have to pick on you un-justly.

This.

Unfortunately, your version is short on what happened and long on why you think you were wronged. If you feel that slighted, by all means get a lawyer. And yes, if you were barrelling down the E-way at 120 in MI, I don't know too many cops that wouldn't have at least cited you for Reckless.

Bottom line: you got a break, but if you choose to pursue it, I don't think you're going to like how it turns out. The choice is yours, though.

Vigilant
11-14-2011, 17:10
My solution for buttholes who elect to tailgate me in my personal car: Don't slam on the brakes, don't even show them any brake lights. Just lay into the emergency brake!

All jokes aside, I just back off the gas, and start to slowly decellerate, until the knuckleheads get tired of it, and go around me. Works every time, and should stand up quite well in court if things did in fact go south from there.

Just let 'em go on. Life's too short.

G33
11-14-2011, 17:22
Now in Cop Talk.
So...OP must be lying.
:rofl:

Dexters
11-14-2011, 18:12
SUV stays right on my bumper as we continue to pass traffic. After we clear traffic the car that was in front of me gets over into right hand lane.


Why didn't you move into the right hand lane when you could?

How far did you go after the car in front of you moved out of the way and you were instructed to pull over ?

RocPO
11-14-2011, 18:57
Two options. Pay the summons or pay the lawyer.

Free legal advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Glotin
11-14-2011, 19:14
You were speeding. You admitted it.

They gave you a ticket for too fast for conditions(it doesn't have to be raining to get that ticket).

Pay the ticket. Move on.

Next time, just get in the right lane and out of the way.

I never made any admission of anything, speeding or otherwise.

What does the header on the ticket say? Where do you have to pay it?


It says "State of SC Uniform Traffic Ticket". It's county court in Orangeburg, SC.

I think tailgating & bright lights and you were still polite? Are you retarded or lying?

Neither. The brights came off shortly after they entered the highway.

If he was taligating that close, did you not see the lights in the grill?

Also, if you were going anywhere near 120mph, this wasn't something that happened over a few seconds. Lets say you started at 80mph and had constant acceleration (which you dont but easier calculation) upto 120mph. That probably took at least 20 seconds. Assuming an average speed of 100mph (see the constant accelration thingy there) you covered about 2900 feet in that time or well over a half mile at high speeds. Hard to claim an "ooopps I dodn't know" when it took a half mile or more to do what you did.

-Dana

Literally all I saw in my mirror was his head lights. It was dark and his headlights were right in my back window.. couldn't see anything else.

I was accelerating for much less than 20 seconds. FWIW, accelerating 80-120 in my car takes about 5 seconds. I don't know this from personal experience, but I found videos on Youtube because I was curious after you said that (120 is an arbitrary number that they picked).

This.

Unfortunately, your version is short on what happened and long on why you think you were wronged. If you feel that slighted, by all means get a lawyer. And yes, if you were barrelling down the E-way at 120 in MI, I don't know too many cops that wouldn't have at least cited you for Reckless.

Bottom line: you got a break, but if you choose to pursue it, I don't think you're going to like how it turns out. The choice is yours, though.

How is it short on what happened? I tried to give as much detail as I could.

Why didn't you move into the right hand lane when you could?

How far did you go after the car in front of you moved out of the way and you were instructed to pull over ?

That's what I did the second time... someone said something about hindsight being 20/20. Again, I made what I thought to be the best decision at the time given the info I had. I'm surprised at how willing most of you are to drive in the vicinity of a drunk driver.

Two options. Pay the summons or pay the lawyer.

Free legal advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I'm not looking for legal advice...

So, what I gather from many of the posts is that it's perfectly OK for LEO's to tailgate (something I consider much more dangerous than speeding) when they have the option instead to turn on their lights to respond to a call; and no one knows what CTC means under "Name of Trial Officer".

I'm not trying to play the victim here. I understand why they did what they did, and I was very respectful towards them (as I am towards all LEOs) and didn't give them any attitude nor trouble. We're all on the same team.

But I also understand why I did what I did. And if you look at it objectively, I think what they did was more dangerous and inappropriate that what I did, and their actions precipitated my actions.

Bottom line is I'm looking for the best way to move on from here. I've already learned from the experience and will handle similar situations differently in the future.... and I want to know what CTC means for "Name of Trial Officer" so I don't waste my Thursday driving to Orangeburg for nothing.

collim1
11-14-2011, 19:15
DEA agents can't write a ticket. Larger the jurisdiction, more concentrated the enforcement actions. ie no traffic enforcement.

It definitely was not a DEA agent. Most likely a county, state, or municipal officer working interdiction.

Most likely he paced your speed, which in my state is a citation for "reasonable and prudent speed" which means there was not a radar reading confirming exact speed. If I get behind someone and hold 90mph and they increase distance between that would mean they are in excess of 90mph.

Bruce M
11-14-2011, 19:37
... (120 is an arbitrary number that they picked).



.... I'm surprised at how willing most of you are to drive in the vicinity of a drunk driver.



".


120 may be an arbitrary number or it may be the product of a pace clock. Trial might prove which.


I'm surprised that someone would be willing to speed up to three figures in the vicinity of a drunk driver. If I was afraid that someone might potentially crash into me, I would want to be slowing, maybe to single digits.

berto62
11-14-2011, 20:10
I'm glad you got a ticket.I hate people that get in the left lane and just park there.GTF out of the way.Remember "Keep right except to pass"

Glotin
11-14-2011, 20:15
120 may be an arbitray number or it may be the product of a pace clock. Trial might prove which.


I'm surprised that someone would be willing to speed up to three figures in the vicinity of a drunk driver. If I was afraid that someone might potentially crash into me, I would want to be slowing, maybe to single digits.

No, there was no pace clock nor did they pace me. They picked that number.

Never once has a driving instructor told me "Slow down and let the trouble pass you" You accelerate away from trouble... if I am afraid someone is going to crash into me I want them behind me... not next to or in front of me.

Glotin
11-14-2011, 20:17
I'm glad you got a ticket.I hate people that get in the left lane and just park there.GTF out of the way.Remember "Keep right except to pass"

... I don't "park" in the left lane. Did you read(comprehend) anything other than "left lane"? Like the part where I said I was actively passing traffic with a car in front of me and this guy on my bumper, and even if I wanted to get over I couldn't have?

Dexters
11-14-2011, 20:45
That's what I did the second time... someone said something about hindsight being 20/20. Again, I made what I thought to be the best decision at the time given the info I had. I'm surprised at how willing most of you are to drive in the vicinity of a drunk driver.



You deserve the ticket for - I'm not telling you why but we all know why.

nastytrigger
11-14-2011, 21:12
In my fast driving days, I deserved my 90mph in a 55mph zone ticket + the points I received. Was it radared? I don't know, but I knew I was doing 100mph just before, so 90 is less than I was... I paid my $200 fine, took the written test, and passed with flying colors.

I say pay and be done.

I obey every driving law now. Every! No where does it say speeding up, over the speed limit, can get you away from a dangerous driver. If the right lane was blocked, at least signal your intent to get over, away from faster traffic. One of the main things not to do while driving is impede traffic/movement.

Plus, I drive by the slogan, "Drive Right". Meaning, drive on the right side only, unless to pass, and "right" as following the rules/regulation/laws.

Glotin
11-14-2011, 21:22
In my fast driving days, I deserved my 90mph in a 55mph zone ticket + the points I received. Was it radared? I don't know, but I knew I was doing 100mph just before, so 90 is less than I was... I paid my $200 fine, took the written test, and passed with flying colors.

I say pay and be done.

I obey every driving law now. Every! No where does it say speeding up, over the speed limit, can get you away from a dangerous driver. If the right lane was blocked, at least signal your intent to get over, away from faster traffic. One of the main things not to do while driving is impede traffic/movement.

Plus, I drive by the slogan, "Drive Right". Meaning, drive on the right side only, unless to pass, and "right" as following the rules/regulation/laws.

I completely agree with you about impeding traffic and staying in the right hand lane.

Thank you for the constructive reply. Seems to be a rarity around here.

blueiron
11-15-2011, 00:08
DEA? Really?

I worked for DEA as a S/A and they do not write traffic citations/tickets. Unless you somehow got a citation to appear in the nearest U.S. Magistrate's Court at the local Federal building for some new Eric Holder copulation encounter group involving simians, you did not get a traffic ticket from the Feds.

Hell, wave a pound of marijuana in front of a real DEA agent and all they'll do is laugh at you.

blueiron
11-15-2011, 00:15
DEA has state officers who work under them such as an ABC Agent friend of mine here in TN. He is attached to them but is really an Alcohol Beverage Commission officer.



Yes, there are Task Force Agents, but every TFA I have seen has put the traffic bug to sleep long ago. We had Arizona DPS people working with us and they wouldn't do more at an accident than call it in and all the traffic citations were left for the road drones.

If those were TFAs, they either just got on and haven't realized that they are supposed to be undercover/very low profile or they are looking and hoping to get chopped from the TF for doing road work.

S.O.Interceptor
11-15-2011, 00:53
So you were contacted, talked to these guys, gave them your information, signed a citation, and accepted a copy of it, without ever asking their names or who they worked for?

Never once has a driving instructor told me "Slow down and let the trouble pass you" You accelerate away from trouble... if I am afraid someone is going to crash into me I want them behind me... not next to or in front of me.

Uh huh. Who were these driving instructors and what were they teaching? You weren't being shot at, you were being tailgated. You don't continue accelerating away from tailgaters, reckless drivers, or drunks. You let them pass.

And no, you don't want a drunk driver behind you. You want them where you can see them and avoid them. You get them past you as soon as possible. You don't go 120mph with them right behind you.

Bruce M
11-15-2011, 08:27
SUV stays right on my bumper as we continue to pass traffic...


They didn't have radar so they have no idea how fast I was going.

...They were tailgating me pretty badly ....

No, there was no pace clock nor did they pace me. They picked that number.

Never once has a driving instructor told me "Slow down and let the trouble pass you" You accelerate away from trouble... if I am afraid someone is going to crash into me I want them behind me... not next to or in front of me.


As I said, maybe at a trial they can indicate whether they guessed at your speed or if they did pace you at a certain speed, or they got to a certain speed and you were outdistancing them. Oddly, sometimes that information is reserved for the court room as opposed to being offered up on the side of the roadway.


As far as what to do when tailgated, slow down and let the vehicle pass http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/scanning.htm CA driver's handbook.

If you are being tailgated... move to the right and let the vehicle pass. Sample test CT DMV http://www.dmvct.state.ct.us/optstq3.htm

If being tailgated drive even slower and pull over Drive Safely.net http://www.drive-safely.net/rear-ended.html

If being tailgated don't brake suddenly, tap brakes, slow down and move to another lane if possible. VA Driver's Handbook http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv39d.pdf

I could go on, but some will have already got my point.
If you have quotes from any reasonable source that suggests the safe thing to do is speed up to above 100 to get away, I'd like to see that. Or I guess you could always ask your insurance company...

scottydl
11-15-2011, 08:31
With traffic violations in my state, INTENT DOES NOT MATTER. If you break the traffic law, you are guilty. Therefore, you are guilty by your own admission.

That doesn't mean a judge or traffic SA might not give you a break in court, but they might also hammer you for wasting their time by trying to explain away a ticket that you admittedly deserved.

Believe it or not, you got a break already... "Too Fast For Conditions" is a much better outcome than if they HAD legitimately caught you going 120 in a 65 or whatever. That might have gotten you a temporary set of metal bracelets for Reckless Driving and a suspended DL.

Best option is to pay it and move on. Whether you do that yourself, or through a traffic attorney is your call and depends on how much money you want to pay up front. Check with your insurance company/policy to see if a single moving violation will affect your rates.

Milltown
11-15-2011, 10:16
Go to court, if it is like you say it is then they probably will just not show up at all.

Sharky7
11-15-2011, 11:20
No, there was no pace clock nor did they pace me. They picked that number.

Never once has a driving instructor told me "Slow down and let the trouble pass you" You accelerate away from trouble... if I am afraid someone is going to crash into me I want them behind me... not next to or in front of me.

Your second statement is definitely wrong and I suspect your first one is too.

How do you know you were not paced? If the officer was behind you traveling the same speed as you - he was probably pacing you (looking at his speedometer to gauge your speed).

You NEVER want to be in front of an aggressive or intoxicated motorist. Whoever your driving instructor is - you should ask for your money back. Get behind them and put PLENTY of room between the two of you. If you stay in front of them, aggressive drivers will continue at their high speed causing you to race them. This would probably cause even more aggression and they take it as a challenge. You never want to be in front of an intoxicated motorist, that is just plain dumb. If you are stopped in traffic at a light and the intoxicated motorist doesn't stop, you can't do too much to get out of his way as he rear ends you.

COLOSHOOTR
11-15-2011, 16:11
So, what I gather from many of the posts is that it's perfectly OK for LEO's to tailgate (something I consider much more dangerous than speeding) when they have the option instead to turn on their lights to respond to a call; and no one knows what CTC means under "Name of Trial Officer".


This seems what upsets you the most is not the fact you got a ticket but that the Cops got right up on your bumper causing you to speed off to get away. I really do get where you're coming from but I'd like for you to look at it from our perspective.

The main reason they were probably right off your bumper was that they wanted you to get move over so they can pass. Also, it's very likely they were not in a position to turn on the lights, to have you mover over, without blowing their entire opereation. In my career I have lost several very dangerous criminals because of other peoples poor driving. One time while in an unmarked car I had a guy in a F250 being a jerk speeding up, slowing down and doing everything he could to not let me pass. I could not activate my lights otherwise I'd be letting the armed gang members I was trying to follow know I was on them before any of my cover could get close. Well because of the Ahole in the truck I lost the kids and several guns got to stay on the street (kids later arrested and guns recovered few weeks later). After I lost them I didn't have to worry about starting a car chase in heavy traffic anymore so I pulled the guy in the truck over and he sure as heck got a ticket even though I'm not normally much of a ticket writer. So, maybe they were trying to catch up to the tail without tipping the BG off and you were in the way.

BTW, any driving instructor who told you that you should speed up and get away is a tool. In my experience drunks tend to speed up when the traffic in front of them speeds up. So now you're helping to get them to drive faster behind you. What happens when you get stuck in traffic up ahead for unknown construction or an accident? Then that drunk gets to shove his car up your tail pipes! The best thing to do is move to the right, maybe well on to he shoulder so you're sure you're safe, and let them pass. You're chances are way better keeping some distance behind them.

As far as CTC I don't personally know as it's not a term used here but a quick Google search turned up CTC= Circuit Trial Counsel. My guess being a State Summons is it's just whatever Magistrate is assigned to that circuit court as the "Court Officer." Some places use Magistrates or Hearing Officers rather then Judges for Traffic Infractions saving the actual Judges for more serious crimes.

eclark53520
11-15-2011, 16:29
I never made any admission of anything, speeding or otherwise.






At this point, not knowing what this guys deal is, I just want to get away from him. I accelerate down the highway (my car has >300hp so it will move) and away from drunk/aggressive guy.




Assuming you weren't impeding the flow of traffic by going extremely slow before you 'accelerated down the highway' then you admitted to speeding.

ateamer
11-15-2011, 16:47
They don't need radar or a timing device. A bumper pace is a perfectly legitimate method of establishing another car's speed. There is no minimum distance, either. And at 120, no need for a calibrated speedometer. You were so far over the limit that there isn't a judge in the world who would require calibration to prove the exact speed; over 100 is sufficient.

Hack
11-15-2011, 17:43
I suggest paying the fine, and learning from this incident.

Look at all of the situation that you have explained to us, (after all we weren't there).

You could not see anything behind yourself.
You only saw the vehicle and the lights.

From my experience, (driving since 1978 or 1979), moving over to another lane as soon as practicable and carefully slowing down is your safest option. If the driver of the other vehicle continues moving with you then you have another situation to be concerned about.

As to the ticket: check with the county in which the court is that you would have to report to; if you want to contest the ticket. Give them your questions about the ticket. They will give you the appropriate answers concerning the ticket. That is really your best options concerning what the ticket contains.

You were not given a speeding ticket per say, (according to your statement) but you were given basically a driving to exceed conditions ticket. Regardless of your speed in Kansas, if you are driving in what is perceived as an unsafe manner by a reasonable officer perceiving with his experiential knowledge, it doesn't matter what your actual speed is at the time of the ticket; normally. But, it sounds like to me that the officer may have given you a break.

Now, as to DEA doing traffic: doesn't happen, and most other federal agencies do not do traffic either, unless that particular federal agency's jurisdiction includes road/traffic patrol, such as VA Police on VA property; DOD Police on a military base, what have you. It was most likely state or below.

Check with your insurance concerning the advantages of lawyering up. However it sounds to me like you got off easy.

steveksux
11-15-2011, 20:00
I was traveling on I-26 on my way to a tournament the youth lacrosse team I coach was playing in. I was in the left hand lane behind another vehicle moving with the flow of traffic. It was about 10 PM.

I noticed an SUV get on the interstate just behind me with its high-beams on (red flag #1). The SUV immediately merges into the left hand lane and starts tailgating me very close. Again, I'm moving with traffic and there's a car in front of me so I couldn't get out of this guy's way if I wanted to.

As the guy continues to tailgate I'm thinking he's either drunk or a very aggressive driver. Either way, I don't want to be anywhere near him.So far so good.



SUV stays right on my bumper as we continue to pass traffic. After we clear traffic the car that was in front of me gets over into right hand lane.

At this point, not knowing what this guys deal is, I just want to get away from him.Great idea.

I accelerate down the highway (my car has >300hp so it will move) and away from drunk/aggressive guy.

After I've put some distance between us I resume moving with traffic in the right hand lane.At this point you've clearly lost your mind. Safer to zoom up to 120 to get away from aggressive driver, rather than just pulling in front of the car that was just blocking you and getting out of the way, at a moderate rate of speed?

If you want to put distance between yourself and an aggressive driver GTFO of his way. He'll be happy to speed up and supply the distance. The sooner he forgets about you and gets pissed off at the next guy that ends up in front of him, the better.

You're lucky as hell you got something other than 120mph in a 65 zone. You got yourself a hell of a break here. Rest assured the judge will know what really happened and may be inclined to erase the break you got rather than cut you some additional slack. I'd count my lucky stars and pay the ticket.

And that's assuming they believe your story about your motivations. I think its probably at least as likely that you sped way up to "teach him a lesson", i.e. you could have sped up and gotten out of the way earlier, and chose not to, then made a big show of zooming away and finally pulling over. Only to go back in the left lane as he approached again. Maybe you didn't, but judge is going to act on what he thinks really happened, he's not obligated to buy your story, nor to disprove it. Guy that zooms up to 120 is clearly an aggressive driver himself, and will be assumed to be exactly that, and your version of events interpreted in that light.

I'm not a cop, so feel free to ignore my advice, but please tell us how it worked out if you fight it...

Randy

trdvet
11-15-2011, 20:02
Pay it

or

Fight it

freeride88
11-15-2011, 20:35
No, there was no pace clock nor did they pace me. They picked that number.

Never once has a driving instructor told me "Slow down and let the trouble pass you" You accelerate away from trouble... if I am afraid someone is going to crash into me I want them behind me... not next to or in front of me.

Brother there's nothing complicated about this. If they were behind you doing 120mph and not overtaking you, you were traveling around 120mph. It's very simple, and perfectly valid. The problem is that speed. I have trouble believing that your ONLY option was to accelerate to 120mph (or thereabouts, let's not argue over a few mph) in order to be safe. Simply pull over to the right and let them go. Why would anyone teach you to "outspeed" a speeder? I've been a motorcycle safety instructor in the past and I'd never advise anyone to do anything other than to pull over and allow the "threat" to move on.

There's basically no way to get around that speed. Your argument might be valid if they had pulled you over at 80 in a 70, but somewhere around 120? No way.

trifecta
11-15-2011, 21:51
Never once has a driving instructor told me "Slow down and let the trouble pass you" You accelerate away from trouble... if I am afraid someone is going to crash into me I want them behind me... not next to or in front of me.

I don't know where you found that driving instructor or that logic. A car moving the same direction as you can't crash into you if it is in front of you.

I understand what you did and why. I might have done it when I was much younger. We would both be wrong.

As for the officers that tailgate, I don't like it as a general rule. There are times when we don't use lights out of necessity but tailgating is dangerous. That's why it's illegal under normal conditions. As an officer, it should be used under very limited circumstances.

Everybody is entitled to their day in court-sometimes out can work out in your favor. Don't count on the officer failing to show up.

ArmaGlock
11-16-2011, 00:23
I'm not sure about South Carolina, but in Florida I've seen people get the points taken off and only pay fine by going to traffic court and pleading "no contest (nolo contendre)." This is mostly effective for those with a good driving record.

FYI, for all of those going with the "he didn't have radar, fight it" approach, FAIL...Radar is not required to write a speeding ticket. Most, if not all agencies get the speedometers in their police cars calibrated and can pace vehicles to determine speed...

DaBigBR
11-16-2011, 07:58
FYI, for all of those going with the "he didn't have radar, fight it" approach, FAIL...Radar is not required to write a speeding ticket. Most, if not all agencies get the speedometers in their police cars calibrated and can pace vehicles to determine speed...

I have never heard of an agency in my area, including my own, actually having the speedometer calibrated. The speedometer head is calibrated from the factory, but the actual speedometer is not. It is calibrated to read +/- two miles per hour over the entire speed head. It's a slight difference than calibrating the actual speedometer, but a difference nonetheless.

And as stated, RADAR, VASCAR, LIDAR, or any other speed measuring device is NOT required to stop somebody for speeding, charge somebody with a speed violation, or prevail at trial. One of the first steps of establishing a proper tracking history with a speed measuring device is making a visual estimation of the vehicle's speed before activating the speed measuring device. The NHTSA standards for certification require consistent estimation ability within five miles per hour of actual (+/- 3 MPH for instructors).

Bruce M
11-16-2011, 12:27
With enterpreneurial spirit, this guy has a calibration system in the back of his truck and comes out to various facilities twice a year or so. http://www.leospeedometer.com/

DaBigBR
11-16-2011, 13:09
I forgot to add that an "uncalibrated" speedometer can very easily be checked against the calibrated (and tested) radar system in the patrol car.

merlynusn
11-16-2011, 14:17
Most citations list what agency it is from. Along with name, badge number, etc. You can always call the clerk of court to see what agency it is. They may also be able to tell you what CTC is. I don't know what it is but I'm not in SC either. The Clerk of Court in Orangeburg should be able to help you with that.

While accelerating away from a drunk/aggressive driver is not the best thing, I do understand it. I wouldn't pay it and just go explain your side of the story. They may reduce it. And I don't know what "too fast for conditions" is when it's clear and dry out.

To answer your question about tailgating... sometimes I have to get pretty close to be able to read the license plate and the other driver may think I'm tailgating. Also, if they are trying to get down the road and you are blocking them, a lot of cops will tailgate to try to "push" you out of the way and into another lane so they can get to where they need to go. Once they aren't needed at that other place, they can come and pull you over, even if it was miles and miles ago that they observed a violation.

ArmaGlock
11-16-2011, 23:39
I have never heard of an agency in my area, including my own, actually having the speedometer calibrated. The speedometer head is calibrated from the factory, but the actual speedometer is not. It is calibrated to read +/- two miles per hour over the entire speed head. It's a slight difference than calibrating the actual speedometer, but a difference nonetheless.

And as stated, RADAR, VASCAR, LIDAR, or any other speed measuring device is NOT required to stop somebody for speeding, charge somebody with a speed violation, or prevail at trial. One of the first steps of establishing a proper tracking history with a speed measuring device is making a visual estimation of the vehicle's speed before activating the speed measuring device. The NHTSA standards for certification require consistent estimation ability within five miles per hour of actual (+/- 3 MPH for instructors).

Head, speedometer, whatever, something gets calibrated on my car every other time it goes to service. Our fleet management sticks the calibration results in the car so we have them for court. Maybe it's not as common as I thought.

Peace Frog
11-17-2011, 11:32
So, what I gather from many of the posts is that it's perfectly OK for LEO's to tailgate (something I consider much more dangerous than speeding) when they have the option instead to turn on their lights to respond to a call; and no one knows what CTC means under "Name of Trial Officer".

I'm not trying to play the victim here. I understand why they did what they did, and I was very respectful towards them (as I am towards all LEOs) and didn't give them any attitude nor trouble. We're all on the same team.

But I also understand why I did what I did. And if you look at it objectively, I think what they did was more dangerous and inappropriate that what I did, and their actions precipitated my actions.

Bottom line is I'm looking for the best way to move on from here. I've already learned from the experience and will handle similar situations differently in the future.... and I want to know what CTC means for "Name of Trial Officer" so I don't waste my Thursday driving to Orangeburg for nothing.

Just a guess but the CTC is probably Central Traffic Court...?


Your own version will find you guilty...But if you go into court and explain to the judge without trying to get out of said ticket or shift your guilt to the LEO who issued the citation the judge may reduce the fine and the points that will go on your DL...

I guarantee you if you go to court to get out of the ticket by placing blame on the officer you will not like the outcome.

:wavey:


BTW was that in Marion County?

opelwasp
11-17-2011, 15:21
I have never heard of an agency in my area, including my own, actually having the speedometer calibrated.

We have ours calibrated at least twice a year. We have the calibration slips in the squad room at the office in case some jack wagon wants to play that card. Takes all but 30 seconds to look it up. Defense squashed!

Roering
11-17-2011, 15:52
I'm still laughing at the fact that you thought going 120mph at any time was the right thing to do.

Next time just signal to let the A-**** driver know you are going to get out of his way and do just that when you get an opening.

Mayhem like Me
11-17-2011, 16:09
My take , as a driving instructor, as soon as you could safely pass the slow traffic you should have yielded right, it is the safest thing to do.

A car agressively riding your bumper to get past you will do that , what makes sense about accelerating over 100mph if you think a drunk,crazy guy is behind you, they have a gas pedal too.
If you are still upset file a complaint on the cops with their supervisors for the way they drove and take it to court, they can't violate state traffic laws unless they have lights and or sirens going so do your thing..

Your actions were wrong and you have excuses/explanations and if we are to believe your story verbatum so were their actions and the same excuses/explanations apply.

scottydl
11-17-2011, 17:23
The OP seems to be missing now.....

Bruce M
11-17-2011, 19:24
The OP seems to be missing now.....


Shocking.

Cubdriver
11-17-2011, 22:34
First off, I'm not a cop. Bad move by the OP - best bet IMO is to pull over and get the heck out of the way ASAP. Let the unknown loon go on ahead - I'd rather he be in front of me where I can keep an eye on him than behind me. Bad judgement call.

-Pat

WarCry
11-17-2011, 23:39
I never made any admission of anything, speeding or otherwise.


At this point, not knowing what this guys deal is, I just want to get away from him. I accelerate down the highway (my car has >300hp so it will move) and away from drunk/aggressive guy.

Assuming you weren't impeding the flow of traffic by going extremely slow before you 'accelerated down the highway' then you admitted to speeding.

I will see this quote and raise you one better:


#2: "Why were you speeding?"
Me: "Honestly, sir, I thought you were tailgating me and were either drunk or an aggressive driver, and wanted to get away from you"


He not only admitted it on this board, according to his own post, he admitted it on the scene to the agent/officer/trooper/whatever.

I was taught in Drivers' Ed, lo, these many moons ago, that the safest place to keep a dangerous driver is in front of you so you can see and react to whatever stupid crap s/he's going to do.

efman
11-18-2011, 02:58
just because a leo was in a unmarked vehicle and had a shirt with "agent" on the back does not mean they are a state or fed. believe or not even country sheriff offices have unmarked vehicles with plane clothes/tactically dressed officers.

RussP
11-18-2011, 07:24
The OP seems to be missing now.....That's because you never get the advice you want when you ask a cop, "How do I get out of what I admittedly did?"

Hack
11-18-2011, 08:46
That's because you never get the advice you want when you ask a cop, "How do I get out of what I admittedly did?"

:supergrin:

badlands99
11-19-2011, 00:51
The main reason they were probably right off your bumper was that they wanted you to get move over so they can pass. Also, it's very likely they were not in a position to turn on the lights, to have you mover over, without blowing their entire operation.

This is the most valuable information in this discussion. I've always been annoyed by cops who tailgate like that and once I even gave "the finger" to a cop who was flicking high-beams at me while tailgating me when I was being held back by a left lane squatter. He got a finger for each flick of his high-beams (I didn't know he was a cop until he eventually was able to pass. I'm stupid, but not THAT stupid. Usually).

I never could understand why he wouldn't just turn on blue lights if he was in such a hurry. Now I know. So thanks.

jpa
11-19-2011, 06:07
I can't believe the most important question hasn't even been asked yet!!

Was the DEA agent wearing his hat????


Wait a second, do DEA agents even have hats to wear on traffic stops?

I wonder how many jurisdictions the OP could cross doing 120mph for a few seconds. I bet it's probably close to 7...

Panzergrenadier1979
11-19-2011, 07:08
I wonder how many jurisdictions the OP could cross doing 120mph for a few seconds. I bet it's probably close to 7...

Here in PA, probably more like 15.

We also have the ablility to leave one jurisdiction, enter another one in a another county, and then 30 seconds later reenter the original jurisdiction in the original county WHILE driving in a straight line. :shocked:

eracer
11-19-2011, 07:13
Hahahahahahah...!!!!!!!:rofl:

XxMerlinxX
11-19-2011, 19:05
To the OP, if he's still even reading this...

You probably encountered SC SLED agents running drug interdiction on the interstate. If you go to court and plead guilty, you'll likely get a reduction of the fine. If you plead not guilty, I don't see you winning, and you'll have to pay the full amount. It's up to you.

Texas357
11-26-2011, 13:10
Driving a fast car like you are in a hurry, and trying to get get away from unmarked vehicles that may be following you.... No, I can't imagine why an officer might get interested you over that.


Probably they were surprised with your behavior that no warrants came back and that your whole car was stuffed with bundles of contraband.


I'd say you got off easy, thank the officers and pay it.